In Rome, during the late Republic, the Veterans would come home from the wars to find all they had was taken in taxes and sold to the rich. Their lands were tilled by slaves and they were left penniless and broken to fend for themselves as best they could. These men were promised land and rewards for their service and paid with poverty. Men trained by the State in the art and science of war are dangerous tools, without hope they may be wielded by dangerous men. The Republic fell in the small part to this kind of behavior when Caesar and subsequent Emperors provided for the welfare of the Veterans to curry support.

I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

Ennuipoet: I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

yep

Sad tag busy elsewhere, subby?

Too bad we don't have an utter farking disgrace tag.

basemetal: Ennuipoet: I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

yep

I hope you are both wrong.

That's what happens when you use Medicaid. The state that pays out Medicaid payments gets to bill your estate when you die. Actually, it's more than "gets to", the state is required by federal law to sue the estate to recover certain costs, including all nursing home care.

Weaver95: basemetal: Ennuipoet: I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

yep

I hope you are both wrong.

You hope history is boring?

Pretty much hogwash.

When you die, what you have stands good for what you owe. If there is a surplus, your heirs inherit, but if there's a shortfall, your creditors lose.

That is why all my property is tied up in a living trust, where I have "sold" it to various people for $10o cash in hand and "other good and valuable considerations," but while I am alive I have full use of the property--as well as the right to cancel the sale at any time, upon refund of $10, and the buyer has no recourse.

Thus when I croak, other people get all my property instantly, there are no wills, no courts, no lawyers--nothing.

If you sue, $10 is all you collect.

If the guy didn't have his stuff in order, it was all his own fault.

Sum Dum Gai: That's what happens when you use Medicaid. The state that pays out Medicaid payments gets to bill your estate when you die. Actually, it's more than "gets to", the state is required by federal law to sue the estate to recover certain costs, including all nursing home care.

Yes, when you go into a nursing home whatever you have in the way of social security, etc. gets signed over to them.

This guy no doubt received way more in benefits than his money will ever cover, sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I'd sign up for it.

/The problem with America is we don't seem to understand what an entitlement is and what things really cost. taking too much fro granted...

He should have taken the time to ensure his girlfriend would be in the clear once he died. Sounds like they assumed since she was part owner his half would automatically go to her, unfortunately, that isn't true.

I do love how they made her his "common law wife" so they could go after her specifically.

I'm sure all the "Support our Troops" magnets got him into heaven though.

It seems that his status as a veteran is incidental to this story. He received care under Medicaid, not veteran's benefits. I don't know why anyone would object to welfare beneficiaries paying back what they receive from their assets. Frankly, I wonder why he qualified in the first place.

You get medicaid while you have exempt assets and when you die they'll go after them.

It's probably not going to amount to anything in this case because I think the assets are still exempt so long as she lives. The state will get the property when she dies, though.

I see nothing wrong except perhaps a letter that's not clear enough.

Medical care is a service which must be paid for with money.

For some reason, when someone receives a large hospital bill for the huge number of complicated procedures performed on their bodies, they throw a fit.

You don't stiff your plumber for fixing your pipes.

You don't stiff your mechanic for fixing your car.

Why stiff your doctor for fixing your body?

Ennuipoet: In Rome, during the late Republic, the Veterans would come home from the wars to find all they had was taken in taxes and sold to the rich. Their lands were tilled by slaves and they were left penniless and broken to fend for themselves as best they could. These men were promised land and rewards for their service and paid with poverty. Men trained by the State in the art and science of war are dangerous tools, without hope they may be wielded by dangerous men. The Republic fell in the small part to this kind of behavior when Caesar and subsequent Emperors provided for the welfare of the Veterans to curry support.

I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

I always heard it had something to do with Roman provincial officials offering food to starving Goths in exchange for using their daughters as concubines, and then forgetting to give them the food.

It was probably the same guys doing both.

Ennuipoet: In Rome, during the late Republic, the Veterans would come home from the wars to find all they had was taken in taxes and sold to the rich. Their lands were tilled by slaves and they were left penniless and broken to fend for themselves as best they could. These men were promised land and rewards for their service and paid with poverty. Men trained by the State in the art and science of war are dangerous tools, without hope they may be wielded by dangerous men. The Republic fell in the small part to this kind of behavior when Caesar and subsequent Emperors provided for the welfare of the Veterans to curry support.

I'm just saying, you know, history is pretty interesting.

It also doesn't really compare, does it? Complete failure to grasp the situation.

olddinosaur: Pretty much hogwash.

When you die, what you have stands good for what you owe. If there is a surplus, your heirs inherit, but if there's a shortfall, your creditors lose.

That is why all my property is tied up in a living trust, where I have "sold" it to various people for $10o cash in hand and "other good and valuable considerations," but while I am alive I have full use of the property--as well as the right to cancel the sale at any time, upon refund of $10, and the buyer has no recourse.

Thus when I croak, other people get all my property instantly, there are no wills, no courts, no lawyers--nothing.

If you sue, $10 is all you collect.

If the guy didn't have his stuff in order, it was all his own fault.

I certainly hope you didn't pay too much for that trust. It won't work that way in any jurisdiction with which I'm familiar. You can't transfer money from your left pocket to your right pocket and claim "This is no longer mine, although I can still use it freely. No creditor can claim it because I say so."

Laughable that anyone thinks that would be successful.

SnakeLee: You hope history is boring?

I know that's not the actual point you are referencing, but it does bring up something that bothers me. A lot of people DO find history boring. I never understood it until I took a University history course, and then it dawned on me. History's entertainment lies in how it is presented to you. Researching some obscure fact for a class you hate? Boring. Being forced to read about a subject that doesn't interest you, and written in prose that makes the sahara seem overly humid? Boring. Lecturer who drones on about the subject with minimal enthusiasm? Boring.

I like history when I read about stuff I'm passionate about, or when I hear historical facts/events as told by a dynamic (and obviously passionate) individual.

How hard do professors/educators/textbook publishers work to make subjects like the Roman Empire, the middle ages, and the cold war, so amazingly boring? Those are fascinating times, with amazing lessons and events. But because they're presented in the same manner as dry toast, most people assume history is boring by association.

It's maddening.

Subby says he owes VA but he was on Medicaid. So I am confused. VA should be a benefit and he wouldn't owe, otherwise he wouldn't have qualified to be there. Medicaid, on the other hand, loves to get its money back through estate recovery. Sounds like things weren't fully explained.

Mewling liberals, they think someone else should have to pay for their medical care. A veteran is man enough to die for his country when he is young, so he should be willing when he is old and destitute. It's disgraceful that so many of them turn into socialists when they get old.

Famousp:

You don't stiff your veterans for saving your freakin' ass and way of life.

/FTFY

Yes he was a vet but his injuries that required care were the result of a workplace injury in 1990, not something that happened in Vietnam. This isn't a VA issue, it's a Medicaid issue and he just happened to be using VA facilities.
Should the VA be taking care of vets who were injured in the line of duty free of charge? Yes. Should the VA be taking care of vets injured on the job 20 years later free of charge? No way. He spent his insurance pay-out on property instead of medical care.

I did not know this. I sincerely doubt my grandmother knows this. Well, so much for her house I guess. The hospital sends her bills all the time and she rips them up saying "Medicare is supposed to pay for it all". I'd kill for a $32 bill for a trip to the emergency room.

famousp: Why stiff your doctor for fixing your body?

Getting your car or your plumbing fixed doesn't cost more then your entire assets accumulated over a lifetime.

I busted my ass my entire life trying hard in school, reading, studying, etc etc etc.

I didn't party hard, I didn't fark around, and I spent my youth trying to work towards greatness.

The government gives some hick a gun, tells him to pull the trigger, and he's supposed to be taken care of for life?fark that shiat!

Soldiers are peons.

People who cure cancer are heroes.

beer4breakfast: famousp: Why stiff your doctor for fixing your body?

Getting your car or your plumbing fixed doesn't cost more then your entire assets accumulated over a lifetime.

Then you should die and let your assets pass intact to your heirs.

"apiarist:" I have checked it with many lawyers and it is legal.

If I had $1 billion plus, that would be a different story, but I am a fairly modest man, not at all rich.

As such, I can sell my house, my car, and my other property to anyone I wish, and since the value of the prize is not equal to the cost of the suit, the case is void.

I owned a piece of land, sold it to someone, contingent that I could live there all my life, and cancel at any time.

They agreed to the terms, I agreed to sell. Fair dinkum, cobber.

Case closed.

Cheesus: I did not know this. I sincerely doubt my grandmother knows this. Well, so much for her house I guess. The hospital sends her bills all the time and she rips them up saying "Medicare is supposed to pay for it all". I'd kill for a $32 bill for a trip to the emergency room.

Um, Medicare /= Medicaid.

famousp:
For some reason, when someone receives a large hospital bill for the huge number of complicated procedures performed on their bodies, they throw a fit.

You don't stiff your plumber for fixing your pipes.

You don't stiff your mechanic for fixing your car.

Why stiff your doctor for fixing your body?

If my pipes still leaked, that plumber wouldn't be getting paid.
If my transmission still slipped, I'd expect the mechanic to look at it again if he expects his money.
If those doctors expect to be paid, they shouldn't have let the guy die!
This isn't waiting tables- they shouldn't just expect to be paid even when they do a bad job!

/not serious

Anyone who thinks the system you have now for healthcare is better than the way most other socialized countries run theirs are complete fools.

Every story like this should reinforce why the system needs to change, but then again, nobody cares until it happens to them. So aslong as its not happening to you, good old capitalism belongs in healthcare right?

TheOtherGuy: Famousp:

You don't stiff your veterans for saving your freakin' ass and way of life.

/FTFY

Incorrect. He fought in Vietnam.

olddinosaur: That is why all my property is tied up in a living trust, where I have "sold" it to various people for $10o cash in hand and "other good and valuable considerations," but while I am alive I have full use of the property--as well as the right to cancel the sale at any time, upon refund of $10, and the buyer has no recourse.

Thus when I croak, other people get all my property instantly, there are no wills, no courts, no lawyers--nothing.

If you sue, $10 is all you collect.

If the guy didn't have his stuff in order, it was all his own fault.

A revocable living trust doesn't help at all if you or your estate gets sued by creditors, in fact it actually works against your interests; with probate, the creditor has a limited time in which to sue the estate, and since a living trust bypasses probate, it bypasses that as well.

An irrevocable living trust can protect some of your assets, but a) this transfer of assets counts against your eligibility for Medicaid in the first place, and b) you lose all control of the assets except as specified by the terms of the trust; you can't modify the terms of the trust or anything. Creditors can only take those assets that your fund gives you.

Retort: TheOtherGuy: Famousp:

You don't stiff your veterans for saving your freakin' ass and way of life.

/FTFY

Incorrect. He fought in Vietnam.

yeah.. that whole communism thing was totally cool

Actually, TFA says that it was a "state-run veterans home". That leads me to believe that it was not a VA facility.

Sum Dum Gai: olddinosaur: That is why all my property is tied up in a living trust, where I have "sold" it to various people for $10o cash in hand and "other good and valuable considerations," but while I am alive I have full use of the property--as well as the right to cancel the sale at any time, upon refund of $10, and the buyer has no recourse.

Thus when I croak, other people get all my property instantly, there are no wills, no courts, no lawyers--nothing.

If you sue, $10 is all you collect.

If the guy didn't have his stuff in order, it was all his own fault.

A revocable living trust doesn't help at all if you or your estate gets sued by creditors, in fact it actually works against your interests; with probate, the creditor has a limited time in which to sue the estate, and since a living trust bypasses probate, it bypasses that as well.

An irrevocable living trust can protect some of your assets, but a) this transfer of assets counts against your eligibility for Medicaid in the first place, and b) you lose all control of the assets except as specified by the terms of the trust; you can't modify the terms of the trust or anything. Creditors can only take those assets that your fund gives you.

It seems to me that it's just a better idea to gift or sell on the cheap everything to your heirs when you know your time is coming and in return ask for a stipend from their income, banked against the value of your assets when you die. If you trust your kids, do it when you retire.

chu2dogg: Retort: TheOtherGuy: Famousp:

You don't stiff your veterans for saving your freakin' ass and way of life.

/FTFY

Incorrect. He fought in Vietnam.

yeah.. that whole communism thing was totally cool

I'm sorry, did the Vietnam war take place in America?

That war was something you should all be horribly ashamed of.

olddinosaur: "apiarist:" I have checked it with many lawyers and it is legal.

If I had $1 billion plus, that would be a different story, but I am a fairly modest man, not at all rich.

As such, I can sell my house, my car, and my other property to anyone I wish, and since the value of the prize is not equal to the cost of the suit, the case is void.

I owned a piece of land, sold it to someone, contingent that I could live there all my life, and cancel at any time.

They agreed to the terms, I agreed to sell. Fair dinkum, cobber.

Case closed.

Maybe you should check with competent lawyers.

Retort: It seems to me that it's just a better idea to gift or sell on the cheap everything to your heirs when you know your time is coming and in return ask for a stipend from their income, banked against the value of your assets when you die. If you trust your kids, do it when you retire.

Even that counts against your medicaid eligibility for the next five years, so you'd have to do it at least 5 years before you needed medicaid.

apiarist: Cheesus: I did not know this. I sincerely doubt my grandmother knows this. Well, so much for her house I guess. The hospital sends her bills all the time and she rips them up saying "Medicare is supposed to pay for it all". I'd kill for a $32 bill for a trip to the emergency room.

Um, Medicare /= Medicaid.

Huh, so they are. I grew up with my grandparents and they never bothered to tell me anything about them. I figured they were both the same thing, but people just said them differently.

Ahha! I was wondering where all this hope and change was going to start popping up. Found it!

Hardly surprising and probably similar to what is going to happen to most small estates of people who linger on under medical care going forward. Not all of those procedures you get will be covered so if you want to pass something to your heirs you'd better die fast - not after a lingering illness that costs you first your job, then your health insurance, then all your assets.

Personally I plan to just have some of my ashes sent to each of my creditors.

olddinosaur: "apiarist:" I have checked it with many lawyers and it is legal.

If I had $1 billion plus, that would be a different story, but I am a fairly modest man, not at all rich.

As such, I can sell my house, my car, and my other property to anyone I wish, and since the value of the prize is not equal to the cost of the suit, the case is void.

I owned a piece of land, sold it to someone, contingent that I could live there all my life, and cancel at any time.

They agreed to the terms, I agreed to sell. Fair dinkum, cobber.

Case closed.

You should have saved your money, if you really consulted with "many lawyers". Google the Uniform Fraudulent Transfers Act. Since you didn't really part with control over the assets, the "transfer" didn't take place until your death or insolvency. You're toast. Unless, of course, you don't live in the United States. If you really live in Australia, I doubt that the law is different, but I'm not licensed to practice there.

oh - and then have them sued for 'improper disposal of human remains'

Doppleganger871: Ahha! I was wondering where all this hope and change was going to start popping up. Found it!

Are you mentally retarded?

olddinosaur: I have checked it with many lawyers and it is legal.

If I had $1 billion plus, that would be a different story, but I am a fairly modest man, not at all rich.

As such, I can sell my house, my car, and my other property to anyone I wish, and since the value of the prize is not equal to the cost of the suit, the case is void.

I owned a piece of land, sold it to someone, contingent that I could live there all my life, and cancel at any time.

They agreed to the terms, I agreed to sell. Fair dinkum, cobber.

Case closed.

Yes, of course it's legal. It just doesn't offer any protection against creditors.

The reason it offers no protection from litigation is the 'cancel at any time' provision. That makes it an asset under your control, as you can claim the asset at any time, and that makes it fair game for any lawsuit against you or your estate.

Only in an irrevocable trust can you protect an asset from a lawsuit -- for example, if you set up a trust that pays you $1500 per month until you die or the trust is out of money. Then a creditor could take the $1500 each month, but they couldn't take the assets in the trust itself. The downside is neither can you -- the assets you put in the trust can never be reclaimed by you, and if you need more than $1500, you're out of luck, there's nothing anyone can do.

dave2198: Doppleganger871: Ahha! I was wondering where all this hope and change was going to start popping up. Found it!

Are you mentally retarded?

Nope, liberalism is the mental disorder.

But, imagine this happening to everyone else who is taken care of under state-run medical coverage. Not too far-fetched.

olddinosaur: "apiarist:" I have checked it with many lawyers and it is legal.



As such, I can sell my house, my car, and my other property to anyone I wish, and since the value of the prize is not equal to the cost of the suit, the case is void.



So it doesn't sound like what you are doing is legal, but you'll get away with it because you don't make enough money for the creditors to figure it's worth fighting for.

Retort: I'm sorry, did the Vietnam war take place in America?

That war was something you should all be horribly ashamed of.

Why should we be ashamed of a tie?!

This just in: Debts owed will be levied against your estate.

As they should be.

"sum Dum Gai:" You are probably technically correct, but I am practically correct.

If I owe you money and I croak, what I own stands good for what I owe, so I intend to croak owing as little as possible.

If you wish to launch a lawsuit against my estate, trying to recover $1-5K in debt by seizing a piece of land worth $10-15 K, at a cost of $25 K+, be my guest! You may win---but if you do, you will be like the King of Phyrrus, who said after winning a battle at too high a cost: "One more victory like that, and I am ruined!"

The general idea is, hold as little property as you can and sell off everything before you die, so that you die broke, or as near so as possible.

This guy in the article f*cked up, he kept everything in his own name, instead of transferring it quietly to the chick. So he dies owning land worth money, against which he owes a tidy sum; the chick gets nothing, because it does not look like they were married---another mistake!

My father passed away recently, and owned a house in Key West worth $960 large, but also owing huge medical bills for many years of long-term care. He retired worth almost a million, but he died broke.

And yes, he put his ass on the line: Navy Commander, 20 years' service, Navy Cross, Purple Heart, Air Medal, WW II Victory Medal, and numerous lesser citations.

DaShredda:


Soldiers are peons.

People who cure cancer are heroes.

Soldiers win wars. I have yet to see a cure for cancer. Soldiers 1, Cancer curers 0.