On the contrary, it would be reckless to wait any longer. It's usually not hard to tell by earlier than that. Sixteen is the typical age to start HRT in the US, and the earliest surgeries come a year after that, I think. It should probably be earlier, to be honest; natural puberty, especially male puberty, does a lot of things that can't be undone.

/Speaking about 90% from forum discussions here, so...

Hick: Mum looks like the witch in L4D.

I think thats her dad.

biatch better not upstage me!

dcigary: Holy Tapdancing Jeebus WTF is that NEXT to her?!?!

You know you'd stick it in her ass. Anyone who denies it is a liar, or a woman.

RemyDuron: Uh. . . 16? They gave her the operation at 16? What the fark? Unless there are some major extenuating circumstance, like the kid was a hermaphrodite and her parents chose one gender but she favored another, that seems pretty reckless and could backfire on the poor kid.

cchris_39: Agreed - and apparently they started on her on hormones at 13 to suppress the testosterone surge.

Really sick stuff.

Yes, how sick indeed. Two independent psychiatrists signed off on the fact that Kim is transsexual. How sick indeed. And what, per chance, is your medical or psychological background?

I'm going to guess none. But I'm glad you two non-experts have concurring opinions. Tell me, what do you do for a living? I'll be sure to call you for advice to whatever isn't related to that field, because I'm sure you two have the frankest and greatest advice to dispense.

You know, it's funny. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini long ago issued a fatwa permitting transsexual operations, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei confirmed this fatwa. It's long since percolated to other clerical and governmental institutions in Iran.

Does that comfort you, knowing a country that hangs 16-year-old girls by the neck from construction cranes until they're dead for the crime of farking outside marriage has more progressive view points on gender identity and transsexuality than you do?

Mmmm, delicous trap. One that I would die to have in my /b/ folder.
/Wut?

stuffy: I think thats her dad.

So you're saying that there are two men in that photo then?

/XY is XY even if you chop off the junk
//It's easier to dig a ditch than build a pole

Some women have XY chromosomes.

dcigary:



Holy Tapdancing Jeebus WTF is that NEXT to her?!?!

Savoir-Faire:
More that that, really, is I have convinced myself that women can do what they want and men cannot. I'm so constrained by the conventions of masculinity that I can't have fun or live in the moment. So much seems unattainable. I just don't understand how they manage to have so much fun.

It's probably all in my head.

Yes, it's all in your head. Don't worry, you're not missing anything. Being female is just as awful as being male.

Having met several transsexuals, both female-to-male and male-to-female, I find the ignorance and bigotry of some in this thread distrubing.

Now, it's time for the floor show! Hit it!

The article writer misspelt "he" quite a bit.

/Wearing a beak and putting feathers up my ass doesn't make me a chicken.

Just call my name... I'll be queeeeeeeeeer.

(Not me personally, because then I would be singing to Michael Jackson's 'Ill be there' also implying that I am homosexual but since I am not homosexual, I said "Not me personally".)(Also that this person is a singer, my comment also relates to the story.)( My comment says I am not homosexual and it relates to the story so what nao biatches?)

Dr. Mojo PhD:
Yes, how sick indeed. Two independent psychiatrists signed off on the fact that Kim is transsexual. How sick indeed. And what, per chance, is your medical or psychological background?

I'm going to guess none. But I'm glad you two non-experts have concurring opinions. Tell me, what do you do for a living? I'll be sure to call you for advice to whatever isn't related to that field, because I'm sure you two have the frankest and greatest advice to dispense.

You know, it's funny. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini long ago issued a fatwa permitting transsexual operations, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei confirmed this fatwa. It's long since percolated to other clerical and governmental institutions in Iran.

Does that comfort you, knowing a country that hangs 16-year-old girls by the neck from construction cranes until they're dead for the crime of farking outside marriage has more progressive view points on gender identity and transsexuality than you do?

Big buckets of THIS.

Ah, auto-tuned garbage music. Thought that was on it's way out? Honestly I'm surprised that they allowed a child to make such a life changing decision. He wasn't a hermaphrodite, so what was the excuse to give a 13 year old boy hormone therapy?

AirForceVet: Having met several transsexuals, both female-to-male and male-to-female, I find the ignorance and bigotry of some in this thread distrubing.



/Hawt like the hells that heshe will burn in

Dr. Mojo PhD: RemyDuron: Uh. . . 16? They gave her the operation at 16? What the fark? Unless there are some major extenuating circumstance, like the kid was a hermaphrodite and her parents chose one gender but she favored another, that seems pretty reckless and could backfire on the poor kid.

cchris_39: Agreed - and apparently they started on her on hormones at 13 to suppress the testosterone surge.

Really sick stuff.

Yes, how sick indeed. Two independent psychiatrists signed off on the fact that Kim is transsexual. How sick indeed. And what, per chance, is your medical or psychological background?

I'm going to guess none. But I'm glad you two non-experts have concurring opinions. Tell me, what do you do for a living? I'll be sure to call you for advice to whatever isn't related to that field, because I'm sure you two have the frankest and greatest advice to dispense.

You know, it's funny. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini long ago issued a fatwa permitting transsexual operations, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei confirmed this fatwa. It's long since percolated to other clerical and governmental institutions in Iran.

Does that comfort you, knowing a country that hangs 16-year-old girls by the neck from construction cranes until they're dead for the crime of farking outside marriage has more progressive view points on gender identity and transsexuality than you do?

Yeah I don't see what the problem is. I think it would only be sick is if someone was going through this over the age of 25. The hormone therapies won't work, and the surgeries will be very complicated. Add in the fact that after the whole procedure is done, they will still look the same as before.

Better to do it earlier where the hormones will still make a difference.

Fuggin Bizzy: heinekev: buk110: He's really cute...


Shame it's just another homosexual that wanted to be the catcher rather than the pitcher....He's a very talented popstar I'm sure

But you know what - it's a slap in the face to God the almighty. For the Bible says we are here on this earth to have children. To do this is an abomination - and he will burn in the eternal flames of hell for all time...

What a sick sick person he is

gay bash
religious overtones
intolerance

6/10, strong effort

I'd say he loses a point for going on just bit too long. 5/10.

Also Jesus can see his boner.

4/10.

\Jesus knows all sees all.
\\Glad not to be Jesus.

featherspy: I looked up her music and it's auto-tuned all to hell. Have to wait for her second single, but for now I'm giving her a thumbs down despite how cute she is.

I really hope this auto-tune garbage goes away soon.

Link for anyone who wants to listen.

Her song is meh. Her only draw will be that she was a dude. She'll be on big brother UK in 2 years.

buk110: But you know what - it's a slap in the face to God the almighty. For the Bible says we are here on this earth to have children. To do this is an abomination - and he will burn in the eternal flames of hell for all time...


I AM A FALSE PROPHET AND GOD IS A SUPERSTITION (new window)

Squidgilum: RemyDuron: Uh. . . 16? They gave her the operation at 16? What the fark? Unless there are some major extenuating circumstance, like the kid was a hermaphrodite and her parents chose one gender but she favored another, that seems pretty reckless and could backfire on the poor kid.

Then she'll switch back. No big deal. And if he feels he's made a mistake, he'll switch back again. In fact, he/she could make it a part of the show, like Cher changing clothes constantly.

It doesn't really work that way.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: /Wearing a beak and putting feathers up my ass doesn't make me a chicken.

Ironic

hedwig is the angry gay w/ a short inch?

Dr. Mojo PhD: RemyDuron: Uh. . . 16? They gave her the operation at 16? What the fark? Unless there are some major extenuating circumstance, like the kid was a hermaphrodite and her parents chose one gender but she favored another, that seems pretty reckless and could backfire on the poor kid.

cchris_39: Agreed - and apparently they started on her on hormones at 13 to suppress the testosterone surge.

Really sick stuff.

Yes, how sick indeed. Two independent psychiatrists signed off on the fact that Kim is transsexual. How sick indeed. And what, per chance, is your medical or psychological background?

I'm going to guess none. But I'm glad you two non-experts have concurring opinions. Tell me, what do you do for a living? I'll be sure to call you for advice to whatever isn't related to that field, because I'm sure you two have the frankest and greatest advice to dispense.

You know, it's funny. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini long ago issued a fatwa permitting transsexual operations, and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei confirmed this fatwa. It's long since percolated to other clerical and governmental institutions in Iran.

Does that comfort you, knowing a country that hangs 16-year-old girls by the neck from construction cranes until they're dead for the crime of farking outside marriage has more progressive view points on gender identity and transsexuality than you do?

16. I have no problem with sex changes, but I think that is too young. Too much potential for something to change. There's a reason it's generally harder to diagnose young people with certain psychological conditions.

Bad troll, bad buk110.

Silly of you to throw the Bible at me. I live in the Bible Belt and dismiss local religious fiends by quoting Scripture with the best of them.

My personal favorite is reminding them Jefferson Davis, other Confederate leaders, and Southern politicians used to quote Scripture to justify slavery. They get all bothered with that one.

buk110: stuffy: I think thats her dad.

So you're saying that there are two men in that photo then?

/XY is XY even if you chop off the junk
//It's easier to dig a ditch than build a pole

Sex is in your pants, and gender is in your head. Sometimes they don't align up the way nature wants it to, for whatever reason, it just happens.

Tatsuma!
Uh... I mean
Whyteraven74!

coxinha: Yes, it's all in your head. Don't worry, you're not missing anything. Being female is just as awful as being male.

How you doin?

Savoir-Faire: You know, if I could change, I would. It seems to me that the ladies really have it, at least while they're young. They're just so crushingly beautiful, I can't comprehend it. I'd have to be attractive though.

More that that, really, is I have convinced myself that women can do what they want and men cannot. I'm so constrained by the conventions of masculinity that I can't have fun or live in the moment. So much seems unattainable. I just don't understand how they manage to have so much fun.

It's probably all in my head.

It's all in your head. I'm a girl who greatly prefers the company and friendship of men. Women are petty and cruel. You can't just dress however you want to around women or else you'll be the butt of all their jokes and you'll be outcast and ostracized permanently. You can't do anything different or step outside the lines. You can't laugh too loud or sit comfortably or play rough or have any fun.

And in my waning years, when the lines start to show on my face and my breasts begin to succumb to gravity (as they inevitably will), I'll be that hideous old woman down the street that nobody wants to even visit, whereas my husband can get fat, wrinkled, and crotchety, and everyone will still think he's pretty cool. Aging is harder on women than it will ever be for men.

cchris_39: RemyDuron: Uh. . . 16? They gave her the operation at 16? What the fark? Unless there are some major extenuating circumstance, like the kid was a hermaphrodite and her parents chose one gender but she favored another, that seems pretty reckless and could backfire on the poor kid.

Agreed - and apparently they started on her on hormones at 13 to suppress the testosterone surge.

Really sick stuff.

Really sick stuff? I live in southeastern Florida, the official farking habitat of surgically-created "really sick stuff."

I have seen women whose faces are pulled so taut, it looks like you could flip their skulls back to dispense Pez.

I have seen breast enhancements so grossly overdone, you'd think someone stuck Quasimodo's head on backwards.

I have seen lips shaped like mating minnows -- traditionally, this is the only mobile feature left in a botoxed death mask.

It's grotesque. It's disgusting.

It's a socially accepted practice. Hell, in South Florida, it's freaking normal.

...And you want to call this sick? A kid who has identified as a female since age two has a sex change operation and becomes a lovely young lady?

Wow. Just...Wow.

cchris_39: Agreed - and apparently they started on her on hormones at 13 to suppress the testosterone surge.

Really sick stuff awesome idea.

FTFM.

RemyDuron:
It doesn't really work that way.

It might... in Germany.

Savoir-Faire: You know, if I could change, I would. It seems to me that the ladies really have it, at least while they're young. They're just so crushingly beautiful, I can't comprehend it. I'd have to be attractive though.

More that that, really, is I have convinced myself that women can do what they want and men cannot. I'm so constrained by the conventions of masculinity that I can't have fun or live in the moment. So much seems unattainable. I just don't understand how they manage to have so much fun.

It's probably all in my head.

Eh. One cage for another, different but equally elaborate and constraining. I happen to fit better into the one I chose than the one I was given, but oooh you'd better be sure you can handle the ride before you switch.

/srsly, what if the comments in this thread were about you?
//still wanna?

It doesn't disturb me that she made the change at her age, but it really creeps me out that the adults in her life are allowing it to be a selling point in her career. It's exploitative to cash in on the sexuality of children. Tatu was bad but this is much worse.

"I am very proud of what she has achieved, how she has managed to get there and how she sticks to her dreams no matter how hard and painful they are to follow.

"We saw Kim as a girl - but not as a problem."

Gotta say, I got a little choked up, thinking of all the kids who haven't heard this message from their parents. I'm happy that Kim is able to walk the road she feels she is meant to be on.

Meh.

So, s/he had a tallywhacker once?

Big farking deal.

Get over it.

Where's the news in this? Pop stars swap sex for fame every damn day.

--reads article--

Oh. Well then. That's completely different.

Never mind.

I'm trying to think of things that I didn't change my mind about somewhere along the line between the ages of 2 and 13. So far, a fondness for french fries and feeling like a girl are the only things coming to mind. And you know what? I still like french fries and feel female at the age of 35. If this girl consistently said she was a girl from the ages of 2 to 13, I think they made the right call in starting her treatment. I really don't see her suddenly missing her penis.

Savoir-Faire:
You know, if I could change, I would. It seems to me that the ladies really have it, at least while they're young. They're just so crushingly beautiful, I can't comprehend it. I'd have to be attractive though.

More that that, really, is I have convinced myself that women can do what they want and men cannot. I'm so constrained by the conventions of masculinity that I can't have fun or live in the moment. So much seems unattainable. I just don't understand how they manage to have so much fun.

It's probably all in my head.

Hahaha. Wow. You've watched too many Lifetime movies.
The capriciousness of a person is quite often linked to stupidity or ignorance in my opinion.
"Beauty" doesn't explore the stars or map the human genome. It doesn't feed the poor or cure diseases.

Anyway, dung beetles probably think other dung beetles are the most attractive things on the planet. Why place so much value in something of so little value?

He used be named Tim you say? I really can't see that...well, maybe around the nose...

morgantx: Savoir-Faire: You know, if I could change, I would. It seems to me that the ladies really have it, at least while they're young. They're just so crushingly beautiful, I can't comprehend it. I'd have to be attractive though.

More that that, really, is I have convinced myself that women can do what they want and men cannot. I'm so constrained by the conventions of masculinity that I can't have fun or live in the moment. So much seems unattainable. I just don't understand how they manage to have so much fun.

It's probably all in my head.

It's all in your head. I'm a girl who greatly prefers the company and friendship of men. Women are petty and cruel. You can't just dress however you want to around women or else you'll be the butt of all their jokes and you'll be outcast and ostracized permanently. You can't do anything different or step outside the lines. You can't laugh too loud or sit comfortably or play rough or have any fun.

And in my waning years, when the lines start to show on my face and my breasts begin to succumb to gravity (as they inevitably will), I'll be that hideous old woman down the street that nobody wants to even visit, whereas my husband can get fat, wrinkled, and crotchety, and everyone will still think he's pretty cool. Aging is harder on women than it will ever be for men.

All women aren't like that, though. There are plenty of tomboys and tomgeeks out there that don't act like that at all. Maybe you should stop accepting women who act like that because you think it is 'normal' and 'all' women do it, and try to make better female friends.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have guy friends. But as a woman, having such a low opinion of women to the point that you avoid them will only reflect itself in your self esteem.

There are plenty of old women who have active social lives and people that love visiting them. If you see yourself as having a future of abandonment while your husband has all the fun, I think the issue is yours.

MEET the latest pop sensation. At 16 years old, with blonde good looks and a wholesome appeal, Kim Petras is set to be a superstar.

But this is no ordinary girl - Kim was actually born TIM.

So people who have had gender reassignment surgeries can't be wholesome? They are all sex-crazed maniacs? Got it.

RemyDuron: 16. I have no problem with sex changes, but I think that is too young. Too much potential for something to change. There's a reason it's generally harder to diagnose young people with certain psychological conditions.


And yet transsexuality is not one of those conditions. Transsexuals universally identify as the opposite gender from day 1. This isn't a mere whim. Transsexuality isn't homosexuality, it's not about attraction, it's about identity. This isn't college experimentation or two lipstick lesbians making out to get you hard. It's not hermaphrodism.

The fact of the matter is, any and all transsexuals will identify as the opposite physical gender. There's not even a counter-argument there -- barring actual mental illness, a person doesn't just wake up and say they're a woman when they were born with testes and a penis. And, of course, that's precisely why psychiatrists and physicians administer a battery of tests to ensure that the person actually is transgendered and not mentally ill.

The surgery and procedures should be performed as early as possible, especially for the health of the transsexual. Fighting the body's natural hormones isn't as healthy as redirecting those hormones, and the primary and secondary sex characteristics forming the adult body are difficult to reverse; for the transsexual's mental health and stability its better to nip that in the bud than it is to permit a mixing of sex characteristics or to allow the sex characteristics to develop fully. It also requires less surgery to do so.

As for the age of the surgery, what's the problem? Post-natal infants undergo procedures if they're considered life-saving. Children and teens undergo life saving procedures. Would you object to a radical nephrectomy if Kim had metastatic renal carcinoma? Is she too young for that, too? Or does only physical health matter?

Yeah, forget the mental strain it will put on her. Forget suicidal ideations, depression, bullying, persecution. Forget anxiety, mood swings, and a general inability to fit in. Forget the fact that attracting a mate -- one of the primary biological imperatives -- becomes nigh impossible because transsexual men do not desire homosexual men or heterosexual woman. Forget all that mental and consequently, according to massive amounts of research, physical strain it will put on her even if she does consider suicide. The relatively harmless procedure that may save her life and give a fully realised sovereign moral agent piece of mind and a place in the world is wrong because she's 16 and not 18, a total whopping difference of a maximum of 731 days if the transsexual's birthday between those ages happens to fall on a leap year.

After all, so much can change in 731 days. A person who grows up a girl, identifies as a girl since as far back as they can remember self-identification, for 16 years, is going to change her mind in the span of a little more than 100 weeks.

She's only been alive for 5844 days (again accounting for leap years), identifying as a woman even before the onset of those horribly confusing puberty symptoms we all went through. You know, all those wet dreams, breaking voices, awkward hair growth and the sudden and sporadic desire for a vagina. I mean, when you take that into account, she really should wait till she's 18, right?

I'm sure the additional 11.1% of her lifespan she has to reflect on why she's wanted to be a woman her entire life will suddenly make her wipe her brow and go "phew, I'm glad I waited all these years to come to the exact same condition, only will now have to undergo corrective cosmetic surgery to alter all these changes to my body which would not have happened to me if I'd just gotten the operation two years ago. The additional invasive medical procedures, expenses, recovery time, mental strain and fatigue, persecution, loneliness, and depression sure were worth it to assure my anonymous internet critics that I really do want to be a woman, because it really does sort of seem like deciding what you should major in in college -- with us teenagers it might change any moment!"

clusterfrak: Would hit it with or without the peener.

That's gross. Do you know what guys end up with when they get a sex change? A smelly, bacteria breeding, dry cavity. You want to put your d*ck into that? I'd rather choke on my own vomit.

Fap...wha?? (blink) Ahh, fark it..Fap fap fap