What about those of us who already have anal probes? Will we be grandfathered in?

rikdanger: What about those of us who already have anal probes? Will we be grandfathered in?

back doored actually

I love PA. We have the best laws.

...Anyone know if it's still illegal to take a bath with your goat here?

olapbill: rikdanger: What about those of us who already have anal probes? Will we be grandfathered in?

back doored actually

Aaaand scene.

This is outrag....

Oh, ALIEN anal probes. Nevermind.

I have been implanting microchips under fillings for years.

They will be activated when the time is right.

Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

gotta' get past my glock first.


have a nice day!

I've always considered this an Idea. How about planting one into non violent convicted felons. Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

And if you remove it from your body, you automatically serve the full sentence with an additional 30% of your original sentencing.

This would free up the prison system for the violent criminals.

In other news assault is apparently legal in PA.

ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

Think: Tracking Prisoners.

Phil Herup: I have been implanting microchips under fillings for years.

They will be activated when the time is right.

Shut up Phil, you doc?

Injected into the triceps, the chips have unique 16-digit codes and GPS capabilities that allow nursing homes to find wandering patients.

Viridium patches work just as well, except they can't be used under anti-beaming shields.

Despite the technology's potential usefulness, Sultzbaugh said, some Christian groups liken the identification devices to the "mark of the beast," a Satanic mark described in the Book of Revelation and represented by the number 666.

So we'll just change the number on the chips to 667 and everything will be fine.

pvd021: I've always considered this an Idea. How about planting one into non violent convicted felons. Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

And if you remove it from your body, you automatically serve the full sentence with an additional 30% of your original sentencing.

This would free up the prison system for the violent criminals.

I think that's a terrific plan.

Of course, I'd also make them mandatory for people who can't pass a basic 8th grade civics exam, but that's just me.

UPIA?

no alien anal probes?

So that means that Juan can't stick his burrito up Conchita's coohlo?

/sounds racist to me

The aliens never listen. They will put their probes where they see fit, and that is that.

"We've been coming here for 50 years and performing anal probes, and all that we've learned is that 1 in 10 doesn't really seem to mind." - KITH

There was a Law and Order: Criminal Intent about this once. I think Bob Saget was in it.

olapbill: rikdanger: What about those of us who already have anal probes? Will we be grandfathered in?

back doored actually

Grandfathered, backdoored, whatever.

Either way, there's an old guy with hair in his ears and a speculum in my...well, you get the picture.

I shiat you not, an ex-boss of mine had his kids implanted with chips so he could keep track of what they were up to.

ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

It wouldn't be legal. Surgery that you do not consent to, or, depending on the circumstances, that a reasonable person would not have consented to, is a legal "battery."

But these days it's very hard to sue physicians for anything because of tort reform, and other legal obstacles states have put into place to make it harder to sue them. Moreover, it isn't clear what the patient's economic damages would be in a case like this, so especially with damage caps in place, it probably wouldn't be worth an attorney's time to take this kind of case. Doctors these days can pretty much act with impunity.

As a member of the elytrous state of Pennsylvania I'm just happy the law was not to force chip implants, so this is a step in the right direction compared to our other farked up laws. Now we just need to get beer in the gas stations and we'll be set, drunk and chipless.

Lost Thought 00
ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

Think: Tracking Prisoners.

Ever see that Duracell commercial where the negligent parent is trying to track her son Kevin that wandered off?
Some states proposed this for infants (not sure how far it got) as a way to deter kidnapping from the maternity ward.

PanZom: Now we just need to get beer in the gas stations and we'll be set, drunk and chipless.



Just go buy another gun.

Do you have your required minimum of 10 yet?

Dorf11: "We've been coming here for 50 years and performing anal probes, and all that we've learned is that 1 in 10 doesn't really seem to mind." - KITH

Came here to post this.

Yes I have the required 10 however I'm an atheist so I guess according to the Prez I can't live here.

I have long thought microchipping would be the so-called "Mark of the Beast" associated with the book of Revelations so I'm OK with this.

/Too bad the mark was actually cell phones. :(

strange? I'd say 'hero' tag. For once this bill actually make sense in preventing future attempts at "total information awareness" and other such minor tyrannies..

PanZom: As a member of the elytrous state of Pennsylvania I'm just happy the law was not to force chip implants, so this is a step in the right direction compared to our other farked up laws. Now we just need to get beer in the gas stations and we'll be set, drunk and chipless.

Hear, Hear! our beer laws suck.
The case has interesting implications for children and Alzheimer's patients, who cannot legally give consent. Lots of Americans microchip their pets; I could see an over-anxious parent chipping a child. As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter. Maybe that makes me a fascist. Maybe it makes me honest. Eh.

Microchipping employees, however, as in the case in Mexico-- that's just too Big Brother.

Note to self... rescale.

The Whore Of Mensa: The case has interesting implications for children and Alzheimer's patients, who cannot legally give consent. Lots of Americans microchip their pets; I could see an over-anxious parent chipping a child. As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter. Maybe that makes me a fascist. Maybe it makes me honest. Eh.

Well consent would be given by those that have power of attorney.

Alzheimers patients I would agree with (if the person with power decides to). I would disagree with children though

fernanernie: Ever see that Duracell commercial where the negligent parent is trying to track her son Kevin that wandered off?

Thanks for this... I had to wipe the tears away from laughing so hard.

Seriously folks, keep an eye on your kids. That duracell's gonna die someday and then Kevin will be abducted, it's only a matter of time.

Well there goes my plans for the weekend.

My name is Chip and I have a micro penis and I live in Allentown, so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies...

ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

The Man would like you to believe it's not necessary.

Move along, citizen.

Well consent would be given by those that have power of attorney.

Alzheimers patients I would agree with (if the person with power decides to). I would disagree with children though

It's definitely a slippery slope issue. There's justification to tag patients, children, criminals.... and we all have different places of drawing that line. Of course, you know if the practice were widespread, someone somewhere would use it to abuse privacy.

Hell, I'm a little spooked-out by OnStar in cars... just gives me the willies.

/putting tinfoil hat on/

Well they can treat you real nice.
Or put a traking device,... way down inside.

ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

"Lawmakers" get paid by the word.

This law is a good thing, but ultimately within the next few decades I think most people in the US or the Western World will be chipped, and they'll choose to do it, or be coerced into choosing.

There was a company a few years back that had developed a subcutaneous transponder / RFID supposedly for purposes much like what pvd021 was discussing. On it's surface it's appears to be a good thing. But the idea of a human being having what amounts to a location beacon embedded in their body is well, pretty frightening.

Of course for the types that are already monitoring phone and internet communications, this would be a great time saver. Consider automotive black boxes:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/black_boxes_states.html

I don't know about you, but it seems to me if they're so concerned with people driving over the speed limit, it would be far simpler to put a speed regulator in that garnered it's upper limit from GPS data (my gps displays speed data where available). The only reason NOT to do that is to tax the fark out of people by simply having cars dial home to report that someone is speeding. How much effort that would save!

People will choose to have chips implanted because they won't be able to get health insurance if they don't, or because they won't have to go through a checkout line at the super market. Of course the big downside to this is that if they participate in a protest which DHS considers 'soft terrorism' they'll be easy to scan (not that it matters since > 90% of the populace lives in a "Constitution Free Zone" now anyway: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_highlights_ConstitutionFree_Zone_100_miles_10 22.html http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101473 )

Imagine large scale protests about, well, whatever... And the authorities simply letting them happen and reading everyones RFIDs as they walk down the street. Or not being allowed on an airplane because you participated in a political protest.

So, the real law to pass isn't one that doesn't force people to get chipped, it's one that won't allow the government or any government contractors to READ the chips, install monitoring equipment, etc.

FTA: Josephs said electronic ankle bracelets could keep track of someone in a less-invasive manner.

But for some "murderers, killers, and rapists," ankle bracelets won't do the trick, said State Rep. Dan Moul (R., Adams).

This to the first and it seems to have worked so far to second. I thought we locked those people up for a period of time, so we knew where they were at...

A couple years back there was some company that was working on a chip time card. You'd be able to access secured doors and the time clock by the chip in your arm or hand. The problem would be are you willing to lose your job to avoid getting chipped. It seemed pretty creepy at the time.

Hasn't anyone seen futuristic action movies? The bad guy just uses a small knife and cuts out the chip - which is implanted just under the skin. (My dogs are chipped and it isn't too hard to feel the grain of rice in their shoulders.)

Surely no gitmo terrorists (or any other serious criminal) would ever sacrifice a small cut to remove the chip!

/stupid politicians need to use the internets and get informed

ITfarmer, have you seen Total Recall that thing was way up his nasal cavity and the removal seemed painful and required a huge contraption to get it out.

8string: This law is a good thing, but ultimately within the next few decades I think most people in the US or the Western World will be chipped, and they'll choose to do it, or be coerced into choosing.

It will be sold to the masses as a means of going cashless. We tend to be lazy and convenience-minded, so it's an easy sell. Few will bother to wonder "what if they turn my chip off?"

I've heard a few people liken RFID to the mark of the beast. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. But chipping people sounds pretty crazy as well.

Give them the air, Cohagen!!

one more...

Kuato lives!!

ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

This has been a big concern of the End Timers for quite some time. They think a microchip, especially one implanted in the hand, is the 'mark of the beast' in the book of Revelations that you will need to make any kind of transactions. If you have the mark, you won't get to go to heaven when Jesus returns.

Raging Thespian: UPIA?

Take this out of the case, and stick it up your nose. Don't worry it's self guiding. Just shove real hard.

ITfarmer: Hasn't anyone seen futuristic action movies? The bad guy just uses a small knife and cuts out the chip - which is implanted just under the skin. (My dogs are chipped and it isn't too hard to feel the grain of rice in their shoulders.)

Surely no gitmo terrorists (or any other serious criminal) would ever sacrifice a small cut to remove the chip!

/stupid politicians need to use the internets and get informed

That's why any required chip wouldn't be in the hands/wrists or legs, it would probably be somewhere that isn't very easily accessable for someone to cut out without some effort (like the middle of the back, or inside of the butt cheeks)

Goldeneye007: That's why any required chip wouldn't be in the hands/wrists or legs, it would probably be somewhere that isn't very easily accessable for someone to cut out without some effort (like the middle of the back, or inside of the butt cheeks)

No one puts anything in my ass but me.

phenn: Goldeneye007: That's why any required chip wouldn't be in the hands/wrists or legs, it would probably be somewhere that isn't very easily accessable for someone to cut out without some effort (like the middle of the back, or inside of the butt cheeks)

No one puts anything in my ass but me.

Hey, they're talking about microchips, not beer bottles.

//jus' kiddin

i think it should be on the back of the neck. or base of the skull. Matrix anyone?

phenn: 8string: This law is a good thing, but ultimately within the next few decades I think most people in the US or the Western World will be chipped, and they'll choose to do it, or be coerced into choosing.

It will be sold to the masses as a means of going cashless. We tend to be lazy and convenience-minded, so it's an easy sell. Few will bother to wonder "what if they turn my chip off?"

I've heard a few people liken RFID to the mark of the beast. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. But chipping people sounds pretty crazy as well.

They'll make it sexy and sleek. We're all already carrying location beacons... I love my new iBeacon. The video camera is cool... ;) It'll be the insurance companies and hospitals that will coerce those of us who don't buy the 'convienience' bs into doing it. "You can carry your full medical history on your body", or at least the UUID to find it in the national medical database...

The thing is, there really are *good* uses for this, but humans being humans it'll be used mostly for bad reasons with the good uses being only a facade to dupe most folks. I don't believe in revelations or any of that stuff, but if I do think subcutaneous RFIDs are the mark of the devil. :)

What about a retard? If I lose my retard, I want someone to be able to scan it and get it back to me.

I Must Dissent (new window)

Well, there were those X-Files episodes that included a group of abductees in Allentown, PA who had the chips implanted in their necks. Someone was watching reruns and thought they were real.

don't forget to wrap a wet towel around your head.

I find it strange that this wasn't illegal already.

This is an individual soverienity issue and I suppor these law makers. No conspiracy just right and wrong.

The Whore Of Mensa: PanZom: As a member of the elytrous state of Pennsylvania I'm just happy the law was not to force chip implants, so this is a step in the right direction compared to our other farked up laws. Now we just need to get beer in the gas stations and we'll be set, drunk and chipless.

Hear, Hear! our beer laws suck.
The case has interesting implications for children and Alzheimer's patients, who cannot legally give consent. Lots of Americans microchip their pets; I could see an over-anxious parent chipping a child. As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter. Maybe that makes me a fascist. Maybe it makes me honest. Eh.

Microchipping employees, however, as in the case in Mexico-- that's just too Big Brother.

You scare me. Because you aren't a good caretaker you think that the person should be microchipped?

I support this law, for individual rights reasons.

That said, actually implementing these chips would be a disaster, not only for privacy reasons, but you would also see a rise in the End Timers and alot of radical Christians performing terrorist attacks or at least attempting them against what they will literally see as the Great Satan and his government.

Big Brother is inevitable, because people can't behave.

If they could, we wouldn't need to chip them.

They can't, so we will chip them.

Inevitable.

Raging Thespian: UPIA?

Came for this.

/repeatedly

TheSignPost: Big Brother is inevitable, because people can't behave.

If they could, we wouldn't need to chip them.

They can't, so we will chip them.

Inevitable.

Oh, bullshiat. The government doesn't behave. Let them get their own asses chipped. And, while we're at it, let every jackoff in DC pass a friggin drug test. Dickheads.

strothgar: My name is Chip and I have a micro penis and I live in Allentown, so I'm not getting a kick out of these replies...



/ But are you an ass-bandit ??!!!

TheSignPost: Big Brother is inevitable, because people can't behave.

If they could, we wouldn't need to chip them.

They can't, so we will chip them.

Inevitable.



Inevitable.

phenn: Goldeneye007: That's why any required chip wouldn't be in the hands/wrists or legs, it would probably be somewhere that isn't very easily accessable for someone to cut out without some effort (like the middle of the back, or inside of the butt cheeks)

No one puts anything in my ass but me.

Homo-Phobe !!!

Unavailable for comment.

m2313: I support this law, for individual rights reasons.

That said, actually implementing these chips would be a disaster, not only for privacy reasons, but you would also see a rise in the End Timers and alot of radical Christians performing terrorist attacks or at least attempting them against what they will literally see as the Great Satan and his government.

/So, you agree with the radical Chrisitans!

pvd021: I've always considered this an Idea. How about planting one into non violent convicted felons. Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

And if you remove it from your body, you automatically serve the full sentence with an additional 30% of your original sentencing.

This would free up the prison system for the violent criminals.

Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?

Day_Old_Dutchie: (Leela) Unavailable for comment.

"Damn you Dutchie!"



/beat me to it
//:)

pvd021: Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

Sounds like a good way to make our justice system even lazier, while doing nothing to prevent crime or protect the innocent. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already.

PanZom: As a member of the elytrous state of Pennsylvania

The state of Pennsylvania has hardened forewings?

pvd021: I've always considered this an Idea. How about planting one into non violent convicted felons. Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

That's not how it would work. Why waste the court time.

Cops show up, maybe with a Junior DA in tow, and tell you that they'll drop prosecution for a crime you never knew you committed if you plead guilty and let them chip you.

After a move about 10 years ago I went through a few weeks without an internet connection. I was using the computers at the library. There was a guy who always seemed to be there and we got to talking one day.

Turns out the CIA had implanted a chip in him to control his thoughts. He'd been reading Web sites by other people who had had these chips implanted. He used the library computers so that the CIA could not track his home web use.

He was so normal, other than this delusion. It was like he was calmly telling me that he'd had grown juicy tomatoes with Othro-Gro or something else just as mundane.

Actually, I like the idea of outlawing obvious abuses before they become rampant. Lawmakers usually suffer from a bad case of stabledoor-itis... at least when it comes to benefiting the constituents. When it comes to lining their pockets, however... well, I'm surprised this law doesn't come complete with a rider saying it's okay to circumvent it as long as you, ahem, "contribute" to XYZ's campaign.

Also, count me in with the people who are not nutjob religiots, but who nonetheless would dig out a chip with a butter knife if necessary.

paygun, indeed the state is very bug like you must have never been.
Just kidding I just always felt the little chunk of land that protrudes up to Lake Erie looked like a wing. I'm obviously the only one that thinks that.

Dick_Hertz: So, you agree with the radical Chrisitans!

Yeah, but I'm still at odds with the radical Christians.Chrisitan tradition frowns upon their crazy fundamentalism.

-Thought for sure I'd see Cartman in here...

What? So many posts in an no pic of Cartman's Alien Probe?

OW! My ASS!

If you really don't want the wearer to remove the chip, implant it in such a place where it will cause a lot of collateral damage if you try to remove it. Maybe behind the spine or in one of the folds of the brain.

/I noticed that my newest credit cards have RFID chips in them.
//So does my drivers license and card key for work.
///Slippery slope already started.

Phil Herup: I have been implanting microchips under fillings for years.

They will be activated when the time is right.

Goldeneye007: The Whore Of Mensa: PanZom: As a member of the elytrous state of Pennsylvania I'm just happy the law was not to force chip implants, so this is a step in the right direction compared to our other farked up laws. Now we just need to get beer in the gas stations and we'll be set, drunk and chipless.

Hear, Hear! our beer laws suck.
The case has interesting implications for children and Alzheimer's patients, who cannot legally give consent. Lots of Americans microchip their pets; I could see an over-anxious parent chipping a child. As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter. Maybe that makes me a fascist. Maybe it makes me honest. Eh.

Microchipping employees, however, as in the case in Mexico-- that's just too Big Brother.

You scare me. Because you aren't a good caretaker you think that the person should be microchipped?

Yes. That's exactly what I meant. I figure, if you chip senile adults and little children, you are immediately absolved of any responsibility in caring for them. It's not as if there's any legal or moral ambiguity involved in the practice, or implied in my post.

I'm so glad someone got my message.

Gah, now I can't RFID tag my own kids anymore? As if it wasn't already difficult enough to apply proper inventory control techniques.

Lost Thought 00 Quote 2009-07-03 12:41:10 PM
ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

Think: Tracking Prisoners.


Think RFIDS to track your children for their Safety of course. Think about the children!!!!!!

So, what happens if you have heart failure, slip into a coma, have no relatives that can act as power of attorney, and you need an artificial heart implanted to live?

So, you're like farked, right?

The Whore Of Mensa: As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter.

Kind of a double standard here, eh? When an Alzheimer's sufferer wonders off in to the fields of winter, it is nature's way of saying it's time to go..

If I contracted something like Alzheimer's, I would expect that I be "put to sleep" myself... A decision made before my mind is too far gone and to be carried out. Unfortunately "society" frowns on this.

/The slope gets slipperier.

Helen_Arigby: Also, count me in with the people who are not nutjob religiots, but who nonetheless would dig out a chip with a butter knife if necessary.

First, I would try powerful magnets and localized electric shocks. These would be far less painful than the butter knife surgery and if they don't work, you could always fall back on the butter knife.

Dinjiin: So, what happens if you have heart failure, slip into a coma, have no relatives that can act as power of attorney, and you need an artificial heart implanted to live?

So, you're like farked, right?

If you actually don't have any relatives (not just that can't be reached quickly) and all that, yeah, you're farked. A hospital isn't going to go that far out (artificials are still experimental, right?) without any hope of consent. Or payment.

Helen_Arigby: Also, count me in with the people who are not nutjob religiots, but who nonetheless would dig out a chip with a butter knife if necessary.

Butter knife bad. Definitely want sharpness here. Definitely.

Given that sub-cutaneous RFID implants have been suggested for prisoners, sex offenders, etc with varying degrees of seriousness, this is not necessarily a bad law so much as just a cautious one.

Dinjiin: So, what happens if you have heart failure, slip into a coma, have no relatives that can act as power of attorney, and you need an artificial heart implanted to live?

So, you're like farked, right?

I am actually one of those people, more or less. And yes I would be farked. It's a pain to fill out paperwork when you don't have much to put down for next of kin. But what the fark. Slipping in to a coma may not be all that bad. And how would RFID implants help? It is most likely that you would be carrying around some sort of ID like a license or credit card anyway.

How exactly is implanting a foreign object into someone without consent not already covered by a law in Pennsylvania? Depending on the circumstance, It would have to be Assault, Medical Malpractice, Rape, etc. Right?

mizchief: How exactly is implanting a foreign object into someone without consent not already covered by a law in Pennsylvania? Depending on the circumstance, It would have to be Assault, Medical Malpractice, Rape, etc. Right?

The only purpose the law serves is to allow the politicians to claim they have protected you from some new danger. It has no real affect on anyone competent.

The only people affected are the mental incompetents. Their guardian no longer has the option of chipping them. Since they are incompetent, their consent does not count.

Haven't read the Pennsylvania law, but Missouri is trying to pass something similar to prevent employers from requiring chips as a condition of employment.

The whole thing is a nightmare scenario, anyway. Read about Britain's RFID-enabled cards for foreigners and the massive security problems they're having with those. Now, imagine having one of those, but under your skin, 24/7.

IMHO, the law wasn't broad enough. It should have blanketed any type of device which tracks ones movements without their knowledge.

But who am I kidding... It's not a state or federal governments we need to worry about. It's those kooky guys over at Google. (my location within six feet? Damn, that's some scary shiat)

Danielsan: ArthGuinness: Is this law necessary? Why would the default legality of this actually be true?

This has been a big concern of the End Timers for quite some time. They think a microchip, especially one implanted in the hand, is the 'mark of the beast' in the book of Revelations that you will need to make any kind of transactions. If you have the mark, you won't get to go to heaven when Jesus returns.

Of course this law is still worthless as it will be overturned by the anti-christ.

Relatively Obscure: Phil Herup: I have been implanting microchips under fillings for years.

They will be activated when the time is right.



WIN!

A poison tooth. The Baron will want to gloat over you.

Wow

I've yet to see an implantable RFID capable of receiving a GPS signal, and then transmitting the location information back to the satellite. Or 100 yards, for that matter.

Folks, the fact is, a large majority of you already have a "beacon" on you already. Some credit cards, all cellphones, bluetooth headsets, many car keys, all of these carry identifiable broadcast signatures that a pretty (or in some cases, completely) unique.

Are there privacy concerns with this technology? Hell yeah, maybe as much as the privacy concerns regarding personal computers. That industry has done extremely well addressing the privacy concerns there /sarcasm

People need to do what they can to maintain their privacy, and quit reacting in a knee-jerk fashion. Someone wants to track you now through a radio beacon, chances are you've already given them the opportunity to do so. They're not going to have to insidiously implant a chip into you to do so.

These implants have a pretty limited range, even with really nice (large) antennas.

Have fun with your paranoia...

A co-worker regaled me with a (possibly apocryphal) story yesterday of a friend who was eating at an Asian restaurant in the Pittsburgh area, only to find something sharp and hard in his food - a microchip.


/call it an unofficial start to caturday

If it could be tracked by satellite, it would be good for people who fear being kidnapped. Or those doing risky activities possibly requiring a rescue, solo sailors, for example.

If this was the case, then don't you think people would implant the $60 chip instead of spending $400 on an EPIRB (A locator beacon) when they're sailing? Hell, don't you think people would just carry the $60 microchip in their pocket?

What if we implant a microchip into a fetus?

GAME OVER!

"Injected into the triceps, the chips have unique 16-digit codes and GPS capabilities that allow nursing homes to find wandering patients."

Sigh. No,no they don't.

This particular piece of tripe was accidentally promulgated by some marketing wonk at Verichip 5 years ago, when a very poorly worded press release was issued that could, with a bit of effort, be read that way.

What the system actually is, is a jelly-bean Verichip serial number implant, with an armband interrogator that goes to a belt-mounted GSM/GPS unit. The entire "tracking" thing is in the belt unit, which reads GPS coordinates and phones them in, along with the serial number of the implant. You could actually do without the implant but then it wouldn't be "chippy". I guess it also lets you know if Gramps pulls the thing off. But the implant in no way has GPS capabilities, nor can it be "tracked".

"Trackable GPS implants" are a technical insanity for several reasons.

pvd021: Their choice would be, serve 10 years in jail, or have this microchip embedded in you and be tracked for 10 years. This way if a crime were ever to occur, a gps system would either prove or disprove that they were even present at future crime scenes.

Well, no. You can't track "microchips". And I'm sort of puzzled as to how a GPS system would prove they were present or absent anywhere, unless they were packing it around. GPS just provides timing information that allows a receiver to determine its location. It doesn't "track" receivers.

Nor do implants have GPS capability.

Clawed Le Mew: I shiat you not, an ex-boss of mine had his kids implanted with chips so he could keep track of what they were up to.

You shiat me yes.

The Whore Of Mensa: As the grandchild of an Alzheimer's sufferer, I do kind of like the idea of chipping them... sure, seems like a terrible invasion of privacy, until Grandpa wanders off in the fields in the dead of winter. Maybe that makes me a fascist. Maybe it makes me honest. Eh.

Don't worry, it doesn't work that way. You could, however, buy them a GPS/GSM collar, or shoes.

opiumpoopy: The Man would like you to believe it's not necessary.

It isn't. At least not from a tracking sort of point of view.

8string: There was a company a few years back that had developed a subcutaneous transponder / RFID supposedly for purposes much like what pvd021 was discussing. On it's surface it's appears to be a good thing. But the idea of a human being having what amounts to a location beacon embedded in their body is well, pretty frightening.

I'd bet not. There are a LOT of reasons why this doesn't work well - we worked through a lot of them on different contracts.

It would be interesting if you could find the article.

The biggest issues are two - most RFID is not self-powered, so it's pretty damned close to impossible for it to be running any high powered logic and a receiver for GPS. The RFID that is self-powered requires a battery. A big honking battery. Other issues are - you're a conductive sack of electrolytes. You are a very big absorber of RF for a very wide range of frequencies. Especially the frequencies that are short enough to implant a transponder for - the antenna size is very relevant to transmit efficiency. You have some "windows" in that absorption curve but they're all in the 400MHz range, which still has a relatively big antenna. Large medical implants (insulin pumps, etc) can use this because they have enough size to tote the antenna. Nevertheless, the path loss is still egregious and the range is quite short.

Small implants do NOT have the size for the battery or antenna they'd need. The way a Verichip works is by magnetic flux, it's an h-field device. This gets you around the antenna size issue, which is why they're small, but it has a dramatic impact on both the practical and physically possible range. Generally, about 10cm. Not the sort of thing you can "track" and it's definitely not a "beacon".

xuanzhiyouxuan: First, I would try powerful magnets and localized electric shocks.

Not that you have anything to worry about, but that wouldn't work. A static magnetic field does bupkis. Nearly all implants are h-field devices, and have no external antenna or connections, and are in glass casings, thus you could electrocute yourself without affecting them.

phyrkrakr: Read about Britain's RFID-enabled cards for foreigners and the massive security problems they're having with those. Now, imagine having one of those, but under your skin, 24/7.

Then imagine having it under your skin, and not doing anything. Ow.

E-field devices don't work as implants.