Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

Eh, it's nice to encourage soldiers to be healthy, but as this is not something that will significantly effect the performance of their job (as alcohol could) congress can go EABOD on this one.

Military regulations should be designed to improve the performance of the military, and lung cancer won't get you 'till long after you've retired from combat duty (statistically). Regulating further is a waste of time and taxpayer money... a loss of productivity in the civilian government that probably makes the 846 million look like small change.

As for later health-care costs... fark you. We take care of our soldiers after they're back, that's part of the deal, you congressional dipshiats. This includes problems stemming from bad habits.

merreborn: I'm with the "let 'em smoke" sentiment, but if the government is going to have to cover the cost of healthcare for these guys, it seems a bit stupid for them to also pay to ship in cigs.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

You can smoke all you want... as long as you foot the bill yourself when your blackened, shriveled lungs give out on you.

Yeah, but dude, these guys volunteered to risk their lives every day for America and we get all stingy on them? And also, as I mentioned above, you are concerned about the small price of cigarettes for the troops compared to the war costs and often lifelong medical care for wounded troops? Hell, if you really want to save money get us out of the war.

Well this probably explains why the US military can't beat a bunch of third world farmers.

It's kind of ridiculous to consider yourself to be a big tough soldier if you can't do something like give up cigarettes.

I'm more worried how all those retirees with 20+ years of service who will be pissed they can't get their cartons of Basic 100s tax free anymore. My dad was one and they take stuff like that very seriously. You should have seen how pissed he was when they raised the price on a suitcase of Old Milwaukee from $7.99 to $8.99 at the Class VI store.

mr lawson: /1371 as well

Combat rocks represent. Unfortunately our mos is rapidly becoming working party of the marine corps. I am not sure if hqmc has figured out why they have so much trouble retaining 71s aftr their first tour.

Got to iraq, our first couple weeks were spent building furniture for various higher ups. Combat Ikea for the win.

Yes Sound: Combat Ikea for the win

That is all kinds of funny right there.
/been out now 10 years

This has already started...if you are part of the Medical Community you are no longer allowed to smoke in uniform. I'm a Submarine SONAR tech that is currently a Drug and Alcohol counselor and since we belong to the hospital, that applies to us too. Something about not leading a healthy lifestyle while in a health-care role.

Mind you that the Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut at the hospital is still open and the bar flows freely at the Navy/Corpsman Ball(s).

(this doesn't really apply to me as I only smoke Cigars but still seems heavy handed)

LamOtter: Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

LamOtter: Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

actually, there's quite a trend of quitting smoking going on in the Army, at least from what i've seen. downrange or back here in garrison doesn't seem to change much except the details of it. we have less smokers than non-smokers now and this seems to be the case even in the infantry division. not sure if it's the rising cost of smoking, the rising awareness of the damages it causes, or the rapidly growing and spreading popularity and significantly greater convenience of living a healthy lifestyle. the Army hands out Wellbutrin like candy to soldiers interested in quitting, and there's also many PTSD'ed soldiers getting on it for reasons of mental health that suddenly lose the desire to smoke(which is what happened to me, actually).
but those who still wish to smoke should be allowed to, imo

This is absolute bullsheit.
The Christian Taliban has got to go.

What I want to know is:
How can you people sleep at night knowing that the soldiers risking their very existance to keep your bed warm are denied simple pleasures and treated like sheit upon their return by the very asshats that created the conflict in the first place?
How is this possible?

mr lawson: Yes Sound: Combat Ikea for the win

That is all kinds of funny right there.
/been out now 10 years

Oh boy more war stories.

Yeah there's nothing like listening to arrested adolescents that never got over the desire to play cowboys and indians.

Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country,

Really? how many US soldiers are from Iraq?

Fine. You want to play the "I pay for your health care card" with guys who are out in harms way for you? They can take a bullet or bomb to the face, but no smoking? Don't even get me started on the fact that some 18 year old kid can get his life prematurely ended before he's even legally able to buy a 6 pack of beer. How farked up is that? He's mature enough to make the choice to potentially die in service to the country, but not enough to legally get buzzed...

Ok, with my rant out of the way, here's my suggestion. Lets up the ante. Let's make the entire Federal Gov't smoke free, including all elected officials. After all they volunteer for service too don't they? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I believe my taxes are paying for at least part if not all of their health insurance.

Might as well make it mandatory for any special interest groups/contractors too. They have some sort of financial dealings with the US Gov't, and we wouldn't want to set a bad example by supporting anyone with that nasty habit now would we?


/Not a smoker
//Believes in personal responsibility

Bob16: Oh boy more war stories.

Yeah there's nothing like listening to arrested adolescents that never got over the desire to play cowboys and indians.

If you ask nicely and are qualified, I'll bet they will let you play too, no need to be envious.

/give up, you are trying too hard, a good troll requires finess.

Bob16: Well this probably explains why the US military can't beat a bunch of third world farmers.

It's kind of ridiculous to consider yourself to be a big tough soldier if you can't do something like give up cigarettes.

aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

bunch of socialists with their socialized health care.

Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

Let 'em have booze, smokes, and hookers.

Nowhereman: Really? how many US soldiers are from Iraq?

A few, but the real root of the dieing for their country clause is that the government of the troops country sent them to war, and the whole point of a military is that it serves the politicians who serve the people. So if you feel the war in iraq is not a good use of your military, tell your employees that you elected, to get the troops out. For better or worse, the troops are dieing in Iraq and afghanistan because that is where their country sent them.

This will put the military in peril because instead of IEDs, the enemy will just plant packs of cycnide laced smokes around and the jonesing GIs will be eager to pick them up.

Yes Sound: If you ask nicely and are qualified, I'll bet they will let you play too, no need to be envious.

Nah...he would just pop of his finger with a cap.

Here, though, is great vid of a micklick going off:-) (new window)

/love the shcokwave!

Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

izen: aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

Hey brother, dont feed the troll.

This is just all part of the liberal control machine. Alot of Farkers agree with most control, but where does it end? Think of all the things you are not allowed to do/own now as opposed to even 10 years ago. Liberals are all about controlling every single action you do as long as it is their agenda. Smoking, what's next, playing poker? Emailing home? Masturbating? You call me a troll because I am pissed about the sissy car laws, how would you like it if they took away Palin bashing or Bush jokes or $4.00 a bottle Farker she-man beer?

izen: Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

Well i suppose some of them were already in the service before the war started so they are not quite as stupid as the total assholes that knew there was no WMDs and still joined. Now thats quality stupid there.

Hey maybe you could bottle some of that ignorance. Seems like it would be a pretty powerful weapon.

You people getting indignant about rights and fairness must not have heard that they just implemented some pretty harsh legislation here for civilians. All flavored cigarettes (even natural flavors) now banned...........except menthol.

It's pretty widely agreed this just protectionism on behalf of domestic tobacco megaproducers since they don't make djarums. Indonesia is pretty pissed as are people who enjoy high quality tobacco and natural cloves, or people who just see the basic unfairness of it all.

BTW the law, which delegates to the FDA the ability to regulate tobacco additives, explicitly keeps them from allowing cloves or banning menthol. But pesticide residue is explicitly allowed in cigarettes.

Thunderpipes: Liberals are all about controlling every single action you do as long as it is their agenda.

Your not gonna make it that easy are ya ?

"People need to watch what they say" - Ari Fleischer Bush admin press secretary

Tragic picture. A new generation learning how to become a nicotine addict.

Godscrack: Tragic picture. A new generation learning how to become a nicotine addict.

You talking about the Soldier or the Iraqi, because the kid with all the squiggles and dots in his name probably smokes more that the kid in the funny green outfit,

/caption:puff puff pass maaafrkka

Bob16: izen: Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

Well i suppose some of them were already in the service before the war started so they are not quite as stupid as the total assholes that knew there was no WMDs and still joined. Now thats quality stupid there.

Hey maybe you could bottle some of that ignorance. Seems like it would be a pretty powerful weapon.

actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Not only is taking away their smokes a really bad idea, they need to give these bastards the occasional beer. They deserve it.

Plus, the terrorists have are taking advantage of the American soldier's weakness for beer ...

Yes Sound: izen: aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

Hey brother, dont feed the troll.

Well you guys are big and tough. Seems like you ought to have no problem dealing with a liberal like me.

/ wouldn't be surprised if you are so scared of the pixels on your monitor you resort to the ignore function.

Wow, sometimes I really hate my country...

OgreMagi: Not only is taking away their smokes a really bad idea, they need to give these bastards the occasional beer. They deserve it.

Plus, the terrorists have are taking advantage of the American soldier's weakness for beer ...

awesome.
and they do give soldiers beer, but only once a tour if at all. i got lucky and got beer both tours, each time only two at the same time and it was highly regulated and monitored (no sharing, etc). there's been other threads that talked about this. i love me some drinking, i'm even drunk right now, but alcohol downrange is a BAD idea.

Tietsu: Wow, sometimes I really hate my country...

you're from Iraq?

izen: actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Nope.

Your showing that you don't take yourself that seriously.

My hats off to you.

Let me see if I've got this: We should discourage servicemen from smoking because it's bad for their health? Um, okay.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Let me see if I've got this: We should discourage servicemen from smoking because it's bad for their health? Um, okay.

+1

Bob16: izen: actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Nope.

Your showing that you don't take yourself that seriously.

My hats off to you.

i appreciate that. seriously.
i'm not ashamed of anything i did or saw over there, despite the lack of any good reason for the US to even be there.
besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Ok, let me get this straight...our guys/girls are coming home in body bags or with arms and legs missing, and the Pentagon has a problem with CIGARETTES???? Seems to me that IEDs and bullets are a bit more harmful than nicotine.

These inane policies usually come from assbags that have never served outside of regular office hours. You pay these guys slave wages, make them live below the poverty level in cockroach infested hovels, oh and by the way, THEY VOLUNTEER TO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR COUNTRY!! If you're going to make cigarettes illegal, make them illegal. Otherwise, find another way to justify your existence.

mediablitz:
Uh, whenTF did the U.S. military and the Pentagon become "the leftists"? The MILITARY asked for this study. The PENTAGON is making the recommendation.

You might note that "the Pentagon" is under civilian control. And that "the military" people doing the speaking were civilians, who were put there by (ta-daah!) the current administration, or loaded into the VA by political pressure over the last couple of years.

Up until this final report, the committee was fairly noncontroversial about their recommendations, sticking with "we should encourage soldiers to stop smoking, and make it harder to start smoking." Now, we get 20 year plans (or ten, or less - give it a couple of months and it'll be "by next year...")

Seems to me when you there is a possibility you could die today that the possibility of dieing 40 years from now from lung cancer seems pretty insignificant.

"And these children that you spit on, as they try to change their world, are immune to your consultation, because they are quite aware of what they are going through"

"Changes" David Bowie

God farking dammit. Anti-smoking assholes make me want to start smoking.

izen: i appreciate that. seriously.

I'm wasn't paying you a compliment.

I was stating an objective fact.

Any outside observer could see you have a decent attitude. If i would have refused to give you your due i would be the asshole which you are obviously not.

Bob16: izen: i appreciate that. seriously.

I'm wasn't paying you a compliment.

I was stating an objective fact.

Any outside observer could see you have a decent attitude. If i would have refused to give you your due i would be the asshole which you are obviously not.

fair enough. i was just reacting in surprise due to the sudden drastic change from your previous posts.

izen: besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Thats kinda funny. One of Salingers long time themes is that everybody is afraid of being a nobody. I'm not that sure it's such a bad fear if it motivates one to strive for something higher.

Maybe you should look into something like learning a musical instrument if you are looking for feelings of accomplishment. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be good at it.

Bob16: izen: besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Thats kinda funny. One of Salingers long time themes is that everybody is afraid of being a nobody. I'm not that sure it's such a bad fear if it motivates one to strive for something higher.

Maybe you should look into something like learning a musical instrument if you are looking for feelings of accomplishment. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be good at it.

makes sense to me. i would not be remotely surprised if 50% of the worlds greatest inventions/artwork/scientific breakthroughs originated from the inventor/artist/scientist sitting at home dreading the idea of being a nobody.

Actually one of my heros was a soldier from Vietnam.

His name was Hugh Thompson.

Lots of stuff online about him.

Now he was a great american.

Bob16: Actually one of my heros was a soldier from Vietnam.

His name was Hugh Thompson.

Lots of stuff online about him.

Now he was a great american.

holy cow. just Wiki'ed this guy.
just.... wow.... jesus.

this only deepens my love of military pilots. they rate up there with chaplins and, well.... i was gonna say medics, but that's what i am, so....

I don't care if you never had a smoke in you're life, if there's people shooting at you constantly, and you're offered a cigarette, you're probably going to smoke it if it won't compromise your position. How about we leave this decision to those people who are willing to get shot at and only let vote those people who have had to keep their heads down.