That is both terrifying and saddening at the same time. I feel for this girl and her family, but at the same time I'd be afraid to live with her, less 400-the-cat tell her to cut my throat in the night.

I know schizo people, I'm related to some. The world they live in is a nightmare that they can't wake up from. Electro shocks, medications and therapy for the rest of their lives is the only thing keeping them alive. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy much less a child. Breaks my heart.

UpsideDown: I feel for this girl and her family, but at the same time I'd be afraid to live with her, less 400-the-cat tell her to cut my throat in the night.

They know that, otherwise they wouldn't be going to such lengths to keep her separated from her brother. God, talk about being in a position where there are absolutely no correct choices.

How can she get AIDS at 6 years old?

Jakevol2: I don't think anyone is romaticizing her illness.

Well they kinda are by saying she has a 146 iq and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees for an hour or so.

/shoulda thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Cultrguru: mfaby Sorry that was uncalled for. However TMYK:

The Schofields consulted doctors and heard myriad opinions: bipolar disorder, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, ineffective parenting. No one considered schizophrenia.

real question: don't bipolar and schizophrenia have a pretty large symptom indicator overlapping? IIRC from my college psych days and a few long term friends who have one or the other of the two.

The things that strike me are that both parents also have (admittedly minor) mental health issues as well. If anything, this cements my desire that if I am to have children, I'd rather adopt than force the kid to bear my bloodline's iniquities.

What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

Bomb Mecca: Jakevol2: I don't think anyone is romaticizing her illness.

Well they kinda are by saying she has a 146 iq and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees for an hour or so.

/shoulda thrown the baby out with the bath water.

John Nash was a schizophrenic, a genius and a Nobel Prize winner. No there is no proof that she is a prodigy at math. I just wondered about it since she does have a fixation on numbers. Did you see the video that accompanied the article? Did you see how she behaved? There is a frightening intelligence about her. I don't know if her intelligence is a byproduct of her illness or if her illness is a byproduct of her intelligence or if they are mutally exclusive. But to acknowlege her intelligence is not the same as romaticizing her disease.

And yes she does have piercing blue eyes. She is a very pretty little girl who will grow up to be a beautiful woman. It is horrible she will not get to live the normal life she so deserves.

Bomb Mecca: and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees f

twat

bgal85: What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

That's actually not a bad idea. It'd be an interesting read, and god knows they need the proceeds to deal with her long term care.

Genevieve Marie: bgal85: What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

That's actually not a bad idea. It'd be an interesting read, and god knows they need the proceeds to deal with her long term care.

This. Sell the movie rights while they are at it. Starring Elle Fanning.

It's not nap time for me, it's nap time FOR YOU!!!

I was diagnosed as schizophrenic first and then bi-polar later. Came on at seventeen. Did my share of 72 hour holds over the years, Was given many different drugs. Last hospitalization was at about mid thirties. I was a productive member of society (held jobs, paid taxes) all my life. I have not been on any meds for almost twenty years now. It is misery to live with and I was often paranoid and had delusions about what was going on. It is no picnic. I never slashed any throats though or ever wanted to.
So, getting a kick etc.

/Feeling much better now.

I had a joke about when I used to teach Kindergarten, but then I read the article and felt really bad for her.

Meh, many schizophrenics can get treatment and go on to live happy, if unusual lives. I hope for the best for this girl, but I also hope that the parents let her get better if she can instead of automatically locking her away forever.

thanks subby

the "400" at the end was a nice touch, spooked the hell out of me in a very "carol anne" sort of way.

not sure why, but this is incredibly fascinating. as ridiculous as this sounds, i'd much rather watch this on TV than jon and kate plus 8.

/not trolling, i swear. just the facts, jack.

Pmoon: I was diagnosed as schizophrenic first and then bi-polar later. Came on at seventeen. Did my share of 72 hour holds over the years, Was given many different drugs. Last hospitalization was at about mid thirties. I was a productive member of society (held jobs, paid taxes) all my life. I have not been on any meds for almost twenty years now. It is misery to live with and I was often paranoid and had delusions about what was going on. It is no picnic. I never slashed any throats though or ever wanted to.
So, getting a kick etc.

/Feeling much better now.

I'm glad you shared that. I started having hallucinations when I was 18, but did nothing about it. Two years later, in college, I had a psychotic episode and my roommate took me to the emergency room. From there I spent eight days in a psych ward and was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder. I am 22 now and only on two different medications but overall I'm doing well (I'm holding a job just fine and getting through school).

My grandfather had schizophrenia and killed himself.

vitaexcolatur: not sure why, but this is incredibly fascinating. as ridiculous as this sounds, i'd much rather watch this on TV than jon and kate plus 8.

It doesn't sound ridiculous. It would probably be awful for the girl to be under that kind of surveillance, but there's some academic interest here in wondering how this girl thinks and what she sees in the world around her. There's nothing particularly stimulating in watching some blonde chase around after her rugrats though- you can see that at any park in America without having to pay for cable.

My husband's aunt was very smart, charming, etc. and on well on her way to becoming a doctor when -bam- schizophrenia. She was in her 20s and it was out of nowhere. She became violent and no one would take her in and the family felt helpless. She's now in her 50s and my husband went to see her and she was living in filth. The caretakers were basically check cashers - he spent weeks cleaning out her apartment.

Just such a horrible illness. That article was such an eye-opener.

gadian: Meh, many schizophrenics can get treatment and go on to live happy, if unusual lives. I hope for the best for this girl, but I also hope that the parents let her get better if she can instead of automatically locking her away forever.

ftfa:

"Child-onset schizophrenia is 20 to 30 times more severe than adult-onset schizophrenia," says Dr. Nitin Gogtay, a neurologist at the National Institute of Mental Health who helps direct the children's study, the largest such study in the world on the illness.

"Ninety-five percent of the time they are awake these kids are actively hallucinating," Gogtay says. "I don't think I've seen anything more devastating in all of medicine."


Doesn't seem like they are going to have much of a choice in this instance unfortunately...

/sad face

The moment I started reading the article, I knew the girl was bright. When I first read the names of her delusional friends ... 24 hours ... 100 degrees ... 400 the cat, I said this girl has a huge IQ. Probably over the 146 the article mentions, IQ tests are very structured and can't really tell how smart someone is when they have short attention spans and other issues like this girl.

She's getting the worse of the United States psychiatry. Medications until she's trashed. Constructivism. Pure bullshiat. They'll trash her until she either becomes a vegetable or she dies.

Yes, she might need the help of some medication to calm her down, since she does have a neurological problem, but Psychological therapy + some medications is a way to rehab, what they are doing her is akin to the Ludovic technique. In the country that has performed more electroshock 'therapy' and lobotomies in the world, being mentally ill is worse than being in Guantanamo.

Sybil.

And I don't mean that in a snarky way.

My first visit to the flight deck was almost two weeks. It was in older days when things were not as nice. I was locked in a room in a locked facility. There was only a bare mattress on the floor. Little tiny square window in the door. I was being given drugs that made my whole body lock up. I was extremely paranoid and when reading the sheet of patients rights that they throw in there with you. It said you have the right to refuse a lobotomy. Scared the hell out of me. I figured if they wanted to they would just do it. How could I say that I did not consent afterwords?

Akira-type crazy has its plusses- telepathy, telekinesis, approaching oneness with the universe. Downside would be body transforming into huge wired blob and inevitable confusing WTF implosion at the end.

Pmoon: I figured if they wanted to they would just do it. How could I say that I did not consent afterword

Good god, you're right, that's horrifying, ugh. I didn't realize those were still even performed.

I wish this were a better/safer/less sarcastic place to offer opinions and insights but I know what Fark is, but I'll do it anyway.

The family needs to seriously curtail the asking her if she sees, hears and such the "friends, animals and numbers". In many ways I believe families without the right tools and coping mechanisms exacerbate the level and power of mental illnesses in the lives of prone and actively ill children.

There are deep and dangerous places minds can go and without proper direction and formulae to give to a person/child the struggle and depths only get worse.

One of my kids has the violence this child does, same age, minimal sleep too. Oddly her shrink told her to name her angry monster with one name. She did and we made a contest chart to track who wins each violent episode. Only then did she/we ever make headway. First weeks "he" won hands down. But as we began to ask who would win she began to take control of the episodes and could alter the outcome and at least remember the incidents.

Cracking wood doors, denting steel doors, trashing rooms, shredding plants, gouging sisters flesh with nails etc... the level of violence is way down and hings are not being hurt the same way or level.

The current ubiquitous stance about drugs to the rescue to us was more of a way to relieve the child of struggling against the forces driving the problem. When something else like a drug is expected to win the battle for the child especially one who is still growing nothing but more and more drugs will suffice. Teach them a skill and they at least have a chance even if drugs are used for maintenence.

The analogy is that even animals hatched from eggs or seeds require the pressure from above and inside to develop the life that is capable of real survival. Chicks who have been helped from eggs are weak and sickly. Acorns planted too shallow produce pithy week trees etc... Once we learned that the pressure she felt was internal and our focus on her external behaviors was adding volumes to her conflict we were able to focus on her internal struggle which magically altered the external behaviors.

Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

GT_bike - I suggest you don't do that however well intentioned

Burchill: GT_bike - I suggest you don't do that however well intentioned

Why? I kind of figure that when you're in a situation that bad, you'd want to hear from as many doctors and professionals as possible.

Typos: with her fingernails

Yes I believe the mind of the mentally ill has the power to diminish the power of the imaginary friends and hallucinations.

When I watched the video and the reporter asked if she knew what schizophrenia is and if she thought she were, I cringed and thought that will only give her power to feed the sick side...anyway I've said my piece.

At one time, she'd have been seen as touched by God/the Holy Spirit. More recently, she'd be tied up in a cage, literally, in some sanitarium and likely beaten and what all else. While neither of those scenarios play out any longer, what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

WhyteRaven74: what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

No one really knows what to do it seems. I'm trying to think of what the best case scenario is for her and I'm drawing a blank.

Genevieve Marie: GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

We've done everything thus far in the past year or with no drugs, no specific diagnosis ie. no formal categorization of the disorder (though have our suspicions), better whole foods, plans of action vs. reaction etc... the shrink is a PhD therapist non drug dispensing. We seem to be a highly drug reactive set of genes so that is not an option we were in a hurry to add to the mix. Our therapist frankly is brilliant and subscribes to the concepts of the egg and seed I mentioned. In my daughter's case this is her shell, it is hers to break. Our constant interference trying to control it was counterproductive.

i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

"Psychiatry is a pseudoscience. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do."

"There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in a body."

This man has the cure.

//Link is as hot as his ex-wife

GT_bike: Genevieve Marie: GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

We've done everything thus far in the past year or with no drugs, no specific diagnosis ie. no formal categorization of the disorder (though have our suspicions), better whole foods, plans of action vs. reaction etc... the shrink is a PhD therapist non drug dispensing. We seem to be a highly drug reactive set of genes so that is not an option we were in a hurry to add to the mix. Our therapist frankly is brilliant and subscribes to the concepts of the egg and seed I mentioned. In my daughter's case this is her shell, it is hers to break. Our constant interference trying to control it was counterproductive.

Honestly, I firmly believe in the powers of drugs for dealing with severe mental illness, so personally I don't think that therapy alone is enough to cope with serious mental disorders like schizophrenia, but that decision is with you and your wife and I wish you guys luck. But I honestly don't think that taking this little girl off her thorazine will have anything but a horrible result and on second thought, her parents probably wouldn't appreciate hearing that as they've probably heard condemnation from a lot of people for putting their child on psychiatric drugs, no matter how badly she needs those drugs.

vitaexcolatur: but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

cretinbob: Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Mmm you are either a non-profit advocate for children or a Scientologist.

Taking bets, even odds!

vitaexcolatur: i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

WhyteRaven74: At one time, she'd have been seen as touched by God/the Holy Spirit. More recently, she'd be tied up in a cage, literally, in some sanitarium and likely beaten and what all else. While neither of those scenarios play out any longer, what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

If she lived back in times as recent as the 1960s she likely would have been given frequent ECT treatments and eventually lobotomized. After which she would have spent the rest of her "life" in an institution. She probably would have been forcibly sterilized too, to ensure she didn't pass on her insanity.

Girls in reform school, people in mental institutions and poor women selected by welfare workers were among the more than 2,500 Oregonians subjected to sterilizations under a law that stood from 1917 to 1983. Others were criminal offenders, sufferers of epilepsy or other conditions that required institutional care. Many were children.

Ashelth: cretinbob: Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Mmm you are either a non-profit advocate for children or a Scientologist.

Taking bets, even odds!

Methinks your reading comprehension is poor, as that post was merely stating the fact that childhood schizophrenia has been around for a long time but is generally misdiagnosed.

If he were a Scientologist, he'd have denied there was such a thing as schizophrenia and suggested that the kid take some vitamins.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

you also forget that we're chicks. i feel like i should welcome you to the club with a plaque or a certificate or at the very least, a secret handshake.

Pmoon: vitaexcolatur: i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

I had one of those too and he was ok, but in my experience a combination is best. The most success I've ever had was with a psychiatrist who also mandated a biweekly therapy session to deal with whatever my mood swings were making me feel. The therapist was also a part of her practice, so if my meds were off, the therapist would call the doctor in to consult and the three of us could determine how to alter my treatment plan. She was absolutely fantastic, and I wouldn't be healthy today without finding that doctor. I don't do therapy anymore, and am down to one drug and doctor visits every three months, but I got there because of a combo.

il Dottore: I was a psych nurse for 13 years.

Thorazine is for the psychotic symptoms
Tegretol potentiates the effects of Thorazine.
Lithium is a mood stabilizer and helps limit Limbic cycling (rage).

Haldol and Moban were antipsychotics popular in the 80s/90s but both have severe permanent side effects- and Neuroleptic Malignancy Syndrome.

I had adult patients on all these meds (at inpatient dosage) and it trashed them.

That poor little girl.

Yeah, that's what I thought as I read through.

Just so many drugs for a girl who's probably already irretrievably warped.

Genevieve Marie: I'm drawing a blank.

Same here.

I actually found that group sessions with a counsler to moderate worked well for me in addition to the drugs. Talking to other people with similar conditions was very helpful.

you know, from a total geek standpoint, i'd love to see her brain activity while under the influence of (what i can only imagine a myriad) cocktail meds. conversely, it'd be neat to also see how her brain functions without it and just have her sedated to monitor brainwaves. not saying she needs to be tested like some lab animal, but i think there could be a great deal learned by observing (which i'm sure has been done already) without harming her.

as far as her affinity for numbers, it reminds of the book "born on a blue day." some of the similarities are uncanny.

at the bottom line, this is truly a great article. again, thanks subby>. at the very least, this started a great conversation about the little girl and some sort of awareness.

GT_bike:
real question: don't bipolar and schizophrenia have a pretty large symptom indicator overlapping? IIRC from my college psych days and a few long term friends who have one or the other of the two.
Depending on which flavor of bipolar you are talking about, yes. And according to a link (new window) on the Geek tab yesterday bipolar disorder and schizophrenia may be cause by the same farked-up genes.

I decided a while back that my bipolar genes did not need to be passed on, but I think these two articles have combined to pretty well reduce my biological clock to a little pile of clockwork rubble.

based on the responses thus far, which is why I mentioned that this is not a safe place to post said opinons and such, I can see that by morning I'm going to be a Scientology Holocaust denier.

Just a theoretical consideration here no science other than the first portion...

We know that exersize releases endorphins in the brain which conribute to good mental well being.

What could a lack of exersize, sunlight, light, sight, stimulation, overstimulation, processed foods (anyone notice what Jani was eating? Look again) and other things do to the chemicals in the brain? So does training help? Do you want to meet a 33 year old self destructive autistic man I go to church with? Whom I accidentally helped "learn" to control his raging outbursts over infants crying? I totally disagree that learning tools and training are ineffective and that drugs are the only way.

Are there anti-dorphons? Most of the seritonin drugs act in a mystery mode zone that is as of now not fully explainable. Then again listen to the disclaimers from depression medication manufacturers. Teens can get increased thoughts of suicide etc...

I'm not judging Jani or her parents on using them at all nor am I Tom Crusing her drug perscriptions. Her situation and levels are not mine to determine that is for them and their doctors to determine. Goughing eyes out vs. denting doors and scratching arms are big differences.

My friend with schizophrenia is a doctor, yes he is, well podiatrist (I know, Seinfeld)! He is great but if he doesn't run his 5 miles per day and take his meds things get iffy.