Quit taxing our industries so hard that they take their jobs over seas. Or start taxing the product brought here so that companies can be competitive. My city was once booming. Three years later, 20,000 of our jobs were in China. No, the void was never filled, but I find it funny because the whole country is experiencing what my city went through around 13/14 years ago. Make it fair trade not free trade, problem solved. You wouldn't have to throw one single dime at it much less a trillion dollars that was printed out of thin air. If you want real change quit voting for the same ol two burned out parties.

Andyr2120: Nemo's Brother: Obama has either gone full retard, or he is a brilliant and wants American to fall.

I've been reading Fark for years, and I have been a TF member for the last 2-3 years. This is the first dipshiat I've ever added to my ignore list.

You will be missed.

Another year or 3 to suck up, dudes.

Deregulate the banks and the economy tanks. And the conservative answer is more deregulation?

Seriously? Seriously?

thermodie: Quit taxing our industries so hard that they take their jobs over seas

Taxes are just the excuse offered up, it in reality has little if anything to ever do with it.

YodaTuna: Deregulate the banks and the economy tanks. And the conservative answer is more deregulation?

I would love to see some read Adam Smith, the father of the idea of a self-regulating free market. Their heads would explode when they see what Smith thought.

Gawdzila: Disagree.
One of our most prosperous periods was immediately after WWII.
The primary reason for this was the number of jobs and companies that were created during wartime industry.

War can be said to be something like a huge social program; the government wants something done (war) and spends lots of money it may or may not have in order to do it. Building tanks, planes, guns, whatever, the government wants it, they hand out money for it, somebody finds a way to capitalize and build it, creating long-term jobs and revenue in the process.

I could not disagree with your assessment more, and frankly this kind of grossly oversimplified and misguided explanation seems juvenile from an economics standpoint.

Please explain how hiring somebody to build an instrument of war (which presumably sinks the the bottom of the ocean or sees 10 years of service and then rusts in a lot somewhere) makes the country better off economically. Be specific as to whose money goes where, how, why, and what tangible economic benefit it gives.

This stimulus package aims to do the same thing, but instead of guns and bombs, we start building a new energy infrastructure; wind power, solar technology, carbon-capture, and more. In the process we stop spending hundreds of billions buying oil off the market, energy becomes cheaper and cleaner, and the long-term jobs associated with building and maintaining the infrastructure are created.

A few things here. First, of course it is better to spend money on energy infrastructure than bombs, but that doesn't prove that money should be spent on energy infrastructure, it just proves that money should not be spent on bombs. Second, wind and solar power a total waste of time and resources and are grossly inefficient, unsalvageably so. They are just feel-good do-nothing projects that enrich a select few giant corporations. Nuclear is the future. It's efficient, safe, and clean. There is no reason to invest in anything else right now. The argument that building infrastructure will create jobs to maintain that infrastructure is just more broken window fallacy.

Yet people seem to think this is a terrible, irresponsible idea. Why? Is it because the end product is useful? Apparently the government spending money to destroy things is fine, but god help us if we spend money to do something constructive.

There is essentially nothing the government does well. It is debatable as to whether it is necessary to provide things such as roads, but even that it makes a horrible mess of. Interventionism into the market is inefficient and usually does more damage than good. If something needs to be done, people will pay to have it done.

I thought trolling was against the FArQ? If so, why don't these pieces of shiat do something about that Nemo farkwad?

clgrin: That's the point though. You're correct, the slave economy was a money loser on the whole and had been for some time. Yet slavery persisted and was alleviated, for better or worse, through government action. No large scale attempt was made inside the community to buy the slaves out, as was the case in Britain. Douglas (a great man to be sure) would have been a fool not the see an outmoded economy drifting along of its own inertia and the participation of those involved in it. Such economies that existed in other places in the world were either ended by outside (gov't) intervention or by slave revolts... and I know Douglas was not a proponent of an uprising.

And yet every other country in the Western world managed to end slavery through economic/social means. Do you really think we'd still have slavery today without the atrocious, brutal government-caused civil war? Really?

Clearly the answer is to give me a billion dollars.

clgrin: Why do people keep saying he's stimulus happy... goddammitsomuch. I'll say this nice and big with a damn link:
Obama dismissed the idea of a second stimulus
Link (new window)

That's the funny thing about conservative Obama memes:
their need to believe them far outdistances the meme's existence in reality.

Mr. Right: Whether an administration tries to manage the economy or not is not the only factor in economic prosperity or the lack thereof. But it is true that every government, globally, that has tried to manage the economy has failed or kept its populace impoverished. When the economy is free and people are left to pursue their own interests and the government serves to protect their property rights instead of trample them, the economy succeeds.

Before you go making generalizations about "every government that has tried managing their economy has failed", you're going to need to define "managing the economy". Where is the line drawn between well-thought-out regulation and too much regulation? There has to be one, right? Or maybe the way you think of it as "well, whenever an economy is doing well, it's because of well-thought-out regulation. Whenever it's doing poorly, it must be a result of too much 'managing' of the economy that's going on". And the shoehorning begins.

When your leftist professors pointed out all of the little factors that contributed to the Depression that were not directly the result of government meddling, they were desperately trying to make the case that government meddling isn't bad. It is. Always. Well-thought out regulations that follow the basic premises of "thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not covet" are needed, just as we have laws against assault and murder. But trying to direct the economy will always fail. Which gets back to my original point. Obama will fail.

You make assumptions that I had "leftist professors". In fact, you're making assumptions that I had professors at all. What a nice little straw man you're constructing there! So basically, what I'm hearing here is that the Dust Bowl is overstated as a contributing factor to the Depression, as well as the lack of regulation in the stock market that created the margin buying disasters.

As long as we're making straw men here, I'll do a little of my own. I'm assuming that your favorite period of American history is the Gilded Age? Seems like the perfect scenario for you.

WhyteRaven74: pascoffee: I don't understand how dumping money into government jobs.

Fear is no excuse for not knowing what's going on.
I know whats going on.government is fixing it rads bridges.hell the AFbase I work at just got 5.2 million of them dollars for it upkeep.
thats what I mean by just a few will make money on the projects.
It just sustains those families.
Will mom and pop store is closing its doors because they are putting there money to those business.

I have talked to some of the contracers. they are trying to rebuild all the money they lost in stocks.401 k. they aren't spending their money either.

I think I should get it over with and replace him with myself so we can legalize all drugs, have gays farking each other in the streets while destroying the sacrament of marriage, abolish all religion, and mandatory abortions to support the massive amounts of baby-killing stem cell research I will fund.

Just imagine the possibilities! I think I'll run on that ticket in 2012.

WhyteRaven74: Mr. Right: Obama will fail.

And it just makes you giggle with glee a the thought he will.

Wrong. Obama's failure will reverbrate throughout the world. His failure will cause untold suffering not only here in the U.S. but globally. There is absolutely no glee in that.

On the other hand, if you, as a rabid Obama supporter, lose your job, exhaust all your benefits, lose your home and then get desperately ill and Obama's health czar decides you're ineligible for treatment because it costs more than you're worth and you end up laying on a cot in a homeless shelter, then I'll giggle. A little.

Mr. Right: lose your job, exhaust all your benefits, lose your home and then get desperately ill and Obama's health czar decides you're ineligible for treatment because it costs more than you're worth and you end up laying on a cot in a homeless shelter, then I'll giggle. A little.

And if you're killed by a moronic right-wing psychopath who decides to shoot some church, office building, or store up because he finally listened to enough right-wing radio to make him snap, I'll giggle a little, too.

Obama admitted that he misunderestemated the economy despite his Promises that if we ( and when I say " we" I mean the 1/2 of the country that pays most of the taxes but didn't vote for him ) these trillions plus interest on a " stimulus " plan unemployment wouldn't go over 8%..

As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume that he hasn't misunderestemated the cost of his healthcare plan or the huge money you will pay in energy bills if his Global Warming plan goes into affect?

" Hope and Change " really means " after all of his useless spending all I have left is Change and I Hope he doesn't take that from me too.."


/but hey at least we're protecting turtles, toads and rats

Mr. Right: His failure will cause untold suffering not only here in the U.S. but globally. There is absolutely no glee in that.

I love how you are so certain he will fail. After you accuse people of flawed learning.

Obama's health czar decides you're ineligible for treatment because it costs more than you're worth and you end up laying on a cot in a homeless shelter, then I'll giggle

Yeah cause health care works that way anywhere in the industrialized world *facepalm* also I don't own a home, never had any interest in that really. No need for a house, and condos aren't all that great. I mean if I find myself with enough money to buy something outright without a mortgage, I might do that. Maybe.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: clgrin: That's the point though. You're correct, the slave economy was a money loser on the whole and had been for some time. Yet slavery persisted and was alleviated, for better or worse, through government action. No large scale attempt was made inside the community to buy the slaves out, as was the case in Britain. Douglas (a great man to be sure) would have been a fool not the see an outmoded economy drifting along of its own inertia and the participation of those involved in it. Such economies that existed in other places in the world were either ended by outside (gov't) intervention or by slave revolts... and I know Douglas was not a proponent of an uprising.

And yet every other country in the Western world managed to end slavery through economic/social means. Do you really think we'd still have slavery today without the atrocious, brutal government-caused civil war? Really?

Every other country? Really? Haiti? The Lesser Antilles? Pretty much the entirety of the South America got rid of slavery only after massive anti-colonial wars of independence... and even then not immediately. Bolivar only cared about the imported slaves... indigenous slaves were OK by. him. Most of these glorious Western countries that outlawed slavery at home had no practicing it in their colonies. The French? The Dutch? Dear God, the Belgians man? All of these abuses were only stopped via internal revolt or an external invasion. About the only country that actually did it the way you pretend they all did was Britain, (which is to their credit) and that was only because they didn't have that many in the first place.

libbynomore2:

/but hey at least we're protecting turtles, toads and rats

You forgot unicorns.

libbynomore2: As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume

Here's a fun bit of info, almost no one anywhere any either side of the aisle thought the economy was as bad as it has turned out. And how is Obama to blame for the effects of actions that occurred before he was in office exactly?

libbynomore2: Obama admitted that he misunderestemated the economy despite his Promises that if we ( and when I say " we" I mean the 1/2 of the country that pays most of the taxes but didn't vote for him ) these trillions plus interest on a " stimulus " plan unemployment wouldn't go over 8%..

As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume that he hasn't misunderestemated the cost of his healthcare plan or the huge money you will pay in energy bills if his Global Warming plan goes into affect?

My favorite part of your uneducated rant is how you used a word that Bush made up... twice.

Just got my quarterly statement from my investments. Went up by 1/6. I'm placated for the time being.

Am I hearing people in this thread telling me to wait for the good economy to "trickle down". It wont happen overnight.

HAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA

Good one.

joethebastard: libbynomore2: Obama admitted that he misunderestemated the economy despite his Promises that if we ( and when I say " we" I mean the 1/2 of the country that pays most of the taxes but didn't vote for him ) these trillions plus interest on a " stimulus " plan unemployment wouldn't go over 8%..

As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume that he hasn't misunderestemated the cost of his healthcare plan or the huge money you will pay in energy bills if his Global Warming plan goes into affect?

My favorite part of your uneducated rant is how you used a word that Bush made up... twice.

I LOL'd

Mr. Right: WhyteRaven74: Mr. Right: Obama will fail.

And it just makes you giggle with glee a the thought he will.

Wrong. Obama's failure will reverbrate throughout the world. His failure will cause untold suffering not only here in the U.S. but globally. There is absolutely no glee in that.

On the other hand, if you, as a rabid Obama supporter, lose your job, exhaust all your benefits, lose your home and then get desperately ill and Obama's health czar decides you're ineligible for treatment because it costs more than you're worth and you end up laying on a cot in a homeless shelter, then I'll giggle. A little.

There's a phrase for morans like Mr. Right: witless contrarian. Opposes everything, right or wrong, for the sake of acquiring/reacquiring political power and/or trying to prove a particular ideology.

It also happens to describe most of the modern-day Republican Party, which is why they're so far in the crapper they won't see daylight for decades.

clgrin: Ah yes,,, a currency flood. That would explain the massive inflation we're having... oh wait, we're deflating/neutral

If someone eats a high carb diet, but exercises a lot, they don't gain weight. If they just eat a high carb diet, they will get fat.

The deflationary pressures are temporary. Once they run their course, get ready to hear your ears pop. Though we are already seeing inflation. I see it manifesting locally in food prices.

Not to mention the Core CPI is horrifically manipulated. Just look at how it is calculated and how it is published in the media.

What do you trust more? The weatherman who says the sun is shining or the view out your window that shows it is raining. The government has a strong vested interest in under reporting inflation.

WhyteRaven74: libbynomore2: As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume

Here's a fun bit of info, almost no one anywhere any either side of the aisle thought the economy was as bad as it has turned out. And how is Obama to blame for the effects of actions that occurred before he was in office exactly?

On that same note. I didn't realize how out of touch congress was until I heard Hilary Cliton not know what Teeter is.It was as bad as knowing the internet were tubes

Stimulus II: Double Down or All In?

Our governemnt failed us when they allowed this crap to start back in the Clinton days, Bush failed us when he made it worse, our government failed us again when they let Bush make it worse, the voters failed us when they elected Obama. The only one who hasn't failed us is Obama since there is no way in hell he could do anything about it anyway. Reminds me of a song "Put another bankroll on the fire, I'll bribe you with some bacon and some beans, I will give billions to all the rich folks, While you poor folks can just patch those old blue jeans..."..or something like that.

WhyteRaven74 [TotalFark] Quote 2009-07-12 05:17:19 PM
libbynomore2: As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume

Here's a fun bit of info, almost no one anywhere any either side of the aisle thought the economy was as bad as it has turned out. And how is Obama to blame for the effects of actions that occurred before he was in office exactly?


No, actually during the campaign, Obama himself said our economy was the worst since the great depression.........maybe so, maybe not, but he claimed it was that bad and made decisions based on his belief ( unless he was lying of course )........the fact is, his left wing Big Government " fix " was totally wrong........and yet all he can do and say is what YOU say " hey, it's someone elses fault "

such pussies you people are....

Take responsibility for your actions for once!


IF he was this wrong about how to fix the economy, he certainly cannot be trusted to fix health care or energy policy......dude knows as little about those issues as he does about economic issues and we've seen his FAIL there already.

How about we give Obama the same amount of time to fix the economy that you all gave Bush to "fix" Iraq. Sound fair

Klingon Penis: Mr. Right: WhyteRaven74: Mr. Right: Obama will fail.

And it just makes you giggle with glee a the thought he will.

Wrong. Obama's failure will reverbrate throughout the world. His failure will cause untold suffering not only here in the U.S. but globally. There is absolutely no glee in that.

On the other hand, if you, as a rabid Obama supporter, lose your job, exhaust all your benefits, lose your home and then get desperately ill and Obama's health czar decides you're ineligible for treatment because it costs more than you're worth and you end up laying on a cot in a homeless shelter, then I'll giggle. A little.

There's a phrase for morans like Mr. Right: witless contrarian. Opposes everything, right or wrong, for the sake of acquiring/reacquiring political power and/or trying to prove a particular ideology.

It also happens to describe most of the modern-day Republican Party, which is why they're so far in the crapper they won't see daylight for decades.

I think it can only get worse for them. Once the cognitive dissonance level reaches critical, the GOP will blow up. Hopefully, a fringe party will form that everyone can laugh at equally, and we'll all be better off for it.

"Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class." -- Al Capone

pascoffee: WhyteRaven74: libbynomore2: As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume

Here's a fun bit of info, almost no one anywhere any either side of the aisle thought the economy was as bad as it has turned out. And how is Obama to blame for the effects of actions that occurred before he was in office exactly?

On that same note. I didn't realize how out of touch congress was until I heard Hilary Cliton not know what Teeter is.It was as bad as knowing the internet were tubes
TWEETER

drinkhomebrew Quote 2009-07-12 05:22:16 PM
joethebastard: libbynomore2: Obama admitted that he misunderestemated the economy despite his Promises that if we ( and when I say " we" I mean the 1/2 of the country that pays most of the taxes but didn't vote for him ) these trillions plus interest on a " stimulus " plan unemployment wouldn't go over 8%..

As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume that he hasn't misunderestemated the cost of his healthcare plan or the huge money you will pay in energy bills if his Global Warming plan goes into affect?

My favorite part of your uneducated rant is how you used a word that Bush made up... twice.


Wow, you're really dumb......Bush never said....." misunderestimated "...... it was a word " made up " by Will Ferrell on SNL

dumbass....


Let me guess.....Obama voter right?

His plan worked.

We didn't have a farking meltdown during the swaps panic. Yet.

James F. Campbell: I thought trolling was against the FArQ? If so, why don't these pieces of shiat do something about that Nemo farkwad?

Because disagreeing with your fragile little views isn't trolling. Name-calling may be though.

libbynomore2: Wow, you're really dumb......Bush never said....." misunderestimated "...... it was a word " made up " by Will Ferrell on SNL

I know that your opinion isn't swayed by actual facts, but I'm posting this anyway for comedic effect.

Let me guess.....Obama voter right?

I'm educated and pay my taxes; you figure it out.

Nemo's Brother: Obama has either gone full retard, or he is a brilliant and wants American to fall.

I chose B)

WhyteRaven74: libbynomore2: As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume

Here's a fun bit of info, almost no one anywhere any either side of the aisle thought the economy was as bad as it has turned out. And how is Obama to blame for the effects of actions that occurred before he was in office exactly?

Real simple, he ran on a platform of the criminalization of profit and the redistribution of wealth. Once it was obvious that the American electorate was buying this crap, the institutional investors saw the writing on the wall and bailed out of the U.S. debt and equity markets. The banks and insurance companies crashed immediately, followed by big manufacturing.

Watch the markets tumble in late 2007 as Barry O becomes the presumptive nominee. We lost half the value of the DJIA and it never recovered. The big market investors live or die on predicting the future of the American economy. Once Barry proclaimed its death sentence with this rehash of Robert Mugabe's failed economic policies, they got out and got out fast.

Your little socialist president isn't to blame, as much as the American idiots who supported his nonsense.

Nemo's Brother: Because disagreeing with your fragile little views isn't trolling. Name-calling may be though.

If it is, then you should have been banned months ago, you vile, pathetic excuse for a human being:

Nemo's Brother: What is the use of being on a large forum when you so easily offended by anything that Keith Olbermann doesn't agree with? Such thin-skinned pussies you all are. DIAF for the good of America, please.

Is Fark really so desperate for pagehits?

libbynomore2:
drinkhomebrew Quote 2009-07-12 05:22:16 PM
joethebastard: libbynomore2: Obama admitted that he misunderestemated the economy despite his Promises that if we ( and when I say " we" I mean the 1/2 of the country that pays most of the taxes but didn't vote for him ) these trillions plus interest on a " stimulus " plan unemployment wouldn't go over 8%..

As we head to 10% and see 11% soon to come how the hell can ANYONE assume that he hasn't misunderestemated the cost of his healthcare plan or the huge money you will pay in energy bills if his Global Warming plan goes into affect?

My favorite part of your uneducated rant is how you used a word that Bush made up... twice.


Wow, you're really dumb......Bush never said....." misunderestimated "...... it was a word " made up " by Will Ferrell on SNL

dumbass....


Let me guess.....Obama voter right?


For the record:

"They misunderestimated me." - George W. Bush, Bentonville, Ark., November 6, 2000

Nemo's Brother: James F. Campbell: I thought trolling was against the FArQ? If so, why don't these pieces of shiat do something about that Nemo farkwad?

Because disagreeing with your fragile little views isn't trolling. Name-calling may be though.

Nemo has a point, James: it's only trolling if they're pretending to be stupid.

Andyr2120: Nemo's Brother: Obama has either gone full retard, or he is a brilliant and wants American to fall.

I've been reading Fark for years, and I have been a TF member for the last 2-3 years. This is the first dipshiat I've ever added to my ignore list.

Yea, keep to only those who think like you. DEATH TO OPPOSING VIEWS!

libbynomore2: Wow, you're really dumb......Bush never said....." misunderestimated "...... it was a word " made up " by Will Ferrell on SNL

No, "Strategery" is the word made up by Will Ferrell.

"They misunderestimated me," - G.W. Bush Nov 6, 2000, Bentonville, Arkansas, in response to peoples' surprise that he had beaten out John McCain for the nomination

From Time magazine.

Obama dismissed the idea of a second stimulus

He also was going to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell, close Gitmo, give the Gitmo internees US trials, stop using signing statements, post Bills on the Internet so they can be seen by the public before he signed them and so on and so forth... none of which has happened.

He's a nice guy, but an empty suit.

To his credit, The Obamessiah has realized that the anti-terror machinery/policies Bush-Cheney put into place aren't so bad after all. He's like Clinton and both Bushes. Just wanted to be president. Doesn't have any real goals/plan. Reagan had goals.

Bush I was a caretaker, and reacted very professionally when Gulf war I happened. We were lucky to have him at the time.

Clinton had no real plans, just wanted to be prez. The republican congress keep him under control, and he had to be dragged kicking/screaming into doing something about Bosnia.

Bush II had no real plans, other than to be "The Education President", whatever that was. At least Bush II stepped up and got busy after 9/11.

I am a college grant proposal writer so this stimulus money has has had a direct impact on my job at school, both as it's filtered down through the feds and the state. From where I sit it seems like the equivalent of flying over in a helicopter and throwing money out. Some of the people who pick the money up are going to spend it wisely and on necessaries, and some are going to squander it and come whining for more when it's gone. In my state, there seems to have been several large block grants made to various entities. These entities are now figuring out, rather haphazardly, how to spend the money. We were just given a $300,000 grant by our local workforce investment board. We asked the funder when we got the grant, how they would like us to report results back to them, they said they didn't know. And if you look at the funding document, sure enough, under "reporting," it says, in so many words, we haven't read the bill yet, we don't
what requirements there are, if any, so we'll get back to you. It's the first time I've seen the phrase "unknown at this time" in a government funding document regarding accountability. These people aren't going to check to see if we did what we said we would. We are, but no one's really checking. And it all has to be spent by mid-August. We had 6 weeks to spend the money. It's not as easy as you might think to spend that kind of money without going to jail. It's all very rushed, mostly very half-assed, and much of it is of questionable use. The emphasis is on "green" jobs almost to the exclusion of all else, even though this is not a high-growth sector in my area right now. Thus, the people we are training with all this money...still won't have jobs when they're done. Most of the green stuff is mandated, so there's no choice to use the money to bolster the workforce in whatever sector is hiring locally. There's the opportunity for great good to be done...but it's like the program shot itself in the foot right off the bat. Some people will end up being helped by this, which is good, but there's not nearly enough bang for the buck here, at least from the experiences I've had with it so far.

fark. You people drink a lot of kool-aid.