These new subpoenas will surely keep our doucherag legislature focused on passing a budget. Oh, wait...they decided to close shop and take a breather over the long weekend after their excruciating endeavor of getting absolutely nothing done this session. Fark 'em. Go arrest every last one of them, Corbett...if you can find them, that is.

Uncle Milty would be so proud.

If only there were a laughing Quaker picture I could post to signal the hilarity of the situation in Pennsylvania.

Cagey B: If only there were a laughing Quaker picture I could post to signal the hilarity of the situation in Pennsylvania.

Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

Good. They should all get served. Crooks and liars - all of them.

sounds like a subpoena happy defense attorney to me. attention whoring most likely. high profile case. let's make some news boys.

Hobodeluxe: sounds like a subpoena happy defense attorney to me. attention whoring most likely. high profile case. let's make some news boys.

Pretty close, actually. Our AG is an opportunistic twat-waffle and, unfortunately, a strong candidate to be the next governor. He's treaded pretty lightly around the Republicans while at the same time swinging a mighty big axe at the Ds on this shiat. Not that they don't deserve it. They do. Every damn last one of them. But it's become glaringly obvious over the last few years this controversy has been around that he's see no evil/hear no evil with the Republican party out here. At least, I'm guessing he will be until they decide on a few sacrificial lambs to cart out in front of the cameras at a politically convenient time...I'm guessing right around the time when folks start gearing up for their gubernatorial runs. Our state government sucks balls. There is no right answer with the crew of turd-logs we have out here.

Doctor Funkenstein: Our AG is an opportunistic twat-waffle and, unfortunately, a strong candidate to be the next governor.

ask nifong how all that worked out for him.....

"At least 39 subpoenas were served at the Capitol offices of lawmakers of both parties."

"...were subpoenaed by former House Democratic Whip Mike Veon..."

"Stephen Miskin, a spokesman for House Republicans, said lawmakers and staff received subpoenas."

"Corbett has said he is investigating Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate and that another round of charges will be filed."

srsly u guys. u guys. srsly.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

only as defense witnesses for one of the democratic lawmakers who were caught.

they've only indicted House democrats for crimes. they had a massive fraud going on--sending legisaltive staffers to work on campaigns, ostensibly using their time off and comp time (lots of fake comp time which was earned at the order of one of the guys in charge). then this same people got bonuses using public dollars, not campaign money. many bonuses were in the thousands of dollars.

then they tried to cover it up. that was just as bad, and it's why lots of their IT guys got nabbed, for destroying computer evidence.

Corruption in state politics? In Pennsylvania, no less?!

Pull the other one, pal!

/actually, this is one reason that despite its being very representative of the nation as a whole and being for a long time one of the most populous states, there has only been one president from PA. Even in Andrew Jackson's time it was well known as the state with the most corrupt "machine politics" government.

jaerik: srsly u guys. u guys. srsly.

again, as witnesses. the indicted at all House Ds.

srsly. here's the original article
Link (new window)

click on the harrisburg grand jury presentment lower right. It's a good read that will blow your mind

Before Weaver95 gets here and pulls his usual thread-shiat, I'm going to point out that PA's governor has never been a member of the state legislature and that his relationship with them (both R's and D's alike) is best described as "acrimonious."

Fraud is misdeeds in PA? Why I never thought I would see the day.

After they are done with the house and senate, they can go beat Rendell with a stick.

Dwight_Yeast: I'm going to point out that PA's governor has never been a member of the state legislature and that his relationship with them (both R's and D's alike) is best described as "acrimonious."

not all. i've seen him tongue-kissing bill deweese

utter_bastard: After they are done with the house and senate, they can go beat Rendell with a stick.

Um, why?

And I'll give you a hint "because you don't like him" is not a correct answer.

"It's our understanding that over 100 members and staff received subpoenas," said Brett Marcy, a spokesman for House Democrats. "It is also our understanding that both Democrats and Republicans were served."
================================================

So, subby lied.

/!!!!

Dwight_Yeast: Before Weaver95 gets here and pulls his usual thread-shiat, I'm going to point out that PA's governor has never been a member of the state legislature and that his relationship with them (both R's and D's alike) is best described as "acrimonious."

I sense your fear....

Actually, I was just blogging about this the other day.

jake3988 :"It's our understanding that over 100 members and staff received subpoenas," said Brett Marcy, a spokesman for House Democrats. "It is also our understanding that both Democrats and Republicans were served."
================================================

So, subby lied.

/!!!!

Your reading comprehension and/or understanding of the word "subpoena" is way off.

While I think that it's a great thing that corrupt state politicians are being investigated and that some of them will actually go to jail, if you're a PA resident don't get your hopes up that this will make state politics less corrupt.

I just saw my own state senator, Vince Fumo, sent to jail (finally!) by the Feds, only to be replaced by his own hand-picked successor.

WE don't just need criminal investigations in Pa, we need real reform candidates in every county at the state level.

jake3988: So, subby lied.

no, subby didn't. the fraud and the indicted perpetrators are all democrats. no republicans have yet been charged. the subpoenas are from an indicted democrat who's calling them as part of his defense.

/subby

He did have something to do with the MOVE incident in the 80's in Philly when he was DA there.

Dwight_Yeast: While I think that it's a great thing that corrupt state politicians are being investigated and that some of them will actually go to jail, if you're a PA resident don't get your hopes up that this will make state politics less corrupt.

I just saw my own state senator, Vince Fumo, sent to jail (finally!) by the Feds, only to be replaced by his own hand-picked successor.

WE don't just need criminal investigations in Pa, we need real reform candidates in every county at the state level.

Or you could stop electing crooks?

Dwight_Yeast: WE don't just need criminal investigations in Pa, we need real reform candidates in every county at the state level.

you got 50 of them elected in the great incumbent massacre of 2006. the reformers are there

thing is, that doesn't happen in philly because the Ds have a stranglehold on the city. some districts it's 95 percent D 5 percent R. a republican can only win in a couple of seats gerrymandered for them in the northwest. other than that, the Democratic party controls every legislative seat in the city. and it's not going to reform unless it wants to.

I'm SHOCKED! that the political party that pushes for more government control is so often involved in corruption.

Weaver95: I sense your fear....

Actually, I was just blogging about this the other day.

And your point? Neither your blog, nor the P-G timeline nor the articles it links to draw any connection between Rendell and the ongoing legislature salary bullshiat.

In fact, here's what the P-G has to say about the subject:
State House bonuses stun Rendell

Dwight_Yeast:
And your point? Neither your blog, nor the P-G timeline nor the articles it links to draw any connection between Rendell and the ongoing legislature salary bullshiat.

...yet....

albo: you got 50 of them elected in the great incumbent massacre of 2006. the reformers are there

thing is, that doesn't happen in philly because the Ds have a stranglehold on the city. some districts it's 95 percent D 5 percent R. a republican can only win in a couple of seats gerrymandered for them in the northwest. other than that, the Democratic party controls every legislative seat in the city. and it's not going to reform unless it wants to.

If the reformers are there, why aren't they, you know, trying to reform?

And yes, I understand that Philly's a Democratic city, but that doesn't preclude the election of Democratic reform candidates (hell, that's what Rendell was when we elected him mayor). The problem is that neither side will run anyone who's not connected deeply to state politics.

Look at the election to replace Fumo: you had Fumo's hand-picked successor on one side and a Union guy on the other. All other candidates were forced out of the race.

Dwight_Yeast: And your point? Neither your blog, nor the P-G timeline nor the articles it links to draw any connection between Rendell and the ongoing legislature salary bullshiat.

you're right, rendell is not involved in this, nor will he be touched by the AG for any scandal before he's out of office. corbett is going to be the next governor, so he doesn't want to touch that at all.

Rendell has wielded his power and influence through the financial process of handing out checks to those projects he favors, and doing lots of that in back of the house deals that the public doesn't know about. that's about the only real sleazy thing you can pin on him.

albo: that's about the only real sleazy thing you can pin on him.

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm merely suggesting we wait and see where this goes. we might get Ed caught up in this yet.

Weaver95: Dwight_Yeast:
And your point? Neither your blog, nor the P-G timeline nor the articles it links to draw any connection between Rendell and the ongoing legislature salary bullshiat.

...yet....

And there's been no connection between Waever95 and the racoon/human porn ring operating near Harrisburg...

...yet...

See, anyone can play that game.

Here's another: There's been no direct connection between Pope Leo XII, The Society of the Rosy Cross and the Assassination of President Jack Kennedy...

...yet...

Dwight_Yeast: Look at the election to replace Fumo: you had Fumo's hand-picked successor on one side and a Union guy on the other. All other candidates were forced out of the race.

fumo's reach even included the state House. he had several Ds who owed their seats to him, and he'd loan them to the House Rs when they were in the minority in order to screw the majority Ds out of some bill or something just because Fumo hated the House Ds.

the reason the budget is so f-ed up this year is in some part due to Fumo not being involved in the negotiations. corrupt scumweasel or not, the guy knew how to get things done.

albo: the reason the budget is so f-ed up this year is in some part due to Fumo not being involved in the negotiations. corrupt scumweasel or not, the guy knew how to get things done.

well...don't underestimate Rendell's asshattery and general ability to fark up negotiations. That's played a big part in why this state hasn't had a budget come in on time in SEVEN CONSECUTIVE YEARS now.

albo: Rendell has wielded his power and influence through the financial process of handing out checks to those projects he favors, and doing lots of that in back of the house deals that the public doesn't know about. that's about the only real sleazy thing you can pin on him.

In other words playing perfectly legal political games. I don't doubt that; Rendell is a politician, not a saint. The thing that I like about him is that he plays these games not for his own personal benefit but for the good of the people he's representing at the time.

Weaver95: well...don't underestimate Rendell's asshattery and general ability to fark up negotiations. That's played a big part in why this state hasn't had a budget come in on time in SEVEN CONSECUTIVE YEARS now.

I'll ask again: Weaver, do you have any substantial evidence that Rendell has been intentionally farking up the budget year after year, or are you just going by what the voices in your head tell you?

mizchief: I'm SHOCKED! that the political party that pushes for more government control is so often involved in corruption.

Oh ya Both of them suck ass.
We need a New Party.
I propose we call it the BEER Party, We will hold the National Convention in Milwaukee every 4 years.

Dwight_Yeast: The thing that I like about him is that he plays these games not for his own personal benefit but for the good of the people he's representing at the time.

yeah. that's being a tad bit naive.

/hot like a passed out college cheerleader

Dwight_Yeast: Weaver95: well...don't underestimate Rendell's asshattery and general ability to fark up negotiations. That's played a big part in why this state hasn't had a budget come in on time in SEVEN CONSECUTIVE YEARS now.

I'll ask again: Weaver, do you have any substantial evidence that Rendell has been intentionally farking up the budget year after year, or are you just going by what the voices in your head tell you?

I suppose the answer to that question depends on if you believe stupidity, arrogance and incompetency are intentional or if they 'just happen'.

For the record, I've never said Fast Eddie was farking up on purpose, I merely report on his inability to do his job for the people of this state. I don't speculate on the reasons for that, just report what I see.

walnuts55: mizchief: I'm SHOCKED! that the political party that pushes for more government control is so often involved in corruption.

Oh ya Both of them suck ass.
We need a New Party.
I propose we call it the BEER Party, We will hold the National Convention in Milwaukee every 4 years.

I agree. How about the "Better Ethics and Economics Reform Party

I currently support the Libertarian party since I agree with them on my most important issues, however they seem to lack the key balance between true Liberty and practicality.

Dwight_Yeast: The thing that I like about him is that he plays these games not for his own personal benefit but for the good of the people he's representing at the time.

albo: Dwight_Yeast: The thing that I like about him is that he plays these games not for his own personal benefit but for the good of the people he's representing at the time.

yeah. that's being a tad bit naive.

Not really.

Can either of you (albo or Weaver) give be an example where Rendell has pushed a particular policy or piece of legislation solely for personal gain?

I'll be here, waiting, with my lemonade and ice cream sammich.

Please keep calm. I'm sure this is just part of a vast right wing conspiracy and that some how Fox News in manipulating the information you are seeing.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

Dwight_Yeast: Can either of you (albo or Weaver) give be an example where Rendell has pushed a particular policy or piece of legislation solely for personal gain?

his career is solely for personal gain. mayor of philly, DNC chair, PA governor, friend of the Clintons.

he's not albert schweitzer. he's in politics. and his career is designed to make him a Democratic party power broker on the national level. i'm sure he won't be a presidential candidate, but he aspires to everything but.

albo: his career is solely for personal gain. mayor of philly, DNC chair, PA governor, friend of the Clintons.

You forget that he spent twenty years in the Philly DA's office before he got involved in politics on any major scale.

albo: he's not albert schweitzer. he's in politics. and his career is designed to make him a Democratic party power broker on the national level. i'm sure he won't be a presidential candidate, but he aspires to everything but.

I already pointed that out.

But the point I made, the point you claimed was incorrect, is that he does things which are in the best interest of the people he's representing, first and foremnost. If he gains political capital but doing the right thing, if his friends make money, that's ancillary.

Contrast him to most state politician in PA, who are only in it to line their own pockets. They "take care" of their constituants only to the point that it keeps them in office and have no moral qualms about robbing the public blind to make a buck.

Do you see the fundamental difference?

But it isn't just Obama and Richardson that Rubin has ties to. According to federal law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, federal officials are also looking into CDR's political and financial ties to Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, as well as to Democrat state and local officials in Illinois, California, Florida, and Pennsylvania.

Rendell placed Rubin on a political patronage commission in Pennsylvania, and Rubin was also given a seat on a Los Angeles City commission back in 2002, both seemingly as the result of political contributions to political action committees. Rubin has also been a financial supporter of Rev. Al Sharpton.

link (new window

Seems like Rendell his a fan of political patronage for donors.

Politicians should be able to hold office for only one year. And then they should be liquefied and fed to the incoming official intravenously.

Here's (new window) another one Dwight_Yeast

Rendell isn't as clean as you are hoping. Then again you'll probably just attack the sources of the articles.

This is all Bush's fault, right?

albo: Dwight_Yeast: Can either of you (albo or Weaver) give be an example where Rendell has pushed a particular policy or piece of legislation solely for personal gain?

his career is solely for personal gain. mayor of philly, DNC chair, PA governor, friend of the Clintons.

he's not albert schweitzer. he's in politics. and his career is designed to make him a Democratic party power broker on the national level. i'm sure he won't be a presidential candidate, but he aspires to everything but.

Yep, there ya go.

MyRandomName: Here's (new window) another one Dwight_Yeast

Rendell isn't as clean as you are hoping. Then again you'll probably just attack the sources of the articles.

Dwight_Yeast is a True Believer. We can pile the evidence sky high and he STILL won't admit Rendell is one of the worst things to happen to this state in decades.

Tom Ridge (for all his flaws) was a much better man for the job.

Acid_Casualty: Politicians should be able to hold office for only one year. And then they should be liquefied and fed to the incoming official intravenously.

Careful! That's kinda how Mad Cow disease gets spread...

Acid_Casualty: Politicians should be able to hold office for only one year. And then they should be liquefied and fed to the incoming official intravenously.

Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed regularly and for the same reason.

/in case you haven't heard

All politicians are identical, specifically when they're swinging at the end of a rope.

Tom Ridge got things done.

Fumo was guilty as hell for years, as was his predecessor. Even people who know Fumo personally, and I know several, knew he was corrupt. Rendell isn't much better, but his wife is a federal judge, which may have something to do with the fact that he gets away with a lot more than your average politician.

PA politics is corrupt, and dominated by the D's. Fumo was probably the most powerful state senator, and the most corrupt because he sold his influence.

PA politics has brought us Dan Flood, Murtha, Kanjorski (who could potentially be as powerful as Fumo were he to take that path but will have to settle for the whole country), Rendell (who hides it well), and a bevy of others.

It's part of the culture in PA. Tom Ridge, Thornburgh, and Casey Sr. were very good governors, but the problem was always the house, even with people like Fumo masking it in order to get things done.

I expect many more incursions by law enforcement on multiple levels. However, as we know, real reform won't come until the real dirt comes out in the papers about what politicians really do with your tax dollars. Fumo at least gave something back to Philly.

MyRandomName: Rendell isn't as clean as you are hoping. Then again you'll probably just attack the sources of the articles.

The op-ed page oft he WSJ (AKA, the Mother of All WHARRLGARRBL) and the American Spectator? I don't even need to say more!

But ignoring what the sources, there's nothing resembling factual content in either article. But don't let that stop you from tarring and feathering someone you don't like.

Robert1966: Even in Andrew Jackson's time it was well known as the state with the most corrupt "machine politics" government.

only cause chicago and nola were yet to come :D

Weaver95: he's not albert schweitzer. he's in politics. and his career is designed to make him a Democratic party power broker on the national level. i'm sure he won't be a presidential candidate, but he aspires to everything but.

Yep, there ya go.

So Rendell's flaw is that he's ambitious? So is every politician.


Weaver95: Dwight_Yeast is a True Believer. We can pile the evidence sky high and he STILL won't admit Rendell is one of the worst things to happen to this state in decades.

Tom Ridge (for all his flaws) was a much better man for the job.

If you come up with evidence, I'll happily listen, but all anyone ever offers is hearsay and conjecture and the fact that you guys in the sticks don't like him cause he's not a good old boy.

It's not that I have any burning love for the man; it's just that I can't stand to see someone attacked again and again when he's not done anything wrong and his biggest crime is that his attackers don't like him.

Is that hard to understand?

Hot like having Hot Rats shoved up your nose!

" Do You smell that? That Smell, That sharty smell? That's the smell of Fear!"

Ashelth: Dwight_Yeast: While I think that it's a great thing that corrupt state politicians are being investigated and that some of them will actually go to jail, if you're a PA resident don't get your hopes up that this will make state politics less corrupt.

I just saw my own state senator, Vince Fumo, sent to jail (finally!) by the Feds, only to be replaced by his own hand-picked successor.

WE don't just need criminal investigations in Pa, we need real reform candidates in every county at the state level.

Or you could stop electing crooks DEMOCRATS?


-- FTFY

Yay Pennsylvania! Makes me proud...

/biting sarcasm...

Hobodeluxe: sounds like a subpoena happy defense attorney to me. attention whoring most likely. high profile case. let's make some news boys.

Possible, but if any of them are guilty, hang'em out to dry regardless of the party affiliation letter.

Wow ! I can't believe that I actually AGREE with Weaver95 !

/ Just WOW !!!

I hope We get some R. Budd Dwyer action out of this.

Find the guys who are corrupt, bring them up on charges. Regardless of party affiliation. God knows that New Jersey could use some house cleaning as well.

Subby neglected to also call out that the article is from the Richard Scaife-owned Tribune Review, not the Democratic house organ Post-Gazette as indicated.

Here is the P-G's reporting on same.

jake3988: "It's our understanding that over 100 members and staff received subpoenas," said Brett Marcy, a spokesman for House Democrats. "It is also our understanding that both Democrats and Republicans were served."
================================================

So, subby lied.

/!!!!

You, uh, realize that suphoenas go out to witnesses as well as people actually under investigation, right? The people actually being investigated are, iirc, all members of the Democratic party in the state. Which makes sense, as it's campaign-related finance fraud and campaign finance is typically party-restricted.

So the subphoenas go out to everyone remotely useful as a witness regardless of party, but the fraud ring being investigated is Democrat-specific.

Small enough words for you or should I go look for the legos?

Aldo the Wonder Dog: Subby neglected to also call out that the article is from the Richard Scaife-owned Tribune Review, not the Democratic house organ Post-Gazette as indicated.

Here is the P-G's reporting on same.

Yep..seriously, do the mods even check the link before they greenlight?

Wait, this cannot be right, the media is only supposed to report about republican misdeeds. Really, what would Obama think of all this Democrat bashing. He won the elections so now we can only attack republicans in the media. Pointing out how democrats break the law might be considered hate speech.

Don't want to see a community review board for fark. Step lightly.

Aldo the Wonder Dog: Subby neglected to also call out that the article is from the Richard Scaife-owned Tribune Review, not the Democratic house organ Post-Gazette as indicated.

subbys can make mistakes in attribution, especially since both major Pittsburgh papers don't have a source GIF.

But the grand jury's 75-page presentment indicting a dozen House Democrats for a massive fraud against the taxpayers is an actual fact, not a mistake, regardless of whose house organ is reporting it.
(see one of my posts above for the link)

I'm shocked that the newspaper actually mentioned the party affiliation in the first paragraph. Normally they only mention it for republicans. For democrats, if it's mentioned at all it is in the last paragraph.

Typical report for republicans:

Republican senator John Smith from [city], [state], rumored to have close ties to [unsavory political or criminal organization] was charged with [crime]. Conviction could mean up to ten years in prison.

Typical report for democrats:

Popular senator John Smith, well known for his tireless work with [sick children organization] has been named in connection to [crime]. The senator was asked during a [children charity] fundraiser about the report, where he denied any involvement.

OgreMagi: I'm shocked that the newspaper actually mentioned the party affiliation in the first paragraph. Normally they only mention it for republicans. For democrats, if it's mentioned at all it is in the last paragraph.

Typical report for republicans:

Republican senator John Smith from [city], [state], rumored to have close ties to [unsavory political or criminal organization] was charged with [crime]. Conviction could mean up to ten years in prison.

Typical report for democrats:

Popular senator John Smith, well known for his tireless work with [sick children organization] has been named in connection to [crime]. The senator was asked during a [children charity] fundraiser about the report, where he denied any involvement.

[citation needed]

Bestbank Tiger: OgreMagi: I'm shocked that the newspaper actually mentioned the party affiliation in the first paragraph. Normally they only mention it for republicans. For democrats, if it's mentioned at all it is in the last paragraph.

Typical report for republicans:

Republican senator John Smith from [city], [state], rumored to have close ties to [unsavory political or criminal organization] was charged with [crime]. Conviction could mean up to ten years in prison.

Typical report for democrats:

Popular senator John Smith, well known for his tireless work with [sick children organization] has been named in connection to [crime]. The senator was asked during a [children charity] fundraiser about the report, where he denied any involvement.

[citation needed]

New York Times.

OgreMagi: New York Times.

Can't be.

A Times headline would read

Beloved Democratic Senator Indicted
Women, Minorities Hardest Hit

And it would be on page C33, underneath the rugby scores.

GanjSmokr: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

Good. They should all get served. Crooks and liars - all of them.

THIS, THIS, a million times this.

Ignoring subby's bias for the moment, I don't care which branch you're in. A little moral homelife ambiguity I can maybe tolerate, but come even close to politically suspicious behavior, fraud, etc. just do us a favor and GTFO.

My friend has a theory that if they're not doing a stand-up job just vote the incumbents out of office. Every election, every one of them. Then they might start getting the idea.

Gulper Eel: OgreMagi: New York Times.

Can't be.

A Times headline would read

Beloved Democratic Senator Indicted
Women, Minorities Hardest Hit

And it would be on page C33, underneath the rugby scores.

Nobody reads the rugby scores ...

Oh, I see what you did there.

Zombalupagus: GanjSmokr: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

Good. They should all get served. Crooks and liars - all of them.

THIS, THIS, a million times this.

Ignoring subby's bias for the moment, I don't care which branch you're in. A little moral homelife ambiguity I can maybe tolerate, but come even close to politically suspicious behavior, fraud, etc. just do us a favor and GTFO.

My friend has a theory that if they're not doing a stand-up job just vote the incumbents out of office. Every election, every one of them. Then they might start getting the idea.

I normally do that no matter who it is. I don't want the bastards to get too comfortable.

Zombalupagus: GanjSmokr: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Article says both Democrats AND Republicans got served.

Good. They should all get served. Crooks and liars - all of them.

THIS, THIS, a million times this.

Ignoring subby's bias for the moment, I don't care which branch you're in. A little moral homelife ambiguity I can maybe tolerate, but come even close to politically suspicious behavior, fraud, etc. just do us a favor and GTFO.

My friend has a theory that if they're not doing a stand-up job just vote the incumbents out of office. Every election, every one of them. Then they might start getting the idea.

That would require the roughly 70% of the voting population that votes straight ticket to stop and actually think before pulling the lever.

Why is the truth associated with political bias?

Only on Fark!

mizchief: walnuts55: mizchief: I'm SHOCKED! that the political party that pushes for more government control is so often involved in corruption.

Oh ya Both of them suck ass.
We need a New Party.
I propose we call it the BEER Party, We will hold the National Convention in Milwaukee every 4 years.

I agree. How about the "Better Ethics and Economics Reform Party

I currently support the Libertarian party since I agree with them on my most important issues, however they seem to lack the key balance between true Liberty and practicality.

I,m In.
How do we start!

Aw crap, they're dems.

Nothing to see here, please move along

OgreMagi: Sounds like the Tea Party. Of course, you probably wouldn't be interested since its members are nothing but racist rednecks.

Here's a typical racist redneck teabagger:

He's not as racist redneck; he's just insane.