Brilliant.

FTFA: The government jobs report for June Thursday pointed to a continued slowdown in the wave of layoffs that has sidelined more than six million workers since the recession began in Dec., 2007. Once that pace of layoffs eases and the unemployment rate peaks, consumers may get back into a spending mood, according to Merrill Lynch economist Drew Matus.

This is like saying the number of nuclear detonations has slowed down, indicating a possible recovery from WWIII.

Workers are still being laid off in huge numbers. Employers are still cutting the pay of those whom they continue to employee. Until this crap stops, the economy is not going to "recover."

It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

Fark Me To Tears: Workers are still being laid off in huge numbers. Employers are still cutting the pay of those whom they continue to employee.

FTFM

/unemployed
//forgetting how to type

Fark Me To Tears: This is like saying the number of nuclear detonations has slowed down, indicating a possible recovery from WWIII.

That's not a very good analogy. Layoffs have slowed down, and since unemployment is generally considered to be a lagging metric in gauging the economy, we may very well be coming out of the woods.

The stimulus bill will...
/nm

Fark Me To Tears: Employers don't seem to understand this.

Employers don't seem to understand a lot of things and that is one of the greatest problems I see in this country.

Damn those jobless consumers! Get out there and spend spend spend! Damn slackers!

Oh, and buy a house while you're at it!

/oh, and uh pay us more taxes, the gov coffers are a bit low right now...

Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks.

[sarcasm]You obviously have never taken a class in economics. Because, according to the latest wonderful ideas in economics, everyone in America is a consumer with a 6 figure income who can spend all that cash on crap made in China. Outsourcing all jobs to China won't hurt at all, because everyone in America has no job that will be shipped to China, so it all works out. We outsource the jobs, but that will help this nation of 6 figure, unemployed consumers because they will pay less for Chinese crap. Now does it make sense? [/sarcasm]

// never made sense to me either.

Godless atheists will hold back the rapture too.

I don't understand. For years people lived beyond their means. Why would not having a job matter?

/have you seen how big plasma TV's are lately?
//life's not worth living without an iPhone

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: The government jobs report for June Thursday pointed to a continued slowdown in the wave of layoffs that has sidelined more than six million workers since the recession began in Dec., 2007. Once that pace of layoffs eases and the unemployment rate peaks, consumers may get back into a spending mood, according to Merrill Lynch economist Drew Matus.

This is like saying the number of nuclear detonations has slowed down, indicating a possible recovery from WWIII.

Workers are still being laid off in huge numbers. Employers are still cutting the pay of those whom they continue to employee. Until this crap stops, the economy is not going to "recover."

It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

One of my co-workers is fond of reading the business press (e are in project accounting) and forwards articles to our Regional Vice President.

I was really stunned at how excited she got about an article a month ago that stated unemployment hadn't gone up as much in the prior month. Most of us grasped that just because news isn't as bad doesn't necessarily make it good news.

How about... the lack of jobs other than min. wage fast food bullshiat will hold back recovery, because people would rather be unemployed than take the worst kind of work for the least amount of pay.

China's doin' pretty good right now though... with all those manufacturing jobs that we used to have here. Guess someone should have told the rich elite that moving all the good jobs out of the US was a bad idea, because now that most people can't make decent money they don't have any to spend on the useless shiat we used to buy in droves, and that's what was keeping the great beast of capitalism alive and well all these years.

I think we should tax people standing in water.

/NIOOF

maddogdelta: Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks.

[sarcasm]You obviously have never taken a class in economics. Because, according to the latest wonderful ideas in economics, everyone in America is a consumer with a 6 figure income who can spend all that cash on crap made in China. Outsourcing all jobs to China won't hurt at all, because everyone in America has no job that will be shipped to China, so it all works out. We outsource the jobs, but that will help this nation of 6 figure, unemployed consumers because they will pay less for Chinese crap. Now does it make sense? [/sarcasm]

// never made sense to me either.

We need to go over there, steal of a bunch of those Chinese people, and open up factories in the USA but still pay them Chinese wages. We can put them in Nebraska, I hear that's fairly empty.

It's also not Ric Romero.

Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

That's like saying that the rain isn't going to stop until the water stops hitting the ground.

Apparently your suggestion is to continue employing people you can barely pay to keep producing things that people can't afford. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.

I would have assumed the jobless people would be the best spenders with how forgiving the credit card companies are.. low interest rates.. and, don;t forget tinkerbell!

elchip: Fark Me To Tears: This is like saying the number of nuclear detonations has slowed down, indicating a possible recovery from WWIII.

That's not a very good analogy. Layoffs have slowed down, and since unemployment is generally considered to be a lagging metric in gauging the economy, we may very well be coming out of the woods.

Um, THIS.

But don't let that stop your absorbtion of the media WHARR.

jonny_q: Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

That's like saying that the rain isn't going to stop until the water stops hitting the ground.

Apparently your suggestion is to continue employing people you can barely pay to keep producing things that people can't afford. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.

This reminds me of a few years back when this rich basketball player's pay was going to get cut, and he was on the news bellyaching about how "he wan't going to be able to feed his family on justa few million a year."

What I'm trying to say, is that most of the companies in this country CAN afford to pay MOST of their employees A LOT more than they do. They don't though, and when it comes up they biatch about the overhead and how it would bankrupt them and blah, blah, blah... while the top ten positions in said corp. make millions a year for going on vacations, snorting blow offa hookers asses, and generally not doing a single damn productive thing. And if those companies have that kind of money to pay the least productive members of the business, and to blow on things like "golden parachutes", then they most certainly have enough to pay their people on the front line a few more bucks an hour.

I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

FunkOut: maddogdelta: Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks.

[sarcasm]You obviously have never taken a class in economics. Because, according to the latest wonderful ideas in economics, everyone in America is a consumer with a 6 figure income who can spend all that cash on crap made in China. Outsourcing all jobs to China won't hurt at all, because everyone in America has no job that will be shipped to China, so it all works out. We outsource the jobs, but that will help this nation of 6 figure, unemployed consumers because they will pay less for Chinese crap. Now does it make sense? [/sarcasm]

// never made sense to me either.

We need to go over there, steal of a bunch of those Chinese people, and open up factories in the USA but still pay them Chinese wages. We can put them in Nebraska, I hear that's fairly empty.

Nebraska is not empty, we are growing the corn and cows that feed the country.

Oh, layoffs and unemployment numbers will "ease"... because soon there won't BE anyone left to lay off!

What we should do is form a council that oversees all business in the US. Everyone would be the same no matter what they do. The council would take results from school testing and place each person in a job they are suited for, and the council would also decide what needs to be produced and sold. I think that sounds pretty fair. Oh, wait... never mind. CEO's SUCK!

labberdasher 2009-07-05 02:41:23 PM
I think we should tax people standing in water.

/NIOOF

Forgive me for failing at the intarwebz ... but what is NIOOF?
The google, it does nothing.

Brilliant submitter line.

/works for the gov't. Just got off of 68+ OT weeks. We have our own fund.

//Gots me a lots of new electronics.

///Sucks to be the rest of you.

JRoo: FunkOut: maddogdelta: Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks.

[sarcasm]You obviously have never taken a class in economics. Because, according to the latest wonderful ideas in economics, everyone in America is a consumer with a 6 figure income who can spend all that cash on crap made in China. Outsourcing all jobs to China won't hurt at all, because everyone in America has no job that will be shipped to China, so it all works out. We outsource the jobs, but that will help this nation of 6 figure, unemployed consumers because they will pay less for Chinese crap. Now does it make sense? [/sarcasm]

// never made sense to me either.

We need to go over there, steal of a bunch of those Chinese people, and open up factories in the USA but still pay them Chinese wages. We can put them in Nebraska, I hear that's fairly empty.

Nebraska is not empty, we are growing the corn and cows that feed the country.

Could you just let the Chinese workers sleep with the cows then? They'll keep each other warm.

I just got the "fark you in 60 days" letter 2 days ago from my company. Reasons why my company lost the project:

a)The middle/upper management try to run the place some kind of Sweatshop in Bangalore. Routinely clearing out veteran employees that do quality work to fill their spots with new untrained people making less and doing a shiatty job.

b)When they expect spikes of volume, they know about it a month or more ahead of time, and start pointing people up/etc to force them to work overtime, instead of, you know, motivating, they manipulate.

c)The middle/upper management are like.. 12. Or may as well be, they have the management acumen of your typical person with a business degree, IE: farking none, and no actual other job skills, again, like your typical person with a business degree.

d)People with a business degree and no technical acumen or experience shouldn't be training people to perform technical positions. Me and a few others essentially had to retrain all the new people, because of this, for oh, the last year or more now. The trainer is a furry obsessed with squirrels, and teaches about that instead of the job.

e)the project manager can barely type an email that is legible language. He is a white guy from Ohio, but just mind numbingly retarded.

I can't wait to suck that company for 52 weeks of unemployment, they deserve to go under.

Cyrus982: What I'm trying to say, is that most of the companies in this country CAN afford to pay MOST of their employees A LOT more than they do. They don't though, and when it comes up they biatch about the overhead and how it would bankrupt them and blah, blah, blah... I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

I'm really having trouble telling if people are serious today.

It's a free market. Go work somewhere they do pay more for the same work.

Also, underpaying employees is a sure-fire way to get low quality work. Yes, it happens.

I think you're way overestimating McD's profit margins, especially at franchise stores. Sure, they could afford to pay everyone $10 if you want the burgers to be $10, too, at which point you'd just go eat somewhere else. If you're worth being paid $10/hr, then go get a real job somewhere other than McD's. My first job out of college paid less than that.

Don't like the crappy service you're getting from those minimum wage McD's employees? Don't eat there. It will change. I've seen plenty of fast food places fail around here for that reason.

So, some employers are evil. So what. If that's true, then the good guys will be able to do a better job competing.

Hey, there's something missing in this "slowing of layoffs" scenario. Lemme think, lemme think. Oh, I know. Maybe it's that even if it finally STOPS (the layoffs) that doesn't mean all the unemployed are going to start working again right away. Something the news seems to just skip over. Just sayin'.

First the f#$@ers won't get a job, now they're holding back my recovery? wth?

Cyrus982: I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

How can you assume the first part? Have you been doing research on McDonald's? I'll agree that the higher ups in the company probably make more than enough money to provide lower end workers a better wage and they don't. Forcing them to pay employees more does nothing. They pass the raises onto the consumer by raising prices to compensate, then the money I make is worth less and I need a raise from my boss.

jonny_q: So, some employers are evil. So what. If that's true, then the good guys will be able to do a better job competing.

With that attitude slaver and child labor would still exist. There wold be no minimum wage that only gets raised once every few decades. Sometimes you have to force evil people to act more decently.

Cyrus982: jonny_q: Fark Me To Tears: It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

That's like saying that the rain isn't going to stop until the water stops hitting the ground.

Apparently your suggestion is to continue employing people you can barely pay to keep producing things that people can't afford. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.

This reminds me of a few years back when this rich basketball player's pay was going to get cut, and he was on the news bellyaching about how "he wan't going to be able to feed his family on justa few million a year."

What I'm trying to say, is that most of the companies in this country CAN afford to pay MOST of their employees A LOT more than they do. They don't though, and when it comes up they biatch about the overhead and how it would bankrupt them and blah, blah, blah... while the top ten positions in said corp. make millions a year for going on vacations, snorting blow offa hookers asses, and generally not doing a single damn productive thing. And if those companies have that kind of money to pay the least productive members of the business, and to blow on things like "golden parachutes", then they most certainly have enough to pay their people on the front line a few more bucks an hour.

I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

Egalitarian wiener is egalitarian.

jonny_q: Cyrus982: What I'm trying to say, is that most of the companies in this country CAN afford to pay MOST of their employees A LOT more than they do. They don't though, and when it comes up they biatch about the overhead and how it would bankrupt them and blah, blah, blah... I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

I'm really having trouble telling if people are serious today.

It's a free market. Go work somewhere they do pay more for the same work.

Also, underpaying employees is a sure-fire way to get low quality work. Yes, it happens.

I think you're way overestimating McD's profit margins, especially at franchise stores. Sure, they could afford to pay everyone $10 if you want the burgers to be $10, too, at which point you'd just go eat somewhere else. If you're worth being paid $10/hr, then go get a real job somewhere other than McD's. My first job out of college paid less than that.

Don't like the crappy service you're getting from those minimum wage McD's employees? Don't eat there. It will change. I've seen plenty of fast food places fail around here for that reason.

So, some employers are evil. So what. If that's true, then the good guys will be able to do a better job competing.

It must be nice to live in your fantasy world, where people do well based on things like "good business" and employees earn wages based on things like "merit" and "skill", because the real world is the exact opposite...

In the real world, people can't just "go work someplace else." For the last six months I've been signed up to job sites that e-mail you when companies in the area are hiring, and for the last six months every single last "career opportunity" has been some shiatty fast food place that only pays min. wage. Well, except the Joan Fabrics one from a few months ago... but I don't have a vagina so I doubt they would have hired me. (That probably only payed min. wage to though.) I've applied to other stores and haven't heard anything back.

And how the hell does paying their employess an extra $2.50 jack up the price of burgers $8.50? If anything, it might jack it up .25 cents or so, which almost everyone would still pay. They wouldn't even have to jack up the price of merchandise if the top 50% of corporate took a slight, almost unnoticeable pay cut... but God forbid they only have enough to buy 2 yachts this year instead of 3.

I guess I could go to college, and get a real job instead... but I just don't have a spare 100,000 bucks lying around. And I just don't feel right dropping that much on what really just amounts to "a slight chance of maybe sometime in the future getting a slightly better job than you could maybe get right now."

Lol, and you actually think that evil businesses will be fazed out by good ones. Lol, have you looked around lately? Evil Business is the standard today. It's WHY the economy has turned to shiat. Because Big Business used, abused and gutted the middle and lower class to make a few extra bucks. Then they shipped every decent job to some other country so that they could save a few pennies. All the while we can't do anything against them because they practically own the government, and idiots like you never stop jumping up to defend them...

I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...

Cyrus982:
I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...

Because they have a basic understanding of economics?

moothemagiccow: Cyrus982: I mean, places like McDonald's makes more money than god ina single year, and you're telling me they can't afford to pay everyone 10 bucks an hour instead of min. wage? Bullshiat.

They just don't want to, and they never will unless they're forced to.

How can you assume the first part? Have you been doing research on McDonald's? I'll agree that the higher ups in the company probably make more than enough money to provide lower end workers a better wage and they don't. Forcing them to pay employees more does nothing. They pass the raises onto the consumer by raising prices to compensate, then the money I make is worth less and I need a raise from my boss.

Why do they have to pass the raises onto the consumers? They don't. They do because they're greedy assholes and no one says shiat to stop them. It doesn't have to be that way. Someone has to force them to do the right thing because they're not going to do it on their own.

This free market shiat has gotten out of hand. For some reason people take it to mean, "Companies can do any evil thing they want to whoever they want. It doesn't matter if they destroy lives and entire economies in the process, as long as a handful of individuals at the top come home at the end of the day with a few more bucks in their accounts." The limit to any freedom is when it begins to hurt someone else. These monsters are destroying this country and its people just to turn a profit.

As far as I'm concerned, their right to do business as they see fit should have been revoked a long time before everything ever got this bad. Like farking children who can't play nice without beating each other over the head with their expensive action figures... someone needs to step in and take their toys away until they learn to get along with everyone else on the playground.

Uneven Displacement: Cyrus982:
I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...

Because they have a basic understanding of economics?

Don't give me that "They get paid less because there's more of them. Simple supply and demand. There's plenty of people to replace the grunts, while being a CEO is a hard job that only very few people can do." because that's horse shiat. It's another one of the lies idiots like you parrot because you have no real idea of what's going on.

A company can exist without a CEO, while if everyone working at the stores quit then the company would be done by the end of the week. So who is more important? Some rich brat who is only in charge because his daddy was rich and in charge before him, or the flesh and blood of the business-the common worker, the people who actually do the real work and keep things going? I mean, a farking chimp could throw feces at a dart board to make the same decisions and choices CEO's make as part of their "job."

It's people like you that think they "know economics" that are part of them problem. If people like you, and all the people in charge know so damn much and are so farking good at this, then why the hell has everything turned to shiat?

Really, I'd like to know WHY.

TheMegaI would have assumed the jobless people would be the best spenders with how forgiving the credit card companies are.. low interest rates.. and, don;t forget tinkerbell!

This shows what an ass you are. I have paid my credit cards down to almost nothing, and only use them in emergencies such as a recent car repair. I was laid off in Feburary, and am getting by fairly well on the unemployment I receive which is about 1/2 my last salary. You're lucky to have a job, but to make generalizations like that about the unemployed just shows what a total jerk you are. Hopefully, you will lose your job and see how it feels.

My former company has been using the economy as an excuse to fire half the company, and make everyone else do the work of 3-4 people. I just left 2 weeks ago. Let me preface this by saying I worked there for 5 years until 2001, then I left when my mother got cancer. While I was gone, they were bought out by Circor, so when I went back last year, I had to go through a temp agency.

They fired the 3 people in the stockroom, then they asked me to run it alone. No problem. Then they fired the receiving guy, and asked me to take over that job as well. Then they fired one of the 2 stockroom guys in the other building 2 miles away) ,and they asked me to get everything done, that 4 people had done in a full day each, before lunch so I could go to the other building to do the other guys job, every day. We're up to 5 jobs, no increase in pay. Fine. Then they fire the best assembler, due to him being outspoken, leaving 2 guys, plus a part time 71 year old who has bad arthritis, so he can only do some of the jobs. We get a huge order every quarter, but the idiots up front didn't think to keep him until after the order went out. So they come to me again. I worked about 4 hours, but every time a truck came or an order came in to pull, they wanted me to run back and forth like a jackass. I got fed up , so I went home for the day, not knowing if I was going to go back. The boss who wouldn't give me full time due to the company crying the blues about money, after being there a year, told the agency I was no longer needed out of spite. Had the idiot waited till monday, I might not have gone back, now, I get unemployment for a year and a half. I have a relative who works there for 25 years, she said one of the other supervisors , who always fought with my supervisor, begged to let me work in his area as an assembler (which was the job I started with before they needed a stock guy), but the putz refused.

Why I am I wasting your time about this. Well, Circor VP Chris Celtruda came to meetings at each company, including our own, telling everyone to work harder, no more overtime, do your own landscaping and cleaning , no more new hires etc, no raises. People were even declined supplies like a role of tape or boxes, stuff that was needed to package the stuff we were selling. But if you follow this link, this blowhard got his own personal bailout Link (new window). The poor baby who makes over a million a year in total compensations Link (new window) didn't want to take a loss on his house, so the company bought it at the former value and they even paid the income taxes on the sale, so the fat ass isn't out a dime. Makes you feel bad for these poor companies , doesn't it?

They also pulled a WalMart and told some of their employees to go on NY health care plus for insurance. This from a company that said in the same meetings that they have "200 million to play with" for buying other companies.

While everyone is biatching about the "Evil" Corporations, no one is biatching about Congress, who despite the falling job numbers, voted themselves a nice raise in January.

850 Billion in spending on Rich, Failed Corporations (WallStreet) by the Obama Administration. Would have been better spent giving it directly to those unemployed, those who live on Mainstreet.

850,000,000,000/10,000,000 unemployed = $85,000 per unemployed person. If they would have given that to the unemployed people, they would have Spent that money on things like houses (financial industry), cars (auto industry), food, etc.. That would have gotten the economy going.

dead_dangler: I don't understand. For years people lived beyond their means. Why would not having a job matter?

/have you seen how big plasma TV's are lately?
//life's not worth living without an iPhone

I read somewhere that plasma is dead. As a technology it's inferior to LCD, prone to reliability problems, and every bit if not more expensive.

I feel sorry for the early adopters a few years ago who shelled out big $$$ to be the first on the block, of course those people are stupid.

In a few years they'll have a heavy tv that has major screen burn in and nothing to show for the money.

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: The government jobs report for June Thursday pointed to a continued slowdown in the wave of layoffs that has sidelined more than six million workers since the recession began in Dec., 2007. Once that pace of layoffs eases and the unemployment rate peaks, consumers may get back into a spending mood, according to Merrill Lynch economist Drew Matus.

This is like saying the number of nuclear detonations has slowed down, indicating a possible recovery from WWIII.

Workers are still being laid off in huge numbers. Employers are still cutting the pay of those whom they continue to employee. Until this crap stops, the economy is not going to "recover."

It's about the jobs and the pay, folks. As long as employers keep cutting jobs and pay, the economy is going to stay in the toilet. The employees being screwed over are also the consumers that the economy is depending on to turn things around. Employers don't seem to understand this.

I know, it's like, 'IF YOU COMMIES WOULD JUST START SPENDING MONEY THE ECONOMY WOULD IMPROVE.'

US: 'With what money? We're jobless and broke, yo.'

EMPLOYERS: 'WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?'

I'm still looking for work too. Over a year now and the taxes and F.I.C.A. I had been paying is lost because some Indian is being paid 1/3 of what I made into his Indian account so ALL taxes and other contributions I, and thousands of others at (major 3 letter corporate logo here) and other major IT shops made, are no longer going into the various governmental and private agencies we supported by working. Now India's economy is benefiting. Now everyone is having their corporate servers and software done by someone who lied to get the job and is able to do only the most basic tasks so expect more personal data stolen and less stable banking, insurance, and credit card operations not to mention the country's IT infrastructure in the hands of foreign nationals. On my last job we had these UNIX gurus take down online servers and erase all the days data (rm -rf on the root dir) because they had no UNIX experience while claiming 5-10 years and no one vetted these idiots. Just took their recruiters' word because no one checks on academic or work credentials in India.

/done venting. Y'all keep working.
//I and 11 million illegal aliens are counting on you.

Mongo cut wood: While everyone is biatching about the "Evil" Corporations, no one is biatching about Congress, who despite the falling job numbers, voted themselves a nice raise in January.

850 Billion in spending on Rich, Failed Corporations (WallStreet) by the Obama Administration. Would have been better spent giving it directly to those unemployed, those who live on Mainstreet.

850,000,000,000/10,000,000 unemployed = $85,000 per unemployed person. If they would have given that to the unemployed people, they would have Spent that money on things like houses (financial industry), cars (auto industry), food, etc.. That would have gotten the economy going.

You're right, and this is a lot of what's going on too. But people aren't wrong when they only complain about the "evil corporations" because they're both pretty much one and the same at this point.

A lot of the people in government are the ones running the corporations too. A lot of the people in government are buddies with the people running the corporations and then write legislation geared towards helping their friends out. And if they aren't either of those, then the corporate lobbyists treat them to lobster dinner in the Bahamas in exchange for "considering their side." I.E. They bribe them to swing shiat in their favor. Corrupt Government and Evil Corporations have become so intertwined that they're basically the same beast anymore.

Almost every wealthy person alive in the country today is only rich because they inherited the cash from their dead dads. They're justa bunch of spoiled little rich kids, who've never known any real adversity, and who don't know how to do anything right because their money always ment they never had to. Is it any wonder why congress just throws cash at everything?

Does anyone trust MSNBS anymore? Why should they?

This is one of the most stupid f*cking articles I have read in my f*cking life, ever, even for MSNBC. How in the motherf*ck are people ("consumers") supposed to f*cking "consume" if they don't have f*cking jobs with which to get f*cking money so that they can buy sh*t? Did the f*ckers who sat down and wrote the piece of sh*t actually THINK about what the f*ck they were typing? WTF?
Motherf*cking ridiculous.
/getting laid off at the end of august
//and yes, I'm f*cking pissed

the Aristocrats!

Pilot Kosmosa: What we should do is form a council that oversees all business in the US. Everyone would be the same no matter what they do. The council would take results from school testing and place each person in a job they are suited for, and the council would also decide what needs to be produced and sold. I think that sounds pretty fair. Oh, wait... never mind. CEO's SUCK!

What you're describing is the original Rollerball movie when the corporations decided they'd had enough of that evil government telling businesses what they can and can't do and started a world war. The end result being an uneasy truce between the 10 surviving corporations who decided what products needed to be produced where people needed to live and what jobs they needed to do for the sake of the corporation they were born into. The corporation assigned you everything from your job to your spouse to your home to the number of children you were permitted to have. But hey, at least everyone was free from the evils of government.

It really pisses me off that the fat cats in government and business keep calling average Americans "consumers", as if that's the only thing they are. That's completely false, and frankly, I find it insulting and offensive. The People are not mindless consumer sheep who exist only to dutifully move wealth up the ladder!

I think it's high time we told Congress and big business and the whole lot of those soul-sucking parasites, in no uncertain terms, that we're sick and tired of being raped in every conceivable way, that we're fed up with busting our arses while they sit in the halls of power, fark hookers, and Hoover our wallets dry!

In the immortal words of Howard Beale, we've got to get mad! We've got to say, "I'm a HUMAN BEING, Goddammit! My life has VALUE! So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!" I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad! You've got to say, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it:

I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!

/ No, really, I'm being honest here
// "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

Cyrus982:
It's people like you that think they "know economics" that are part of them problem. If people like you, and all the people in charge know so damn much and are so farking good at this, then why the hell has everything turned to shiat?

Really, I'd like to know WHY.

Cyrus982: Almost every wealthy person alive in the country today is only rich because they inherited the cash from their dead dads.

[Citation needed]

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Cyrus982: Almost every wealthy person alive in the country today is only rich because they inherited the cash from their dead dads.

[Citation needed]

Some people are born on third base but go through life thinking they've hit a triple.

rewind2846: This is one of the most stupid f*cking articles I have read in my f*cking life, ever, even for MSNBC. How in the motherf*ck are people ("consumers") supposed to f*cking "consume" if they don't have f*cking jobs with which to get f*cking money so that they can buy sh*t? Did the f*ckers who sat down and wrote the piece of sh*t actually THINK about what the f*ck they were typing? WTF?
Motherf*cking ridiculous.
/getting laid off at the end of august
//and yes, I'm f*cking pissed

Yep.

/pretty much hate everything
//and I mean EVERYTHING

Cyrus982: I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...


Then become a CEO and shut your pie hole.

/or, just shut your pie hole.

aquaticphoenix: It really pisses me off that the fat cats in government and business keep calling average Americans "consumers", as if that's the only thing they are. That's completely false, and frankly, I find it insulting and offensive. The People are not mindless consumer sheep who exist only to dutifully move wealth up the ladder!

I think it's high time we told Congress and big business and the whole lot of those soul-sucking parasites, in no uncertain terms, that we're sick and tired of being raped in every conceivable way, that we're fed up with busting our arses while they sit in the halls of power, fark hookers, and Hoover our wallets dry!

THIS



Carry on.

jonny_q: Apparently your suggestion is to continue employing people you can barely pay to keep producing things that people can't afford.

Well... continuing to spend and grow your business when you're flat farking broke seems to be working well for the Government...

Mongo cut wood: While everyone is biatching about the "Evil" Corporations, no one is biatching about Congress, who despite the falling job numbers, voted themselves a nice raise in January.

I though raises for those nitwits were guaranteed and automatic? They actually had to go through the motions to vote not to get a raise...

850 Billion in spending on Rich, Failed Corporations (WallStreet) by the Obama Administration. Would have been better spent giving it directly to those unemployed, those who live on Mainstreet.

We could have avoided the whole war in the sandbox by paying each person in the desert $25,000 USD and telling them to stop farkin' things up. That'd buy enough hookers and opium to keep the entire country in a fark-filled haze for at least two full terms. A couple thousand years of constant religious war would probably come to an end once everyone is too tired and sticky to keep fighting.

JRoo: Nebraska is not empty, we are growing the corn and cows that feed the country.

Didn't you get the memo? These are the same economists who think that we are a nation which buys food, but doesn't need anyone to grow it. Just like we all spend money, but don't need jobs to earn that money.

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Cyrus982: I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...


Then become a CEO and shut your pie hole.

/or, just shut your pie hole.

And how does someone not born into the elite aristocracy of this country go about doing that? They don't let people just "Work their way up the corporate ladder" anymore. Most CEOs today are either the children or grandchildren of the original owners, or they got skipped right up the ladder by who their rich daddies knew. The same is true for politicians. It's the farking monarchy allover again. People who have no right to lead anything getting to be in charge of everything because of some twisted birthright the rich have laid claim to.

There are no opportunities left for normal people.

Graduated a year ago, NOT with a degree in English or Philosophy (Sustainable agriculture with a focus on sterile mushroom cultivation and composting) and now I'm working night freight in the health food department at the local chain grocery store, Fred Meyer, which is about ten percent less evil than WalMart. They cut our hours every week or so and still expect the same amount to be done, and more. Then they talk about efficiency and how we're a family and have the manager walk around the store quizzing us on store policy. There are teams! If enough people in your team get it right, then you get a sandwich party!

Husband can't find a job, though God knows he's looked. The only reason why we're getting through this is because my mom helps us out every month, but we've decided to pack up and pretty much become farmhands until this crap stops.

None of this is new, or even unique. I'm just farking pissed.

redeyedfrenzy: Graduated a year ago, NOT with a degree in English or Philosophy (Sustainable agriculture with a focus on sterile mushroom cultivation and composting) and now I'm working night freight in the health food department at the local chain grocery store, Fred Meyer, which is about ten percent less evil than WalMart. They cut our hours every week or so and still expect the same amount to be done, and more. Then they talk about efficiency and how we're a family and have the manager walk around the store quizzing us on store policy. There are teams! If enough people in your team get it right, then you get a sandwich party!

Husband can't find a job, though God knows he's looked. The only reason why we're getting through this is because my mom helps us out every month, but we've decided to pack up and pretty much become farmhands until this crap stops.

None of this is new, or even unique. I'm just farking pissed.

You had to pay thousands of dollars for that degree too... or either you still owe it.

Either way... while higher education is a wonderful thing and all... I've been getting the feeling that this whole "get a college degree or fail in life forever" thing is a sham.

Cyrus982: Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Cyrus982: I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...


Then become a CEO and shut your pie hole.

/or, just shut your pie hole.

And how does someone not born into the elite aristocracy of this country go about doing that? They don't let people just "Work their way up the corporate ladder" anymore. Most CEOs today are either the children or grandchildren of the original owners, or they got skipped right up the ladder by who their rich daddies knew. The same is true for politicians. It's the farking monarchy allover again. People who have no right to lead anything getting to be in charge of everything because of some twisted birthright the rich have laid claim to.

There are no opportunities left for normal people.

Despite your rage-filled rants, I respectfully disagree. My company, though not doing staggeringly well, is surviving. My CEO was on his own from age 15, and ripped his way to the position he has now (granted, he is a psycho, but that is pretty much a requirement).

I'm in the lower middle-class myself (for the area I live in- Boston area; probably upper-middle class in areas with a lower cost of living, depending on how such things are defined). Didn't' inherit anything, but did come from a stable home, and originally a from country in which you could actually work your way through an undergrad and end up rel;relatively debt-free if you didn't have much fun during the years you were doing it. I do consider myself lucky, but I don't think I was handed it.

I've been on a relatively faster promotion track. That has come to a somewhat halt however, as I think it is time that I actually spend time with my young daughters, rather than spend all my time at work. If I kept that pace up for another 10 years though, I can imagine a CSO slot. Then a pharma division for another few, finally ending up a start up biotech CEO. In theory of course, it would require luck and more sacrifice than I'm willing to make (all my upper management if quite divorced).

I realize this is just one case, but I'm just not tracking your blame for all but none on yourself
/srsly, you "signed up for websites" but only applied to a few places? farking yourself there, chum

// tl;dr

redeyedfrenzy: Graduated a year ago, NOT with a degree in English or Philosophy (Sustainable agriculture with a focus on sterile mushroom cultivation and composting) and now I'm working night freight in the health food department at the local chain grocery store, Fred Meyer, which is about ten percent less evil than WalMart. They cut our hours every week or so and still expect the same amount to be done, and more. Then they talk about efficiency and how we're a family and have the manager walk around the store quizzing us on store policy. There are teams! If enough people in your team get it right, then you get a sandwich party!

Husband can't find a job, though God knows he's looked. The only reason why we're getting through this is because my mom helps us out every month, but we've decided to pack up and pretty much become farmhands until this crap stops.

None of this is new, or even unique. I'm just farking pissed.

Grow shiataakes on a log. Grow white buttons even. Get them good, grow them efficient. Then start selling them to people like me on the net. (Or locally, which makes more sense, but damn,I loves me mushrooms). You have really neat sounding education, but it really sounds like a self -business driver, rather than a clock punching kind of preparation. Best of luck to you though. I wish I had learned something that cool in school.

/In Canada, you would already have a Psilocybin business thriving

I don't like our current economic system which is designed around artificial scarcity. We need an energy based economic system.

They need to give Technocracy a dust off, bolt a brand new enviromental front end on it and away we go.

BIGNICKEL, I don't know about your story. You didn't give me much to go on. Did you go to college? How did you pay for it? Did your parents help you or did you get loans, etc. What exactly is the business you're in that's still doing okay despite the fact that most are circling the drain right about now? How big is the company? And so on, and so forth.

Makes it hard to debate when you gave little to no information...

Anyhow, I can say for certain that your CEO is a lying sack of shiat. Really now? You bought the whole "I pulled muhself up from nothing at 15!"? Lol. If I had a dime for every time I heard a story like that...

Anyone else ever notice that CEO's, businessmen, and generally all the wealthy consider themselves "self-made men"? Whata crock... there's no such thing. Anyone who is anything got that way with help from other people. If it wasn't their parents giving them money, then it was the hundreds of people that busted their ass working under them, or it was the thousands that bought their service or product. No man is an island unto himself. No one has ever walked into the woods alone and then later came out a millionaire.

They forget how bad they need people like us... much more than we need them. The reason shiat has gotten so bad is because those at the top forgot that we're all in this together.

neongoats: I just got the "fark you in 60 days" letter 2 days ago from my company. Reasons why my company lost the project:

a)The middle/upper management try to run the place some kind of Sweatshop in Bangalore. Routinely clearing out veteran employees that do quality work to fill their spots with new untrained people making less and doing a shiatty job.

b)When they expect spikes of volume, they know about it a month or more ahead of time, and start pointing people up/etc to force them to work overtime, instead of, you know, motivating, they manipulate.

c)The middle/upper management are like.. 12. Or may as well be, they have the management acumen of your typical person with a business degree, IE: farking none, and no actual other job skills, again, like your typical person with a business degree.

d)People with a business degree and no technical acumen or experience shouldn't be training people to perform technical positions. Me and a few others essentially had to retrain all the new people, because of this, for oh, the last year or more now. The trainer is a furry obsessed with squirrels, and teaches about that instead of the job.

e)the project manager can barely type an email that is legible language. He is a white guy from Ohio, but just mind numbingly retarded.

I can't wait to suck that company for 52 weeks of unemployment, they deserve to go under.

Yeah. 52 weeks of unemployment.. at $550 a week. If you're lucky.

And, since you're from Ohio, you're not lucky.. so you max out at $503 a week , if you have enough dependants. Likely, you'll be at $372.

But enjoy sucking them dry :)

Legalize weed and prostitution, but regulate both and require them to do business in taxed, established, legitimate businesses. No skanky backroom crap... Nice brothels and hash bars that are inviting to middle and upper-class citizens... And you'll see the unemployment rate drop. If people could legally sell their bodies, and legally grow and sell weed and marijuana-based merchandise and paraphernalia, we'd have a whole bunch of job openings overnight.

We'd also solve our national budget crisis with the tax revenue from legalizing and taxing both weed and prostitution.

I'd be there RIGHT NOW is such an establishment opened up in my town. Hash brownies and a fark? Hell yeah. That's a night out.

zzrhardy
I don't like our current economic system which is designed around artificial scarcity. We need an energy based economic system.

They need to give Technocracy a dust off, bolt a brand new enviromental front end on it and away we go.


I suppose you're one of those visionary types but leave the details to the workers in the trenches to realize your dreams. Or do you just happen to have a PhD in economics and a real plan?

The current plan works just fine but it rewards hard work and innovation. Not dreaming, slacking, and gameboiz skills.

GomezAdams:
The current plan works just fine but it rewards hard work and innovation and financial leveraging skillz.

FTFY.

There are 3 types of people I know who've made reasonable money. ie More than just being regular wage/salary stiffs:

1. Inherited old money.
2. Came up with some sort of innovation.
3. Manipulated finance or real estate.

"Hard work" comes into the picture with number 2 only. Those who had an idea worked their arses off to get that idea off the ground and build a business.

The problem with the "hard work" spiel is that it's too often used to keep wage/salary stiffs in their place. Truth is, there is little to no relationship between "working hard" and making good money. However, it's very convenient to uphold that myth to keep average working stiffs in their place.

I used to work back-breaking labouring jobs for below minimum wage. Now I do nothing and make an order of magnitude as much. Hard work doesn't even enter the picture.

Melgania

Hard work: Show up everyday. Clean. Sober. Learn your business. Pay your dues. Read, learn, and upgrade your skills constantly. Talk with the successful people in your area.

It worked for me. Didn't have any money. Didn't have real estate. Didn't have a college degree. I just came in and out worked and out thought all the slackers. When I didn't get the pay off I expected I shopped my resume with all my new skills and experiences and hopped off to higher pay, greater risks, and greater rewards.

Went from nothing to comfortable six figures in under 10 years of changing careers. And I ain't no genius and was born into lower middle class family. Flipped burgers, drove trucks, herded pigs, and more. I just knew I wanted more and wasn't afraid to work for it. Guess I could have whined that there were too many road blocks or complain that I wasn't hired as the president of the company making that salary to start.

You have no idea how many people of your type I left behind and who are still in their little dead end lives. Whining about how unfair it all is.

redcard: And, since you're from Ohio, you're not lucky.. so you max out at $503 a week , if you have enough dependants. Likely, you'll be at $372.

But enjoy sucking them dry :)

There is always under the table work for cash spending money.

I have no debt, so being dragged down by a mortgage/carpayment/credit card balance isn't happening. Taxes and insurance for my home+utilities/internet/phone/food/gas pretty much. I can ride out 52 weeks of little disposable income while I search for a ceo to kidnap somewhere.

GomezAdams: Melgania

Hard work: Show up everyday. Clean. Sober. Learn your business. Pay your dues. Read, learn, and upgrade your skills constantly. Talk with the successful people in your area.

It worked for me. Didn't have any money. Didn't have real estate. Didn't have a college degree. I just came in and out worked and out thought all the slackers. When I didn't get the pay off I expected I shopped my resume with all my new skills and experiences and hopped off to higher pay, greater risks, and greater rewards.

Went from nothing to comfortable six figures in under 10 years of changing careers. And I ain't no genius and was born into lower middle class family. Flipped burgers, drove trucks, herded pigs, and more. I just knew I wanted more and wasn't afraid to work for it. Guess I could have whined that there were too many road blocks or complain that I wasn't hired as the president of the company making that salary to start.

You have no idea how many people of your type I left behind and who are still in their little dead end lives. Whining about how unfair it all is.

I'll take all that at face value and give you the benefit of the doubt, but I'm sorry, 9 times out of 10 when someone says that shiat, what they really mean is "I spent 10 years sucking dick and walking all over my coworkers and stabbing my competitors in the back".

Just sayin.

GomezAdams: Melgania

Hard work: Show up everyday. Clean. Sober. Learn your business. Pay your dues. Read, learn, and upgrade your skills constantly. Talk with the successful people in your area.

It worked for me. Didn't have any money. Didn't have real estate. Didn't have a college degree. I just came in and out worked and out thought all the slackers. When I didn't get the pay off I expected I shopped my resume with all my new skills and experiences and hopped off to higher pay, greater risks, and greater rewards.

Went from nothing to comfortable six figures in under 10 years of changing careers. And I ain't no genius and was born into lower middle class family. Flipped burgers, drove trucks, herded pigs, and more. I just knew I wanted more and wasn't afraid to work for it. Guess I could have whined that there were too many road blocks or complain that I wasn't hired as the president of the company making that salary to start.

You have no idea how many people of your type I left behind and who are still in their little dead end lives. Whining about how unfair it all is.

Hey JFP,

I don't have a dead end life or a shiatty low paid job. Read the last paragraph of my post again. I was basically aggreeing with you. According to my categorisation you'd fit in with number 2, although it sounds more like job-hopping and self improvement than "innovation" in the sense of patenting a new invention. But meh.

What I was getting at is the type of "work hard" mantra which is sold to pacify the average stiff. ie "Work hard and break your back on this factory floor for 60 years, and you may become the boss!". Taken on face value, that sort of thing is more of a pacification of the worker than anything else.

Wasn't accusing you of doing that really, just making a general point about how that mantra is often used to that effect.

"Work smart" makes more sense. How much real "hard work" that requires varies. It often doesn't take much at all.

Cyrus982: What I'm trying to say, is that most of the companies in this country CAN afford to pay MOST of their employees A LOT more than they do. They don't though, and when it comes up they biatch about the overhead and how it would bankrupt them and blah, blah, blah... while the top ten positions in said corp. make millions a year for going on vacations, snorting blow offa hookers asses, and generally not doing a single damn productive thing. And if those companies have that kind of money to pay the least productive members of the business, and to blow on things like "golden parachutes", then they most certainly have enough to pay their people on the front line a few more bucks an hour.

As a general rule, companies are more concerned with paying their stockholders large dividends than paying their employees good wages.

Mija: With that attitude slaver and child labor would still exist. There wold be no minimum wage that only gets raised once every few decades. Sometimes you have to force evil people to act more decently.

Slave labor is bad and is a different ballgame.

However, lots of things you consume were produced by people we consider "children" and people working for less than minimum wage. Sure, you ignore it because you don't have to actually see them, but it's true. Also, you wouldn't have what you have without it.

Here, though, we're not talking about small 1800s villages where the jobs are at the local coal mine and moving is impossible. Today, there are plenty of places to work and the market is competitive. Those laws aren't as necessary as they once were.

Cyrus982: In the real world, people can't just "go work someplace else." For the last six months I've been signed up to job sites that e-mail you when companies in the area are hiring, and for the last six months every single last "career opportunity" has been some shiatty fast food place that only pays min. wage. Well, except the Joan Fabrics one from a few months ago... but I don't have a vagina so I doubt they would have hired me. (That probably only payed min. wage to though.) I've applied to other stores and haven't heard anything back.

Dude, I've been there. I don't where you live, but once you reach a certain point, you do what you have to do to survive. Sell vacuums door to door (yes, I almost did this once), temp agencies (I actually did this), fast food (that too).

I guess I could go to college, and get a real job instead... but I just don't have a spare 100,000 bucks lying around.

Well, that explains why you don't understand economics.

There are ways to educate yourself, formally and informally, that don't require spending 100,000 on a university education.

Lol, and you actually think that evil businesses will be fazed out by good ones. Lol, have you looked around lately? Evil Business is the standard today.

No, they're just the ones you see on the news. That's why they're news.

I just want things to be fair. I don't understand why a CEO who does absolutely nothing gets paid millions a year while the foundation of the company, the people at the bottom, the people who make everything possible because they come in each day and do horrific back-breaking work ONLY get paid min. wage. It's freaking ridiculous, and I don't know why everyone isn't as pissed off as me...

The CEO is the one making the decisions and taking the risk. People in those positions scratch, claw, and take great risks to be there. That's why I'll never be one. I just don't have the nerve. The incentive to work hard and take risks is the hope that, one day, one can be successful enough to work less and be in a position to give you a job.

jonny_q: Slave labor is bad and is a different ballgame.

We prefer the term "Visiting Mexican Non-Americans" thank you.