Alicious: The_Terminator: WhyteRaven74: You realize a lot of transplants aren't required on account of preventable conditions right?

Yes I do.

However, the example was a diabetic whose heart went kaput. DM2 = preventable.

I'm a type 2 diabetic thanks to 2 pregnancies with gestational diabetes (not a preventable form of the condition) and a family history of type 2 diabetes (usually hit after 70 years old but not for me) but thanks for making us all out to be fat, lazy farks.

Well, pregnancy is preventable...

/mostly joking
//mostly

Dr. Nick Riviera: Alicious: The_Terminator: WhyteRaven74: You realize a lot of transplants aren't required on account of preventable conditions right?

Yes I do.

However, the example was a diabetic whose heart went kaput. DM2 = preventable.

I'm a type 2 diabetic thanks to 2 pregnancies with gestational diabetes (not a preventable form of the condition) and a family history of type 2 diabetes (usually hit after 70 years old but not for me) but thanks for making us all out to be fat, lazy farks.

Well, pregnancy is preventable...

/mostly joking
//mostly

Got knocked the 1st time using 2 forms of birth control... Fear my ovaries!

I live in Canada and don't have to worry, so I'm blah, blah, blah...

No really, we have a single payer system, private companies pay for the little things, but as a recent graduate working full time with no private plan, I get an automatic discount on meds, hold the receipt, and get the rest back on my tax return. I was in a car accident recently and all the fire department did was take my health card from my purse and I didn't pay anything for the ambulance and emergency room. My auto plan covered everything else down to the taxi ride from the hospital and new pair of pants (they had to cut through my pants, thought my leg was broken, it was just dislocated).

I saw a program on TV where some poor guy had been stabbed and taken to the hospital with the knife still in him, he was literally pleading with the staff not to take it out or help him because he didn't have insurance. When I hear that millions of Americans have no health insurance at all, I shake my head and cannot believe that there is no political will for universal health care.

Health care is like police services, the fire department and library, it should not be private, period. If you need medical care, you are not in a position to bargain, it's literally your money or your life.

Of course health care can be improved, done cheaper, etc. But what we DON'T need is a government run health care like they've got in Canada, Britian, etc. That would be even worse. And I'm afraid that's what Obama is trying to do.

Well, two farkers got DM2 by not being lazy fatasses, so I guess that means all of the literature and epidemiological data needs to be thrown out.

tony41454: Of course health care can be improved, done cheaper, etc. But what we DON'T need is a government run health care like they've got in Canada, Britian, etc. That would be even worse. And I'm afraid that's what Obama is trying to do.


I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Government health care would cost a lot of money. We just gave all the money we didn't have to Goldman Sachs.

The_Terminator: Well, two farkers got DM2 by not being lazy fatasses, so I guess that means all of the literature and epidemiological data needs to be thrown out.

Look, Atlas... I know you take perfect care of yourself and fastidiously brush 4 times a day and jog and work out and live on salads and vitamins and Evian, but, um.. if you ever get hit by a bus and you're not completely covered, you're gonna find sympathy between "sh*t" and "syphilis" in the Merriam Webster, yo, because you seem to have appointed yourself the arbiter of all who are deserving.

And frankly, blow it out your ass.

ALL human beings deserve health care without having to move into a bus shelter to get it.

Dr. Nick Riviera: cuzsis: Depends on if you can afford the 3hr drive (gas, time off of work, and the bills.)

I'm having to put off figuring out a niggling digestive issue (my gi tract periodically just stops working...more or less.) but the costs of tests that they'd have to run is more than we can afford right now with hubby out of work and me on reduced hours plus a kiddo to take care of.

My dad was going to help me a bit right up until he had to go to the ER himself for gi issues (more diverticulitus, yay.) and had someone hit his car on the side. Now what little extra cash he had managed to carefully save up is completely blown.

Sometimes, life just sucks.

/had to put off dental care for a month for the kiddo too, as it was either that or be able to eat/pay rent that month.
//being poor sucks.

I think we're really off on a tangent from my original post about finding a doctor who takes your problems seriously, but I can sympathize. But my point still stands about people choosing other things to be more important than some aspect of their health. You, for example, have decided that keeping a roof over your head is more important than whatever GI problem you may have. I don't mean this in any sort of cruel or judgmental way, but as a simple statement of fact. Practically everybody does this, and if they're not doing it for lack of money, they're doing it for lack of time.

One of the many reasons that we're screwed with our current system is that people biatch, "I don't want my tax dollars paying for some poor working person's insulin!" Well that's great, except that impoverished person's diabetes went untreated and now they need a kidney transplant, which of course has to be paid through Medicaid. So instead of the taxpayers spending $100 a month on insulin, they're paying $150,000 grand for the operation and $500 a month for immunosuppressants*. Way to go, geniuses.

To fix our system, we need to either go full Randian and let poor people die in the streets or implement some sort of baseline universal health care system. The whole "have your cake and eat it too" system we have currently is simply not sustainable.


*numbers are made up, but you get the point

Agreed. It's silly that people have to choose between two necessities of life: health care vs rent or food. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will not work and this practices needs to be stopped.

Sorry for misunderstanding your previous statement.

cuzsis: Dr. Nick Riviera: cuzsis: Depends on if you can afford the 3hr drive (gas, time off of work, and the bills.)

I'm having to put off figuring out a niggling digestive issue (my gi tract periodically just stops working...more or less.) but the costs of tests that they'd have to run is more than we can afford right now with hubby out of work and me on reduced hours plus a kiddo to take care of.

My dad was going to help me a bit right up until he had to go to the ER himself for gi issues (more diverticulitus, yay.) and had someone hit his car on the side. Now what little extra cash he had managed to carefully save up is completely blown.

Sometimes, life just sucks.

/had to put off dental care for a month for the kiddo too, as it was either that or be able to eat/pay rent that month.
//being poor sucks.

I think we're really off on a tangent from my original post about finding a doctor who takes your problems seriously, but I can sympathize. But my point still stands about people choosing other things to be more important than some aspect of their health. You, for example, have decided that keeping a roof over your head is more important than whatever GI problem you may have. I don't mean this in any sort of cruel or judgmental way, but as a simple statement of fact. Practically everybody does this, and if they're not doing it for lack of money, they're doing it for lack of time.

One of the many reasons that we're screwed with our current system is that people biatch, "I don't want my tax dollars paying for some poor working person's insulin!" Well that's great, except that impoverished person's diabetes went untreated and now they need a kidney transplant, which of course has to be paid through Medicaid. So instead of the taxpayers spending $100 a month on insulin, they're paying $150,000 grand for the operation and $500 a month for immunosuppressants*. Way to go, geniuses.

To fix our system, we need to either go full Randian and let poor people die in the streets or implement some sort of baseline universal health care system. The whole "have your cake and eat it too" system we have currently is simply not sustainable.


*numbers are made up, but you get the point

Agreed. It's silly that people have to choose between two necessities of life: health care vs rent or food. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will not work and this practices needs to be stopped.

Sorry for misunderstanding your previous statement.

These practices...

/time to get some sleep I think.
//oh, and the original post. Finding a doc to actually take you seriously can be very difficult depending on where you live. I'm lucky to live in an area with some good docs. But I know some people who live in areas where they don't have that. And they can't afford to go traveling long distances/out of state to do so.
///And honestly, having to do that just to find a good doc seems ridiculous when you sit down and think about it. Something wrong here, you think?

Giblet: tony41454: Of course health care can be improved, done cheaper, etc. But what we DON'T need is a government run health care like they've got in Canada, Britian, etc. That would be even worse. And I'm afraid that's what Obama is trying to do.


I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Government health care would cost a lot of money. We just gave all the money we didn't have to Goldman Sachs.

Ugh...don't remind me.

Then of course there are cases like one family member of mine. This person had insurance and saw a doctor. This person was then diagnosed and scheduled for surgery. This person had the surgery which turned out not to be a success. This person's insurance company then dropped their coverage and proceeded to send them the bill for the botched operation. This person who has a preexisting condition that no insurance company wants to touch and a bills for treatment that didn't work but obviously needs again.

Even if you have insurance, with our system, doesn't mean you're in the clear.

EL_FABREZ: keithrogan: If you can afford beer, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford smokes, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford vacations, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford cable for your big screen TV, you can afford health insurance.

If you can't afford those things, then you're not working and thus eligible for medicare.

The real problem is that people don't want to buy health insurance, they want the rest of us to buy it for them.


What kind of chain smoking, vacationing taking, super-alcoholic are you that you think it's affordable to insure a family nowadays? Did you know it costs a healthy family almost $14,000 a year to keep insured? That's not pocket change for most Americans when the mean income is $40k a year.

This made me laugh. Well played sir!

/oh, and THIS!

To the Terminator: All the data points to a genetic component. I also got DM2 and have done plenty of reading and it is not CAUSED BY a simplistic weight to results relationship.... insulin resistance is still a mystery, or all fat people would have it and no normal weights would ever get it. After I got it, I asked a severely overweight friend of mine what the BG was for that person....normal. Seems so unfair, and we need to speak up when running into semi truths/negative prejudice.

First of all Type 2 Diabetes isn't even real diabetes. Oh no, you take some glucophage or some bullshiat. At least you still produce your own insulin.

Type 1 is NOT preventable, causes far more long term problems, and before the advent of insulin was a guaranteed death in a matter of weeks.

Being 23 with type 1 diabetes is fun, I get to look forward to all sorts of complications inevitably no matter what I do.

Nocens: Fano: Nocens: highwayrun: Nocens: anniepoonanny: If you can't take time off of work to take care of your damn self, then maybe you should focus your energy on getting a better job instead of complaining about your situation.


I dunno, I have a great job. I went to see a doctor for an eye exam. Preventive visit, glaucoma is a hereditary beast in my family. Took off work and was an hour early for the appointment. SEVEN hours later I finally got in. I reamed his ass, he didn't give a fark. He cost me 5k that day. He sent me his bill. I sent him mine.

Now the lawyers get to make the money.

There's a LensCrafters in your local mall that would have seen you on a walk-in basis. Why wouldn't you just go there? Heck, even Wal-Mart has an optometrist.


They sent me to the specialists years ago. I have a birth defect in my eyes. Something in the back didn't close properly in both of them. Mall doctors look in, go WTF, and won't finish the exam.

So you have a coloboma, big deal.


Apparently it is if I can't get a regular eye guy to finish an exam, chief.

I guess the way I should have said that was: then those guys are idiots.

eqtworld: Throughout most of the last 1000 years most great countries have had better healthcare and longer life expectancy than the average US citizen has today

and it was always free

lol wut

In this area, you are lucky if your employer lets you off of work for a doctor visit. My husband works for the #2 coal producer in the US, but if he takes a day off for a doc's appointment, he loses an entire day of pay. His company gives 1 personal day per year.

All of the doctors around here do not take our health insurance. But, all of the doctors 3.5 hours away from here do. Each visit we make is $150 without any testing. ER visits with a fever are covered 100%.

Thankfully we have a family friend who is a doc. He will see us for $10. But, due to my husband's job hours, he can never go to the doc.

It's so bad around here, our local hospital bought a restaurant, converted it to a free health screening center. Now anyone (with or without insurance) can walk on in, have a EKG, Cholesterol test, Diabetes screening, etc and not pay a dime.

Dental is an entirely different monster. It's outrageous. We have great dental, but our dentists around here charge more than insurance is willing to cover. I took my 3 kids to a pediatric dentist (since no other dentist here will accept kids under the age of 8) and we had cleanings, a tongue clipping, 1 filling and 2 baby teeth pulled. Insurance covered 80%, I had to pay $1500 right then....and was billed another $900 a month later. You know, even a regular checkup for all 3 (cleaning only) I had to pay close to $500 out of pocket. That's a hard lick every 6 months..not counting what it is for my husband and I.

However, if you do not work you can get Medicaid and have the state pay every dime. They'll even pay for gastric bypass AND plastic surgery afterwards. Sorta sucks, ya know?

Desterado: First of all Type 2 Diabetes isn't even real diabetes. Oh no, you take some glucophage or some bullshiat. At least you still produce your own insulin.

Type 1 is NOT preventable, causes far more long term problems, and before the advent of insulin was a guaranteed death in a matter of weeks.

Being 23 with type 1 diabetes is fun, I get to look forward to all sorts of complications inevitably no matter what I do.

Type 2 IS real. It is called Adult Onset and can happen a few different ways. 1- Steroid overuse. Not pump you up steroids...Steroids for inflammation of joints and what have you. This is the type that isn't considered 'real'
2- The pancreas starts crapping out in adults and doesn't function at full capacity. Eventually the pancreas can/will cease insulin production This is a problem. The body isn't producing sufficient insulin, therefore the patient needs insulin. This is considered just as real as type 1 (juvenile diabetes) And finally, obese patients can develop diabetes. There is so much fat stored, the excess sugar has no where to store. This creates a situation in which there is too much insulin. This type is not dependent on insulin injections

dipdunk:
3) Under a rationed system there will be notable changes to how the end-of-life care is handled. Right now this is where lots of cost comes from, and families are usually left with the ultimate decisions. In a centralized system it will often be the state that says when the plug is pulled and when it is not, especially when costs go up.

Care is rationed now... depending on how much money you have, which is the focus of this article. I would rather see a system in place that handles treatment according to how sick you are (heart attacks get seen NOW, sprained knee w/no torn ligaments in a week) rather than how fat your wallet is.

How soon you croak at the end should depend on how far your various diseases have progressed, not how much you can pay for expensive treatments just so you can suck a respirator for another month while someone who can actually be cured does without because they are poor.

This "rationed care" boogeyman is bullshiat... ask the poor folks in the holler where's their "ration" now?

Desterado: First of all Type 2 Diabetes isn't even real diabetes. Oh no, you take some glucophage or some bullshiat. At least you still produce your own insulin.

Type 1 is NOT preventable, causes far more long term problems, and before the advent of insulin was a guaranteed death in a matter of weeks.

Being 23 with type 1 diabetes is fun, I get to look forward to all sorts of complications inevitably no matter what I do.

You do realize of course that type 2 diabetics can also be insulin dependant, do you not? They also face some of the same complications that you do. Both types suck, and not the good way.

bunner:
Put some of this stuff just lying around rusting to use and get people with an interest in DOING something they studied for instead of finding a way to immediately make enough money to distance themselves from those who NEED them to practice what they studied, and do something concrete and useful that doesn't cost a fortune.

As long as the doctors which will be using this equipment get their six figure student loans for college and med school forgiven, then I guess they'll continue to be out to make a little money. Of course we could make going to med school more affordable so that good potential doctors aren't scared off by what it costs, and decide to get their MBAs instead at half the price... but that would make too much sense.

That's six-figure student loans for college and med school... with INTEREST.

cuzsis: //oh, and the original post. Finding a doc to actually take you seriously can be very difficult depending on where you live. I'm lucky to live in an area with some good docs. But I know some people who live in areas where they don't have that. And they can't afford to go traveling long distances/out of state to do so.
///And honestly, having to do that just to find a good doc seems ridiculous when you sit down and think about it. Something wrong here, you think?

Definitely something very wrong, and it's why we need debt forgiveness for medical students, better pay for general practitioners, and a reduction in medical malpractice rates. After eight years of college and medical school (with about $250,000 worth of debt) and three to nine years of residency plus fellowship (during which time your hourly wage is probably on par with someone working at Taco Bell), where would you rather be? Making chicken scratch as a GP in Western Kentucky, or bringing home major bucks as an orthopedic surgeon in Southern California? The way our current system is set up, the answer is obvious, and it's the patients who suffer for it. Things will never be perfect, but with some changes, we can make the choice easier for doctors who do want to return home and serve their local communities.

So what have we learned?

Health care costs are a motherfuc*ing gank.

Coverage might not cover you.

If you live in the boonies and or are poor, get stuffed. You're not profitable.

I'm disappointed in the "headline" and somewhat appalled that Fark would allow these people to be called "morons". To me, reading the article, they seem to not want health care that they can't afford. Essentially, they are saying "I don't want somebody to do a service for me if I can't pay them for that service". Sure, they could have used the system and got their free service (or been billed and never pay like so many), but instead they chose to not indebt themselves or ask for charity (other than an emergency situation that appears to have been life threatening) . Their means didn't give them the opportunity to look out for their own health, but they sure didn't ask for a hand out. I find that commendable. I doubt that the submitter has ever made that sacrifice.

I wish there were more of these morons around.

Desterado: First of all Type 2 Diabetes isn't even real diabetes. Oh no, you take some glucophage or some bullshiat. At least you still produce your own insulin.

Type 1 is NOT preventable, causes far more long term problems, and before the advent of insulin was a guaranteed death in a matter of weeks.

Being 23 with type 1 diabetes is fun, I get to look forward to all sorts of complications inevitably no matter what I do.

Type 2 diabetes (adult onset) is most assuredly real diabetes. If it can't be controlled by diet & oral medication, then the person may have end up having to give themselves insulin injections. This happened to my grandmother (I gave her the injections) and most recently a co-worker of mine.

However, because of rampant obesity, more & more children are being diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes.

keithrogan: If you can afford beer, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford smokes, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford vacations, you can afford health insurance. If you can afford cable for your big screen TV, you can afford health insurance.

It took me all of twenty seconds to Google this up:

...The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.

Do you spend $5000 a year on cable TV? By the fact that you have no idea what things cost in the real world, but are eager to mouth off like Mr. Know-it-all anyway, I'll allow the possibility that you spend $5000 a year marinating your brain in alcohol.

Nabb1: If only there were some mechanism by which a doctor could convey to the employer that the absence was due to a doctor's visit. Perhaps a written communication, on a small, convenient paper form.

If only employers would accept those. Or if only they'd accept that getting injured/sick might keep you away from work for a day or two. They don't.

/just injured my knee with no insurance, not going to a doctor, getting a kick...

didnt read all of the comments but i really dont see the problem of health care in this country. it is really easy to solve we just need to refer to our adam smith books of supply and demand.

healthcare demand is constant > doctors are scarce > medical costs go up.

problem is simple government subsidizes SCHOOLS, UNIVERSITIES to cover 50% or more Medical related degrees for students with 2.5 highschool gpa or above.

wham! flood the market with medical professionals will equal higher choice and and more competiviteness in the medical market.

/of course the only people who would be against this are the people already doctors because their pay will probably drop.

ThomasHayden: /of course the only people who would be against this are the people already doctors because their pay will probably drop.

You know, most markets eventually recognise that - if they are consistently not receiving their demanded fees - that either,

a): what they do isn't worth that much money or
b): their customer base, in this case, all human beings, simply does not have that much money, regardless of the value.

We're not talking about a new Jaguar or a time share in the Hamptons, people. We're talking about hard working motehrf*ckers, their babies and their mamas who are trying to stay alive.

A radical restructuring of medical costs and fees is way overdue.

It's time to start educating healers, as you said with subsidised education in the medical arts and weed out the God complex cases who naturally assume that, after they set up a practice, they can rake in Maybach money and foist the workload off on nurses and interns.

If you are in the healing business to get pigsh*t rich, go be a stockbroker. It's easier to steal form the poor, there and you don't actually have to touch them.

A grassroots reform of all of this that would allow for a more vernacular structure of medical facilities, mobile / storefront / embedded in huge stores... could give up and coming doctors and nurses the opportunity to practice, do some good and bring medicine and the healing arts back to the practitioners and patients and out of the hands of jerkoffs in suits with a shareholder responsibility and little other interest in the operations of their behemoth facility.

The degree to which this model could promote and maintain a useful and affordable level of preventative medicine, alone, could help pay for itself and any subsidies it receives just in defrayed costs down the road for major illnesses that were prevented through such an approach.

The old model is useless, bloated, inefficient and promotes the hundreds of years old guild mentality where the DOCTOR is some sort of holy man and HE OR SHE ALONE are what is important and the patient is a beggar at the door.

F*ck that.

It's time to start subsidising the education and necessary facilities of those who want to heal and shutting the ramparts on the archaic, self-serving robed and crowned anachronisms of the healing arts.

Jesus farking Christ , submitter, your skills with the English language call to mind George Bush Jr. walking into his daughters bedroom one night drunk, fumbling for an apology as he slips it into her. I am almost willing to pay you to never write another sentence for the rest of your life.

Also, free tip for you:

You are a sad, ignorant pseudo-intellectual piece of shiat and if you decide to generalize West Virginians again, perhaps you will be able to articulate your ideas in a manner that doesn't paint you to look like a sister-farking, son-sucking woodhick yourself.

/guess who needs some farking sleep today. Just farking guess.

Bunner, cut the shiat and boil your argument down to "I want free medical care and damn what it costs anyone else."

You don't do your job for free, why would you expect anyone else to do so? Because they love you?

Bunner absolutley right with my model raising the supply of doctors will lead to the ones praticing who care about people and not being in for the money. also what i think people need to remember is this also creates alot of diversity in the medical workforce. it's not like we need a giant surge of nurologists(sp) we just need more people to take gare of generic checkups and routine maintnence. something liek this will also be great for helping bring back a strong middle class that cant be outsourced lol. medial care doesnt need to be free, just reasonable. for everyone.

Fano: Bunner, cut the shiat and boil your argument down to "I want free medical care and damn what it costs anyone else."

You don't do your job for free, why would you expect anyone else to do so? Because they love you?

Gosh, yeah, sure... I should just distill my argument until it's YOUR version of it.

Can you read, motherfu*cker?

Blow the condescending pose out of your ass. Restructuring hardly means "gimmie for free!" If you're gonna suck Ayn Rand's dick, try to not do it on my dime if you can't be bothered with reading comprehension.

bunner: Fano: Bunner, cut the shiat and boil your argument down to "I want free medical care and damn what it costs anyone else."

You don't do your job for free, why would you expect anyone else to do so? Because they love you?

Gosh, yeah, sure... I should just distill my argument until it's YOUR version of it.

Can you read, motherfu*cker?

Blow the condescending pose out of your ass. Restructuring hardly means "gimmie for free!" If you're gonna suck Ayn Rand's dick, try to not do it on my dime if you can't be bothered with reading comprehension.

Haven't been able to afford your haldol lately?

Fano: Haven't been able to afford your haldol lately?

Take a wild guess why I put your slimy, mouthy, ignorant, dick pulling, nothing to say, troll ass on ignore months ago.

Go ahead... guess. : )

Back you go, idiot boy.

bunner: Fano: Haven't been able to afford your haldol lately?

Take a wild guess why I put your slimy, mouthy, ignorant, dick pulling, nothing to say, troll ass on ignore months ago.

Go ahead... guess. : )

Back you go, idiot boy.

Oh noes! Ignored by an obnoxious, foul mouthed bully! And I never knew that I was taken off ignore by your magnanimous nature. I suppose you can continue to dish out foul invectives to everyone else then.

eqtworld: Throughout most of the last 1000 years most great countries have had better healthcare and longer life expectancy than the average US citizen has today

and it was always free

Bullshiat at the very least on the life expectancy and better healthcare parts. Source, please. Otherwise, troll elsewhere.

Scattershot: eqtworld: Throughout most of the last 1000 years most great countries have had better healthcare and longer life expectancy than the average US citizen has today

and it was always free

Bullshiat at the very least on the life expectancy and better healthcare parts. Source, please. Otherwise, troll elsewhere.

And who was providing it for free in the pre-welfare state era? Church run hospitals?

Scattershot: Bullshiat at the very least on the life expectancy and better healthcare parts.

Nay, tis true fore many a daye wouldst find me in the chaire of yon barber, Theodoric of Yorke.

Truely, he hath a waye with the leeyches and the bleedeings that hath convinced me, that under his minystrations, I maye surely live to thirty five!

/facepalm