Free Radical: Cleveland will need a bit more than Shaq to compete with a healthy Boston and an improved Orlando next year.

ZoSo_the_Crowe:
I'd still consider a healthy Boston the favorites in the East. They're a COMPLETELY different team with a healthy Garnett.


What makes you think Boston is going to be healthy next year? In 2010 KG is going to be 35 and Ray Allen will be 36. Even if they were healthy, those guys are at the "pushing their luck phase" of their careers.

/Love KG
//Love Ray Allen
///Hate Boston

it's a sad day when i agree with Bill Plaschke...

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Wombatzu: it's a sad day when i agree with Bill Plaschke...

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Yes it is. Plaschke is a complete idiot. Doesn't reflect well! :)

I disagree with Plaschke comparing this to 2004.

The Lakers beat Detroit with a healthy Karl Malone. The Lakers also beat Detroit if Kobe doesn't get all ballhoggy and simply feeds Shaq constantly, as Shaq was UNBELIEVABLY efficient on offense in that series, while Kobe was too busy taking shots with 3 hands in his face to give him the ball. And finally, Detroit won that series by simply running a very old team ragged. Chemistry had nothing to do with it.

ZoSo_the_Crowe: I disagree with Plaschke comparing this to 2004.

The Lakers beat Detroit with a healthy Karl Malone. The Lakers also beat Detroit if Kobe doesn't get all ballhoggy and simply feeds Shaq constantly, as Shaq was UNBELIEVABLY efficient on offense in that series, while Kobe was too busy taking shots with 3 hands in his face to give him the ball. And finally, Detroit won that series by simply running a very old team ragged. Chemistry had nothing to do with it.

Gary Payton was very ineffective within the triangle offense which also didn't help.
That's why Kobe was taking shots, noone else would and Shaq started slowing down in the 4th, not to mention his foul trouble.

Free Radical: Gary Payton was very ineffective within the triangle offense which also didn't help.
That's why Kobe was taking shots, noone else would and Shaq started slowing down in the 4th, not to mention his foul trouble.

Jordan would have just played point guard and fed Shaq for 3 quarters then. I love Kobe but I'll always blame him for that loss.

ZoSo_the_Crowe: He's the Ray Lewis of the NBA: he DEMANDS that everyone around him match his defensive intensity, and he's not the kind of guy you want to let down.

Just to be clear, we are talking about how KG stabbed that dude right?

ZoSo_the_Crowe: I'd still consider a healthy Boston the favorites in the East. They're a COMPLETELY different team with a healthy Garnett.

I dunno. I know I'm not a big Boston fan, but that team is getting damn farking old. Also, while they won the NBA finals they did have a bunch of tough series they could have lost a year ago. Two years later plus two years of aging... I'm not sure they are favorites. Especially if Orlando and Cavs make more moves, which they will.

Goldeneye007: except that Artest in his prime wasn't anywhere near good as a poor man's rodman on offense, defense, or on the boards. I can vaguely remember Artest bricking every 3 pointer he took for the rockets in the 2nd round.

Did you just use Rodman and offense in the same sentence? That guy used to routinely miss layups.

Bill Frist: I dunno. I know I'm not a big Boston fan, but that team is getting damn farking old. Also, while they won the NBA finals they did have a bunch of tough series they could have lost a year ago. Two years later plus two years of aging... I'm not sure they are favorites. Especially if Orlando and Cavs make more moves, which they will.

You know that absolutely SCARY defensive intensity Boston consistently showed in the playoffs the year they won it all? Like, when they'd just flip a switch and all of the sudden go on like a 20 possession series where they'd force like 5-10 turnovers, at least 2 24-second violations, and a bunch of bad shots, and all of the sudden they're up by 20? And how they seemed to do this almost every game?

I saw flashes of that scariness in this year's playoffs. They were few and far between, but they were present enough to make me believe that with Garnett back, they're still capable of playing like they did in 2008.

Er, to slightly correct my last post, they consistently showed that scariness in the games they needed to win last year.

Hedo has agreed to sign with the Trailblazers...

so, i guess:

Blake
Roy
Turkoglu
Aldrige
Oden

meh.

ZoSo_the_Crowe: Bill Frist: I dunno. I know I'm not a big Boston fan, but that team is getting damn farking old. Also, while they won the NBA finals they did have a bunch of tough series they could have lost a year ago. Two years later plus two years of aging... I'm not sure they are favorites. Especially if Orlando and Cavs make more moves, which they will.

You know that absolutely SCARY defensive intensity Boston consistently showed in the playoffs the year they won it all? Like, when they'd just flip a switch and all of the sudden go on like a 20 possession series where they'd force like 5-10 turnovers, at least 2 24-second violations, and a bunch of bad shots, and all of the sudden they're up by 20? And how they seemed to do this almost every game?

I saw flashes of that scariness in this year's playoffs. They were few and far between, but they were present enough to make me believe that with Garnett back, they're still capable of playing like they did in 2008.

They benefited from the same thing that the Suns did the season they lost the conf finals to the Mavs beating a better Clippers and Lakers team on the way there from 3-1 deficits. Their bench players played extremely well for a bunch of stiffs and Rondo did what Ariza did, overachieving.

Not to mention the refs looked the other way at the physical play when on their home court, but that's the benefit of home court in the NBA, since the Celtics were taken to task by everyone in the Eastern conference playoffs away from their home court.

Plaschke's a fool. He compared acquiring an "old 29" year old player with 36 and 41 year old veterans, as if the teams had the same issues. The mantra, "Defense wins championships", almost always rings true, and Artest will not upset that chemistry. Ron can create better offensively than Ariza. Ask a Rockets fan who they would rather have in a big role. BP fails to mention how role players (who have been let go by other teams) already get to produce for the Lakers in the form of wide-open shots when defenses have to focus on Kobe and Gasol. Plasch is looking for attention for his uneducated take on a subject once again. He should've tried to play a little ball to understand how the game works, instead of infusing old drama.

What did Ariza do in the league before he came to the Lakers? Trevor will be good, but will have to open up his game in Houston. He played well the whole time in LA (I've been a big fan), but Kupchak is doing what he needs to as GM. If it was a straight up trade, Artest for Ariza, I don't believe you would hear too many competent folks saying the Lakers are clueless. As far as transactions are concerned, the past few by LA have worked fairly well, including acquiring Ariza and Shannon Brown.

As far as the 2004 team is concerned, Detroit matched up well and had the perfect game plan to dominate our squad. They threw double teams at Kobe, and Ben Wallace was still able to body Shaq. Chauncey Billups worked us over, in the same fashion as he's done this season with Denver. Our bigs were too slow to close out on their jump-shooting forwards. Before signing Payton and Malone, the problem with team chemistry was having enough shots to go around for everyone. So, our GM got two past-their-prime players, used to averaging 25+ points a game apiece, in order to ameliorate that situation? Did I mention the injuries that year, as well? Give credit where credit is due. The Pistons were the best team that season, much like the Lakers were this year.

Plaschke is clueless. The same deal Ariza got in Houston was on the table for him in LA. And the signing in Houston proves that Ariza's market value was the same as what the Lakers offered.

Lakers can't afford more than the MLE because they still need to sign Odom, so rather than risk having to use Walton as a starting forward next year, they make the deal that's available to them.

All that and Phil Jackson has announced he'll be back next year.

DamnYankees: Wombatzu: it's a sad day when i agree with Bill Plaschke...

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Yes it is. Plaschke is a complete idiot. Doesn't reflect well! :)

How do people NOT understand that we COULD NOT GIVE ARIZA THE MONEY HE WANTED? Its not like we kicked him out the door and signed artest to some huge contract. Rather, Ariza was trying to get more money (which he just narrowly did), and ended up screwing himself out of another ring, where as artest was ok with taking the pay cut.

I dont know if the Lakers will win the title next year but i know they have a better chance than the rockets. And with artest gone, and maybe yao ming too...im sure he will have a blast with the rockets.

/Liked Ariza
//nothing we can do about it now
///good luck

Stroke_N_Focus: DamnYankees: Wombatzu: it's a sad day when i agree with Bill Plaschke...

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Yes it is. Plaschke is a complete idiot. Doesn't reflect well! :)

How do people NOT understand that we COULD NOT GIVE ARIZA THE MONEY HE WANTED? Its not like we kicked him out the door and signed artest to some huge contract. Rather, Ariza was trying to get more money (which he just narrowly did), and ended up screwing himself out of another ring, where as artest was ok with taking the pay cut.

I dont know if the Lakers will win the title next year but i know they have a better chance than the rockets. And with artest gone, and maybe yao ming too...im sure he will have a blast with the rockets.

/Liked Ariza
//nothing we can do about it now
///good luck

i don't think anyone has shown that Ariza wanted more money than the MLE... he certainly didn't hold out for it elsewhere.

i think what happened is that the Lakers front office and Ariza's agent got in a pissing contest and everyone ended up losing, except for Artest, who now has a huge spotlight on him.

the Lakers FO should have taken a deep breath and let everyone cool off instead of hitting the Artest Button.

Ariza didn't hold out for more money elsewhere because there were no offers for more money, no matter what David Lee would have you believe.

ZoSo_the_Crowe:
I saw flashes of that scariness in this year's playoffs. They were few and far between, but they were present enough to make me believe that with Garnett back, they're still capable of playing like they did in 2008.

Eh, full props to the celtics for winning last year, but a lot of stars aligned for them to do so. THe east was weak as hell with only a deteriorating Pistons really in the way and then the Lakers underachieved.

Again, two years of age of the Celtics already really old core, plus an improving east all around (assuming not too many major injuries) and I just don't see them as the favorites.

Its been said over and over that Ariza wanted more than MLE, since he couldnt get it with the lakers he shopped around, Lakers sign artest for the MLE and then ariza realized he had to go somewhere else and went with houston when he couldnt get higher than the MLE.

Even tho his agent claims Toronto offered him more than the MLE.

Artest has been a glue guy on teams more than a cancer since he left Indiana. The Lakers have a relatively short window, since Kobe is on the wrong side of thirty with a lot of miles on his tires. As others have said, a few high profile good games on a big stage, and Ariza is slightly overrated. Kobe no longer belongs in the conversation for best player in the world, but that's just because nobody is even in Lebron's zip code, but this gives the Lakers a solid chance to defend their title.

What makes Lebron better than Kobe? I'd like to hear the argument.

Curt Blizzah: What makes Lebron better than Kobe? I'd like to hear the argument.

His puppet looks and sounds like him.

Kobe is a perimeter player who shoots too low a percentage for the number of shots he takes. He is prone to cold nights where he flat kills the team. Players that rely on mid range jump shots for the bulk of their scoring are inherently less valuable than players like Lebron who score most of their points driving into the paint.

bighasbeen: puppet looks and sounds like him.

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tooeasy: Kobe is a perimeter player who shoots too low a percentage for the number of shots he takes. He is prone to cold nights where he flat kills the team. Players that rely on mid range jump shots for the bulk of their scoring are inherently less valuable than players like Lebron who score most of their points driving into the paint.

For all of the hype around LeBron and what an amazing ECF stat line he was putting up, Kobe's finals stat line was actually more efficient, and well, who has the ring?

Curt Blizzah: What makes Lebron better than Kobe? I'd like to hear the argument.

He didn't allegedly rape some hotel maid.

/Michael Jordan >>>>>>>> Stern's wannabes

legion_of_doo: /Michael Jordan >>>>>>>> other Stern's wannabes

FTFY