WhyteRaven74: shotglasss: Take a look at who was running Congress the last two years of Bush's term. That's when the economy went bad.

Yeah because the actions of various institutions like Lehman Brothers, Bank of America etc had nothing at all to do with making a mess of the economy.

GaryPDX: let's keep porking trillions upon trillions into the vortex and taking over private industries.

Funny you never say a bad word about those industries farking over countless people and then refusing to own up to their own stupidity.

dude, don't start talking about shiat you don't understand...

The United States is heading towards socialism, for good or bad, and it doesn't matter which party is in power. Government, like any coorperation, acts kind of like a living creature in that it seeks to live, grow, and protect itself from external threats. Maybe Republicans are taking us towards greater 'collectivism' slower and more gradually than Democrats, but they sure as hell aren't moving in the other direction. I don't know how it's all going to work out, whether things 20 years from now will be better or worse than they are now.

So, if you agree with me on this, how about we stop with the vitriolic hate in political threads. We get along pretty well when the article is about Paris Hilton or the Large Hadron Collider. Those threads are fun and snarky, and nobody threatens to castrate anyone, it's all just rapier wit and astute observations. But bring politics into it, and we're at each other't throats, even though it doesn't make a hill of beans difference who's in the White House, or who controls congress

/copypasted from another thread, so no you aren't having day-ja-view

/did someone bring butter?

mattyc: dude, don't start talking about shiat you don't understand...

oh I understand it just fine, people like Gary? Not so much.

A top tax rate of 70-90% sure didn't hurt economic growth in the postwar 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and part of the 80's. There's no reason why it would hurt economic growth today.

Money is a lot more mobile these days. Soak the rich, and they'll pull up stakes and move their business interests to China, S. Korea, South America, etc. The rich stayed here after WWII because their weren't a lot of alternatives.

shotglasss: Dr. Rosenrosen: Geez, it took Bush 8 years to wreck things this bad, and he was the master at driving businesses/organizations into the ground! Give Obama at least a year to clean things up.

Take a look at who was running Congress the last two years of Bush's term. That's when the economy went bad.

Say thank you to Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of that cabal of criminals.

B B B B But Bush!!!

Still waiting on Pelosi's 100 days of change.

\goes well with Obama's change that I can believe in.
\\I have to wonder if he meant that the only change you can believe in is the change you'll have left in your pocket after he's done raping the treasury.

mark12A: The rich stayed here after WWII because their weren't a lot of alternatives.

Also very few actually paid the top rates. They were almost to the point of being purely symbolic.

LOL...I just want you people for a minute who blame Republicans and Fox news to ask yourself..DO you actually listen,research,and investigate what CNN and Democrats are telling you. Or do you just go with it and blame the other side all the time. I ask because I as a poltical orphan was just like some of you. Waaaahhh FOX newssss WAHHHHHH Bush's fault...Then I realized that both sides are playing the same freaking game just in a different way. Right now both sides suck. But this play ground behavior of Republicans and Fox blah blah blah.. Has gone on long enough. Don't you want to know the truth at all?

WhyteRaven74: Funny you never say a bad word about those industries farking over countless people and then refusing to own up to their own stupidity.

I was always taught, let the buyer beware. The ultimate responsibility falls on the person who signs up for stupid shiat. There are reams of consumer laws already. Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

Just wait until you see what a corrupt government can do. Buckle in.

Mr. Breeze: \\I have to wonder if he meant that the only change you can believe in is the change you'll have left in your pocket after he's done raping the treasury.

So Lehman Brothers, WaMu etc all are totally blameless in all this?

Andyr2120 [TotalFark] 2009-07-12 12:26:55 PM
Nemo's Brother: Obama has either gone full retard, or he is a brilliant and wants American to fall.

I've been reading Fark for years, and I have been a TF member for the last 2-3 years. This is the first dipshiat I've ever added to my ignore list.

The moon-bat is strong with this one. Nine years of reading/seeing bush called everything from a child molester, to Hitler reincarnate and it's all giggles.

One very tepid critique of "The One" and he's hiding under his bed covers.

elchip: Republicans are gonna be so pissed when the unemployment rate starts going down...

I guess I should clarify what the "alternative" rate is.

It's the official rate + marginally attached workers ("persons who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the recent past" -- so-called discouraged workers are a subset of this) + those prevented from working as much as they would like to because of the economy.

mark12A: Money is a lot more mobile these days. Soak the rich, and they'll pull up stakes and move their business interests to China, S. Korea, South America, etc. The rich stayed here after WWII because their weren't a lot of alternatives.

tariffs :)

Mr. Breeze: Still waiting on Pelosi's 100 days of change.

\goes well with Obama's change that I can believe in.
\\I have to wonder if he meant that the only change you can believe in is the change you'll have left in your pocket after he's done raping the treasury.

Get it? Get it? He promised change, and I don't agree with the kind of change!
See what I did there?

Agenda for a New Economy: From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth

David C Korten

a good read, even if you don't like his proposed solution, he does plenty to address what's wrong with the system.

Torque420: I would have to say that its not so much the American people saying this but the Repubs and FOX news who are. I dont know of one intelligent person who dosent understand that it will take time for the federal moneys to be dispursed and for the American people to see any difference in their daily lives and job market

The GOP and FauxNews is trying like hell to blame the economy on Obama, because according to them, it was just fine on January 19th, 2009 and fell though it's ass on January 20th.

Mr. Breeze: B B B B But Bush!!!

Still waiting on Pelosi's 100 days of change.

\goes well with Obama's change that I can believe in.
\\I have to wonder if he meant that the only change you can believe in is the change you'll have left in your pocket after he's done raping the treasury.

As opposed to when Bush raped the Treasury with his upper class tax cuts and spending trillions in that oily hole in the desert called "Iraq"?

ragekage: Nemo's Brother: I don't write most of these headlines. I just try to tick enough people off so that they go greenlight. Mission accomplished, you easily manipulated sheep!

Cool story, bro!

But hey, that actually works for me- and especially you admitting it. You know, people will associate you and your actions with the Republican part, and I'm all for that.

Tell the guys back at DU you're one helluva effective troll!

Sounds like he's admitting that he works for Fark. I do believe we found his TF sponsor, and he goes by the name of Drew.

GaryPDX: Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

It's ludicrous except for being factually true. They knew what they were doing and knew it would end up as a clusterfark eventually, but they kept doing it. Interestingly, those banks and investment houses who didn't do the same things, are doing much better now. All those collapsed banks and investment houses brought it on themselves. Yet somehow it's not their fault things are seriously messed up according to some people.

GaryPDX: Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

This is actually a true statement in GaryPDX's Bizarro World.

GaryPDX: WhyteRaven74: Funny you never say a bad word about those industries farking over countless people and then refusing to own up to their own stupidity.

I was always taught, let the buyer beware. The ultimate responsibility falls on the person who signs up for stupid shiat. There are reams of consumer laws already. Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

Just wait until you see what a corrupt government can do. Buckle in.

This wasn't a simple case of a company making or selling a bad product or service, it was a case of whole industries becoming toxic to the entire economy via the greed and stupidity of a handful of incredibly wealthy people. Caveat emptor doesn't really apply.

"Agencies are starting to get the money and are bidding projects and hiring workers."

Yeah. Sadly, Obama sees no difference between creating "jobs" and creating "work."

Full retard would be to say the first $5 trillion stimulus (11t ish world wide) didn't work and reach the conclusion that we need a fourth stimulus.


/this is not the second stimulus, maybe for Obama but not for the country.

WhyteRaven74: GaryPDX: Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

It's ludicrous except for being factually true. They knew what they were doing and knew it would end up as a clusterfark eventually, but they kept doing it. Interestingly, those banks and investment houses who didn't do the same things, are doing much better now. All those collapsed banks and investment houses brought it on themselves. Yet somehow it's not their fault things are seriously messed up according to some people.

Have you ever shopped for a used car? The buyer/consumer holds the ultimate control. Greed is with everyone, including Liberals. Like I said, some unscrupulous businesses are nothing compared to what a corrupt government can do.

Follow the money. Make better buying decisions.

FDR tried to manage the economy. Dismal economy.
Truman didn't know how to manage the economy. Successful economy.
Eisenhower didn't try to manage the economy. Successful economy.
Kennedy cut taxes and let the economy go. Successful economy.
LBJ tried to manage the economy. Dismal economy.
Nixon tried to manage the economy. Dismal economy.
Carter tried to manage the economy. Dismal economy.
Reagan cut taxes and let the economy go. Successful economy.
Bush I wanted to manage the economy through taxation. Dismal economy.
Clinton did almost nothing to change the Reagan model after the failure of Hillary Care. Successful economy.
Bush II let the economy go. Successful economy.
Bush II after 2006 tried to manage the economy. Dismal economy.

See the pattern yet?

Obama is trying to manage the economy. He will fail.

The most sucessful ecomomies reward the commen people who have better things to do than produce. You do this by taxing and regulating people who desire to build things. Prime movers are so greedy that when punished they produce more and take care of those with other things to do.
Many countries have had great success by just printing the money they need.
When you have kids always encourage and reward the artistic child who wipes the wall with feces.
If a child shows any self-motivation or accountibility punish them severely.
This will create children prepaired for success in the times ahead.

elchip: tariffs :)

I wish. It would do a lot to bring manufacturing home, but business/government seem to worship this "Global Commerce" thingy.

SingletonFactory: This wasn't a simple case of a company making or selling a bad product or service, it was a case of whole industries becoming toxic to the entire economy via the greed and stupidity of a handful of incredibly wealthy people. Caveat emptor doesn't really apply.

Who's all tied up with Wall Street now..eh? And the biggest ponzi scheme in American history was done by a Democrat.

dustman81: Torque420: I would have to say that its not so much the American people saying this but the Repubs and FOX news who are. I dont know of one intelligent person who dosent understand that it will take time for the federal moneys to be dispursed and for the American people to see any difference in their daily lives and job market

The GOP and FauxNews is trying like hell to blame the economy on Obama, because according to them, it was just fine on January 19th, 2009 and fell though it's ass on January 20th.

Mr. Breeze: B B B B But Bush!!!

Still waiting on Pelosi's 100 days of change.

\goes well with Obama's change that I can believe in.
\\I have to wonder if he meant that the only change you can believe in is the change you'll have left in your pocket after he's done raping the treasury.

As opposed to when Bush raped the Treasury with his upper class tax cuts and spending trillions in that oily hole in the desert called "Iraq"?

Trillions huh?
Link

Looks to be less than 1 trillion, which is not as much as the big O has spent so far 6 months into his presidency.

Andyr2120 [TotalFark] 2009-07-12 12:26:55 PM
Nemo's Brother: Obama has either gone full retard, or he is a brilliant and wants American to fall.

I've been reading Fark for years, and I have been a TF member for the last 2-3 years. This is the first dipshiat I've ever added to my ignore list.

Coward....

I HAVE IT ON GOOD THORITY THAT THERE NEGRO SOL HIS SOWE TO THE DEBIL!!!

this thread already makes my brain hurt. i just get back from a two week vacation to this shiat?fark my life.
log off now markoff, save your soul.

mark12A: elchip: tariffs :)

I wish. It would do a lot to bring manufacturing home, but business/government seem to worship this "Global Commerce" thingy.

Hoover signing the Smoot-Hawley act (tariffs) were the single most devastting act leading to the Great Depression. I'm not all hot about Global Commerce but excessive tariffs invite retaliation which stops all trade and all business. The greatest thing the government could do to improve the manufacturing climate in this country would be to ease up on the onerous regulations that inhibit every facet of business.

As one of those contractors, I will support arguments that there simply hasn't been time for these jobs to begin (and thus, for the cash to flow). However, workers aren't being hired. Period. We are still working the same number of guys as before -- just taking advantage of the fact that the jobs are coming out so slow. It isn't direct fraud, but management is definitely taking advantage of the situation to make sure the guys at the top get their profits before they worry about silly things like hiring more workers.

/Never supported the stimulus.
//Doesn't give a damn about stockholders, personally.
///Job's a job.

Mr. Right:
Reagan cut taxes and let the economy go. Successful economy.

lulz:

One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year's reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike--the largest since World War II--was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn't count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives--and probably cost Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection--Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84.

Reagan continued these "modest rollbacks" in his second term. The historic Tax Reform Act of 1986, though it achieved the supply side goal of lowering individual income tax rates, was a startlingly progressive reform. The plan imposed the largest corporate tax increase in history--an act utterly unimaginable for any conservative to support today. Just two years after declaring, "there is no justification" for taxing corporate income, Reagan raised corporate taxes by $120 billion over five years and closed corporate tax loopholes worth about $300 billion over that same period.

He also tripled the deficit. Your hero.

Mr. Right: Hoover signing the Smoot-Hawley act (tariffs) were the single most devastting act leading to the Great Depression. I'm not all hot about Global Commerce but excessive tariffs invite retaliation which stops all trade and all business. The greatest thing the government could do to improve the manufacturing climate in this country would be to ease up on the onerous regulations that inhibit every facet of business.

Our great nation was founded on tariffs and protectionism.

elchip: Republicans are gonna be so pissed when the unemployment rate starts going down...

Ain't gonna happen this year. Will probably increase and stay in the 20% range (if not more) throughout 2011 and then who the hell knows what's in store for 2012.

It'll be interesting to watch how the government changes the definition of "unemployment" in order to keep the actual numbers within a more acceptable falsified range.

WhyteRaven74: GaryPDX: Claiming that evil businesses screwed over millions of people is ludicrous.

It's ludicrous except for being factually true. They knew what they were doing and knew it would end up as a clusterfark eventually, but they kept doing it. Interestingly, those banks and investment houses who didn't do the same things, are doing much better now. All those collapsed banks and investment houses brought it on themselves. Yet somehow it's not their fault things are seriously messed up according to some people.

People who bought houses with no money are the ones most likely to default & re-default (there was an article in the NYT or WSJ a little while ago about 0% down/LTV ratio being far more correlated with default rates than "subprime" in general... don't have the link with me)... but of course, they are losing their homes, and they can't be blamed, or something.

And it's more complicated than irresponsible lending. For instance, the direct cause of IndyMac's failure was the liquidity crisis, which was certainly aided by non-performance in their loan portfolio... but it was not simply a factor of dhey maed badd loans & tuuk mah house frum meh!

Blaming banks for the EXTREME levels of liquidity in the market due to the rush into loan securitization internationally (not just us, but money came from EVERYWHERE)... there was so much cheap money coming in, it really helped stupid corp-serfs give it out to loser deadbeats.

BUT... it's easy to say that the banks were bad, and to write stupid shiat into law like limiting executive management from flying in private jets (look up some of the legislation from the time if you want to see those clauses. It's in the original TARP, along with a couple other bills I've read through).

It was just a complicated failure with a lot of moving parts that broke horribly & spectacularly. Don't take others off the hook by blaming dumbass bankster middlemen in this clusterfrak.

Klingon Penis: Mr. Right:
Reagan cut taxes and let the economy go. Successful economy.



He also tripled the deficit. Your hero.

The economy was successful. If deficits are a bad thing, your boy Obama is evil incarnate.

Yes, he's printing money as fast as he can... he just wants to spend, spend, spend which is why at this same conference he turned down the idea of second stimulus. That's right, idiots, he's so OBVIOUSLY in love with the idea of simply spending our way to recovery that he called Krugmans plan out on its stupid face.

Megain: Gosling: Megain, if you know he didn't write the headline despite him never saying so himself... who did?

that i don't know. and to be fair, he could have written them using an alt. but his number of greenlights has been steady at 5 since before the first of three instances i'm referring to, which precludes him from being the submitter

People never have alts on Fark.

Mr. Right: Hoover signing the Smoot-Hawley act (tariffs) were the single most devastting act leading to the Great Depression. I'm not all hot about Global Commerce but excessive tariffs invite retaliation which stops all trade and all business.

Hoover, Smoot, and Hawley: Republicans, all.

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: elchip: Republicans are gonna be so pissed when the unemployment rate starts going down...

Ain't gonna happen this year. Will probably increase and stay in the 20% range (if not more) throughout 2011 and then who the hell knows what's in store for 2012.

It'll be interesting to watch how the government changes the definition of "unemployment" in order to keep the actual numbers within a more acceptable falsified range.

I have a reasonably good guess..lol.

the liberal idiotness is strong in this thread.

"Obama will save us!"

Asshats.

It took Bush eight years to take the largest and wealthiest economy on the whole farking planet and basically send us on a downward spiral into third world nationhood. Give Obama a break people.

GaryPDX: Have you ever shopped for a used car? The buyer/consumer holds the ultimate control. Greed is with everyone, including Liberals. Like I said, some unscrupulous businesses are nothing compared to what a corrupt government can do.

Follow the money. Make better buying decisions.

That's good advice and all but no one in America would be rich without the continuing presence of suckers. It's like 80% of people now. That's why the used car lots are still in business.

Thunderpipes: the liberal idiotness is strong in this thread.

"Obama will save us!"

Asshats.

Nobody is saying that. Asshat.

GaryPDX: Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: elchip: Republicans are gonna be so pissed when the unemployment rate starts going down...

Ain't gonna happen this year. Will probably increase and stay in the 20% range (if not more) throughout 2011 and then who the hell knows what's in store for 2012.

It'll be interesting to watch how the government changes the definition of "unemployment" in order to keep the actual numbers within a more acceptable falsified range.

I have a reasonably good guess..lol.

What's that? I seem to be missing the joke (nothing new there).

Riche: Priming the economic pump takes time-- years, even.

How to be a Keynsian Economist: 101:

Scenario 1: Things get worse.
Statement: "Government spending has successfully slowed the decline. Businesses are beginning to feel safe again but it takes time. Unemployment is getting worse, but it is a lagging indicator. Without intervention, the market would have completely fallen out and the country would have plunged into chaos. There is no telling how bad things would be today."

Scenario 2: Things stay the same.
Statement: "The government has successfully halted the recession by filling market gaps and priming the economic pumps. Now investors have a safe foothold upon which to build again."

Scenario 3: Things get better.
Statement: "Proof positive that our policies are working. Without government aid the recession would have carried on indefinitely."

Note: May be repeated continuously for a decade or more (see Depression I). Apply as necessary.

See also: Religion

elchip: Mr. Right: Hoover signing the Smoot-Hawley act (tariffs) were the single most devastting act leading to the Great Depression. I'm not all hot about Global Commerce but excessive tariffs invite retaliation which stops all trade and all business. The greatest thing the government could do to improve the manufacturing climate in this country would be to ease up on the onerous regulations that inhibit every facet of business.

Our great nation was founded on tariffs and protectionism.

Economies based on tariffs and protectionism always fail. Free economies thrive. Singapore, anyone?