ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

These people are adults. They can operate machine guns, tanks, helicopters, fighter jets, long ramge bombers, ICBMs and nuclear submarines.

They can handle a farking cigarette, OK!?

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Nope. we live in a puritan, intolerant culture. We put those men and women in a situation where they might have to kill someone, or where they might be killed themselves. But we don't want to let them smoke.

Think about that for a moment. Society is just fine with soldiers out there in danger...but letting them smoke gets people upset. the mind set required for that sort of slobbering idiocy is staggering.

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

I see we're done here.

I say we do it all at once rather than phasing it in, wait four days, then invade Europe. We couldn't lose.

PainInTheASP: I say we do it all at once rather than phasing it in, wait four days, then invade Europe. We couldn't lose.

We'll lose the moment Europeans offer our troops smokes and the whole army defects.

/What a retarded idea
//the idea in the article, not yours PainInTheASP

We're fine with sending them to be shot at, get bombed, stabbed, and run through hell holes of smoke, ash, and fire, and on occasion, act as guinea pigs for some REMF for medical experimentation, but not so great with smoking?

Some folks need some goddamn perspective.

I Said: PainInTheASP: I say we do it all at once rather than phasing it in, wait four days, then invade Europe. We couldn't lose.

We'll lose the moment Europeans offer our troops smokes and the whole army defects.

/What a retarded idea
//the idea in the article, not yours PainInTheASP

I respectfully disagree--my idea is incredibly retarded.

I wish Obama would smoke during press conferences.

So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

Let them smoke, for crying out loud, they're dealing with inhuman pressure almost every single day and a cigarette is much less likely to kill them immediately than a sudden mortar attack or an IED.

I quit smoking seven years ago, but if I enlisted and was sent to Afghanistan, I guarantee I'd be smoking again in less than a month. Sometimes, you just need a smoke.

Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

This too. I'm positive that, all things considered, an American cigarette is a hell of a lot safer than local smokes, so letting them buy a pack of Marlboros at a PX is going to be a lot better for them than buying a pack of local smokes that probably use camel shiat as a filler ingredient. Besides, look at this guy:



That right there is a guy who EARNED his goddamn cigarette.

TheGreatZarquon: Let them smoke, for crying out loud, they're dealing with inhuman pressure almost every single day and a cigarette is much less likely to kill them immediately than a sudden mortar attack or an IED.

Exactly this.

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20. "We'll certainly be taking that recommendation forward," Smith says.


At the current rate a pack of smokes will cost a thousand bucks in 20 years. Everybody will switch to weed.

TheGreatZarquon: Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

This too. I'm positive that, all things considered, an American cigarette is a hell of a lot safer than local smokes, so letting them buy a pack of Marlboros at a PX is going to be a lot better for them than buying a pack of local smokes that probably use camel shiat as a filler ingredient. Besides, look at this guy:

That right there is a guy who EARNED his goddamn cigarette.



"Up for three days and powered by nicotine and Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew" Donut approves.

TheGreatZarquon: That right there is a guy who EARNED his goddamn cigarette.

No shiat. Cut them some slack.

*sputters*

I have nothing to say about this. Actually, that's inaccurate. I have plenty to say about this, but the asininity of this has left me unable to form an intelligible remark. So I'll just return to my indignant sputtering. It conveys my thoughts equally as well.

*indignant sputtering*

As a philoshoper at work often stated, "Even non-smokers die."

As he took a drag.

So far he has not been proven wrong.

The same people pushing this think all soldiers should be drug tested, but not themselves or any elected officials.
PURE BULLSHIAT!

Sgt Otter: TheGreatZarquon: Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

This too. I'm positive that, all things considered, an American cigarette is a hell of a lot safer than local smokes, so letting them buy a pack of Marlboros at a PX is going to be a lot better for them than buying a pack of local smokes that probably use camel shiat as a filler ingredient. Besides, look at this guy:

That right there is a guy who EARNED his goddamn cigarette.



"Up for three days and powered by nicotine and Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew" Donut approves.

Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew? I had no idea that even existed, how does it compare to American Mountain Dew?

This is a good idea, but as someone who quit for good a month and a half ago, I can assure you that there will be killings.

Sgt Otter: Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew

It as good as the American stuff?

I remember once seeing a story on the Thunderbirds. As they're talking to one of the pilots and he's talking about what good shape they have to be in, another pilot walk across the shot behind him lighting up.

If someone can volunteer to risk their ass, I say we can volunteer to let them have a smoke.

TheGreatZarquon:
Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew? I had no idea that even existed, how does it compare to American Mountain Dew?



It's made with cane sugar and not HFCS, so it's smoother and not as syrupy. It also seems to have a much more potent caffeine kick. But it's not as fizzy. In fact, it seems like it's just about to start going flat. One of the guys who used to work for a grocery store said that he thinks that could be from the very dramatic shift in temperature, as it sits on a cargo pallet in the desert heat waiting to get shipped to the various U.S. bases in Iraq.

Also, the report said, troops worn out by repeated deployments often rely on cigarettes as a "stress reliever."

Let 'em smoke!

Oh wait, I have a better idea -

Bring them home!

Duh.

This idea is stupid, incredibly stupid. I don't like smoking, but I sure as hell won't tell people they can't smoke and in the military especially in those damned dry Moslem countries the soldiers need something to help relax them.

Sgt Otter: , so it's smoother and not as syrupy

Sounds quite tasty. And more of a caffeine kick? Oh yes, definitely want.

DarkLancelot: This idea is stupid, incredibly stupid. I don't like smoking, but I sure as hell won't tell people they can't smoke and in the military especially in those damned dry Moslem countries the soldiers need something to help relax them.

Killing muslims - totally cool.
Smoking afterwards? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!

hubiestubert: We're fine with sending them to be shot at, get bombed, stabbed, and run through hell holes of smoke, ash, and fire, and on occasion, act as guinea pigs for some REMF for medical experimentation, but not so great with smoking?

Some folks need some goddamn perspective.

Reminds me of the quote: "We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fark" on their airplanes. Why? Because it's obscene!"

Sgt Otter: It's made with cane sugar and not HFCS, so it's smoother and not as syrupy.

So does the Mt Dew I am drinking right now..

Mt Dew Throwback FTW!!!!!

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

So...they can't have the gay sex or light up? That's retarded.

If im not allowed to smoke, then some soldier being paid with my tax dollars (earned from my cigs) sure as hell cant either.

freedom isent FREE

If they want them to quit, then help them quit AFTER their service. Otherwise:



Leave the cigarettes alone!

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

wage0048: Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

Irrelevant. If the person is unfit they are in trouble, regardless of why they are unfit.

Fitness standards /= "you can not smoke"

BlorfMaster: freedom isent FREE

But an education is priceless.

gopher321: hubiestubert: We're fine with sending them to be shot at, get bombed, stabbed, and run through hell holes of smoke, ash, and fire, and on occasion, act as guinea pigs for some REMF for medical experimentation, but not so great with smoking?

Some folks need some goddamn perspective.

Reminds me of the quote: "We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fark" on their airplanes. Why? Because it's obscene!"

that was Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now

You know who else discouraged smoking in the military?



/hot

1) Smoking is bad.
2) Its costing the VA lots of money in smoking related costs.
3) The previous two points don't mean fark all when you think about the stress-relief available to persons who smoke who have no other outlet. Why cause additional stress to an already stressful situation. This is bureaucratic bull shiat of the nth degree.

wage0048: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

dude my old room mate in the army smoke about a pack a day and drank a half bottle of vodka. He could still run most people in to the ground smelling of cigarettes and alcohol seeping through pores. Old Pritchette was a beast

Yeah, I'd better go ahead and take your cigs away.


//hot like that Brazilian chick at G8

And we think we're beyound mutiny in this day and age because?

I would so farking mutiny if they made me quit.

Sheeesh. Let em smoke. Gives them some sort of pleasure and relaxing escape.

It is so easy for these politicians to state this sh*t from the safety of Washington. Put this Pentagon Health Official in the middle of Iraq with some guns and IEDs going off and that motherf*cker will choke a b*tch for a grit.

The mind boggles.

I want my Lucky Strikes in my c-rations baby!

About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines

that's really not that bad. and some of that will probably be chew, because lighting a cig in the dark is a no-no.

sounds like some Colonel is trying to do something "groundbreaking" to get his or her star.

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

A thousand times THIS.

So they have no problem sending me, my four other family members in the military, and my brothers and sisters-in-arms to go and die, but they do have a problem with me doing something that may kill me some 50 years from now?

Fark that noise. I am not a child. I decide, not you farking busybodies. I have to pay for your farking breast cancer, for your farking prostate cancer, for your HIV, herpes, diabetes, etc., you suck it the fark up and let me have my damn cigarettes. If I die young I don't eat any more health benefits unlike you farking health wackos that will make my family pay for your dumb ass until you're 95.

Just shut the fark up and go away. I am so sick and tired of you people.

Reading things like this makes me want to punch people.

...and the fight for freedom continues!

wow... that is farking ridiculous. Good luck with that.

well people in the US voted for the people who run the nanny state we now have. Or should I say hired nurse Ratchet.

Considering that we collectively havwage0048: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

And if it comes down to it, you send the solider back to the med tent and they deal with it on an individual basis. Outright banning something from a group of people would not only create a HUGE black market that could be exploited, but would also lead to a set of, as subby put it, 500,000 REALLY angry people...

You're not allowed cigarettes in basic training... this happens everyday, it's nothing new.

Rolled out over 20 YEARS. That's some serious wargharbl from the right over this.

And the whole "the cigarette calms them"? No, the cigarette gives them their fix, like a meth or heroin user. The "calming" is stopping the withdrawls.

They join the military voluntarily. The military doesn't let you drink on the job. It is one of their RULES. If they decide to set a RULE regarding smoking and you don't like it, don't re-up.

Blaming some mythic "librul conspiracy" is for so damn chicken shiat...

These guys are farking dying for their country, getting shot at and blown up and whatever. Let them have their freaking cigarettes.

/smoker

And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.

You can fight for freedom, you just cant have any.

no alcohol + no cigarettes = you can protect Iraq your damn self pentagon asshats.

/rediculous, let em smoke, let em drink.

Sgt Otter: TheGreatZarquon:
Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew? I had no idea that even existed, how does it compare to American Mountain Dew?



It's made with cane sugar and not HFCS, so it's smoother and not as syrupy. It also seems to have a much more potent caffeine kick. But it's not as fizzy. In fact, it seems like it's just about to start going flat. One of the guys who used to work for a grocery store said that he thinks that could be from the very dramatic shift in temperature, as it sits on a cargo pallet in the desert heat waiting to get shipped to the various U.S. bases in Iraq.

Acutally they dont carb it as much because non americans dont favor the high carbing. Plus I find it much much sweeter but better tasting. I usually could only drink 1/2 or 3/4. Plus the cans are 500ml not 550 like the US. With a pull tab top.

When I went through nicotine withdrawal after 3 packs of non-filters a day for over 35 years, I suffered mood swings, fits of age, psycotic reactions---all the wonderful things you see in the movies, except it is real---and it lasts for 90+ days, as opposed to 72 hours for "coke": and "smack" and all that baby-stuff.

To understand what it feels like, first stay awake 48 hours so you feel like sh*t warmed over, then eat about 20 no-doz on an empty stomach, wash it down with plenty of black coffee and then hit about 4 sheets of really bad blotter acid, one after the other every 30 minutes or so.

Then crash for 8 hours, and do it again, about 20 times in all.

Or just smoke a hell of a lot of cigarettes and quit, and you will know why I say: Nicotine is what "smack" wants to be when it grows up.

5290 days of liberation from the slavery of nicotine addiction as of today.

Man On Fire: About 37% of soldiers use tobacco and 36% of Marines

that's really not that bad. and some of that will probably be chew, because lighting a cig in the dark is a no-no.

Those stats are WAY low. In my platoon, an informal survey just came up with 4 non tobacco users. Granted we are deployed, and ussage rates go up, but 90% is a bit higher than 36%. And its both, cigaretts seem to be more popular, but they are forbidden inside and in government vehicles. The whole giving your position away at night does not matter as much anymore. when you have a dozen 30,000lb vehicles with floodlights on every side rolling around, the cherry from a cigarett is the least of your worries.

Alot of you have no idea how the military works.

You only have as much freedom as they give you. You agree to it when you sign up. That's how it works. Try looking up the Uniform Code of Military Justice sometime.

mediablitz: Rolled out over 20 YEARS. That's some serious wargharbl from the right over this.

And the whole "the cigarette calms them"? No, the cigarette gives them their fix, like a meth or heroin user. The "calming" is stopping the withdrawls.

They join the military voluntarily. The military doesn't let you drink on the job. It is one of their RULES. If they decide to set a RULE regarding smoking and you don't like it, don't re-up.

Blaming some mythic "librul conspiracy" is for so damn chicken shiat...

Really? Wow I bet you are a blast at parties

Ban it in the military only after it's banned in the U.S.

Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.


Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

There is a major difference between a military smoking ban and encouraging the troops not to smoke. The first is retarded and the second makes perfect sense.

/nonsmokers run faster longer
//faster soldiers live longer

WhyteRaven74: Sgt Otter: Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew

It as good as the American stuff?

Better.

Teem ftw

busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.


Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Let me get this straight. We're looking for 18-yr oldd to join an all-volunteer army who are not allowed to drink or smoke but can operate some of the most technologically advanced equipment in the world and die for their country? What sort of farking hypocrasy is this?! If we want them to quit just find the smokers at discharge and give them every means to help them quit-patches, gum, counseling, etc. And for heaven's sake add 3 years to a military ID for drinking age in the US, if these people can die for us I say they should be able to smoke and drink as they damn well please.

/whose brilliant farking idea was this?!
//yeah sequelae to smoking gets costly in old age, but they've at least done something for society in return...

mediablitz: Rolled out over 20 YEARS. That's some serious wargharbl from the right over this.

And the whole "the cigarette calms them"? No, the cigarette gives them their fix, like a meth or heroin user. The "calming" is stopping the withdrawls.

They join the military voluntarily. The military doesn't let you drink on the job. It is one of their RULES. If they decide to set a RULE regarding smoking and you don't like it, don't re-up.

Blaming some mythic "librul conspiracy" is for so damn chicken shiat...

Drinking causes a definite and immediate impairment to your ability to rationally function and think. Smoking does not. Rolling out a smoking ban over 20 years STILL creates a situation where you have a attentional problem for a huge black market to crop up.

We aren't going to be smoke free in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or 500 years you morans. People smoke. Get over it. It's their choice and their life to ruin or rule over.

Live with the fact that people make risky choices with their lives, and leave em the hell alone. The collective stupidity from all sides on this makes me farking sick.

/wish I had a lawn to tell people to GTFO

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: Really? Wow I bet you are a blast at parties

I am. Not sure what has to do with pointing out the obvious.

dipdunk: Let me get this straight. We're looking for 18-yr oldd to join an all-volunteer army who are not allowed to drink or smoke but can operate some of the most technologically advanced equipment in the world and die for their country? What sort of farking hypocrasy is this?! If we want them to quit just find the smokers at discharge and give them every means to help them quit-patches, gum, counseling, etc. And for heaven's sake add 3 years to a military ID for drinking age in the US, if these people can die for us I say they should be able to smoke and drink as they damn well please.

/whose brilliant farking idea was this?!
//yeah sequelae to smoking gets costly in old age, but they've at least done something for society in return...

You know whats awesome. We are the only country that doesnt drink when deployed. On top of that the Saudis, UAE and all them go to Bahrain and get loaded for the weekends. Iraq is not a dry country and never was.

Its all hypocritical bullshiat.

So let me get this straight.



Harmful to your health, not allowed, not yours, you cannot have!



Part of your job description, man up nancy!

mediablitz: Rolled out over 20 YEARS. That's some serious wargharbl from the right over this.

And the whole "the cigarette calms them"? No, the cigarette gives them their fix, like a meth or heroin user. The "calming" is stopping the withdrawls.

They join the military voluntarily. The military doesn't let you drink on the job. It is one of their RULES. If they decide to set a RULE regarding smoking and you don't like it, don't re-up.

Blaming some mythic "librul conspiracy" is for so damn chicken shiat...


You know, nicotine is a depressant (and a stimulant, too, depending on dosage), meaning that it RELAXES you.

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: Acutally they dont carb it as much because non americans dont favor the high carbing. Plus I find it much much sweeter but better tasting. I usually could only drink 1/2 or 3/4. Plus the cans are 500ml not 550 like the US. With a pull tab top.

Drinking one right Now so I am getting a kick out of your replys ect.

It's obvious that the Pentagon just has the health and well being of our nation's soldiers in mind. Smoking is just too hazardous an activity for you.

Now, put down those dangerous cigarettes and get back to being blown up and shot at!

I hope Shinseki was informed about this. I could see this being pushed by the VA and DOD bean counters.

Bio-nic: Live with the fact that people make risky choices with their lives, and leave em the hell alone.

Um, WTF dos that have to do with them VOLUNTEERING to join the service and VOLUNTARILY agreeing to follow the UCMJ and all other rules?

I spent 6 years in the military. I understood there were a lot of things I couldn't do because I was in the military. WHY is this different?

"Drinking causes a definite and immediate impairment to your ability to rationally function and think. Smoking does not. "

Yeah. Uh huh. Nicotine isn't one of the most dangerous addictive drugs on the planet. It doesn't immediately affect heart rate at all.

Make all the risky choices you want when you are a civilian. Join the military? Abide by their rules. Pretty farking simple.

Thunderpipes
busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.


Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.


Right. People are simple. And everything is black and white. Sh*t...I guess you may have a point.... But generalizing everything down to some absolute just gets messy and becomes intellectually dishonest.

/I looked for absolutes and there's absolutely none.

Thunderpipes: And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.

I scream for freedoms as well, but when you have companies colluding to manipulate the market and the side effect is farking the environment, something needs to be done.

It's no secret that we've been able to build cars that get 50MPG and are reliable as hell since at least the early 70's. It's also no secret that the more wasteful the car, the more profitable it is. Their solution for reduced demand of SUVs was to stop making as many lines of cars, and add a few lines of SUVs.

mediablitz:
Rolled out over 20 YEARS. That's some serious wargharbl from the right over this.

...and in a couple of years, when the same leftists decide that the rest of the US could follow the same "over 20 years" program (to save money for their national insurance programs), you'll be fine with it, I'm sure.

Then we'll have Prohibition II, since alcohol does so many horrible things.

We've already got some of the Democrat idiots in California basically trying to blame their budget woes on fat people (pointing out, with lots of assumed-not-proven figures, that overweight Californians "cost" the state about twice the current deficit). How long until they start "phasing in" programs to handle that particular problem?

The military has often been the test bed for various social issues in the US, this is just another in a long list.

I Said: wage0048: Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

Irrelevant. If the person is unfit they are in trouble, regardless of why they are unfit.

Fitness standards /= "you can not smoke"

If you don't like the rules, don't join the military. They tell you what to eat, what to wear, when and where to take a shiat. it should come as no surprise that they tell you whether you can smoke.

Weaver95: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Nope. we live in a puritan, intolerant culture. We put those men and women in a situation where they might have to kill someone, or where they might be killed themselves. But we don't want to let them smoke.

Think about that for a moment. Society is just fine with soldiers out there in danger...but letting them smoke gets people upset. the mind set required for that sort of slobbering idiocy is staggering.

Can't add anything to this.

I think the military should demand every soldier to light up a cigarette and blow the second hand smoke towards the enemy.

Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

One of the guys I send packages to begged for Marlboro smooth. I sent him a carton a few weeks ago. He was so happy, I thought he was going to jump through my computer screen and hug me.

/Marlboro smooth and Zebra cakes. You soldiers are easy to please!

What about "Mecca-Cola"?

/Islam discovers the sell-out
//we are now brothers!

Not amused.

Stackerlee: You know, nicotine is a depressant (and a stimulant, too, depending on dosage), meaning that it RELAXES you.

Tell me how being impaired EITHER WAY is a good thing as it pertains to the military. Also, the link between nicotine and depression is well established. So it is good to put people in high stress situations, then let them take a drug that either stimulates them (as cigarettes usually do) or depress them (as long term usage does)?

It we were talking about meth, no one would bat an eye agreeing they shouldn't be taking it. But somehow saying "cigarettes" instead of nicotine makes it okay.

And quit pretending: People smoke because they are ADDICTED. No one smokes their first cigarette and feels relaxed. Over time, yes, it can be a depressant. But people smoke because nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on the planet.

The first time I ever smoked was in a foxhole in a tiny fob in Afghanistan, I was having trouble staying awake and didn't want to dip like everyone else, so I bummed a cigar off of a warrant officer. Don't inhale, still run fast, still smoke cigars.

ArgusRun: /Marlboro smooth and Zebra cakes. You soldiers are easy to please!

I hope you send him a little BIE, too.
/they deserve it.

Thunderpipes: busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.


Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Gotta be a troll. That's too stupid a statement not to be.

wage0048
I Said: wage0048: Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

Irrelevant. If the person is unfit they are in trouble, regardless of why they are unfit.

Fitness standards /= "you can not smoke"

If you don't like the rules, don't join the military. They tell you what to eat, what to wear, when and where to take a shiat. it should come as no surprise that they tell you whether you can smoke.

That is a true point...but the bottom line is money. And with all the money they save in health costs they can buy half a jet!

It's already happening, depending on where you're stationed. I know a couple of facilities locally that are completely smoke-free (even outside).

And banning cigarettes on Navy ships has been going on for several years now. It's captain's discretion, but I'm a bit surprised it's not happening more in light of what happened aboard the USS George Washington. (Yes, this was lax discipline, which is why the captain was relieved, but it's kind of one of those "why even risk it?" things.)

Overall, though, I think it's probably the wrong time to do this service-wide. Phase it in command-by-command, while units are stateside, and provide plenty of NRT and support. Don't farking do it to folks who are deployed, or are about to deploy.

/they're gonna have to replace the chicklets inside MREs with nicorette

cirby: ...and in a couple of years, when the same leftists

Uh, whenTF did the U.S. military and the Pentagon become "the leftists"? The MILITARY asked for this study. The PENTAGON is making the recommendation.

Why do you hate the military and the Pentagon? Why do you hate the VA?

olddinosaur first stay awake 48 hours so you feel like sh*t warmed over, then eat about 20 no-doz on an empty stomach, wash it down with plenty of black coffee and then hit about 4 sheets of really bad blotter acid, one after the other every 30 minutes or so.

or what we around here like to call "July"

I'd also like to say that soldiers don't deserve the right to smoke any more than anyone else, *everyone* should be able to make that choice for themselves, we are rapidly heading into yet another round of silly assed prohibition, with predictable results.

the new flag of fascism?

Weaver95: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Nope. we live in a puritan, intolerant culture. We put those men and women in a situation where they might have to kill someone, or where they might be killed themselves. But we don't want to let them smoke.

Think about that for a moment. Society is just fine with soldiers out there in danger...but letting them smoke gets people upset. the mind set required for that sort of slobbering idiocy is staggering.

thread over, as far as i'm concerned. there isn't a font size big enough to express my WTF reaction. i quit smoking, i'm glad i did, it's bad for the health and there's second hand smoke, but for serious, LEAVE THE GODAMM SMOKERS ALONE! especially soldiers.
/just got back from second tour in Iraq
//managed to smoke less than a pack over 14 months
///the stress over there is insane, and people you know suddenly die sometimes, so let 'em smoke! man this article has pissed me off.

FTAC:
Any employer that is providing a employee with any portion of health insurance should have the right to ban it, or the right not to offer health insurance to these employees.

Smoking ruins lives, runs up the cost of health care and is a very invasive habit. There is not one benefit to it. It is defnitely a choice, and why should others pay for someone else's choice?


Hey guys, lets totally go party with this cool dude!


This twatwaffle is worried about health insurance costs for active duty soldiers that smoke, while some of these people require million dollar physical therapy for life after they have a few limbs blown off. I need a smoke, oh shi--

When I was in the military, the told me what to wear, how to cut my hair, where I had to sleep, where I had to be, when to wear a hat, what I had to eat, etc. etc.

They hate freedom!

Yeah, smoking is SUCH a freedom issue for the liberty minded rules of the military

mediablitz: Tell me how being impaired EITHER WAY is a good thing as it pertains to the military. Also, the link between nicotine and depression is well established. So it is good to put people in high stress situations, then let them take a drug that either stimulates them (as cigarettes usually do) or depress them (as long term usage does)?

Let me put it this way. When I was in garrison (back chilling out all safe in the rear), a fair bit of my platoon smoked, but most of them were either cutting back signifigantly, or had quit. We were all aware that smoking slows your running down (and we got our dicks run into the dirt every day by our overly motivated leadership) and overall does nothing for your physical fitness and long term health. Now that we are in theater, nobody gives a damn and everyone that had used tobacco at any point is probably dipping and smoking more than they ever have in their life. I dont know why it is, (I have never used the shiat) but I am loath to take it away.

Merkin Muffley: FTAC:
Any employer that is providing a employee with any portion of health insurance should have the right to ban it, or the right not to offer health insurance to these employees.

Smoking ruins lives, runs up the cost of health care and is a very invasive habit. There is not one benefit to it. It is defnitely a choice, and why should others pay for someone else's choice?


Hey guys, lets totally go party with this cool dude!


This twatwaffle is worried about health insurance costs for active duty soldiers that smoke, while some of these people require million dollar physical therapy for life after they have a few limbs blown off. I need a smoke, oh shi--


Oh also, JOINING THE MILITARY WAS A CHOICE.

busy chillin': Thunderpipes
busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.

Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Right. People are simple. And everything is black and white. Sh*t...I guess you may have a point....


No, they don't.

People have freedoms and inalienable rights.

Corporations do not.

/good threadjack, dude!

Scoop84: BIE

You know, the conversation hasn't gone that way yet. I'd feel a little awkward doing it cold.

/Though they would look better cold
//Besides I invited him to a Jets game when he gets back and that would be awkward meeting him
///(Insert joke about how watching the Jets play is torture)

TheGreatZarquon: Sgt Otter: TheGreatZarquon: Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

This too. I'm positive that, all things considered, an American cigarette is a hell of a lot safer than local smokes, so letting them buy a pack of Marlboros at a PX is going to be a lot better for them than buying a pack of local smokes that probably use camel shiat as a filler ingredient. Besides, look at this guy:

That right there is a guy who EARNED his goddamn cigarette.



"Up for three days and powered by nicotine and Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew" Donut approves.

Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew? I had no idea that even existed, how does it compare to American Mountain Dew?

haji soda is okay, except the Diet versions - omfg, disgusting and tasteless. i'm a dr pepper fan to the death but i switched to pepsi in Iraq because it was the closest tasting to the english-labeled kind.
oh, and just because it has Arabic, doesn't mean it's from the country of Saudi Arabia.

ArgusRun: Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

One of the guys I send packages to begged for Marlboro smooth. I sent him a carton a few weeks ago. He was so happy, I thought he was going to jump through my computer screen and hug me.

/Marlboro smooth and Zebra cakes. You soldiers are easy to please!

Too true. A friend of mine had a brother in Iraq(infantry). All he wanted was a disposable camera, copenhagen, phone card, and silly string. I just wanted to cry.

Merkin Muffley: Oh also, JOINING THE MILITARY WAS A CHOICE.

And that is why this will not go through in the near future. Because the more dumb rules like this they make, the fewer choices to enlist potential recruits will make. The recruiters will be the loudes oppostion to this.

Merkin Muffley: Merkin Muffley: FTAC:
Any employer that is providing a employee with any portion of health insurance should have the right to ban it, or the right not to offer health insurance to these employees.

Smoking ruins lives, runs up the cost of health care and is a very invasive habit. There is not one benefit to it. It is defnitely a choice, and why should others pay for someone else's choice?


Hey guys, lets totally go party with this cool dude!


This twatwaffle is worried about health insurance costs for active duty soldiers that smoke, while some of these people require million dollar physical therapy for life after they have a few limbs blown off. I need a smoke, oh shi--


Oh also, JOINING THE MILITARY WAS A CHOICE.

Do I have any choice about obeying smoking bans if I am a civilian? Did I volunteer for that, too? No? Then shut the fark up about choices, because your zealousness leaves me no choice under any circumstances.

Yeah good luck with that.

I smoke because of the military - I was stuck on a ship, it was the only sanity I could get - it was that, or assault on a sr. officer.

The more I think about it, the angrier I get. You're in the line of fire, IED's could go off around any turn, and they're worried about the damage tobacco could do. How about lung damage from sucking in water while shoring up a hatch in a flooded room? Or smoke inhalation for that Lt on the canadian sub - not smoking tobacco really helped that poor farker live a long life.

How about this - a ban on getting blown up by 'insurgents'.

/permission to die, Sgt?

Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

I like the India Kings myself. $1.50 American a pack.

ArgusRun: You know, the conversation hasn't gone that way yet. I'd feel a little awkward doing it cold.

He has not seen an attractive woman in months. That 3 toothed chick who sort of looks like an extra from the rocky horror picture show at the chow hall is looking mighty fine to him right now. You send him pictures of boobies and he will appreciate them.

/knows these things

Lumi
busy chillin': Thunderpipes
busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.

Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Right. People are simple. And everything is black and white. Sh*t...I guess you may have a point....


No, they don't.

People have freedoms and inalienable rights.

Corporations do not.

/good threadjack, dude!


Hmmmmmm....thanks? But I have a feeling you meant to reply to Thunderpipes. Maybe?

/confused

ArgusRun: Scoop84: BIE

You know, the conversation hasn't gone that way yet. I'd feel a little awkward doing it cold.

/Though they would look better cold
//Besides I invited him to a Jets game when he gets back and that would be awkward meeting him
///(Insert joke about how watching the Jets play is torture)

It's so nice of you to send packages, I won't even solicit BIE for myself. Enjoy the Jets game (if that's possible) and send him BIE after, if things go that direction

andygump: Yeah good luck with that.

I smoke because of the military - I was stuck on a ship, it was the only sanity I could get - it was that, or assault on a sr. officer.

The more I think about it, the angrier I get. You're in the line of fire, IED's could go off around any turn, and they're worried about the damage tobacco could do. How about lung damage from sucking in water while shoring up a hatch in a flooded room? Or smoke inhalation for that Lt on the canadian sub - not smoking tobacco really helped that poor farker live a long life.

How about this - a ban on getting blown up by 'insurgents'.

/permission to die, Sgt?

the air is worse than cigarette smoke over there. we were on a base that used to be the big red X on the map for test firing big exploding US weapons so it smelled like sulfur or something on random mornings, the dust was so bad you could stare at the sun without hurting your eyes and the rain caught so much out of the air it made things DIRTIER when it rained, and when the wind was blowing the right direction we were overpowered by the horrid smell of a third-world brick factory which the infantry had to do patrols at and had them bringing back stories of an iraqi family who lived next to the factory and their children's hair was falling out because of it. so really cigarette smoke was healthy in-as-much as it kept as much contaminated air from getting into your lungs.

wage0048: Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

fairly certain soldiers were allowed to smoke in WWII, and we did alright...

Crocodilly_Pontifex: fairly certain soldiers were allowed to smoke in WWII, and we did alright...

Only becaus we "murdered" all those civilians.
/sarcasm.

Cigarettes make you murder civilians

Let them have it, expand programs to help veterans quit when they come back stateside. Let them have it when it most helps them, and give them a hand if they want to quit.

Scoop84: I hope you send him a little BIE, too.
/they deserve it.

a girl i went to highschool with sent her hubby some pretty graphic pics while he was in Fallujiah. one of the weekends he got to talk to her she said " did you show them to your buddies?" and he said no, then she said " Why the hell not?!?"

she sent more, with doubles.

he was the most popular guy in marine arty for a while.

/he smokes
//also had a buddy get turned to pudding 3 feet from him by the pressure wave of an IED.
///my friend was around the corner of a tank.

Gurlugon
Let them have it, expand programs to help veterans quit when they come back stateside. Let them have it when it most helps them, and give them a hand if they want to quit.

Hahahahahaha, a rational...ahahahahaha...well thought out....hahahahahaha...post on Fark...hahahahaha...good stuff. * faints *

; )

Scoop84: Cigarettes make you murder civilians

I know I can't get up in the morning without finding some homeless guy, a prostitute, you know, the dregs of humanity, and killing them.

/they make great ashtrays.
//kidding of course.

wage0048: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

there are so many uninformed and stereotypical statements in this thread, i'm getting a kick out of it. i've seen soldiers run WHILE smoking, do dismounted patrols while smoking, smoke cigarettes before PT tests to HELP them run, and on and on. after our PT run this morning the smokers all stood watching a non-smoker gasping and retching, simply because he was out of shape.
my 70 year old uncle just died after smoking since he was a kid........ he died from arteriosclerosis (from eating too much good fatty southern food) but the x-rays showed his lungs to be as healthy as a non-smoker after SIXTY years of smoking. not every person who lights up gags and hacks and wheezes. geez, try to think with your own mind now and then.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Do I have any choice about obeying smoking bans if I am a civilian? Did I volunteer for that, too? No? Then shut the fark up about choices, because your zealousness leaves me no choice under any circumstances.

You know what? I have always agreed with the sentiment you express. That said, for some reason the guys I ride with object to me using heroin, LSD, alcohol and certain prescription drugs of my preference. No shiat. I am cool with it, so why aren't they?

It honestly pisses me off. I've lived long enough to tell you to get the fark off my lawn too, if the likelihood of survivability inherent in my judgment were to come into question.

For some reason, very few people I complain to about this are sympathetic in the least.

It's a free country, and my choices of substances to use and abuse ought to be mine to make.

Goddamnit.

izen

geez, try to think with your own mind now and then.


Don't tell me what to do!

FTFA: "a federal study that cites rising tobacco use and higher costs for the Pentagon and Department of Veterans Affairs as reasons for the ban"

so there is your preview of Obama-care...ban anything that will raise health care costs...

no cigs
forget about pot legalized
no fattening foods
no alcohol

mediablitz: When I was in the military, the told me what to wear, how to cut my hair, where I had to sleep, where I had to be, when to wear a hat, what I had to eat, etc. etc.

They hate freedom!

Yeah, smoking is SUCH a freedom issue for the liberty minded rules of the military

No one in this thread is denying that the military has the ability to ban smoking. The argument is over whether it is a sound policy. I know you get to feel intelligent and enlightened for being contrarian with everyone else in the thread, but refuting an argument that no one is actually making just makes you look like a dipshiat.

I think they need to practice what they preach before they go around making up silly bans!

It's a few years old but still pisses me off.

Congress exemps themselves from smoking ban (new window)

odisae: ArgusRun: Sgt Otter: So they'll just start buying more of the shiatty Iraqi cigarettes, like packs of Miamis or Aspens. Which probably use fiberglass filler or God knows what else.

/$1 a pack at the Daura Market.

One of the guys I send packages to begged for Marlboro smooth. I sent him a carton a few weeks ago. He was so happy, I thought he was going to jump through my computer screen and hug me.

/Marlboro smooth and Zebra cakes. You soldiers are easy to please!

Too true. A friend of mine had a brother in Iraq(infantry). All he wanted was a disposable camera, copenhagen, phone card, and silly string. I just wanted to cry.

I love it. I know what the silly string is actually for (rests on trip wires without setting them off to detect them), but I still think it's hilarious to imagine all of them in a big silly string fight.

/Miss silly string
//Miss my GI friend more. Smoked for 10 years and caught an IED in Iraq. Let em smoke

busy chillin': izen

geez, try to think with your own mind now and then.


Don't tell me what to do!

see, how hard was that?

An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: TheGreatZarquon:
Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew? I had no idea that even existed, how does it compare to American Mountain Dew?

I don't like it, I think it tastes like a bag of wet sugar. I'm in the underwhelming minority though. Lots of my squids love the stuff.

Bio-nic: We aren't going to be smoke free in 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or 500 years you morans. People smoke. Get over it. It's their choice and their life to ruin or rule over.

Until the Masters and Owners decide it's unprofitable for them to allow you to run your own life and make your own decisions. You might make a bad one that costs them money or cuts productivity...never mind, already happening in some places.

/it sucks, man

wage0048: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

Yeah, whatever. I smoked at bars when I was stateside, like a chimney in Afgahnistan and Iraq, but quit while I was in college. Lighting up a cigarette was one hell of a stress reliever sometimes. As for the PT thing, most guys in the infantry are in better shape than probably 90% of the population, and probably 50-60% smoke regularly. I knew one little guy in my platoon, he could run a 16 minute 30 second 3 mile PFT, and he would keep a couple of cigarettes and a lighter in his sock, so he could light up at the half way point.

As for the rest of it, when the Commander-In-Chief can prove that he isn't smoking anymore, MAYBE his Defense Department will have the moral authority to tell the troops not to smoke. Until then, they can fark off and die.

Urmuf Hamer: It's a free country, and my choices of substances to use and abuse ought to be mine to make.

Goddamnit.

i know you're trolling, but your troll is actually right.

If someone wants to shoot up heroin in their living room, the gov't really doesn't have a right to tell them that they cant.

My friend brought me back a pack he took of a Republican Guard he, as he says, "schwacked". The smokes sucked but it was nice of him to think of me.
USA!

Yes Sound: Merkin Muffley: Oh also, JOINING THE MILITARY WAS A CHOICE.

And that is why this will not go through in the near future. Because the more dumb rules like this they make, the fewer choices to enlist potential recruits will make. The recruiters will be the loudes oppostion to this.

I hope so, we treat these vets bad enough, why make life more miserable for them?

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Do I have any choice about obeying smoking bans if I am a civilian? Did I volunteer for that, too? No? Then shut the fark up about choices, because your zealousness leaves me no choice under any circumstances.

Sorry, tired, that was directed at the zealous bastard in the articles comments not me right? I'm certainly against that opinion I first quoted, let 'em smoke.

If we can't keep them from dying from IEDs, might as well keep them from dying from cancer.

izen: i've seen soldiers run WHILE smoking,

Bahaha! Been there, done that! We got a new C.O. who would give a bunch us a hard time (in joking manner)for smoking all of the time. Well when the PFT came up, about five of us smoked the enitre 3-mile course and crossed the line together at 23 min's. The C.O. was taking down the times when we crossed when we finished. The look on his face was AWESOME!

I just thought of something that would save the VA a whole hell of a lot of medical bills. We should just sterilize everyone when they join the military. It's so simple, and no more paying for those expensive dependents...

gulogulo: Thunderpipes: busy chillin': Thunderpipes
And Farkers will scream for freedoms, yet say it is illegal for car companies to make vehicles that use too much gas or pollute too much? Weird.


Triangles have 3 sides but squirrels are mammals.

Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Gotta be a troll. That's too stupid a statement not to be.

No, being stupid is typical for this poster.

Sorry, tired, that was directed at the zealous bastard in the articles comments not me right? I'm certainly against that opinion I first quoted, let 'em smoke.

Sorry, following Fark threads isn't too easy sometimes when the quotes start getting thick and you're pissed off. I'm angry at the anti-smoking zealots that I'm going to have to carry for the rest of my life under ObamaCare for every one of their little problems but they decry me, a smoker who will (according to them) almost certainly die young and thus reduce their burden by one, saving 40 years of payouts.

mr lawson: izen: i've seen soldiers run WHILE smoking,

Bahaha! Been there, done that! We got a new C.O. who would give a bunch us a hard time (in joking manner)for smoking all of the time. Well when the PFT came up, about five of us smoked the enitre 3-mile course and crossed the line together at 23 min's. The C.O. was taking down the times when we crossed when we finished. The look on his face was AWESOME!

i keep seeing the term PFT followed by words like "3 mile" and "23 mins" so i'm gonna assume we're talking about the marines. oh so glad i joined the army!

Wow, what a stupid idea.

izen: mr lawson: izen: i've seen soldiers run WHILE smoking,

Bahaha! Been there, done that! We got a new C.O. who would give a bunch us a hard time (in joking manner)for smoking all of the time. Well when the PFT came up, about five of us smoked the enitre 3-mile course and crossed the line together at 23 min's. The C.O. was taking down the times when we crossed when we finished. The look on his face was AWESOME!

i keep seeing the term PFT followed by words like "3 mile" and "23 mins" so i'm gonna assume we're talking about the marines. oh so glad i joined the army!

Ha-ha! (new window)

I haven't joined anything.

mr lawson: Bahaha! Been there, done that! We got a new C.O. who would give a bunch us a hard time (in joking manner)for smoking all of the time. Well when the PFT came up, about five of us smoked the enitre 3-mile course and crossed the line together at 23 min's. The C.O. was taking down the times when we crossed when we finished. The look on his face was AWESOME!

Yea, except 23 min is not a good enough time to let you trash talk.
I remember in engineer school one of my gunnys PT'd the platoon yelling cadence, and broke most of us off, while smoking. But the exception does not disprove the rule. I know plenty of 18 year olds that run under 20min, but everyone above the rank of sgt that can run an 18min is a non-smoker.

Crocodilly_Pontifex: Urmuf Hamer: It's a free country, and my choices of substances to use and abuse ought to be mine to make.

Goddamnit.

i know you're trolling, but your troll is actually right.

If someone wants to shoot up heroin in their living room, the gov't really doesn't have a right to tell them that they cant.

except of course if your health insurance is provided under Obama-care.

I'm with the "let 'em smoke" sentiment, but if the government is going to have to cover the cost of healthcare for these guys, it seems a bit stupid for them to also pay to ship in cigs.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

You can smoke all you want... as long as you foot the bill yourself when your blackened, shriveled lungs give out on you.

izen: i keep seeing the term PFT followed by words like "3 mile" and "23 mins" so i'm gonna assume we're talking about the marines.
Yup..
We were trying to cut our run time as close as possible to 24 mins (failure) as we could, but it is DAMN hard to run at any speed and not make a three mile run in under 24 min's. I think we actually walked a few hundrend yards to "pad" the time. lol

wyrlss: Ha-ha! (new window)

That was just awesome! lol

Ya know, it would be a lot safer for everybody if we made guns illegal in the military.
logic is flawless
and the knives and box cutters...

I swear to God I'm going to start smoking again just to piss these farking Puritans off. These guys earned their cigarettes, so you pain in the ass self righteous puritan health Nazis need to go fark yourselves.

If we don't make that point clear in this country, how long will it be before the nanny staters from the left and the Bible thumpers from the right come together and decide once and for all what's good for us and what's not?

Yes Sound: Yea, except 23 min is not a good enough time to let you trash talk.

see my previous post.:-)
/1371 as well

You can smoke all you want... as long as you foot the bill yourself when your blackened, shriveled lungs give out on you.

Remember that when your prostate blows up and you can't piss anymore, or when your kidneys give out on you, of when you sleep with the town whore and get the HIV- it's all on you. Don't turn to me for anything that might have any connection whatsoever with a choice you made.

At the same time they ban tobacco they should get rid of "Don't ask, don't tell", thereby giving the troops an alternate diversion.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Sorry, following Fark threads isn't too easy sometimes when the quotes start getting thick and you're pissed off. I'm angry at the anti-smoking zealots that I'm going to have to carry for the rest of my life under ObamaCare for every one of their little problems but they decry me, a smoker who will (according to them) almost certainly die young and thus reduce their burden by one, saving 40 years of payouts.

No problem, when it gets thick I really have to pay attention too.

At some point you have to become apathetic, otherwise how do you deal with people like that? Just another problem with the government controlling all this stuff, it's reduced even further to an entirely money centric bureaucratic quagmire. Ugh man, you got me thinking about it and I feel dirty.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: prostate blows up

That's one hell of a medical condition..ouch.

Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

Eh, it's nice to encourage soldiers to be healthy, but as this is not something that will significantly effect the performance of their job (as alcohol could) congress can go EABOD on this one.

Military regulations should be designed to improve the performance of the military, and lung cancer won't get you 'till long after you've retired from combat duty (statistically). Regulating further is a waste of time and taxpayer money... a loss of productivity in the civilian government that probably makes the 846 million look like small change.

As for later health-care costs... fark you. We take care of our soldiers after they're back, that's part of the deal, you congressional dipshiats. This includes problems stemming from bad habits.

merreborn: I'm with the "let 'em smoke" sentiment, but if the government is going to have to cover the cost of healthcare for these guys, it seems a bit stupid for them to also pay to ship in cigs.

Tobacco use costs the Pentagon $846 million a year in medical care and lost productivity, says the report, which used older data. The Department of Veterans Affairs spends up to $6 billion in treatments for tobacco-related illnesses, says the study, which was released late last month.

You can smoke all you want... as long as you foot the bill yourself when your blackened, shriveled lungs give out on you.

Yeah, but dude, these guys volunteered to risk their lives every day for America and we get all stingy on them? And also, as I mentioned above, you are concerned about the small price of cigarettes for the troops compared to the war costs and often lifelong medical care for wounded troops? Hell, if you really want to save money get us out of the war.

Well this probably explains why the US military can't beat a bunch of third world farmers.

It's kind of ridiculous to consider yourself to be a big tough soldier if you can't do something like give up cigarettes.

I'm more worried how all those retirees with 20+ years of service who will be pissed they can't get their cartons of Basic 100s tax free anymore. My dad was one and they take stuff like that very seriously. You should have seen how pissed he was when they raised the price on a suitcase of Old Milwaukee from $7.99 to $8.99 at the Class VI store.

mr lawson: /1371 as well

Combat rocks represent. Unfortunately our mos is rapidly becoming working party of the marine corps. I am not sure if hqmc has figured out why they have so much trouble retaining 71s aftr their first tour.

Got to iraq, our first couple weeks were spent building furniture for various higher ups. Combat Ikea for the win.

Yes Sound: Combat Ikea for the win

That is all kinds of funny right there.
/been out now 10 years

This has already started...if you are part of the Medical Community you are no longer allowed to smoke in uniform. I'm a Submarine SONAR tech that is currently a Drug and Alcohol counselor and since we belong to the hospital, that applies to us too. Something about not leading a healthy lifestyle while in a health-care role.

Mind you that the Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut at the hospital is still open and the bar flows freely at the Navy/Corpsman Ball(s).

(this doesn't really apply to me as I only smoke Cigars but still seems heavy handed)

LamOtter: Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

LamOtter: Doesn't everyone in the military smoke? They face death daily, can't you let them light up? Sorry if it "costs too much in health care." Maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to invade Iraq for no good reason.

actually, there's quite a trend of quitting smoking going on in the Army, at least from what i've seen. downrange or back here in garrison doesn't seem to change much except the details of it. we have less smokers than non-smokers now and this seems to be the case even in the infantry division. not sure if it's the rising cost of smoking, the rising awareness of the damages it causes, or the rapidly growing and spreading popularity and significantly greater convenience of living a healthy lifestyle. the Army hands out Wellbutrin like candy to soldiers interested in quitting, and there's also many PTSD'ed soldiers getting on it for reasons of mental health that suddenly lose the desire to smoke(which is what happened to me, actually).
but those who still wish to smoke should be allowed to, imo

This is absolute bullsheit.
The Christian Taliban has got to go.

What I want to know is:
How can you people sleep at night knowing that the soldiers risking their very existance to keep your bed warm are denied simple pleasures and treated like sheit upon their return by the very asshats that created the conflict in the first place?
How is this possible?

mr lawson: Yes Sound: Combat Ikea for the win

That is all kinds of funny right there.
/been out now 10 years

Oh boy more war stories.

Yeah there's nothing like listening to arrested adolescents that never got over the desire to play cowboys and indians.

Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country,

Really? how many US soldiers are from Iraq?

Fine. You want to play the "I pay for your health care card" with guys who are out in harms way for you? They can take a bullet or bomb to the face, but no smoking? Don't even get me started on the fact that some 18 year old kid can get his life prematurely ended before he's even legally able to buy a 6 pack of beer. How farked up is that? He's mature enough to make the choice to potentially die in service to the country, but not enough to legally get buzzed...

Ok, with my rant out of the way, here's my suggestion. Lets up the ante. Let's make the entire Federal Gov't smoke free, including all elected officials. After all they volunteer for service too don't they? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I believe my taxes are paying for at least part if not all of their health insurance.

Might as well make it mandatory for any special interest groups/contractors too. They have some sort of financial dealings with the US Gov't, and we wouldn't want to set a bad example by supporting anyone with that nasty habit now would we?


/Not a smoker
//Believes in personal responsibility

Bob16: Oh boy more war stories.

Yeah there's nothing like listening to arrested adolescents that never got over the desire to play cowboys and indians.

If you ask nicely and are qualified, I'll bet they will let you play too, no need to be envious.

/give up, you are trying too hard, a good troll requires finess.

Bob16: Well this probably explains why the US military can't beat a bunch of third world farmers.

It's kind of ridiculous to consider yourself to be a big tough soldier if you can't do something like give up cigarettes.

aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

bunch of socialists with their socialized health care.

Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

Let 'em have booze, smokes, and hookers.

Nowhereman: Really? how many US soldiers are from Iraq?

A few, but the real root of the dieing for their country clause is that the government of the troops country sent them to war, and the whole point of a military is that it serves the politicians who serve the people. So if you feel the war in iraq is not a good use of your military, tell your employees that you elected, to get the troops out. For better or worse, the troops are dieing in Iraq and afghanistan because that is where their country sent them.

This will put the military in peril because instead of IEDs, the enemy will just plant packs of cycnide laced smokes around and the jonesing GIs will be eager to pick them up.

Yes Sound: If you ask nicely and are qualified, I'll bet they will let you play too, no need to be envious.

Nah...he would just pop of his finger with a cap.

Here, though, is great vid of a micklick going off:-) (new window)

/love the shcokwave!

Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

izen: aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

Hey brother, dont feed the troll.

This is just all part of the liberal control machine. Alot of Farkers agree with most control, but where does it end? Think of all the things you are not allowed to do/own now as opposed to even 10 years ago. Liberals are all about controlling every single action you do as long as it is their agenda. Smoking, what's next, playing poker? Emailing home? Masturbating? You call me a troll because I am pissed about the sissy car laws, how would you like it if they took away Palin bashing or Bush jokes or $4.00 a bottle Farker she-man beer?

izen: Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

Well i suppose some of them were already in the service before the war started so they are not quite as stupid as the total assholes that knew there was no WMDs and still joined. Now thats quality stupid there.

Hey maybe you could bottle some of that ignorance. Seems like it would be a pretty powerful weapon.

You people getting indignant about rights and fairness must not have heard that they just implemented some pretty harsh legislation here for civilians. All flavored cigarettes (even natural flavors) now banned...........except menthol.

It's pretty widely agreed this just protectionism on behalf of domestic tobacco megaproducers since they don't make djarums. Indonesia is pretty pissed as are people who enjoy high quality tobacco and natural cloves, or people who just see the basic unfairness of it all.

BTW the law, which delegates to the FDA the ability to regulate tobacco additives, explicitly keeps them from allowing cloves or banning menthol. But pesticide residue is explicitly allowed in cigarettes.

Thunderpipes: Liberals are all about controlling every single action you do as long as it is their agenda.

Your not gonna make it that easy are ya ?

"People need to watch what they say" - Ari Fleischer Bush admin press secretary

Tragic picture. A new generation learning how to become a nicotine addict.

Godscrack: Tragic picture. A new generation learning how to become a nicotine addict.

You talking about the Soldier or the Iraqi, because the kid with all the squiggles and dots in his name probably smokes more that the kid in the funny green outfit,

/caption:puff puff pass maaafrkka

Bob16: izen: Bob16: Zeno-25: These guys are farking dying for their country

These guys are so stupid they actually ended up in Bush's phony war. Some of them even volunteered. I know thats hard to believe.

When you buy a Chevy Vega from a car salesman as lame as Bush you are pretty much a lost cause.

"some" of them. was there a draft i didn't hear about? you're either a troll, or you're the stupidest person on the internet. keep it up, though, i'm literally laughing out loud at your naked ignorance.

Well i suppose some of them were already in the service before the war started so they are not quite as stupid as the total assholes that knew there was no WMDs and still joined. Now thats quality stupid there.

Hey maybe you could bottle some of that ignorance. Seems like it would be a pretty powerful weapon.

actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Not only is taking away their smokes a really bad idea, they need to give these bastards the occasional beer. They deserve it.

Plus, the terrorists have are taking advantage of the American soldier's weakness for beer ...

Yes Sound: izen: aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha. aaaaahahaha! hahahahahah!
hey dumb-ass, the enemies smoke more than we do and they've lived in filth and dust their whole lives. and the farmers don't fight against us, the INSURGENTS do, as in fighters INSURGING from other places where they've been trained in guerrilla warfare.
seriously, the anti-smoking fad is starting to draw the kind of mindless stereotyping idiots you see blindly hating on minorities or homosexuals and making definitive statements about a war they've never fought in or researched beyond glancing at CNN headlines.
i'm equally angered and amused by these kinds of comments.

Hey brother, dont feed the troll.

Well you guys are big and tough. Seems like you ought to have no problem dealing with a liberal like me.

/ wouldn't be surprised if you are so scared of the pixels on your monitor you resort to the ignore function.

Wow, sometimes I really hate my country...

OgreMagi: Not only is taking away their smokes a really bad idea, they need to give these bastards the occasional beer. They deserve it.

Plus, the terrorists have are taking advantage of the American soldier's weakness for beer ...

awesome.
and they do give soldiers beer, but only once a tour if at all. i got lucky and got beer both tours, each time only two at the same time and it was highly regulated and monitored (no sharing, etc). there's been other threads that talked about this. i love me some drinking, i'm even drunk right now, but alcohol downrange is a BAD idea.

Tietsu: Wow, sometimes I really hate my country...

you're from Iraq?

izen: actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Nope.

Your showing that you don't take yourself that seriously.

My hats off to you.

Let me see if I've got this: We should discourage servicemen from smoking because it's bad for their health? Um, okay.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Let me see if I've got this: We should discourage servicemen from smoking because it's bad for their health? Um, okay.

+1

Bob16: izen: actually that's what i did. guess that makes me quality stupid.
:(
i totally just lost this flame war, didn't i?

Nope.

Your showing that you don't take yourself that seriously.

My hats off to you.

i appreciate that. seriously.
i'm not ashamed of anything i did or saw over there, despite the lack of any good reason for the US to even be there.
besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Ok, let me get this straight...our guys/girls are coming home in body bags or with arms and legs missing, and the Pentagon has a problem with CIGARETTES???? Seems to me that IEDs and bullets are a bit more harmful than nicotine.

These inane policies usually come from assbags that have never served outside of regular office hours. You pay these guys slave wages, make them live below the poverty level in cockroach infested hovels, oh and by the way, THEY VOLUNTEER TO RISK THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR COUNTRY!! If you're going to make cigarettes illegal, make them illegal. Otherwise, find another way to justify your existence.

mediablitz:
Uh, whenTF did the U.S. military and the Pentagon become "the leftists"? The MILITARY asked for this study. The PENTAGON is making the recommendation.

You might note that "the Pentagon" is under civilian control. And that "the military" people doing the speaking were civilians, who were put there by (ta-daah!) the current administration, or loaded into the VA by political pressure over the last couple of years.

Up until this final report, the committee was fairly noncontroversial about their recommendations, sticking with "we should encourage soldiers to stop smoking, and make it harder to start smoking." Now, we get 20 year plans (or ten, or less - give it a couple of months and it'll be "by next year...")

Seems to me when you there is a possibility you could die today that the possibility of dieing 40 years from now from lung cancer seems pretty insignificant.

"And these children that you spit on, as they try to change their world, are immune to your consultation, because they are quite aware of what they are going through"

"Changes" David Bowie

God farking dammit. Anti-smoking assholes make me want to start smoking.

izen: i appreciate that. seriously.

I'm wasn't paying you a compliment.

I was stating an objective fact.

Any outside observer could see you have a decent attitude. If i would have refused to give you your due i would be the asshole which you are obviously not.

Bob16: izen: i appreciate that. seriously.

I'm wasn't paying you a compliment.

I was stating an objective fact.

Any outside observer could see you have a decent attitude. If i would have refused to give you your due i would be the asshole which you are obviously not.

fair enough. i was just reacting in surprise due to the sudden drastic change from your previous posts.

izen: besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Thats kinda funny. One of Salingers long time themes is that everybody is afraid of being a nobody. I'm not that sure it's such a bad fear if it motivates one to strive for something higher.

Maybe you should look into something like learning a musical instrument if you are looking for feelings of accomplishment. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be good at it.

Bob16: izen: besides, i joined for honorable reasons.... i think..... is blind idealism fueled by desperate fear of lifelong mediocrity a noble motivation?

Thats kinda funny. One of Salingers long time themes is that everybody is afraid of being a nobody. I'm not that sure it's such a bad fear if it motivates one to strive for something higher.

Maybe you should look into something like learning a musical instrument if you are looking for feelings of accomplishment. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be good at it.

makes sense to me. i would not be remotely surprised if 50% of the worlds greatest inventions/artwork/scientific breakthroughs originated from the inventor/artist/scientist sitting at home dreading the idea of being a nobody.

Actually one of my heros was a soldier from Vietnam.

His name was Hugh Thompson.

Lots of stuff online about him.

Now he was a great american.

Bob16: Actually one of my heros was a soldier from Vietnam.

His name was Hugh Thompson.

Lots of stuff online about him.

Now he was a great american.

holy cow. just Wiki'ed this guy.
just.... wow.... jesus.

this only deepens my love of military pilots. they rate up there with chaplins and, well.... i was gonna say medics, but that's what i am, so....

I don't care if you never had a smoke in you're life, if there's people shooting at you constantly, and you're offered a cigarette, you're probably going to smoke it if it won't compromise your position. How about we leave this decision to those people who are willing to get shot at and only let vote those people who have had to keep their heads down.

Stackerlee: You know, nicotine is a depressant (and a stimulant, too, depending on dosage), meaning that it RELAXES you.

Oh, yeah, I felt really relaxed after I tried it.

Maybe you're confusing "relaxed" with "temporarily took the monkey off".

I feel really good if I take off a pair of shoes which is hurting me but that doesn't mean I walk around in tight shoes just so I can take them off and go "aaaah".

Can you imagine a situation where a bunch of smokers are pinned down for 48 hours and they forgot to bring extra smokes? Is that what the army needs, a bunch of people in withdrawal on the front line?

The army already bans smoking out on patrols because it lets the enemy know you're coming from hundreds of yards away. Do smokers enjoy being on patrol and not allowed to smoke? Maybe some of them are tempted to sneak one in when they're on guard duty - nobody will know, right?

They may be all big grown up men out there (most of 'em) but from an army logistics point of view ... smoking is bad.

Sgt Otter: "Up for three days and powered by nicotine and Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew" Donut approves.

I want a Saudi Arabian Mountain Dew.

Can troops ship shiat back? Someone should be importing stupid little trinkets like that. The ThinkGeek crowd would eat it up.

/can use the profits to buy more cigarettes

I don't know if it has been mentioned but every active duty member went through basic training. Eight weeks of supposed detox. An eight week stop smoking program and tobacco use is still at 36%.

/You want to make something happen, light a smoke.

Thunderpipes: This is just all part of the liberal commies control machine. Alot of Farkers agree with most control, but where does it end? Think of all the things you are not allowed to do/own now as opposed to even 10 years ago. Liberals Communists are all about controlling every single action you do as long as it is their agenda. Smoking, what's next, playing poker? Emailing home? Masturbating? You call me a troll because I am pissed about the sissy car laws, how would you like it if they took away Palin bashing or Bush jokes or $4.00 a bottle Farker she-man beer?

50 years later it's the same BS argument.

Bob16: Well you guys are big and tough. Seems like you ought to have no problem dealing with a liberal like me.

You sound like fun, wanna have a beer? I have to warn you, you are going to need to bring the booze.

/probably more liberal than you.
//so liberal that my oxygenated blood is blue.

Joce678: Can you imagine a situation where a bunch of smokers are pinned down for 48 hours and they forgot to bring extra smokes? Is that what the army needs, a bunch of people in withdrawal on the front line?

Medals have been awarded for actions with a lot less motivation.

Until I enlisted I had never been around that percentage of smokers. Didn't hang around with the smokers in HS and back then (mid 80's) smoking in college was oh-so uncool (as opposed to now, can't believe how many smoke at my alma mater). Anyway, tobacco products were dirt cheap/heavily subsidized when I was in after college. In Germany I had to sign to the effect that I wouldn't be re-selling my cigarette ration to the Germans.

/and I hated picking picking up butts on police call...

izen: holy cow. just Wiki'ed this guy.
just.... wow.... jesus.

this only deepens my love of military pilots. they rate up there with chaplins and, well.... i was gonna say medics, but that's what i am, so....

Agreed - that is a hero. And it's so sad how people reacted to what he did.

TheMutineer: Until I enlisted I had never been around that percentage of smokers. Didn't hang around with the smokers in HS and back then (mid 80's) smoking in college was oh-so uncool (as opposed to now, can't believe how many smoke at my alma mater). Anyway, tobacco products were dirt cheap/heavily subsidized when I was in after college. In Germany I had to sign to the effect that I wouldn't be re-selling my cigarette ration to the Germans.

/and I hated picking picking up butts on police call...

word. since i quit i HATE those police calls and i feel bad for all the people who had to pick up my butts before i finally quit. the rations thing applies to liquor too, and it still goes on today. i'm stationed in Germany right now, where were you stationed, out of curiosity?

dipdunk:

At first I didn't really have much of a problem with the idea of 18-20 yr old service members being allowed to drink, but then I realized that they can and will do stupid shiat just like the rest of the population their age who get out into the world on their own. I don't want them on my roads, and I don't want to see them get hurt.

strife: dipdunk:

At first I didn't really have much of a problem with the idea of 18-20 yr old service members being allowed to drink, but then I realized that they can and will do stupid shiat just like the rest of the population their age who get out into the world on their own. I don't want them on my roads, and I don't want to see them get hurt.

and go on the roads they do.
three DUI's in the first four days of being back from Iraq (last month), and that's just in our Batallion, which is support (non-infantry). ...don't think i want to know how many grunts in the brigade got DUI's.

izen: TheMutineer: Until I enlisted I had never been around that percentage of smokers. Didn't hang around with the smokers in HS and back then (mid 80's) smoking in college was oh-so uncool (as opposed to now, can't believe how many smoke at my alma mater). Anyway, tobacco products were dirt cheap/heavily subsidized when I was in after college. In Germany I had to sign to the effect that I wouldn't be re-selling my cigarette ration to the Germans.

/and I hated picking picking up butts on police call...

word. since i quit i HATE those police calls and i feel bad for all the people who had to pick up my butts before i finally quit. the rations thing applies to liquor too, and it still goes on today. i'm stationed in Germany right now, where were you stationed, out of curiosity?

108th in Wildflecken. I don't think it's a US post anymore. As I was ETSing the unit was being moved back west closer to Division HQ in BK. They used to fire just about any piece of arty in the Army armory there...stuff that would rattle my windows from 2 miles off.

OgreMagi: Is that what the army needs, a bunch of people in withdrawal on the front line?

Medals have been awarded for actions with a lot less motivation.

Yeah, we could have a special medal for "going without nicotine above and beyond the call of duty".

Thunderpipes: Either you are for personal freedom or you are not. You are either for governmental control or you are not.

Thunderpipes, you're being excessively simplistic here. A person can be for personal freedom without being for every personal freedom, and a person can be for some governmental control without being for all governmental control.

Someone can be for the personal freedom to walk around in public in a bathing suit and flip flops, but draw the line at allowing people to walk around naked in public. Someone can be against government control over artistic expression in general, but in favor of the government banning actors under the age of 18 from appearing in pornography.

What you're saying is equivalent to saying you can be either an anarchist or a totalitarian, and that anything in between is at best hypocritical and at worst impossible. That's just flat out nuts.

I hate cigarettes as much as any man alive, but the artcle has a basic mistake built in: smokers consume LESS social services, because they die sooner than non-smokers.

In addition, having "been there and done that," I can assure you there is only one medication which will quell the withdrawal poangs to the point where the average person just might make it to the end of the day.

That medication is hemp, in 250-500 mg. doses every 2-4 hours. There is no indication that more would do any good, not that I think that would stop any of you.

This medicine is also effective in treating binge drinking, aqs has been proven across the nation: When "pot" was ghe drug of choice on campus, off-campus gin mills went broke all across the nation, only to resurrect in the 70s when a new generation of drunken college students snubbed their seniors with their declasse' marijuana, and resumed drinking by the boatload.

If you do not smoke and drink, you not only pay less in taxes, you also live longer, to collect more benefits.

If that is obvious to me, it is certainly obvious to the people who collect taxes, so now you know why marijuana is really illegal!

olddinosaur: When I went through nicotine withdrawal after 3 packs of non-filters a day for over 35 years, I suffered mood swings, fits of age, psycotic reactions---all the wonderful things you see in the movies, except it is real---and it lasts for 90+ days, as opposed to 72 hours for "coke": and "smack" and all that baby-stuff.

To understand what it feels like, first stay awake 48 hours so you feel like sh*t warmed over, then eat about 20 no-doz on an empty stomach, wash it down with plenty of black coffee and then hit about 4 sheets of really bad blotter acid, one after the other every 30 minutes or so.

Then crash for 8 hours, and do it again, about 20 times in all.

Or just smoke a hell of a lot of cigarettes and quit, and you will know why I say: Nicotine is what "smack" wants to be when it grows up.

5290 days of liberation from the slavery of nicotine addiction as of today.

Daaaaammm... I had it easy... but then I quit a 2 pack a day ultra-lights habit (should have just smoked paper).

/Started in the Navy
//Quit cold turkey 15 years later, the day my son was born.

merreborn: You can smoke all you want... as long as you foot the bill yourself when your blackened, shriveled lungs give out on you.

You can ski/snowboard all you want...as long as you foot the bill for your broken limbs
You can eat all the bacon you want...as long as you foot the bill for your clogged arteries
You can do less than the approved amount of daily exercise...as long as you foot the bill for your extended care

What do YOU like to do? I'll bet some govt/hospital bean counter will think its dangerous.

Great idea on paper -- it will save the taxpayers untold millions in later decades, as the VA slowly stops having to pay for the result of a lifetime of smoking. Bad idea in practice -- let the people who volunteer to stand up and take a bullet for you have a few perks.

izen: strife: dipdunk:

At first I didn't really have much of a problem with the idea of 18-20 yr old service members being allowed to drink, but then I realized that they can and will do stupid shiat just like the rest of the population their age who get out into the world on their own. I don't want them on my roads, and I don't want to see them get hurt.

I just found Wildflecken on Bing-maps (yes, I'm giving MSFT a look). The over head view was exactly as I remembered the maps but then it struck me...not a single parked vehicle, it's definitely turned back over to the germans. I still thank my lucky star that the closest my unit came to Iraq in 91 was pulling guard duty at Rein Mein.

Stay safe

Great Justice: There is a major difference between a military smoking ban and encouraging the troops not to smoke. The first is retarded and the second makes perfect sense.

/nonsmokers run faster longer
//faster soldiers live longer

No soldier can outrun a bullet.

I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

You sound like an unenlightened mouth-breathing tea bagger. The government knows what is best for you. Why not let it watch over you from cradle to grave like a good citizen?

Bob16: Well this probably explains why the US military can't beat a bunch of third world farmers.

It's kind of ridiculous to consider yourself to be a big tough soldier if you can't do something like give up cigarettes.

You sound like the product of our public schools. You blind hatred is almost as pronounced as your ignorance. You are a spoiled little Gameboy child who probably lacks a true father figure in your life.

Joce678: OgreMagi: Is that what the army needs, a bunch of people in withdrawal on the front line?

Medals have been awarded for actions with a lot less motivation.

Yeah, we could have a special medal for "going without nicotine above and beyond the call of duty".

You missed my point. A few soldiers pinned down by the enemy. Then they run out of smokes. A few hours later one will snap, "fark this, I'm getting out of this cluster-fark!" He shoots his way through 50 taliban, finishes off the last dozen with his knife because he's out of ammo. Not to be a hero. He just wants a farking smoke right damn now!

Really prime, well aged, Bull Shiat like this is the real reason they invented hand grenades and automatic weapons. "No Sir, I respectfully refuse to tell them they can't smoke while they are holding loaded guns."

chairborne: I just thought of something that would save the VA a whole hell of a lot of medical bills. We should just sterilize everyone when they join the military. It's so simple, and no more paying for those expensive dependents...

Actually, didn't a General recommend banning marriages for younger enlisted a few years back? Not quite the same idea, but very close.
[satire ON]
I actually think mandatory sterilization at birth is a good idea. Force people to get Parenting Licenses by taking classes and passing a test before getting it reversed. For that matter, I also support Turing tests in the voting booth. No pass, no vote, but no indication + lollipop for participating.
[satire OFF]

izen: the Army hands out Wellbutrin like candy to soldiers interested in quitting

And thank God for that. Martial Medical takes PM (preventive medicine) far more seriously than civilian HMOs. Never understood that, personally...

/Desert Storm Vet
//Quit smoking in BT
///Restarted first night in AIT
////Still cussing self for that one

Whatever you eat, drink, smoke, or chew...
The Health Police are coming for you.

There are more government employees than enlisted military. Thus, there is an even greater cost for healthcare of government employee smokers. How bout this- The ONLY government employees who can smoke are enlisted in the military !Everyone else employed by government has to quit. Shoot that one across the bow and see how quickly this idea dies.

olddinosaur: I hate cigarettes as much as any man alive, but the artcle has a basic mistake built in: smokers consume LESS social services, because they die sooner than non-smokers.

In addition, having "been there and done that," I can assure you there is only one medication which will quell the withdrawal poangs to the point where the average person just might make it to the end of the day.

That medication is hemp, in 250-500 mg. doses every 2-4 hours. There is no indication that more would do any good, not that I think that would stop any of you.

This medicine is also effective in treating binge drinking, aqs has been proven across the nation: When "pot" was ghe drug of choice on campus, off-campus gin mills went broke all across the nation, only to resurrect in the 70s when a new generation of drunken college students snubbed their seniors with their declasse' marijuana, and resumed drinking by the boatload.

If you do not smoke and drink, you not only pay less in taxes, you also live longer, to collect more benefits.

If that is obvious to me, it is certainly obvious to the people who collect taxes, so now you know why marijuana is really illegal!

except... if it was legal, They would simply tax marijuana more and if they catch you growing pot in your house they will simply beat the shiat out of and charge you with tax evasion. So it won't really improve.

There are a lot of people in the military who will never face the stresses of combat (as in, the majority). I say institute the ban on everyone except those who are deploying to a combat zone. I mean, they control every other aspect of our lives, why not this one??

I'm pretty sure we would have lost half my team to blue/blue combat if they had taken away the copenhagen in Iraq.

mediablitz: Bio-nic: Live with the fact that people make risky choices with their lives, and leave em the hell alone.

Um, WTF dos that have to do with them VOLUNTEERING to join the service and VOLUNTARILY agreeing to follow the UCMJ and all other rules?

I spent 6 years in the military. I understood there were a lot of things I couldn't do because I was in the military. WHY is this different?

"Drinking causes a definite and immediate impairment to your ability to rationally function and think. Smoking does not. "

Yeah. Uh huh. Nicotine isn't one of the most dangerous addictive drugs on the planet. It doesn't immediately affect heart rate at all.

Make all the risky choices you want when you are a civilian. Join the military? Abide by their rules. Pretty farking simple.

Fark You.

I've been in the Army for 15 years (12 active and 3 reserve). This isn't about some lowly private - it will affect the NCOs and Officers as well.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:
"We trust your leadership will bring our sons and daughters home safe and sound. We don't trust you with a pack of Camels. Have a nice deployment."

Let's review...Fark You.

I'm five years from retirement, so let them pass this ban. I'll dump half a can of Copenhagen into my cheek, work up a mouth of chewspit, hawk it on the CSM's boots, and walk away from this career smiling.

And so, in conclusion, Fark You.

/smoke 'em if you got 'em

izen: after our PT run this morning the smokers all stood watching a non-smoker gasping and retching, simply because he was out of shape.

Heh.. Reminds me of when I used to smoke Marb Reds at Keesler AFB in Mississippi. After the run, we (the smokers) would all sit around in the little gazebo, watching quite a few of the non smokers vomit and stop to hydrate trying to finish the last lap.

wage0048: I Said: ummmm . . .

How about, since these men and women get stationed in often god awful places and face the risk of getting killed or captured by others who viciously hate them, and we already regulate alcohol which I'm sure is something many don't like (although for good reason for that substance), we just let them smoke and stop trying to be massive pains in the asses about how others deal with their own health?

Because one of the essential duties of a person in the military is to be able to respond quickly and efficiently to an emergency situation. It's kind of hard to do that when you're wheezing every time you lift your backpack.

This is one of those opinions that really annoys me as a smoking athlete. It just shows that people can't discern between two smokers. Yes the guy who smokes two packs a day and ignores every other aspect of his health isn't going to be doing so well. Take out the smoking for most of these people and they aren't going to be much better off. Then you have the people that eat well, exercise, and enjoy a cigarette when they slow down. These people are better off than most people. In competition I count smoking as one of my advantages. I can go smoke, calm my nerves and get my head back in the game.
It's the same with alcohol. People understand there's a difference between someone who enjoys a few beers after work and someone who drinks a bottle of jack every day. I can't understand why people can't grasp the distinction.

My best buddy died from smoking.
He got started in boot camp when he found out that smokers could take a smoke break and sit on the grass, while the non-smokers had to stand at parade rest.

What kind of retarded shiat is this? Yeesh. Hell, I don't even smoke cigarettes, and I can objectively say this is beyond stupid.

/Last year, my company instituted a smoking ban on the entire property.
//You can't even smoke in the parking lot.
///Having hundreds of pissed-off machinists going through nicotene withdrawals is never a good idea.

FTFA:

Pentagon health experts are urging Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ban the use of tobacco by troops and end its sale on military property, a change that could dramatically alter a culture intertwined with smoking.


What's next....banning the sale of alcohol on military property?

/And Kenneth Kizer is a cocksucking douchebag.

President Obama, he says, could set an example for the military by ending his own smoking habit once and for all. Last month, Obama said he is "95% cured" but "there are times when I mess up" and smoke.

For God's sake, let the man smoke! He controls the button anyhow and I'd hate him to get all jonesed out, needing a cigarette when arguing with the Russians!! Besides, he has to put up with legislators trying to sneak things past him every minute of the day!

The way I look at it, if some soldier out there on the front lines wants to smoke between dodging bullets, IEDs, Joe-average-citizens with a bug up their arses against infidels and owning AK-47s and news groups from home assuring them that they're only there for the oil -- let them smoke.

Besides, they have some really big guns.

On a side note, I'm watching all of this antismoking stuff with interest. The massive media campaign, lawsuits, psychologically designed antismoking advertisements, exaggerated research results and the politically correct movement followed by carefully cultivated hate against smokers can, quite easily, be turned against any form of legal pleasure we use.

That means booze. Just remove tobacco from the script and substitute it with booze and you drinkers will find that $1.25 can of beer at the store costing $5.00 and folks scowling at you for buying it.

Coffee can be next.

Just wait for it.

mediablitz
Stackerlee: You know, nicotine is a depressant (and a stimulant, too, depending on dosage), meaning that it RELAXES you.

Tell me how being impaired EITHER WAY is a good thing as it pertains to the military. Also, the link between nicotine and depression is well established. So it is good to put people in high stress situations, then let them take a drug that either stimulates them (as cigarettes usually do) or depress them (as long term usage does)?

It we were talking about meth, no one would bat an eye agreeing they shouldn't be taking it. But somehow saying "cigarettes" instead of nicotine makes it okay.

And quit pretending: People smoke because they are ADDICTED. No one smokes their first cigarette and feels relaxed. Over time, yes, it can be a depressant. But people smoke because nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on the planet.

Did you know that being in a stressful environment, such as a war zone, also alters the mind? Caffeine- found in coffee, tea and mt. dew- is a stimulant that can lead to ulcers, indigestion and heartburn. Plastics contain artificial estrogen that may cause birth defects and prostate cancer. Meat has saturated fat, little debbie snack cakes (and everything else) contain hfcs which acts differently from other sweetners in that it blocks a chemical telling you you've had enough. Everything you do and take in alters your brain and will, most likely, kill you. Should we deny of these to the armed forces?

If you're in a war situation, you're going to be impaired in some way psychologically. A farking cigarette at least gives a person a minimal amount of feeling in control of their environment.

I know it's not cool/correct to say it, but I love cigarettes. Obviously, I'm aware that part of the reason why is the nicotine addiction, but to reduce it entirely to just the addiction aspect is about the same as reducing love for another person to a purely chemical reaction; there's just more to it.

I leave for Navy bootcamp in a week and a half, and I'm going to miss cigarettes, and I don't want to die prematurely/ have a robot throat voice just because I liked tobacco. But seriously, wtf? Why do they have to talk about these stupid bans right before I start my 6 years.

chairborne: The first time I ever smoked was in a foxhole in a tiny fob in Afghanistan, I was having trouble staying awake and didn't want to dip like everyone else, so I bummed a cigar off of a warrant officer. Don't inhale, still run fast, still smoke cigars.

I was Sir Dipsalot until I got out, sort of tapered off in college (except for finals) and quit right after.

Nicotine does help you stay up longer than otherwise. And it doesn't give you the godawful headache you get if you shave a little off a claymore for a substitute dip (a VERY little between your cheek and gum...)

And yet they always fail to mention that smokers cost on average about 100,000 dollars less to medicare and social security due to the fact that they die earlier than non-smokers. But that's depressing to think about, so let's ignore it.

sexy-fetus:
It's the same with alcohol. People understand there's a difference between someone who enjoys a few beers after work and someone who drinks a bottle of jack every day. I can't understand why people can't grasp the distinction.

Ummm ... lots of people can have a couple of beers on a Friday/Saturday night (it's maybe the majority of drinkers). Very few people can smoke for just one or two days a week. Nicotine is addictive and causes withdrawal.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nobody under 25 has a valid opinion of his/her own personal smoking habit. At that age you think the anti-smokers are exaggerating everything, that you're in control, that you'll be the one to get away with it. In ten years you'll be smoking a whole lot more, getting angry when you can't get your fix and regretting every single one because you can feel how much it's farking up your body.

The only sensible option is to quit ... and the sooner you do it, the easier it will be.

Marpiddycity: If you're in a war situation, you're going to be impaired in some way psychologically. A farking cigarette at least gives a person a minimal amount of feeling in control of their environment.

Um, only if you're a smoker.

I know it's not cool/correct to say it, but I love cigarettes. ...I leave for Navy bootcamp in a week and a half

Oh, look. Another youngster who thinks he knows everything about smoking.

Rik01: let them smoke.

The army needs efficient pieces of meat. They have no problem lining people up and injecting them will all sorts of shiat, telling them exactly how much water they will drink per day and how many times they should be shiatting every day. What's different about telling them whether they can smoke or not?

Besides, they have some really big guns.

can, quite easily, be turned against any form of legal pleasure we use. That means booze. Just remove tobacco from the script and substitute it with booze

If the army was banning alcoholics would you have a problem. I guess not.

Coffee can be next. Just wait for it.

Oh, sure. Everything is either totally evil or 100% wholesome. Absolutely nothing can be in between.

The Army has a right to demand whatever it likes from soldiers and should ban anything which can impair people, because other non-impaired people's asses depends on it.

Smokers will immediately leap up and shout "well smoking unimpairs me". Um, maybe, but that's not what the Army is banning. The army is banning the behavior which appears when you're climbing the wall because you haven't got any smokes.

erewhon: Nicotine does help you stay up longer than otherwise. And it doesn't give you the godawful headache you get if you shave a little off a claymore for a substitute dip (a VERY little between your cheek and gum...)

You see the kind of things smoker-soldiers get up to when they can't get their fix...? THAT's what the Army is banning, not the times when you're off duty and relaxing.

I find it funny that the military seems so worried about smoking and yet does nothing about these KBR burn pits that fill bases with toxic smoke.

Lawmakers seeks details of burn pit data

Oh and I'm sure removing tobacco from the PXs and a blanket ban on smoking will help the Army and Marine Corps' issue with suicide/homicide in theater.

/Currently in Iraq
//Almost had a munity on his base when the PX ran out of dip

chronotron: I find it funny that the military seems so worried about smoking and yet does nothing about these KBR burn pits that fill bases with toxic smoke.

Lawmakers seeks details of burn pit data

Oh and I'm sure removing tobacco from the PXs and a blanket ban on smoking will help the Army and Marine Corps' issue with suicide/homicide in theater.

/Currently in Iraq
//Almost had a munity on his base when the PX ran out of dip

fark those burn-pits. i got lucky and barely even had to do that detail but just walking by was bad enough.

Joce678: sexy-fetus:
It's the same with alcohol. People understand there's a difference between someone who enjoys a few beers after work and someone who drinks a bottle of jack every day. I can't understand why people can't grasp the distinction.

Ummm ... lots of people can have a couple of beers on a Friday/Saturday night (it's maybe the majority of drinkers). Very few people can smoke for just one or two days a week. Nicotine is addictive and causes withdrawal.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nobody under 25 has a valid opinion of his/her own personal smoking habit. At that age you think the anti-smokers are exaggerating everything, that you're in control, that you'll be the one to get away with it. In ten years you'll be smoking a whole lot more, getting angry when you can't get your fix and regretting every single one because you can feel how much it's farking up your body.

The only sensible option is to quit ... and the sooner you do it, the easier it will be.

That was a close one. I almost went for it.
7.5/10

sexy-fetus:
That was a close one. I almost went for it.
7.5/10

You think I got the truth/hyperbole ratio wrong?

RichieLaw: 1) Smoking is bad.
2) Its costing the VA lots of money in smoking related costs.
3) The previous two points don't mean fark all when you think about the stress-relief available to persons who smoke who have no other outlet. Why cause additional stress to an already stressful situation. This is bureaucratic bull shiat of the nth degree.

1> Yeah, we know this. We've known it for 30+ farkin' years. Some people CHOOSE to smoke, as it is less expensive, and definitely more treatable on the side effects as most stress-relieving drugs on the market.
2> VA is a joke and a half when it comes to treatment. It's easier to just go elsewhere afterwords. I feel pain for those that have to use that system.
3> This to the Nth degree!!!!

Based on how many of the republican guard were spotted hiding in the desert because they decided to light up combined with the improved FLIR systems, it makes sense to ban smoking in combat.

erewhon: Nicotine does help you stay up longer than otherwise. And it doesn't give you the godawful headache you get if you shave a little off a claymore for a substitute dip (a VERY little between your cheek and gum...)

A little what off of a claymore? A little of plastic casing that completely surrounds the main charge? The explosive is not readly acessable on a directional mine.

And putting explosives in your mouth is a BAD idea. I am sure you have heard stories about people eating/dipping whatever. They are not true. Some people will stick a bit of C4 in their mouth to impress the boots, but they spit it out when nobody is looking. One brilliant individual in my unit tried actually eating the stuff, and a few hours later he was foaming at the mouth and having seizures as they drove him to the hospital. There was some argument about wether it was the chemical tracers in the c4 or the c4 itself that screwed him up, but there was no arguing that he was jacked up by a Very small peice.

Protip: They want to ban smoking in the military for the same reason they want to ban it for civilians. It shaves money off the cost of universal health care.

Flyinglemur:

Mind you that the Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut at the hospital is still open and the bar flows freely at the Navy/Corpsman Ball(s).

(this doesn't really apply to me as I only smoke Cigars but still seems heavy handed)

That's a good one: if they tell the troops they can't smoke, will they kick the fast food joints off the base? How about the couple of Starbucks locations on Ft Bragg and Ft Gordon? What about the package stores? Won't end with the cigarettes folks, trust me.

Weaver95

Think about that for a moment. Society is just fine with soldiers out there in danger...but letting them smoke gets people upset. the mind set required for that sort of slobbering idiocy is staggering.

THIS. So, so very this.

nightfire: Weaver95:

Think about that for a moment. Society is just fine with soldiers out there in danger...but letting them smoke gets people upset. the mind set required for that sort of slobbering idiocy is staggering.

THIS. So, so very this.

Huh? I'm pretty sure it's not the same set of people on either side of that equation.

Subby fail

Marpiddycity:
I leave for Navy bootcamp in a week and a half, and I'm going to miss cigarettes, and I don't want to die prematurely/ have a robot throat voice just because I liked tobacco. But seriously, wtf? Why do they have to talk about these stupid bans right before I start my 6 years.

Ask for an academic drop after you make EM3, liberty is worth more than the extra pay.


/I'm in the military trying to quit smoking, so I'm really getting a kick withdraw rage fits...

Yes Sound: erewhon: Nicotine does help you stay up longer than otherwise. And it doesn't give you the godawful headache you get if you shave a little off a claymore for a substitute dip (a VERY little between your cheek and gum...)

A little what off of a claymore? A little of plastic casing that completely surrounds the main charge? The explosive is not readly acessable on a directional mine.

And putting explosives in your mouth is a BAD idea. I am sure you have heard stories about people eating/dipping whatever. They are not true. Some people will stick a bit of C4 in their mouth to impress the boots, but they spit it out when nobody is looking. One brilliant individual in my unit tried actually eating the stuff, and a few hours later he was foaming at the mouth and having seizures as they drove him to the hospital. There was some argument about wether it was the chemical tracers in the c4 or the c4 itself that screwed him up, but there was no arguing that he was jacked up by a Very small peice.

This is what I get for posting half asleep at 3:30. Sorry, I was trying to be tongue in cheek but came off sounding like a dumbass. It's one of those jokes like being sent for a box of grid squares, as you pointed out. I was being too obscure.

Actually, there's not a lot in c4 that's directly toxic. Rdx is a real strong vasodilator and will drop your blood pressure like nobody's business.

erewhon: This is what I get for posting half asleep at 3:30. Sorry, I was trying to be tongue in cheek but came off sounding like a dumbass. It's one of those jokes like being sent for a box of grid squares, as you pointed out. I was being too obscure.

Actually, there's not a lot in c4 that's directly toxic. Rdx is a real strong vasodilator and will drop your blood pressure like nobody's business.

I didn't know that about RDX. We could not find anything saying that the actual explosive or the plastics were toxic. We had to fall back and say that the trace amounts of whatever chemical they put in it so that they can identify the residue are what hurts you. (The entire chain of commnand suffered for that incident, and part of the punishment was writing up a lenghty essay about just exactaly why c4 is bad for you.

Its always fun to send people off for an id10-t form, or a smaw blank firing apparatus, or a firing pin sharpener. We had a particularly mouthy kid that got sent over to the comm shop to check out a PRK-E5. He came back a loooong time later looking worn out.

Well, the smallish doses of RDX you'd get from handling C4 aren't much of an issue. It gives some people a headache, although not as much as handling dynamite or detcord.

If you get a bigger dose, it tanks your blood pressure, makes you secrete fluid into your lungs, and can make you have seizures. Past that, it will booger up your heart's pacing system and just kill you. But it takes a goodish bit of RDX to do that.

What can get some people is walking through where you just popped off a big load of RDX, because some of the combustion byproducts of it are also toxic in other ways, and inhaling them will make you sick if you're trapped in with it, first and foremost you'll get a headache, then a nagging cough, at that point you need to un-ass.

It's why they may have told you not to pop C4 in a building you plan to stay in. If you need a door or wall buster charge det cord is safer. RDX fumes in a building where they don't disperse are bad news.