can they call it a homo-abortion-pot-and-commie-jizzporium instead?

I hope he spends many years rotting in a pee-pee-soaked heck-hole.

I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Church

Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Christmas

You're not giving us much else to work with, Mr. Alamo.

gorgor: Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Church-sanctioned

FIFY

Miss Stein: gorgor: Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Church-sanctioned

FIFY

Sacred ritual would also work.

Fair trade - we'll also not use "due process", "fair trial" and "not guilty".

these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

This is a pretty common tactic with respect to language. All sorts of language can unfairly prejudice the jury.

Multi-wiving fanatically narrow religious sect's enclosure.

Problem solved, and now it sounds even worse!

Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

Almost had me till the end. 7/10.

Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

To be fair "polygamy," "cult" and "compound" are loaded words. Couldn't one use"open marriage", "alternative religion", and "sacred ground"?

Polygamy is a pretty direct term, though. "Cult" is definitely prejudicial, and "compound" could be unless it's what the cultists religious group used it, themselves.

Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

But, but... I don't wanna go to mormon heaven.

Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Banana

lizardcowgal: Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

I wonder if they'll want to file a motion to request that words like "hot" and "beef" and "injection" aren't used when their client is in jail getting a hot beef injection?

what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

I guess the defense has a point: if they guy is a pedophile, call him that; the other accusations originate from murky moral/religious waters, and only serve as points of character assassination in a trial that only incidentally relates to them. Bringing them up in point of fact is one thing, but repeating it every five minutes, as any good prosecutor would, should be tantamount to jury contamination... though it certainly wouldn't be viewed as such.

Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.


Um, isn't for a jury to decide whether he's guilty or innocent?

All organized religion is an attempt at mass mind control and therefore unethical if not outright immoral-IMHO

craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: snip

Um, isn't for a jury to decide whether he's guilty or innocent?

it's up to the voters to decide who's president, but you still see people griping about obama.

509boatman55: All organized religion is an attempt at mass mind control and therefore unethical if not outright immoral-IMHO

You could say the same about public education, television or books.

Livingroom: craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: snip

Um, isn't for a jury to decide whether he's guilty or innocent?

it's up to the voters to decide who's president, but you still see people griping about obama.


What the hell does that have to do with anything? Maybe I has the dumb today but that made no damn sense to me.

Livingroom: what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

So if he's convicted, does that mean god wants Tony Alamo to spend the rest of his life in PMITA prison? And what kind of god would want that for one of his servants?

fizzix_is_fun: can they call it a homo-abortion-pot-and-commie-jizzporium instead?

They are trying to paint it in a bad light though, not liken it to the YMCA.

craxyd: Livingroom: craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: snip

snip

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Maybe I has the dumb today but that made no damn sense to me.

cant brain today? what i'm getting at is whether it's up to the jury or not, i can still have an opinion on the matter. and, knowing the man, and knowing his medical condition, i can know that these charges are as false as can be.

the witty reply i made indicates that it was up to voters to decide the president, and now 9 months later people are still saying he's illegal/illegitimate/not born in the US and so on. they're entitled to their opinions, too, even though it's out of their hands what is decided.

Your Faith is Creepy: Livingroom: what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

So if he's convicted, does that mean god wants Tony Alamo to spend the rest of his life in PMITA prison? And what kind of god would want that for one of his servants?

the point is, he wont be. he will be aquitted. you can laugh now and mock at me, but he will be.

pjspaws:
But, but... I don't wanna go to mormon heaven.

No shiat. My idea of "outer darkness" (Mormon-speak for hell) is spending eternity as Wife #43 of a so-called priesthood holder, bearing his spirit-children to populate his personal planet that revolves around the star Kolob.

/sooner take the real eternal darkness anyday

Headline made me think of the amusing Extenze infomercials; they sell a penis-enlarging pill and go a whole 30 minutes without mentioning either "penis" or "pill", opting instead for "that special part of the male body."

Your Faith is Creepy: Livingroom: what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

So if he's convicted, does that mean god wants Tony Alamo to spend the rest of his life in PMITA prison? And what kind of god would want that for one of his servants?

The kind of god that doesn't like his so-called servants reading his laws the way they want to instead of the way HE meant them to.

I honestly believe in freedom of (and from) religion. That includes the polygamists, cultists, et al. Believe whatever you want, as long as you don't forcefully indoctrinate others, and don't make trouble for your neighbors. Given that this specific fine specimen of Mormon insanity (not to point at Mormons specifically... there are crazies in all beliefs) is in essence a whipping boy does not do our justice system any favors.

CNN was doing a 24 hour reel on how evil polygamy was, and how awful its members were, despite the fact that most of the folks they interviewed were just fine with the system, and not really bad neighbors to boot. They had to SEARCH for the baddies. Frankly, there are baddies in every religious stripe, simply because people suck. That doesn't mean the religion or belief system inherently sucks, only that the people who practice it do.

Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile. Polygamy, and by extension Mormonism in its older form, are not directly responsible for that.

OH, Livingroom. That death giggle made my brain explode. It's all your fault, you made the janitor have to work overtime. You bastard.

Livingroom: craxyd: Livingroom: craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: snip

snip

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Maybe I has the dumb today but that made no damn sense to me.


No need to be so snippy...

It's not a Compound (slightly NFSW images flashed in there)

It's a ranch, and it's our home.

/the original interview was pretty creepy to begin with

hairywoogit: snip

OH, Livingroom. That death giggle made my brain explode. It's all your fault, you made the janitor have to work overtime. You bastard.

hehe, thats pretty awesome, isnt it? i was bored.

This reminds me of the controversy over using the word "rape" in a trial when you're prosecuting a rape. So what do you call it? Surprise sex?

Polygamy is a fairly straightforward word. Opposite of monogamy. If they weren't marrying, it might be better described as polyamory, if it was multiple husbands, it would be polyandry.

I could see not wanting to use cult, but I can almost assure you that motion will fail, and if it did the ASSC would not overturn the conviction based on it. If they did that they might have to overturn the conviction of the West Memphis Three.

also, tony alamo is not a mormon. polygamy != mormons, all the time. plus, no polygamy or underage crap went on there.

Livingroom:

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

If God is angered by our petty arguments about a man in trouble with the law, then he is not truly a god.

/unknown is unknowable
//been reading about taoism

Wow. Reading up on Tony on the web is an experience.

1. He's been successful in business

2. He's had several "disagreements" with the authorities, on everything from labor laws to his treatment of children.

3. His personal life seems turbulent, best exemplified by the phrase "women -- can't live with 'em; can't live without 'em"

4. His religious philosophy is somewhat apart from the mainstream

5. His church seems less like a conventional church and more like a cult.

Tony's going to need a real good lawyer on this case, from all that I read about him.

If the state can't convict him without using prejudicial words, then he deserves to go free.
If they're trying to prove multiple counts of statutory rape, then that it occurred in a compound, camp, housing project, ranch, or anything else is irrelevant. Same thing with cult. And as for polygamy, unless they're charging him with bigamy, then that's irrelevant, too.

oh believe you me, there was plenty of polygamy and underage crap going on there

Oznog, did you ever watch the original interview? It actually made me very angry with the interviewer. Admittedly, the women being interviewed creeped me out something awful, but freedom of religion also has to cover the creepy folks, as long as they don't break specific laws.

Oh, and entirely my fault, Livingroom. I crossed wires in my head, and thought he was Warren Jeffs for some reason. Isn't Tony Alamo one of the basic Christian nutballs, as opposed to the Mormon variety?

hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

Meh, that's a thoughtcrime. He's charged with having sex with underage girls, not "being someone who likes sex with underage girls". We don't charge pedophiles any more than we charge alcoholics... but have sex with the kid, or get behind the wheel drunk, and we'll charge you because of your action.

Theaetetus:
Meh, that's a thoughtcrime. He's charged with having sex with underage girls, not "being someone who likes sex with underage girls". We don't charge pedophiles any more than we charge alcoholics... but have sex with the kid, or get behind the wheel drunk, and we'll charge you because of your action.

To clarify, I agree with you. Pedophilia isn't illegal, acting on pedophilia is.

The language certainly is loaded, and I believe using it probably would prejudice an ordinary group of people towards the idea that certain things were already foregone conclusions.

As Theaetetus said, if they can't convict without it, they don't deserve to.

hairywoogit:
To clarify, I agree with you. Pedophilia isn't illegal, acting on pedophilia is.

Yeah, but my point is that "pedophile" is (a) not a crime, (b) a loaded word sure to get a conviction no matter what he's charged with, from buggering kids all the way to shooting JFK, and (c) irrelevant, because non-pedophiles can bugger kids, too.

Call him "a person who had sex with underage girls". There's really no reason to use words that are inflammatory. We can't convict him merely for being a pedophile, and if there's no actual evidence, he shouldn't be convicted.

1) This guy is a sleazebag.

2) It's amazing how quickly your home becomes a "compound" once you defy the government, isn't it?

lizardcowgal: Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

Poe's Law.

Until he's found guilty of having sex with underage girls they could at best call him an alleged pedophile. Until he is found guilty of polygamy, they could at best call him an alleged polygamist. The term "compound" (if being used) is only being used to sway the jury. They always call it a "compound" when they're trying to paint the people who live there as bad people. Technically it only means, "an enclosure of residences and other building". So unless they're living in a fenced/walled neighborhood, it isn't a "compound". "Cult" is definitely a loaded term... there's simply no way around that. "Cult" is what religious people call other religious people when they disagree with their practices or what they think are their practices.

Of course technically "cult" means:

1. followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
2. followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
3. a religion or sect that is generally considered to be unorthodox, extremist, or false; "it was a satanic cult"

Of course in my opinion, nearly every single religious group out there fits #3.

Theaetetus:
Yeah, but my point is that "pedophile" is (a) not a crime, (b) a loaded word sure to get a conviction no matter what he's charged with, from buggering kids all the way to shooting JFK, and (c) irrelevant, because non-pedophiles can bugger kids, too.

Call him "a person who had sex with underage girls". There's really no reason to use words that are inflammatory. We can't convict him merely for being a pedophile, and if there's no actual evidence, he shouldn't be convicted.

Agreed. As I said, he is being used as a whipping boy, and it does our justice system no good.

TEXARKANA, Ark. - ... Tony Alamo (uh-LAH'-moh)

Notice the pronunciation guide. That's Texarkana, Arkansas. What a shiathole.

Phil McKraken: Notice the pronunciation guide. That's Texarkana, Arkansas. What a shiathole.

The only redeeming thing in that whole area is Hot Springs... and that place is only mildly redeeming. Otherwise, Arkadelphia, Texarkana, Little Rock... all shiatholes. I guess they did have a few pretty mountain roads but that's it.

I'd never heard of this guy, so of course I had to google him...



Thats from a leaflet his ministry produced. Not farking kidding.

Oznog: It's not a Compound (slightly NFSW images flashed in there)

It's a ranch, and it's our home.

Wrong group.

eqtworld: I wish I had a compound and multiple 14 year old girls to f*ck

:(

/that guy was big pimpin for real



Church sign?

NutWrench: 1) This guy is a sleazebag.

2) It's amazing how quickly your home becomes a "compound" once you defy the government, isn't it?

I thought it only became a compound after you had stockpiled X amount of guns.

(of course, X is a variable who's value depends on how much you pi$$ off some government lackey)

Is "compound" really that loaded of a word? Is "camp" a loaded word? Or "place with buildings in it"?

/Double plus good marriage religion place.

Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

Well, then, all I can say is he seems sleazy as all get out to me.

cowgirl toffee: webpages.charter.net

Church sign?

Heh, wrong group too. The Family/Children of God is the cult that practices hooking for jesus.

I say fry the bastard and let god sort 'em out... If he performed sexual acts with children, well, he'll burn, if not, free pass to the pearly gates. Problem solved, NEXT QUESTION!

A terrific read: Tim Cahill's "A Wolverine is Eating My Leg". He infiltrated the Tony Alamo compound and lived among them for awhile as one of the 'converts' just to see what the heck was going on in there. It was awful, naturally. But the article he wrote about it was hysterical.
Actually, the whole book is terrific.

By the time your defense lawyer starts making motions to block such words, most people can already hear the cat being raped in the bag.

People are crazy.

/got nothin'

prjindigo: By the time your defense lawyer starts making motions to block such words, most people can already hear the cat being raped in the bag.

It's not like the jury will hear the objections. This is just part of the game. They are preparing for war.

"On the hottest, sweatiest, smelliest days, they would still force this children to play Monopoly, gamy as they were. Calling them on the intercom, pounding on their doors, because it was central to their culture."

Phil McKraken: TEXARKANA, Ark. - ... Tony Alamo (uh-LAH'-moh)

Notice the pronunciation guide. That's Texarkana, Arkansas. What a shiathole.

It's pronounced "Oz-WEE-pay"!

Is wording really all that important?? If the defense has to dance around buzz words, how great can their defense be? Prosecuter-"We have a video of the defendant having sex with these minors" Defense- "We object your honor, he's merely healing these girls"..... lol

Considering what a brain-dead bunch of losers the average jury is, this is a very effective strategy.

ninjakirby: cowgirl toffee: webpages.charter.net

Church sign?

Heh, wrong group too. The Family/Children of God is the cult that practices hooking for jesus.

How about this one?



If you squint your eyes and focus on the background, the woman looks like she could have been 14 at one time in her life.

Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

By golly, this is either 100% genuine or it's truly one of the best trolls I've ever seen on fark. Either way, nice work.

Can't forget those jackets.

Link (new window)

Ringshadow: Livingroom:

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

If God is angered by our petty arguments about a man in trouble with the law, then he is not truly a god.

/unknown is unknowable
//been reading about taoism

Toasism is a good start. I myself love Heinlein's "Job: A Comedy of Justice"

Ncgreasemonkey: I say fry the bastard and let god sort 'em out

I'm going to assume you believe in gods and pearly gates and such for a moment...

By calling for the man's death without proof of his wrongdoing and saying, "let god sort 'em out", I can only assume you meant you want god to sort you out. Meaning that you're willing to place your spot in heaven on the line to see this guy killed. See... if you're right and he's a bad guy, you get through the pearly gates (assuming you pass all their other tests). If you're wrong and the guy is innocent in god's eyes... then you burn in hell for calling for an innocent man's death.

Now... I'm not a god worshiper... but if I was, I wouldn't take that bet. Not for that guy.

I fail to see why this is a problem. Terms like this could influence the jury. If the prosecution can't prove a beyond a reasonable doubt that this asshole did what he did then they have no place being part of the DA's office.

Ncgreasemonkey: Is wording really all that important?? If the defense has to dance around buzz words, how great can their defense be? Prosecuter-"We have a video of the defendant having sex with these minors" Defense- "We object your honor, he's merely healing these girls"..... lol

It's about telling a story. Can you come up with a good story that explains the actions in a good light, a story you would like others to believe? Would that story contain words like cult and compound? Probably not.

If you were on the prosecution's end you would want to demonize the defendant as much as possible. You'd call him the devil incarnate if you could.

Every little bit counts when trying to tell your story to the jury, including the language you use.

It does not imply if the defense will be more or less likely to win their case, only that the defense is doing their job.

Claudia Chafer: including the language you use.

Language is literally the sword of the prosecutor. It is the only real weapon they wield. Even evidence only supports their choice of language.

Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

There is no god. Like it or lump it.

Feel free to GTFO, because no one else is going to.

That's the way it is, kiddo.

craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.


Um, isn't for a jury to decide whether he's guilty or innocent?

No, a jury decides if he is found guilty or not guilty. A subtle but important difference.

Ringshadow:

/unknown is unknowable
//been reading about taoism

Forgot to mention the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao;)

JohnnyC: Claudia Chafer: including the language you use.

Language is literally the sword of the prosecutor. It is the only real weapon they wield. Even evidence only supports their choice of language.

I don't know. I have watched a closing argument where the prosecution held up the white blouse of the victim. I could only tell it was white from one patch that wasn't a dark rust color from all the oxidized blood of the murder.

Holding that shirt up roasted the 17 year old on trial.

Language is very important I agree, but I don't think it is the only weapon.

eqtworld: I wish I had a compound and multiple 14 year old girls to f*ck

:(

/that guy was big pimpin for real

Agreed. That is the sort of lifestyle God wants for the righteous.

hairywoogit: Oznog, did you ever watch the original interview? It actually made me very angry with the interviewer. Admittedly, the women being interviewed creeped me out something awful, but freedom of religion also has to cover the creepy folks, as long as they don't break specific laws.

Oh, and entirely my fault, Livingroom. I crossed wires in my head, and thought he was Warren Jeffs for some reason. Isn't Tony Alamo one of the basic Christian nutballs, as opposed to the Mormon variety?

Yeah I saw the original interview.

I thought she asked some needed questions. The women appear deluded and forced, she was hoping to find a crack to pry open.

The women were not accused of anything, she was trying to get inside them for their own good.

I would not have been outraged if the interviewer reached over there, grabbed one by the shoulders, and gave her a good hard shake while screaming "WTF WERE YOU THINKING??" But, sadly, it was a tele-interview from a remote site. That can't happen.

Claudia Chafer: Language is very important I agree, but I don't think it is the only weapon.

The way I see it, that shirt only condemns the boy because of the context of the language it is presented with. After all, if it wasn't explained how the boy committed the murder and if it didn't also present other evidence saying the white blouse they held up was so discolored because of the actions of the boy... then it would mean nothing at all. It would simply be an old bloody blouse. Language is the key. Without it, the rest is meaningless because it wouldn't have any context.

jst3p: craxyd: Livingroom: lizardcowgal: Livingroom: these are all bullshiat made up lies by excommunicated members. of course you'll say i'm one of them and all that other ad nauseum crap you farkers on this site like to come up with, but they are lies. there was no polygamy. there was no underage marriage. there was no "COMPOUND" the f*cking place doesnt have any fences or guard towers. wake up you farkwit retards and do some research before you just decide on this- because where you spend eternity will depend on it

I think you're a troll, I really really really do hope you're a troll.

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.


Um, isn't for a jury to decide whether he's guilty or innocent?

No, a jury decides if he is found guilty or not guilty. A subtle but important difference.


You're right, my mistake in choosing the wrong wording. Guilty or not guilty

Oznog: The women were not accused of anything, she was trying to get inside them for their own good.

OMG!! *FAP*

haha... seriously though. Why are women not charged for polygamy. Isn't it just as wrong to marry a guy who has another wife as it is for the guy? Or maybe they are charged (I honestly have no idea if they are, I've just never heard of that happening).

hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

As I recall, many if not most females have reach sexual maturity about age 14. Once a person reaches sexual maturity, they are biologically an adult. He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

Two million years of evolution can't be wrong.

JohnnyC: Claudia Chafer: Language is very important I agree, but I don't think it is the only weapon.

The way I see it, that shirt only condemns the boy because of the context of the language it is presented with. After all, if it wasn't explained how the boy committed the murder and if it didn't also present other evidence saying the white blouse they held up was so discolored because of the actions of the boy... then it would mean nothing at all. It would simply be an old bloody blouse. Language is the key. Without it, the rest is meaningless because it wouldn't have any context.

I agree with you. I think language is also key but it has to accompany other pieces of evidence or it is just a good story, hence it isn't the only tool.

Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

I hear she looks ten and a half though.

ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

tinfoil-hat maggie: To be fair "polygamy," "cult" and "compound" are loaded words. Couldn't one use"open marriage", "alternative religion", and "sacred ground"?

They do engage in polygamy, that word is fine. I do agree the other two are biased and shouldn't be used.

Theaetetus: If the state can't convict him without using prejudicial words, then he deserves to go free.
If they're trying to prove multiple counts of statutory rape, then that it occurred in a compound, camp, housing project, ranch, or anything else is irrelevant. Same thing with cult. And as for polygamy, unless they're charging him with bigamy, then that's irrelevant, too.

Exactly. It should be about the facts, not about using ugly words.

Oznog: It's not a Compound (slightly NFSW images flashed in there)

It's a ranch, and it's our home.

/the original interview was pretty creepy to begin with

That video was creepy but I just couldn't turn away!

ninjakirby: I'd never heard of this guy, so of course I had to google him...



Thats from a leaflet his ministry produced. Not farking kidding.

Oznog: It's not a Compound (slightly NFSW images flashed in there)

It's a ranch, and it's our home.

Wrong group.

The scary thing is that those sunglasses are back in style. We are currently reliving the 1980s.

Albeit with much shiattier music.

Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

"'Juvenile #1' told me that on May 17, 2000, when she was only about nine years old, she and Alamo exchanged wedding vows," according to a search warrant affidavit (pdf)

The document describes inappropriate touching of "juvenile #1" in Fouke, Ark., by Alamo that began when she was only 8. After their "wedding" when she was 9, Alamo allegedly engaged in conduct with the girl that would constitute rape under Arkansas law."

Loren: I do agree the other two are biased and shouldn't be used.

Compound might be biased, but what Tony Alamo was running was most certainly a cult, and should be called one.

Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

lol - i see what you are doing. Do you live in Hartgen's district?

ninjakirby: Loren: I do agree the other two are biased and shouldn't be used.

Compound might be biased, but what Tony Alamo was running was most certainly a cult, and should be called one.

It doesn't sound like he was running a cult it sounds like it was his personal sex farm. Raise 'em young train 'em young. A cult is where your sneakers and jumpsuits match when you off yourself with the kool-aid.

ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

"'Juvenile #1' told me that on May 17, 2000, when she was only about nine years old, she and Alamo exchanged wedding vows," according to a search warrant affidavit (pdf)

The document describes inappropriate touching of "juvenile #1" in Fouke, Ark., by Alamo that began when she was only 8. After their "wedding" when she was 9, Alamo allegedly engaged in conduct with the girl that would constitute rape under Arkansas law."

Well Duh she was not his sister, I she would have been Then the sex would have been OK.

walnuts55: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

"'Juvenile #1' told me that on May 17, 2000, when she was only about nine years old, she and Alamo exchanged wedding vows," according to a search warrant affidavit (pdf)

The document describes inappropriate touching of "juvenile #1" in Fouke, Ark., by Alamo that began when she was only 8. After their "wedding" when she was 9, Alamo allegedly engaged in conduct with the girl that would constitute rape under Arkansas law."

Well Duh she was not his sister, If she would have been Then the sex would have been OK.

My ex is a preacher's son. He was telling me that when he was little, he would imitate his dad's lessons after church.
He said that one day they had a baptism. So naturally, he had to copy what he saw. He said he got his puppy and a bucket, and then said, "In the name of the Father, the Son, and in the hole you go".

His dad would qualify as a cult leader regardless of what definition you use, but I still think that story was cute.

walnuts55: walnuts55: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

"'Juvenile #1' told me that on May 17, 2000, when she was only about nine years old, she and Alamo exchanged wedding vows," according to a search warrant affidavit (pdf)

The document describes inappropriate touching of "juvenile #1" in Fouke, Ark., by Alamo that began when she was only 8. After their "wedding" when she was 9, Alamo allegedly engaged in conduct with the girl that would constitute rape under Arkansas law."

Well Duh she was not his sister, If she would have been Then the sex would have been OK.

You sir are a sick, sick man and I raise my beer in salute to you.

Religion - cult, compound - house... one thing about which there can be no doubt, he's got a biatchin' ass logo!



That's like a pimp chalice for the Lord!

technicolor-misfit: Religion - cult, compound - house... one thing about which there can be no doubt, he's got a biatchin' ass logo!



That's like a pimp chalice for the Lord!

Is that for real? If so someone has some huge cojones ego

Kumana Wanalaia: Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

There is no god. Like it or lump it.

Feel free to GTFO, because no one else is going to.

That's the way it is, kiddo.

Prove it.

UnspokenVoice: "Prove it."

Science doesn't work that way. You cannot prove a negative, you can only supplant one theory/hypothesis with one which is better supported by the evidence and which offers superior predictive power.

Can you prove Santa Claus doesn't exist? Of course not. Yet I would hope we can agree that it's quite reasonable to lack belief in him. Why is that? How do you justify not believing in Santa when you cannot prove he doesn't exist?

ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: ninjakirby: Steve_Hartgen: He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

One of his 'wives' is alleged to be 9 years old.

Did he bang that one?

"'Juvenile #1' told me that on May 17, 2000, when she was only about nine years old, she and Alamo exchanged wedding vows," according to a search warrant affidavit (pdf)

The document describes inappropriate touching of "juvenile #1" in Fouke, Ark., by Alamo that began when she was only 8. After their "wedding" when she was 9, Alamo allegedly engaged in conduct with the girl that would constitute rape under Arkansas law."

Okay, but how hard do you have to bang someone for it to qualify as rape under Arkansas law?

I know where I'm going when I die. I'm donating my corpse to medical science and research. I want to do something useful with me. Burials are such a waste. As far as my mind or soul, it will simply stop functioning and I will be no more. And I'm okay with this. Such is the natural cycle of life. To spend your time chasing fantasies and myths is beyond me. Get off your arse and contribute to society. A lot of us stopped playing make belive a long time ago. And you should to.

Your Faith is Creepy: Livingroom: what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

So if he's convicted, does that mean god wants Tony Alamo to spend the rest of his life in PMITA prison? And what kind of god would want that for one of his servants?

Hey now. One god one vote, buddy.

so where is islam on trial?

Your Faith is Creepy: Livingroom: what's more you will see this man exonerated if i have to sponsor the link to get it on the main page myself.

So if he's convicted, does that mean god wants Tony Alamo to spend the rest of his life in PMITA prison? And what kind of god would want that for one of his servants?

Read up on what he did to Job.

And he liked that farker.

Theaetetus: hairywoogit:
To clarify, I agree with you. Pedophilia isn't illegal, acting on pedophilia is.

Yeah, but my point is that "pedophile" is (a) not a crime, (b) a loaded word sure to get a conviction no matter what he's charged with, from buggering kids all the way to shooting JFK, and (c) irrelevant, because non-pedophiles can bugger kids, too.

This is such an odd viewpoint, yet guaranteed to bring out a lot of sympathy on the internet.

I hope everyone agrees that acting on pedophilia includes possessing or creating child porn or attempting to reinforce in society that pedophilia is normal or OK.

The claim of thoughtcrime is bullshiat. What goes on in your head is not always without consequence. As soon as you express it, you're behaving in a certain way that a healthy society rejects.

My most obvious point is that children are just like us, except vulnerable to manipulation of all kinds. Extra protections afforded to them are not unreasonable and one of those is the rejection of pedophilia by society.

It's not OK to be a pedophile. Any argument that it is had best include the recognition that the pedophile in question is damaged in ways that violate what is acceptable in society.

You can live your life any way you goddamn want. I'm among the first to say be a skeptic and resist authority. But don't shiat where you farking eat. Don't alter society in such a way that can hurt your children.

Miss Stein: gorgor: Bucky Katt: I wonder what code word they want to use for statutory rape.

Church-sanctioned

FIFY

That will work :)

I almost forgot to add: buggering kids does indeed make you a pedophile.

Steve_Hartgen: hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

As I recall, many if not most females have reach sexual maturity about age 14. Once a person reaches sexual maturity, they are biologically an adult. He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

Two million years of evolution can't be wrong.

Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia. Admittedly the age of consent is best set around 16 with situations like a couple of 14 year olds getting caught having sex better dealt with quietly than criminally.

The laws governing underage sex recognise that a large age gap usually indicates manipulation on the part of the older party. Prior to becoming an adult it's very hard for most kids to say no, or even understand to say no to someone older regardless of what they want. Pedophiles generally recognise that if they ask a kid for sex they're probably going to get it. That makes it like not asking at all but simply taking. That's why sex with someone under the age of consent is statutory rape.

Zamboro: UnspokenVoice: "Prove it."

Science doesn't work that way. You cannot prove a negative, you can only supplant one theory/hypothesis with one which is better supported by the evidence and which offers superior predictive power.

Can you prove Santa Claus doesn't exist? Of course not.

bullshiat. of course you can prove santa doesnt exsist, it's been done: Link (new window)

Retort: Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia.

No it isn't. Before you correct someone else maybe you should look up the facts, you have internet access so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Livingroom: bullshiat. of course you can prove santa doesnt exsist, it's been done: Link (new window

That just proves Santa couldn't exist without the help of his magical elves.

Livingroom: "bullshiat. of course you can prove santa doesnt exsist, it's been done:"

There are similar 'disproofs' of the Christian god that Christians reject, explaining it away via the supernatural. I might take the same approach, claiming that Santa's supernatural properties make possible everything that fellow claims is impossible.

Nothing can travel that fast? Only within the natural universe. Being supernatural Santa can travel outside of the universe.

No workshop at the North Pole? It exists in a supernatural dimension where no scientific equipment can detect it.

If people were as emotionally invested in Santa Claus as they are in God, and if a religion had formed around him, you'd hear these apologetic arguments and plenty more like them. You'd be accused of logical positivism and tremendous arrogance for declaring your nonbelief in Santa. Agnostics would insist that you cannot make such a claim as you cannot know such a thing, and so on.

tinfoil-hat maggie - technicolor-misfit: Religion - cult, compound - house... one thing about which there can be no doubt, he's got a biatchin' ass logo!

That's like a pimp chalice for the Lord!


Is that for real? If so someone has some huge cojones ego


Indeed it is...

http://alamoministries.com (new window)

jst3p: Retort: Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia.

No it isn't. Before you correct someone else maybe you should look up the facts, you have internet access so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Sadly it appears that sex with children is indeed the act of pedophilia. Get back under your bridge, take your waste of a post with you.

Moriah: This reminds me of the controversy over using the word "rape" in a trial when you're prosecuting a rape. So what do you call it? Surprise sex?


Fun for one?
/Lord I apologize..

Retort: jst3p: Retort: Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia.

No it isn't. Before you correct someone else maybe you should look up the facts, you have internet access so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Sadly it appears that sex with children is indeed the act of pedophilia. Get back under your bridge, take your waste of a post with you.

Hmm...

Lets start a game of twenty questions.

Theme: What is wrong with your post

Dallymo: Phil McKraken: TEXARKANA, Ark. - ... Tony Alamo (uh-LAH'-moh)

Notice the pronunciation guide. That's Texarkana, Arkansas. What a shiathole.

It's pronounced "Oz-WEE-pay"!

Classic! No one ever remembers that when I try to quote it at them.

Retort: jst3p: Retort: Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia.

No it isn't. Before you correct someone else maybe you should look up the facts, you have internet access so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Sadly it appears that sex with children is indeed the act of pedophilia. Get back under your bridge, take your waste of a post with you.

No, attraction to pre-pubescent persons is paedophilia. Sex with someone younger that the age of consent is statutory rape. It is possible to commit statutory rape of a person who is younger than the age of consent without being a paedophile if that person is not pre-pubescent.

In my Boobies I recommended you look up the word, advice you obviously didn't take. You only looked ignorant then, now you look ignorant, arrogant and foolish. Congrats!

I was pwnd by the filter, he was owned by his stupidity. I can live with that.

Miss Stein: pjspaws:
But, but... I don't wanna go to mormon heaven.

No shiat. My idea of "outer darkness" (Mormon-speak for hell) is spending eternity as Wife #43 of a so-called priesthood holder, bearing his spirit-children to populate his personal planet that revolves around the star Kolob.

/sooner take the real eternal darkness anyday

You sound like you need a hug.

technicolor-misfit: tinfoil-hat maggie - technicolor-misfit: Religion - cult, compound - house... one thing about which there can be no doubt, he's got a biatchin' ass logo!

That's like a pimp chalice for the Lord!


Is that for real? If so someone has some huge cojones ego


Indeed it is...

http://alamoministries.com (new window)

Oh wow, I'm scared now. He's trying to spread his douchbaggery to multiple countries.
/Truth be told anyone convicted of what this guy is accused of should never see daylight/or children again.

tinfoil-hat maggie: Ringshadow: Livingroom:

Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

If God is angered by our petty arguments about a man in trouble with the law, then he is not truly a god.

/unknown is unknowable
//been reading about taoism

Toasism is a good start. I myself love Heinlein's "Job: A Comedy of Justice"

Hm... I'm gonna have to keep this one a though-crime... paper-cuts just aren't my thing, but yeah. Heinlein's nailed it often.

Steve_Hartgen: hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

As I recall, many if not most females have reach sexual maturity about age 14. Once a person reaches sexual maturity, they are biologically an adult. He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

Two million years of evolution can't be wrong.

Isn't that exactly what a pedophile would say? Do you handle P.R. for NAMBLA, too? Or do you not believe in equal opportunity?

Retort: Steve_Hartgen: hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

As I recall, many if not most females have reach sexual maturity about age 14. Once a person reaches sexual maturity, they are biologically an adult. He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

Two million years of evolution can't be wrong.

Unfortunately for your post, sex with someone younger than the age of consent is pedophilia. Admittedly the age of consent is best set around 16 with situations like a couple of 14 year olds getting caught having sex better dealt with quietly than criminally.

The laws governing underage sex recognise that a large age gap usually indicates manipulation on the part of the older party. Prior to becoming an adult it's very hard for most kids to say no, or even understand to say no to someone older regardless of what they want. Pedophiles generally recognise that if they ask a kid for sex they're probably going to get it. That makes it like not asking at all but simply taking. That's why sex with someone under the age of consent is statutory rape.

First off all... I had sex when I was 14 with an older person. Never felt bad about it. Never regretted it. There were laws against it, but so what. Just another victimless crime.

I do drugs. It's illegal, but it's not immoral. Something can be both right and illegal. Like porking a 14 year old. I can get away with buying and consuming narcotics. I'd totally bone a 14yo if I could get away with it (consensual of course - rape ain't my bag). Teenagers want to fark. Some want to fark other 14yo adults. Some want to fark 40+yo adults. Parents need to treat their teens like adults instead of babies, and let them get out in the world and grow up.

Tony Baloney: Steve_Hartgen: hairywoogit: Really... call him what he really is... a pedophile.

As I recall, many if not most females have reach sexual maturity about age 14. Once a person reaches sexual maturity, they are biologically an adult. He had sex with young women. That's not called pedophilia. It's called acting naturally.

Two million years of evolution can't be wrong.

Isn't that exactly what a pedophile would say? Do you handle P.R. for NAMBLA, too? Or do you not believe in equal opportunity?

The guys in NAMBLA are warped, even for pederasts.

I'll stick to the pubescing ladies, thank you very much.

Kumana Wanalaia: Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

There is no god. Like it or lump it.

Feel free to GTFO, because no one else is going to.

That's the way it is, kiddo.

Well, yeah, but what if there WAS? Wouldn't you feel like a big dummy then? Huh?

/must go, have to sacrifice a couple of tourists to Kali on the Cajon Pass.

I guess someone doesn't like Idaho Rep. Steve Hartgen's proposal that users be forced to use their real names online....

Did I get the right Tony?

technicolor-misfit: I guess someone doesn't like Idaho Rep. Steve Hartgen's proposal that users be forced to use their real names online....

Thanks for helping me catch that joke I can be slow sometimes.

Silliness. The definition of "polygamy" either fits what the man is accused of doing or it doesnt. If it does then there should be no limitation on using the word.

"Cult" is, I suppose, a bit biased. In common use it basically means anybody else's religion. However, I would argue that all religions are cults. The word "cult" should either a) be used to describe every religion, every time a religion is discussed in court, or b) should not be used in court at all.

"Compound" is a bit vague but I would argue for its continued use in court cases only if a specific legal definition was created. For example, is a compound 1 building, 5?, 10? Must it have a fence, etc.. Define it specifically for legal cases, then apply it when appropriate.

hairywoogit: CNN was doing a 24 hour reel on how evil polygamy was, and how awful its members were, despite the fact that most of the folks they interviewed were just fine with the system, and not really bad neighbors to boot. They had to SEARCH for the baddies. Frankly, there are baddies in every religious stripe, simply because people suck. That doesn't mean the religion or belief system inherently sucks, only that the people who practice it do.

The victims (pedophilia aside) are the young men they cast out in order to keep whatever male:female ratio they maintain.

There was a whole documentary about them on CBC up here a while back. This one group basically used the young men as labour on their farms and logging operations then cast them out when they turned 18 or 20, but kept all of the young women obviously. They wander out into the world with very twisted views and little education to get by on. They spent their entire youths working the land and had only basic reading and writing skills.

wow.

I was going to get the popcorn for this thread but perhaps I'll get some anti-crazy innoculations instead.

The defense of this so called "man of god" is just a little too knee-jerk to me. The same as it was in the church I attended as a teenager when they refused to believe any evidence against a youth group helper who led on and dated a couple of the youth girls in secret.

/I saw through the bullshiat before it did me too much harm.

UnspokenVoice: Kumana Wanalaia: Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

There is no god. Like it or lump it.

Feel free to GTFO, because no one else is going to.

That's the way it is, kiddo.

Prove it.

Make me.

Zamboro: UnspokenVoice: "Prove it."

Science doesn't work that way. You cannot prove a negative, you can only supplant one theory/hypothesis with one which is better supported by the evidence and which offers superior predictive power.

Can you prove Santa Claus doesn't exist? Of course not. Yet I would hope we can agree that it's quite reasonable to lack belief in him. Why is that? How do you justify not believing in Santa when you cannot prove he doesn't exist?

Oh I just figured I'd toss it out there for amusement purposes. This is fark, if you say it is daylight outside someone will come along and say that they need a citation.

By the way, it is dark outside.

Kumana Wanalaia: UnspokenVoice: Kumana Wanalaia: Livingroom: Not a troll. That's the way it is, boys an girls. Like it or leave it this man is innocent and when you call him names it makes God angry at you.

There is no god. Like it or lump it.

Feel free to GTFO, because no one else is going to.

That's the way it is, kiddo.

Prove it.

Make me.

No, you are.