The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel, the same price it was in the 90's.

If the precious hedge funds, pension funds and others don't figure this out before the eventual collapse of their idiotic "investments" in contracts they never intended to have delivered, they will wipe out half the people with pensions and investments in this country.

That'll be fun. At least the U.S. economy won't be losing 3-400 billion every year paying for their rapacious farking contracts.

Go back to bonds and blue chips you greedy farking assholes!

thats what I farking need, the bottom of the oil market to fall out

new detroit may wind up looking like old detroit

if oil drops to 1/3 it's current price, shouldn't gas drop to below $1?

IronTom: if oil drops to 1/3 it's current price, shouldn't gas drop to below $1?

Haha, that's cute.

Honestly, as much as I hate paying out the nose for gas, and having to drastically redefine my budget just so I can drive, high gas is a good thing in the long term. It will get us off oil onto alternative energy because gas is cheap, as long as demand is low and supply is high, and the supply is always going to be decreasing.

IronTom: if oil drops to 1/3 it's current price, shouldn't gas drop to below $1?

In all seriousness: no. Tax/gal is a fixed number, as is operating cost of that station, more or less. 199...8? 1999? Was the last time you'll see the national average under $1.

Occam's Chainsaw: Was the last time you'll see the national average under $1.

I recall it got pretty close to that last year, IIRC.

According to this site, the US average price for regular gas got down to $1.59 on Dec. 29 2008. But it's been basically uphill ever since.

That's the last straw!

Protect my investments!

Attack Iran NOW and keep gas prices HIGH!

/end sarcasm
//begin reality

IronTom: I recall it got pretty close to that last year, IIRC.

Looks like the historic low last year was $1.61/gal, give or take, right around New Years. Last time it was that low was December '03.

GAT_00: IronTom: if oil drops to 1/3 it's current price, shouldn't gas drop to below $1?

Haha, that's cute.

Honestly, as much as I hate paying out the nose for gas, and having to drastically redefine my budget just so I can drive, high gas is a good thing in the long term. It will get us off oil onto alternative energy because gas is cheap, as long as demand is low and supply is high, and the supply is always going to be decreasing.

Golly, I hate cheap energy too. Can we be pals?

Didn't we all learn this week that supply has nothing to do with price anymore?

Ahh 1998. $0.77/gal gas. those were good times. Didn't even have to think about the cost of driving. Of course, my penis did most of my thinking back in 1998. That explains where these damn kids came from.

GAT_00: Honestly, as much as I hate paying out the nose for gas, and having to drastically redefine my budget just so I can drive,

You drive too much or drive the wrong car if fluxes in gas prices force you to rethink your budget.

Dear Jerk: Didn't we all learn this week that supply has nothing to do with price anymore?

It doesn't as long as artificial demand is up. Once that bubble has burst, and it will once investors realize they can't prop the price of oil through "positive thinking" forever, then the price will fall as low as supply demanded meets its appropriate price.

Dear Jerk: Didn't we all learn this week that supply has nothing to do with price anymore?

Actually supply and demand has EVERYTHING to do with the price. Just not in the way that you would expect.

I have never bought crude oil. I have never sold crude oil. Oil producers don't care about my demand for gas, because they aren't selling gasoline. You are not the target consumer for oil.

So, here's what happens EVERY recession.

"Investors" start seeing their investments dry up. So, they want to "earn" money in the commodities market. Everyone needs commodities, you can always sell things like oil, wheat, and what not. There will always be a market for it, so it's a sure bet. The increased demand to be the middle man between supplier (of raw materials, like oil) and consumer (the company that turns the raw materials into something the home consumer wants) causes the price of the commodity to go up. This happens regardless of end consumer demand.

The reason oil shot up to the full retard levels was because the standard investments that fund managers put money into were becoming more dangerous. We also saw inflation on food last year for the same exact reason.

The reason why the market dropped so hard and so fast was because fund managers were operating under the assumption that we were heading into a depression. Now that a depression is out of the picture, they feel confident they can find buyers after they sign off on a future. So more people are entering the commodities market.

The reason why they stored the oil is because they assumed, quite incorrectly, that this would be a "V-shaped" recession (It's going to be a L-shaped recession, since the current administration thinks the tried and failed zombie bank method is the best route) and sometime later this year they could unload the stored oil for a hefty profit.

By the way, you're going to repeatedly see these local price bubbles all year. They might not be large, per se. They are going to keep assuming that demand is going to increase a crap ton any day now and bid up the price. Then they will have an over supply and the guys who actually turn commodities in to an end user product will get a better deal.

If this cycle keeps producing price bubbles over and over, pension funds (which provide major financing for leveraged purchases) are going to take a big beating. In a worst case scenario, you can kiss goodbye to the American way for good. We will all just be a little more broke for this point forward.

Have a good nights sleep.

NewportBarGuy: The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel

I think there are two words you misunderstand: "real" and "market".

Probably not related, and definitely anecdotal, but gas prices in Northern California didn't go up at all for the 4th of July. Very strange.

I predict 20/47/800/33/9er dollars a barrel by the end of the year.

Yes, you did catch a 9er in there.

crab66: I predict 20/47/800/33/9er dollars a barrel by the end of the year.

Yes, you did catch a 9er in there.

Twentington!
*ding* That's Numberwang!

crooks. and Obama does nothing.

BalugaJoe: crooks. and Obama does nothing.

It doesn't appear that you're doing anything either.

BalugaJoe: crooks. and Obama does nothing.

Yeah, because what America REALLY needs right now is ANOTHER massive power grab by our top executive.

Perhaps he should appoint another unaccountable Czar that has more power than a cabinet secretary but without all that pesky constitution thingy to get in the way, what with that Senate approval and all.

All oil executives need to prove that they can remain submersed in a drum of boiling sweet crude for 10 minutes before they are allowed to head our precious national resource management.

Price to go down uh then how will they earn back all those storage fee's. Look to get butt raped at the gas pump while the bigs light cigars with the 100 dollar bills.

that's an indicator of shrinking economy, its to stimulate the economy.

lower the fuel prices & people drive more thinking its cheap.
They're not thinking about incidental expenses, like hamburgers, beer, and impulse pickups along the way.

and, if prices at the pump ar'nt lowered soon, americans will abstain from driving, and buying.
$4-$5 gas -in the US- is what caused the current world wide depression.

NewportBarGuy: The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel, the same price it was in the 90's.

If the precious hedge funds, pension funds and others don't figure this out before the eventual collapse of their idiotic "investments" in contracts they never intended to have delivered, they will wipe out half the people with pensions and investments in this country.

That'll be fun. At least the U.S. economy won't be losing 3-400 billion every year paying for their rapacious farking contracts.

Go back to bonds and blue chips you greedy farking assholes!


You have a newsletter, no?

The real price is about $50-65/barrel, not $20.

India and China have been hoarding petroleum products (primarily gasoline and diesel) for the past decade and the price just exploded. The speculators are going to drive it up again.

Came here for the pic of the Ex-Exxon CEO with a gluttonish, distorted pic of his chin.... leaving here disappointed..

Don't worry, the Liberals will fix that. The very last thing this administration wants or needs is cheap gas. That would definitely screw up their agenda.

Anhydrous Dihydrogen Monoxide: Probably not related, and definitely anecdotal, but gas prices in Northern California didn't go up at all for the 4th of July. Very strange.

Ours went down $0.02/gal.

Very odd, but it's just evidence that gas prices have been held artificially high. I expect the excuse this time is "unrest in major oil producing nations" much like every other time.

I just roll with it. There's nothing I can do until I can afford to set up a biodiesel refinery (could always set up an ethanol still...), so I just give my commute expenses a very wiiiiide budget.

The oil and petroleum markets aren't following the old supply v. demand model anymore, and there's nothing we can do about it but pay or find some other source of energy.

If I owned this house I'm in, I'd put up some solar panels and one turbine (we get some major wind out back from the mountain). Grab myself a diesel engine out of an LKQ to build a high efficiency commuter car, and just kinda...keep moving, ya know?

/The only winning move is not to play

BalugaJoe: crooks. and Obama does nothing.

Dude, high gas prices serves their green energy agenda, duhh. This administration NEEDS expensive gas. That's the real agenda behind Cap and Tax, make oil expensive. Who's overseeing wall street? Geitner.

GaryPDX: Don't worry, the Liberals will fix that. The very last thing this administration wants or needs is cheap gas. That would definitely screw up their agenda.

LOL, wow. You're slipping Gary. It's still *recent events* where "conservatives" were in charge of a country with soaring energy prices. Prices actually went down after the "liberals" took charge.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not giving either side any credit for the energy market mess - but from no angle or perspective does your statement make any kind of sense.

I honestly think that the only reason you even live here is so that you can have a nearby source of agitation. Same as with Fark, you aren't happy unless you're shiatting on somebody. I'm not a fan of PDX myself, but I choose to not only avoid it most of the time, I also don't bother biatching about it incessantly.

Believe it or not, there are places in this country that don't force you to live by some "liberal agenda".

Christ, you sound like my uncle who lives in the sticks and is cut-off from almost everything going on in the world. Everything is "liberal" this and "socialist" that. You say these things so often that they have lost all meaning in the real world. I'm a gun-toting, small-government, individual-freedom loving semi-redneck, but in his mind I would be considered a "liberal" because I am also a pro-choice, anti-isolationist atheist.

/Don't know why I'm bothering to respond to Gary
//Nothing but a thread-shiatting troll
///But hell, I've been drinking

GaryPDX: BalugaJoe: crooks. and Obama does nothing.

Dude, high gas prices serves their green energy agenda, duhh. This administration NEEDS expensive gas. That's the real agenda behind Cap and Tax, make oil expensive. Who's overseeing wall street? Geitner.

GE and Goldman Sachs are going to be the biggest beneficiaries of the cap and trade scam.

Kuroshin: LOL, wow. You're slipping Gary. It's still *recent events* where "conservatives" were in charge of a country with soaring energy prices. Prices actually went down after the "liberals" took charge.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not giving either side any credit for the energy market mess - but from no angle or perspective does your statement make any kind of sense.

Just think about it. How does it serve democrats to have cheap gas? It doesn't, nobody will buy their expensive "alternatives" to save global warming when they can buy gas at half the price. I know, I use biodiesel when it's affordable. They're still speculating on oil, who is running the show? Geitner, the Sec of Treasury, Obama's cabinet member. Cap and Tax is also a trading system.

The reasons are different, but the game is still afoot. The only way to move off fossil fuels is to make them so expensive so people will buy into their green agenda. And the funny part is, oil isn't going away until it actually runs out. It's the same game..greed. Just different players.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: If this cycle keeps producing price bubbles over and over, pension funds (which provide major financing for leveraged purchases) are going to take a big beating. In a worst case scenario, you can kiss goodbye to the American way for good. We will all just be a little more broke for this point forward.

Except if the pension funds are doing this, they gain a load of money on the way up on the bubble and lose the same amount on the way down. Speculative bubbles tend to only redistribute income at most, and only then if a different group of investors are left holding the assets at the point the market bursts, compared to who made all the profits when the market was going upwards. Exceptions are bubbles in markets with big transaction costs (like housing) where the people that are paid those costs can make out like bandits without being exposed to losses later.

xria: Except if the pension funds are doing this,

The pension funds are only indirectly doing this. They are providing the capital for hedge funds to do this. Comptrollers all over America aren't involved in the market, they have merely lent the pension funds assets to some fund so that it can be managed for them.

As with all loans, there's always a risk of capital loss. Each time a bubble bursts that is pension fund backed, that pension fund loses money. Most likely, they are going to break even over the whole year. It is possible that a large fund could lose it's shirt.

I don't like this ride.

07/02/2008 $4.80
07/14/2008 $4.74
07/24/2008 $4.56
08/02/2008 $4.40
08/13/2008 $4.26
08/24/2008 $4.12
09/04/2008 $4.06
09/16/2008 $3.90
09/25/2008 $3.86
10/08/2008 $3.70
10/15/2008 $3.60
10/28/2008 $3.24
11/06/2008 $2.80
11/13/2008 $2.66
11/23/2008 $2.40
12/06/2008 $2.00
12/16/2008 $1.92
12/31/2008 $2.06
01/08/2009 $2.18
01/21/2009 $2.36
01/31/2009 $2.30
02/12/2009 $2.50
02/24/2009 $2.50
03/07/2009 $2.40
03/17/2009 $2.40
03/27/2009 $2.50
04/04/2009 $2.64
04/11/2009 $2.60
04/21/2009 $2.64
04/29/2009 $2.60
05/05/2009 $2.66
05/11/2009 $2.68
05/20/2009 $2.88
05/30/2009 $3.02
06/07/2009 $3.18
06/15/2009 $3.28
06/22/2009 $3.26
07/04/2009 $3.20

/prices for premium, for midgrade, subtract 10 cents, for regular, subtract 20 cents.

NewportBarGuy: The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel, the same price it was in the 90's.

If the precious hedge funds, pension funds and others don't figure this out before the eventual collapse of their idiotic "investments" in contracts they never intended to have delivered, they will wipe out half the people with pensions and investments in this country.

That'll be fun. At least the U.S. economy won't be losing 3-400 billion every year paying for their rapacious farking contracts.

Go back to bonds and blue chips you greedy farking assholes!

While I am not a fan of how financial markets can be rigged, the claim that oil prices should be the same as two or three decades ago is not really correct in that it fails to take into account Hotelling scarcity prices.

GaryPDX: Don't worry, the Liberals will fix that. The very last thing this administration wants or needs is cheap gas. That would definitely screw up their agenda.

I must have missed it - how great a job did the Bushies do on keeping gasoline retail prices low? In case you'd like to check, the price on Jan 20, 2001 was $1.46/gallon.

NewportBarGuy: The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel, the same price it was in the 90's.

If the precious hedge funds, pension funds and others don't figure this out before the eventual collapse of their idiotic "investments" in contracts they never intended to have delivered, they will wipe out half the people with pensions and investments in this country.

That'll be fun. At least the U.S. economy won't be losing 3-400 billion every year paying for their rapacious farking contracts.

Go back to bonds and blue chips you greedy farking assholes!

^ A naively simplistic analysis

Even if our wells weren't watering out, which they are...

Even if we were discovering more oil than ever before, which we aren't...

There is a growing need to price in the effects of CO2 pollution, which will necessarily raise the price of fuel

Oil will never be cheap again

NewportBarGuy: The real market price for oil is $20 per barrel, the same price it was in the 90's.

If the precious hedge funds, pension funds and others don't figure this out before the eventual collapse of their idiotic "investments" in contracts they never intended to have delivered, they will wipe out half the people with pensions and investments in this country.

That'll be fun. At least the U.S. economy won't be losing 3-400 billion every year paying for their rapacious farking contracts.

Go back to bonds and blue chips you greedy farking assholes!

This just about covers it.

This is bad news for Chavez and Putin and I am a happy about it.

xria: Except if the pension funds are doing this, they gain a load of money on the way up on the bubble and lose the same amount on the way down.

That's assuming when large investment houses solicit the investment of the pensioners via a fund, that they're doing in a timely fashion before the bubble has already inflated to breaking point.

Large institutional funds who are using "little people" money tend to somehow always arrive late to the party and even later leaving the party.

Insiders move a lot quicker than pension fund managers and the fact that many insider "experts" also end up rating investments for these pension fund managers ("Yo brah, this is triple-A, check out my returns!") seems to correlate with their ability to lead almost any stock that pension fund managers will buy.

I think it's unlikely that pension fund managers arrive to the party at the same time as those investors who are associated with the security ratings groups.

It's kinda scammy.

bronyaur1: I must have missed it - how great a job did the Bushies do on keeping gasoline retail prices low? In case you'd like to check, the price on Jan 20, 2001 was $1.46/gallon.

And on January 23, 2006, it was $2.33/gal.

What's your point?

GaryPDX: BalugaJoe: crooks. and Obama does nothing.

Dude, high gas prices serves their green energy agenda, duhh. This administration NEEDS expensive gas. That's the real agenda behind Cap and Tax, make oil expensive. Who's overseeing wall street? Geitner.

Personally, I'm trying to burn through as much as I can.

The sooner we're out, the sooner it's no longer a problem.

Mister Peejay: Personally, I'm trying to burn through as much as I can.

The sooner we're out, the sooner it's no longer a problem.

Whenever I feel like I'm an alcoholic, I just drink all of the beer in my house. That way, I'll be out, right?

But then I'm still an alcoholic and nothing's changed.

AtticusFinchEsq: Mister Peejay: Personally, I'm trying to burn through as much as I can.

The sooner we're out, the sooner it's no longer a problem.

Whenever I feel like I'm an alcoholic, I just drink all of the beer in my house. That way, I'll be out, right?

But then I'm still an alcoholic and nothing's changed.

oil doesnt grow in fields.