You can't go home again.

SNOPES Article

Link (Snopes Link)

Just for the hell of it, I've been arguing w/some Birthers over on the YouTube comments. My God, there's some grade-A stupid on there. They're worse than the Truthers.

I know arguing w/them is pointless, but it's an amusing time-waster.

Kenyan pleas?

Greening something like this is like getting all set with the finest tackle to go fish in a tank at the pet store.

Seriously, this is entertainment ?

Mordant: Seriously, this is entertainment ?

Is this supposed to be anything else?

/I know. I know. Serious business, this internets.

I think we should all have "titles" that rhyme with our first names like that, St_Francis_P.

Con_Authority: SNOPES Article

Link (Snopes Link)

I would think the dismissals of the court cases as "unreasonable" and "frivolous" would have some merit with these assclowns, but I guess not.

/continue swimming naked
//in your own raw sewage

Con_Authority: SNOPES Article

Link (Snopes Link)

Came for birth of Muslim to white woman certificate. Leaving satisfied.

I guess Obama will just pass on ze lions und ze tigers (only in Kenya) (new window)

Wemwega Kikuyu Aloha?

This again?

That is too bad, I can understand why they are sad.
Er, furious.

+1, trollmitter

bravo

brigid_fitch: Birthers over on the YouTube comments

i think you have discovered the 4 sided time cube of stupid.

globalwarmingpraiser: Came for birth of Muslim to white woman certificate. Leaving satisfied.

It's a fake.

I can tell, because you can't measure the length of a baby three days after birth, because they're still too curled up.

Best headline of the week!

OH i AM LOL over here. Thanks for the laugh St_Francis_P

St_Francis_P: Hey, his birthday is next Saturday!

heap: brigid_fitch: Birthers over on the YouTube comments

i think you have discovered the 4 sided time cube of stupid.

Youtube comments make timecube seem absolutely brilliant.

From the article -

"If Obama decides to grace Nigeria with his presence, I will stone him," Nigerian Nobel prize-winning writer Wole Soyinka was quoted by Nigerian newspapers as saying.

Niger please.

opiumpoopy: globalwarmingpraiser: Came for birth of Muslim to white woman certificate. Leaving satisfied.

It's a fake.

I can tell, because you can't measure the length of a baby three days after birth, because they're still too curled up.

Not only that, but they're still growing, so you're gonna get inaccurate results.

His grandma said he was born in Kenya and mysteriously died less than a week before the election?

DUN DUN DUN

This is a question I've been bothered by for for about 7 years now. If a person from Nigeria is a Nigerian, what's a person from Niger called?

this is all i thought about when i saw kenyans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

The Birthers are my favorite conspiracy theory.

Unlike the Truthers, they aren't pissing all over the remembrance of a sad national tragedy.

Unlike the vaccine-autism people, they aren't causing actual harm to other people.

The Birthers are just endlessly entertaining, and the only damage the do is to their own credibility, and that of anyone on the right who associates with them and their views. I hope that they keep at this fixation for all of Obama's two terms. Rather than, you know, coming up with effective electoral strategies to regain political power.

I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to visit that place either.

saymayne: img517.imageshack.us

I wouldn't put it past Hollywood to start making films out of internet memes.

Doc Daneeka: The damage the do is to their own credibility.

God, I love watching the lefties dance!

So he's not even going to stop and visit his brother in his dirt floor shack.

Richard Pye: saymayne: img517.imageshack.us

I wouldn't put it past Hollywood to start making films out of internet memes.

Yeah... they could start with a movie based on that AOL "You've got mail" guy.

/wait a minute...

Deagan Herumor: This is a question I've been bothered by for for about 7 years now. If a person from Nigeria is a Nigerian, what's a person from Niger called?

I don't know if you're looking for a serious answer or a racist joke answer, but I was wondering that as well recently for some reason. According to the wikipedia, the correct answer is Nigerien or Nigerois.

ONLY IN KENYA.

/that's gonna be stuck in my head for days

Richard Pye:

4chan: The Motion Picture

*shudder*

Doc Daneeka: The Birthers are my favorite conspiracy theory.

Unlike the Truthers, they aren't pissing all over the remembrance of a sad national tragedy.

Unlike the vaccine-autism people, they aren't causing actual harm to other people.

The Birthers are just endlessly entertaining, and the only damage the do is to their own credibility, and that of anyone on the right who associates with them and their views. I hope that they keep at this fixation for all of Obama's two terms. Rather than, you know, coming up with effective electoral strategies to regain political power.

I prefer the Apollo Moon landing conspiracy, but the top secret birth certificate conspiracy is pretty good too.

He was born during his own trip to Africa. That is confusing.

In 1,297 days he will be asking is brother George if he can use the couch......

Hoopido: So he's not even going to stop and visit his brother in his dirt floor shack.

Has his hut been upgraded to a shack?

opiumpoopy: globalwarmingpraiser: Came for birth of Muslim to white woman certificate. Leaving satisfied.

It's a fake.

I can tell, because you can't measure the length of a baby three days after birth, because they're still too curled up.

That and the pixels.

Deagan Herumor: This is a question I've been bothered by for for about 7 years now. If a person from Nigeria is a Nigerian, what's a person from Niger called?

Nigeroid?

FTA: The first black U.S. president is keen to hold Ghana up as a democratic model for Africa, where polls are too often marred by vote-rigging and violence, denting the pride of states which consider themselves equally important and worthy of a visit.

They have ACORN in Ghana?

Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

//caps make it more true, and make me more cool

/oblig

Rob McKenna: Deagan Herumor: This is a question I've been bothered by for for about 7 years now. If a person from Nigeria is a Nigerian, what's a person from Niger called?

I don't know if you're looking for a serious answer or a racist joke answer, but I was wondering that as well recently for some reason. According to the wikipedia, the correct answer is Nigerien or Nigerois.

No wonder that's what they're, Niger was under French control.

Obama lied. Hope died.

IamAwake
the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

Because it is in the constitution?

brigid_fitch: Just for the hell of it, I've been arguing w/some Birthers over on the YouTube comments. My God, there's some grade-A stupid on there. They're worse than the Truthers.

I know arguing w/them is pointless, but it's an amusing time-waster.

No, no...you want to see real stupid Birthers - go to last nights Fark thread...Link

CapStormfield: Doc Daneeka: The damage the do is to their own credibility.

God, I love watching the lefties dance!

Me too! Gregory Hines and Twyla Tharp are particularly good!
Or was that what you meant?

jungus:

Because it is in the constitution?

True 'nuff, but so is something or other about quartering troops in your house and I think his point was they're both equally relevant in the 21st century.

Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

jungus: IamAwake
the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

Because it is in the constitution?

But I thought that the Constitution was only a goddamn piece of paper. Was Saint George lying about that? Surely not!

Con_Authority: SNOPES Article

Link (Snopes Link)


/hot or not?

badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

Richard Pye: From the article -

"If Obama decides to grace Nigeria with his presence, I will stone him," Nigerian Nobel prize-winning writer Wole Soyinka was quoted by Nigerian newspapers as saying.

Niger please.

Yes please.... he gets stoned all by himself

jungus: IamAwake
the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

Because it is in the constitution?

The Constitution never clarifies what a "Natural Born Citizen" is. I was born overseas to parents who were American citizens. I was born with US citizenship still. I am eligible to be president. Even if Obama was born in Kenya (which he was not) he would be eligible to be president because his mom was a citizen.

jso2897: But I thought that the Constitution was only a goddamn piece of paper. Was Saint George lying about that? Surely not!

Saint George never said it.

zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

jungus: IamAwake
the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

Because it is in the constitution?

Not is says natural born citizen or a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was ratified. Obama could of been born on Mars and still could be considered a natural born citizen.

Um, he was born in Hawaii.

badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Now, dammit, that's Classified Top Secret MUSLIM National Security Documents. Get your Freeper Nomenclature(tm) straight, moran!

badhatharry: I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

With a sign that says "Beware of the Leopard"

badhatharry: zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

badhatharry: Sabyen91: badhatharry: Lagrange: badhatharry:
I don't care if he releases it or not. I do care about the truth. I think this has become an issue because of his name and Kenyan heritage more than the color of his skin. If he was born in Chicago to two black Americans, nobody would care.

Bullshiat.

Of course you care, or you wouldn't be bothering.

I am just fascinated that so many people think I am a lunatic for pointing out the simplest fact. It is like everybody is farking brainwashed. Sitting here stating the obvious, I am probably the one being trolled.

You are making a pointless point. You admit he has proven he is a citizen and then say people are afraid to talk about it. Anybody not on his ignore list want to make that point?

For me, it is not about his citizenship. It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original. If that was ever explained to people clearly, my statements on this thread would not seem so unusual.

Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.



... Wah... what?

zabadu: badhatharry: zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

badhatharry: Sabyen91: badhatharry: Lagrange: badhatharry:
I don't care if he releases it or not. I do care about the truth. I think this has become an issue because of his name and Kenyan heritage more than the color of his skin. If he was born in Chicago to two black Americans, nobody would care.

Bullshiat.

Of course you care, or you wouldn't be bothering.

I am just fascinated that so many people think I am a lunatic for pointing out the simplest fact. It is like everybody is farking brainwashed. Sitting here stating the obvious, I am probably the one being trolled.

You are making a pointless point. You admit he has proven he is a citizen and then say people are afraid to talk about it. Anybody not on his ignore list want to make that point?

For me, it is not about his citizenship. It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original. If that was ever explained to people clearly, my statements on this thread would not seem so unusual.

The released copy is the original. A "Certificate of Live Birth" is a Hawaiian version of a birth certificate.

John McCain was born in Panama. Would we have birthers if he were elected?

I think not.

birthers are racists.

zabadu: ...It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original...

I've seen a fair number of presidents in my time, and I can't recall this ever being an issue in the past. Thus, perhaps unfairly, it's seen as being a political stunt.

40 watt range: John McCain was born in Panama. Would we have birthers if he were elected?

I think not.

birthers are racists.

I agree. They are also mentally ill.

SomeoneDumb: zabadu: ...It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original...

I've seen a fair number of presidents in my time, and I can't recall this ever being an issue in the past. Thus, perhaps unfairly, it's seen as being a political stunt.

Please note, I did not say that, badhatharry did.

40 watt range:
birthers are racists.

Keep smoking 'em.

// Now go get your shine box!

darrent83: "If Obama decides to grace Nigeria with his presence, I will stone him," Nigerian Nobel prize-winning writer Wole Soyinka was quoted by Nigerian newspapers as saying.

They'll stone you when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone you just like they said they would
They'll stone you when you're trying to go home
They'll stone you when you're there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

They'll stone you when you're walking on the street
They'll stone you when you're trying to keep your seat
They'll stone you when your walking on the floor
They'll stone you when your walking to the door
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

They'll stone you when you're at the breakfast table
They'll stone you when you are young and able
They'll stone you when you're trying to make a buck
They'll stone you and then they'll say good luck
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

Well They'll stone you and say that it's the end
They'll stone you and then they'll come back again
They'll stone you when you're riding in your car
They'll stone you when you're playing you guitar
Yes But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
Alright

Well They'll stone you when you are all alone
They'll stone you when you are walking home
They'll stone you and then say they're all brave
They'll stone you when you're send down in your grave
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

No. It's "sit down in your fave."

zabadu: badhatharry: zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

badhatharry: Sabyen91: badhatharry: Lagrange: badhatharry:
I don't care if he releases it or not. I do care about the truth. I think this has become an issue because of his name and Kenyan heritage more than the color of his skin. If he was born in Chicago to two black Americans, nobody would care.

Bullshiat.

Of course you care, or you wouldn't be bothering.

I am just fascinated that so many people think I am a lunatic for pointing out the simplest fact. It is like everybody is farking brainwashed. Sitting here stating the obvious, I am probably the one being trolled.

You are making a pointless point. You admit he has proven he is a citizen and then say people are afraid to talk about it. Anybody not on his ignore list want to make that point?

For me, it is not about his citizenship. It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original. If that was ever explained to people clearly, my statements on this thread would not seem so unusual.

The media avoids reporting a lot of things. Why, just last week, they avoided reporting on the fact that I had a large, annoying pimple on my ass. Why?
Because NOBODY FARKING CARES!!!

zabadu:

Please note, I did not say that, badhatharry did.

My apologies. I should learn how to use the delete key more effectively.

jso2897: zabadu: badhatharry: zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

badhatharry: Sabyen91: badhatharry: Lagrange: badhatharry:
I don't care if he releases it or not. I do care about the truth. I think this has become an issue because of his name and Kenyan heritage more than the color of his skin. If he was born in Chicago to two black Americans, nobody would care.

Bullshiat.

Of course you care, or you wouldn't be bothering.

I am just fascinated that so many people think I am a lunatic for pointing out the simplest fact. It is like everybody is farking brainwashed. Sitting here stating the obvious, I am probably the one being trolled.

You are making a pointless point. You admit he has proven he is a citizen and then say people are afraid to talk about it. Anybody not on his ignore list want to make that point?

For me, it is not about his citizenship. It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original. If that was ever explained to people clearly, my statements on this thread would not seem so unusual.

The media avoids reporting a lot of things. Why, just last week, they avoided reporting on the fact that I had a large, annoying pimple on my ass. Why?
Because NOBODY FARKING CARES!!!

Look, we just want to know why you haven't released the doctor's records showing you had a pimple. I got an email that said that it wasn't a pimple, but rather a secrit muslin growth tumor. If you just release the doctor's records, you can clear this right up.

All he asked was why people cared, I never said Obama didn't fit the bill.
This thing came up when Schwarzenegger first became governator and Republicans where talking about passing an amendment to allow him for the presidency. The time may well be here to amend that but we can't do it for just one person in mind (Ahnold).
As for quartering troops in homes, I still want that one in, what the hell is wrong with you?

And to W calling it just a piece of paper, really, please provide a link and it better not be him telling a joke. W actually did pretty good outside of a massive number of signing statements. Or did I miss the muslem concentration camps all over the country. Guantanimo does not count, but if it did, it was an attempt to find a legal procedure for enemies acting (enemies acting, not US acting) outside of the Geneva conventions.

So no, I do not see the executive branch wiping its ass with the constitution. Now the legislature and ethics laws on the other hand...

Best post from the last thread:

Thai Mai Xhu: I don't believe I've seen so much stupid in one place before.
Every time I think of Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi as president I pray for Mr. Obama's health.
When the birthers ask to see the "long version" of Mr. Obama's "vault copy" of his birth certificate, they are not requesting to see the certificate of live birth, which is a completely different document.
The vault copy of the birth certificate is signed by the doctor who delivered the baby, it is witnessed by the head nurse in attendance, it bears the childs footprints, it is notorised it notes the name of the parents, the race of the infant, it's weight, and length.
It is not illegal for the named individual to publish the certified copies of this form.
Any citizen of the United States is by definition an "interested person".
A number of stories on Rense.com name many lawsuits filed in the interest of discovery of the true details and location of Mr. Obama's birth.
At this point I seriously doubt our country could be strengthened by proving Mr. Obama was born in Kenya.
When the anti-birthers attack birthers personally they expose a critical weakness in thier argument, the same weakness is shown when only partial information concerning rules and regulations are posted.
I take no position on this issue. I fully support our president though I did not vote for him. As an American I feel I have a duty to encourage our president in his efforts to bail out, and right the ship of state.
As some may remember, there was outright looting of the wealth of our country as the last administration prepared to leave office.
I am concerned that certain investigations have not been launched.
I believe Mr. Obama is doing his level best to stop this country's headlong rush toward the road to ruin.
We are fortunate that we still have the freedom to question our public servants, but there is a time and place for all things, and now is no time to detract and distract the current administration's attention.
And this is certainly not the place.
Fark is a community of kindred spirits, I'd like to think we are for the most part friends.
Please shake hands and drop the B.S.. There are plenty of political sites where hatred is the order of the day, let's keep it light here ok?
So my fellow Farkers, have a brew, toke a few, and let the good times roll.
IE: Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

earlier this year, they criticized Obama for not visiting the cemetery in Normandy. When he DID visit it in June, there were some who criticized him for preventing war vets without a ticket from entering on the days he was there.

/you can't win if you're a famous public figure, especially a politician.

jungus: Because it is in the constitution?

I already explained why it was put in the Constitution, and why that is no longer relevant. So, if you're going to not troll, you should either prove that isn't why it was put there, or why it is still relevant. That it is there is not in dispute, even if the meaning of the phrase is. Were it to actually reach a federal court, I think any sane judge would rule many different conditions qualify one for "natural born citizen" you elitist fark that thinks the value of a human is determined by where their mother happened to be when she was giving birth.

False - "certificate of live birth" is not the Hawaiian version of a birth certificate.

That's part of the controversy - he hasn't released his actual birth certificate, and now, it is possible for immigrants and children born in other countries to obtain 'certificates of live birth' in Hawai'i (though it wasn't in the '60s).

//not taking sides - just clarifying.

It's seems like he has something to hide.

My father keeps sending me WND emails about how the evil liberal ebay has been taking down auctions of Obama's "real" Kenyan birth certificate, and not because selling documents violates their rules. It's because the founder works for Obama. The crazy is out of control. Time to put dad in a home.

Every president will be criticized constantly for something. It comes with the job.

And yes, even McCain was getting questions about his birth in Panama during the election. It wouldn't be the same people, but there would have been birthers for him as well.

The more I read threads on this tab, the more I see how politics eats away at the soul.

/How could Obama be born during his trip to Africa?

Link (new window)

jungus: The time may well be here to amend that but we can't do it for just one person in mind (Ahnold).

I disagree... This is still relevant to the fact that there are other foreign nationals that don't have the best interest of America at heart.

Here's an abstract example:

Say they allow anyone to run for president of the U.S. what's to stop Vicente Fox from calling on all Hispanics / Latinos / Mexicans / whatever you call them... to write him in on the ballot?

then we have some problems.

Animatronik: earlier this year, they criticized Obama for not visiting the cemetery in Normandy. When he DID visit it in June, there were some who criticized him for preventing war vets without a ticket from entering on the days he was there.

/you can't win if you're a famous public figure, especially a politician.

It's manufactured criticism, to manufacture outrage. To me, it's one of the worst things about our political culture: everything the other guy does is painted in a bad light, in the hopes that you shine brighter in comparison. There's no rush to be a better politician, just a rush to point out the failings of your opponents. That's one of the reasons why I DO like Obama. I raise my eyebrows at some of his policies, I definitely wasn't a fan of the GM bailout for example, but I look at him as one of the few politicians who is inviting us to judge him by his actions and positions, while the rest of government is focused on outrage and negativity to garner votes.

badhatharry: Best post from the last thread:

Thai Mai Xhu: So my fellow Farkers, have a brew, toke a few, and let the good times roll.
IE: Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Always good advice.

shirtsbyeric: It's seems like he has something to hide.

By not acknowledging (and giving credibility to) a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutters?

Clinton simply dismissed the Vince Foster murder conspiracy theories, as did George Bush with the Truthers. And both were right to do so. These sorts of nuts are going to come out during every presidency, and to give them any more than a flat dismissal followed by ignoring them, is a mistake.

Nothing that Obama says and no "proof" that he could produce would satisfy them. Conspiracy theorists aren't stopped by little obstacles like proof or contrary evidence. Any contrary evidence is suspect as counterfeit or forged, and evidence of an even greater cover-up.

I bought Obama's "certified Kenya birth certificate" on eBay, so I'm getting a big kick . . .

Link (new window)

i love how some of these "birther" people assume that any asshole can call up a random hospital and get a complete stranger's private medical records, including their birth certificate. it doesn't matter if he's the president or a homeless guy. hospitals do not give out that sort of information. you know, cause that would be illegal.

crying about obama's birth certificate is the very last, most fringe scrap of complaint people have against his election. when all else fails, when there's no hanging chads to count, when no one buys the acorn nonsense, when everyone with a brain accepts that obama is now the president, these birther people bring out the most ridiculous argument they can think of that has even the tiniest shred of believability. nothing else worked in getting mccain elected, so now they try to claim that obama can't be president because he's not a natural born citizen!

well guess what? by their own logic, neither is john mccain. he was born in panama, remember?

IamAwake
I suppose that free speech thing that is little too outdated as well. Look, it is a law, and there are many laws that we may not agree with. If what I wrote (I thought it was a not so clever joke) caused you to cry and call me an elitist troll, then ok. Queue picture for elitist troll is elite.

IamAwake: the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

//caps make it more true, and make me more cool

No kidding. The Constitution has the built in future-proof measure to fix problems via ammendments and its more than time to change that part. Much as how religious converts are the most zealous, the most "American" people I've known were immigrants. They're here by choice, they have a benefit of experience and outsiders' perspectives, they'd probably make better presidents.

A long time ago,before computers and when kids graduated after the eighth grade,a president could of easily produced a fake birth certificate and most people would of bought it.

Pictured below is B. Hussein Obama acting concerned with his grandmother, sister (Auma Obama) and other family members and various Kenyan people used as props.




(Editors' Note: This is no way implies that B. Hussein Obama has any ' birth linkage' to Kenya. To imply such would obviously be racist. In fact, displaying a photo of negroes is racist as well, when not properly done by a leftist website or print publication. Being that this is Fark.com, it is our sincere hope that this photograph of B. Hussein Obama's extended Kenyan family & friends will in no way be interpreted as a gratuitous display of negro faces in the Internet.)

/BTW, think he'll visit his brother's tin shack in South Africa?

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: Much as how religious converts are the most zealous, the most "American" people I've known were immigrants. They're here by choice, they have a benefit of experience and outsiders' perspectives, they'd probably make better presidents.

But but but but... the white establishment aren't immigrants!

Waaaaaarrrrrghhhhbbl.

Gato Negro: Pictured below is B. Hussein Obama acting concerned with his grandmother, sister (Auma Obama) and other family members and various Kenyan people used as props.

(Editors' Note: This is no way implies that B. Hussein Obama has any ' birth linkage' to Kenya. To imply such would obviously be racist. In fact, displaying a photo of negroes is racist as well, when not properly done by a leftist website or print publication. Being that this is Fark.com, it is our sincere hope that this photograph of B. Hussein Obama's extended Kenyan family & friends will in no way be interpreted as a gratuitous display of negro faces in the Internet.)

/BTW, think he'll visit his brother's tin shack in South Africa?

LOL! B. Hussein Obama! Wow, that's so original! I would have NEVER suspected his middle name was Hussein!! Wow! Thanks for that information!

You realize that by posting the way you do, you come off as a racist republitard. I hope the secret service visit you.

In other words, Kenya is butthurt.

SophT
jungus: The time may well be here to amend that but we can't do it for just one person in mind (Ahnold).

I disagree... This is still relevant to the fact that there are other foreign nationals that don't have the best interest of America at heart.

Here's an abstract example:

Say they allow anyone to run for president of the U.S. what's to stop Vicente Fox from calling on all Hispanics / Latinos / Mexicans / whatever you call them... to write him in on the ballot?

then we have some problems.

That could very well happen. I have seen that happen in various organizations where a group from another org will come in on election day and vote in their buddy. At Masonic lodges there are rules on who can vote (usually current lodge members) but not so much who can run. In your scenario this would allow Mr. Fox to run and any Mexican who is also a U.S. citizen would have full rights to vote for him.
Sadly, we have problems whoever we get.

Schmea: That's one of the reasons why I DO like Obama. I raise my eyebrows at some of his policies, I definitely wasn't a fan of the GM bailout for example, but I look at him as one of the few politicians who is inviting us to judge him by his actions and positions, while the rest of government is focused on outrage and negativity to garner votes.

so, Bush spent a lot of time criticizing Democrats? No, so that means you liked him?

IamAwake: so, Bush spent a lot of time criticizing Democrats? No, so that means you liked him?

Bush didn't need to directly attack Democrats because he had a full time, 24-hour "news" channel doing it for him.

Where do you find Obama? Only in Kenya.... only in kenya we have Obamaaaaaaaaaa

Gato Negro



/hot

Schmea: Animatronik: earlier this year, they criticized Obama for not visiting the cemetery in Normandy. When he DID visit it in June, there were some who criticized him for preventing war vets without a ticket from entering on the days he was there.

/you can't win if you're a famous public figure, especially a politician.

It's manufactured criticism, to manufacture outrage. To me, it's one of the worst things about our political culture: everything the other guy does is painted in a bad light, in the hopes that you shine brighter in comparison. There's no rush to be a better politician, just a rush to point out the failings of your opponents. That's one of the reasons why I DO like Obama. I raise my eyebrows at some of his policies, I definitely wasn't a fan of the GM bailout for example, but I look at him as one of the few politicians who is inviting us to judge him by his actions and positions, while the rest of government is focused on outrage and negativity to garner votes.

I wish I could agree with you, but I think you couldn't be more wrong. The last thing a president should be doing is mentioning Rush Limbaugh by name as a leader of the opposition. It's just politics coming from the guy who's running the show, both parties do it.

Rahm Emmanuel probably learned more from Rove and DeLay than any Democrat. That's not a good thing for anyone.

wait, is criticizing our elected officials un-american again?

SophT: Say they allow anyone to run for president of the U.S. what's to stop Vicente Fox from calling on all Hispanics / Latinos / Mexicans / whatever you call them... to write him in on the ballot?

then we have some problems.

really? First, he'd not win simply because Hispanics voted for him. Second...why would it matter? We're not in danger of British nobility taking over. That issue is gone. What we ARE in danger of is the republican and democrat asshats that are - really - the same party, and are pandering to themselves as a collective group (albeit a group with two faces) while destroying the country. So what is it about where Fox happened to be born that troubles you, exactly? What makes someone more qualified simply because they were born here?

I just want to write "Jehovah's Witnesses" so the trolls google alert will chime...giggity

IamAwake: so, Bush spent a lot of time criticizing Democrats? No, so that means you liked him?

I'll give an honest answer to a question that I think was posed with the assumption that since I said I like Obama, this question would get a rise out of me or display some hypocrisy:

I don't remember Bush himself spending a lot of time criticizing, in fact one praise you could give him was that the man DID take actions, and those actions were often bold. However, just as I said in my comment about Obama, I disagreed with policy decisions... however, in the case of George W. Bush those disagreements became more and more fundamental problems with how I viewed his handling of the political landscape. His painting of any individual or group that disagreed with his policies as being against freedom, the constant cranking up of fear, and major policy decisions that lead to a war that I disagree with... while I went into his presidency with an open mind (actually, far more than an open mind... after 911 I don't think I was ever more prepared to be 100% behind and support a president than I was with President Bush) but over time the decisions he made were too far from what I believe strongly in, and crossed lines that I believe were outright terrible decisions for a president of the United states to make. For those reasons I did not like President Bush as president.

But, I will hold Obama to these same standards. So far I have liked the man and his attitude towards his role and the people, but have raised eyebrows at certain decisions. I will not, just as i did with President Bush, leap to condemn or praise him just because he has a (D) or (R) beside his name... in the end, I'll judge him for what he does. It's early days - I hope he does well, since why would you hope otherwise?

So what?

Pechorin: Even if Obama was born in Kenya (which he was not) he would be eligible to be president because his mom was a citizen.

OBAMA HAZ AN ANCHOR MOMMY!!!1!

opiumpoopy: globalwarmingpraiser: Came for birth of Muslim to white woman certificate. Leaving satisfied.

It's a fake.

I can tell, because you can't measure the length of a baby three days after birth, because they're still too curled up.

Plus their eyes aren't even open yet. But those tiny little claws are so cute!

Linguine: Link (new window)

It clearly says, "Any alterations invalidate this certificate". And the certificate number has been blacked out.

Therefore, it is invalid.

Therefore, Obama was born in Kenya. Or Indonesia. I forget.

jungus: I suppose that free speech thing that is little too outdated as well. Look, it is a law, and there are many laws that we may not agree with. If what I wrote (I thought it was a not so clever joke) caused you to cry and call me an elitist troll, then ok. Queue picture for elitist troll is elite.

so you're not going to defend your stand? And you're honestly going to compare a right (Freedom of Speech) to a restriction (anti-democracy clause to prevent British nobility from becoming president)? You really think you've got a good argument there? Seriously?

I said it was in the Constitution, but that it was outdated, and asked why people think it matters now. Your response was to merely repeat what I had already said - that it was in the Constitution. I know what's in there, and I know how much BS has been allowed the federal government via the commerce clause. I also know that the intent of what was written was not to exclude people who were born of US citizens, and may or may not (and it shouldn't matter) have been on US soil the moment they were born. If someone had been born in Ohio before it was part of the US, and then a year later it became part of the US, would you say that somehow - magically - makes them less able to fulfill the role of President?

Do you agree, or disagree, that it is no longer relevant?

IamAwake:

really? First, he'd not win simply because Hispanics voted for him. Second...why would it matter? We're not in danger of British nobility taking over. That issue is gone. What we ARE in danger of is the republican and democrat asshats that are - really - the same party, and are pandering to themselves as a collective group (albeit a group with two faces) while destroying the country. So what is it about where Fox happened to be born that troubles you, exactly? What makes someone more qualified simply because they were born here?

Look I'm aware that that was a flawed example, but it's just to point out why that still remains, let me give you a different example, Say that that is ammended in 2012- it won't have any major ramifications in the 12 or even 16 election. But say that a week after that passes that the Ayatollah calls on all muslims in the world to move to the U.S. and gain citizenship and that in 2020 they should all vote for him.

I'm not trying to get into a Republican / Democrat debate. I realize that the threat of British nobility taking over has disappeared, and that, for the time being we're not in any serious threat of a different group overthrowing us policically, but I tend to think the founding Father's has enough wisdom to have foresight that the British may not have ever been America's only enemy, that's why the constitution doesn't say "No British born person" can be president instead of saying only U.S. can.

Linguine: Link (new window)

I just noticed the text underneath that says "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."

Will these birthers accept anything or will they just continue being that stupid?

IamAwake: And you're honestly going to compare a right (Freedom of Speech) to a restriction (anti-democracy clause to prevent British nobility from becoming president)?

It's complicated, I know, but- rights cannot exist without restrictions. That 'restriction' is kept in there to keep other groups from coming in and stripping away the other 'rights'.

You keep hanging on the whole "british nobility" thing - I believe that it doesn't specifically address British nobility because they didn't want American being overrun by ANYONE (british, french, Italian, or any other 'unknown' future threat).

U.S. citizens hold certain, inalienable rights, that non-citizens do not. One of those rights is the right to pursue the office of the Presidency. Another is voting. Citizen's rights exist, whether you like it or not, with the sole interest of protecting citizens - not everyone.

SophT: But say that a week after that passes that the Ayatollah calls on all muslims in the world to move to the U.S. and gain citizenship and that in 2020 they should all vote for him.

This is exceedingly unlikely. Even France, who begged immigrants from the neighboring Muslim countries to move in after WW2 to rebuild the country, and who doesn't have have such a provision, isn't in any danger of this. What would make you think that the US would be?

brigid_fitch: Just for the hell of it, I've been arguing w/some Birthers over on the YouTube comments. My God, there's some grade-A stupid on there. They're worse than the Truthers.

I know arguing w/them is pointless, but it's an amusing time-waster.

Don't know if it's been said before, but birthers are the furries of politics.

Pechorin: jso2897: zabadu: badhatharry: zabadu: badhatharry: Doctor Funkenstein: Behold! The Birthers website! (new window)

Please check your sanity at the door.

Don't these idiots know that Obama's birth certificate and the hospital records are Classified Top Secret National Security documents. You can't go around showing your birth certificate to people as proof of birth. What a bunch of morans!

Please see BadHatHarry's comments in the aforementioned link. The man is a turd stirrer.

I have switched my position. I have since learned that birth records in Hawaii are stored in a room much like the one in Mission Impossible. Only high clearance people are allowed to look at them. And there is absolutely no photocopying of such records. Much less disseminating them.

badhatharry: Sabyen91: badhatharry: Lagrange: badhatharry:
I don't care if he releases it or not. I do care about the truth. I think this has become an issue because of his name and Kenyan heritage more than the color of his skin. If he was born in Chicago to two black Americans, nobody would care.

Bullshiat.

Of course you care, or you wouldn't be bothering.

I am just fascinated that so many people think I am a lunatic for pointing out the simplest fact. It is like everybody is farking brainwashed. Sitting here stating the obvious, I am probably the one being trolled.

You are making a pointless point. You admit he has proven he is a citizen and then say people are afraid to talk about it. Anybody not on his ignore list want to make that point?

For me, it is not about his citizenship. It is about the media avoiding the fact that he has not released the original. If that was ever explained to people clearly, my statements on this thread would not seem so unusual.

The media avoids reporting a lot of things. Why, just last week, they avoided reporting on the fact that I had a large, annoying pimple on my ass. Why?
Because NOBODY FARKING CARES!!!

Look, we just want to know why you haven't released the doctor's records showing you had a pimple. I got an email that said that it wasn't a pimple, but rather a secrit muslin growth tumor. If you just release the doctor's records, you can clear this right up.

I tried releasing a photo of the pimple, but my detractors insisted it was a shooped MRI of George Bush's brain.

SophT: U.S. citizens hold certain, inalienable rights, that non-citizens do not. One of those rights is the right to pursue the office of the Presidency. Another is voting. Citizen's rights exist, whether you like it or not, with the sole interest of protecting citizens - not everyone.

please don't use "inalienable rights" that way without re-reading the Declaration of Independence, from which the term holds the most meaning in this context. I don't think you'll find mention of "US Citizens" being who holds such rights.

IamAwake:

This is exceedingly unlikely. Even France, who begged immigrants from the neighboring Muslim countries to move in after WW2 to rebuild the country, and who doesn't have have such a provision, isn't in any danger of this. What would make you think that the US would be?

Exceedingly unlikely, yes. Impossible, no. I'm just saying that those are the reasons that that part of the constitution exists and is still valid - it's a protection, insurance, just in case.

As far as France (and Europe) goes - that's arguable, things have changed drastically over there in the last 5 decades, look at sharia law, which would be in direct contradiction of the spirit of American law.

Animatronik:
I wish I could agree with you, but I think you couldn't be more wrong. The last thing a president should be doing is mentioning Rush Limbaugh by name as a leader of the opposition. It's just politics coming from the guy who's running the show, both parties do it.

Rahm Emmanuel probably learned more from Rove and DeLay than any Democrat. That's not a good thing for anyone.

I agree with you completely that both parties do it. When I said it's one of the worst parts of politics, I meant both side, the whole spectrum.

Though I'm not going to wager a guess as to whether Obama himself was involved in Rahm Emmanuel's choice to paint Limbaugh as head of the opposition... that we don't know. But I think the fact that Obama had a built in campaign of "look how bad Bush has been" and instead campaigned on "hey we're awesome but let's work and be awesomer!" gave me hope. Sure, there were criticisms, and some negative aspects, but the entire campaign could have been negative, instead it was a very positive one. That's what make me stand up and take note, and i would have done it regardless of the party. I personally wish McCain's campaign had stuck to the positives they could have brought to the country too, as in my view McCain had a lot going for him, and let himself be turned to the dark side of politics to win.

I also think it's interesting that we started out with television working with the government to help make the president and our government as an extension look good (see FDR wheelchair), and has progressed all the way to the actual creation of television stations with the intent of making the government (at least your opponents) look bad. Public tastes changes and being reflecting in television, or greedy powerful men getting more and more bold and shaping what we accept?

IamAwake:
please don't use "inalienable rights" that way without re-reading the Declaration of Independence, from which the term holds the most meaning in this context. I don't think you'll find mention of "US Citizens" being who holds such rights.

Ok, contextually speaking, U.S. citizens have rights that cannot be stripped of them, and that also only belong to U.S. citizens.

IamAwake: SophT: But say that a week after that passes that the Ayatollah calls on all muslims in the world to move to the U.S. and gain citizenship and that in 2020 they should all vote for him.

This is exceedingly unlikely. Even France, who begged immigrants from the neighboring Muslim countries to move in after WW2 to rebuild the country, and who doesn't have have such a provision, isn't in any danger of this. What would make you think that the US would be?

Not on topic, but Which neighboring Muslim countries are you talking about? Germany? Italy? Spain? Oh right, Luxembourg...

France had (has) a strong colonial presence in more than a few Muslim countries. Which is were they likely courted immigrants.

SophT: IamAwake:

really? First, he'd not win simply because Hispanics voted for him. Second...why would it matter? We're not in danger of British nobility taking over. That issue is gone. What we ARE in danger of is the republican and democrat asshats that are - really - the same party, and are pandering to themselves as a collective group (albeit a group with two faces) while destroying the country. So what is it about where Fox happened to be born that troubles you, exactly? What makes someone more qualified simply because they were born here?

Look I'm aware that that was a flawed example, but it's just to point out why that still remains, let me give you a different example, Say that that is ammended in 2012- it won't have any major ramifications in the 12 or even 16 election. But say that a week after that passes that the Ayatollah calls on all muslims in the world to move to the U.S. and gain citizenship and that in 2020 they should all vote for him.

That's a VERY grave concern, but I think you are overlooking the real danger. The minute we repeal the constitutional requirement that every U.S. president produce his "original" birth certificate, like all the others were always made to do, the Lizard People are going to come boiling out of the ground and TAKE OVER OUR COUNTRY!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

jso2897:
That's a VERY grave concern, but I think you are overlooking the real danger. The minute we repeal the constitutional requirement that every U.S. president produce his "original" birth certificate, like all the others were always made to do, the Lizard People are going to come boiling out of the ground and TAKE OVER OUR COUNTRY!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos!


/Ross perot is gonna be pissed

SophT: Ok, contextually speaking, U.S. citizens have rights that cannot be stripped of them, and that also only belong to U.S. citizens.

Such as?

Doc Daneeka:
Such as?

voting?

SophT: As far as France (and Europe) goes - that's arguable, things have changed drastically over there in the last 5 decades, look at sharia law, which would be in direct contradiction of the spirit of American law.

and such was put in place by legislative and judicial bodies of government, so it is not relevant to this convo about a restriction that is wholly focused on one exact, precise, limitation?

Ok, contextually speaking, U.S. citizens have rights that cannot be stripped of them, and that also only belong to U.S. citizens.

"inalienable rights" - as described by the Declaration of Independence (and never mentioned in the Constitution" are "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." In the post I was responding to, you said:

U.S. citizens hold certain, inalienable rights, that non-citizens do not. One of those rights is the right to pursue the office of the Presidency. Another is voting. Citizen's rights exist, whether you like it or not, with the sole interest of protecting citizens - not everyone.

Note that first - none of those are "inalienable rights" that you list, since they can in fact be removed. Second, ask the Governor of California whether there is a difference between "U.S. citizens" and "Natural Born Citizens." The convo isn't about whether non-citizens should be allowed to be president, the convo is about whether the "natural born" part is outdated. I'm not arguing that non-citizens should be allowed to be president.

The only distinction of which I am aware between a "Natural born Citizen" and a non-natural born citizen is that the non-natural born citizen cannot be Pres or in the immediate line of succession to pres (within the context of rights and limitations, assuming both are citizens). That has little to do with Sharia law being enacted in Europe - such a provision wouldn't have stopped that (but fortunately, other provisions do stop it).

So again - why would it matter if Obama was born in Kenya? Would that really affect his ability to fulfill the role of President?

SophT: Doc Daneeka:
Such as?

voting?

Voting a right that "cannot be stripped" of citizens?

You never heard of convicted felons before?

Poo - "and such was put in place by legislative and judicial bodies of government, so it is not relevant to this convo about a restriction that is wholly focused on one exact, precise, limitation?" got wargarbled. Should end "one exact, precise, limitation on one particular office of the executive branch, with none on the legislative and judicial branches that caused this to occur."

Schmea: I also think it's interesting that we started out with television working with the government to help make the president and our government as an extension look good (see FDR wheelchair), and has progressed all the way to the actual creation of television stations with the intent of making the government (at least your opponents) look bad. Public tastes changes and being reflecting in television, or greedy powerful men getting more and more bold and shaping what we accept?

I think both sides have become more heavily entrenched in the media, because the proliferation of media has increased the public taste for blood.

Kind of like if you were a Roman, you might go to see a play on a holiday for entertainment. But then they started throwing games that lasted for days. It just got bloodier and bloodier with the gladiators. The more media there is, the more they compete for your attention.

/Didn't someone named Drew write a book about something like this?
//Maybe I should buy it.

IamAwake: So again - why would it matter if Obama was born in Kenya? Would that really affect his ability to fulfill the role of President?

I don't think that it would matter if Obama was born in Kenya - if the law provides that a "natural born citizen" can be born in another country. I have no quarrel with that - and I'm defiantly not arguing that Obama needs to show his birth certificate or that he can't be President.

My whole point was a response to those saying that that part of the constitution was no longer relevant in the U.S. and should be ammended/repealed.

I hope President Obama the best in his term, and in his second if he runs and wins again, for the sake of his political career, and for the sake of all U.S. citizens.

/thanks for keeping it civil - makes it more fun.

Doc Daneeka: Such as?

Like such as, and?

40 watt range: Not on topic, but Which neighboring Muslim countries are you talking about? Germany? Italy? Spain? Oh right, Luxembourg...

Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt...

You need to go study a bit of post WW2 history, methinks. France was decimated during the war. The reason there are so many Muslim youth in France - the ones that have been in the riots the last few years - is because the French were unable/unwilling to rebuild their country themselves after the war. Point is, they have decades and decades of Muslim influence there now, and are still not in danger of what was suggested. Which is proof we would also not be.

Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

I can see the same happening for the O man if that Kenyan BC ever makes a public appearance. Again, nobody really and truly cares where he was born, particularly his ardent supporters. But the fact he and his campaign put a great deal of effort into persuading the majority of us to believe he was born in Hawaii, if in fact he was not, suddenly makes this renowned constitutional scholar a ... what's the word? Oh yea, a fraud.

acchief: Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

funny, few people I know cared that he lied about it. Instead, they cared that he was a sexual predator, and getting BJs in the oval office from girls barely out of their teens.

Doc Daneeka: SophT: Doc Daneeka:
Such as?

voting?

Voting a right that "cannot be stripped" of citizens?

You never heard of convicted felons before?

I would consider that 'forfeited' - as a result of their own actions, but I digress. Perhaps beyond life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness no one has any inalienable rights - citizen or not.

Thank God for these 2 little words:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Doc Daneeka: SophT: Ok, contextually speaking, U.S. citizens have rights that cannot be stripped of them, and that also only belong to U.S. citizens.

Such as?

important to repeat.

The "inalienable rights" were rights that the Founding Fathers felt belonged to all men (gender non-specific, arguably) regardless of where they were born. Not a single one of those rights were stated to have been reserved to only US Citizens.

The rights (more like "responsibilities") given to US citizens are instead things that can actually be removed. Every right a US citizen has that a non-US citizen doesn't have can in fact be removed - some of them, quite easily. Some would suggest that non-citizens don't have the right to be in the US without first being screened, but I would argue they're wrong - they have the right, it is just being withheld from them by short-sighted people at this current time. For the bulk of US history, they made use of that right with much less resistance.

It is really important to understand what the Founding Fathers did. They made 3 categories of people. Each category has the benefits of the proceeding.

1) "all men" - who have various "inalienable rights."
2) "citizens" - who are able to vote, run for office, receive government assistance
3) "natural born citizens" - able to run for president.

Everyone on the planet is in the first category. Anyone on the planet that isn't a felon or otherwise a known danger can, if they put in the effort, achieve the second category - assuming they weren't automatically a citizen when they were born. The third category is something you either are, or you aren't.

IamAwake: acchief: Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

funny, few people I know cared that he lied about it. Instead, they cared that he was a sexual predator, and getting BJs in the oval office from girls barely out of their teens.

So the impeachment ordeal we all suffered through was over a blow job afterall? Thanks for clearing up that confusion.

Fat and Nasty 86: His grandma said he was born in Kenya and mysteriously died less than a week before the election?

DUN DUN DUN

Actually, his paternal grandma was the one who said he was born in Kenya, his honkey grandma was the one who dies before the election.

IamAwake: The "inalienable rights" were rights that the Founding Fathers felt belonged to all men (gender non-specific, arguably) regardless of where they were born. Not a single one of those rights were stated to have been reserved to only US Citizens.

Not just the Declaration. Looking over the Bill of Rights, I see that pretty much all the rights that are enumerated and guaranteed belong, not to Citizens, but to "the people."

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

An awful lot of rights guaranteed to "the people," and nary a mention of citizenship status anywhere.

Is Obama's deadbeat aunt still in the states illegally? Deport her ass.

acchief: IamAwake: acchief: Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

funny, few people I know cared that he lied about it. Instead, they cared that he was a sexual predator, and getting BJs in the oval office from girls barely out of their teens.

So the impeachment ordeal we all suffered through was over a blow job afterall? Thanks for clearing up that confusion.

No, it was about lying under oath to tank a sexual harassment case brought against him by Jennifer Flowers. The perjury was the impeachable offense. The media tried to redefine the issue as simply about a BJ to try to mitigate the damage. Nice try at revisionist history though. Keep repeating a lie often enough people who do not payt attention will see it as the truth.

acchief: IamAwake: acchief: Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

funny, few people I know cared that he lied about it. Instead, they cared that he was a sexual predator, and getting BJs in the oval office from girls barely out of their teens.

So the impeachment ordeal we all suffered through was over a blow job afterall? Thanks for clearing up that confusion.

Was pointing out your "nobody" argument was wrong. Take it how you wish, though.

/that is all

jdmac: No, it was about lying under oath to tank a sexual harassment case brought against him by Jennifer Flowers. The perjury was the impeachable offense. The media tried to redefine the issue as simply about a BJ to try to mitigate the damage. Nice try at revisionist history though. Keep repeating a lie often enough people who do not payt attention will see it as the truth.

"Lying under oath" and "perjury" aren't the same thing.

While Bill Clinton did lie under oath about Monica Lewinsky, it wasn't perjury.

Watch out for the spears!!

I sent an e-mail asking them questions about facts we've brought up on this forum and they already replied to me back.

Bold is my question, italic is their response:

What do you guys hope to accomplish with this non-sense?



Have the Constitution obeyed. Let the people know that both sides have been taking unlawful liberties with our Constitution.



Even if you do manage to somehow get Obama impeached because of this Biden will take his place, not McCain and (Thank God) Palin. So no matter what we'll have a Democrat running this country regardless of where Obama was born.



Not an accurate assumption. If Obama is proven not to be a NBC then I think Biden will be pretty much alone. Pelosi will loose her power. The people will clean out Congress. There is also the fact that everything Obama signed will be null and void. No trillion dollar stimulus, no unconstitutional hate crimes, no cap and trade, all his appointments gone. There is a lot that will happen.



It is interesting that you thank God for not having Governor Sarah Palin as a potential President, so do you thank God for Obama and all the babies he is killing with your tax dollars, for betraying our allies and supporting our enemies, for destroying our country's fabric?


Also, since his mother was a US citizen, doesn't that make Obama a US citizen anyways and this whole nonsense a moot point?



His mother was a citizen yes, but that does not mean he is a citizen. If he was born in Kenya then he is not a citizen, that is the law. If he was born in Hawaii he is a born citizen according to the 14th admendment. But he will never be a natural born citizen in the eyes of our Founders.

And you said that you would get on McCain about this too if he were to run again but how come you guys didn't do so when he was running last year?



First, John McCain is a moot point. Second, if he were to run again we would protest his eligibility. At the time it was said that he was born on a military base in a military hospital. Our research now shows that this is not true. At the time of his birth, the hospital mentioned was in fact outside of the bases limits. John McCain was in fact not born within the jurisdiction of the United States. No act of Congress can change that.

Lastly, we didn't have to, we had you doing that for us.



Have a happy 4th!

Pretty much what I expected. At least they thanked a Godless liberal like me a happy 4th.

Schmea: It's early days - I hope he does well, since why would you hope otherwise?

Cheerleading for policies you disagree with (like the scamulous package, or railroading health "reform" through congress with the same methods as the scamulous package doom & gloom)... you wouldn't expect anyone to do this.

Now, there are Bushbots who said "you are either with us or against us," and of course the Obamatons would never say that... but here we are.

Obama is the President now, as you say. What he says & does is what we talk about. Philosophically, some people will say, "DON'T DO THAT!" to many of Obama's policies. Is this cheerleading for the downfall of America to disagree with Obama?

/who gives a crap if he goes to Kenya? What is Kenya going to do? Launch cruise missiles at Hawaii? If he wants to go to Kenya to do good work, fine... otherwise, a photo op like Clinton's whistlestop in Rwanda is a waste of his time & our time.

Linguine: Link (new window)

Simply upping the contrast and converting the image to Black and White reveals the date stamp on the back of this document as June 6, 2007:



Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

This of course can be a certified copy that was obtained while BO was campaigning for President, but it is not an original document. Further, this is not a Birth Certificate from a hospital (which must exist somewhere), but a Certificate of Live Birth (which can be generated after the fact based only on the word of a parent). This may be something, or it may be nothing, but BO has done nothing to put this issue behind him once and for all. And with the way the media willing gets on its knees and sucks his wang, the chances are good we will never know.

IamAwake: 40 watt range: Not on topic, but Which neighboring Muslim countries are you talking about? Germany? Italy? Spain? Oh right, Luxembourg...

Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt...

You need to go study a bit of post WW2 history, methinks. France was decimated during the war. The reason there are so many Muslim youth in France - the ones that have been in the riots the last few years - is because the French were unable/unwilling to rebuild their country themselves after the war. Point is, they have decades and decades of Muslim influence there now, and are still not in danger of what was suggested. Which is proof we would also not be.

First of all, I said my post wasn't germane to the topic, so no, I don't need to go study WW2 history.

You need to study geography.

The countries you listed aren't neighboring countries.

I never denied that Muslims were invited to France. Or that there is a large Muslim influence in France. I just said Just that they didn't come from neighboring countries. More likely they came from France's African long African involvements. Which pre-dates world war II.



You fail at reading my post.

Otto_E_Rodika: Linguine: Link (new window)

Simply upping the contrast and converting the image to Black and White reveals the date stamp on the back of this document as June 6, 2007:



Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

This of course can be a certified copy that was obtained while BO was campaigning for President, but it is not an original document. Further, this is not a Birth Certificate from a hospital (which must exist somewhere), but a Certificate of Live Birth (which can be generated after the fact based only on the word of a parent). This may be something, or it may be nothing, but BO has done nothing to put this issue behind him once and for all. And with the way the media willing gets on its knees and sucks his wang, the chances are good we will never know.

What is it with insane Conservatives and criticizing the media and Obama supporters of sucking his ding-dong? Is it jealousy or something? But have you guys read the bottom of the document that says that "This copy serves as the prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding" so what's the deal then? This is all he needed to show.

Also decimated doesn't mean what you think it means. It means, to take the tenth.

To kill one in ten men, not totally destroy a country.

jdmac: Fat and Nasty 86: His grandma said he was born in Kenya and mysteriously died less than a week before the election?

DUN DUN DUN

Actually, his paternal grandma was the one who said he was born in Kenya, his honkey grandma was the one who dies before the election.

DUN DUN DUN DUN

jdmac: acchief: IamAwake: acchief: Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

funny, few people I know cared that he lied about it. Instead, they cared that he was a sexual predator, and getting BJs in the oval office from girls barely out of their teens.

So the impeachment ordeal we all suffered through was over a blow job afterall? Thanks for clearing up that confusion.

No, it was about lying under oath to tank a sexual harassment case brought against him by Jennifer Flowers. The perjury was the impeachable offense. The media tried to redefine the issue as simply about a BJ to try to mitigate the damage. Nice try at revisionist history though. Keep repeating a lie often enough people who do not payt attention will see it as the truth.

Nobody really cared whether Clinton had a blow job while serving as president. The fact he lied about it formed the basis of the outrage.

I can see the same happening for the O man if that Kenyan BC ever makes a public appearance. Again, nobody really and truly cares where he was born, particularly his ardent supporters. But the fact he and his campaign put a great deal of effort into persuading the majority of us to believe he was born in Hawaii, if in fact he was not, suddenly makes this renowned constitutional scholar a ... what's the word? Oh yea, a fraud.

Uh, Barack Obama was born in the States. His father was born in Kenya, and as I recall, he's now deceased.

40 watt range: The countries you listed aren't neighboring countries.

yes. They are. They aren't bordering countries, but they are neighbors.

Doc Daneeka: jdmac: No, it was about lying under oath to tank a sexual harassment case brought against him by Jennifer Flowers. The perjury was the impeachable offense. The media tried to redefine the issue as simply about a BJ to try to mitigate the damage. Nice try at revisionist history though. Keep repeating a lie often enough people who do not payt attention will see it as the truth.

"Lying under oath" and "perjury" aren't the same thing.

While Bill Clinton did lie under oath about Monica Lewinsky, it wasn't perjury.

Actually...

PERJURY - When a person, having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the U.S. authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true; 18 USC

In order for a person to be found guilty of perjury the government must prove: the person testified under oath before [e.g., the grand jury]; at least one particular statement was false; and the person knew at the time the testimony was false.

The testimony of one witness is not enough to support a finding that the testimony was false. There must be additional evidence, either the testimony of another person or other evidence, which tends to support the testimony of falsity. The other evidence, standing alone, need not convince that the testimony was false, but all the evidence on the subject must do so.

I beleive there was blue dress and some DNA in combination with the quote "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" under oath, during a trial took us right into the definition of perjury. And yes that was what Clinton got impeached for.

Let me guess, next you are going to want to discuss the meaning of the word "is"

Or maybe you will say that a BJ is not a "sexual relation"



Clinton was way worse than Nixon when it comes to honesty, attacking enemies and coverups- but he was the right party so I guess none of that counts right?

jdmac: PERJURY - When a person, having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the U.S. authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true; 18 USC

Key word bolded there.

To elaborate: Perjury, also known as forswearing, is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to a judicial proceeding.[1] That is, the matter lied about would affect the outcome of the case. It is not considered perjury, for example, to lie about one's age, unless that person's age is a key factor in proving the case, such as eligibility for old age retirement benefits.

The questions about Monica Lewinsky were not at all material to the investigation.

The Office of the Independent Counsel was empowered to investigate Whitewater. Kenneth Starr went far afield and beyond his mandate in investigating Paula Jones and Lewinsky and other things that were not at all material to the Whitewater investigation. It was a free-floating witchhunt looking for something to investigate.

Mrtraveler01: Otto_E_Rodika: Linguine: Link (new window)

Simply upping the contrast and converting the image to Black and White reveals the date stamp on the back of this document as June 6, 2007:



Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

This of course can be a certified copy that was obtained while BO was campaigning for President, but it is not an original document. Further, this is not a Birth Certificate from a hospital (which must exist somewhere), but a Certificate of Live Birth (which can be generated after the fact based only on the word of a parent). This may be something, or it may be nothing, but BO has done nothing to put this issue behind him once and for all. And with the way the media willing gets on its knees and sucks his wang, the chances are good we will never know.

What is it with insane Conservatives and criticizing the media and Obama supporters of sucking his ding-dong? Is it jealousy or something? But have you guys read the bottom of the document that says that "This copy serves as the prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding" so what's the deal then? This is all he needed to show.

Prima facie means at first glance. Should other evidence surface disputing the accuracy of the prima facie evidence, then it's no longer valid as evidence.

Came for "The Negro Community Frowns Upon Your Shenanigans".

Left disappointed.

Mrtraveler01: Otto_E_Rodika: Linguine: Link (new window)

Simply upping the contrast and converting the image to Black and White reveals the date stamp on the back of this document as June 6, 2007:



Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others!

This of course can be a certified copy that was obtained while BO was campaigning for President, but it is not an original document. Further, this is not a Birth Certificate from a hospital (which must exist somewhere), but a Certificate of Live Birth (which can be generated after the fact based only on the word of a parent). This may be something, or it may be nothing, but BO has done nothing to put this issue behind him once and for all. And with the way the media willing gets on its knees and sucks his wang, the chances are good we will never know.

What is it with insane Conservatives and criticizing the media and Obama supporters of sucking his ding-dong? Is it jealousy or something? But have you guys read the bottom of the document that says that "This copy serves as the prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding" so what's the deal then? This is all he needed to show.


prima facie -noun
1. at first appearance; at first view, before investigation.
2. plain or clear; self-evident; obvious.
Origin:
1425-75; late ME Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
|
pri·ma fa·cie (prī'mə fā'shē -shə, -shē-ē)
adv. At first sight; before closer inspection: They had, prima facie, a legitimate complaint.
adj.

1. True, authentic, or adequate at first sight; ostensible: prima facie credibility.
2. Evident without proof or reasoning; obvious: a prima facie violation of the treaty.

acchief:

prima facie -noun
1. at first appearance; at first view, before investigation.
2. plain or clear; self-evident; obvious.
Origin:
1425-75; late ME Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
|
pri·ma fa·cie (prī'mə fā'shē -shə, -shē-ē)
adv. At first sight; before closer inspection: They had, prima facie, a legitimate complaint.
adj.

1. True, authentic, or adequate at first sight; ostensible: prima facie credibility.
2. Evident without proof or reasoning; obvious: a prima facie violation of the treaty.

The key words from that definition being "self-evident" and "obvious."

Prima facie evidence is evidence that is sufficient on its own, without the need for additional evidence, to establish some proposition. Unless it is specifically refuted by other evidence. And as far as I know, there is no credible evidence that Obama is not a natural born citizen.

Nods approvingly. . . .



From the low-rent section of downtown hell.

Doc Daneeka: acchief:

prima facie -noun
1. at first appearance; at first view, before investigation.
2. plain or clear; self-evident; obvious.
Origin:
1425-75; late ME Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
|
pri·ma fa·cie (prī'mə fā'shē -shə, -shē-ē)
adv. At first sight; before closer inspection: They had, prima facie, a legitimate complaint.
adj.

1. True, authentic, or adequate at first sight; ostensible: prima facie credibility.
2. Evident without proof or reasoning; obvious: a prima facie violation of the treaty.

The key words from that definition being "self-evident" and "obvious."

Prima facie evidence is evidence that is sufficient on its own, without the need for additional evidence, to establish some proposition. Unless it is specifically refuted by other evidence. And as far as I know, there is no credible evidence that Obama is not a natural born citizen.

It's funny how the Birthers don't believe the validity of the COLB or the statements of Hawaii's Republican governor, but they believe that someone on eBay has the actual document, and THAT is irrefutable proof.

jdmac: I beleive there was blue dress and some DNA in combination with the quote "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" under oath, during a trial took us right into the definition of perjury. And yes that was what Clinton got impeached for.

You do realize that Clinton was specifically acquitted (among other things) on the charge of perjury, right?

That because he's terrified someone will bring forth his birth certificate or other documentation proving he's not an American citizen.

Random point of noticing: Not that it matters all that much, but why do Hawai'ians put their island of birth on the birth certificate? I mean, other than the one with Molokai, they're all one island/one county, give or take....

I *wish* Obama's birth certificate was fake. Imagine the shiat storm that would cause?

clifton: I *wish* Obama's birth certificate was fake. Imagine the shiat storm that would cause?

Nah, the funny part is going to be sometime in 2011-ish when the dollar is so inflated as to be toilet paper and the DNC "discovers" that there may be some truth to this after all, and if only they had known they could have avoided all of the spending that he "tricked" them into. The spending that will ensure that American's exist in perpetual debt slavery to the private corporation known as the Federal Reserve. Barack Obama exists to be the fall guy for the financial oligarchy.

To steal an analogy, he's like the manager at Burger King - when something is wrong with your order you first complain to the cashier, then make it all the way up to the guy wearing a tie that has no real authority, but whose entire job is to be biatched at so that the franchise owner doesn't have to listen to it.

The central banksters/globalists that opened the doors for him won't hesitate to burn him if they think it will divert attention from them.

tony41454: That because he's terrified someone will bring forth his birth certificate or other documentation proving he's not an American citizen.

Hunter_S_Thompson: tony41454: That because he's terrified someone will bring forth his birth certificate or other documentation proving he's not an American citizen.

I meant:

Hunter_S_Thompson: Hunter_S_Thompson: tony41454: That because he's terrified someone will bring forth his birth certificate or other documentation proving he's not an American citizen.

I meant:

Since it won't farking POST! I'll just say it:

Oh, fark, Not this shiat again.

40 watt range: John McCain was born in Panama. Would we have birthers if he were elected?

I think not.

birthers are racists.

/McCain was born on a US military base.... race card huh? is that the best you got? If so.. you can do better than that tired slur....

I believe he possibly was born in Hawaii. However, I believe there are residency requirements for the birth mother even if she is a US citizen.

Something like if they are under 19 years of age that they have to spend a certain amount of their life in the US before their offspring can be considered natural citizens.

I didn't have time to look up the details related to this again, but saw that nothing along these lines had been mentioned in these comments and wanted to get the idea out there.

How could Barack Obama visit the United States while in Africa?

And why would Kenyans care?

Cat Food Sandwiches: Hoopido: So he's not even going to stop and visit his brother in his dirt floor shack.

Has his hut been upgraded to a shack?

I was unaware his cardboard box had been replaced with a hut.

This shiat has been getting old for quite a while now.

Now now...questiong our leader will get me called a racist

so I'll roll the die for a defence...

and make the claim, "I have black friends"

ah, whew!
that was a close one

IamAwake: the whole "natural born citizen" thing is only there so that the newly formed United States, back in the late 18th century, wouldn't be taken over by British nobility via elections (sortof an anti-democratic measure, don't ya think?). It is so completely far from relevant in the year 2009 that I sincerely wonder WHY THE FARK PEOPLE THINK IT MATTERS WHERE HE WAS BORN.

//caps make it more true, and make me more cool

So.... what you're saying is, by completely mishandling McCain's campaign, the right-wingers deliberately threw the election so they could get Obama elected so they could resolve this little "citizenship" issue and pave the way for a Schwarzenegger Presidency?

Demolition Man. It comes to pass.

zabadu: You realize that by posting the way you do, you come off as a racist republitard. I hope the secret service visit you.

Way to be a democrap. Call the thought police, someone isn't goosestepping like you do.

jdmac: his honkey grandmafark you racist. Mods need to start banning this shiat.