I got an Rx for Percocet when I dislocated my shoulder, twelve years ago. Honest to God, that stuff just knocked me on my ass. I was just groggy the whole time, no fun at all for me. I cut the pills in half. Still just made me want to sleep. After two days, I just said "fark it!" and stuck with four Advils. That killed the pain, but I was alert.

Vicoprofen to the rescue.

Marley: My neurologist told me "It'll just take time." Isn't two years enough?

I am not an MD, I am a PhD who researches eye-movement disorders (but there are several neurologists in our lab from whom I have learned a bit here and there).

Some neurologists have prescribed gabapentin to treat acquired nystagmus, especially if it is associated with oscillopsia (visual perception that the world is moving).

The best drug in the world is the one that makes you feel better but doesn't get you better... then you are a lifelong customer.

This is the goal of all pharma companies. They're not out to cure anything.

These companies are also in bed with the "food" companies that stock your grocery shelves with poisonous non-food product in flashy packaging, which makes you sick so you have to take their pills.

The FDA is a joke. If you trust what the FDA tells you, you deserve what you get.

Oxymorphone 5mg IR


Oxymorphone 10mg IR


Oxymorphone 40mg ER


Only the finest pharmaceutical opioid in existence hotlinked.

Diamorphine might be considered pharmaceutical, won't bother hotlinking vials. Holy grail is good enough.

Really you pussies, it's just pain. Cry all you want about your motorcycle wrecks or your bleach blanket bingo rug burns, it's just farking pain. It's capable of being mastered by anyone with an intellect superior to a llama's. You people with your drugs are the reason that white people should be destroyed.

kermit_the_frog: I'm on narcotic paint killers right now, so I'm getting a kick out of these posts... :-)

/for real -- 15mg oxy -- no apap.
// :-) :-)
/// what's not to smile about when the pain is gone, and the opiates make you feel good.

P.S. to all you holier than thou types who think it's better to be in chronic pain than addicted to opiates, I suggest you try the pain for a few weeks -- you'd change your tune in a hurry. It's *far* better to be addicted to oxy or it's ilk than experience ongoing severe pain 24/7.

You sicken me. That a human should fall so low and be so unable to control themselves.............

ArmoredFelix: Really you pussies, it's just pain. Cry all you want about your motorcycle wrecks or your bleach blanket bingo rug burns, it's just farking pain. It's capable of being mastered by anyone with an intellect superior to a llama's. You people with your drugs are the reason that white people should be destroyed.

God? Is that you? It's me, Margaret.

re: The FDA is a joke. If you trust what the FDA tells you, you deserve what you get.

no. the fda isn't a joke. you're a joke ya farking simpleton.

So long I can still drink whiskey

Lumi: RancidOne: Lumi: Sorry, you're wrong on one major point. Not everyone that takes narcotic pain relievers becomes addicted. They will more than likely become dependent. There's a major difference between the two, addiction is for fun, dependence is a medical condition. Please look up the difference between the two.

From a neuropsychopharmacological standpoint there is no difference between dependence and addiction. The chemical mechanisms are identical.

The distinction between "dependence" and "addiction" is a lay one, not a medical one, and "dependence" is simply a nice way to reassure people they aren't filthy addicts. Or something.

addiction and physical dependence are not interchangable terms. addiction may encompass physical dependence but physical dependence doesn't itself describe the phenomena of addiction.

twidgetfitch: Oxymorphone 5mg IR


Oxymorphone 10mg IR


Oxymorphone 40mg ER


Only the finest pharmaceutical opioid in existence hotlinked.

Diamorphine might be considered pharmaceutical, won't bother hotlinking vials. Holy grail is good enough.

And all this time I thought you weren't allowed to post porn on Fark!

Marley: Two cancer patients have told me that Marinol does not provide the pain relief that smoking a joint does, and it does not ease the nausea of chemotherapy or enable the patient to actually eat.

I've also been told from a Marinol patient that smoking a joint gives him better control over the dosage. He found the pill form too much to handle.

twidgetfitch: Oxymorphone 5mg IR


Oxymorphone 10mg IR


Oxymorphone 40mg ER


Only the finest pharmaceutical opioid in existence hotlinked.

Diamorphine might be considered pharmaceutical, won't bother hotlinking vials. Holy grail is good enough.

mscontin was a lot of fun for me for a while...withdraw sucked ass.

cutting open deregesic patches and eating the gel was also a blast.

ArmoredFelix: kermit_the_frog: I'm on narcotic paint killers right now, so I'm getting a kick out of these posts... :-)

/for real -- 15mg oxy -- no apap.
// :-) :-)
/// what's not to smile about when the pain is gone, and the opiates make you feel good.

P.S. to all you holier than thou types who think it's better to be in chronic pain than addicted to opiates, I suggest you try the pain for a few weeks -- you'd change your tune in a hurry. It's *far* better to be addicted to oxy or it's ilk than experience ongoing severe pain 24/7.

You sicken me. That a human should fall so low and be so unable to control themselves.............

I take it that you sing the loudest in your church choir.

So next time I have an abcessing molar and cant get an extraction for 3 weeks I should just blow my brains out, I mean if all they can give me is asprin now?

I can just continue to get my painkillers from Canada, cheaper, better, made by people you can trust. Honestly I should just cut out the middleman and save myself the postage by moving the whole family north.

How's the tech jobs in Toronto?

/Palins gonna flush this country down the shiatter after 2012 anyways.

The FDA needs to be abolished (or its legal authority severely limited). It can easily be handled just like consumer reports handles products or Underwriters Laboratories handles the certification of electrical devices.
The FDA has NO LAWFUL RIGHT to deny ANYONE of ANY drug they wish to take. What body of citizens would ever grant them such vast authority as to regulate what everyone in the whole country can or cannot take?
At the very least, if the FDA has the final say on what's safe and what's not, then THEY should be the ones who take the blame when tainted foods hit the market and when people die from not receiving the drugs they wished to take. If they're good enough to tell us what's what, they're good enough to handle the consequences.

Link

This thread is the land of the Lotus Eaters.

Cap Ten Oblivious: I always thought it was to keep people from using it as a recreational drug.

I've heard this before, sounds like BS but I'm open minded. Is there a source?

namatad: Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

no bet
but yah, there will soon be a hydrocodone only type pill
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

Exactly.

Acetaminophen is really a toxic drug that doesn't do much.

Aspirin would be better for most human beings.

I'm so glad Fark is full of medical doctors and pharmaceutical experts! Thank goodness we have everyone in here to turn to for guidance, since we wouldn't want to listen to medical experts like those advisers for the FDA. I keep forgetting that ANYTHING ever related to the government is evil and a part of a giant conspiracy (oh, and done entirely, 100% solely for the profit of the big drug companies, and absolutely never for public health). Certainly, there's no way that more recent studies have revealed that, just perhaps, previous maximum recommendations for acetaminophen may have been too high.

/ Sincere thanks to those the limited few who actually ARE well-read and educated in the medicine and drug fields
// I'm not either, but I don't trot around pretending to be

namatad:
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

Hydrocodone or Oxycodone mixed with tylenol is considered a schedule 3 drug, while Hydrocodone or Oxycodone by themselves are CIIs. Schedule 3s are still considered controlled meds, but CII is a category of "OMG This shiat is serious business, we must track every prescription, treat the providers like criminals and the patients like addicts". It's pretty stupid really. I guess they figure the added tylenol will limit the amount of abuse, because once you hit a certain level you start damaging your liver. That is pretty farked up when you think about it. To purposely put something in a medication to poison you if you take more than the government thinks you should have.

Bacontastesgood: Cap Ten Oblivious: I always thought it was to keep people from using it as a recreational drug.

I've heard this before, sounds like BS but I'm open minded. Is there a source?

hydrocodone alone = sched II.

hydrocodone mixed with APAP = sched III.

a plausible theory could then pop up that the APAP is there to limit abuse, thus the lower designation on the DEA scale of scheduling.

Drugs are for sucks

Gyrfalcon: Opiates are Bad Fun Drugs. There are no good Bad Fun Drugs. All Bad Fun Drugs are Bad Fun. It doesn't matter if some responsible people use Bad Fun Drugs because they need them for real chronic pain; because there are some stupid idiots who abuse Bad Fun Drugs, all Bad Fun Drugs have to be criminalized, taken off-market, or made hard to get. Because they are Bad Fun Drugs, and we can't be seen as promoting Bad Fun Drugs in any way.

Bad Fun Drugs get people addicted, and addicts are Bad Fun People. Bad Fun Drugs make V People, so they are Bad Fun. Bad Fun! Bad Fun! Bad Fun!

FTFY

Let's hear it for the Puritan ethos of "if it feels good, it's bad for you".

I hope the FDA gets shot, gets a serious fever, or their kids break a farking hip bone.

I can't take anything with aspirin in it, which severely lowers the choices available to me for painkillers.

I broke my back seven years ago. Not a year ago I found out that they forgot to check my neck, and I have been walking around with pretty much a broken neck this whole time. I have nothing but severe pain 24/7. I can't get vicodin, ocycodone/oxycontin, or any of the narcotics anymore. Not because I was addicted or anything like that, but because doctors think I am a junkie.

I was on a cocktail of just about every painkiller you can name except methadone. (They offered it, I refused.) Tramadol, Baclofen, oxycontin, oxycodone, vicodin, percocet, my stomach looked like a screen shot from Dr. Mario. All of these could plus a morphine drip could barely keep the pain at bay.

I finally had a surgery 1.5 years after breaking my back (work comp case which I had to sue to get the MRI that proved my back was broken, nevermind the physical indications) that alleviated a good amount of the pain, but they did that wrong. They did a fusion with two rods and six screws at L4, L5, S1. They put the rods too low and they sit on my tailbone, constant pressure. No fix except to do it again.

I had complications. Spinal fluid leak, DVTs, death three times, etcetera and up to the broken neck. I have massive migraines almost all day everyday. I live in a body that has hellfire running through it from the pain. I can't remember a single day of my life now that hasn't been lived without severe pain.

Now, the one drug ingredient that I can use to help alleviate that pain they want to take away? Yes, I get it, it is bad for my liver. I know this. I knew this when I went to the doctor and they told me that. When I went to get the prescription filled and the pharmacist told me not to mix it with anything else unless prescribed by my doctor. When I picked up the script and the mandatory consult said not to mix it. The massive amounts of paperwork stapled to the drugs saying not to mix it, and the labels on the pill bottle itself saying not to mix it.

The study they are using to advise taking acetaminophen away is based on a ten year period. That period of time showed less than 500 deaths due to mixing of drugs, barely 53,000 overdoses due to mixing of the drugs. This was in ten years, not one year, not one month, but TEN YEARS. Then they tacked on the liver damage to it to make it seem like a worthwhile move.

What gets poured around in the media? "Liver damage, mixing of drugs, liver damage, and deaths from overdoses." Not the fact that the people who overdosed from it were the ones grasping for Darwin Awards for being too farking stupid to listen to the doctor, pharmacist, to read to the pamphlets or the pill bottles. If anything this is natural selection.

So what am I left with after they take it away? I can't legally use marijuana in this state, even though I have a lifetime prescription for it in California. I can't take aspirin at all, and ibuprofen is like sugar pills to me; it doesn't do a damned thing for the pain. I get to live my life "drug free" but in even more severe pain than I have now with my low dosage of OTC Tylenol.

Note: I was never addicted to the narcotics/painkillers. I hated and continue to hate them. They put a fog on my brain that I am still having side-effects from. I hated not being able to think at a higher level because I was stoned out of my farking mind 24/7 for four years. I hated taking them and the day I finally said, on my own accord, that I couldn't live with that fog anymore and said "no more" I was happy. I went six months without any painkillers, trying to get my body used to the pain so that I could live without taking one more farking pill. My body won, it seriously hurts too much. When the first thing a doctor says to me is "How are you still alive? With that amount of pain I would have killed myself a long time ago" then I know even more that the amount of pain I am in is too severe to live a productive life without a painkiller.

I abhor painkillers. I wish I didn't need to have them to operate at any level of normalcy. I sincerely hope that the surgery I am going to have to fix my neck will alleviate more of the pain that I am in so that I need fewer painkillers than I take now. Is my liver shot? No. Will it be? Most likely. I don't drink alcohol either, so I get a nice second-hand liver failure.

So, fark you FDA. Thank you so much for taking away the only painkiller strong enough from OTC that can help me be a productive member of society. The only painkiller from OTC that I can take for the pain. I hope you all burn in hell. I'll be thinking really nasty thoughts your way as I writhe on the floor in pain, shiatting myself because I couldn't even walk to the bathroom. I'll be thinking of you as I get admitted to a care facility because all I can do is scream during my waking moments, like I did 95% of the time the 1.5 years of a broken back and two years following the surgery. I hope the screams keep you up at night. I hope they haunt your every waking moment.

Did I miss the post where someone wrote that since Marinol is in pill form, if your illness or related condition causes upset stomach (re: chemo), you might not be able to keep it down long enough for it to take effect?

Plus, the state of fluids in your digestive system (stomach acid ph level) would probably affect how well it's absorbed.

If you smoke pot, it bypasses the stomach and gets straight into the bloodstream via the lungs.

justoneznot: namatad:
and in all fairness, why is the acetaminophen there in the first place?

Hydrocodone or Oxycodone mixed with tylenol is considered a schedule 3 drug, while Hydrocodone or Oxycodone by themselves are CIIs. Schedule 3s are still considered controlled meds, but CII is a category of "OMG This shiat is serious business, we must track every prescription, treat the providers like criminals and the patients like addicts". It's pretty stupid really. I guess they figure the added tylenol will limit the amount of abuse, because once you hit a certain level you start damaging your liver. That is pretty farked up when you think about it. To purposely put something in a medication to poison you if you take more than the government thinks you should have.

indeed, and sorry my post went through without me realizing someone posted a similarly themed reply. I just wonder what effect a ruling by the fda on this would have in respect to prescribing painkillers which are stronger than OTC nsaids.

Shrew2u: LavenderWolf: When my farking hand is crushed from a motorcycle accident it isn't mild discomfort, my bones were split down the farking middle.

OWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW shiat!

So, what did you take for THAT undoubtedly massive pain?

The doctor prescribed farking codeine of all things, which I happen to react badly to. After about a week of vomiting and no pain relief, I started smoking pot medicinally.

Twidgetfitch: I have a prescription for those sitting at the pharmacy for chronic pain. They don't work as well as morphine and costs $500 a month, why are they so good to you? On the addiction scale how bad are they? I didn't notice any real dependency until after I started taking them after a year of various opiates.

Everyone who thinks this stuff shouldn't be on the market has probably never experienced real pain on a long-term basis. Simple question, if the pain is bad enough you want to kill yourself and suicide becomes an option, does it really matter if you medicate with something this strong? I've only caught a buzz twice in a year, including a major surgery. Real pain cuts the buzz completely and you get back to life. There's a lot of people out there who can't take NSAID's, and not all of us want to get high. Alcohol is so much more fun, and I can't drink anymore since I take pain pills, that I miss.

Alacritous: I'll bet that shortly before or shortly after this ban takes effect that a product will come on the market conveniently that does the same thing as the banned combinations... Any money on which company it'll be that brings it?

it is possible
they've know for years (decades) that acetaminophen is a liver killer
now with pain meds containing it and on the marked for decades, long enough that there are low cost generic equivalents available are banned.
New meds that are patented and not subject to generics for years and years that are very expensive will come to market
And people in pain will have to pay for relief

Postal Penguin: This has nothing to do with addiction but rather liver toxicity due to the acetaminophen component of the drug. Generic drug makers will likely be able to make percocet only or vicodin only pills that are just as cheap as the current combo-drugs.

Sure they will. It's just a coincidence that 5mg oxycodone has been out of stock for six months because the FDA shut down a couple of the generic factories, but didn't bother to increase quotas for those left operating. Just a coincidence.

Your government loves you.

spidermann: I hope the FDA gets shot, gets a serious fever, or their kids break a farking hip bone.

You do realize that they are NOT banning acetaminophen, right? They are just removing those drugs that are actually combos that contain acetaminophen to help prevent acetaminophen overdoses. Many folks have received liver damage or had liver failure as a result of taking these drugs AND extra acetaminophen tablets on the side (i.e. ending up taking too much acetaminophen). As such, they're just removing the acetaminophen from combo drugs like vicoden. You can still combine your non-mixed drug with a Tylenol if you want the combo (and have the go ahead from your doctor!). Tylenol and generic brands of acetaminophen will still be around; it's just been decided that that previous max recommendation was actually too high and too close to the point of liver damage in many folks, so they're adjusting it down a bit.

Take a breath, man.

Few realise that once combo drugs like Percocet and Vicodin disappear, it's not as if docs are simply going to prescribe a pure pill instead. They are far more reluctant to write for pure opioids, citing the usual fear of addiction.

Upshot is that, yes, the pure forms are and will be available, but as they are all CII (with all that that entails regarding refills and calling in), they will be extremely hard to get, even for excruciating pain. Not to mention the DEA monitor every single CII pill prescribed, every patient and every prescribing physician like hawks.

ArmoredFelix: Really you pussies, it's just pain. Cry all you want about your motorcycle wrecks or your bleach blanket bingo rug burns, it's just farking pain. It's capable of being mastered by anyone with an intellect superior to a llama's. You people with your drugs are the reason that white people should be destroyed.

+1/10

/no points for originality

Spiderman-you should have tried the methadone. I am not in the same league as you, but have had five proceedures/three ruptured discs. I became quite addicted as I was having surgeries on my right hand as well and could do very little except think about the pain. My pain management Dr. suggest I try the methadone and over about two years I was able to cut my painkiller consumption down to 5mg of methadone and one 7.5 Lortab at night, mostly to sleep. The methadone is a good,cheap and long lasting painkiller. It lets me use much less of the lortab. I think a lot of people turn their noses up at it because of its' association with heroin addicts; I put up with attitude from the pharmacy clerks because it works.
I know you will never be pain free, but think about at least giving it a try. Good Luck and God Bless

Shrew2u: Benevolent Misanthrope: Anyway, the whole thing struck me as useless fear mongering and a way for insurance companies to save money by requiring an over-the-counter medicine to be purchased out of pocket, to supplement a cheaper drug.

The concern is the liver damage possible from use of acetaminophen, even in recommended dosages. If the FDA doesn't end up banning those combo drugs, some sue-happy shiathead will sue the pharma companies claiming, "You KNEW my liver would get farked, yet you left those killer combos on the market anyway..."

/tramadol ftw - far better for pain relief than vicodin

If people are too stupid to actually look at the literature that comes with their prescriptions, and see that, hey, there's acetaminophen in this stuff, then that's there own problem. There's a reason the pharmacist/pharmacy tech says "Do you have any questions?" once you make your purchase. Anybody with half a brain should know that too much of ANYTHING is bad for you, and should alter their medicinal intake appropriately. Even if they're popping percoset or whatever just to get high, ease up on the Tylenol! People who are in chronic pain and know WTF they're doing when taking medications shouldn't have to pay for other people's inability to read up on the stuff they are putting in their systems.

I've taken acetaminophen religiously for every type of pain I've had since I was 13 (within recommended dosages), and my liver is just fine. If I ended up with a liver problem, I'd either severely cut back or quit acetaminophen altogether, and risk the stomach ulcers that ibuprofen would bring.

/Tramadol FTW
//just like Vicodin, but I don't get loopy

A potential future alternative is Acurox, a drug co-developed by King and Acura and currently under review by the FDA. Acurox is a single-dose tablet containing the opiate oxycodone - which is sold separately as OxyContin and other brands - plus the drug niacin. It's designed to deter abuse by causing unpleasant effects if it's crushed or taken excessively.

"The wave of the future is to move toward these abuse-deterrent systems," said Natixis Bleichroeder analyst Corey Davis. "The news here is the FDA is now really hell-bent on protecting against [acetaminophen]-induced liver toxicities. Acurox has abuse deterrence and it doesn't have acetaminophen."

ehhhhhhhhhhhh, from a quick google search.

Link

/just linkin
//i didn't know b3 was a drug

ubertwit: re: The FDA is a joke. If you trust what the FDA tells you, you deserve what you get.

no. the fda isn't a joke. you're a joke ya farking simpleton.

Yes, the FDA is a joke. It took the hiring and firing of 10 FDA chiefs before they found one that would approve aspartame for human consumption... and that chief just happened to be Donald Rumsfeld who had a monetary interest in aspartame... you know... coming from Monsanto and all. There is now overwhelming evidence that aspartame is a neuro-toxin and carcinogen, yet it is still on the market.

The FDA is controlled by pharma, fast-tracking untested medications so they can be tested on the public. The FDA has one responsibility which is to protect the public from dangerous food and drugs... There isn't a single thing in a typical grocery store that is safe for human consumption and drug regulations are practically nil.

The current head of the FDA is a numbskull. He recently wrote a book about food and thinks he's a genius because he figured out that the combination of fat, sugar and cheese create morphine-like reactions and addictions in the human body. This is something that has been known for quite some time. He talks like he's on horse tranquilizers.

Go ahead and trust the FDA. My guess is you're fat and/or sick.

Who's the simpleton, moran? Read-up, it might do you some good.

Umm this is a good thing. Vicodin and pecocett are brand names for the combined medication. Hydrocodone will then be available by itself.

Like said above... this is a GOOD thing. There is no reason for the combo drugs. If you happen to need both, then take a Tylenol along with your hydrocodone.

Dumbasses.

twidgetfitch: \
//Not dicksizing, actually have a 2g/day iv diamorph habit.


Ouch - how do you afford that?

They should more strictly regulate all these types of drugs, if only because the welfare patients who wind up in maternity clinics will say anything and do anything to get their hands on more of them to sell on the streets.

The nurses have to ask stupid questions like, "Oh a scale of 1 to 10, how is your pain?" And of course most people respond by throwing a fit that they dare even ASK about how pained they are.

People who have "chronic pain" usually (USUALLY) need to lose some weight because they've been in a car wreck and have just been lazing around on pain meds for a few years. The government should have some kind of yoga class available for them. Get off your fat ass, quit feeling sorry for yourself, quit collecting unemployment and watching football or daytime TV, and go stretch those muscles to build strength and pull yourself back into health. It's getting so that I just don't feel sorry for people with "chronic pain," I don't care how big a sob story you're toting around.

sombreradoraloca: They should more strictly regulate all these types of drugs, if only because the welfare patients who wind up in maternity clinics will say anything and do anything to get their hands on more of them to sell on the streets.

The nurses have to ask stupid questions like, "Oh a scale of 1 to 10, how is your pain?" And of course most people respond by throwing a fit that they dare even ASK about how pained they are.

People who have "chronic pain" usually (USUALLY) need to lose some weight because they've been in a car wreck and have just been lazing around on pain meds for a few years. The government should have some kind of yoga class available for them. Get off your fat ass, quit feeling sorry for yourself, quit collecting unemployment and watching football or daytime TV, and go stretch those muscles to build strength and pull yourself back into health. It's getting so that I just don't feel sorry for people with "chronic pain," I don't care how big a sob story you're toting around.

Hey now.... lemme tell you a story.

There's this man I know, who has CHRONIC shoulder pain due to a run-in with a ladder (more like the ladder toppled, and he would have fallen had it not been for the arm grabbing the ladder, which in turn tore a lot of ligaments in his shoulder). He takes prescription codeine for the pain (could get vicoden or percocet, but he wanted to work). He stayed productive til he retired at 62, 10 years after the accident, thanks to codeine. He works even still thanks to it.

While I will say there are those who want to be lazy, this man is not. He's a perfect example of pain regulation through meds. So please, don't figure all on prescription pain pills are taking them for the rush and the high.

Glad I'm not affected by this.

Pot, it does a body good.BobaFeet: There isn't a single thing in a typical grocery store that is safe for human consumption

There isn't a single thing in a typical grocery store that is safe for human consumption

So you say while I sip on this bottle of Arrowhead distilled water.

Moron.

chicagorefugee: ArmoredFelix: Really you pussies, it's just pain. Cry all you want about your motorcycle wrecks or your bleach blanket bingo rug burns, it's just farking pain. It's capable of being mastered by anyone with an intellect superior to a llama's. You people with your drugs are the reason that white people should be destroyed.

+1/10

/no points for originality

Well, he *is* from TX. Concessions must be made.

Dear all you "but I need my pain medication" whiners,

(yes, this is a troll, but in trollus veritas)

why the hell is it that the american per-capita consumption of painkillers dwarfs all other countries? Ok ok - I know - YOU are the farking exception because you have a Real Condition(tm). It's all those OTHER farking loser pill-poppers.

At what point do some of you people wake up and realize that you are part of the problem?

America - nation of hypochondriacs.

509boatman55: Spiderman-you should have tried the methadone. I am not in the same league as you, but have had five proceedures/three ruptured discs. I became quite addicted as I was having surgeries on my right hand as well and could do very little except think about the pain. My pain management Dr. suggest I try the methadone and over about two years I was able to cut my painkiller consumption down to 5mg of methadone and one 7.5 Lortab at night, mostly to sleep. The methadone is a good,cheap and long lasting painkiller. It lets me use much less of the lortab. I think a lot of people turn their noses up at it because of its' association with heroin addicts; I put up with attitude from the pharmacy clerks because it works.

Methadone is an excellent, underutilized drug - partly because of the stigma that only addicts take it. Unlike other opioids, it also has some NMDA receptor activity. Not a lot of drugs touch the NMDA receptors (ketamine & dextromethorphan being the major other two) so often you can get more mileage out of methadone than other opioids ... the result being a reduction in opioid needs.

For chronic pain patients having surgery (related or unrelated to their pain) I always incorporate ketamine into their anesthetic; for spine cases I'll use methadone too.

For outpatients, it's not without its own drawbacks and dangers though. Nothing that can't be safely overcome with some caution and a smart cooperative patient ... but it's not rx & forget.

SU: Lumi: RancidOne: Lumi: Sorry, you're wrong on one major point. Not everyone that takes narcotic pain relievers becomes addicted. They will more than likely become dependent. There's a major difference between the two, addiction is for fun, dependence is a medical condition. Please look up the difference between the two.

From a neuropsychopharmacological standpoint there is no difference between dependence and addiction. The chemical mechanisms are identical.

The distinction between "dependence" and "addiction" is a lay one, not a medical one, and "dependence" is simply a nice way to reassure people they aren't filthy addicts. Or something.

addiction and physical dependence are not interchangable terms. addiction may encompass physical dependence but physical dependence doesn't itself describe the phenomena of addiction.

And what are these special phenomena of addiction? Jonesing, bad behaviors used to attain the drug of abuse, being mean to people, really wanting to use the drug? That kind of stuff?

From the body's standpoint, people who are "dependent" on a drug looks exactly the same as people who are "addicted" to a drug.

Just because "addiction" has had additional behavioral attributes attached to it in the past 15 years since I received my GED in psychopharm doesn't mean there is any physical difference between the two.

Why are people so adamant on this point? Are they so reluctant to admit they are addicted to their painkillers? Or do they just want some way to differentiate themself from the "bad" people who go about getting their fix the wrong way (illegally, not to help with pain, etc.)?

"Me? Oh, I do admit I've developed a dependence on my Vicodin. Doc says it can't be helped...oh no, I'm not addicted [laughs]. I'm no Rush Limbaugh [both laugh]!"

Bomb Head Mohammed: Dear all you "but I need my pain medication" whiners,

(yes, this is a troll, but in trollus veritas)

why the hell is it that the american per-capita consumption of painkillers dwarfs all other countries? Ok ok - I know - YOU are the farking exception because you have a Real Condition(tm). It's all those OTHER farking loser pill-poppers.

At what point do some of you people wake up and realize that you are part of the problem?

America - nation of hypochondriacs.

I'll address this assertion. America sanctions violence in sporting events and has automobile drivers far more than any other country in the world (except maybe those nationalities that play polo with goat carcasses, etc---minus the car part). There is an enormous residue of musculo-skeletal mayhem that is a byproduct of having extra-large mouth-breathing head-butting tard-like bullies smashing their bodies into smaller and less physically mature opponents. (A significant percentage of these "sporting" injuries are actually criminal physical batteries masked under the guise of the sporting event.) Add in the enormous number of auto collisions, criminal assaults, and truly innocent accidents that produce the same said injuries, and, voila, there you have the chronic pain patient demographic.

Don't think, for a minute, that childhood, adolescent, and adult vertebral, shoulder, and other peripheral joint injuries just go away after the initial traumatic damage. They stay, and they stay, often, for life.

Personally, I have a herniated T4 vertebra that, if you GIS, will show itself to be both fairly rare and particularly pernicious and disruptive to daily activity. Open rotator-cuff surgery also has been done for a cuff tear that was bad, along with removal of a large benign tumor off of my right shoulder (that has left a big flesh divot in that shoulder). I am quite functional, owning and running a successful white-collar business, when taking 10/650 hydrocodone 4 times a day. Without a significant pain-killer, the nature of my chronic injury pain causes me to just sit at my desk while calculating the pain variable of every outward reach of my arms and shoulders. De pain, de pain....

As for the criminal addicts who rob pharmacies to get "Roxy" or whatever, well, the historical dustbin awaits their eventual demise. Sad cases, criminal cases; case after case of misguided youth gone awry.

//P.S. Meth- a hell of a drug for which all bets are off
///along with a few other illicits that are useless trash
//peace out, Lashawnda