Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when China cuts prices, and the trade wars begin, and the value of the dollar tanks. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' China right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best offer, pal. I can take it."

It's all in the refrexes.

God i love that movie. Cheesy, campy.. and it gave us Mortal Kombat.

We've already got "stimulus" spending, bailouts and a bloated money supply. Might as well add a trade war, too. Politicians can't get reelected unless they have problems to solve, and the bigger the problem, the better.

I'm a chargin' ma lazor!!

You were not put on this earth to "get it", Mr. Geithner.

Kyro: Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when China cuts prices, and the trade wars begin, and the value of the dollar tanks. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' China right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best offer, pal. I can take it."

When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."

I'm an avid free-trader but a single 421 determination isn't going to start a "trade war" unless China wants one anyway. And it might show a little spine, something that was missing from Bush's China policy and Obama's China policy to date. I say make the finding.

Like US goods have anything like free access to Chinese markets. Of course, we're the debtor nation, so we can't complain much.

Great movie, but I doubt China wants a trade war. They are making too much money off of us.

USA...YOU PISS ME OFF TO NO END !

a trade war? are we going to import Mexican made goods and sell them to the Commies?

There will be no trade war. What we have now helps the politicians on both sides.

If there is a trade war, they will win.

Dr.Knockboots: God i love that movie. Cheesy, campy.. and it gave us Mortal Kombat.

The last 30 minutes of the movie is amazingly awesome, regardless of whether you are watching it sober, drunk, high or straight.

/James Hong FTW!

We're so pissed at small-minded US protectionism that we in Canada are going to sell everything to China instead.

Buy USA? Fine.
Buy your own lumber and clean water and fresh air and quality bud.

See how that goes.

GaryPDX: If there is a trade war, they will win.

You know, heres the thing. They won't. What do they export that we can't get from somewhere else? yeah yeah, our debt. They are already slowing down their purchase of it, and I have no doubt it will stop soon.

And in the end to paraphrase one person said "if you owe the bank 10 thousand, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 10 billion-they have a problem"

I still think Wang Chi is Wind, the fourth Storm. There is evidence in the movie that supports this theory but I can't recall any of it right now...

Oh well, back to the Hell of the Upside Down Sinners.

GaryPDX: If there is a trade war, I hope they they will win so I'm right about something once in my life.

FTFY

Does this remind anyone else of the Washington attitude toward the USSR circa 1973-1979? "Oh, we'll never compete with them, we just need to keep the peace at any price." I'm not saying perestroika and glasnost turned out perfectly. But the world is not a parking lot 25 years later, and that's gotta count for something.

Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Deficit, taxes, all that kind of thing!

Greywar:

And in the end to paraphrase one person said "if you owe the bank 10 thousand, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 10 billion-they have a problem"


"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
-J. Paul Getty
Oilman, philanthropist, and reported total dick.

This quote is why they need us more than we need them. They are holding $1T+ of US Treasuries that could go all subprime on them with a flick of a switch (of the printing presses in the basement of the Fed).

hunterath: Greywar:

And in the end to paraphrase one person said "if you owe the bank 10 thousand, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 10 billion-they have a problem"


"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
-J. Paul Getty
Oilman, philanthropist, and reported total dick.

This quote is why they need us more than we need them. They are holding $1T+ of US Treasuries that could go all subprime on them with a flick of a switch (of the printing presses in the basement of the Fed).

Cute analysis, except for the fact they don't need the money the US owes them. The EU imports more of their goods than the US does, they have a huge population that could earn and spend more. Even if the US stops all trade with China they will still keep on making massive amounts of money, and selling all the debt they have will sink the US dollar value so that the US won't be able to import a thing from any country. How is the US population going to cope with no more flatscreen TVs, computers, fancy telephones, cheap clothing?

GaryPDX: If there is a trade war, they will win.

So called "trade wars" often don't have any clear winners or losers - often just losers.

Indeed!

What's going to be the first salvo, selling them the White House?

Who survives the burning blade?

mrEdude: We're so pissed at small-minded US protectionism that we in Canada are going to sell everything to China instead.

Buy USA? Fine.
Buy your own lumber and clean water and fresh air and quality bud.

See how that goes.

Are you guys fresh out of Colin Mochries and Ryan Stileses?

I know more than you:

Cute analysis, except for the fact they don't need the money the US owes them. The EU imports more of their goods than the US does, they have a huge population that could earn and spend more. Even if the US stops all trade with China they will still keep on making massive amounts of money, and selling all the debt they have will sink the US dollar value so that the US won't be able to import a thing from any country. How is the US population going to cope with no more flatscreen TVs, computers, fancy telephones, cheap clothing?

We'd just return to making all that stuff at home. The decreased trade would probably shrink the economy as a whole, but our manufacturering workers would probably love that situation.

Thoguh: I know more than you:

Cute analysis, except for the fact they don't need the money the US owes them. The EU imports more of their goods than the US does, they have a huge population that could earn and spend more. Even if the US stops all trade with China they will still keep on making massive amounts of money, and selling all the debt they have will sink the US dollar value so that the US won't be able to import a thing from any country. How is the US population going to cope with no more flatscreen TVs, computers, fancy telephones, cheap clothing?

We'd just return to making all that stuff at home. The decreased trade would probably shrink the economy as a whole, but our manufacturering workers would probably love that situation.

I'd take a manufacturing job anyday over retail.

Your manufacturing workers would also want at least 20 times as much money for the same job. $10,000 iPhones? $20,000 TVs? Not much market for those in a country with a ruined economy, which means no jobs to make them.

Will this trade war include the black blood of the earth?

Came for the Kim Cattrall pics, leaving disappointed...

BTILC is one of my favorites, not just because of her

We'd better make sure our minds and spirits aren't going north-south. That'll screw up the whole bottle-cutting enterprise.

What were we talking about?

I know more than you: Your manufacturing workers would also want at least 20 times as much money for the same job. $10,000 iPhones? $20,000 TVs?

Do cars manufactured in the U.S. cost 20x what similar cars made in China or Mexico cost?

We've made TVs and VCRs before, I'm betting we can make LCDs and Blu Rays. We can treat their patents the same way they treat ours. We can go back to having St. Louis being the shoe capital, and bring back the New York City garment district. We have 10+% unemployment in many places and a lot of empty factories.

It'll suck for 5-10 years, but in the end we'll be in a better place.

hunterath: This quote is why they need us more than we need them. They are holding $1T+ of US Treasuries that could go all subprime on them with a flick of a switch (of the printing presses in the basement of the Fed).

Answer me this:

If the Chinese are worried about taking a loss on $1 Trillion, why are they going to compound their problems by buying another 2-3 trillion. It's throwing good money after bad. It's the worst thing a person can do, be it someone with a POS car, a broken on Wall Street, or a central bank.

On another note, China has been significantly increasing their stockpiles of gold and other resources.

I know more than you: Cute analysis, except for the fact they don't need the money the US owes them. The EU imports more of their goods than the US does, they have a huge population that could earn and spend more. Even if the US stops all trade with China they will still keep on making massive amounts of money, and selling all the debt they have will sink the US dollar value so that the US won't be able to import a thing from any country. How is the US population going to cope with no more flatscreen TVs, computers, fancy telephones, cheap clothing?

THIS. The Chinese have been suppressing the value of their currency for years by pegging it to the dollar. If severed the link between the Yuan and the dollar, the Yuan would skyrocket. Chinese consumers would be able to suddenly afford all the oil we had been consuming, they will be able to afford the products that they had been sending us.

Suddenly that $.42 an hour that Chinese worker makes would become the equivilant of $25 an hour.

It's true that we have a gun to China's head. The problem is that they are starting to figure out that the gun is empty. What are we going to do? Attack them when they float the Yuan and our currency falls like a lead brick?

Thoguh: We'd just return to making all that stuff at home.

With what? We have no industry to produce those things. (Yes we have some, but nowhere remotely close to what is needed.) We don't have the capital to invest in industry. We have nothing but our paper currency.

I know more than you: Your manufacturing workers would also want at least 20 times as much money for the same job. $10,000 iPhones? $20,000 TVs? Not much market for those in a country with a ruined economy, which means no jobs to make them.

Hint... the actual marginal labor costs in a Chinese factory is barely a rounding error in the street price of those products. It could well go up 20 times, but that would be up from $5 to $100.

I know more than you: hunterath: Greywar:

And in the end to paraphrase one person said "if you owe the bank 10 thousand, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 10 billion-they have a problem"


"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."
-J. Paul Getty
Oilman, philanthropist, and reported total dick.

This quote is why they need us more than we need them. They are holding $1T+ of US Treasuries that could go all subprime on them with a flick of a switch (of the printing presses in the basement of the Fed).

Cute analysis, except for the fact they don't need the money the US owes them. The EU imports more of their goods than the US does, they have a huge population that could earn and spend more. Even if the US stops all trade with China they will still keep on making massive amounts of money, and selling all the debt they have will sink the US dollar value so that the US won't be able to import a thing from any country. How is the US population going to cope with no more flatscreen TVs, computers, fancy telephones, cheap clothing?

The point is that such a mssive reorganization of the world economy would be catastrophic for all parties and neither the Chinese nor the US is stupid enough to pull that trigger.

You can drink from the river, but you cannot dam the river without destroying it.

just stock up on green contact lenses and hookers. You'll own china in no time.

At the end of the day we produce enough food to feed ourselves - we have sufficient technology to produce anything - even if it is not cost competitive at this time.

What we do NOT do is produce enough energy for ourselves - THIS is our farking Achilles heel - solve that problem and at the end of the day we could disengage completely from the world economy and not fail as a country - it might not be pleasant and there are a great many things we'd miss but it would be doable (not suggesting we do this mind you - its just that threats become empty when you understand you really can go it alone.)

Stile4aly: The point is that such a mssive reorganization of the world economy would be catastrophic for all parties and neither the Chinese nor the US is stupid enough to pull that trigger.

No, it would be catastrophic for the US.

It would most certainly hurt China in the short run while the economy retooled to stop producing goods for American and start producing goods for their own citizens, who are going to see the purchasing power of their wages rise when the dollar falls, and the rest of the world. They have the industry, we do not. Sure we have allot of intellectual assets, but that is not enough to support our phony economy.

In the long run, they are better off without us. We do not pay. You pay for imports with exports and we do not export enough, we run money off a printing press and hand it to the Chinese for their stuff and say it is an even trade.

fender12: I still think Wang Chi is Wind, the fourth Storm. There is evidence in the movie that supports this theory but I can't recall any of it right now...

Oh well, back to the Hell of the Upside Down Sinners.

I thought there were only 3 storms?

Oh, and James Hong and Victor Wong as enemies in the same movie is like Al Pacino and Deniro in Heat to me

Fizpez: At the end of the day we produce enough food to feed ourselves - we have sufficient technology to produce anything - even if it is not cost competitive at this time.

What we do NOT do is produce enough energy for ourselves - THIS is our farking Achilles heel - solve that problem and at the end of the day we could disengage completely from the world economy and not fail as a country - it might not be pleasant and there are a great many things we'd miss but it would be doable (not suggesting we do this mind you - its just that threats become empty when you understand you really can go it alone.)

We do produce enough energy for ourselves. Coal, hydro, nuke, gas, renewable, and even a fair bit of petroleum. What we don't do is produce enough energy to keep up our post-war happy motoring society up (it's not sustainable regardless of trade). But, we have enough energy to get us around (by other means), harvest our crops, keep us warm, and keep the lights on. I'd take that and our ability to feed ourselves over most of the world's predicament in a return to autarky scenario.

Lawnchair: What we don't do is produce enough energy to keep up our post-war happy motoring society up (it's not sustainable regardless of trade).

We have the capability to, but it's cheaper to buy on the world market. Our shale reserves dwarf global liquid crude oil reserves by far, and our coal reserves are the biggest in the world I believe. Both can be utilized for transportation, but they cost more, are less efficient, and/or are dirtier.

We're going to have a trade war with China.

I thought we were already having a trade war with China. I thought it had been going on since the eighties.

If we are truly energy independent, ExxonMobil will never make record profits. It's not OPEC we need to be independent from. It's John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil.

We busted up the oil trusts before. We can do it again. If we don't the middle class is doomed.

TheGreatGazoo: We can go back to having St. Louis being the shoe capital

This would be nice. It would get the teeny-boppers out of the malls- just because we move production back doesn't mean we have to make the kids quit making them.

Crosshair: No, it would be catastrophic for the US.

It would most certainly hurt China in the short run while the economy retooled to stop producing goods for American and start producing goods for their own citizens, who are going to see the purchasing power of their wages rise when the dollar falls, and the rest of the world. They have the industry, we do not. Sure we have allot of intellectual assets, but that is not enough to support our phony economy.

In the long run, they are better off without us. We do not pay. You pay for imports with exports and we do not export enough, we run money off a printing press and hand it to the Chinese for their stuff and say it is an even trade.

People don't seem to realize that the Chinese are keeping their currency valued artifically low. If the US defaults on Chinese debt (and wow, what a disaster that will be), China will be just fine after an initial downturn. They will decouple their currency from the dollar and internationally they'll be just fine.

China has been doing the right thing *FOR CHINA* as far as monetary policy is concerned. Their policies suck for us (the US), but I can't blame them for looking out for their own interests.

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt (new window)

$763 billion (as of april) and counting...