Minsky: Then I either admire your dedication in surviving them

heh I'm used to it by now, plus if I don't weather the storm, who will?

Sidetrack: Add Polynesia and the Pacific Isles to that list

Yep they're among them too

Basiorana: and the later the transition, the more challenging it is for them to pass effectively afterwards.

Therapists have no real say so on when someone transitions. A person is free to transition as they see fit. All that a therapist has say so over is when a person can start hormones. But I haven't heard of anyone ending up waiting just because the therapists thinks based upon what others might say that they're not in their right mind.

OgreMagi: Sociologists and psychologists? Get back to me when you find a real scientists.

Sociologists are pretty good at noticing differing ways of seeing things in different societies. Unlike you they don't dismiss a cultures traditional way of seeing things just because they're different from their own. As for psychologists, given the work some do looking at brain activity in relation to behavior, you can't exactly go wanting for them to be objective, they already are.

irrational: I am proponent of eugenics so getting rid of genetically screwed up people is desirable

And how pray tell do you gauage genetically screwed up?

EyeForgot: They will always be fake no matter wha

Hey let's euthanize albinos, after all they can claim to be Asian, black or whatever else they are born, but hey they don't look it, so must be faking it.

irrational: EyeForgot: Honestly the kindest thing to do to a baby born intersexed would be to euthanize them. They will always be fake no matter what.

As farked up as this seems, its probably the best thing to do. I am proponent of eugenics so getting rid of genetically screwed up people is desirable. It is just too bad that most people see this as cruel and nazi-like.

Uhm, intersexuality is not genetic. X, XXX, XXY, and XYY people are the only genetic gender abnormalities, and XXX and XYY have the same rates of ambiguous genitalia as XX and XY, and X and XXY are usually infertile anyway. So you don't actually have to worry about intersexuals passing on their intersexuality, their kids would be normal and not intersexual.

/I do agree that eugenics is okay, but prefer abortion as a method to infanticide
//but doing what you suggest would not affect the genetic quality of the human race at all, so it seems pointless

Or the mother was a stupid biatch that was more concerned about her tits getting bigger so was on recalled and expired birth control (70's med student) and didn't realize she was el'prego until she was well into her 2nd trimester.

The infanticide is more for the mental bullshiat that the kid would have to grow up with. The solitude cause they could never be with anyone as an adult without the fear that the s/o would blab their f'n mouth about it. The fun times when they go to jail and the cops get every other cop to come look at the freak then throw them in with general population. Oh and rape/molestation haha farking ha. The cops will be worse to them when it gets reported than the actual rape was.

Killing them as infants would be way kinder than having them live a bullshiat life.

EyeForgot: Killing them as infants would be way kinder than having them live a bullshiat life.

You have a very negative view of life, and yet you wish to prevent others from living? Irony is wondering why you never returns its calls.

OgreMagi: It's my refusal choice to ignore real science that pisses them off.

Fixed, and yes. That is what I was getting at. You refuse to acknowledge facts because they make you squeamish. This makes you willfully ignorant on this particular subject.

I don't give a crap what people do in their bedroom. I voted against prop 8.

That's nice, irrelevant, but nice.

However, a sex change operation is only changing the superficial packaging, not the underlying reality.

The underlying reality is that the operation is to correct a physical deformity; the genitalia not matching physical wiring of the brain.

WhyteRaven74: Basiorana: and the later the transition, the more challenging it is for them to pass effectively afterwards.

Therapists have no real say so on when someone transitions. A person is free to transition as they see fit. All that a therapist has say so over is when a person can start hormones. But I haven't heard of anyone ending up waiting just because the therapists thinks based upon what others might say that they're not in their right mind.

I was talking about biologically transitioning only. Obviously it doesn't matter what a therapist says before a person can start living as their chosen gender, but as you say, a therapist can decide when the person starts their hormones, and the later in life a person starts the hormones, the more they look like their birth gender; transwomen who take female hormones before they are 15 are 100% convincing, you could never tell, unless they happen to be biologically very, very tall, but a transwoman who starts in her forties will always have a pronounced Adam's apple, masculine jawline, struggles with facial hair, etc etc. I know one person who couldn't have access to hormones when she was young (the therapists in her region all favored changing the mind, not the body), and she's now in her forties and basically said "screw it" to the whole thing because she knows that the surgery and hormones will not allow her to truly live unhindered as a woman, she'll always look like a man in drag, so why spend the money when she'd never be treated as she wants to be anyway? So the wait to take hormones can have serious consequences on the individuals.

/There are also whole websites on how to "fake it" for the pseudotranssexuals who want the hormones despite believing that being female means you are a sweet, patient, nice lady who everyone loves and treats like a princess
//Scares the shiat out of me

EyeForgot: Or the mother was a stupid biatch that was more concerned about her tits getting bigger so was on recalled and expired birth control (70's med student) and didn't realize she was el'prego until she was well into her 2nd trimester.

The infanticide is more for the mental bullshiat that the kid would have to grow up with. The solitude cause they could never be with anyone as an adult without the fear that the s/o would blab their f'n mouth about it. The fun times when they go to jail and the cops get every other cop to come look at the freak then throw them in with general population. Oh and rape/molestation haha farking ha. The cops will be worse to them when it gets reported than the actual rape was.

Killing them as infants would be way kinder than having them live a bullshiat life.

First of all, most of the time, they are born with ambiguous gentialia, a quick surgery once they're a young kid and it becomes clear what gender their brain is will solve the problem-- they might have a small penis or not really have a uterus, but a cop is not going to be able to tell. True cases of ambiguous genitalia aren't jsut left like that. The worst that happens to an intersex individual is that the doctor gives them surgery when they are a baby and goes the wrong way, and they wind up transsexual later on, or if the doctors do it right, they might wind up with a penis on the smaller end. I hope you don't advocate killing all men who don't measure up.

Honestly, the issue in prisons is with pre-op transsexuals who take hormones, and thus have breasts and a penis, not with intersexuals. By the time an intersexual reaches puberty, he or she has been assigned a clear gender and has been given appropriate surgery-- unlike transsexuals, no doctor objects to reassigning someone with ambiguous genitalia. So they have a clear gender, and go on to live their life, and maybe the guys are a little self-conscious about their penis size, and maybe they have to take some hormones because they have malformed sex organs, and usually they're sterile. But honestly, all those horrible problems that make life not worth living-- small penis size, need to replace hormones, sterility-- are found in normal adults too. My very female sister has to replace her hormones and is sterile because she has a brain tumor on her pituitary gland. Is her life not worth living? Oh God, she has to take a pill every day and might have to adopt! The horrors!

Intersexual babies grow up and live normal lives. They don't regret being born, they contribute to society, and they live as whatever gender they were assigned as. It's not a big deal unless they were reassigned wrong.

Basiorana: I was talking about biologically transitioning only. Obviously it doesn't matter what a therapist says before a person can start living as their chosen gender, but as you say, a therapist can decide when the person starts their hormones, and the later in life a person starts the hormones, the more they look like their birth gender; transwomen who take female hormones before they are 15 are 100% convincing, you could never tell, unless they happen to be biologically very, very tall, but a transwoman who starts in her forties will always have a pronounced Adam's apple, masculine jawline, struggles with facial hair, etc etc.

What about facial feminization surgery? That seems to take care of a lot of those problems. It's not cheap but per the pictures it looks to be extremely effective.

I had a very dear friend who was a TS who began trying to transition in her twenties and ultimately committed suicide because her physical attributes would never let her pass as a woman (she was 6'8", 325 pounds). Being a biological woman and getting bombarded with the media's version of what I should look like, I can't even begin to imagine the hell Rachel went through. "I'm a freak any way you slice it," she said once. I sometimes wonder if she'd been able to get a hold of hormones in her teens before her growth spurt if the effects could have been lessened.

What's the DSM IV diagnostic code for people who are way, way, WAY too concerned with what other people have in their undies?

Marisyana: Basiorana: I was talking about biologically transitioning only. Obviously it doesn't matter what a therapist says before a person can start living as their chosen gender, but as you say, a therapist can decide when the person starts their hormones, and the later in life a person starts the hormones, the more they look like their birth gender; transwomen who take female hormones before they are 15 are 100% convincing, you could never tell, unless they happen to be biologically very, very tall, but a transwoman who starts in her forties will always have a pronounced Adam's apple, masculine jawline, struggles with facial hair, etc etc.

What about facial feminization surgery? That seems to take care of a lot of those problems. It's not cheap but per the pictures it looks to be extremely effective.

I had a very dear friend who was a TS who began trying to transition in her twenties and ultimately committed suicide because her physical attributes would never let her pass as a woman (she was 6'8", 325 pounds). Being a biological woman and getting bombarded with the media's version of what I should look like, I can't even begin to imagine the hell Rachel went through. "I'm a freak any way you slice it," she said once. I sometimes wonder if she'd been able to get a hold of hormones in her teens before her growth spurt if the effects could have been lessened.

As a bio-female who is tall and built pretty sturdily, amen to the whole bombardment from the media and rest of society really sucking. Given how much shiat I got merely for being rather tall and a bit more muscular than the average chick (and thus get TONS of really lovely comments - "Well, you're too ... athletic... to be really pretty, but there's still stuff you can do!"), I can't even begin to fathom how much grief transwomen who are even taller might get from self-appointed guardians of gender.

The people getting so worked up over what other people probably have issues along these lines as well - either they're trans themselves and terrified of it, are possibly gay and terrified of it (thinking that a good looking trans-woman could turn 'em or something), or are crazy in some other way. There's simply no other valid reasons for the ones who are in this thread, posting over and over again how they disagree with the things strangers do to their own bodies, in such forceful terms.

I'm human on the outside, but I'm all sheep on the inside.
At least I have ewes willing to accept me the way I am...

The guy looks cute, but it is a guy.

Minsky: Tainted1: Technically still a man, but a man with a mangled penis and a hormone imbalance.
In "problems of the human condition" that ranks a lot lower than depressed and suicidal. Sorry that an individual's happiness offends you.

I made no such claims, oh lord of butt hurt.

bhcompy: Evenso, I'd never hire someone that talked like an LOLCAT. I can haz maths?

I find it hard to imagine anyone placing you in a position to make hiring decisions. Why not just admit you were wrong, rather than continue digging ?

Link (new window)

As long as a person is happy, why does it matter what their prefrence may be.

there is where all the closet cross dressers come out of the woodwork to defend people on fark.

/it's funny.

She looks to be doing well for herself.

http://kate.craig-wood.com/pics.php

Basiorana: starts in her forties will always have a pronounced Adam's apple, masculine jawline, struggles with facial hair, etc etc.

Surgery can take care of the first two, assuming they're even issues to begin with and they're not always. And the facial hair is taken care of easily enough with laser treatment these days, unless you want to suffer with electrolysis.

Also strictly speaking, and legally speaking, you can bypass the therapist in getting hormones and some medications that help things along, like testosterone antagonists. Actually the latter you never need a therapist's note for since their effects aren't permanent and they don't really lead to any physical changes anyways. But as it is, the guidelines aren't legally binding in any sense. They're just how ideally it's done.

metztli: The people getting so worked up over what other people probably have issues along these lines as well

It's almost exclusively guys who get worked up over it. Women? Rarely ever care. I can only recall a couple in a few years of seeing these threads on Fark, ever getting bent out of shape over the issue.

haemaker: "I thought you said you were born in Iran."

Video goodness

WhyteRaven74: *snort* that made me literally LOL. And thanks :) For me there's nothing worse than missing one of these threads, in part cause they are rare and in part cause there is always one or two people around who do actually care and do actually want to know more.

Just like religion threads!

Wait a sec...

WAIT!

wtf you guys?

If its okay to write an email with typing that's letter-like...

Then why is it NOT okay to write something letter-like instead like an instant messenger?

Is there something wrong with that?

Because its kind of farked up that most people here feel you should type with with paragraphs...

seem to feel that there's a lot wrong typing this.

Some people will call this typing annoying.

Is it really so IMPORTANT when you can understand what's being said?

If the "reality" of typing is to clarify things ANYWAYS...

Then WHY does it matter if you pretend you are using AIM or TWITTER?

Seriously.

What is there to be ashamed of?

Think about it and stop wining.

There's nothing wrong with typing like this... and there's nothing wrong with taking up a lot of spance pointlessly.

So get over it and stop acting like it's some crime against grammar and common sense.

OR is there something WRONG with conversational confusion?

genzoman: there is where all the closet cross dressers come out of the woodwork to defend people on fark.

/it's funny.

Mmm. I guess you're pretty comfortable there in the projection room.

cthellis: Wait a sec...

hehe notice something? ;)

jfarkinB: Mmm. I guess you're pretty comfortable there in the projection room.

*golf clap*

For real? Nobody posted the bikini shot?

/Hot?

radioman_: The guy looks cute, but it is a guy.

She was lucky to have a naturally androgynous face (least I'm assuming it was).