I couldn't let the day pass without posting about my favorite document from my all-time favorite president.

Thomas Jefferson may have been a hypocrite, but he was an intentional hypocrite. He had ideals that he knew he couldn't reach, but sewed the seeds to correct the nations wrongs, even if it took generations. Today, we still struggle to realize the concepts of freedom that T.J. had conceptualized in a period where nobody could have handled the reality of those freedoms. Luckily for this country, the few people who envisioned a future United States with our degree of freedom and fairness convinced the subconscience of millions to follow along. Thomas Jefferson may not be credited with being the supreme founding father of this nation, but with forceful pen in hand, he certainly steered the country into its current shape and direction.

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
I see, you really are an idiot. Just because I do not see any abuse does not mean that it isn't happening. Unlike you, I am not all seeing. And my statement does not negate the possibility that people were abusing power before Bush was President.

I never said that you were all seeing, I even pointed out to something obama is doing that many see as an abuse, specifically that he insists that he can and will get mobile phone location data without a warrant, even historical records. Wired and many others have written articles on this and how many legal scholars disagree with this position. You seem to have ignored this tidbit, which I provided simply because I did not want to assume that you were all seeing. I further asked in the same post (which was the original one that started a conversation with you) about the other people, both present and historical abusing power. Your response to that was that you see no abuses, even after some were pointed out to you.



I call ONE person and asshole and somehow that means that I have called everybody an asshole? Seriously, do you not see why I think you are an idiot and that you are delusional??

I never said that you called everyone an asshole, I limited it to people who disagree with you, and also left open other things that you have called people. Your reading comprehension fails you young padwan.


In one post you contradict yourself and attack me. That is very intelligent of you. You first accuse me of calling everybody who disagrees with me and asshole and then you admit that I called one person an asshole. And to top it all off, you don't think that you are making shiat up in your head!!

Again, I never said that you called everyone who disagrees with you an asshole, I said you call them an asshole or other things, such as paranoid, I do seem to recall mentioning that, and some other stuff. But hey, if you want to ignore stuff just to make yourself feel better, by all means go ahead. Everyone needs some way to boost their self esteem, at least you have discovered something that works for you.

"he insists that he can and will" Has he actually done it yet? Maybe you are not aware of this, but just because a President says that he will do something does not mean that it is a law. Until he actually does it, it is not abuse. And even if he does do it, I would wait to see what the courts have to say before I call it abuse. THAT is why I ignored your "point". It is meaningless.

This is what you said: "And if anyone disagrees with you and your kool-aid view they are either an asshole or insane." That seems all inclusive to me. You left no wiggle room there. Now I know for a fact that you are a liar. I really have no use for liars.

Bauer
am i wrong?

Yes. In the future, if the question crosses your mind again, always go with yes. It's like being able to bet against a Double-0, it's just about impossible to lose.

nicksteel: Bio-nic: nicksteel
You missed the point entirely.

Tyranny doesn't happen in a day. It's a slow, corrosive process that takes years. The only way to stop it is to PREVENT IT from starting. Something Americans have been loath to do as we think we need security more than liberty in this modern age.

If we are free, we don't need protection, as we can protect ourselves, or not. It's a choice. You take that choice away, and you see police states like NK and Iran take advantage of

Yes, there are tyrannical governments out there already, NK being one of them. We can dictate that they are horrible and wrong and evil and all other ills, but we are VERY MUCH starting to become like them in disturbing and scary ways...

My point that I think you are carefully ignoring is that we are not a police state YET, but if we keep letting people who abuse power continue to abuse that power, your country will end up in a state much like NK.

I did not miss your point. The point is that you are paranoid. We do not live in a police state, we are not living in anything that resembles a police state. Nobody is abusing any power (now that Bush is no longer in the White House). You are fully protected by the Constitution, the courts and the law.

Take your meds like a good little camper and then go take a nap.

here

here

Soo, yes, we are still living in a situation where those rights are being questioned by the people in power. Check out anything at policeabuse.com while you're at it.

nicksteel:
"he insists that he can and will" Has he actually done it yet? Maybe you are not aware of this, but just because a President says that he will do something does not mean that it is a law. Until he actually does it, it is not abuse. And even if he does do it, I would wait to see what the courts have to say before I call it abuse. THAT is why I ignored your "point". It is meaningless.


What about the retroactive taxes? He signed that one into law, and congress passed it to get it to his desk. Ex post facto and all that.

What about the 10th amendment violations?

There are plenty of examples, should you choose to look at them, my guess is that you wont because of your comment about bush and the insults you have flung at several people who disagree with you, ya know calling anyone who disagreed with you and your kool-aid view an asshole or insane.


This is what you said: "And if anyone disagrees with you and your kool-aid view they are either an asshole or insane." That seems all inclusive to me. You left no wiggle room there. Now I know for a fact that you are a liar. I really have no use for liars.

paranoia is a mental disease. You accused me of having delusions for making that very comment, which kinda proved my point better than I could. At least you have proved that I did not say as you said it the first time "that you called everyone an asshole" and then the 2nd time "that everyone who disagrees with you an asshole". Thank you for admitting you were wrong. I appreciate that. It means so much that you are adult enough to actually admit that you were wrong and to actually quote me without redacting what I said, like you did when you paraphrased me a few minutes ago, really it does mean a lot to me, honest.

Bio-nic: nicksteel: Bio-nic: nicksteel
You missed the point entirely.

Tyranny doesn't happen in a day. It's a slow, corrosive process that takes years. The only way to stop it is to PREVENT IT from starting. Something Americans have been loath to do as we think we need security more than liberty in this modern age.

If we are free, we don't need protection, as we can protect ourselves, or not. It's a choice. You take that choice away, and you see police states like NK and Iran take advantage of

Yes, there are tyrannical governments out there already, NK being one of them. We can dictate that they are horrible and wrong and evil and all other ills, but we are VERY MUCH starting to become like them in disturbing and scary ways...

My point that I think you are carefully ignoring is that we are not a police state YET, but if we keep letting people who abuse power continue to abuse that power, your country will end up in a state much like NK.

I did not miss your point. The point is that you are paranoid. We do not live in a police state, we are not living in anything that resembles a police state. Nobody is abusing any power (now that Bush is no longer in the White House). You are fully protected by the Constitution, the courts and the law.

Take your meds like a good little camper and then go take a nap.

here

here

Soo, yes, we are still living in a situation where those rights are being questioned by the people in power. Check out anything at policeabuse.com while you're at it.

your first link: "urged a federal judge" that bastard!! He actually urged somebody!! What's next?? A strongly worded note??

your second link: The man said "that would be subject to constitutional challenge". That is lawyer speak. I guess you need to have a President who uses little words that you can quickly understand.

you have shown me NO actual abuse of power. You have displayed that you are paranoid.

McCain lost. Get over it.

A few years back I went through every grievence listed and found that almost all apply today to the people of the USA versus the US Government and it's domination by King Corporation. Ol' TJ must be clawing at his grave to get out, grab an arsenal of democracy and kick the shiite out of every scumbag in office these days. The people are damned in this nation until we actually do this all over again against the corporate-controlled government. Sound crazy? Probably. But look at the stimulus crap and the bailouts. All going to the wealthy, who then ship the money to offshore accounts and the jobs to China. Meanwhile college grads are forced to work at Wal-Mart, shop at Wal-Mart, eat at Wal-Mart and live in overpriced hell-holes near a Wal-Mart. And those are the lucky ones. In my neighborhood there is no Wal-Mart and it's like a third-world nation, or south-central L.A. or even Detroit -- a neighborhood that 20 years ago was an upper middle-class place brimming with vibrant small businesses and a myriad of choices for employment and consumption. Corporate overlords hate choice. We live in the regressive age of turning back to the monopolies of the 19th Century. So revolution is the only way out and believe me it is coming sooner than you think. Once the USA hits 20% unemployment ( officially, it actually already is unofficially ) you'll see some serious hell break loose.

/ ammunition will be worth more than gold.

// I've got a LOT of more-than-gold

/// No, not a wingnut, can't stand the Rebublicrats or Demopublicans, they're all the same.

Bio-nic: nicksteel: Bio-nic: nicksteel
Take your meds like a good little camper and then go take a nap.



Just to let you know, he never said that, he denied it in a later post so it must be true!

nicksteel:


You are too immature for any of the above to be true.


moar funny pictures

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
"he insists that he can and will" Has he actually done it yet? Maybe you are not aware of this, but just because a President says that he will do something does not mean that it is a law. Until he actually does it, it is not abuse. And even if he does do it, I would wait to see what the courts have to say before I call it abuse. THAT is why I ignored your "point". It is meaningless.


What about the retroactive taxes? He signed that one into law, and congress passed it to get it to his desk. Ex post facto and all that.

What about the 10th amendment violations?

There are plenty of examples, should you choose to look at them, my guess is that you wont because of your comment about bush and the insults you have flung at several people who disagree with you, ya know calling anyone who disagreed with you and your kool-aid view an asshole or insane.


This is what you said: "And if anyone disagrees with you and your kool-aid view they are either an asshole or insane." That seems all inclusive to me. You left no wiggle room there. Now I know for a fact that you are a liar. I really have no use for liars.

paranoia is a mental disease. You accused me of having delusions for making that very comment, which kinda proved my point better than I could. At least you have proved that I did not say as you said it the first time "that you called everyone an asshole" and then the 2nd time "that everyone who disagrees with you an asshole". Thank you for admitting you were wrong. I appreciate that. It means so much that you are adult enough to actually admit that you were wrong and to actually quote me without redacting what I said, like you did when you paraphrased me a few minutes ago, really it does mean a lot to me, honest.

Like I said, I have no use for liars. You are a waste of time. Say what you want. I really do not care. I have no respect at all for a liar. You mean as much to me as a shiat eating dog.

nicksteel:
you have shown me NO actual abuse of power. You have displayed that you are paranoid.

McCain lost. Get over it.

You actually think its over mccain? Wow that is amazing.

Oscar Grant

Nope the government has not abused its power once since bush was out of office, its utopia now.

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
you have shown me NO actual abuse of power. You have displayed that you are paranoid.

McCain lost. Get over it.

You actually think its over mccain? Wow that is amazing.

Oscar Grant

Nope the government has not abused its power once since bush was out of office, its utopia now.

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

nicksteel:
Like I said, I have no use for liars. You are a waste of time. Say what you want. I really do not care. I have no respect at all for a liar. You mean as much to me as a shiat eating dog.


Dont be so hard on yourself, surely you can find a use for yourself, liar or not. I may be a waste of time, but lets not kid ourselves we both know, as do many who are reading this, that its over my disagreement with your kool-aid views and not over anything else. You should respect yourself, even if you are a liar now, you can change I am sure there is a 12 step program that you can join. Fortunately everything I have said can be verified by the posts that I have given, you however have intentionally misled, or as some call it lie.

nicksteel:

Like I said, I have no use for liars. You are a waste of time. Say what you want. I really do not care. I have no respect at all for a liar. You mean as much to me as a shiat eating dog.

Yet you can't shut up about it. Go figure.

nicksteel: trixter_nl: nicksteel:
you have shown me NO actual abuse of power. You have displayed that you are paranoid.

McCain lost. Get over it.

You actually think its over mccain? Wow that is amazing.

Oscar Grant

Nope the government has not abused its power once since bush was out of office, its utopia now.

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

you mean that is not an abuse of power? Huh, I thought when cops have an unarmed suspect in custody who is not resisting and they shoot him in the back while being held down by other cops it would be considered an abuse of power. I guess you have a different dictionary than I do. Mine is english what is yours?

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
Like I said, I have no use for liars. You are a waste of time. Say what you want. I really do not care. I have no respect at all for a liar. You mean as much to me as a shiat eating dog.


Dont be so hard on yourself, surely you can find a use for yourself, liar or not. I may be a waste of time, but lets not kid ourselves we both know, as do many who are reading this, that its over my disagreement with your kool-aid views and not over anything else. You should respect yourself, even if you are a liar now, you can change I am sure there is a 12 step program that you can join. Fortunately everything I have said can be verified by the posts that I have given, you however have intentionally misled, or as some call it lie.

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

nicksteel:
you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

aww the liar has a hard time coming up with new comebacks. I am guessing that he is really pissed now after being caught lying about things (hey its just fark, wtf) and he cant formulate anything better than the same tired response. Maybe we should let him cry in peace and just get it all out of his system, what do you say guys? Should we let him cry in peace after being proved a liar and unable to comprehend english? I mean he has been calling people names for a while now, this rage has to have been building up for some time. Yet his compulsion to talk about how obama won and now there are no more governmental abuses, and mccain lost proving that discussions about abuses are just about who got elected and not actually about the abuses themselves.

I hope he doesnt pop a blood vessel in his brain, that would be bad.

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

aww the liar has a hard time coming up with new comebacks. I am guessing that he is really pissed now after being caught lying about things (hey its just fark, wtf) and he cant formulate anything better than the same tired response. Maybe we should let him cry in peace and just get it all out of his system, what do you say guys? Should we let him cry in peace after being proved a liar and unable to comprehend english? I mean he has been calling people names for a while now, this rage has to have been building up for some time. Yet his compulsion to talk about how obama won and now there are no more governmental abuses, and mccain lost proving that discussions about abuses are just about who got elected and not actually about the abuses themselves.

I hope he doesnt pop a blood vessel in his brain, that would be bad.

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

Emperorsteele: Duty, not a right. If you don't need to be protected, fine, but who's to say no one needs to be protected from you? We don't make checkpoints to protect the drunk drivers, we do it to protect everyone ELSE on the road. And don't tell me you've never done anything which may have resulted in someone else getting hurt if the shiat had hit the fan (if so, i guess you've lived a pretty boring life!). It's that hypothetical "IF" that we need to worry about.

I'll point out that he didn't say government had a duty to just protect us from others, but to protect us from ourselves. And that's a thought that will scare any rational person out there. If it doesn't scare you, the preceding sentence doesn't apply.

ScottHimself
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Was not said by a founding father. The guy everybody says said said himself that he didn't say it. Let's not even get into the fact that the saying inself directly implies that there are both non-essential freedoms, and that it's okay to give those up. For some reason every person I've seen throw that around thinks the freedom to do anything up to and including picking his nose is an essential one.

Bauer
an uneducated populace is easier to control.

this is the main reason the gop hates teachers unions and lawyers.

Uh huh, and the fact that the Democrats single largest voting block is to be found among those without a high school education has nothing to do with it, right?

cry0fan: Madison wrote that "democracy was not right
for america."

XXX

Wraithbane
cry0fan: Madison wrote that "democracy was not right
for america."

Oooops, sorry about that, was going to say, "And he was right, too."

trixter_nl: nicksteel: trixter_nl: nicksteel:
you have shown me NO actual abuse of power. You have displayed that you are paranoid.

McCain lost. Get over it.

You actually think its over mccain? Wow that is amazing.

Oscar Grant

Nope the government has not abused its power once since bush was out of office, its utopia now.

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

you mean that is not an abuse of power? Huh, I thought when cops have an unarmed suspect in custody who is not resisting and they shoot him in the back while being held down by other cops it would be considered an abuse of power. I guess you have a different dictionary than I do. Mine is english what is yours?

you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

/improved
//was arrested

nicksteel:
you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

this is so funny that you are so pissed over a conversation that you were proved to be a liar and wrong in that you cant come up with anything different, its amazing that you can even type, although my guess is that you are just pasting this with a mouse click because your rage has so ensnared your mind that you cant type. Its just too funny. Thanks I needed a good laugh after reading your stupidity earlier.

Okay, Okay, nicksteel wins. Hes' brains and balls are obviously bigger than anyone elses on fark, and he has offically derailed a thread with his troll fu... he gets 5/10 for his longevity, and 8/10 for the number of involved parties.

That of course, doesn't change the fact that the abuse of federal power is happening, that we are slowly devolving into a police like state, and that we have wandered from what the original framers of the constitution intended this country to be, BUT!!!

TALLY HO TROLL!

/going to watch the fireworks

trixter_nl: nicksteel:
you really have a hard time understanding plain English.

this is so funny that you are so pissed over a conversation that you were proved to be a liar and wrong in that you cant come up with anything different, its amazing that you can even type, although my guess is that you are just pasting this with a mouse click because your rage has so ensnared your mind that you cant type. Its just too funny. Thanks I needed a good laugh after reading your stupidity earlier.

Don't flatter yourself. You have not pissed me off, nor could you. I told you that I have no respect for you, why would I allow you to piss me off?? Why do you think that I would want to continue having a conversation with you after you have shown yourself to be a liar??

Go peddle your lies to somebody who cares.

nicksteel:

Don't flatter yourself. You have not pissed me off, nor could you. I told you that I have no respect for you, why would I allow you to piss me off?? Why do you think that I would want to continue having a conversation with you after you have shown yourself to be a liar??

Go peddle your lies to somebody who cares.


and yet you do, you have responded to every post I have made since you first lied about not caring what I say. Your actions prove that you do care, greatly, about the fact that I caught you lying and proved that you are an idiot. You also seem to get more upset when I point out that you bring up mccain losing as justification for documented police abuse, something that has no real bearing as a rebuttal to that, but fine, you seemed to get mildly upset over me calling you on the obama stuff as well. It seems that your new religion is failing you, much like your reading comprehension and ability to control your rage has previously failed you.

nicksteel:

Don't flatter yourself. You have not pissed me off, nor could you. I told you that I have no respect for you, why would I allow you to piss me off?? Why do you think that I would want to continue having a conversation with you after you have shown yourself to be a liar??

Go peddle your lies to somebody who cares.

Yet you can't stop talking about it. Go figure.

trixter_nl: nicksteel:

Don't flatter yourself. You have not pissed me off, nor could you. I told you that I have no respect for you, why would I allow you to piss me off?? Why do you think that I would want to continue having a conversation with you after you have shown yourself to be a liar??

Go peddle your lies to somebody who cares.


and yet you do, you have responded to every post I have made since you first lied about not caring what I say. Your actions prove that you do care, greatly, about the fact that I caught you lying and proved that you are an idiot. You also seem to get more upset when I point out that you bring up mccain losing as justification for documented police abuse, something that has no real bearing as a rebuttal to that, but fine, you seemed to get mildly upset over me calling you on the obama stuff as well. It seems that your new religion is failing you, much like your reading comprehension and ability to control your rage has previously failed you.

I see, you think that my responding to you means that I care, okay

Bio-nic: Okay, Okay, nicksteel wins. Hes' brains and balls are obviously bigger than anyone elses on fark, and he has offically derailed a thread with his troll fu... he gets 5/10 for his longevity, and 8/10 for the number of involved parties.

That of course, doesn't change the fact that the abuse of federal power is happening, that we are slowly devolving into a police like state, and that we have wandered from what the original framers of the constitution intended this country to be, BUT!!!

TALLY HO TROLL!

/going to watch the fireworks

this thread was never about the intentions of the framers of the Constitution.

nicksteel: trixter_nl: nicksteel:
Like I said, I have no use for liars. You are a waste of time. Say what you want. I really do not care. I have no respect at all for a liar. You mean as much to me as a shiat eating dog.

nicksteel: trixter_nl: nicksteel:

I see, you think that my responding to you means that I care, okay


Have it your way, you take great pleasure in talking to shiat eating dogs. My guess is that is the only place you can find a conversation on your level where everyone involved will agree with you, thus lowering your rage levels. Its kinda sad actually, bordering on pathetic that you take fark this seriously. But hey, its not like I was proved to be a liar so I do have that jading my perspective, you however were not so fortunate.

nicksteel:
this thread was never about the intentions of the framers of the Constitution.

it was just about you trolling and unable to come up with different responses once you wigged out and got so enraged about being caught lying and someone dared question the relationship between mccain losing the election and documented police abuse?

Gotacha, i understand now

The framers intended for us to pay for invasions halfway around the world with the bail money we had to put up from growing the wrong plant.

/don't be gay, either
//happy 4th, enjoy the "freedom"

Remember Abeer Hamza.

"Ah, yes, the `unalienable rights.' Each year someone quotes that
magnificent poetry. Life? What `right' to life has a man who is drowning in
the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What `right' to life
has a man who must die if he is to save his children? If he chooses to save
his own life, does he do so as a matter of `right'? If two men are starving
and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is
`unalienable'? And is it `right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed that
great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty
is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of
patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called `natural human rights'
that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is
never free of cost.
"The third `right'? -- the `pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed
unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which
tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn
me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can `pursue happiness' as long as
my brain lives -- but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs,
can insure that I will catch it."

Best to have someone like him in place before the revolution, rather than just knee-jerking for more of the SOS at every rugged election.

trixter_nl: 006andahalf: kronicfeld: *Except for negroes and women.

and the gheys
and in certain cases, mesicans, japs, chinks, wops, spics, jews, and greasers.

you forgot native americans, ya know the people that were here 16000 years before the US.

You mean the "the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

"It's just a piece of paper!"

/Guess who said that
//Hint:
///He eats shiat and retards make him look smart

Very late to this party, but just got back from DC. May all you farkers and farkettes have a safe and HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!

\Safe? Who am I kidding, half of you probably said hey y'all watch this.
\\Would have said and done the same things with the bottle rockets myself.
\\\Happy FOURTH!!!

Klingon Penis: They got Thomas Paine, we get:

Which isn't bad, I got it through itunes. He goes after both Bush & Obama and congressmen on both sidesScottHimself: Emperorsteele:
Duty, not a right. If you don't need to be protected, fine, but who's to say no one needs to be protected from you? We don't make checkpoints to protect the drunk drivers, we do it to protect everyone ELSE on the road. And don't tell me you've never done anything which may have resulted in someone else getting hurt if the shiat had hit the fan (if so, i guess you've lived a pretty boring life!). It's that hypothetical "IF" that we need to worry about.

Since this is a Founding Fathers thread...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

/came here to say that
//well done
///Franklin again BTW.

I don't think my homeowners association would allow something like that.

It's your choice to live with an HOA; if you didn't want to live with one why did you move to your current abode? You made the decision to live there. Are you afraid of something ?

madblader
/Guess who said that
//Hint:
///He eats shiat and retards make him look smart

You did, but don't worry, retards don't make you look smart. They don't also buy everything bad said about someone just because they don't like him. Hint: Absolutely no credible evidence he said it, only a bunch of morons who think "Well, it sounds like something I think he would say".

ensign_noname
///Franklin again BTW.

No, it was NOT Franklin. FFS, Franklin himself said he didn't say it. Back to middy for you.

Grouchy Old Bear: FlashHarry: when i brought up the phrase "...and the pursuit of happiness" in a gay marriage debate here on fark, a fark "conservative" told me straight-faced that the key word there is "pursuit" - as in, "all y'all gheys can pursue equality all you want - but nobody's saying you're actually gonna get it!"

Question from the audience: How can you tell someone "told you straight-faced" in a text chat?

well there's a thing known as "context," but i suppose he/she could've been pulling my leg.

none of you drones has addressed my points. I guess CorpGovMedia has not given you a script for those points.

/whatta surprise!

cry0fan: none of you drones has addressed my points. I guess CorpGovMedia has not given you a script for those points.

/whatta surprise!

There's this saying about not arguing with idiots because they'll just drag you down to their level. We're merely observing that saying and ignoring you.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

OK. Imbibement check points are cancelled, the war on drugs is over, you can smoke 'til your lungs rot. Hell- you are free to bunjii off whatever stationary object you like and climb wahtever mountain you want in the dead of winter.

Are YOU now willing to take some responsibility for your actions? Can you insure humanity that after a night of bar hopping that you'll remain in your lane proper? Are you responsible enough to stay home when stoned rather then set out jumping off stationary objects into oncoming traffic. Care to sign an insurance waiver or cover the costs of being rescued in the event your choice in pursuing your happiness doesn't work out as planned? Not having to cover the costs generated by all those x-tremists getting stuck while climbing mountains in the off season sure would be nice. Care to reimburse the boss for that 'day after' that caused you to damage the copier then remain in the bathroom for the next 4 hours 'trying to get it together'?

Pursuit of whatever makes you happy is a good thing- freedom to do so is an inalienable right and the unwillingness to preserve this right should result in the forfeiture of it *however* only if this right does not infringe upon others to pursue their rights (which may include freedom from wanton endangerment).

Look at the spirit of the law- is it to restrict your freedom or is it to enhance the environment of freedom for all?

Re: Limiting freedom vs. safety quote- totally out of context if you are trying to apply it to drunk driving check points, drug laws and other limitations to personal freedom. What was meant was that those who would continue to live under British rule in an effort to avoid war with England did not deserve the same liberties as those who were willing to sacrifice personal property or life in an effort to secure it.

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. - Samuel Adams

happy belated 4th y'all

Nocens: YouWinAgainGravity: trixter_nl: ///studied US law since 1992

you were a very poor student then


He's actually 100% correct.

They don't constitutionally have the power they claim to wield. But, they are the most powerful branch of the government and the only checks against them are long in between.

Somewhere along the line, SCOTUS deviated in its mission to interpret the Constitution to the letter forcing American society to evolve within its constraints and embarked on interpretation to fit society's evolution.

Yep. In the early 19th century (1803, I think) the Marshall-led Supreme Court heard the case of Marbury V Madison. The jist of the case was that Marbury was commissioned to act as a justice of the peace the night before Presidential Administrations changed. The new President (Jefferson) did not deliver the commission) because he felt it was sort of a last-minute effort by Adams to get some appointments in. The court decided that Marbury deserved the commission, but could not make Madison deliver it.

Somehow (I am still not sure what the logic behind this is - Marshall was a big government oligarch at it's ugliest), this set the precedent of Judicial review. That's right - with this case, the SCOTUS decided they should give themselves the power to decide what was and was not Constitutional. Pretty sick - a small group of non-elected officials, with life-long terms, being arguably the most powerful people in the nation. Jefferson said it best - he said that this awful decision was "placing us under the despotism of an oligarchy". I'm sorry if this has been explained, I didn't have time to read ALL the comments.

Oh, and for the smartasses who were talking about Jefferson owning slaves, he was actually trying to ban slavery as early as 1769 in the Virginia House of Burgesses. He owned slaves, but was unable to free them. He spent almost his entire life in debt, and by law, was not allowed to free them because of this fact. Before you try to make a snark, be sure it isn't based on a lie.

Freedom isn't free - but that doesn't mean you owe anyone a damn thing for believing you have it.

And let this day remind some Americans that human rights - like not being tortured, for instance - are inalienable. They don't depend on being born an American citizen, or on where you were when you were ratted out by some illiterate goatherder with a grudge and an eye on a reward.

All humans have rights, regardless of where you were born, who you are. That's your birthright as a child of God or Reason as you prefer.

America has failed to live up to these ideals often. But no nation on earth has gone further to live up to these ideals.

I pray that Americans can take a step back from the insanity of 2001-2008 and continue on the march towards universal rights for all humans.

redoctober65: You have not experienced Jefferson until you have read him in the original Klingon

lol!

You just made my thread!