"The State Department asserts that hackers won't find any practical use for data skimmed from RFID chips embedded in the cards"

Of course they will.

Also why do we need RFIDs in our IDs anyway? What are they putting in the chips that can't be put in a magnetic strip on the card?

it is theoretically possible to 'skim' RFID data while standing on a train for the morning commute. put the rig in your laptop bag, stand next to someone who looks like they work in an office and stand next to them for a while. Do this a couple times a week (on the ride in and the ride out. Then spend the next week cracking the data to see what you've picked up.

Weaver95: it is theoretically possible to 'skim' RFID data while standing on a train for the morning commute. put the rig in your laptop bag, stand next to someone who looks like they work in an office and stand next to them for a while. Do this a couple times a week (on the ride in and the ride out. Then spend the next week cracking the data to see what you've picked up.

Just so you folks don't confused, I posted this after Weaver95 walked past me on the street and I got his SIN, passport data and driver's license off stuff being beamed from his wallet, then cracked his Fark password through some reverse engineering.

I'm about to hash his password and put it on UseNet - just after I send an email to Drew claiming that imposters keep trying to steal his login and they've already breached his email, so under no circumstances must Fark authorities ever reset it just because a fake named Weaver asked - so rest assured, if you ever see him post again, it's another imposter.

There's been more than a few discussions and demonstrations about how easy it is to crack RFID data. most of it isn't even encrypted, just obscure. According to a quick and dirty eBay search, an RFID read/write device is easily available for somewhere around $50-200. The more expensive the rig, the better the range. USB powered too, so you could run it off your laptop without any problems.

If we're going to start putting sensitive data on RFID chips, then we should encrypt it.

40below: Weaver95: it is theoretically possible to 'skim' RFID data while standing on a train for the morning commute. put the rig in your laptop bag, stand next to someone who looks like they work in an office and stand next to them for a while. Do this a couple times a week (on the ride in and the ride out. Then spend the next week cracking the data to see what you've picked up.

Just so you folks don't confused, I posted this after Weaver95 walked past me on the street and I got his SIN, passport data and driver's license off stuff being beamed from his wallet, then cracked his Fark password through some reverse engineering.

I'm about to hash his password and put it on UseNet - just after I send an email to Drew claiming that imposters keep trying to steal his login and they've already breached his email, so under no circumstances must Fark authorities ever reset it just because a fake named Weaver asked - so rest assured, if you ever see him post again, it's another impostor.


That second Weaver95 post is obviously the fake Weaver95. Alert the authorities!

From here:

Climbing into his Volvo, outfitted with a Matrics antenna and a Motorola reader he'd bought on eBay for $190, Chris Paget cruised the streets of San Francisco with this objective: To read the identity cards of strangers, wirelessly, without ever leaving his car.

It took him 20 minutes to strike hacker's gold.

Zipping past Fisherman's Wharf, his scanner detected, then downloaded to his laptop, the unique serial numbers of two pedestrians' electronic U.S. passport cards embedded with radio frequency identification, or RFID, tags. Within an hour, he'd "skimmed" the identifiers of four more of the new, microchipped PASS cards from a distance of 20 feet.

Paget's February experiment demonstrated something privacy advocates had feared for years: That RFID, coupled with other technologies, could make people trackable without their knowledge or consent.

He filmed his drive-by heist, and soon his video went viral on the Web, intensifying a debate over a push by government, federal and state, to put tracking technologies in identity documents and over their potential to erode privacy.

So...if the US and State governments are concerned about the security of the RFID tags in these new passports, um, maybe we SHOULDN'T BE FARKING HAVING THEM??

dahmers love zombie: So...if the US and State governments are concerned about the security of the RFID tags in these new passports, um, maybe we SHOULDN'T BE FARKING HAVING THEM??

Why do you hate freedom?

dahmers love zombie: So...if the US and State governments are concerned about the security of the RFID tags in these new passports, um, maybe we SHOULDN'T BE FARKING HAVING THEM??

Because personal responsibility and such.

Weaver95: There's been more than a few discussions and demonstrations about how easy it is to crack RFID data. most of it isn't even encrypted, just obscure. According to a quick and dirty eBay search, an RFID read/write device is easily available for somewhere around $50-200. The more expensive the rig, the better the range. USB powered too, so you could run it off your laptop without any problems.

If we're going to start putting sensitive data on RFID chips, then we should encrypt it.

No encryption required, just don't use RFID technology on sensitive documents that can be scanned in public.

dahmers love zombie: So...if the US and State governments are concerned about the security of the RFID tags in these new passports, um, maybe we SHOULDN'T BE FARKING HAVING THEM??

Bears repeating.

I have one in my new drivers license and the CIA is tracking my every move 0_o

An RFID Blocking Wallet doesn't seem so far fetched or absurd NOW, does it?!
http://www.rpi-polymath.com.nyud.net/ducttape/RFIDWallet.php

MIguy: I have one in my new drivers license and the CIA is tracking my every move 0_o

Seriously, I am against chipping anything. If I could reasonably I would go cash only.

We got our hats!

Unless you use cash for everything, it's not exactly hard to track you as it is. How often do you use a credit or check card? And most cell phones are GPS enabled nowdays. RFID just allows them to pinpoint your exact location a little faster.

/adjusts tinfoil hat

There was some article about disabling the RFID tags. Put it between two thin books and hit it with a hammer. But since purposely disabling the chip is illegal, never admit it was anything but an accident.

To The Escape Zeppelin!: There was some article about disabling the RFID tags. Put it between two thin books and hit it with a hammer. But since purposely disabling the chip is illegal, never admit it was anything but an accident.

Can we just microwave them?

Man I remember when I told people RFID could be used to track people once they became ubiquitous. I remember being called a foil hat and being told that RFID had a max range of 'under a foot maximum'. Good to see now that it's too late people are taking notice.

LittleSmitty: Unless you use cash for everything, it's not exactly hard to track you as it is. How often do you use a credit or check card? And most cell phones are GPS enabled nowdays. RFID just allows them to pinpoint your exact location a little faster.

/adjusts tinfoil hat

Just like the people who put down fake information when getting a shopper's discount card so no one will know who they are or what they're buying...

...and then promptly pay for their items with a debit/credit card.

If you have an Enhanced Drivers License, a US passport booklet issued in the past 3 years or a US Passport card, you have an RFID document.

If you have a Mastercard with "PayPass", a Visa card with "PayWave" or an American Express card with "ExpressPay", you have an RFID enabled credit card.

It is well worth it to get a RFID blocking wallet.

/$19.99 at ThinkGeek
//You can also get a RFID experimentation kit for $99.99

so...

this is all for...

security?

:- /

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Can we just microwave them?

That is also supposed to work, 20 seconds according to some people.

RFID are also found in smart cards (office security), certain credit cards, some newer drivers licenses, and those stupid tags they put in your clothes to deter shoplifters.

I have a RFID sheath for my passport - they started putting the RFID chips in US passports in 2008. You can buy them, and you can also buy RFID-proof wallets online. Magellan's has them (online travel gear store). Or you can make one out of foil and duct tape, if you like that look.

bunner: so...

this is all for...

security?

:- /

Yep, too bad it's not your security

I have one of these:

Link (new window)

A week after I got my license in the mail, I got a sleeve from the state in case I wanted to don the in foil.

So when they embed the RFIDs into citizens themselves, we'll all have to wear tin foil suits?

MIguy: A week after I got my license in the mail, I got a sleeve from the state in case I wanted to don the in foil.

I have the new National style DL that Florida issues. I never even thought about it, but I bet that mofo has RFID. Ah well, time to get a new wallet anyway.

"The State Department asserts that hackers won't find any practical use for data skimmed from RFID chips embedded in the cards"

How about a bomb that only explodes when a certain number of people whose passports match the targeted country come into range? You could set it up months in advance and forget about it.

Flexing the cards will also break most RFID tags, at least it did with our work IDs.

dear government,

remember when you first announced that you were putting chips in things and everyone said it was a dumb idea but you assured us it was prefectly safe? go fark yourself.

sincerely,

the people

DIFRWear FTW. I have a wallet and a passport cover. I travel internationally quite a bit. Since the data on the chips in passports are signed by the issuing agency, it is easy to identify the holder's nationality at a distance. If the terrorists in Mumbai had spent more money on scanners and software than weapons, it would have been no trouble for them to find more westerners.

NutWrench: "The State Department asserts that hackers won't find any practical use for data skimmed from RFID chips embedded in the cards"

How about a bomb that only explodes when a certain number of people whose passports match the targeted country come into range? You could set it up months in advance and forget about it.

why do you hate america?

Has anyone got a fridge magnet the size of a bidnezz card? Would that help?

Isn't it kinda weird that they're recommending this measure, given that, from what antecdotal evidence I've heard and read, RFIDs are a fairly nonsecure way to conduct business?

"Attention population: due to a 100% increase in the giant, radioactive-metal, laser-crab population we suggest you figure out a way to keep them away from your house. People have been using paprika, but we've been told guns also work too."

and i was pissed when a credit union wanted my thumb print to open a savings account.

What's the point of RFID supposed to be? Contactless scanning? My license has a 2D bar code that works without contact and can't be read while the card is in my wallet.

It ought to be easy to add a button and make RFID not work if the button isn't pressed to close a circuit. The circuit can be sealed in plastic. It doesn't even need to be a conventional button. Something that changes electrical properties when compressed would do.

"Federal and state authorities recommend that you get tiny tinfoil hats for your RFID-embedded documents"

Why, is there something wrong with my hammer?

FYI:
Microwaving will work, but it is identifiable as such and you can be charged with felony ID tampering if you do it to your passport. A hammer blow on the other hand is simple impact damage which ccould be reasonably ascribed to a number of conceivable sources.

NutWrench: How about a bomb that only explodes when a certain number of people whose passports match the targeted country come into range? You could set it up months in advance and forget about it.

Imaginative people are the reason that these security measures will never truly succeed. In ten minutes we turned a flawed passport design into a way to make sure your bombs kill only Americans.

thesubliminalman: Has anyone got a fridge magnet the size of a bidnezz card? Would that help?

It will wipe the mag strip on your credit/debit cards, as well as the one on your DL if it is a new style like mine

They can find us from satellites with this. It's very simple technology, actually. Here's how it wo

Haha, jus kidding. What is RFID?

BTW: Do not microwave your passport... the arcing will leave a burn mark and defacing your passport is a crime. A dead-drop hammer blow right over the RFID symbol on the passport will destroy the chip and leave little evidence.

Balchinian beat me to it...

LittleSmitty: thesubliminalman: Has anyone got a fridge magnet the size of a bidnezz card? Would that help?

It will wipe the mag strip on your credit/debit cards, as well as the one on your DL if it is a new style like mine

I just wonder about the results,does it mean the cops haul my but off or can I say oh my gosh, the fridge mag did it sorry? On the credit/debit card it just means I can't get cash, with the cops I might spent the night in the state hotel.

thesubliminalman:
I just wonder about the results,does it mean the cops haul my but off or can I say oh my gosh, the fridge mag did it sorry? On the credit/debit card it just means I can't get cash, with the cops I might spent the night in the state hotel.

A magnet will have no effect on RFID chips.

I paid extra when I renewed my license to get the RFID chip. It makes it so much quicker to cross the bridge to Canada.

I guess you can mark me down as one of the "crazies" that uses cash for everything. There is honestly no reason you need any sort of card. In certain circumstances like emergencies, it may be plausible. But you should really be carrying cash that can cover you in almost any situation. The grocery store even asks you for your phone number if you buy a 2 liter sundrop now. Why do they need that? I always just make one up, but that's not the point.

thesubliminalman: LittleSmitty: thesubliminalman: Has anyone got a fridge magnet the size of a bidnezz card? Would that help?

It will wipe the mag strip on your credit/debit cards, as well as the one on your DL if it is a new style like mine

I just wonder about the results,does it mean the cops haul my but off or can I say oh my gosh, the fridge mag did it sorry? On the credit/debit card it just means I can't get cash, with the cops I might spent the night in the state hotel.

For now cops are only interested in the printed info. It wasn't scanned during the last DUI checkpoint I went thru. They were only interested if that last new digit at the end of my DL. The one that indicates the # of Felonies one has. I imagine they will eventually get to scanning them, but for now Florida just runs the FL number

sinanju: thesubliminalman:

A magnet will have no effect on RFID chips.

So impact damage will, magnets don't. What else does have an effect. Moisture, electrical shock, photo damage ir laser anything?

sinanju: A magnet will have no effect on RFID chips.

How about one of those super strong magnets like the one I found in an old crashed HD I took apart?

/Thing was the strongest magnet I'd ever seen!