Well, beoswulf (and timefishblue and Goldeneye007), since you've obviously given this issue so much more time, attention, and deep consideration than anyone else, I suppose there's really nothing left to add to the thread.

/lucky enough to be born in the right sort of body
//curious enough to have looked into the issues in some depth anyhow

I would have hit it if I didn't know she was once a man....

Who am I kidding? A va-jay-jay is a va-jay-jay. I'd still hit it.

WhyteRaven74

I know you're fighting the good fight and all, but you can't convince these types of folks about anything. Fear's fear, after all.

I'm almost half-convinced that one or two basement dwellers make up the majority of the pure bile handles. No widespread series of circumstances/personality traits can equate to that much stupid.

So this just proves that a woman has to be a man to succeed in business. Way to reinforce stereotypes, toots.

jfarkinB: Well, beoswulf (and timefishblue and Goldeneye007), since you've obviously given this issue so much more time, attention, and deep consideration than anyone else, I suppose there's really nothing left to add to the thread.

/lucky enough to be born in the right sort of body
//curious enough to have looked into the issues in some depth anyhow

Was I wrong in saying her sex is male and her gender is female? How is her sex female now? Because she got to some approximation of it by having her dick flipped inside out? I thought "sex" was just the physical part that doesn't really matter.

zen_lawndarts: but you can't convince these types of folks about anything

I know that, I just like watching them fumble along as I point out their errors. This is Fark after all, watching people trip over themselves is half the fun of this place ;)

beoswulf: if he was treated as a child he could have benefited greatly, there's a 90%+ cure rate

Mainstream medical journal citation, please? I ask, because you've quoted the same statistic in several of these threads.

Also, please include the same "cure rate" for tweens that have entered puberty. This is an important stat since the rate drops significantly at this point.

Quantum Apostrophe: Goldeneye007: Hmm, ask your parents if you're allowed to read this:
AIS (new window)

It should change their mind, but it will likely only cause confusion, and further anger. "Mongo no like ambiguity in gender! Make Mongo's brain hurt!"

beoswulf:
Great, here come the FARK ad hominem attack defense force.

When something so stunningly ignorant is posted, there is really little else to do. Either you really are that arrogant and ignorant, or you are trolling. Either way you're worthless.

WhyteRaven74: zen_lawndarts: but you can't convince these types of folks about anything

I know that, I just like watching them fumble along as I point out their errors. This is Fark after all, watching people trip over themselves is half the fun of this place ;)

LOL. love it

\ great gams

Don't judge her. Do you have any idea what it's like being a fembot, living in a manbot's manputer's world?

Kate Craig-Wood

Heh.

It's astounding how this 'cult' is so motivated to promote the myth of transsexualism that's nothing more than a relic from the days when mental illness was a serious stigma.

Seems pretty clear from 100 Watt Walrus's 2 pics that one is early one and one is late. She even said in the article that she was beginning to become attractive. The difference between those two pics is pretty substantial, actually.

There's some wierdos that like to dress in womens' clothes but I have to say that if you're willing to take the step to have your penis removed then you're pretty damn serious and it's not just a "hobby". So I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and call her a she without any quotes around it.

In all of recorded history there have only been a very few people that have been able to live life from the perspective of both genders. It must be an interesting experience, to say the least. Maybe she should write a book not for transgenders, but for the rest of us so that we can better understand each other.

beoswulf: It's astounding how this 'cult' is so motivated to promote the myth of transsexualism that's nothing more than a relic from the days when mental illness was a serious stigma.

It's funny how some people still dogmatically insist that the brain doesn't have gender, in spite of the overwhelming evidence gathered in the past few decades. The blank slate hypothesis is the real relic here.

Zombalupagus: Seems pretty clear from 100 Watt Walrus's 2 pics that one is early one and one is late. She even said in the article that she was beginning to become attractive. The difference between those two pics is pretty substantial, actually.

Um, the second pic is of someone else. 100 Watt Walrus was comparing the two people.

What you're saying may be true, but those pics don't apply.

Goldeneye007: Sorry, her gender and sex is male. whether or not you want to believe otherwise.

Really, because you're so absolutely certain that it's as black and white as XX and XY are you? Go do some reading.

beoswulf: if he was treated as a child he could have benefited greatly, there's a 90%+ cure rate,

Citation needed. Are you John Money in disguise?

beoswulf: It's astounding how this 'cult' is so motivated to promote the myth of transsexualism that's nothing more than a relic from the days when mental illness was a serious stigma.

I'd invite you to read "As Nature Made Him" to see how wrong you are, but I suspect that you won't even try.

WhyteRaven74: Goldeneye007: Sorry, her gender and sex is male. whether or not you want to believe otherwise.

What you want to believe doesn't overturn what's well accepted in psychological, anthropological and sociological circles.

Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Zombalupagus: Seems pretty clear from 100 Watt Walrus's 2 pics that one is early one and one is late. She even said in the article that she was beginning to become attractive. The difference between those two pics is pretty substantial, actually.

Um, the second pic is of someone else. 100 Watt Walrus was comparing the two people.

What you're saying may be true, but those pics don't apply.

Geez, no one recognizes Starbuck (Katee Sackhoff)? She does look different with long hair, but c'mon. I lusted after Boomer much more, but she looks good in that shot for sure.

Goldeneye007: WhyteRaven74: Goldeneye007: Sorry, her gender and sex is male. whether or not you want to believe otherwise.

What you want to believe doesn't overturn what's well accepted in psychological, anthropological and sociological circles.

Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

I'm guessing there are fellow southerners who would like for you to stop reinforcing negative stereotypes about the intolerance and ignorance of southerners.

Goldeneye007: WhyteRaven74: Goldeneye007: Sorry, her gender and sex is male. whether or not you want to believe otherwise.

What you want to believe doesn't overturn what's well accepted in psychological, anthropological and sociological circles.

Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

Looks like the ad hominem arguments are coming from both sides now.

Goldeneye007: Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

And yours is?

spqr_ca: Goldeneye007: Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

And yours is?

Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

Goldeneye007: spqr_ca: Goldeneye007: Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

And yours is?

Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

Right, so when you have a doctoral degree--more specifically, one in a field that directly pertains to issues of gender, sex, and sexuality--then you can come back and argue against organizations such as the APA.

austerity101: Goldeneye007: spqr_ca: Goldeneye007: Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

And yours is?

Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

Right, so when you have a doctoral degree--more specifically, one in a field that directly pertains to issues of gender, sex, and sexuality--then you can come back and argue against organizations such as the APA.


But that wouldn't be a real degree at all.

Goldeneye007: Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

And that makes you qualified to dismiss other disciplines does it? No offense dude, but it's people with your discipline that have continually screwed the world economy over and over again thus leaving us with a definite sense that every idiot has your degree.

I just watched an interesting documentary about this called "Trinidad". Did you know Trinidad, CO was the Transsexual capital of the world?

I think there are some people who have this procedure who need it. I also think there are some people, and this is borne out by the doc above, who get it because of psychological issues or societal pressures that could have been addressed and would have kept them from losing everything (wives, kids, jobs, etc) and feeling like this surgery was their only option to get their lives back.

This woman look like one of the former. Intelligent, centered, successful, and now a woman. She also looks very happy, which is important. Considering all the bone-density issues, muscular issues, and hormone issues she's going to encounter over the rest of her life, I certainly hope this was the right thing for her to do.

buk110

Silly troll, taking it from behind and removing one's junk are mutually exclusive.

I'm guessing the Bible says whatever it needs to in order to perpetuate your unfathomable hatred for everyone else. Any piece of literature that tells me that while I and everyone else are formed in the image of a perfect being I nonetheless have the moral responsibility to condemn them for not being more like me is of course the perfect argument ender. Any arbitrary view (all vegetable stands need firebombing,etc.) are equally defensible using such rubbish.

views, dammit. Shiner thread's got me a bit the worse for wear.

I've done my part WhyteRaven74, such as it was, and believe I'll turn in for the evening. Good luck.

Repo Man: Quantum Apostrophe: Goldeneye007: Hmm, ask your parents if you're allowed to read this:
AIS (new window)

It should change their mind, but it will likely only cause confusion, and further anger. "Mongo no like ambiguity in gender! Make Mongo's brain hurt!"

They'll get a kick out of fetal development. As if something so complex goes smoothly all the time.
Link (new window)
Link (new window)

Here's a good book. (new window)

On the hot side of "average English chick". Though that might be owing more to the decent teeth.

spqr_ca: Goldeneye007: Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

And that makes you qualified to dismiss other disciplines does it? No offense dude, but it's people with your discipline that have continually screwed the world economy over and over again thus leaving us with a definite sense that every idiot has your degree.

It is true that we screwed things up the last time, but we will also be the ones to fix it. There's a reason that WE have the keys to the local, state, federal, and world economies. It is because some of the best and the brightest come through our discipline to be challenged and to learn. The hardest thing I've ever seen on any anthro/psych/soc test was a couple of vague matching and multiple choice questions. I could probably sit down with a good book of Cliffsnotes for a couple of hours and be as well versed in the subject as one who went through four years of the subject.

Doesn't matter how screwed up "her" brain is, "she" is a he. Mental illness does not change that.

/I draw the line after homosexuals
//the rest are messed up and need therapy, execution, etc.

sbrister: \ great gams

thanks :)

Goldeneye007: Yeah, the fields that any idiot can get a degree in.

Getting a PhD in any of them takes far more work than most people will subject themselves to just for the sake of a degree. Even a PhD in psycho leading to a nice office job is a ton of work. At least you won't have to travel who knows where to do your research.

Repo Man: I'm guessing there are fellow southerners who would like for you to stop reinforcing negative stereotypes about the intolerance and ignorance of southerners.

I always found Shelby Foote to be a quick remedy for the idea southerners are all dumb yokels, his books on the Civil War are wonders if research and writing.

Goldeneye007: working on a master's degree in Finance

And you complain about other people's degrees? Pot, meet kettle, kettle, pot.

buk110: And it's a slap in the face of God. The Bible says we are on this earth to procreate ... there is no way that fag can ever produce a child.

Actually the Bible doesn't exactly say that. Though it does say the God creates nothing he loathes nor loathes anything in creation.

Lost Thought 00: Meh, basically a white, more feminine version of Serena Williams.

FTFY

zen_lawndarts: Good luck.

thanks

Quantum Apostrophe: As if something so complex goes smoothly all the time.

I love Fark. If it is known, someone here knows it.

irrational: Doesn't matter how screwed up "her" brain is, "she" is a he

Nice job assuming human development is limited to the binary categorical constructs of western logic.

Goldeneye007: It is because some of the best and the brightest come through our discipline to be challenged and to learn.

The best and brightest are off in physics, math both pure and applied, engineering fields, chemistry and a few others. Finance? Not exactly.

WhyteRaven74: The best and brightest are off in physics, math both pure and applied, engineering fields, chemistry and a few others. Finance? Not exactly.

I love physics. Too bad there's not a whole lot of work out there that pay enough to justify the difficulty. I'll probably end up in EE, computer engineering, mechanical engineering, software development or similar.

/Still doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up.

There are to genders, male and female. No crossovers, only mutants with serious mental issues. I suppose we shouldn't treat schizophrenics because they should be bound by western ideas of consciousness? You feel you were born wrong? Too bad. Get help.

beoswulf: This dude suffers from a DSM listed Gender Identity Disorder, if he was treated as a child he could have benefited greatly, there's a 90%+ cure rate, the vast majority of little boys that want to mangle their genitals grow up to be healthy gay adult male and safe from the risks of unnecessary surgery and hormones at inappropriate dosages. ( for more info google the Village Voice article See Tom be Jane)

Unfortunately there is a cult-like community of enablers that are like very much like Scientologists in more ways their one; particularly in their vicious character assassinations of anybody that points the double standard for mentally ill men claiming to be women vs the mentally ill claiming to be historical figures.

The DSM-V won't have Gender Identity Disorder listed in it, much like the DSM-IV doesn't have homosexuality as a disorder anymore.

WhyteRaven74:
Goldeneye007: It is because some of the best and the brightest come through our discipline to be challenged and to learn.

The best and brightest are off in physics, math both pure and applied, engineering fields, chemistry and a few others. Finance? Not exactly.

What do you think Finance is? It's about as applied as math can get.

irrational: There are to genders, male and female. No crossovers, only mutants with serious mental issues. I suppose we shouldn't treat schizophrenics because they should be bound by western ideas of consciousness? You feel you were born wrong? Too bad. Get help.

Get help? Isn't that what they're doing? As far as I know, people undergo extensive psycological screening before a doctor will endorse gender reassignment surgery. People just don't decode that they'd like to be one way or another willy nilly. I'm pretty sure they've always felt one way or another. If it makes 'em happy, where's the harm?

/Southerner
//Is typing from a phone

buk110: Wow he's really cute - I bet he puts out on a first date.

No matter what you say or how you try to spin it...That's a man. And it's a slap in the face of God. The Bible says we are on this earth to procreate ... there is no way that fag can ever produce a child.

And that's all he is...a fag that wanted to take it from behind so he got his junk removed....

Sickening...

Let's see... unicorns, giants, People screwing their daughters... Hmm... I don't see any trolls in your bullshiat book. Nice try.

WhyteRaven74: beoswulf: the vast majority of little boys that want to mangle their genitals grow up to be healthy gay adult male

you're assuming these boys grow into men who have any sexual interest in men.

He's also assuming that banging dudes is inherently better than having a vajayjay.

Monkeypillow: /Still doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up.

grow up? Who'd ever do a silly thing like that? ;)

Bestbank Tiger: He's also assuming that banging dudes is inherently better than having a vajayjay.

Also another erroneous assumption he makes, yes :)

Goldeneye007: What do you think Finance is? It's about as applied as math can get.

I think some actuaries might take issue with that. Also given how many people with nothing but math backgrounds I've seen around finance, that is people with MS's or PhD's in math, hardly seems worthwhile to have a whole separate field of study.

WhyteRaven74: Monkeypillow: /Still doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up.

grow up? Who'd ever do a silly thing like that? ;)

Me, to a certain extent. I don't much care for responsibility, but I really enjoy stuff -- expensive stuff. I figure my parents will cut me off at some point, so I should find a way to support my hobbies doing something I enjoy. Fortunately for me, a lot of my interests happen to pay very well.

WhyteRaven... nice gams, indeed.

Also, I laud you for trying to educate the neanderthals, but I fear it is a lost cause. I picture it the same as some abolitionist trying to convince a plantation owner in South Carolina in 1860 that those black folks are indeed human beings and have rights, too.

Goldeneye007: spqr_ca: Goldeneye007: Econ & Math, working on a master's degree in Finance.

And that makes you qualified to dismiss other disciplines does it? No offense dude, but it's people with your discipline that have continually screwed the world economy over and over again thus leaving us with a definite sense that every idiot has your degree.

It is true that we screwed things up the last time, but we will also be the ones to fix it. There's a reason that WE have the keys to the local, state, federal, and world economies. It is because some of the best and the brightest come through our discipline to be challenged and to learn. The hardest thing I've ever seen on any anthro/psych/soc test was a couple of vague matching and multiple choice questions. I could probably sit down with a good book of Cliffsnotes for a couple of hours and be as well versed in the subject as one who went through four years of the subject.

You can't actually believe this. My ex-roommate is a math genius, and he is now working in algorithmic trading at Barclay's (formerly Lehman Bros.). Even he is willing to admit that these peeps are one of (the many) parties responsible for the meltdown (think about all the confusing derivatives designed by these Quants). He also harbors no illusions that this is really going to change or that he (or any of these finance whizzes) are going to do anything to improve the situation.

Why is he doing it then, you ask? Because he absolutely loves applied math, and he wants to play with the newest computer toys, and he didn't want a PhD.

Plus, he wanted to move to NYC, where his family is from, and he is making serious bank right of a masters program.