When you have the kind of money her family has (her stepfather is Jerrold Wexler), you're eccentric, not stupid. lol

"Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for, and am deeply indebted to the miners working in coalmines and on MTR projects who risk their lives daily to bring power to our country. I understand they feel threatened by anything that might take away their jobs."

Then please keep injecting yourself with Demerol until you're on the cover of next week's People Magazine. Kthx.

? I guess mining is..maybe bad or..might be good. I don't know. Let's have sex.

She's a celebrity. Publicity arrest without any further consequences is in their contracts.

Why the Dumbass tag?


MTR mining is a nasty practice that horribly and needlessly pollutes vast amounts of land and water.

I accept the fact that our economy still relies on coal as a source of energy, but there are FAR less destructive and wasteful ways of mining it.

Hannah is making a stand for a good cause that she believes in-- She loves America and doesn't want to see large swaths of it needlessly destroyed.

=======================================================


I always found it ironic that those who tend to proclaim their love for America the loudest and most often also tend to be the ones all for turning so much of the actual physical country into a series of toxic cesspools-- all for the sake of a few extra $.

Criminal yet legal?

I give her props for this.

We can celebrity whore this and attention whore that but she is helping more people know what needs to be known. Unfortunately it's big business and big business gets done no matter the consequences.

I don't get the hate here. Her argument is fairly reasonable. And strip mining is a bad practice that can only take place in states where the people are apathetic about their environment.

She is right.

secularsage: I don't get the hate here. Her argument is fairly reasonable. And strip mining is a bad practice that can only take place in states where the people are apathetic about their environment.

C'mon, Fark was the original internet hate machine.

KiesteredBeetle: secularsage: I don't get the hate here. Her argument is fairly reasonable. And strip mining is a bad practice that can only take place in states where the people are apathetic about their environment.

C'mon, Fark was the original internet hate machine.

That's true, but she's not trendy or popular right now. But I guess it's a slow enough news day that we've got to hate someone, right?

WV should just secede from the nation. People there are so insular and provincial they would now anything outside WV existed if it wasn't for Byrd funneling billions of dollars into that black hole.

Riche: Why the Dumbass tag?


MTR mining is a nasty practice that horribly and needlessly pollutes vast amounts of land and water.

I accept the fact that our economy still relies on coal as a source of energy, but there are FAR less destructive and wasteful ways of mining it.

Hannah is making a stand for a good cause that she believes in-- She loves America and doesn't want to see large swaths of it needlessly destroyed.

=======================================================


I always found it ironic that those who tend to proclaim their love for America the loudest and most often also tend to be the ones all for turning so much of the actual physical country into a series of toxic cesspools-- all for the sake of a few extra $.

This. I saw a very sad bumper sticker yesterday:

Drill here
Drill now
Lower cost

I am continually amazed at how short-sighted people are.

Riche: I always found it ironic that those who tend to proclaim their love for America the loudest and most often also tend to be the ones all for turning so much of the actual physical country into a series of toxic cesspools-- all for the sake of a few extra $.

Really? Listening to my liberal brothers, I thought that Obama was against turning the country into a 'series of toxic cesspools. Apparently not. (new window)

I wonder how Daryl feels about replacing coal fired power plants with nuclear plants.

the headline:

Daryl Hannah: Why did I fly to West Virginia? To protest MTR mining, "which is criminal, yet legal." Why was she arrested? Because stupidity should be painful

...therefore, according to MASH, suicide and stupidity are polar opposites

/obscure?
//hopefully not, at least here

kenposan: Riche: Why the Dumbass tag?


I am continually amazed at how short-sighted people are.

Give her a break, she only has one eye.

Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

Yeah, I kinda fail to see where the dumbass tag fits in on this one. She seems to be fighting for a good cause.

But hey, don't let logic get in the way of the wharrrgarbl.

Coal mining deaths soared to a 10-year high in 2006, reversing an 80-year trend of steadily falling fatalities and raising safety concerns as coal production reaches record levels.

Forty-seven miners died last year, more than double the 22 killed in 2005 and matching the number in 1995. The recent spike is the biggest percentage increase in 107 years, according to federal records dating to 1900.

nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

MTR mining kills incredible amounts of wildlife, annihilates the local water table, screws up the natural drainage patterns for the area, and pollutes streams and lakes and totally farks with the local water table. They literally blow the top off a mountain to get to the coal inside and then basically leave a giant sinkhole behind.

The company that primarily does this, Massey Energy, is, bar none, the worst corporation in America. You know that recent Supreme Court case where the Justices rules that if one party in a case has given a judge three million dollars, then that judge should recuse himself? That was a Massey energy case, stemming from a time when the CEO of Massey basically bought a seat on the WV Supreme Court for a golfing buddy by flooding his campaign with 10x the cash his opponent had.

The CEO tried to do the same thing to the WV Legislature (giving $1 million + to hand picked candidates for campaigns that in previous years had involved no more than $25,000 or so) fortunately he picked 2006 for this attempted coup and all his challengers were Republicans. Every single one of them lost.

I came to snark but I can't. Good on her.

/I feel so dirty

nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

"If they flatten more of the area" Did you not understand what that means??????

Magorn: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

MTR mining kills incredible amounts of wildlife, annihilates the local water table, screws up the natural drainage patterns for the area, and pollutes streams and lakes and totally farks with the local water table. They literally blow the top off a mountain to get to the coal inside and then basically leave a giant sinkhole behind.

The company that primarily does this, Massey Energy, is, bar none, the worst corporation in America. You know that recent Supreme Court case where the Justices rules that if one party in a case has given a judge three million dollars, then that judge should recuse himself? That was a Massey energy case, stemming from a time when the CEO of Massey basically bought a seat on the WV Supreme Court for a golfing buddy by flooding his campaign with 10x the cash his opponent had.

The CEO tried to do the same thing to the WV Legislature (giving $1 million + to hand picked candidates for campaigns that in previous years had involved no more than $25,000 or so) fortunately he picked 2006 for this attempted coup and all his challengers were Republicans. Every single one of them lost.

They just need to complete the process. Flatten the area and make it a place where people can live. They do it all the time in strip mining areas.

this was once a strip mine.

nicksteel: this was once a strip mine.

sorry, photo did not make it.

lamecomedian: Give her a break, she only has one eye.

give her an even bigger break - Vol. II changed that count to zero.

nicksteel: realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

"If they flatten more of the area" Did you not understand what that means??????


Yea..it means that you are an idiot. the practice is quite destructive and running a bulldozer over the area a few times does not make it into productive farmland.

Lived in WV for 22 years, still has family that works in the mines and mills...

duckpoopy: WV should just secede from the nation. People there are so insular and provincial they would now anything outside WV existed if it wasn't for Byrd funneling billions of dollars into that black hole.

Actually, alot of Byrd's "boondoggles" can and do save the fed billions of dollars a year...the FBI fingerprint center that he had built in Clarksburg, WV save millions in reduced rent and other costs of doing business (ie rent in WV is a lot lower than in the greater DC area)

Maybe the reason your intelligent, well-read super-amazing friends don't know what MTR is is because you call it "MTR." Call it "Mountain Top Removal," and maybe you won't have such an uphill climb to "raise awareness."

But then again, if too many people knew about it, it wouldn't be so niche, and you wouldn't be able to feel so much more aware than them.

Heh. Farmland on removed mountaintops. Heh heh heh.

Farmland where there's no topsoil. Hee hee hee.

Farming among the toxic tailings ponds. Ha ha ha.

Farming where irrigation water has to be pumped up the side of a mountain. Ho ho ho.

Seriously, stupid shiat like this is why I read Fark. You can't buy better entertainment.

Torgo_of_Manos: nicksteel: realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

"If they flatten more of the area" Did you not understand what that means??????


Yea..it means that you are an idiot. the practice is quite destructive and running a bulldozer over the area a few times does not make it into productive farmland.

Lived in WV for 22 years, still has family that works in the mines and mills...


It is quite an honor to be called an idiot by somebody from West Virginia. It's almost like we are family.

I guess that you are just too thick to understand that it would require more than running a bulldozer over the land. No matter, smarter people than you would actually have to do the planning. Strip mines are recovered all the time and with a bit of work, they can become productive. What were you using those mountain tops for before the coal companies came in?? What?? Nothing???

El_Swino: Heh. Farmland on removed mountaintops. Heh heh heh.

Farmland where there's no topsoil. Hee hee hee.

Farming among the toxic tailings ponds. Ha ha ha.

Farming where irrigation water has to be pumped up the side of a mountain. Ho ho ho.

Seriously, stupid shiat like this is why I read Fark. You can't buy better entertainment.

The reason that you do not understand that it can be done is that you lack the intelligence and imagination that has allowed large tracts of land to be reclaimed.

You are also too thick to understand that it would require work and planning to do so.

I never said on mountain tops - I said you would have to flatten the area. Do I need to explain that to you as well??

No top soil?? With a bit of planning, there is plenty of topsoil. Remove the topsoil from the mountain and set it aside. Use the soil beneath that to fill in the low areas and then put the top soil back. They do that very thing in strip mining all the time.

The problem is not that the coal companies are lopping off the tops of mountains. The problem is that the people of West Virginia are either too stupid or too lazy to come up with an alternative solution. The West Virginia govt. needs to enact laws that require the land to be reclaimed. Then the coal company has a choice - if reclaiming the land is going to be too expensive they will not do any mining.

nicksteel: realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

"If they flatten more of the area" Did you not understand what that means??????

It means you have flat rock. You can't farm rock just because
its flat. It's also *very* expensive, and the coal companies
aren't going to pay for it.

You still didn't answer my question. What farming experience do you have? What specific crop or animal do you think will
grow there? Show me the numbers for a (legal) crop
that will cover the growing costs and pay for land
recovery while competing with established farms.

I buy about half my food direct from local farmers. They
have spent the last ten years restoring worn out
farmland back into healthy farmland. They started out with
working farms in farm country with access to supply stores
and the infrastructure needed for their business. They
have to charge 50%-100% more than supermarket prices
to make ends meet.

Unless you are willing to pay $50 a pound for potatoes,
I don't see how farming can cover the cost of restoring the land.

Show me the numbers and I'll believe you. But if it was viable
don't you think someone would already be doing it?

/You teach, you teach, you teach!
//Last words of Dr. Weston A. Price

realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: nicksteel: realityVSperception: Look for yourself - Mining has turned square miles
of West Virgina into a lunar landscape.



View Larger Map

hardly looks like the moon at all. What it DOES look like is a place that might be habitable. If they flatten more of the area, they are increasing the land available for farming. Sounds like a win/win to me.

*This* is your idea of farm land? Please tell, what have you actually farmed?

Link (new window)

"If they flatten more of the area" Did you not understand what that means??????

It means you have flat rock. You can't farm rock just because
its flat. It's also *very* expensive, and the coal companies
aren't going to pay for it.

You still didn't answer my question. What farming experience do you have? What specific crop or animal do you think will
grow there? Show me the numbers for a (legal) crop
that will cover the growing costs and pay for land
recovery while competing with established farms.

I buy about half my food direct from local farmers. They
have spent the last ten years restoring worn out
farmland back into healthy farmland. They started out with
working farms in farm country with access to supply stores
and the infrastructure needed for their business. They
have to charge 50%-100% more than supermarket prices
to make ends meet.

Unless you are willing to pay $50 a pound for potatoes,
I don't see how farming can cover the cost of restoring the land.

Show me the numbers and I'll believe you. But if it was viable
don't you think someone would already be doing it?

/You teach, you teach, you teach!
//Last words of Dr. Weston A. Price

As I said before, farming does not pay to restore the land. The coal companies restore the land. If you would actually read my posts instead of acting like a complete ass, all of your concerns were covered.

nicksteel:
The reason that you do not understand that it can be done is that you lack the intelligence and imagination that has allowed large tracts of land to be reclaimed.

You are also too thick to understand that it would require work and planning to do so.

Heh. So cute. You left out money. Lots and lots and lots of money. The whole justification of mountaintop removal mining is that it's cheap. You don't dig a mine, you don't pay miners.

I never said on mountain tops - I said you would have to flatten the area. Do I need to explain that to you as well??

Hee hee. The thread is about Mountaintop Removal Mining, and what to do with the aftermath, and you weren't talking about mountain tops? That's hilarious! What were you talking about, then?

No top soil?? With a bit of planning, there is plenty of topsoil. Remove the topsoil from the mountain and set it aside. Use the soil beneath that to fill in the low areas and then put the top soil back. They do that very thing in strip mining all the time.

Oh, keep it up. Remove the topsoil? It's a mountain.



Yeah, have fun up there with your scrapers and dump trucks. I'll wait over here, having a giggly fit.

In the meantime, let's talk about remediating toxic tailings ponds, the expense of pumping water uphill (once nature has already moved it downhill for free), and so on. Then compare those costs to farming on existing, non-polluted farmland. How much government welfare subsidy should these mountain farmers receive in order to offset the costs and make it practical? $20K/year per farm? 50K? As a taxpayer, you're going to be paying something, might as well pick a figure you're comfortable with.

The problem is not that the coal companies are lopping off the tops of mountains. The problem is that the people of West Virginia are either too stupid or too lazy to come up with an alternative solution. The West Virginia govt. needs to enact laws that require the land to be reclaimed. Then the coal company has a choice - if reclaiming the land is going to be too expensive they will not do any mining.

Well, for a lot of people, the problem is that they're lopping the tops off mountains. You don't "reclaim" a mountain once it's gone. Let's use the term "replace", it's much more honest. But you're right, if we legislate that the coal companies replace the damaged areas with parkland, then it would be too expensive to continue. Oh, well. We just go back to removing coal the old-fashioned way. There are plenty of mines in Appalachia, they've just been shut down because blowing the tops off mountains is cheaper than digging for it.

El_Swino: nicksteel:
The reason that you do not understand that it can be done is that you lack the intelligence and imagination that has allowed large tracts of land to be reclaimed.

You are also too thick to understand that it would require work and planning to do so.

Heh. So cute. You left out money. Lots and lots and lots of money. The whole justification of mountaintop removal mining is that it's cheap. You don't dig a mine, you don't pay miners.

I never said on mountain tops - I said you would have to flatten the area. Do I need to explain that to you as well??

Hee hee. The thread is about Mountaintop Removal Mining, and what to do with the aftermath, and you weren't talking about mountain tops? That's hilarious! What were you talking about, then?

No top soil?? With a bit of planning, there is plenty of topsoil. Remove the topsoil from the mountain and set it aside. Use the soil beneath that to fill in the low areas and then put the top soil back. They do that very thing in strip mining all the time.

Oh, keep it up. Remove the topsoil? It's a mountain.



Yeah, have fun up there with your scrapers and dump trucks. I'll wait over here, having a giggly fit.

In the meantime, let's talk about remediating toxic tailings ponds, the expense of pumping water uphill (once nature has already moved it downhill for free), and so on. Then compare those costs to farming on existing, non-polluted farmland. How much government welfare subsidy should these mountain farmers receive in order to offset the costs and make it practical? $20K/year per farm? 50K? As a taxpayer, you're going to be paying something, might as well pick a figure you're comfortable with.

The problem is not that the coal companies are lopping off the tops of mountains. The problem is that the people of West Virginia are either too stupid or too lazy to come up with an alternative solution. The West Virginia govt. needs to enact laws that require the land to be reclaimed. Then the coal company has a choice - if reclaiming the land is going to be too expensive they will not do any mining.

Well, for a lot of people, the problem is that they're lopping the tops off mountains. You don't "reclaim" a mountain once it's gone. Let's use the term "replace", it's much more honest. But you're right, if we legislate that the coal companies replace the damaged areas with parkland, then it would be too expensive to continue. Oh, well. We just go back to removing coal the old-fashioned way. There are plenty of mines in Appalachia, they've just been shut down because blowing the tops off mountains is cheaper than digging for it.

you are either too stupid to understand or you simply are not trying. I have provided an alternative that is workable IF the coal companies want to pursue it. Make it a law and they would have no choice.

OR you can make fun of a suggestion that has worked across the country and then sit around and biatch about what is happening because you are too lazy or stupid to take actions to stop it.

it is a simple solution. I am amazed that some of you don't grasp it.

The coal companies mess up the land, the coal companies should be required by law to restore it. Other states have passed such laws.

nicksteel: it is a simple solution. I am amazed that some of you don't grasp it.

The coal companies mess up the land, the coal companies should be required by law to restore it. Other states have passed such laws.

The problem is you are making sense but this is fark.

TheBigBadCrystallineEntity: nicksteel: it is a simple solution. I am amazed that some of you don't grasp it.

The coal companies mess up the land, the coal companies should be required by law to restore it. Other states have passed such laws.

The problem is you are making sense but this is fark.

my bad!

nicksteel:
you are either too stupid to understand or you simply are not trying. I have provided an alternative that is workable IF the coal companies want to pursue it. Make it a law and they would have no choice.

OR you can make fun of a suggestion that has worked across the country and then sit around and biatch about what is happening because you are too lazy or stupid to take actions to stop it.

What you've done, city boy, is make a silly suggestion. You're still failing to grasp that remediation methods that may work in the flatlands of the Midwest would not be cost-effective in the mountains of Appalachia. As others have pointed out, you know nothing about farming. Your "workable alternative" isn't, and you've ignored the practical objections made simply by bleating "well, it worked somewhere else". As I said, this is why I love Fark - it gives people who know zero about the subject matter ample opportunity to flaunt that fact.

As I said before, you are right about one thing - make it too expensive to continue and it will stop. That's one avenue that is being pursued. I'm glad you support it.

In the meantime, go back to insulting Obama on the politics page. At least you're sort of in your element there.

nicksteel: it is a simple solution. I am amazed that some of you don't grasp it.

The coal companies mess up the land, the coal companies should be required by law to restore it. Other states have passed such laws.

The SMCRA (Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act) already requires the land to be leveled into a plateau or hill.

RoboreR: nicksteel: it is a simple solution. I am amazed that some of you don't grasp it.

The coal companies mess up the land, the coal companies should be required by law to restore it. Other states have passed such laws.

The SMCRA (Surface Mining Control and Reclamation Act) already requires the land to be leveled into a plateau or hill.

That is hardly what I would call restoring the land.

El_Swino: nicksteel:
you are either too stupid to understand or you simply are not trying. I have provided an alternative that is workable IF the coal companies want to pursue it. Make it a law and they would have no choice.

OR you can make fun of a suggestion that has worked across the country and then sit around and biatch about what is happening because you are too lazy or stupid to take actions to stop it.

What you've done, city boy, is make a silly suggestion. You're still failing to grasp that remediation methods that may work in the flatlands of the Midwest would not be cost-effective in the mountains of Appalachia. As others have pointed out, you know nothing about farming. Your "workable alternative" isn't, and you've ignored the practical objections made simply by bleating "well, it worked somewhere else". As I said, this is why I love Fark - it gives people who know zero about the subject matter ample opportunity to flaunt that fact.

As I said before, you are right about one thing - make it too expensive to continue and it will stop. That's one avenue that is being pursued. I'm glad you support it.

In the meantime, go back to insulting Obama on the politics page. At least you're sort of in your element there.

The method I suggest has been tried in areas that are by no means "flat lands".

What you fail to grasp is that my suggestion puts everything in the hands of the coal company. Let them find the solutions. But not you! You want to make their argument for them! That has to be the stupidest thing anybody will see on fark.

I have never posted anything insulting about Obama. Your suggestion that I have done so is just another example of your massive stupidity.

nicksteel:
What you fail to grasp is that my suggestion puts everything in the hands of the coal company. Let them find the solutions. But not you! You want to make their argument for them! That has to be the stupidest thing anybody will see on fark.

I'm not even sure what this means. Is it in English? Maybe try rephrasing it, with less attention paid to trying to read my mind.

I have never posted anything insulting about Obama. Your suggestion that I have done so is just another example of your massive stupidity.

Eh, my bad. I've got you Farkied as a "patriot" with anger issues, so I made the assumption. I'm pleased to observe that my note was correct, however. Don't ever change, it's funnier that way.

El_Swino: nicksteel:
What you fail to grasp is that my suggestion puts everything in the hands of the coal company. Let them find the solutions. But not you! You want to make their argument for them! That has to be the stupidest thing anybody will see on fark.

I'm not even sure what this means. Is it in English? Maybe try rephrasing it, with less attention paid to trying to read my mind.

I have never posted anything insulting about Obama. Your suggestion that I have done so is just another example of your massive stupidity.

Eh, my bad. I've got you Farkied as a "patriot" with anger issues, so I made the assumption. I'm pleased to observe that my note was correct, however. Don't ever change, it's funnier that way.

nothing that you have posted is correct. You know nothing about me or my experiences. You area closed minded buffoon who refuses to even consider a workable plan.

As I said before, farming does not pay to restore the land. The coal companies restore the land. If you would actually read my posts instead of acting like a complete ass, all of your concerns were covered.


The point is that none of what you mention is being done.

The companies are scraping the soil into the nearest ravine
where it either washes into the watershed or is contaminated by mine runoff.

The restoration you are taking about is huge, as in square miles
and the costs are enormous.

The companies can bribe local officials and tie things up
in court until the coal is gone and then sell the
site to a shell company that goes bankrupt and avoid the cost
of cleanup all together. All perfectly legal.

The laws that allow this are at the Federal level. West Va. doesn't get a say in it.

Link (new window)


"The complaint seeks to block the changes in the Stream Buffer Zone Rule which gut the original rule's water quality protections and effectively legalize the destruction of streams in the region's coalfields. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Office of Surface Mining are named in the suit. Among other things, the rule change:

Exempts valley fills - dumping dirt and rubble from mountaintop blasting into nearby valleys - and other mining activities from the 100-foot protective buffer zone so long as the operator minimizes environmental damage "to the extent possible."
Eliminates the requirement that regulators must first determine that coal mining activities in or next to streams would not harm water quality or quantity.
"The new rule basically allows the bulldozers and backhoes to tear up or pollute miles and miles of headwater streams in the mountains that are the source of drinking water for thousands of people and habitat for vital species," said SELC Senior Attorney Deborah Murray. The change in the Stream Buffer Zone rule will have significant negative impacts on water quality and stream health by condoning mining operations that have already buried at least 724 stream miles and damaged at least 484 more miles in Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and West Virginia.

The OSM, in issuing the rule change, and the EPA in concurring, failed to consult with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service about potential impacts to threatened and endangered species and critical habitat, as required by the Endangered Species Act. Instead, OSM relied on a 1996 "biological opinion" which said that no coal mining operation anywhere in the U.S. would ever harm threatened or endangered species listed then, or in the future - as long as OSM complied with the requirements of the Surface Mining and Control Act, including the former 1983 Stream Buffer Zone rule."

Its not about what could be done with unlimited resources and money, its about what is actually happening in the real world.


You still havn't answered my question about what you think could be farmed there.

Just for fun, I'll give you land leveled and recovered with local topsoil. You still need local supply stores, transportation, a market, and of course farmers. Given that the feds still pay farmers *not* to grow on existing top quality land, I don't see
how this would work. For starters, farms need a lot of water
which is not commonly found on a mountain top. Show me the
facts to back up your claim.

If asking for specifics makes me an ass, so be it.