Yeah. There's a reason Burr shot that son of a biatch.

That guy wasn't even an American Citizen. Check his birth certificate if you don't believe me.

Actually, and hear me out, please, a reasonably-sized amount of managed federal debt is a good thing for the economy, because it gives a low-risk base point for investors and keeps money churning though the system. When Clinton was running surpluses the bond markets were weirded out by the fact that there weren't as many Treasuries being auctioned as expected.

Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

Define "excessive".

GAT_00: Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

Because socialism, of course.

GAT_00: Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

The reverse is true as well, you putz.

The national debt was strangling the nation until your guy got elected. Now, it's all good because you think you're going to get something for free.

theorellior: Actually, and hear me out, please, a reasonably-sized amount of managed federal debt is a good thing for the economy, because it gives a low-risk base point for investors and keeps money churning though the system. When Clinton was running surpluses the bond markets were weirded out by the fact that there weren't as many Treasuries being auctioned as expected.

To be fair, the bond markets had settled into a pattern after 12 years of Republican largesse to the defence sector

Yeah, well he got his ass shot off, didn't he.

JacksBlack: The national debt was strangling the nation until your guy got elected.

Funny how it wasn't important that it was then.

JacksBlack: GAT_00: Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

The reverse is true as well, you putz.

The national debt was strangling the nation until your guy got elected. Now, it's all good because you think you're going to get something for free.

It was ridiculous, but it wasn't strangling our nation. And just think- if we hadn't blown a budget surplus, cut the hell out of taxes and the immediately raised spending in 2001, threw over a trillion dollars into the Iraqi desert, Medicare-D, NCLB, DHS, etc, etc, we'd have more than enough money right now to take care of this recession and not worry about it.

Oh, and TANSTAAFL. Don't be a partisan farkwit.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter"
-Dick Cheney

Hamilton was a putz that both Jefferson and Adams mistrusted with good reason.

I wonder if Hamilton ever heard the word "trillion".

"Ow, I can't believe he SHOT me." - Alexander Hamilton

Of course this was back when the dollar was backed by gold.

Bucky Katt: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter"
-Dick Cheney

Proved in the same way that Fen-phen was shown to be a safe anti-obesity medication with no serious side effects.

Crosshair: Of course this was back when the dollar was backed by gold.

Well that's an interesting post. A gold standard is irrelevant in a default situation, because gold is only worth what it's worth, and there's always the opportunity to incur debts exceeding one's assets.. As an example: an alarming number of people, companies, local, county, state, and national governments exist on negative balance sheets. Net of any collateral repossessions (in default), they are insolvent, if not bankrupt to creditors.

The governments (the guys with the most guns) are capable, after default, of simply stealing more from the people. I'm looking at you, Argentina.

It's got nothing to do with gold.

/Debt is a tool.
//That benefits ONLY the lender.

Funny story about Hamilton during the American revolution:

He was very handsome and quite wealthy, and he was also known in social circles for his promiscuity. So much so that Martha Washington (visiting George in camp one Christmas) noticed a tomcat that would try to screw anything that moved. She named him "Alex," not thinking it fair that such a cat should be named Tom (as in Jefferson), and the name stuck with the soldiers for the rest of the winter until they moved and left the tom behind.

Bucky Katt: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter"
-Dick Cheney

There's a difference between deficits and debt.

GAT_00: Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

Hey! I beg to differ! As a smartass 8th grader, I threw out that Hamilton quote at my social studies teacher the dat after the '84 election and the teacher was complaining about the huge national debt. He pretty much took my argument apart, since he was the teacher and I was distracted by the massive rack on the girl who sat in front of me. I still got an A in that class and she hated me for years. Worth it.

And I know there were and are conservatives ticked off by President Bush's spending. But I do see where the Left is, well, at least bemused by what they see as blatant hypocracy in the Republicans seeming to now be concerned with spending and the debt. Still, I think it's a fight the GOP needs to make. I think the Republicans need to back off the whole quaigmire of social issues and stick to more bread and butter stuff. Yes, our guy spent money like a drunken sailor and we look stupid complaining about the new guy spending like a drunken sailor. So be it. It's better for the GOP to take a stand on fiscal responsability and responsable spending and such, even looking like hypocrites, than to make fights over social and religious issues. I think so, anyway, but I'm not in charge.

"May be?" Our "next" crisis? Cheese and rice, what the fark do these people think is going on right now?

GreenAdder: "May be?" Our "next" crisis? Cheese and rice, what the fark do these people think is going on right now?

The Obama Recession. Y'know, the one that started January 21st.

Occam's Chainsaw: The Obama Recession. Y'know, the one that started January 21st.

Oh. Right. Dude's been President for six months and he's supposed to have everything solved. He should go back to some old clips of his acceptance speech and campaign. "This could take years," he said.

Got Milk?

NewportBarGuy: Since then, the nation has only been free of debt once, in 1834-1835.

You're welcome.

Go fark yourself, Andrew!

His amazingly myopic economic policies and the destruction of the national bank led directly to the boom-and-bust economic cycle that nearly tore this country apart at regular intervals over the course of the 19th century and into the 20th.

It wasn't until after the Great Depression, almost a century later, that we got things under control through regulation and giving power to the Fed.

Thank you, FDR.

Yeah and in last almost 30 years we've had one party who has moved us away from debt and one that has got us much deeper in debt at a huge rate.

Remember when Bill Clinton's tax budget plan in the early 90's were going to "destroy our economy"? Those people were very wrong.

Hamilton was a cock who tried to re-align us with Britain and fark over Adams, not to mention trying to start a war with France and usurp control of a standing army for personal control. too much ambition, and of the wrong kind. Mr. Burr did us a favor.
/i lol'ed at the andrew jackson snipe
//also at citizenship joke. farking hamilton. fark that guy

JacksBlack: The national debt was strangling the nation until your guy got elected. Now, it's all good because you think you're going to get something for free.

we are? what are we getting for free? first I've heard of it.

Legalize it.

Interesting blog post by Glenn Greenwald about the author of that AP article.

This is interesting to me because as I was reading the article I felt a sudden twinge of "something is not quite right here" and I felt I detected a faint wiff of opinion presented as fact - a quick google search later confirmed that perhaps my bullshiat detector is not only functioning, but evidently extremely sensitive.

Most of what the guy says actually is fact, but the way in which he portrays certain facts shows some bias that perhaps does not mesh with reality.

Awwwon Buhhhhh!

/hot!

Last One Left: There's a difference between deficits and debt.

since they did nothing about the debt either then it also must no matter

Your_Huckleberry: But I do see where the Left is, well, at least bemused by what they see as blatant hypocracy in the Republicans seeming to now be concerned with spending and the debt. Still, I think it's a fight the GOP needs to make. I think the Republicans need to back off the whole quaigmire of social issues and stick to more bread and butter stuff. Yes, our guy spent money like a drunken sailor and we look stupid complaining about the new guy spending like a drunken sailor. So be it. It's better for the GOP to take a stand on fiscal responsability and responsable spending and such, even looking like hypocrites, than to make fights over social and religious issues. I think so, anyway, but I'm not in charge.

THIS.

Although that girl with the massive rack seems to still be distracting you from correctly spelling here and there.

(Use that excuse now, farkers - for it will NOT work when you're married. Unless your wife IS the girl with the massive rack, in which case what are you doing here?)

Dwight_Yeast: NewportBarGuy: Since then, the nation has only been free of debt once, in 1834-1835.

You're welcome.

Go fark yourself, Andrew!

His amazingly myopic economic policies and the destruction of the national bank led directly to the boom-and-bust economic cycle that nearly tore this country apart at regular intervals over the course of the 19th century and into the 20th.

It wasn't until after the Great Depression, almost a century later, that we got things under control through regulation and giving power to the Fed.

Thank you, FDR.

You simply must be joking.

Oh wait you're not, you actually think that the best way to solve a problem is to hand complete, total, and unquestioned power over to a small group of unaccountable power brokers who never have to report to anyone and act strictly in their own interest.

//The fed has screwed us over and over, time for some transparency,

///Pick up a copy of "The Forgotten Man" and learn why FDR actually turned a depression into a great depression,

//hint: no other country on Earth refers to it as the "Great" depression.

Don't blame me, I voted for Jefferson.

/Suck it, Federalists!

GAT_00: Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Reagan was ballooning the debt to never before seen levels to buy some new toys for the military. Funny how nobody was saying stuff like that when Dubya was destroying a surplus in two years and then spent trillions on an idiotic war in Iraq for false causes. Then it was good debt. But spend money on Americans, and on man, that's bad debt.

Because defending the nation is a tad more important over all then paying for some idiot to keep screwing up.

One political goal of Reagan and the Bush's was to increase the national debt so much so that there would be no money to pay for programs like Social Security. That way they could say that if even if they wanted to pay for some social program there was just not the money available.


from zfacts.

Eowunyth: Because defending the nation is a tad more important over all then paying for some idiot to keep screwing up.

So you support the socialistic make-work employment of thousands upon thousands of REMF bureaucrats, so long as they wear a uniform. Gotcha.

Occam's Chainsaw: Eowunyth: Because defending the nation is a tad more important over all then paying for some idiot to keep screwing up.

So you support the socialistic make-work employment of thousands upon thousands of REMF bureaucrats, so long as they wear a uniform. Gotcha.

Spending trillions preparing ourselves for the coming conventional war with Soviet Russia is important.....

..oh wait...

I would like to just pay the 37K share i own and opt out of this whole neverending business.

If one were to magically erase the historical impact of Jefferson and Hamilton, Hamilton's would be by far the most missed. In fact, Jefferson's only significant contribution was the Louisiana Purchase.

Gulper Eel: Your_Huckleberry: But I do see where the Left is, well, at least bemused by what they see as blatant hypocracy in the Republicans seeming to now be concerned with spending and the debt. Still, I think it's a fight the GOP needs to make. I think the Republicans need to back off the whole quaigmire of social issues and stick to more bread and butter stuff. Yes, our guy spent money like a drunken sailor and we look stupid complaining about the new guy spending like a drunken sailor. So be it. It's better for the GOP to take a stand on fiscal responsability and responsable spending and such, even looking like hypocrites, than to make fights over social and religious issues. I think so, anyway, but I'm not in charge.

THIS.

Although that girl with the massive rack seems to still be distracting you from correctly spelling here and there.

(Use that excuse now, farkers - for it will NOT work when you're married. Unless your wife IS the girl with the massive rack, in which case what are you doing here?)

Hey, I'm typing with one hand here, mistakes happen.

(Torn bicep tendon, not memories of the girl with the rack)

log_jammin: since they did nothing about the debt either then it also must no matter

One might assume. However, Congress had a part to play, too.

Our current debt is excessive. Debt, in an of itself, is not a bad thing. People who think that it is are morans.

HappyDaddy: If one were to magically erase the historical impact of Jefferson and Hamilton, Hamilton's would be by far the most missed. In fact, Jefferson's only significant contribution was the Louisiana Purchase.

Yes, if you don't think things like writing the Constitution, seperation of church and state, and founding the first secular university are good things. We live in a Jeffersonian Democracy. Jefferson is the man. Hamilton was a putz.

beantowndog
I wonder if Hamilton ever heard the word "trillion".

Thread over...thank you goodnite.

trueaustinite:
Our current debt is excessive. Debt, in an of itself, is not a bad thing. People who think that it is are morans.

For one thing, debt allows a country to get things done when they need to be done, not when the money is in pocket. I can save up for a new washing machine if I don't want to use credit... A government can't "save up" for a program that has to be implemented NOW. And a stitch in time often saves nine, on a national financial level (conservatives often understand this principle when it is convenient for them big business, but decry it when it is used for social welfare applications).

"The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. . . . I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied." - Thomas Jefferson

badhatharry: HappyDaddy: If one were to magically erase the historical impact of Jefferson and Hamilton, Hamilton's would be by far the most missed. In fact, Jefferson's only significant contribution was the Louisiana Purchase.

Yes, if you don't think things like writing the Constitution Declaration Of Independence, seperation of church and state, and founding the first secular university are good things. We live in a Jeffersonian Democracy. Jefferson is the man. Hamilton was a putz.

I'm not trying to ba jerk or anything, I second your thoughts on Jefferson, he was a great man. But James Madison wasn't chopped liver and the Constitution was mostly his baby. Jefferson was still in France.

I still don't think it's overstating things to be amazed by how brillant that group of men of that era were. Not perfect, but possibly the most impressive collection of intellect in our history. And Jefferson was probably a full head smarter than the rest.

"The greatest collection of intelligence to reside in this room since Thomas Jefferson dined in here alone."