I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

I heard a couple doctors on Diane Rehm discussing this the other day. They were complete nuts, both of them - and they are both powerful. As I recall one was on the approval board of the FDA and the other was part of the insurance lobby, maybe?

Anyway, the whole thing struck me as useless fear mongering and a way for insurance companies to save money by requiring an over-the-counter medicine to be purchased out of pocket, to supplement a cheaper drug.

Not amused.

Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

no bet
but yah, there will soon be a hydrocodone only type pill
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

forget it, there are already a million other combos out there
hydrocodone with (aspirin, ibuprofen, blah blah blah blah)

so people will have to switch ...
but probably wont be the end of the world

Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyway, the whole thing struck me as useless fear mongering and a way for insurance companies to save money by requiring an over-the-counter medicine to be purchased out of pocket, to supplement a cheaper drug.

The concern is the liver damage possible from use of acetaminophen, even in recommended dosages. If the FDA doesn't end up banning those combo drugs, some sue-happy shiathead will sue the pharma companies claiming, "You KNEW my liver would get farked, yet you left those killer combos on the market anyway..."

/tramadol ftw - far better for pain relief than vicodin

namatad: Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

no bet
but yah, there will soon be a hydrocodone only type pill
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

It is already available with ibuprofen or without any other analgesics at all, it is just most commonly prescribed with paracetamol - probably to attempt to minimize abuse.

I see this potential move by the FDA as more of a "protect people from themselves" kind of thing than a conspiracy.

Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

As bad as that would be, if the FDA doesn't come up with a replacement for vicodin then I wish that everyone involved in removing that medication from the marketplace has 8 months of kidney stones.

I'll bet they find a way to reverse the ban after that.

I can't believe that the FDA is taking this horrible and unjustified action. It makes perfect sense to take a painkiller (oxycodone or hydrocodone) that can be expected to require increasing doses over time to remain effective, and combine it with another painkiller (acetaminophen) that inflicts horrible liver damage when used at high doses. The people behind this ban obviously just want to see people suffer.

Weaver95: As bad as that would be, if the FDA doesn't come up with a replacement for vicodin then I wish that everyone involved in removing that medication from the marketplace has 8 months of kidney stones.

I'll bet they find a way to reverse the ban after that.

Uh, what? Vicodin as sold is a danger to health because it forces you to take acetaminophen with it. Banning that form and forcing the production of an acetaminophen-free form, and you're naive as hell if you don't think that will happen, is a good thing. Once again, not all government intervention is bad.

Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

Nailed it in one.

In my day all we had was a bottle of whiskey and a dirty bandanna for a tourniquet and a piece of leather to bite on. That's the way it was and we liked it.

namatad: and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

I always thought it was to keep people from using it as a recreational drug.

namatad: and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

My guess would be to make the new combination patentable.

Please leave Lortab alone..

Yeah, make the plain hydrocodone tablets. Those can probably be broken down easier. Bunch of dumbasses.

GAT_00: Weaver95: As bad as that would be, if the FDA doesn't come up with a replacement for vicodin then I wish that everyone involved in removing that medication from the marketplace has 8 months of kidney stones.

I'll bet they find a way to reverse the ban after that.

Uh, what? Vicodin as sold is a danger to health because it forces you to take acetaminophen with it. Banning that form and forcing the production of an acetaminophen-free form, and you're naive as hell if you don't think that will happen, is a good thing. Once again, not all government intervention is bad.

Is there not some medicine that doesn't have this combination? If so, why aren't the pharm companies exploiting that and, if there is some type of medication out there without this combination, why aren't doctors prescribing it?

I know a few people that are hooked on bars who won't give a rat's ass whether or not it's legal.

House in 3, very good, carry on.

Came for Hugh Laurie, leaving satisfied

Weaver95: As bad as that would be, if the FDA doesn't come up with a replacement for vicodin then I wish that everyone involved in removing that medication from the marketplace has 8 months of kidney stones.

Wait, you thought this ban would affect them too? Hahahah!

Just ban it. It would be terrible to just put the information out there and allow people to make an informed decision.

man the FDA and DEA are in bed together
sucking your country dry of cash
with their budgets and their bullshiat


ON JULY 4TH IT'S A GOOD TIME TO REMEMBER
what Thomas Jefferson said,

"If the people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

This has nothing to do with addiction but rather liver toxicity due to the acetaminophen component of the drug. Generic drug makers will likely be able to make percocet only or vicodin only pills that are just as cheap as the current combo-drugs.

shanrick: In my day all we had was a bottle of whiskey and a dirty bandanna for a tourniquet and a piece of leather to bite on. That's the way it was and we liked it.

Came here to say something like that.

Most folks I've ever known just pop those pills for fun. When you really need them, they suck.

/Hates pills.
//Likes whiskey.

SingletonFactory: Not amused.

So that is why he decided to go into rehab...

Acetaminophen is a messy drug and probably shouldn't have been approved in the first place. For those of us who regularly punish our livers, it's a really bad idea. Plus, acetaminophen doesn't work for shiat.

There are already plenty of other options, eg., Nurofen Plus (ibuprofen and codeine), or the aforementioned opiate + NSAID as separate pills. I don't know if Nurofen is already approved by the FDA (it *would* be very convenient if such approval somehow reactivated/renewed the patent and lined *somebody's* pockets).

I've seen people screwed up by "prescription" narcotics. I know that pain management is an issue for some people, but it's also true that these medicines are too much for some to handle, and they become addicted.

There has to be a better way.

cazman: Please leave Lortab alone..

I've been taking Lortab/Vicoden for about 15 years now. Of course, I also have to have monthly blood work done that my doctor monitors.

/rheumatoid arthritis.
//Enbrel,Methotrexate,Ketophrophen,Vicoden.
///hope my doc is willing to go with Oxy now.

this is good news...for heroin dealers

So, you'll get your ***codone formulated with something else in the pill instead of acetaminophen.

Big deal.

Hooray for my Dilaudid!

Stupid people are why we can't have nice things. Thanks stupid people.

Barbecue Bob: shanrick: In my day all we had was a bottle of whiskey and a dirty bandanna for a tourniquet and a piece of leather to bite on. That's the way it was and we liked it.

Came here to say something like that.

Most folks I've ever known just pop those pills for fun. When you really need them, they suck.

/Hates pills.
//Likes whiskey.

Vicodin never did a damn thing for me painwise anyway. What good is it if you're high out of your skull if you're still in pain?

That's funny, well not really funny, but all through the Bush years it was a mad rush to kill medical marijuana and promote more drug war nonsense. Now it's moving to take away prescription medicines, and the scuttle butt I heard was that they are going to go down hard on alternate/herbals and such next.

/why does it never, ever, occur to people in power that maybe. Just maybe MORE rules are not what we need, but rather less rules. Adults in control of their own bodies, what an alien concept!

Impudent Domain: That's funny, well not really funny, but all through the Bush years it was a mad rush to kill medical marijuana and promote more drug war nonsense. Now it's moving to take away prescription medicines, and the scuttle butt I heard was that they are going to go down hard on alternate/herbals and such next.

/why does it never, ever, occur to people in power that maybe. Just maybe MORE rules are not what we need, but rather less rules. Adults in control of their own bodies, what an alien concept!

Medical marijuana is less dangerous than opiate narcotics. Film at 11!

I'm going to present my intake of Vicodin, twice following a surgery (legally) and a few times in high school for fun, and lack of addiction to Vicodin as evidence that I am genetically superior to the lot of you. Prepare to be cuckolded.

Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?


The Crips. They always seem to be ahead of the curve in pharmaceutical distribution.

Michael Jackson-related hype.

Impudent Domain: /why does it never, ever, occur to people in power that maybe. Just maybe MORE rules are not what we need, but rather less rules. Adults in control of their own bodies, what an alien concept!

It does occur to them, and if you had the power to choose your own medical treatments, with herbs that you can grow in your backyard, you'd take away the potential profits for the pharmaceutical industry.

A great many laws have been enacted for the sole purpose of reducing or eliminating competition, while being masqueraded as protecting people.

Oh, awesome, ban the combination pills so that the patients can be billed for two separate drugs. An how much do you want to bet that separate will cost more?

Ban acetaminophen.. problem solved.

Off to Tijuana!

so if tylenol/acetamenophin whatever is the liver killer, why not ban all forms of that including over the counter. got a headache, chew a piece of willow bark. nasty infection, eat some moldy bread. bad pain, smoke a big ole hog leg of some killer doobage. problem solved.

I'm thinking those aren't really intended for long term use anyway...I much prefer
Put it on for 3 days at a time...then replace....

SchlingFocker: So, you'll get your ***codone formulated with something else in the pill instead of acetaminophen.

Big deal.

This. A bunch of hype over nothing. They'll just start cutting it with ibuprofen instead, which is a better pain reliever, anyways.

namatad: Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

no bet
but yah, there will soon be a hydrocodone only type pill
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

"Combination analgesics are most likely to produce added efficacy or synergy, as each agent works on different sites in the pain matrix/network."

The more you know....

numb3r5ev3n: Vicodin never did a damn thing for me painwise anyway.

Vicodin didn't seem to do anything for me period. I was prescribed it after getting a very bad cut on my leg and it didn't seem to do anything more than extra strength Tylenol. No buzz, just a mild blunting of the pain.

namatad: forget it, there are already a million other combos out there
hydrocodone with (aspirin, ibuprofen, blah blah blah blah)

so people will have to switch ...
but probably wont be the end of the world

The problem with that is that many people, such as myself, are allergic to NSAIDs, so those combos are out of the picture for us.

This whole decision is such bullshiat. Like someone else said, I hope every person who voted in favor of this lives the rest of their lives with intractable pain and have nothing to take for it. fark 'em up the ass. Less than three percent of people given these meds abuse them. But now that hydro/oxycodone will need to be prescribed pure, the DEA will claim that abuse potential has just skyrocketed, and they'll be pulled off the market altogether. Just watch.

/bastards
//chronic pain is NOT fun

Why do we even have pain killers? Seriously, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.