Carl shrugs at the suggestion that more frequent visits to the doctor might have detected his heart troubles sooner or helped him avoid major trauma through changes in his diet, drugs or even angioplasty or other procedures that, though expensive, are dwarfed by the cost of the helicopter ride and emergency surgery.

Thanks, Carl. You're not part of the problem AT ALL...

Does the article mention if these people are salaried or are paid hourly?

I worked with people years ago, in my shiat jobs, that couldn't afford to take time off to see a doctor. Between the time it took to get there, the time spent in the waiting room, and then the time you finally get with the doctor, they would miss almost half a day without pay.

Why do you think so many people use the ER or urgent care?

I stay away from my doctor because he might diagnose me with a pre-existing condition. Then I'd really be screwed.

what_now: Carl shrugs at the suggestion that more frequent visits to the doctor might have detected his heart troubles sooner or helped him avoid major trauma through changes in his diet, drugs or even angioplasty or other procedures that, though expensive, are dwarfed by the cost of the helicopter ride and emergency surgery.

Thanks, Carl. You're not part of the problem AT ALL...

Er, he didn't have health insurance and because of back surgeries money was tight. People living paycheck to paycheck don't always have $200 for a doctor's visit. I can't really say he is completely at fault here.

Serious people are serious.

Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance. Free or fee, doctor visits aren't priorities for many people.

Ryan2065: I can't really say he is completely at fault here.

No, but his attitude was...bizzare. He's opposed to doctors in general, but was happy that they treated him well when he had an emergency due to his lack of preventive care.

It's a really weird article. CNN FAIL.

ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

what_now: No, but his attitude was...bizzare. He's opposed to doctors in general, but was happy that they treated him well when he had an emergency due to his lack of preventive care.

That attitude isn't bizarre at all. Lawyers are liars until you need one. Cops are all corrupt until you need one. Palin is an idiot until you need her. Doctors are all money hungry pill dispensers until you need one.

Ryan2065: That attitude isn't bizarre at all. Lawyers are liars until you need one. Cops are all corrupt until you need one. Palin is an idiot until you need her. Doctors are all money hungry pill dispensers until you need one.

I have a uterus that works just fine, and The Boy could shoot food if I necessary, so why would I ever need Sarah Palin?

That headline is spot on.

If more attention was paid to preventative medicine rather than the more expensive and lucrative reactionary medicine, we'd have a much healthier society and reduce the cost of health care considerably. As it is however, the money and political capital lies with reactionary medicine rather than telling people do get off their fat asses, exercise and stop eating crap. As a result, we're farked.

what_now: I have a uterus that works just fine, and The Boy could shoot food if I necessary, so why would I ever need Sarah Palin?

You are going to a particle physicists convention and want to make sure you aren't the stupidest person in the room?

Much like dentistry, over half of the medical problems in this country are preventable. Just try to get people on board with that though. Give up mah double whopper lunch every day? The hell you say. Exercise? Get real. Hell, most docs can't even get people to take their meds as prescribed. Compliance, a word most people don't understand.

what_now: Ryan2065: That attitude isn't bizarre at all. Lawyers are liars until you need one. Cops are all corrupt until you need one. Palin is an idiot until you need her. Doctors are all money hungry pill dispensers until you need one.

I have a uterus that works just fine, and The Boy could shoot food if I necessary, so why would I ever need Sarah Palin?

Who else is going to solve the economic crisis?

What West Virginian medicine might look like (new window)

morons from West Virginia?

/did you know that under redundant in the dictionary it says
see redundant?

Subby must proofread t-shirts for a living.

7of7: ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

If only there were some mechanism by which a doctor could convey to the employer that the absence was due to a doctor's visit. Perhaps a written communication, on a small, convenient paper form.

Guess what.

That article is sure to change plenty of minds in this debate.

can we please just hang all the South-Park-watching libertardians now? please?

ScottHimself: Guess what.

Who? Where? When?

Nabb1: 7of7: ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

If only there were some mechanism by which a doctor could convey to the employer that the absence was due to a doctor's visit. Perhaps a written communication, on a small, convenient paper form.

Maybe the Doctor can leave tweets?

Nabb1: 7of7: ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

If only there were some mechanism by which a doctor could convey to the employer that the absence was due to a doctor's visit. Perhaps a written communication, on a small, convenient paper form.

which part of "can't afford to miss the time from work" don't you understand? You carry yourself here as some kind of smartypants, now do some thinking

ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance. Free or fee, doctor visits aren't priorities for many people.

Maybe because of the really high deductibles and what few things the "Massachusetts Health plan" covers. The health insurance the state offers is bad, plus the cost is rising way faster than the state expected. If not for some federal money Massachusetts just received to cover the health plan, the whole thing might have been scrapped.

Massachusetts cannot afford to continue offering health insurance/make it mandatory: the cost are too high. I give it four more years before the whole thing is discontinued. Anyways I never liked it that the state required you to have insurance.

pwhp_67: I worked with people years ago, in my shiat jobs, that couldn't afford to take time off to see a doctor. Between the time it took to get there, the time spent in the waiting room, and then the time you finally get with the doctor, they would miss almost half a day without pay.

Why do you think so many people use the ER or urgent care?


I also know some people with very low-end insurance plans that only cover emergency room visit. There is no coverage at all for anything but emergency care, which seems absolutely retarded to me.

Ryan2065: what_now: Carl shrugs at the suggestion that more frequent visits to the doctor might have detected his heart troubles sooner or helped him avoid major trauma through changes in his diet, drugs or even angioplasty or other procedures that, though expensive, are dwarfed by the cost of the helicopter ride and emergency surgery.

Thanks, Carl. You're not part of the problem AT ALL...

Er, he didn't have health insurance and because of back surgeries money was tight. People living paycheck to paycheck don't always have $200 for a doctor's visit. I can't really say he is completely at fault here.

Where do you go to the doctor? I asked my doctor the other day how much an office visit is if I dind't have insurance and it's a flat $70. Even with some blood work it's barely be over a hundred.

Nabb1: 7of7: ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

If only there were some mechanism by which a doctor could convey to the employer that the absence was due to a doctor's visit. Perhaps a written communication, on a small, convenient paper form.

This isn't high school. Just because you have a note doesn't mean your boss can't fire you.

Where is this West Virgina you speak of?

I read that as "WHITE serious people debate health care".

Must have spent too much time in the racist swim coach thread.

My primary care physician charges $125 just to get in the door. ALL tests, blood work, x-rays, etc. are x-tra. I hurt my shoulder and spent $400, only to be told I needed to go see a specialist. And, I don't have insurance. No wonder un-insured people drink so much. Likker is cheaper ...

I have constant pains on the right side of my abdomen. I would really like to get my doctor to take it seriously but his attitude is the same as all the other doctors I've met; if it won't kill me within 48 hours, they won't do anything as they are in the clear liability-wise. They probably avoid doing any sort of test as then that could be construed as acknowledging the potential seriousness in a future trial; without tests there's always deniability as they can claim I didn't make the problem known. Even with insurance, there's no preventive medical care in the US, at least not in my experience.

EvilEgg: what_now: I have a uterus that works just fine, and The Boy could shoot food if I necessary, so why would I ever need Sarah Palin?

You are going to a particle physicists convention and want to make sure you aren't the stupidest person in the room?

You, sir, are very good at internetting.

I'm satisfied with the quality of health care here in Canada, but for reasons I don't fully understand, I just can't see the Americans being able to pull off socialist health care, even if they copied the Canadian model to the letter and funded it twice as well. Call it a hunch. I don't know if it's the sheer size of the country, or if it's the pervasive stupidity and evil that all US government programs seem to eventually get bogged down in, but the idea of socialist health care in the States just strikes me as silly.

Befuddled: I have constant pains on the right side of my abdomen. I would really like to get my doctor to take it seriously but his attitude is the same as all the other doctors I've met; if it won't kill me within 48 hours, they won't do anything as they are in the clear liability-wise. They probably avoid doing any sort of test as then that could be construed as acknowledging the potential seriousness in a future trial; without tests there's always deniability as they can claim I didn't make the problem known. Even with insurance, there's no preventive medical care in the US, at least not in my experience.

How about practicing some personal responsibility and not becoming ill in the first place?

Medicine and hospitals are for liberals who aren't willing to deal with their own mistakes.

/lives in West Virginia
//totally does this. Half the people I know who don't have health insurance have a medical issue they 'fix' themselves instead. I've removed my own stitches once because I didn't have the money for another visit.

TFA: Carl and Elizabeth Walls share that concern. They have worked and paid taxes all their lives and say that if the government is going to spend billions on health care reform, then covering people like them "should rate pretty high," Elizabeth said. But, like Chouinard, they worry about falling through the cracks. "You know, we have worked all our lives and tried, and we can't seem to get any program that works for us," Elizabeth Walls said. Their worries might not make sense to those promising universal, or near-universal, access in Washington.

Working hard and paying your taxes all your life doesn't get you squat.

Did you save your money, or did you spend it all? Did you invest anything, or did you just expect that there would be a pile of Medicare and Social Security money waiting for you as some kind of door prize for existing? Did you look into every health insurance plan available, or did you just accept what your employer(s) offered you?

Working hard is great, but you have to do more than break your back at the mill for decades on end if you want the happiness that comes with being able to survive a major health issue. And if you're stupid enough to believe that all that money you paid in taxes was going to pay you back someday, you've been suckered by one of the greatest political lies in our nation's history.

The government does not, never has, and will not care for you. Politicians only care about what you're worth to them in tax revenue or political capital.

Your survival, health, and long-term prosperity is your own responsibility, no one else's. Depend on others -- particularly self-serving politicians -- and you're going to get screwed.

ScottHimself: How about practicing some personal responsibility and not becoming ill in the first place?

Not a bad troll, you get 1/2 an internet.

The problem is not that people are fat or unhealthy or getting preventative care.

All of that could be fixed easily-- insurance companies charge the fat, unhealthy, haven't-taken-preventative-care folks higher premiums, as they are at higher risk.

The problem is bloated insurance companies, and corrupt hospitals charging first and asking questions later. The problem is that between your sore back and the one-doctor doctor, fifteen people get paid. The doctor, the nurse, the receptionist, the billing person, the insurance agents, the actuary, etc, etc.

Insurance should be staying the fark away from the doctor offices. No more of these pre-arranged rates, co-pay agreements, etc. That stuff farks us all.

As someone whose maternal and paternal roots go back in West By God Virginia for over 350 years, this goes against my experience.

Every time there's any kind of family reunion -- wedding, funeral, etc. -- the only thing anyone does is ask about each others meds.

"Haven't seen ya in years! How's your medication?"
"Fine! How's *your* medication?!"

7of7: ZAZ: Massachusetts found that people who are forced to have health insurance don't go to the doctor more often than they went with no insurance.

And it wasn't because they couldn't get time off work?

One thing to note with regard to that state is that requiring people to have health insurance doesn't instantly increase the supply of doctors willing to be primary care providers. In theory, if they can figure out how to fund it (which is being quite problematic for them) the increased demand may bring more in, but medical training is not fast.

/would be highly interested in having skillwires and a datajack

EvilEgg: what_now: I have a uterus that works just fine, and The Boy could shoot food if I necessary, so why would I ever need Sarah Palin?

You are going to a particle physicists convention and want to make sure you aren't the stupidest person in the room?

Bam! Hey-ooo! +1! Oh, Snap!

This. (new window)

Article Summary:

Doctors suck! They charge me monies, and they just deal drugs. Evil people, the lot of them.

But when I almost died they saved me and that was cool. But no one should have to pay for their services. Evar.

We already have socialized medicine in this country. It's just the retarded kind.

1) Schlub with no insurance can't afford checkups or preventative care, so doesn't get it.
2) Aforementioned schlub has a serious health issue, requiring an ambulance ride and hospital admission.
3) Schlub can't pay his $50,000 hospital bill any more than he could have paid the $500 for the checkup, tests, and prescriptions that would have prevented the hospitalization.
4) Schlub files for bankruptcy. Unpaid medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.
5) Hospital recoups the cost of his expensive interventive care by passing on the cost to you and your insurance company.

There are two ways to avoid this situation. One is universal health care that pays for preventative treatment. The other is to allow hospitals to let people die on the table if they can't present proof of their ability to pay for the care they are going to receive- essentially, run a credit check before you get any major procedure, and if the numbers don't work, you go home and die.

Befuddled 2009-07-10 06:23:16 PM
I have constant pains on the right side of my abdomen. I would really like to get my doctor to take it seriously but his attitude is the same as all the other doctors I've met; if it won't kill me within 48 hours, they won't do anything as they are in the clear liability-wise. They probably avoid doing any sort of test as then that could be construed as acknowledging the potential seriousness in a future trial; without tests there's always deniability as they can claim I didn't make the problem known. Even with insurance, there's no preventive medical care in the US, at least not in my experience.



Don't expect any sympathy here. Like many online forums, quasi-sociopathic libertardians are infesting this joint

She is legally blind from diabetes but doesn't go for the periodic screenings that doctors say are crucial.

"Because I can't pay for them," she said matter-of-factly. "And you know, I could go, and I'd get bills, and I can't pay those bills."

Yo, subby-moron, there's a difference between just "ignoring" health issues and not having them treated because you can't afford it. A really big difference. Maybe one day you will live in the real world and realize the truth to that, until then, keep submitting links.

Befuddled: I have constant pains on the right side of my abdomen. I would really like to get my doctor to take it seriously but his attitude is the same as all the other doctors I've met; if it won't kill me within 48 hours, they won't do anything as they are in the clear liability-wise. They probably avoid doing any sort of test as then that could be construed as acknowledging the potential seriousness in a future trial; without tests there's always deniability as they can claim I didn't make the problem known. Even with insurance, there's no preventive medical care in the US, at least not in my experience.

Then find another doctor? If you have faulty brakes and your mechanic won't fix the problem, you certainly wouldn't keep going back. Same goes for physicians. If this is a sincere problem and they're still not taking you seriously, your best bet is to document, document, document. Take meticulous notes on when your abdomen hurts, where it hurts, what you're doing when it hurts, what makes it better or worse, etc. If you go in with a nondescript, "Oh, my side just kind of hurts all the time," they're going to think you're drug-seeking and write you off. If you want them to take you seriously, you need to show that you're serious about the problem.

morons from West Virgina [sic]

...As opposed to whom, exactly?

Befuddled: I have constant pains on the right side of my abdomen. I would really like to get my doctor to take it seriously but his attitude is the same as all the other doctors I've met; if it won't kill me within 48 hours, they won't do anything as they are in the clear liability-wise. They probably avoid doing any sort of test as then that could be construed as acknowledging the potential seriousness in a future trial; without tests there's always deniability as they can claim I didn't make the problem known. Even with insurance, there's no preventive medical care in the US, at least not in my experience.

Does the pain usually occur/intensify following a meal?

I know it is a difficult concept to understand for some "edumacated" people but a lot of people put themselves at the bottom of the list when prioritizing their lives. Sometimes people have to make choices between eating or paying for electricity or going to the doctor. Education has nothing to do with it, health habits have nothing to do with it.

Perhaps those who live in glass houses ought to step back from the glass. Some day it might break and you too will have to make tough decisions.