Dammit, 420 thread and I'm bone dry.

I was at a fest last weekend. I was on Ms, O and W
*. Near the peak of my evening, I chatted with a tetrad of Michigan State Police officers. They were really warm, friendly guys, and I would even go so far as to say they were funny, which went a long way to impress me. God Bless the lot of 'em. Sad to make 'em bust people for things they don't really care about. Who but the cops would know about this? They, it seems in the main, advocate relaxation on this issue. They were friendly! They came over to my hammock and smiled. It was great!

* and sleep dep

as someone who is going to be attending oaksterdam U in a few months, i'm happy for the free press, thanks msnbc!

/2010 baby, 2010

If we legalize marijuana the brown people will rape the white woman.

/It's been proven with film.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it

Might as well. It's getting to the point where you can't find decent pipe tobacco anyway...

?? From the government that is making some basic pain medication require perscriptions?
from the same government that mandates seatbelts on play ground equipment?

sure, this will happen easily.

CaptSacto: TheGreatZarquon: Pot is growable at home and therefore semi-free, and if taxed





I don't think you thought this all the way through. When it is grown at home, how do you expect the government to tax it???

tenpoundsofcheese: CaptSacto: TheGreatZarquon: Pot is growable at home and therefore semi-free, and if taxed


I don't think you thought this all the way through. When it is grown at home, how do you expect the government to tax it???

Same as with other consumable vegetation: not everyone is going to be industrious enough to grow it themselves, only a small portion of potheads will undertake the effort. Pretty much everyone else will pop off down to the nearest head shop for a half ounce of Purple Haze.

HumanBeingsSuck: Dammit, 420 thread and I'm bone dry

In Austin? I thought that was unpossible

Longhorns suck!

tenpoundsofcheese: CaptSacto: TheGreatZarquon: Pot is growable at home and therefore semi-free, and if taxed

I don't think you thought this all the way through. When it is grown at home, how do you expect the government to tax it???

Did you know that you can brew your own beer at home, resulting in you drinking better beer for significantly less money?

Stop me if this gets boring.

</Stop.>

Hilarious.

Legalization is an interesting concept. However, since we aren't *really* a shining example of self-government, it's difficult to see how they would deal with that much change to a National paradigm. Hell we can't figure out how to pay Hollywood fast enough. RIAA indeed.

After years of belief, and campaigns like Reefer Madness against cannabinoids, try getting every Policeman and Woman in the country, to simultaneously agree on leniency. It's been said the hardest thing to change, is another person's mind.

The politicians fear change of any kind. And legalization would be, sizeable change. We don't have a legal system which accounts for rapid changes in perspective. This, I would hope, is partly by design. Preventing lemmings-like demise, is the point of anyone at the helm.

Let me see if I have my history in (rough) order: We used a certain plant for lamp oil, paper, clothing, etc. Then trees became popular. Then we started running out of trees. While this "weed" grows to height of 4-10 ft tall, EVERY YEAR. So, yeah. The very definition of renewable. It grows back as fast as we can use it.

So, now that's apparently a bad thing? Simply because YES, some people can't control themselves (anyone know a gambler?), or have pre-existing mental conditions which make playing with brain chemicals, a particularly risky experiment and I wouldn't recommend it. However, alcohol affects chemicals in the brain, and often comes with a nasty hangover.

So, to help us move on, I propose we post lessons learned WHILE being poth-eads. (Thank you Fish) Thus enabling us to suggest the rules surrounding it's introduction into society, and how it *might* be taxed appropriately.

Marijuana
- If you MUST cook while high, buy a GOOD timer, that's loud, easy to set, and shuts off after 30 seconds. You look responsible, and you never forget a burner on.
- Also, don't ever touch a joint with wet lips, unless it's your own. Herpes exists, and touching someone else's cold, wet saliva.. just isn't cool.

BONUS: Alcohol
- After a binge.. Eat whatever greasy-spoon fare you can keep down. You're low on Salt. But you won't know it 'til morning.
- Drink at least a [litre / 4 cups / X pints] of water before going to bed, especially after salty food and/or tequila. You might piss like a racehorse, but you won't die in the morning.
- Keep 2 capsules (hidden if you have a Cat) of your favorite painkillers near the bed, just in case. People will call you if you let them. I'm an Advil guy.

And finally: Will legalization help?

Not until we amend our legal system to incorporate the will of the people, especially in mass-movement directions, at a much faster pace. World-wide voting with minimal overhead. Which we could accomplish quite easily via cellphone. But such connectivity wasn't an option when electoral theory first originated.

Taxation will work, but once again, isn't it just a plant? Let people grow this freely. Overnight, it's value will drop. One Drug-war over. That should be worth a decent penny.

Or is it just a fantastic excuse to willingly tax us, yet again?

I think the best way out of this is to print the money with ink laced with THC, that way if the currency devaluates to zero, as it has in Zimbabwe, you can stick your money in your pipe and smoke it, and you will be so stoned you won't care if you are broke.

Makes about as much sense as anything I have heard professional economists say these days.

But of course they work at a disadvantage, they haven't smoked as much dope as I have.

olddinosaur: I think the best way out of this is to print the money with ink laced with THC, that way if the currency devaluates to zero, as it has in Zimbabwe, you can stick your money in your pipe and smoke it, and you will be so stoned you won't care if you are broke.

m2313: That's a pipe dream.Just what we need.Less functional members of society.Do you potheads have anything to show it's not all smoke and mirrors?I think it's time you guys packed it in.Hell, I guess we should just legalize heroin then.We need to plant functional seeds in this society, not based on drugs, but on less government waste in spending.If you want legal drugs find another country to go to.Keep drugs out of my America.

tenpoundsofcheese: I don't think you thought this all the way through. When it is grown at home, how do you expect the government to tax it???

I *could* grow my own tobacco, but I don't. I *could* brew my own beer, but I don't. I for one would much rather purchase packaged and prepared pot rather than go to all the trouble of growing it.

m2313: That's a pipe dream.Just what we need.Less functional members of society.Do you potheads have anything to show it's not all smoke and mirrors?I think it's time you guys packed it in.Hell, I guess we should just legalize heroin then.We need to plant functional seeds in this society, not based on drugs, but on less government waste in spending.If you want legal drugs find another country to go to.Keep drugs out of my America.

tenpoundsofcheese: CaptSacto: TheGreatZarquon: Pot is growable at home and therefore semi-free, and if taxed

I don't think you thought this all the way through. When it is grown at home, how do you expect the government to tax it???

I doubt the majority of users would be active growers, even if they could. Hell, I can't keep a damned spider plant alive, and those things would survive a nuclear attack.
You do raise a good point, though. My personal opinion is that there would need to be some sort of grower registration system. I see it requiring a definite location for where the crop is to be grown, and with GPS, that ain't that hard. I think this might reduce or eliminate the rogue farms on public lands that CAMP is so fond of publicizing. Also number of plants to be grown, with a small percentage tax deduction allowed for loss.
Then it's simply a matter of X dollars per X quantity produced and everyone's happy.
Dispensaries are already licensed and charged sales tax in most municipalities here, anyway.
Maybe that's too easy?

Washington, Oregon, and Cali have the best weed in the world. Where else would you find such godlike strains like white widow, G13, master kush, and true blueberry? NOWHERE!!! AMSTERDAM AINT GOT shiat ON US SON!!!

I'll have what he's having....

/jersey weed ain't nothing to frown at either
//unfortunately we don't have the luxury of doctor-shopping for a pot card

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: We need a spokesperson for the pot movement, somebody with a common enough name to show the world we mean business. A name like "Dave" would do just the trick. But he's not here, man.

I should check out this brochure.

Legalize it. Less money spent arresting people for silly pointless crimes and some tax revenue to boot.
Legalize same sex marriage too. More tax income as people spend money on weddings. Legalize prostitution too. That makes it safer and draws income for the state.

The governor suggested this about a month ago, and we're going to keep hearing it from different sources, especially with the budget crisis (IOUs?).

Also, medical marijuana is getting friendlier at a healthy pace here in southern CA. San Bernardino County and San Diego County are now passing out state government issued medical cards to all medical users. The dispensary raids are out of the news.

There is no reason cannabis should be illegal, sad fact that the deep pits of a state economical recession had to bring it to light.

QUICK LESSON IN HISTORY:

When I took my first toke on the killer weed "marihuana" in September 1965, we paid $15 per ounce for essentially a trash-grade product. The Dollar at the time was worth $58 per ounce of gold in absolute money.

Today top-quality "pot" retails for about $400/Oz, but it is about 6 times as strong, so you don't really need to smoke that much before you get so stoned you can't even

Gold closed at $920/Oz. the last time I checked, so factoring in the decline of the Dollar plus the increase in marijuana potency, the value of marijuana has increased 1008% in the last 44 years, while the Dollar has lost 93.7% of its purchasing power.

On the average, marijuana has increased in value 5.4% every one of those 44 years, while on average the Dollar has lost 6.5% of its value over the same period.

That says in effect, the value of marijuana over the last 44 years has consistently outperformed the value of the money which bought it, so the obvious conclusion is to get off the Dollar standard, forget about the Gold Standard and adopt marijuana as our standard of economic value.

"---For the experts advise me, the Dollar will keep sliding down,
So strike back at inflation, buy lots of Columbian pounds!"

Off-topic but worth consideration:

California has said they will pay their debts in IOUs which will mature at 3.75% APR in October.

But if you need the money now, I understand you can purchase them for cash at 85 cents on the Dollar.

It works out to 18.73% for 3 months, 98.75% in a year, and no guarantee they won't be just as f*cked up in three months as they are now. In fact, the reverse is likely.

If you have any money left over after paying taxes, I would go for it.

I support MPP and decriminalization.

Would love to be allowed to make massive amounts of chocolate chip cookies full of the good stuff. Sure would beat winding down with some piss-beer at the end of the day.

Fugit: If we legalize marijuana the brown people will rape the white woman.

/It's been proven with film.

I believe that was cocaine, my friend.

You know, back when coke-a-cola was super delish and black people WENT BATSHIAT CRAZY when they drank it.

MJ was those gosh darn mexicans.

/g.d. mexicans.

Considering that a lot of the private jails are paid to house criminals guilty of drug offenses and that a lot of police departments make extra cash from the property and money they seize from drug related crimes I'm certain this will never happen.

There is simply too much money at risk.

My cat has been recently diagnosed with stomach cancer (which is very treatable), but had to gain weight in order to be able to do chemo. I tried every legal drug available to help him overcome his nausea and increase his appetite, including one drug which costs $50 per tablet. Nothing worked. Finally, in desperation, I asked the vet whether I should try to use MJ. The vet said "Why not?". Since he's been on MJ, my cat has gained the necessary weight, he's eating on his own (as opposed to through the tube in his neck we had to put in), and best of all, he's happy and enjoying life. Medical marijuana has saved my cat's life, and may make it possible for him to beat cancer. Fark any government that tries to tell me how evil MJ is. Fark them right in the eye.

/the cat gets a tiny amount, strictly measured, every 12 hours, hidden in food
//I don't use the stuff anymore - I'm a programmer

El Chode: OMG CARL SAGAN

just getting that out of the way

Cali would make Billions and Billions if it was legalized.

benlonghair: Me, I think decriminalization is a good idea. So much more cost effective than throwing people in jail.

But by saying you want decriminalization instead of full legalization, you are saying you WANT the criminal black-market to thrive. Without legal sales, there violent, criminal gangs will continue to dominate the market.

With legalization, we can take those profits away from the gangs, and give it to some group that is regulated by society, pays taxes, etc. Without drug running, the gangs would lose one of their primary sources of funding.

Legalize it all, to remove the violence in ours streets. Legalize it all to help put gangs out of business.

/no, it's not a perfect plan. nothing is. But it's the one plan that directly addresses the violence problem

80 comments and still no link to the ad in question?
Lazy potheads..here ya go:

MPP AD (pops to video)

jaerik: Do we release them early, with our apologies? Would certainly save us an assload of money...

Yes. It's the moral thing to do, as part of a legalization plan. The money savings is just a (significant) bonus.

The prison guard union (one of the most powerful political lobbies in our state, along with the teacher's union) would never go for that.

Fark them.

Profits of the jailers is not a relevant concern in how we should design our laws. Throwing people in jail should not be decided by the desire for profit.

That's probably the biggest reason we have not legalized already, though: WAY too many people are profiting form the current situation. All the way up the enforcement chain, there's profit taking that could vanish overnight if we legalized it. With something like half of our arrests being made for non-violent drug offenses, that's a pretty significant chunk of police work we are paying for.

And fark them all. They can go back to worrying about real crime.

Anhydrous Dihydrogen Monoxide: Bet this is opposed by the prison unions. After all, this would cut down on a lot of their work.

/not really trying to troll

actually I think I read that they were supporting the idea... but don't ask me to provide a link, that's too...

/what

Cagey B: Decriminalize it. And then add cocaine, speed and all opiates to the list.

I will then personally volunteer to go around in a grizzly bear costume and jab people with needles full of black tar heroin. Watch the tax revenues pour in, baby.

That'a a bear assertion, and unsupported by evidence.

RealFarknMcCoy2: My cat has been recently diagnosed with stomach cancer (which is very treatable), but had to gain weight in order to be able to do chemo. I tried every legal drug available to help him overcome his nausea and increase his appetite, including one drug which costs $50 per tablet. Nothing worked. Finally, in desperation, I asked the vet whether I should try to use MJ. The vet said "Why not?". Since he's been on MJ, my cat has gained the necessary weight, he's eating on his own (as opposed to through the tube in his neck we had to put in), and best of all, he's happy and enjoying life. Medical marijuana has saved my cat's life, and may make it possible for him to beat cancer. Fark any government that tries to tell me how evil MJ is. Fark them right in the eye.

/the cat gets a tiny amount, strictly measured, every 12 hours, hidden in food
//I don't use the stuff anymore - I'm a programmer

Awesome.

Good luck kitty.

benlonghair: FTFA: "...an Oakland trade school that trains students to grow medical marijuana."

God bless California.

Me, I think decriminalization is a good idea. So much more cost effective than throwing people in jail.

Hate to break everyone's bubble, but most cops don't actually bust anyone for personal-use pot unless you also piss them off during the traffic stop. Before everyone jumps all over me, I got that straight from two real cops, who both said essentially they have better things to do than arrest knuckleheads all night long for a little bit of weed. (Cops hate paperwork more than they hate potheads)

Nobody would be happier not to arrest dopers than cops. Dope-SELLERS are a different story.

Kittypie070: "Prison industry."

Roll that around in your head for a few minutes.
Yeah, I already know about the unions.

"PRISON...INDUSTRY."

Go on, keep rolling it around!!

"PRISON...INDUSTRY."

Have you ever heard anything more f*cking terrifying!?

\damn it, it's worse than "Human Resources"!

\\what is that SMELL!?

A whole bunch o' THAT. A certain subset of the population gets very, very rich because we keep X number of people imprisoned.

No man should have a vested interest in keeping people imprisoned, save the interest of public safety.

RealFarknMcCoy2: My cat has been recently diagnosed with stomach cancer (which is very treatable), but had to gain weight in order to be able to do chemo. I tried every legal drug available to help him overcome his nausea and increase his appetite, including one drug which costs $50 per tablet. Nothing worked. Finally, in desperation, I asked the vet whether I should try to use MJ. The vet said "Why not?". Since he's been on MJ, my cat has gained the necessary weight, he's eating on his own (as opposed to through the tube in his neck we had to put in), and best of all, he's happy and enjoying life. Medical marijuana has saved my cat's life, and may make it possible for him to beat cancer. Fark any government that tries to tell me how evil MJ is. Fark them right in the eye.

/the cat gets a tiny amount, strictly measured, every 12 hours, hidden in food
//I don't use the stuff anymore - I'm a programmer

My er...friend's... cat won't let anyone bogart around him. He gets VERY affectionate when (and only when) he's hungry or someone is smokin'. If a bag is left where he can get to it, he'll pinch chunks several times a day. IOW, he's a darn cool cat.

For God's sake, just legalize it. Thread over.

The reason for high crime in this country is Marijuana.

Why can't people just follow the Rules?

Is there something out there that makes you do So?

Obviously, it doesn't help anybody Much.

It makes you eat junk food and sit on your Ass.

//eat it.

I'm down with MPP. Ya you know me.

/DNRTFA

Gyrfalcon - Hate to break everyone's bubble, but most cops don't actually bust anyone for personal-use pot unless you also piss them off during the traffic stop.


Your anecdotal story from 2 cops in your area hardly encompasses all law enforcement across our country.

Cops in Compton have been told to basically stop writing simple possessions, cops in Arizona charge you with a felony for possession of even a single joint.

I personally have gotten 3 possession tickets, 2 initiated by minor traffic violations, where I was polite as can be and did nothing to provoke the officers. I know too many people who have been issued simple possession tickets while not doing a damn thing, some cops around here will even tell you they smelled marijuana coming from your direction and search you on the spot.

D_Evans45:
Cops in Compton have been told to basically stop writing simple possessions, cops in Arizona charge you with a felony for possession of even a single joint.

In the shiat hole known as West Virginia they'll fine you more for carrying less than 10 ounces of pot than a DUI.

I don't smoke pot, but the sooner they legalize it the better IMO.

cancerous86: The reason for high crime in this country is Marijuana.

Why can't people just follow the Rules?

Is there something out there that makes you do So?

Obviously, it doesn't help anybody Much.

It makes you eat junk food and sit on your Ass.

//eat it.



/link is hotter than the buds burning in my pipe

pdkl95: That's probably the biggest reason we have not legalized already, though: WAY too many people are profiting form the current situation. All the way up the enforcement chain, there's profit taking that could vanish overnight if we legalized it. With something like half of our arrests being made for non-violent drug offenses, that's a pretty significant chunk of police work we are paying for.

And fark them all. They can go back to worrying about real crime.

Hey, those helicopters, tactical gear loadouts, surveillance devices, prison locks, razor wire fences, etc aren't selling themselves.

It occurred to me today: just about every single law enforcement agency in the United States, no matter how small or large, now keeps a kennel of dogs. Expensive dogs that are put through rigorous training by a small number of select firms. Somebody's found their racket, and is making bank.

Gyrfalcon: benlonghair: FTFA: "...an Oakland trade school that trains students to grow medical marijuana."

God bless California.

Me, I think decriminalization is a good idea. So much more cost effective than throwing people in jail.

Hate to break everyone's bubble, but most cops don't actually bust anyone for personal-use pot unless you also piss them off during the traffic stop. Before everyone jumps all over me, I got that straight from two real cops, who both said essentially they have better things to do than arrest knuckleheads all night long for a little bit of weed. (Cops hate paperwork more than they hate potheads)

Nobody would be happier not to arrest dopers than cops. Dope-SELLERS are a different story.

I call BS. There was a guy a couple apartments over from mine who was rushed and shot by cops raiding his apartment for marijuana. They found a few grams worth.

Akuinnen - In the shiat hole known as West Virginia they'll fine you more for carrying less than 10 ounces of pot than a DUI.

Goddamn. Makes me sad when I hear some of the ass backward policies in existence in our country over something that's relatively harmless, especially compared to something that takes thousands of lives every year (the DUIs you mentioned).

Need_MindBleach: Gyrfalcon: benlonghair: FTFA: "...an Oakland trade school that trains students to grow medical marijuana."

God bless California.

Me, I think decriminalization is a good idea. So much more cost effective than throwing people in jail.

Hate to break everyone's bubble, but most cops don't actually bust anyone for personal-use pot unless you also piss them off during the traffic stop. Before everyone jumps all over me, I got that straight from two real cops, who both said essentially they have better things to do than arrest knuckleheads all night long for a little bit of weed. (Cops hate paperwork more than they hate potheads)

Nobody would be happier not to arrest dopers than cops. Dope-SELLERS are a different story.

I call BS. There was a guy a couple apartments over from mine who was rushed and shot by cops raiding his apartment for marijuana. They found a few grams worth.

Yea buddy, sorry. TWO cops aren't going to convince me that they won't arrest you for possession. Hell, I'd even bet they wanted you to say you were holding some. It looks great for them, gets more funding for the precinct (the more tickets/arrests you make, the more money you get), and oftentimes looks fun to them. I've met a cop who had a lax view on marijuana. I've also known one (like the cop two houses down from me, drives a goddamn motorcycle) who abhors marijuana. I know this cause I've seen him arrest kids in my neighborhood who were smoking at the park. Ask some more and see how many say they don't care. And make sure it's in a state that hasn't semi-legalized it.

Even though I'm for legalization, I don't think you can fix the money problem in California by pumping drugs into it.

We're already pretty lazy and stupid.

But even if it put untold millions into our economy, we would eventually end up at the same place we are now.

We need to fix the problem of hemorrhaging cash into useless endeavors.
We need to scrutinize the people who are recieving money for services, and throw out the chaff.

Taxing pot is a neat idea, but we need to nail down our other stuff first.
Remember how the lottery was gonna fix our schools and roads?