Homosexuality might mot indicate psychological abnormality, but gay affect certainly does. Screw whom you carefully and appropriately select, but stop pretending to be your Aunt Marjorie, or the nice lady who does the women's issues show in the afternoons. Or Judy Garland.

Strange. I'm a former yoga instructor (still certified), and I'm still queerer than a three dollar bill.

/["you're doing it wrong" gif here]

barefoot in the head: but stop pretending to be your Aunt Marjorie, or the nice lady who does the women's issues show in the afternoons. Or Judy Garland.

I won't be able to make it to the Friday Night Fag Drag... my truck is acting up... I'll probably take it in, maybe get some new Truck Nutz to go with my Confederate flag mud flaps... boy, you oughter see dem sunbiatches!

llamalord: Buy a sack of potatoes and see if they turn into onions (or vice versa) and call it a babysitter.

And if there's anything India needs, it's more heterosexual sex to produce more unwanted or unplanned pregnancies.

Irrespective of what your forcably stylish notions of political correctness may happen to be, all behavior is conditioned behavior, sexual behavior specifically included.

In plain English that means what is not learned can be learned, and what is learned can be un-learned, then re-taught a different way.

If the subject fights his therapist every step of the way, that is not terribly likely to happen, and if the therapist is lazy or a coward or professionally unfit, or all of the above, he can very easily dismiss the behavioral tendency as "---just another variation---" and send the patient on his way, none the better and much the worse for the time and money wasted.

The net result is, the patient never gets to the root of the behavioral causes which manifest themselves in a morose obsession with sex, a morbid preoccupation with the self, chronic inability to mature and grow up, and a fundamental inability to form any type of lasting relationship with any person, whether hetero or homo.

That is a general overview of the malfunction; a professional could add a lot more commentary.

The net result is, conservatives bash such people as morally deficient, pseudo-liberals defend their "right" to be that way, and no one anywhere has the slightest sympathy for the patient himself, who merely wants to benefit from therapy, and be happy and content.

The study of psychology is in the stone age in this country, and this thread really proves it.

eraser8: IonBeam2: Well, their education system is better than ours, and so is their technology and overall grasp of science, and their food is better.

Which is why all the smart Americans are flocking to India to study at their universities and join their high tech-firms.

India is a backwards, third-world hellhole. Crowded, dirty, smelly and disgusting.

Your second sentence is correct. It is also full of win and awesome. And Indians are cool. New Delhi is easily the most amazing place I've ever lived.

olddinosaur: Irrespective of what your forcably stylish notions of political correctness may happen to be, all behavior is conditioned behavior, sexual behavior specifically included.


Proof? References? You can't give an axiom like that and then expect everyone to accept your word as supreme expert of all that is psychological.

skinned: Rev. Bobby Bob Epps: inject your semen into another man (or vice versa) and make a baby.

I see "sex is only to procreate because nature tells me so" is your benchmark. Are computers and the internet as well as all other "unnatural" things that you like not abnormalities only because everyone else likes them too?

So they changed the name to "pleasure organs" to reflect your belief that sex is not for procreation first? Oh, they didn't? So testicles are still "reproductive organs"? I guess that makes everything else secondary.

Mind you, I don't care what other people do. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to tell some consenting adult he can't play with another consenting adults penis. It's none of my business as long as it stays out of my business. I wouldn't like a straight pride parade anymore than I like gay pride parades. What's next, BJ pride parades? Foot Fetish pride parade? Keep your business to yourself.

olddinosaur: Irrespective of what your forcably stylish notions of political correctness may happen to be, all behavior is conditioned behavior, sexual behavior specifically included.

In plain English that means what is not learned can be learned, and what is learned can be un-learned, then re-taught a different way.

Hey, I see you've been to NARTH!

olddinosaur: The net result is, the patient never gets to the root of the behavioral causes which manifest themselves in a morose obsession with sex, a morbid preoccupation with the self, chronic inability to mature and grow up, and a fundamental inability to form any type of lasting relationship with any person, whether hetero or homo.

Every gay person is sex obsessed, narcissistic, immature and antisocial?

That's an interesting take on the origin of homosexual behaviour you have there, but try not to litter it with your own petty personal prejudices next time. That way people might be more willing to engage with you and dispute your ideas in an intellectual fashion rather than dismiss you as what you have just so painfully shown yourself to be.

Al!:
Mind you, I don't care what other people do. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I'm not going to tell some consenting adult he can't play with another consenting adults penis.

I'm curious....

What does this mean?

I find that people who say "I'm not X, but..." actually, almost by definition, are X to some extent, and are justifying their Xness.

What exactly does it mean "not to agree with" homosexuality?

Al!: Keep your business to yourself.

We tried keeping it to ourselves for a few thousand years, it didn't really work out.

It's kind of funny that the only way I could ever be accepted as just another person was for others to make a complete spectacle of themselves.

olddinosaur: Irrespective of what your forcably stylish notions of political correctness may happen to be, all behavior is conditioned behavior, sexual behavior specifically included.


Its... Its a verbose Le Trole! Anyways... I would hope that you, despite your forced "stylish notions of political incorrectness", can make the distinction between an inheritable trait and it's expression.

Behavior is regarded by clinical psychologists as a gestalt of both inherited traits and environment, not one or the other. Great quote on wikipedia, if you like that sort of thing. Its a good jump off point, if you care to actually learn
Link (Warning! Wikipedia, may not be suitable for research papers!)

In plain English that means what is not learned can be learned, and what is learned can be un-learned, then re-taught a different way.


Which means that all sexuality, including heterosexuality, is learned, and it's entirely up to the individual. Thus, the only thing making you NOT homosexual is social training?

If the subject fights his therapist every step of the way, that is not terribly likely to happen, and if the therapist is lazy or a coward or professionally unfit, or all of the above, he can very easily dismiss the behavioral tendency as "---just another variation---" and send the patient on his way, none the better and much the worse for the time and money wasted.


Irrelevant to the subject at hand, though very vivid!


The net result is, the patient never gets to the root of the behavioral causes which manifest themselves in a morose obsession with sex, a morbid preoccupation with the self, chronic inability to mature and grow up, and a fundamental inability to form any type of lasting relationship with any person, whether hetero or homo.

Again, not specifically related to homosexuality. This has to do with obsessions with sex, and sex addiction, not sexuality.

That is a general overview of the malfunction; a professional could add a lot more commentary.


Professionals don't regard homosexuality as a malfunction. Not unless they are also religious zealots, at any rate.


The net result is, conservatives bash such people as morally deficient, pseudo-liberals defend their "right" to be that way, and no one anywhere has the slightest sympathy for the patient himself, who merely wants to benefit from therapy, and be happy and content.


Actually... liberals contend that their actions are not morally deficient. Can't really speak for the pseudo-liberals though. Can you enlightenment me as to the difference? And the majority of homosexuals don't want to be "cured", they want to be accepted. Man... are you copy pasting this from some cheese "cure gayness" site?


The study of psychology is in the stone age in this country, and this thread really proves it.

Baseless assertion.

IonBeam2 2009-07-09 07:48:14 PM
Atharaenea: So what? India is still in the late 50s or so, real time. They'll come around in another 60 years.

Well, their education system is better than ours, and so is their technology and overall grasp of science, and their food is better. But if you're trying to say that they're not yet as promiscuous as we are, I'll have to agree with you.

The only Indian education system I've heard about is the "buy and cheat" system. Works great for degrees, industry certifications and post doctorates

Melgania: I'm curious....

What does this mean?

I find that people who say "I'm not X, but..." actually, almost by definition, are X to some extent, and are justifying their Xness.

What exactly does it mean "not to agree with" homosexuality?

That means that I feel homosexuality is an aberration. If society is cool with a 73 year old man marrying an 18 year old girl, I'm OK with 2 consenting adults of any sexual combination doing whatever they want behind closed doors. I don't agree with it, and I don't practice it, but I won't stop it or act out against it as long as it isn't harmful to society. If you're calling me gay because I think 2 guys getting it on is disgusting, then I think you need to look up the definition of homosexual. I'm not in the closet, and I'm not bi. I'm a straight man who thinks that homosexuality is morally wrong.

Swami Baba Ramdev has challenged a landmark Indian court ruling legalising gay sex, claiming it is a "disease" that can be cured by yoga
I thought that yoga was the cause?

olddinosaur: In plain English that means what is not learned can be learned, and what is learned can be un-learned, then re-taught a different way.

Does that mean there is hope for you?

Al!: I'm a straight man who thinks that homosexuality is morally wrong.

You should think about all the good things homosexuality has brought all Americans... gay or straight. Consider brunch, hot lesbian porn, hair product for dudes, women on softball teams, the early work of the Indigo Girls, not to mention that every two dudes you see holding hands in New Hope are two less dudes you have to compete against to get some poo-nah-nee.

Al!: morally wrong

how can it be morally wrong if you have just stated that it is consensual and not harming society?

The_Gallant_Gallstone: not to mention that every two dudes you see holding hands in New Hope are two less dudes you have to compete against to get some poo-nah-nee.

Ok, I'll warrant that not every facet of homosexual behavior is without its merits.

Edd17: Al!: morally wrong

how can it be morally wrong if you have just stated that it is consensual and not harming society?

Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond. It isn't harming modern society because we have a very robust population, easily able to overcome the lack of a large percentage of it behaving productively (or 're'productively, as the case may be). If the US population was 100,000, homosexuality would indeed endanger society by robbing future generations of children. As it is, there is no true harm to homosexuality, because for every homosexual there are thousands and thousands of heterosexuals. So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

Al!: So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

If reproduction and such is the cornerstone of morality, could it be possible that the planet becomes so overpopulated that homosexuality could become moral precisely because it prevents an exacerbation of the issue?

Al!: Edd17: Al!: morally wrong

how can it be morally wrong if you have just stated that it is consensual and not harming society?

Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond. It isn't harming modern society because we have a very robust population, easily able to overcome the lack of a large percentage of it behaving productively (or 're'productively, as the case may be). If the US population was 100,000, homosexuality would indeed endanger society by robbing future generations of children. As it is, there is no true harm to homosexuality, because for every homosexual there are thousands and thousands of heterosexuals. So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

Sperm banks.

There is no reason to have sex to procreate, there's plenty of ways to create human life without having heterosexual relationship.

Even in a 100% gay and lesbian community, there can be reproduction.

Got 'em all stirred up again, I see.

Always fun to cause so much trouble.

Fark to me has always been a place to educate a few people while simultaneously pissing off huge numbers of them; looks like it pays off today.

Sigh. I'm just now reading a book on Hinduism and the various yogas. I was all excited about how nice and peaceful and usable many of the techniques discussed could be - way to bring me back down to Earth Fark.

Al!: So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

You could make the argument, but it would sure be a terrible one. Homosexuality is no more 'pervasive' now than it was 50 years ago, and that number ain't going anywhere any time soon.

olddinosaur: Fark to me has always been a place to educate a few people while simultaneously pissing off huge numbers of them; looks like it pays off today.

You gotta watch out... change up your troll personalities every once in a while...

If you repeat the same crap long enough, you will internalize it and start to believe in it for real.

olddinosaur: Got 'em all stirred up again, I see.

Always fun to cause so much trouble.

Fark to me has always been a place to educate a few people while simultaneously pissing off huge numbers of them; looks like it pays off today.

All stirred up?

Pissed off huge numbers?

Mighty high opinion of what your saying (a lot of unnecessary words for lollearntbeahvior) considering the one sentence refutations of your points...

olddinosaur: The study of psychology is in the stone age in this country, and this thread really proves it.

Only your post does that.

Ali Baba and the 40 Ass Thieves?

Al!: Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond.

So it's morally wrong to have sex for any reason other than to make babies.
Gotcha.
How's that life of abstinence working out for ya?

/morals are like opinions, which are like assholes. Everybody has them, and nobody really wants to see yours.

hourheroyes: Al!: Edd17: Al!: morally wrong

how can it be morally wrong if you have just stated that it is consensual and not harming society?

Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond. It isn't harming modern society because we have a very robust population, easily able to overcome the lack of a large percentage of it behaving productively (or 're'productively, as the case may be). If the US population was 100,000, homosexuality would indeed endanger society by robbing future generations of children. As it is, there is no true harm to homosexuality, because for every homosexual there are thousands and thousands of heterosexuals. So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

Sperm banks.

There is no reason to have sex to procreate, there's plenty of ways to create human life without having heterosexual relationship.

Even in a 100% gay and lesbian community, there can be reproduction.

Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to do it with a robot.

I can cure what now?

hourheroyes: Even in a 100% gay and lesbian community, there can be reproduction.

On that note, British scientists have claimed to have fabricated artificial sperm using stem cells from the mother.

Fano: hourheroyes: Al!: Edd17: Al!: morally wrong

how can it be morally wrong if you have just stated that it is consensual and not harming society?

Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond. It isn't harming modern society because we have a very robust population, easily able to overcome the lack of a large percentage of it behaving productively (or 're'productively, as the case may be). If the US population was 100,000, homosexuality would indeed endanger society by robbing future generations of children. As it is, there is no true harm to homosexuality, because for every homosexual there are thousands and thousands of heterosexuals. So many so that our planet is on the verge of having too many people, and the arguement can be made that this is the reason homosexual behavior is becoming more pervasive.

Sperm banks.

There is no reason to have sex to procreate, there's plenty of ways to create human life without having heterosexual relationship.

Even in a 100% gay and lesbian community, there can be reproduction.

Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to do it with a robot.

Turkey baster molded after Jodie Fosters fist.

Fano: Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to do it with a robot.



/It's SFW, it's a shoulder massager!

Al!: Because sexual intercourse is for procreation first, and anything else second and beyond

By your logic if someone can't reproduce then they shouldn't be having sex. Also, plenty of gays have reproduced and do reproduce. Thanks to modern medicine they no longer even need to have sex with someone they'd rather not have sex with to do it.

ninjakirby: On that note, British scientists have claimed to have fabricated artificial sperm using stem cells from the mother.

heh just figure out how to use the genetic material from one egg to fertilize another egg and you don't even need to worry about sperm. Granted you can only produce females that way.

Zamboro: squidgilium: "I know I'm gonna get the crap kicked out of me for this, but what if... what if... not every gay person is gay for the same reason?"

How is it any of your business? Or anyone elses? What is this weird notion some people have that they should have the right to scrutinize other peoples' lives and determine what rights they get to have based on the findings?

And if that's "not what you meant", please think through the logical implications of your suggestion with regards to the gay marriage debate.

I'll tell you exactly why it's an important question.

Let's say that everyone is gay or straight. There's a straight boy who is five years old; we'll call him Billy. Billy's developing a crush on little Suzie across the street. While he's looking at her one day and thinking, "She's cute, and I'd like to kiss her someday," he's not paying attention to the van that pulls up next to him. Evil pedophile man in the van scoops him up and whisks him away. Pedophile man holds him prisoner for ten years, raping him at least once a day. Billy is not going to come out of that decade-long event the same as he went in. His instincts and penchants have been screwed with in a major way. He just might grow up to be one of those self-loathing homosexuals who marries a woman but cruises airport bathrooms for young men.

Even if you don't want to think it, I think there are men lost in a homosexual lifestyle who don't belong there and they do need therapy to extricate themselves from it. Even you must admit that there are men living a straight lifestyle who aren't being honest with themselves. So you're telling me that it doesn't happen in a mirror image; men in the gay lifestyle who shouldn't be there but they got messed up along the way? Or is it only a one-way deal? That's just not logical.

While you're all making fun of the latest Republican politician or televangelist who is caught with young men, maybe you should wonder if their Uncle Billy boofed 'em in the boathouse when they were five.

I know, I know "We've thoroughly debunked the idea that a kid can get the ghey from another ghey." Yeah. "The debate is over." I'm sorry. I'm just not so convinced that a child can shake off such an event and get right back on track.

We now live in a world where a man can say, "I was born as a man, but I don't think I'm really a man," and everyone says, "How brave of her." But if a man says, "I've been living a gay lifestyle, but I don't think I'm really gay," everyone says, "He's been brainwashed by Christians!"

I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

What the hell would that have to do with gay marriage? If two men want to get married, they get married. If a man says, "I'd like some thearapy to help me stop being gay," that's his free choice to do so... unless some activists shut down his therapist for being a hater.

Your fear that the idea of some men being mistakenly thrown into the gay lifestyle is going to interfere with your gay marriage plans only proves to me that you need to avoid difficult questions for emotional and political reasons.

ReverendJasen: morals are like opinions, which are like assholes. Everybody has them, and nobody really wants to see yours.

We also would've accepted... "everyone has them and most of them stink"

ninjakirby: Fano: Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to do it with a robot.

/It's SFW, it's a shoulder massager!

I liked the "milady's needs" part

Squidgilum: Zamboro: squidgilium: "I know I'm gonna get the crap kicked out of me for this, but what if... what if... not every gay person is gay for the same reason?"

How is it any of your business? Or anyone elses? What is this weird notion some people have that they should have the right to scrutinize other peoples' lives and determine what rights they get to have based on the findings?

And if that's "not what you meant", please think through the logical implications of your suggestion with regards to the gay marriage debate.

I'll tell you exactly why it's an important question.

Let's say that everyone is gay or straight. There's a straight boy who is five years old; we'll call him Billy. Billy's developing a crush on little Suzie across the street. While he's looking at her one day and thinking, "She's cute, and I'd like to kiss her someday," he's not paying attention to the van that pulls up next to him. Evil pedophile man in the van scoops him up and whisks him away. Pedophile man holds him prisoner for ten years, raping him at least once a day. Billy is not going to come out of that decade-long event the same as he went in. His instincts and penchants have been screwed with in a major way. He just might grow up to be one of those self-loathing homosexuals who marries a woman but cruises airport bathrooms for young men.

Even if you don't want to think it, I think there are men lost in a homosexual lifestyle who don't belong there and they do need therapy to extricate themselves from it. Even you must admit that there are men living a straight lifestyle who aren't being honest with themselves. So you're telling me that it doesn't happen in a mirror image; men in the gay lifestyle who shouldn't be there but they got messed up along the way? Or is it only a one-way deal? That's just not logical.

While you're all making fun of the latest Republican politician or televangelist who is caught with young men, maybe you should wonder if their Uncle Billy boofed 'em in the boathouse when they were five.

I know, I know "We've thoroughly debunked the idea that a kid can get the ghey from another ghey." Yeah. "The debate is over." I'm sorry. I'm just not so convinced that a child can shake off such an event and get right back on track.

We now live in a world where a man can say, "I was born as a man, but I don't think I'm really a man," and everyone says, "How brave of her." But if a man says, "I've been living a gay lifestyle, but I don't think I'm really gay," everyone says, "He's been brainwashed by Christians!"

I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

What the hell would that have to do with gay marriage? If two men want to get married, they get married. If a man says, "I'd like some thearapy to help me stop being gay," that's his free choice to do so... unless some activists shut down his therapist for being a hater.

Your fear that the idea of some men being mistakenly thrown into the gay lifestyle is going to interfere with your gay marriage plans only proves to me that you need to avoid difficult questions for emotional and political reasons.

Butt sex is like broccoli, you don't like it if you were forced to have it as a kid.

Squidgilum: I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

Remove the social stigma attached to being gay or bi and your entire premise disappears like a puff of smoke. It only can exist so long as there is any stigma attached to being gay. If there isn't, then there is no reason to not be honest with yourself.

Squidgilum: We now live in a world where a man can say, "I was born as a man, but I don't think I'm really a man," and everyone says, "How brave of her." But if a man says, "I've been living a gay lifestyle, but I don't think I'm really gay," everyone says, "He's been brainwashed by Christians!"

Squidgilum: Zamboro: squidgilium: "I know I'm gonna get the crap kicked out of me for this, but what if... what if... not every gay person is gay for the same reason?"

How is it any of your business? Or anyone elses? What is this weird notion some people have that they should have the right to scrutinize other peoples' lives and determine what rights they get to have based on the findings?

And if that's "not what you meant", please think through the logical implications of your suggestion with regards to the gay marriage debate.

I'll tell you exactly why it's an important question.

Let's say that everyone is gay or straight. There's a straight boy who is five years old; we'll call him Billy. Billy's developing a crush on little Suzie across the street. While he's looking at her one day and thinking, "She's cute, and I'd like to kiss her someday," he's not paying attention to the van that pulls up next to him. Evil pedophile man in the van scoops him up and whisks him away. Pedophile man holds him prisoner for ten years, raping him at least once a day. Billy is not going to come out of that decade-long event the same as he went in. His instincts and penchants have been screwed with in a major way. He just might grow up to be one of those self-loathing homosexuals who marries a woman but cruises airport bathrooms for young men.

Even if you don't want to think it, I think there are men lost in a homosexual lifestyle who don't belong there and they do need therapy to extricate themselves from it. Even you must admit that there are men living a straight lifestyle who aren't being honest with themselves. So you're telling me that it doesn't happen in a mirror image; men in the gay lifestyle who shouldn't be there but they got messed up along the way? Or is it only a one-way deal? That's just not logical.

While you're all making fun of the latest Republican politician or televangelist who is caught with young men, maybe you should wonder if their Uncle Billy boofed 'em in the boathouse when they were five.

I know, I know "We've thoroughly debunked the idea that a kid can get the ghey from another ghey." Yeah. "The debate is over." I'm sorry. I'm just not so convinced that a child can shake off such an event and get right back on track.

We now live in a world where a man can say, "I was born as a man, but I don't think I'm really a man," and everyone says, "How brave of her." But if a man says, "I've been living a gay lifestyle, but I don't think I'm really gay," everyone says, "He's been brainwashed by Christians!"

I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

What the hell would that have to do with gay marriage? If two men want to get married, they get married. If a man says, "I'd like some thearapy to help me stop being gay," that's his free choice to do so... unless some activists shut down his therapist for being a hater.

Your fear that the idea of some men being mistakenly thrown into the gay lifestyle is going to interfere with your gay marriage plans only proves to me that you need to avoid difficult questions for emotional and political reasons.

Wow that shiat is just straight up retarded.

So. What your saying is that rape victims can become screwed up.

How does this matter?

Also some people are just straight up bisexual. Most 'straight' men have at least one homosexual experience in their lives. Human sexuality is more of a bell curve then anything else. By restricting marriages to heterosexual relationships, then true human sexuality can never be explored.

hourheroyes:
By restricting marriages to heterosexual relationships, then true human sexuality can never be explored.

Minus that 'then'. Distracted by all the gay talk.

WhyteRaven74: Squidgilum: I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

Remove the social stigma attached to being gay or bi and your entire premise disappears like a puff of smoke. It only can exist so long as there is any stigma attached to being gay. If there isn't, then there is no reason to not be honest with yourself.

Disregarding the notion that a social stigma can be removed so easily and that an ingrained problem becomes a puff of smoke, I still say "Nope." If a kid is straight and he's experienced repeated homosexual rape, he's still not going to be 100% where he should be. It's not social stigma that causes the problem. His own proclivity creates an inner personal stigma. His own concept of himself has been invaded and vandalized.

olddinosaur: Irrespective of what your forcably stylish notions of political correctness may happen to be, all behavior is conditioned behavior, sexual behavior specifically included.

Agreed! Those schizophrenics and people with personality disorders should just PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THE BOOTSTRAPS! Alcohol has no effect on behavior whatsoever, and DUI laws are bullshiat! Shim-pua marriages fail because the children are conditioned to dislike each other, because their parents clearly want no grandchildren!

In plain English that means what is not learned can be learned, and what is learned can be un-learned, then re-taught a different way.

Oh, yes, just yesterday I unlearned my enjoyment of food and taught myself to eat only plain boiled eggplant and gruel. I HATE food that tastes good now!

If the subject fights his therapist every step of the way, that is not terribly likely to happen, and if the therapist is lazy or a coward or professionally unfit, or all of the above, he can very easily dismiss the behavioral tendency as "---just another variation---" and send the patient on his way, none the better and much the worse for the time and money wasted.

You DO know the DSM has always required that a mental illness negatively impact the person's ability to function, right? And homosexuals have no problem holding jobs, having social lives, taking care of themselves or being happy? That's WHY THEY TOOK IT OUT.

The net result is, the patient never gets to the root of the behavioral causes which manifest themselves in a morose obsession with sex,

Interesting how self-proclaimed asexuals will list themselves as "homoromantic" because they enjoy romantic relationships with the same gender but have no interest in sex. Indeed, many homosexual couples will go to couples therapy because they have the same problems in relationships with lack of sex as heterosexual couples do.

a morbid preoccupation with the self,

Oh. I see. You're confusing "homosexuals" with "Baby Boomers" because baby boomers were the first generation to accept homosexuals. Here's a hint-- Everyone born from 1950 to 1980 could be accused of a "morbid preoccupation with the self."

chronic inability to mature and grow up,

Spoken like a person who has never known an open homosexual. Here's a hint-- they're usually more mature and self-reliant than heterosexuals their age, because they have to stand up for themselves.

and a fundamental inability to form any type of lasting relationship with any person, whether hetero or homo.

Yes! So they would NEVER want something like MARRIAGE RIGHTS, what would they DO with them? They can't form relationships that last fifty years, all those elderly couples seeking marriages in Mass after living together for fifty years are figments of our collective imagination!

That is a general overview of the malfunction; a professional could add a lot more commentary.

Professionals have already decided that homosexuality can't meet the criteria for a mental illness because it does not cause physical harm to anyone and the individuals can and do lead happy and successful lives, except when assailed with bigotry; they then react just as anyone else treated with bigotry would. So, their commentary was a lot more-- just completely the opposite of yours.

The net result is, conservatives bash such people as morally deficient, pseudo-liberals defend their "right" to be that way, and no one anywhere has the slightest sympathy for the patient himself, who merely wants to benefit from therapy, and be happy and content.

The only people who want this therapy are those who have been told their whole lives that they need it and they are evil and sinful, and thus are ostracized by their families. Funny thing is, it NEVER WORKS. It has never worked except to force people into the closet. At most you could claim homosexuality was a personality disorder, and thus incurable, because it is; no proposed cure has ever successfully helped individuals not be gay.

And another funny thing-- those individuals raised in supportive environments go on to live their whole long, happy lives with a loving partner.

The study of psychology is in the stone age in this country, and this thread really proves it.

Yes, I've long felt the fact that NARTH has anyone working for it was a sign the psychology business is still in the stone age. We have a long way to go before we'll teach everyone that homosexuality is incurable and cannot count as a mental illness.

Squidgilum: WhyteRaven74: Squidgilum: I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

Remove the social stigma attached to being gay or bi and your entire premise disappears like a puff of smoke. It only can exist so long as there is any stigma attached to being gay. If there isn't, then there is no reason to not be honest with yourself.

Disregarding the notion that a social stigma can be removed so easily and that an ingrained problem becomes a puff of smoke, I still say "Nope." If a kid is straight and he's experienced repeated homosexual rape, he's still not going to be 100% where he should be. It's not social stigma that causes the problem. His own proclivity creates an inner personal stigma. His own concept of himself has been invaded and vandalized.

No rape victim would be 100% there without years of therapy, and probably won't be after that.

Gays are the "Canary in the Coalmine" in terms of warning signs that religious fundamentalism is infecting a country.

I just wish someone had chosen the troll's orifice to try to make a baby in.

/best lay the troll ever would have had
/only one

Squidgilum: WhyteRaven74: Squidgilum: I just don't think everyone who's gay wound up that way from the same circumstances, and some of them may need to get out of it to be who they really are.

Remove the social stigma attached to being gay or bi and your entire premise disappears like a puff of smoke. It only can exist so long as there is any stigma attached to being gay. If there isn't, then there is no reason to not be honest with yourself.

Disregarding the notion that a social stigma can be removed so easily and that an ingrained problem becomes a puff of smoke, I still say "Nope." If a kid is straight and he's experienced repeated homosexual rape, he's still not going to be 100% where he should be. It's not social stigma that causes the problem. His own proclivity creates an inner personal stigma. His own concept of himself has been invaded and vandalized.

Moreover, all you're doing is finding a situation (anyone you can create) to 'show' you can create a gay. But you offer no actual proof.

Of course there are tons of examples of people driven to suicide because of their forbidden sexuality, people who were never 'repeatedly raped'.