Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

That poor little girl. And her poor family.

MissFeasance: That poor little girl. And her poor family.

Indeed. That article came extremely close to making me cry.

That is in some ways better than turrets.

You just know she is going to have like 8 kids of her own someday.

csxtrainwreck: That is in some ways better than turrets.

I'd love to have had turrets at my house to counter-attack the marauding hordes. You wouldn't be referring to Tourette's, would you?

EviLincoln: You just know she is going to have like 8 kids of her own someday.

Not likely since she'll probably end up being institutionized for her entire life.

the_be_sharps: csxtrainwreck: That is in some ways better than turrets.

I'd love to have had turrets at my house to counter-attack the marauding hordes. You wouldn't be referring to Tourette's, would you?

Yes, that's COCKBAG what csxtrainARRGGHHwreck PENIS PENIS was trying to say SHIAT RRRRRAARRRRRBONER so cut him a FARK FARK FARK break.

/yes, it's a cheap Tourette's joke
//better than the first thing I thought of posting, which was really quite vile

cretinbob: EviLincoln: You just know she is going to have like 8 kids of her own someday.

Not likely since she'll probably end up being institutionized for her entire life.

Like I said before: that poor little girl.

how do I go about getting schizophrenia?

Yeah, I'm the one who submitted this article. (yay?) It is very sad with that poor girl.

Alyna_jf: how do I go about getting schizophrenia?

Drive down to the local biker bar and ask the bartender for the guy with the acid and/or mescaline.

/Although it only lasts for about 8 hours and you have to pay for it
//Would you liek to know how babby is formed?

cretinbob 2009-07-02 10:02:41 PM
Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Did you ever bother to read the article?

This is rare. And no, there is NO history of this being misdiagnosed ADHA or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Big deal.
She went batshiat crazy before she could ruin some guy's life.
She's an early bloomer.

Weird.
Schizophrenia is usually a late teens to twenties onset.

mfaby....really? did YOU read the article? Moron.

mfaby Sorry that was uncalled for. However TMYK:

The Schofields consulted doctors and heard myriad opinions: bipolar disorder, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, ineffective parenting. No one considered schizophrenia.

"I don't care how many people are in you...they ALL better get their asses in the house before I whoop ALL of their asses with a belt!"

Back in the old days, we had ways of dealing with crazy kids...
But nowadays, a real honest-to-god well is hard to come by.

/you weren't supposed to HELP her!!

I like to think that one day they'll have a cure for this.

so, when she looks in the mirror does the conversation go like this?

You STFU!

No, you STFU!!!

©

This just proves that her and her family are not praying enough.

As the father of 4 normal healthy kids, all I can say is man I feel lucky.

I would really hate to be in those parents shoes.

Interestingly, she would have been immediately put on the shaman track if she were born in a different time and place. She would have been considered an unusually powerful mystic, one that would be sent to study under the most influential shaman/priest/whatever around.

It's kind of sad that we don't have room for people like her. Reading through the article, she strikes me as simply far more attuned to her own brain's patterns than most of us are. She dreams while she's awake. Completely unfunctional in today's world, but a fascinating lesson if we knew how to learn it.

Translated into farkish: she's defective. Nuke it from orbit.

Don't you know?
Crazy kids can see & talk to dead people and write down numbers which predict all future disasters and stuff. Crazy kids kick ass!

400.

Damn...that shiat is weird.

Seems like it would make for a good movie...

poxic: Interestingly, she would have been immediately put on the shaman track if she were born in a different time and place. She would have been considered an unusually powerful mystic, one that would be sent to study under the most influential shaman/priest/whatever around.

Or thrown down a well, or burned at the stake. See above.

They've given birth to River Tam.

Oznog:Or thrown down a well, or burned at the stake. See above.

Yes, it would depend on the local culture. Ones with a strong shamanic or mystic tradition would find her interesting. Ones with a rigid set of religious rules would probably think she's demonic.

I was a psych nurse for 13 years.

Thorazine is for the psychotic symptoms
Tegretol potentiates the effects of Thorazine.
Lithium is a mood stabilizer and helps limit Limbic cycling (rage).

Haldol and Moban were antipsychotics popular in the 80s/90s but both have severe permanent side effects- and Neuroleptic Malignancy Syndrome.

I had adult patients on all these meds (at inpatient dosage) and it trashed them.

That poor little girl.

Please please please greenlight any future stories about Jani. I am enthralled and fascinated by her story. Wow her IQ is 146 and I am not a bit surprised. There is a piercing if tortured intelligence in her eyes from the photos of her in the article.


/Sometimes I do wonder if the schizophrenics aren't really the sane ones after all.

Tackboard: This just proves that her and her family are not praying enough.

Sadly, that's really their only hope. Even with medication she's going to spend her life in an institution.

Well. That was thoroughly depressing.

Adult-onset schizophrenics often experience a lessening of symptoms as they get older. I wonder if it's the same for childhood-onset. Maybe if she can make it through her teens, things will start to get better. I hope.

Oh, and note: Schizophrenia != multiple personality disorder

nah its just autism

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Tackboard: This just proves that her and her family are not praying enough.

Sadly, that's really their only hope. Even with medication she's going to spend her life in an institution.

I am not trying to be snarky or anything about this but in a way she also has a beautiful mind. I wonder if she has an aptitude for math since she seems fixated on naming her phantoms with names that include numbers.

My God. Just looking at that girl, and reading what she has... It is truly sad, when the prison you're in, is your own head.

Why romanticize schizophrenia? She doesn't just see colorful and fun new friends. She's extremely unpredictable and violent. That sort of thing may be cute in a 6 year old, but she isn't going to be be cute much longer. She won't be cute when she cuts your kid's throat either. Know what I'm saying? And I don't think other cultures would tolerate a "shaman" that randomly maims and kills the locals. There is such a thing as plain bat shiat crazy broken...

What a sad case all the way around.

EnjoyTheFacts: They've given birth to River Tam.

Nah, River didn't see animals, she just saw scenery.

/that poor, poor girl

I can only say Thank the lord I never had kids!... cause thats got my exwifes DNA all over it

bluefelix: Why romanticize schizophrenia? She doesn't just see colorful and fun new friends. She's extremely unpredictable and violent. That sort of thing may be cute in a 6 year old, but she isn't going to be be cute much longer. She won't be cute when she cuts your kid's throat either. Know what I'm saying? And I don't think other cultures would tolerate a "shaman" that randomly maims and kills the locals. There is such a thing as plain bat shiat crazy broken...

What a sad case all the way around.

I don't think anyone is romaticizing her illness.

She just manifested more early than most. Schizophrenia's peak manifestation age is generally the early 20's

Wow! I thought it was normal for kids to have imaginary friends!



I guess not now anymore...

Why do I picture 400 the Cat looking like an ash grey cat with a Cheshire grin?

Juniper Jupiter: Wow! I thought it was normal for kids to have imaginary friends!



I guess not now anymore...

When my brother was very young (before Kindergarten) he had an imaginary friend named Softy. My brother was very sick and was in the hospital a lot as little child. He had multiple operations and nearly died a couple of times. Often times children at the age my brother when he had Softy as an imaginary friend create them as a way to deal with severe crises. The phantoms Jani is tortured by are not the same case at all. Softy never told my brother to do things or suffer a severe consequence. 400 the Cat and the other bad phantoms tell Jani these things.

That was a good read, but dear god do I feel horrible for that family.

Juniper Jupiter: Wow! I thought it was normal for kids to have imaginary friends!



I guess not now anymore...

It is normal (I didn't had any, I think), what's not normal is her behavior.

Jesus farking christ. What a compelling but frightening article. Ugh.

I blame the schools.

I am sure that the parents will be well treated by the medical insurance industry...they seem to help so many of the mentally ill.


NOT!!

Pootie-Poot: I am sure that the parents will be well treated by the medical insurance industry...they seem to help so many of the mentally ill.


NOT!!

While that could not possibly have been phrased in a more obnoxious way, I agree that it's a shame that medical insurance rarely covers mental illness the way it should. I hope someone with the means to help these people reads this article and does something for them, because it sounds like they hit a wall every time they ask for help.

That is both terrifying and saddening at the same time. I feel for this girl and her family, but at the same time I'd be afraid to live with her, less 400-the-cat tell her to cut my throat in the night.

I know schizo people, I'm related to some. The world they live in is a nightmare that they can't wake up from. Electro shocks, medications and therapy for the rest of their lives is the only thing keeping them alive. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy much less a child. Breaks my heart.

UpsideDown: I feel for this girl and her family, but at the same time I'd be afraid to live with her, less 400-the-cat tell her to cut my throat in the night.

They know that, otherwise they wouldn't be going to such lengths to keep her separated from her brother. God, talk about being in a position where there are absolutely no correct choices.

How can she get AIDS at 6 years old?

Jakevol2: I don't think anyone is romaticizing her illness.

Well they kinda are by saying she has a 146 iq and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees for an hour or so.

/shoulda thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Cultrguru: mfaby Sorry that was uncalled for. However TMYK:

The Schofields consulted doctors and heard myriad opinions: bipolar disorder, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, ineffective parenting. No one considered schizophrenia.

real question: don't bipolar and schizophrenia have a pretty large symptom indicator overlapping? IIRC from my college psych days and a few long term friends who have one or the other of the two.

The things that strike me are that both parents also have (admittedly minor) mental health issues as well. If anything, this cements my desire that if I am to have children, I'd rather adopt than force the kid to bear my bloodline's iniquities.

What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

Bomb Mecca: Jakevol2: I don't think anyone is romaticizing her illness.

Well they kinda are by saying she has a 146 iq and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees for an hour or so.

/shoulda thrown the baby out with the bath water.

John Nash was a schizophrenic, a genius and a Nobel Prize winner. No there is no proof that she is a prodigy at math. I just wondered about it since she does have a fixation on numbers. Did you see the video that accompanied the article? Did you see how she behaved? There is a frightening intelligence about her. I don't know if her intelligence is a byproduct of her illness or if her illness is a byproduct of her intelligence or if they are mutally exclusive. But to acknowlege her intelligence is not the same as romaticizing her disease.

And yes she does have piercing blue eyes. She is a very pretty little girl who will grow up to be a beautiful woman. It is horrible she will not get to live the normal life she so deserves.

Bomb Mecca: and piercing brilliant eyes. I doubt a six year old parroting what her parents have taught her is a genius. She could be great at math but there's no evidence of it. Every kid her age is a 'voracious learner' and every parent claims their kid is very smart. She would be the person that drowns her 3 kids in a lake if she's allowed out of the looney bin. Sorry but she's a bag of failed genetics. It would be cool to see what she sees f

twat

bgal85: What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

That's actually not a bad idea. It'd be an interesting read, and god knows they need the proceeds to deal with her long term care.

Genevieve Marie: bgal85: What an interesting article. Her parents should write a book...

That's actually not a bad idea. It'd be an interesting read, and god knows they need the proceeds to deal with her long term care.

This. Sell the movie rights while they are at it. Starring Elle Fanning.

It's not nap time for me, it's nap time FOR YOU!!!

I was diagnosed as schizophrenic first and then bi-polar later. Came on at seventeen. Did my share of 72 hour holds over the years, Was given many different drugs. Last hospitalization was at about mid thirties. I was a productive member of society (held jobs, paid taxes) all my life. I have not been on any meds for almost twenty years now. It is misery to live with and I was often paranoid and had delusions about what was going on. It is no picnic. I never slashed any throats though or ever wanted to.
So, getting a kick etc.

/Feeling much better now.

I had a joke about when I used to teach Kindergarten, but then I read the article and felt really bad for her.

Meh, many schizophrenics can get treatment and go on to live happy, if unusual lives. I hope for the best for this girl, but I also hope that the parents let her get better if she can instead of automatically locking her away forever.

thanks subby

the "400" at the end was a nice touch, spooked the hell out of me in a very "carol anne" sort of way.

not sure why, but this is incredibly fascinating. as ridiculous as this sounds, i'd much rather watch this on TV than jon and kate plus 8.

/not trolling, i swear. just the facts, jack.

Pmoon: I was diagnosed as schizophrenic first and then bi-polar later. Came on at seventeen. Did my share of 72 hour holds over the years, Was given many different drugs. Last hospitalization was at about mid thirties. I was a productive member of society (held jobs, paid taxes) all my life. I have not been on any meds for almost twenty years now. It is misery to live with and I was often paranoid and had delusions about what was going on. It is no picnic. I never slashed any throats though or ever wanted to.
So, getting a kick etc.

/Feeling much better now.

I'm glad you shared that. I started having hallucinations when I was 18, but did nothing about it. Two years later, in college, I had a psychotic episode and my roommate took me to the emergency room. From there I spent eight days in a psych ward and was diagnosed with Schizoaffective disorder. I am 22 now and only on two different medications but overall I'm doing well (I'm holding a job just fine and getting through school).

My grandfather had schizophrenia and killed himself.

vitaexcolatur: not sure why, but this is incredibly fascinating. as ridiculous as this sounds, i'd much rather watch this on TV than jon and kate plus 8.

It doesn't sound ridiculous. It would probably be awful for the girl to be under that kind of surveillance, but there's some academic interest here in wondering how this girl thinks and what she sees in the world around her. There's nothing particularly stimulating in watching some blonde chase around after her rugrats though- you can see that at any park in America without having to pay for cable.

My husband's aunt was very smart, charming, etc. and on well on her way to becoming a doctor when -bam- schizophrenia. She was in her 20s and it was out of nowhere. She became violent and no one would take her in and the family felt helpless. She's now in her 50s and my husband went to see her and she was living in filth. The caretakers were basically check cashers - he spent weeks cleaning out her apartment.

Just such a horrible illness. That article was such an eye-opener.

gadian: Meh, many schizophrenics can get treatment and go on to live happy, if unusual lives. I hope for the best for this girl, but I also hope that the parents let her get better if she can instead of automatically locking her away forever.

ftfa:

"Child-onset schizophrenia is 20 to 30 times more severe than adult-onset schizophrenia," says Dr. Nitin Gogtay, a neurologist at the National Institute of Mental Health who helps direct the children's study, the largest such study in the world on the illness.

"Ninety-five percent of the time they are awake these kids are actively hallucinating," Gogtay says. "I don't think I've seen anything more devastating in all of medicine."


Doesn't seem like they are going to have much of a choice in this instance unfortunately...

/sad face

The moment I started reading the article, I knew the girl was bright. When I first read the names of her delusional friends ... 24 hours ... 100 degrees ... 400 the cat, I said this girl has a huge IQ. Probably over the 146 the article mentions, IQ tests are very structured and can't really tell how smart someone is when they have short attention spans and other issues like this girl.

She's getting the worse of the United States psychiatry. Medications until she's trashed. Constructivism. Pure bullshiat. They'll trash her until she either becomes a vegetable or she dies.

Yes, she might need the help of some medication to calm her down, since she does have a neurological problem, but Psychological therapy + some medications is a way to rehab, what they are doing her is akin to the Ludovic technique. In the country that has performed more electroshock 'therapy' and lobotomies in the world, being mentally ill is worse than being in Guantanamo.

Sybil.

And I don't mean that in a snarky way.

My first visit to the flight deck was almost two weeks. It was in older days when things were not as nice. I was locked in a room in a locked facility. There was only a bare mattress on the floor. Little tiny square window in the door. I was being given drugs that made my whole body lock up. I was extremely paranoid and when reading the sheet of patients rights that they throw in there with you. It said you have the right to refuse a lobotomy. Scared the hell out of me. I figured if they wanted to they would just do it. How could I say that I did not consent afterwords?

Akira-type crazy has its plusses- telepathy, telekinesis, approaching oneness with the universe. Downside would be body transforming into huge wired blob and inevitable confusing WTF implosion at the end.

Pmoon: I figured if they wanted to they would just do it. How could I say that I did not consent afterword

Good god, you're right, that's horrifying, ugh. I didn't realize those were still even performed.

I wish this were a better/safer/less sarcastic place to offer opinions and insights but I know what Fark is, but I'll do it anyway.

The family needs to seriously curtail the asking her if she sees, hears and such the "friends, animals and numbers". In many ways I believe families without the right tools and coping mechanisms exacerbate the level and power of mental illnesses in the lives of prone and actively ill children.

There are deep and dangerous places minds can go and without proper direction and formulae to give to a person/child the struggle and depths only get worse.

One of my kids has the violence this child does, same age, minimal sleep too. Oddly her shrink told her to name her angry monster with one name. She did and we made a contest chart to track who wins each violent episode. Only then did she/we ever make headway. First weeks "he" won hands down. But as we began to ask who would win she began to take control of the episodes and could alter the outcome and at least remember the incidents.

Cracking wood doors, denting steel doors, trashing rooms, shredding plants, gouging sisters flesh with nails etc... the level of violence is way down and hings are not being hurt the same way or level.

The current ubiquitous stance about drugs to the rescue to us was more of a way to relieve the child of struggling against the forces driving the problem. When something else like a drug is expected to win the battle for the child especially one who is still growing nothing but more and more drugs will suffice. Teach them a skill and they at least have a chance even if drugs are used for maintenence.

The analogy is that even animals hatched from eggs or seeds require the pressure from above and inside to develop the life that is capable of real survival. Chicks who have been helped from eggs are weak and sickly. Acorns planted too shallow produce pithy week trees etc... Once we learned that the pressure she felt was internal and our focus on her external behaviors was adding volumes to her conflict we were able to focus on her internal struggle which magically altered the external behaviors.

Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

GT_bike - I suggest you don't do that however well intentioned

Burchill: GT_bike - I suggest you don't do that however well intentioned

Why? I kind of figure that when you're in a situation that bad, you'd want to hear from as many doctors and professionals as possible.

Typos: with her fingernails

Yes I believe the mind of the mentally ill has the power to diminish the power of the imaginary friends and hallucinations.

When I watched the video and the reporter asked if she knew what schizophrenia is and if she thought she were, I cringed and thought that will only give her power to feed the sick side...anyway I've said my piece.

At one time, she'd have been seen as touched by God/the Holy Spirit. More recently, she'd be tied up in a cage, literally, in some sanitarium and likely beaten and what all else. While neither of those scenarios play out any longer, what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

WhyteRaven74: what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

No one really knows what to do it seems. I'm trying to think of what the best case scenario is for her and I'm drawing a blank.

Genevieve Marie: GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

We've done everything thus far in the past year or with no drugs, no specific diagnosis ie. no formal categorization of the disorder (though have our suspicions), better whole foods, plans of action vs. reaction etc... the shrink is a PhD therapist non drug dispensing. We seem to be a highly drug reactive set of genes so that is not an option we were in a hurry to add to the mix. Our therapist frankly is brilliant and subscribes to the concepts of the egg and seed I mentioned. In my daughter's case this is her shell, it is hers to break. Our constant interference trying to control it was counterproductive.

i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

"Psychiatry is a pseudoscience. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do."

"There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in a body."

This man has the cure.

//Link is as hot as his ex-wife

GT_bike: Genevieve Marie: GT_bike: Maybe I'll try to find them and intro them to our shrink. We needed therapy to learn how to stop feeding the troll so to speak.

Out of curiosity, what mental disorder was your child diagnosed with? (and it's perfectly understandable if you prefer not to respond.) I get the impression they ask her about what she sees largely to keep track of where she is mentally and if her medications are helping- there's really no other way to ascertain it than to ask her what she sees.

Oh, and the reporter's email address was at the bottom of the letter, so I'd assume a well-intentioned polite letter would be passed on if sent through her. If not, there's a Tfer who works for the LA Times who might be able to help.

We've done everything thus far in the past year or with no drugs, no specific diagnosis ie. no formal categorization of the disorder (though have our suspicions), better whole foods, plans of action vs. reaction etc... the shrink is a PhD therapist non drug dispensing. We seem to be a highly drug reactive set of genes so that is not an option we were in a hurry to add to the mix. Our therapist frankly is brilliant and subscribes to the concepts of the egg and seed I mentioned. In my daughter's case this is her shell, it is hers to break. Our constant interference trying to control it was counterproductive.

Honestly, I firmly believe in the powers of drugs for dealing with severe mental illness, so personally I don't think that therapy alone is enough to cope with serious mental disorders like schizophrenia, but that decision is with you and your wife and I wish you guys luck. But I honestly don't think that taking this little girl off her thorazine will have anything but a horrible result and on second thought, her parents probably wouldn't appreciate hearing that as they've probably heard condemnation from a lot of people for putting their child on psychiatric drugs, no matter how badly she needs those drugs.

vitaexcolatur: but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

cretinbob: Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Mmm you are either a non-profit advocate for children or a Scientologist.

Taking bets, even odds!

vitaexcolatur: i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

WhyteRaven74: At one time, she'd have been seen as touched by God/the Holy Spirit. More recently, she'd be tied up in a cage, literally, in some sanitarium and likely beaten and what all else. While neither of those scenarios play out any longer, what we have for someone like her isn't a whole lot better.

If she lived back in times as recent as the 1960s she likely would have been given frequent ECT treatments and eventually lobotomized. After which she would have spent the rest of her "life" in an institution. She probably would have been forcibly sterilized too, to ensure she didn't pass on her insanity.

Girls in reform school, people in mental institutions and poor women selected by welfare workers were among the more than 2,500 Oregonians subjected to sterilizations under a law that stood from 1917 to 1983. Others were criminal offenders, sufferers of epilepsy or other conditions that required institutional care. Many were children.

Ashelth: cretinbob: Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Mmm you are either a non-profit advocate for children or a Scientologist.

Taking bets, even odds!

Methinks your reading comprehension is poor, as that post was merely stating the fact that childhood schizophrenia has been around for a long time but is generally misdiagnosed.

If he were a Scientologist, he'd have denied there was such a thing as schizophrenia and suggested that the kid take some vitamins.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

you also forget that we're chicks. i feel like i should welcome you to the club with a plaque or a certificate or at the very least, a secret handshake.

Pmoon: vitaexcolatur: i'll be the first to admit that i'm nowhere close to being an expert on anything even closely related to mental illness. i have family members who are bipolar, but i'm under the distinct impression that there are people who are chemically imbalanced and mental illnesses are derived from said imbalances. call me old fashioned, but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

maybe i'm way off the mark here, but i dunno. i had a point. i don't think i articulated it at all. meh.

My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

I had one of those too and he was ok, but in my experience a combination is best. The most success I've ever had was with a psychiatrist who also mandated a biweekly therapy session to deal with whatever my mood swings were making me feel. The therapist was also a part of her practice, so if my meds were off, the therapist would call the doctor in to consult and the three of us could determine how to alter my treatment plan. She was absolutely fantastic, and I wouldn't be healthy today without finding that doctor. I don't do therapy anymore, and am down to one drug and doctor visits every three months, but I got there because of a combo.

il Dottore: I was a psych nurse for 13 years.

Thorazine is for the psychotic symptoms
Tegretol potentiates the effects of Thorazine.
Lithium is a mood stabilizer and helps limit Limbic cycling (rage).

Haldol and Moban were antipsychotics popular in the 80s/90s but both have severe permanent side effects- and Neuroleptic Malignancy Syndrome.

I had adult patients on all these meds (at inpatient dosage) and it trashed them.

That poor little girl.

Yeah, that's what I thought as I read through.

Just so many drugs for a girl who's probably already irretrievably warped.

Genevieve Marie: I'm drawing a blank.

Same here.

I actually found that group sessions with a counsler to moderate worked well for me in addition to the drugs. Talking to other people with similar conditions was very helpful.

you know, from a total geek standpoint, i'd love to see her brain activity while under the influence of (what i can only imagine a myriad) cocktail meds. conversely, it'd be neat to also see how her brain functions without it and just have her sedated to monitor brainwaves. not saying she needs to be tested like some lab animal, but i think there could be a great deal learned by observing (which i'm sure has been done already) without harming her.

as far as her affinity for numbers, it reminds of the book "born on a blue day." some of the similarities are uncanny.

at the bottom line, this is truly a great article. again, thanks subby>. at the very least, this started a great conversation about the little girl and some sort of awareness.

GT_bike:
real question: don't bipolar and schizophrenia have a pretty large symptom indicator overlapping? IIRC from my college psych days and a few long term friends who have one or the other of the two.
Depending on which flavor of bipolar you are talking about, yes. And according to a link (new window) on the Geek tab yesterday bipolar disorder and schizophrenia may be cause by the same farked-up genes.

I decided a while back that my bipolar genes did not need to be passed on, but I think these two articles have combined to pretty well reduce my biological clock to a little pile of clockwork rubble.

based on the responses thus far, which is why I mentioned that this is not a safe place to post said opinons and such, I can see that by morning I'm going to be a Scientology Holocaust denier.

Just a theoretical consideration here no science other than the first portion...

We know that exersize releases endorphins in the brain which conribute to good mental well being.

What could a lack of exersize, sunlight, light, sight, stimulation, overstimulation, processed foods (anyone notice what Jani was eating? Look again) and other things do to the chemicals in the brain? So does training help? Do you want to meet a 33 year old self destructive autistic man I go to church with? Whom I accidentally helped "learn" to control his raging outbursts over infants crying? I totally disagree that learning tools and training are ineffective and that drugs are the only way.

Are there anti-dorphons? Most of the seritonin drugs act in a mystery mode zone that is as of now not fully explainable. Then again listen to the disclaimers from depression medication manufacturers. Teens can get increased thoughts of suicide etc...

I'm not judging Jani or her parents on using them at all nor am I Tom Crusing her drug perscriptions. Her situation and levels are not mine to determine that is for them and their doctors to determine. Goughing eyes out vs. denting doors and scratching arms are big differences.

My friend with schizophrenia is a doctor, yes he is, well podiatrist (I know, Seinfeld)! He is great but if he doesn't run his 5 miles per day and take his meds things get iffy.

What a terribly sad story. I've never heard of anyone that young with schizophrenia. Once upon a time, there was a phrase called "schizophrenegenic mother" which was a woman who, through neurotic behavior triggered schizophrenic episodes in their children (typically male) if they were prone. If it weren't already debunked, I would think a case like this would be clear cut evidenced of the neurochemistry involved.

maskedloser: /People like you seem to proliferate like maggots on this website.

You're such a courageous truth-teller!

I guarantee this girl is a genius. By the way she names her imaginary friends it sounds like she could already write a Chuck Palaniuk novel.

oh good grief. I can't believe you all buy this one. She saw numerous professionals who had different opinions before seeing a psychiatrist who thought it was schizophrenia. That doesn't mean it IS schizophrenia. It's a growing trend at the moment to diagnose very young kids with severe psych disorders like this and medicate them up to the eyeballs, but it doesn't make it true. In fact it's very worrying indeed. I remember an article a year or two ago which stated that ALL of the foster kids in the state of Texas are on pscyh meds. Don't any of you know how harmful these drugs are? OK one person who was a nurse commented on this and said it's awful.
And I seriously don't know how someone can take a BABY out to all those places for the first 18 months trying to tire them to sleep and claim it wasn't possible to "overstimulate" her. WTF do they think overstimulation means and what it does to a small baby / child? They probably entered into a downward spiral right there, like trying to put out a fire with petrol. My friend did this with her kid and 5 years on the girl was asked to leave a nursery, then had behavioural problems in school etc etc. Professionals determined that she was OVERSTIMULATED and that her mother was insensitive to her needs.

Gawdzila: Weird.
Schizophrenia is usually a late teens to twenties onset.

Chances are it isn't "schizophrenia." She's probably just (some just) completely psychotic and totally out of touch with reality. Given that there is severe mental illness on both sides of her family, my reaction based on no real research, just my own knowledge of the field, is that the poor thing caught a double dose of whatever recessive genes make for psychosis/schizophreniform disorder(s).

There's not likely to be much in the way of treatment for her, if that's the case. It's very sad.

Schizophrenia is a tragic, sad disease. Treating it is guesswork at best.

From my own wonderful experience I have to say that calling mental health treatment a suckfest is an insult to suckfests.

Sad story, wonder if they tried using weed, a lot of schizophrenics that used have found it seems to moderate their symptoms.

Feels like the author of the article was feeling bitter about missing some perceived calling to be a novelist or screenwriter. Seriously, what's with the overly dramatic ending? You're reporting news, not crafting the next Stephen King novel. And why do we need so many random, mundane details, like about the little brother "fussing" at various points? If I was the family reading over the article I'd probably feel rather embarrassed by the portrayal.

Mostly, I feel badly for the girl. My mother was diagnosed schizophrenic when I was 10, and you could say I had a rough childhood up until that point. However, almost 20 years later, my conversations with her are saner than those with any of the rest of my family. For all that they always liked to just write her off as crazy, I think she has perspectives on things that are a lot closer to the truth than people want to admit, when you take a moment to examine things, and I think it makes people more comfortable to simply write that off as paranoia or whatever else. So yeah, in response to the person who wondered whether the "crazy" people are the sane ones? I wonder that all the time, and sometimes I think it's entirely possible. Maybe that makes me crazy, too.

May be beneficial to try dietary intervention... The poor girl was eating little but bread/mac-and-cheese in the video. A 3% chance is worth a few days of testing.

Celiac Disease (wheat gluten allergy) may increase risk for schizophrenia; gluten-free diet may decrease schizophrenia symptoms for small number of people

JuicyJ: I guarantee this girl is a genius. By the way she names her imaginary friends it sounds like she could already write a Chuck Palaniuk novel.

because she named them after numbers and a day of the week? real imaginative... sounds like the kind of thing a dumb 6 year old would come up with.

So that's two six-year olds for the price of one? Sort of like getting a double-yolk.

I used to work in a crisis center for people with developmental disabilities - it was a lockdown unit for people who'd become dangerously violent or self-injurious. We had a girl who was about 12 years old, but with stunted growth that made her look more like 7, tops. She was the worst case of schizophrenia I'd ever seen. She was on freakishly high levels of medication, and on the nights we couldn't get her to take them, I swear she seemed possessed. She would literally climb walls - get a running start and get halfway up a wall before falling onto her back. She was obsessed with the idea of babies - we would warn new staff members *never* to talk about family, especially children, around her because she'd use their names later. "I'm gonna take your baby Lauren out of her crib and eat her." "If you ever have a baby in your belly I'm going to find you and rip it out and stomp on it."

'Twas a freakish thing. A lot of the people in that unit had problems that were managable - basically, we were a re-education unit because terrified and exhausted caretakers had basically taught these people that they could get whatever they wanted by attacking you, hurting themselves, trying to kill someone or destroy something, and our whole unit pretty much existed for the purpose of re-educating them in a structured environment. But every now and then we got people like this girl, and there was just no helping them. I don't think she'll ever get to live outside high-security lockdown units. It's really sad too, because when she's lucid, she's incredibly endearing and lovable. Schizophrenia is HELL.

My god, I'll never complain about the chicklets temper tantrums again. I can't imagine going through that every day.

tl;dr



Just kidding, that was a great article. I'm glad it showed up early this morning so I could read it at work. I showed a couple of nurses and they were fascinated with it. I can't even really wrap myself around this. My uncle has schizophrenia and it really is something terrible that has to be seen first hand to really grasp. He was a hot shot accountant and very smart and then one day -bam-. It's been a few years and he's difficult to be around. He goes through episodes where he'll go for a full Jesus look and then the following month he just shaves his head and other weird things.

Anyways, thanks Subby

RevMercutio: The things that strike me are that both parents also have (admittedly minor) mental health issues as well. If anything, this cements my desire that if I am to have children, I'd rather adopt than force the kid to bear my bloodline's iniquities.

Don't blame the parents. They didn't ask for this and they can't walk away from it either. Who wouldn't have problems themselves if they had to deal with that kid every day?

I blame the system. If they don't have a place to put the child, her city or county should build one. City after city has gotten rid of residential mental health facilities due to budget considerations. There are probably many other mentally ill kids in the community that could use the services. What the system is doing is the equivalent of giving a kid who's sick enough to be in the ICU to a family to take care of without any support. I'm outraged by this.

Accidentally crash your car into a tree.

Rat: so, when she looks in the mirror does the conversation go like this?

You STFU!

No, you STFU!!!

©

You talkin' to me?

when i was working child in-patient a long time ago, one of the youngest the psychiatrist diagnosed with schizophrenia was 4. if a clinician can make a case for any of the diagnostic criteria, and they add up, then that's the way it is. it's one of the problems with psych diagnosis: no objective, physical tests like blood sugar for diabetes, etc.

\the scientologists, unfortunately, are correct about the chemical imbalance thing, too. that doesn't mean their alternative is superior, let alone correct.

beoswulf: Sad story, wonder if they tried using weed, a lot of schizophrenics that used have found it seems to moderate their symptoms.

[citation needed]
.........¥o/...........

Bathia_Mapes: MissFeasance: That poor little girl. And her poor family.

Indeed. That article came extremely close to making me cry.

That article made me cry, I never cry.

I worked with a pharmacist who had schizophrenia - she was in her late twenties and it just got worse as time went on. The first year she was constantly paranoid that people didn't like her or were talking about her. Then she started accusing people of trying to hypnotize her - there were certain words that would make her snap because they were "hypnotizing words". They were random: stick, water melon, chicken nugget, purple, etc... It was like a landmine because nobody ever knew when they would accidentally say one of those words and send her into a rage. She would write the phrase "false witness" on note pads and on the white board - that was a pretty good indicator that she was having a bad day. She did pretty well when she took her medication, but would periodically refuse to take it and would have those violent episodes.

Her husband ended up divorcing her, she lost her pharmacy license, and last I've heard she is living in home for the mentally disabled. She would have 2-3 weeks of "good days" and then 2-3 days of hallucinogenic insanity. She would be about 35 now. schizophrenia is no joke - I can't think of much that would be worse.

What a 400 the Cat may look like:

What a sad and horrible situation. The suggestions that keep floating around my brain are ones listed earlier: dietary modification, sleep deprivation, parental training. I know we shouldn't blame the parents, but if both sides of a family have cystic fibrosis or sickle cell, isn't the conventional wisdom not to procreate? I'm not being a troll, truly. If my kid with brain damage doesn't get 10-12 hours of sleep, he get hallucinations also. So, yeah, we have a scrip for anytime he goes more than 24 hours without sleep. Fortunately, he was diagnosed early and we got training early about the need for routines and boundaries. Maybe this little girl's brain was damaged prior to birth, during birth, or immediately after birth. Are there any brain images, like CT or MRI, that could track her brain? Do they keep any kind of a food diary or restrictions on chemicals and dyes that she is ingesting? These parents need more help than just drugs and incarceration. Keep searching, don't give up, ever. One of my kids has cerebral palsy, which was missed for 4 years! Talk about frustrating, but very illuminating.

/sorry for the rambling.
//poor kid

lindseyp: beoswulf: Sad story, wonder if they tried using weed, a lot of schizophrenics that used have found it seems to moderate their symptoms.

[citation needed]
.........¥o/...........
I was going off purely anecdotal not-evidence, but google is your friend.


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90776


The surprising finding that THC might help at least a small percentage of schizophrenia patients for whom conventional treatments have failed was reported in the June issue of the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology.

One word - clozapine.

deanoooo812: One word - clozapine.

That shiat is vicious but I have met someone where that was their medication of last resort and they knew they needed it. Pharmacies won't can't dispense it without the hospital/prescribing doctor sending over the patient's bloodwork.

As a female who went undiagnosed bipolar/add (symptoms of both and meds for both seem to work, rolling with it) until the suicide attempt, I feel for this child. At least she was recognized as having symptoms in childhood rather than being deemed "dramatic".

With her dx, even if private insurers won't help (criminal, imo) this is the person our tax dollars go to help with state medicaid programs.

More than diet/vitamins/bullshiat woo like that, she needs routine and until she can do it herself, her caretakers/parents need to learn her triggers. Dealing with mental disorders on your own requires a huge amount of mental discipline which is something I can't really see a six year old possessing.

Genevieve Marie: Pmoon: My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

I had one of those too and he was ok, but in my experience a combination is best. The most success I've ever had was with a psychiatrist who also mandated a biweekly therapy session to deal with whatever my mood swings were making me feel. The therapist was also a part of her practice, so if my meds were off, the therapist would call the doctor in to consult and the three of us could determine how to alter my treatment plan. She was absolutely fantastic, and I wouldn't be healthy today without finding that doctor. I don't do therapy anymore, and am down to one drug and doctor visits every three months, but I got there because of a combo.

My very first doctor was of the "and how did that make you feel?" variety while accomplishing eff-all for my treatment. I remember making crap up near the end of my visits with her because I was so fed up with her new-age whisper voice and inability to say something worthwhile. The next doctor was like the one Pmoon described, except for some weird insistence on asking every visit if I was engaging in any sexual activity (sex or masturbation). I eventually complained to my parents about it and somehow we ended up at a small, specialized practice nearly identical to Genevieve Marie's experience. It was nothing short of amazing. Having the two doctors work in tandem helped me stabilize, even to the point now where I no longer have to be on medication to function "normally" (quotes because I'm still the weird one in my circle and I still have very bad days, though nothing like the ones I had before therapy). Granted, I'm officially diagnosed with the least-severe form of bipolarity, but I firmly believe that it was the combination of therapy and drugs (used as a starting point, not as a final solution) that essentially saved my life.

Hokay, I'm vacating the soapbox after I post the "tl;dr" version...

I sincerely believe in the two-pronged approach to treating mental illness: the combination of medications used as a starting point and effective therapy to lessen the dependence on said medications. I understand that most cases aren't like mine, but it really burns my butt to know that insurance companies won't pay for therapy sessions because they'd rather just medicate the crap out of you and call it done. That needs to change.

I wish the best for January and all people who are dealing with mental illnesses. Like people before me have said, I wouldn't wish a mental illness on my worst enemy.

/steps off the soapbox to go find something that will make her smile

mfaby: cretinbob 2009-07-02 10:02:41 PM
Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Did you ever bother to read the article?

This is rare. And no, there is NO history of this being misdiagnosed ADHA or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Yes, twice. And I'm going to print it out for work.


Maybe you should have read it all the way through.

FTA:

The Schofields consulted doctors and heard myriad opinions: bipolar disorder, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, ineffective parenting. No one considered schizophrenia.


Even people who work with kids like this tend to think the kids can control their behaviors and do things for attention. Yes, they do group them in with the conduct disorder kids, since most cases are not at severe as this kid. They miss the disorganized speech patterns and behaviors.
It may be rare in your world, but not mine.


Ashelth: cretinbob: Not now subby, but for a long time. Usually it's overlooked as ADHD or ODD or just being a bad kid.

Mmm you are either a non-profit advocate for children or a Scientologist.

Taking bets, even odds!

I'm not a scientologist, and I can't tell you what I do because my wifes psychotic ex-husband is stalking us again. You think after 15 years he'd give up.
But I'm not a scientologist, and I'm not liberal enough to be a child advocate. They are like the clear cut logging, gun toting bastion of liberalism.

holy cheesecake: deanoooo812: One word - clozapine.

That shiat is vicious but I have met someone where that was their medication of last resort and they knew they needed it. Pharmacies won't can't dispense it without the hospital/prescribing doctor sending over the patient's bloodwork.

As a female who went undiagnosed bipolar/add (symptoms of both and meds for both seem to work, rolling with it) until the suicide attempt, I feel for this child. At least she was recognized as having symptoms in childhood rather than being deemed "dramatic".

With her dx, even if private insurers won't help (criminal, imo) this is the person our tax dollars go to help with state medicaid programs.

More than diet/vitamins/bullshiat woo like that, she needs routine and until she can do it herself, her caretakers/parents need to learn her triggers. Dealing with mental disorders on your own requires a huge amount of mental discipline which is something I can't really see a six year old possessing.

this

lindseyp: citation needed

Are you lost? This is Fark, not Wikipedia. You can get citations there.

I only briefly scanned the story. It reminded me too much of my brother when he was young. He was diagnosed with schizophrenaform when he was like 3 or 4. Nothing like waking up to hear him babble about the people in the walls telling him to eat us. Or that he was going to swallow the whole world and kill everyone. My mom's favorite is when he was five and told her he was going to eviscerate her in her sleep. He was also extremely violent and flew into rages at a moments notice. My mother had several broken bones from him. He also once threw everything in his room at my mom when he was six, including his dresser and bed. I spent many an evening with my back bracing my bedroom door shut to prevent him from getting me while my mom was calling to let the psych ward know she was bringing him in.
/He is better now and in a home.
//Some of the hardest eight years for my mom, he is 21 now.

nebjammer: How can she get AIDS at 6 years old?

I think you're confused. Schizophrenia is just the virus that *causes* AIDS. It's not actually AIDS. And the progression from schizophrenia to AIDS can be slowed considerably by medication.

chestylaruegal: I only briefly scanned the story. It reminded me too much of my brother when he was young. He was diagnosed with schizophrenaform when he was like 3 or 4. Nothing like waking up to hear him babble about the people in the walls telling him to eat us. Or that he was going to swallow the whole world and kill everyone. My mom's favorite is when he was five and told her he was going to eviscerate her in her sleep. He was also extremely violent and flew into rages at a moments notice. My mother had several broken bones from him. He also once threw everything in his room at my mom when he was six, including his dresser and bed. I spent many an evening with my back bracing my bedroom door shut to prevent him from getting me while my mom was calling to let the psych ward know she was bringing him in.
/He is better now and in a home.
//Some of the hardest eight years for my mom, he is 21 now.

He sounds like a smart kid, I had to look up what eviscerate means.

/why are the psychos always the gifted ones?

Oh man, I got something in my eye. Bipolar disorder runs in my family on my mother's side. So I know all too well how psychological disorders can royally fark up a family.

Rockstone: chestylaruegal: ... My mom's favorite is when he was five and told her he was going to eviscerate her in her sleep. He was also extremely violent and flew into rages at a moments notice. ...

He sounds like a smart kid, I had to look up what eviscerate means.

/why are the psychos always the gifted ones?

He is a very smart kid. The thing that pisses him off the most is that he can't read. It is the only thing he really wants in life. But between his brain damage and his age, it just won't happen.
I think the psychos are gifted because you have different parts of your brain going and also because you don't have to be a part of society and be a set cog. You can be different and brilliant, but there is a cost to everything.

/If I remember right my mom had to look up the word as well when he said it to her.

Genevieve Marie: I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

I was diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder for almost 15 years until I had some other issues and had a blood work up done from an endocrinologist. Turns out I had an adrenal dysfunction. Haven't been on psychotropic meds for about 4 years now, but I cannot forget to take my adrenal drung or all the symptoms come roaring right back. Interestingly, lamictal can have effects on the adrenal system. While there is good research going on about what causes mental illnesses, I think they are concentrating far too much on the brain and not enough on the other body systems that can affect brain chemistry. PMDD is a prime example.

My son, who is 13 now, was suffering from some pretty bizarre symptoms by second grade. We were lucky he didn't have any psychosis or violent behaviors. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He hit puberty and almost all of his symptoms abated. I can only hope this family has a similar experience.

Genevieve Marie: vitaexcolatur: but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me. Also, it helps when I'm careful about my sleep patterns.

And as I'm posting at 3 am, I predict I will cry for no reason by some point next week.

I am a bit late to this party (I was sleeping at 3 am), but I have a 17 year old with bipolar disorder. His sounds a bit more serious than yours - some psychosis, more mania, and the mania tends to be more violent than happy. He is a lot better now than he was. Still not great, but somewhat better. We had a period last fall where he was at Emerg 8 times in 2 months for attempted/ideated suicide. He had 5 admissions a year ago this spring.

He needs a lot of support right now. His meds are fairly helpful. He is on a couple of mood stabilizers. He needs to learn how to deal with adversity still, how to stick with something that is frustrating without getting all nuts, to learn that he CAN cope with things better than he could a year ago, and is stronger than he knows.

The start of it was the meds though, no question. We have been trying to deal with him for years without them, and nothing helped at all. He was finally diagnosed last fall, and that was the start of things actually improving.

One year of having fits, tantrums, hitting, cutting and burning (of self), voices in his head, people floating in his room, waving of knives, O/Ds was enough to make me nearly lose my own sanity. I can't imagine what these poor parents in the article are dealing with.

Oh. My. God.

There's a kid at my school who behaves JUST LIKE THIS. The teachers have been saying he's Schizophrenic for months, but obviously we're not mental health professionals and aren't qualified to diagnose it.

But OMG. He's in kindergarten and he's so incredibly violent, and then WHAM he's introspective and calm, and then WHAM he's talking to nobody, and then freaking out again...

And his parents swear that he's totally normal at home. Right.

Evil Canadian: The start of it was the meds though, no question. We have been trying to deal with him for years without them, and nothing helped at all. He was finally diagnosed last fall, and that was the start of things actually improving.

With my kiddo I found that the meds removed some of the irrationality so that talking to him actually worked and he was able to reason things out MUCH more easily. The meds also curbed some of the impulsive behaviors. He still had to go back and unlearn the unhealthy coping skills he'd come up with and relearn healthy ones. Meds are the end all be all answer, but they are certainly a great tool.

GRRR.. Meds are NOT the end all answer.

Rockstone: He sounds like a smart kid, I had to look up what eviscerate means.

chestylaruegal: He is a very smart kid. The thing that pisses him off the most is that he can't read.

Ugh. This is what I mean about thinking all mentally ill people are 'smart' just because they know a big word. How can one be very smart if you can't read.

Pmoon: My last "shrink" was an M.D. whose specialty was treating chemical imbalances with drugs, He was very good at diagnosing people and prescribing. There was not much talking except for him to get a feel for how the drugs were working. Very sharp guy, one of the best doctors that I ever had for "mental illness".

Wouldn't happen to have been in San Jose would it? I'm in need of someone like that.

Genevieve Marie: vitaexcolatur: but i truly think that levels of chemicals in the brain manifest into illnesses like schizophrenia and no amount of "training the mind" of a mentally ill person can at best, diminish the effects.

I'm with you on that. My bipolar disorder is of the very mild variety (no psychosis, more depression than mania) but it still wasn't manageable until I found a mood stabilizer that worked for me

I concur.

I did a research paper in an abnormal psych class on schizophrenia and its relation to a type of glutamate receptor in the brain called an NMDA receptor. There are a number of striking relationships between schizophrenia symptoms and glutamate deficiencies.

It is often related to other neurotransmitters (serotonin and dopamine) due to certain amphetamines producing schizoid-like effects, but treatments that affect those neurotransmitters are only about 20% effective, and often only help the positive symptoms, not negative ones; glutamate-based treatments can affect both. Clearly it isn't a settled issue, though, and research is still ongoing.

lstywnch: GRRR.. Meds are NOT the end all answer.

Neither is psychotherapy.

Sometimes brain chemistry and structure simply can not be affected enough by simply talking to your shrink about it. Mental disorders are just as much a "physical" illness as muscular dystrophy or an auto-immune disorder. It is a mistake to separate the two so cleanly; a mental disorder is just a physical disorder that is in the brain. And, like physical disorders, sometimes you can cure them with physical therapy (psychotherapy), and sometimes you need surgery (psychoactive drugs).

Bomb Mecca: Rockstone: He sounds like a smart kid, I had to look up what eviscerate means.

chestylaruegal: He is a very smart kid. The thing that pisses him off the most is that he can't read.

Ugh. This is what I mean about thinking all mentally ill people are 'smart' just because they know a big word. How can one be very smart if you can't read.

He survives by memorizing EVERYTHING. If he has seen it once, he knows it word for word. If it heard it once, he will remember it and ask you about it three years later. He once asked my mom who the lady with the bright curly red hair was, my mom finally figured out he was talking about someone who visited 5 years earlier. He is brilliant and can figure out anything, he just can't read. When he was three he asked where the thing that you measure the temperature of your feet with went. It took my mom and aunt a couple of minutes to realize he meant the bathroom scale. After that it became a joke that "My feet must be really hot today".
I know of several mentally ill people who are not smart at all and I know several normal people that aren't smart as well. Everyone is different and entitled to their opinion.

Tackboard: This just proves that her and her family are not praying enough.

Give them a break--the last time we had a problem like this, it took a charismatic rabbi and a herd of pigs to fix it.

kemidra: I used to work in a crisis center for people with developmental disabilities - it was a lockdown unit for people who'd become dangerously violent or self-injurious. We had a girl who was about 12 years old, but with stunted growth that made her look more like 7, tops. She was the worst case of schizophrenia I'd ever seen. She was on freakishly high levels of medication, and on the nights we couldn't get her to take them, I swear she seemed possessed. She would literally climb walls - get a running start and get halfway up a wall before falling onto her back. She was obsessed with the idea of babies - we would warn new staff members *never* to talk about family, especially children, around her because she'd use their names later. "I'm gonna take your baby Lauren out of her crib and eat her." "If you ever have a baby in your belly I'm going to find you and rip it out and stomp on it."

'Twas a freakish thing. A lot of the people in that unit had problems that were managable - basically, we were a re-education unit because terrified and exhausted caretakers had basically taught these people that they could get whatever they wanted by attacking you, hurting themselves, trying to kill someone or destroy something, and our whole unit pretty much existed for the purpose of re-educating them in a structured environment. But every now and then we got people like this girl, and there was just no helping them. I don't think she'll ever get to live outside high-security lockdown units. It's really sad too, because when she's lucid, she's incredibly endearing and lovable. Schizophrenia is HELL.

My sister's granddaughter, whom she has adopted because the child's bio-parents are druggies and criminals, is 12, but physically appears more like 10. She was born with drugs in her system, and has always showed signs of developmental problems (still sucks her thumb).

But recently she suddenly started having "Spells" where she begins to talk like a little girl (usually, she speaks normally, and has average intellegence), goes into rages/tantrums that can last for a couple of hours, has auditory hallucinations and claims that "things" will get her if she's left by herself. When the "spell" is over, she's back to being a regular girl, as if nothing had happened.

The children do have medical insurance and she's had a short stay at behavioral medicine hospital, but her doctors seem to think that she's just behaving badly. It's putting a terrible strain on her family.

No drugs have yet been prescribed.I brought-up the possibility of early on-set schiz., but was told that she didn't fit the profile. I pray that she's given some drugs soon, at least to calm her during these episodes.

I've read all the post, hoping to find something that might help, but mostly it seems that getting help is an up-hill crap-shoot.

I can see how people like her used to be viewed as "possessed"---she's like two different people in one body.

Gawdzila: Neither is psychotherapy.

Sometimes brain chemistry and structure simply can not be affected enough by simply talking to your shrink about it. Mental disorders are just as much a "physical" illness as muscular dystrophy or an auto-immune disorder. It is a mistake to separate the two so cleanly; a mental disorder is just a physical disorder that is in the brain. And, like physical disorders, sometimes you can cure them with physical therapy (psychotherapy), and sometimes you need surgery (psychoactive drugs).

That was the point of my post above this one where I corrected a word I omitted.

yaaaay! Another reason to give medicine to kids that the idiot parents claim to be unable to handle

Gyrfalcon: Gawdzila: Weird.
Schizophrenia is usually a late teens to twenties onset.

Chances are it isn't "schizophrenia." She's probably just (some just) completely psychotic and totally out of touch with reality. Given that there is severe mental illness on both sides of her family, my reaction based on no real research, just my own knowledge of the field, is that the poor thing caught a double dose of whatever recessive genes make for psychosis/schizophreniform disorder(s).

Where did it say that? Did I miss something?

/yes, I did RTFA

chicagorefugee: Gyrfalcon: Gawdzila: Weird.
Schizophrenia is usually a late teens to twenties onset.

Chances are it isn't "schizophrenia." She's probably just (some just) completely psychotic and totally out of touch with reality. Given that there is severe mental illness on both sides of her family, my reaction based on no real research, just my own knowledge of the field, is that the poor thing caught a double dose of whatever recessive genes make for psychosis/schizophreniform disorder(s).

Where did it say that? Did I miss something?

/yes, I did RTFA

It's on page four, but makes no mention of severity. Not sure if that's the only time it comes up, though.

The group discusses the stress on the couple. Both Michael and Susan have relatives who were mentally ill, and both struggle with depression and take antidepressants. They receive no help from their families.

lstywnch: That was the point of my post above this one where I corrected a word I omitted.

Oh, HAHA! Leave it to me to mistake the correction for the post.
My bad, sorry :)