Why? The Kindle has text-to-speech.

Yes how dare they recommend easily-interfaced-with-text-to-speech books.

I don't see the problem.

my future's so bright i've got to wear shades

It's sad some people are blind, but the gigantic majority of people aren't. It makes sense to cater to the extreme mass and then adapt for the rest. This lawsuit is bullshait.

"I issue a challenge to those of you who are commenting against our efforts to attain greater accessibility. Close your eyes or put on a blindfold for a few hours. Imagine how you would want to be treated if that condition were permanent. Would you want to be excluded from society or included? How would you feel if your spouse, daughter or son were blind or visually impaired? Wouldn't you want to see that they be afforded the same opportunities, wherever possible, as sighted people? Come on, my friends, think outside the box. I am available for any and all constructive dialogue by e-mail at e­ditorlanruo­jss­e­ccad­ni­l­b­co­m.

Best regards,

Darrell Shandrow
Accessibility Evangelist and ASU Cronkite School of Journalism Student
BlindAccessJournal.com"



This is like me saying (I'm 6'5"), Imagine if you would, if all shirts you go to buy were too short. Imagine how unfair it is that clothing manufacturers cater to the 5'9" man. Imagine how you'd feel being excluded.

Still Bullshiat.

Yup, complete BS. The Kindle, as mentioned, has excellent text-to-speech and students I would image are still free to buy the books they need in braille as well. The lawsuit makes no sense.

FTA
"The groups say the Kindle has text-to-speech technology that reads books aloud to blind students, but that the device's menus do not offer a way for blind students to purchase books, select a book to read, or even to activate the text-to-speech feature"

So, basically, they're going to need help, maybe the first couple of times until they get it down. Hmmm, sort of like how they'll need help navigating the entire college? I say we sue colleges over having large, expansive campuses, it's too hard for blind people to find their way.

I actually RTA, and the issue is that the Kindle is, apparently, not well-suited to the blind beyond text-to-speech. It's difficult for them to search for books, pick them out, etc.

So, yeah. Not quite so simple.

Katolu: I don't see the problem.

I feel what you did there...

ASU....the Harvard of date rape

ScouserDuck: ASU....the Harvard of date rape

ouch.

As somebody who used to tutor a blind student, replies, kick, yada yada... but seriously, call me when their text-to-speech thing can correctly handle a chemistry textbook.

Seriously, I'd be interested cause the dead tree versions aren't much better.

Also, when I can use a kindle to read pdfs downloaded from websites (like academic journals), I'd be all over that.

Kar98: Why? The Kindle has text-to-speech.

But it's not easy for the blind to search and stuff, which is their problem.

Having dealt with a few agencies for the blind in the past some of them are lawsuit happy. 5 years ago one of the places I worked for had a blind employee who needed a computer. Fine, we'll order one and install JAWS on it. Oh no, the local blind agency said we had to purchase it from them. A 1200.00 Gateway from them? 2500.00 - not including software but included setup. I gave the user one of my PCs, installed JAWS on it, she was happy. Then the blind agency goons showed up and there was no tag on the PC that said it came from the computer place that the blind agency preferred. "Can't have that, it's not compatible". IT'S THE SAME MACHINE. So...they made a big stink. The same freaking computer except for the braille tag on the front of it.

They contacted the state, who leaned on me. I had a 5k budget...I wasn't going to piss 1/2 of it away on 1 PC and told them so. They barked up the food chain and before I knew it the blind school in the state was getting involved. We ended up having to buy her PC from the blind agency.

3 months later the user was fired for falsifying reports on patients. Then she had the nerve to ask for her PC back....and the blind agency threatened to file a lawsuit to get it back.

Donnchadha: As somebody who used to tutor a blind student, replies, kick, yada yada... but seriously, call me when their text-to-speech thing can correctly handle a chemistry textbook.

Seriously, I'd be interested cause the dead tree versions aren't much better.

Also, when I can use a kindle to read pdfs downloaded from websites (like academic journals), I'd be all over that.

Best get all over it, then. Kindle DX Native PDF Support. (new window)

Ask: Yes how dare they recommend easily-interfaced-with-text-to-speech books.

And how is that interface operated?

A touch screen? For someone who is blind.

Ashelth: Ask: Yes how dare they recommend easily-interfaced-with-text-to-speech books.

And how is that interface operated?

A touch screen? For someone who is blind.

No is touchscreen. Is tiny scroll wheel and little keyboard.

Are any of the blind people at ASU hot girls?

Crudbucket: Donnchadha: As somebody who used to tutor a blind student, replies, kick, yada yada... but seriously, call me when their text-to-speech thing can correctly handle a chemistry textbook.

Seriously, I'd be interested cause the dead tree versions aren't much better.

Also, when I can use a kindle to read pdfs downloaded from websites (like academic journals), I'd be all over that.

Best get all over it, then. Kindle DX Native PDF Support. (new window)

So I can go to the journal's website, on the kindle, and just open files there like I was using a normal web browser? And these pdfs are readable right? So I can zoom in on the 8.5"x11" pdf page instead of having it only fit to a 6" screen?

/I know, I'm asking too much
//I'd also need VPN access for authorization to the websites

... because we all know that the stacks of books available in the campus book store all offer native braille support right?

What? They already have to use specilized equipment? Oh gee..

Donnchadha: Crudbucket: Donnchadha: As somebody who used to tutor a blind student, replies, kick, yada yada... but seriously, call me when their text-to-speech thing can correctly handle a chemistry textbook.

Seriously, I'd be interested cause the dead tree versions aren't much better.

Also, when I can use a kindle to read pdfs downloaded from websites (like academic journals), I'd be all over that.

Best get all over it, then. Kindle DX Native PDF Support. (new window)

So I can go to the journal's website, on the kindle, and just open files there like I was using a normal web browser? And these pdfs are readable right? So I can zoom in on the 8.5"x11" pdf page instead of having it only fit to a 6" screen?

/I know, I'm asking too much
//I'd also need VPN access for authorization to the websites

From what I understand, you have to transfer the PDFs over a USB connection.

Although you cannot click on the hotlinks if the PDF has a table of contents, you can post your own bookmarks.

Also, you cannot zoom in on PDF text, but the Kindle DX has a 9.7" screen, rather than the 6" of the regular Kindles.



/I only know anything about this because I've spent the last couple months reading up on it and trying to talk myself out of buying one. They're getting cooler features, but it's not quite good enough yet for me to drop five bills on.

Crudbucket: /I only know anything about this because I've spent the last couple months reading up on it and trying to talk myself out of buying one. They're getting cooler features, but it's not quite good enough yet for me to drop five bills on.

Yeah I could give a shiat about this article I just want to hear people debate about the kindle so I can decide if I want one.

Crudbucket: From what I understand, you have to transfer the PDFs over a USB connection.

Although you cannot click on the hotlinks if the PDF has a table of contents, you can post your own bookmarks.

Also, you cannot zoom in on PDF text, but the Kindle DX has a 9.7" screen, rather than the 6" of the regular Kindles.



/I only know anything about this because I've spent the last couple months reading up on it and trying to talk myself out of buying one. They're getting cooler features, but it's not quite good enough yet for me to drop five bills on.

So that's only like a 70% scaling -- which puts it right about where I want to see one in action before I'd decide. (No brick and mortar stores carry them and have demo models, right?) Although, if that one is $500, it'd probably have to be really good. I'd bet the next generation would fix some of these problems and possibly be cheaper too (at least eventually).

Ashelth: Ask: Yes how dare they recommend easily-interfaced-with-text-to-speech books.

And how is that interface operated?

A touch screen? For someone who is blind.

I've been waiting for Apple to get sued by the blind for the iphone - since it would be unusable for them


Psychomancer: It's sad some people are blind, but the gigantic majority of people aren't. It makes sense to cater to the extreme mass and then adapt for the rest. This lawsuit is bullshait.

Unfortunately the ADA disagrees with you.

Wait...how did blind people read their textbooks in the first place? Do they make Braille textbooks? Can't they just keep buying those?

Fano: Unfortunately the ADA disagrees with you.

the ADA only requires reasonable accommodation in employment and public accommodations. some things are explicitly defined as such, including ramps and elevator access on new buildings or buildings undergoing substantial renovation.

As long as the blind students purchase a hard copy of the book, their Disability Services Counselor should be able to get any textbook for them in electronic format (MS Word, PDF) that can be used with their normal PC. At no cost to the student.

99% of books are available from the publisher for educational disability useage.

/more you know
//former college disability counselor

coachwdb: As long as the blind students purchase a hard copy of the book, their Disability Services Counselor should be able to get any textbook for them in electronic format (MS Word, PDF) that can be used with their normal PC. At no cost to the student.

99% of books are available from the publisher for educational disability useage.

/more you know
//former college disability counselor

As somebody who personally typed up an organic chemistry textbook for a blind student, I assume I just managed to find that 1%? Of course, I still spent 8+ hours a week with her building models to describe all the figures and reaction schemes -- you just can't type that up at all.

/Sweet, more kicks!

Donnchadha

I've typed them too. I completely agree that somethings are unbelievably hard to translate, Organic being the worst (even for seeing students).

We would cassette tape/MP3 the equations (and answers) and braille label those. Saves time and reads better. Screen readers still have a ways to go in the math/chem dept.

Fano: Ashelth: Ask: Yes how dare they recommend easily-interfaced-with-text-to-speech books.

And how is that interface operated?

A touch screen? For someone who is blind.

I've been waiting for Apple to get sued by the blind for the iphone - since it would be unusable for them


Psychomancer: It's sad some people are blind, but the gigantic majority of people aren't. It makes sense to cater to the extreme mass and then adapt for the rest. This lawsuit is bullshait.

Unfortunately the ADA disagrees with you.

The ADA wants us all to be disabled!

Once the publishers figure out that they can with one swipe eliminate the used book market, and the jobs in every printing plant, you will see electronic books with heavy DRM being required at all the major universities. Amazon will be right there with with their solution. The blind will be forced to use text to speech as there will be no other choice.

Crudbucket: /I only know anything about this because I've spent the last couple months reading up on it and trying to talk myself out of buying one. They're getting cooler features, but it's not quite good enough yet for me to drop five bills on.

Wow, either Jules Verne is a giant or Mark Twain is a runt!

Kar98: Why? The Kindle has text-to-speech.

But for how long?

The Authors Guild pulls a RIAA. Decides the text-to-speech feature of the new Kindle infringes on audiobook copyrights

Donnchadha: coachwdb: As long as the blind students purchase a hard copy of the book, their Disability Services Counselor should be able to get any textbook for them in electronic format (MS Word, PDF) that can be used with their normal PC. At no cost to the student.

99% of books are available from the publisher for educational disability useage.

/more you know
//former college disability counselor

As somebody who personally typed up an organic chemistry textbook for a blind student, I assume I just managed to find that 1%? Of course, I still spent 8+ hours a week with her building models to describe all the figures and reaction schemes -- you just can't type that up at all.

/Sweet, more kicks!

THANK YOU!

I love my Kindle 2. I just finished reading "A Dirty Job" on it, and am considering starting one of the classics that I haven't read in a long time, as they're all free on the Kindle, and mine's loaded with them.

If you're a reader-- and I mean books, not manga-- then you'll like it. It does eventually pay for itself, and it's convenient as hell to bring a stack of books with you wherever you go, or order a new one via whispernet. It's even handy to check web pages, email, etc. when you're out of WiFi range (especially if you're not a smart phone user).

The text-to-speech works well. I can't buy that blind students would have a problem with it once it's activated... but wouldn't blind students get their own braille edition anyway? I mean, it's not like a standard textbook is any more friendly to the blind than a Kindle!

Lehk: the ADA only requires reasonable accommodation in employment and public accommodations.


If by "reasonable accommodation" you mean "a book of building codes and regulations thicker than your dick is long, in which violation of any of them my a mere fraction of an inch leaves you open for thousands upon thousands of dollars in immediate damages with no warning or chance for remediation" then yes. It's quite reasonable.

/G.dad's oil logging company was threatened with a lawsuit for not inventing a position that could be worked by someone in a wheelchair when they applied
//ADA lawyers actually suggested we "make an opening" by firing the employee working the one desk position that could have been done on wheels

You could just as easily make a Braille kindle than a regular kindle for reading text.

Lamune_Baba:
If by "reasonable accommodation" you mean "a book of building codes and regulations thicker than your dick is long, in which violation of any of them my a mere fraction of an inch leaves you open for thousands upon thousands of dollars in immediate damages with no warning or chance for remediation" then yes. It's quite reasonable.

In what way is that book of building codes any different from all the other ones? I know the situation you mention about "immediate damages with no warning" applies in some other building code situations, so don't see what this has to do with the ADA.

/G.dad's oil logging company was threatened with a lawsuit for not inventing a position that could be worked by someone in a wheelchair when they applied
//ADA lawyers actually suggested we "make an opening" by firing the employee working the one desk position that could have been done on wheels

Anyone can be "threatened" with a lawsuit for anything. I've threatened a few, and been threatened myself. It's the American way.

And your lawyer story is the same sort of thing. That's what lawyers are like. They aren't supposed to be reasonable or impartial. They're paid to fight for their side.

I don't see that your examples have anything to do with ADA or disabled people. They strike me as "business as usual in America": Huge stacks of stupid regulations, biased to help huge companies and hurt small ones, inconsistently enforced by threats from greedy lawyers. Doesn't matter if the topic is ADA or auto insurance, IMO it's all the same crap.

TheShavingofOccam123: You could just as easily make a Braille kindle than a regular kindle for reading text.



These types of devices are already very common, but I don't know if they're compatible with the kindle file types. It's essentially a text editor with plastic braille dots that raise and lower instead of a screen.

Blind people oughtta remember that if we actually let natural selection take its course they'd all be under buses or at the bottom of cliffs.

It's only because we choose to help them that they get to exist at all, and they better not farking forget it.

Psychomancer: "I issue a challenge to those of you who are commenting against our efforts to attain greater accessibility. Close your eyes or put on a blindfold for a few hours. Imagine how you would want to be treated if that condition were permanent. Would you want to be excluded from society or included? How would you feel if your spouse, daughter or son were blind or visually impaired? Wouldn't you want to see that they be afforded the same opportunities, wherever possible, as sighted people? Come on, my friends, think outside the box. I am available for any and all constructive dialogue by e-mail at editorlanruojsseccadnilbcom.

Best regards,

Darrell Shandrow
Accessibility Evangelist and ASU Cronkite School of Journalism Student
BlindAccessJournal.com"



This is like me saying (I'm 6'5"), Imagine if you would, if all shirts you go to buy were too short. Imagine how unfair it is that clothing manufacturers cater to the 5'9" man. Imagine how you'd feel being excluded.

Still Bullshiat.

I know exactly how you feel. I have a 29-inch waist and I have to buy pants that are too big. It's discrimination.

Bestbank Tiger: Psychomancer: "I issue a challenge to those of you who are commenting against our efforts to attain greater accessibility. Close your eyes or put on a blindfold for a few hours. Imagine how you would want to be treated if that condition were permanent. Would you want to be excluded from society or included? How would you feel if your spouse, daughter or son were blind or visually impaired? Wouldn't you want to see that they be afforded the same opportunities, wherever possible, as sighted people? Come on, my friends, think outside the box. I am available for any and all constructive dialogue by e-mail at editorlanruojsseccadnilbcom.

Best regards,

Darrell Shandrow
Accessibility Evangelist and ASU Cronkite School of Journalism Student
BlindAccessJournal.com"



This is like me saying (I'm 6'5"), Imagine if you would, if all shirts you go to buy were too short. Imagine how unfair it is that clothing manufacturers cater to the 5'9" man. Imagine how you'd feel being excluded.

Still Bullshiat.

I know exactly how you feel. I have a 29-inch waist and I have to buy pants that are too big. It's discrimination.

Dude, just buy one big pair of pants, cut the legs off. Voila! Two pairs of pants.

I bet they didn't see that coming.

And, honestly, e-textbooks are not required. They are one option. Most students still use plain old hardcopy textbooks anyway. Get a braille version, STFU, and stop trying to handicap the nonhandicapped students because they have options you don't. Might as well friggin ask everyone else to poke out their eyes because they can drive and you can't.

I was at the National Federation for the Blind's annual convention today, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

I met a lot of very cute service dogs.

If they made the keys of the kindle to have braille over lays so the user could type by touch and voiced instructions that the user could turn off once they got the hang of it...it could be a sweet deal.

I'm an ASU graduate and...I'm not surprised by this at all. The school is run by some of the dumbest people not in government.

As a current ASU student, i've been waiting to be date raped by some hot sorority chicks for the last six years.

tenhigh: As a current ASU student, i've been waiting to be date raped by some hot sorority chicks for the last six years.

If it's been six years with no luck, you may need to be more proactive about it.

Unless I am reading this wrong the blind will still be provided with printed versions of the books just like they would have if everyone had gotten a printed book. So what is the issue?


My guess here from what the text seems to be saying, is that the students would get the books at the sametime (students that can see can get them now) and that the Kindle offers features (Search for example) in these books that you can't get in a printed book.

To the point of not being able to get the books at the sametime, I find that a little silly. The university could do a better job at making text books for the blind ready in a timly manner. As to the features the kindle offers. Sorry guys, maybe you can talk to Amazon about fixing that in thier product, but it's just buying a book from another place. Something people have always been allowed to do.

Getting the text books on the Kindle is silly. It totally removes the tradition of selling back books for $15 when you paid $150 for it originally.