rumpelstiltskin: Now the French, they had a Revolution. We were big on words, but they did the deeds.

So, you're saying we needed to behead the landed gentry, force metric time on the populace, have increasingly virulent squabbles over power until the revolutionaries turned on each other, and decend into chaos until a strongarm dictator restored the monarchy and precipitated the continent into an overarching war of conquest?

I think I'm okay with our version.

vernonFL: Fun Fact: The United States of America became an independent country in 1783.

Pfft. That's a stretch. We declared independence and started acting independently. 1783 was when *other* nations conceded our independence from England.

From Wiki:

The American Congress of the Confederation ratified the treaty of Paris on January 14, 1784, and copies were sent back to Europe for ratification by the other parties involved, the first reaching France in March. British ratification occurred on April 9, 1784, and the ratified versions were exchanged in Paris on May 12, 1784. It was not for some time, though, that the Americans in the countryside received the news due to the lack of communication.

Hang On Voltaire: The guy never claimed there was a war on the Fourth. He merely said people should remember what the day is about.


Well, according to YOU, it's about being the fourth day in July,

It's Independence Day morans!

Merry December 25th!
And a Happy January First!

vernonFL: From Wiki:

The American Congress of the Confederation ratified the treaty of Paris on January 14, 1784, and copies were sent back to Europe for ratification by the other parties involved, the first reaching France in March. British ratification occurred on April 9, 1784, and the ratified versions were exchanged in Paris on May 12, 1784. It was not for some time, though, that the Americans in the countryside received the news due to the lack of communication.

Which is kinda what I just said, eh?

We declared independence. We didn't ask for permission -- permission was not necessary. The Treaty of Paris was just *other* countries recognizing what we'd already declared.

From the people who brought you the Wars on Christmas and Easter? You mean, atheists are declaring war on the 4th of July?

In Norway, we celebrate the 17th of May, and we like it. Anyone who has a problem with it, gets a trout showed up their ass.

ivars: In Norway, we celebrate the 17th of May, and we like it. Anyone who has a problem with it, gets a trout showed up their ass.

(phones start ringing off the hook at the Norwegian Tourist Council....)

I'm not arguing, I just think that really 99% of Americans don't know the history of the American Revolution.

I live in Baltimore, right next to Federal Hill and Fort McHenry.

I volunteered at Fort McHenry for a summer and almost every tourist there was grossly misinformed about the American Revolution.

Hang On Voltaire: RemyDuron: rumpelstiltskin: HiFiGuy: If it weren't for lefty radicals, we'd have no Independence Day to be celebrating.

HeHeHe. Yeah. Our Revolution was the local aristocrats kicking out the distant aristocrats and saying, "we own the rights to fark the poor around here, not you." It wasn't so much a revolution as it was a Mafia-style takeover of the neighborhood numbers game and prostitution trade.
Now the French, they had a Revolution. We were big on words, but they did the deeds.

And they ended up with an expansionist dictator and we ended up having a democratic republic of unprecedented size and stability.

The French Revolutionaries were ideologues, the Founding Fathers were idealists with a strong pragmatic streak. I much prefer a crafty bastard like Hamilton to the heads of the French revolution who expected the strength of their ideology and passion to carry them through. Instead they ended up, after cutting off a few heads that needed it, cutting off a ton more heads just to provide scapegoats, and eventually cutting off each others' heads.

Very good analysis. The idea that people like Hamiton or Franklin or Adams were somehow aristocrats is ridiculous.

Well, I don't think they were exactly populists or egalitarians to the degree of the French, but you really can't argue with the results. I really respect the Founding Fathers, and although I'm far from the most patriotic person I'll always think they were pretty damn smart.

They realized that the best way to have a government that did not end up fighting the people was to have a government that fights itself (The three competing branches with checks and balances). And it's annoying as hell in practice, I couldn't count the times I've thought, "Our system of government is ridiculously inefficient." And it is. And that probably keeps some of the best ideas from actually being implemented. But it also keeps the worst ideas from being implemented. That's democracy, one big annoying convoluted compromise that still manages to work better than everything else.

They also realized that sometimes democracy is not the answer, as the tyranny of the majority can be particularly vicious. It really is a brilliant system, and the fact it's lasted as long as it has without any significant interruptions is pretty amazing.

I pretty much covered this here.My blog, don't wanna type it twice. Read Snark and otherwise make comments. But I think I covered most of the Freedom hate on both sides (new window)

Ambitwistor: From the people who brought you the Wars on Christmas and Easter? You mean, atheists are declaring war on the 4th of July?

We atheists hate the 4th of July, because that was the day Jesus wrote the Declaration of Independence and healed all the lepers and gave them tiny American flags to wave and together they all sang a rousing rendition of "God Bless America" and then Jesus denounced the run-on sentence as "a work of Satan." It's all right there in the Bible, I'm surprised you don't know this.

When I hear Independence Day I think of the movie. I'll be celebrating the 4th.

Ambitwistor: From the people who brought you the Wars on Christmas and Easter? You mean, atheists are declaring war on the 4th of July?

Atheists don't believe in the existence of July 4th. July 3rd is just a special, double-long day.

Oh Canada, we stand on guard for thee!!

/dual citizenship
//yay America too

Ecobuckeye: And I'll gladly stand up! (dramatic pause, du du dun) Next to you, and defend her still today!

Why would you want to do that? I wont be having beer and bbq this independence day. (there may be fireworks, but I can assure you they wont be as pretty and they wont be seen from afar like yours)

Gonz: I'm a traditionalist- I celebrate Independence Day today. After all, John Adams said (wrote): "The second day of July 1776 will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival."

So, July 2nd, the day Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence, is Independence day. July 4th, the day we celebrate, is properly referred to as "the Fourth of July".

word

toppgun: Jairzinho: The guys in uniform in that picture are putting their hands over the heart. if they are in uniform the proper flag etiquette is to salute the flag. if not in uniform then one puts their hand to their heart and removes hats.

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but those are police officers. Despite what they seem to think, that makes them civilians. A.k.a., no salute, unless they're all military veterans...

Last Fourth of July I ate an an Indian restaurant.

The Gosh Darned Batman: Last Fourth of July I ate an an Indian restaurant.

The whole thing? You must have been soooo hungry!

Hang On Voltaire: The guy never claimed there was a war on the Fourth. He merely said people should remember what the day is about. It was just a strawman invented by the Subby to create a thread to go after NRO

Strawman? The email cited mention taking offense in a way similar to how that person does with "Happy Holidays". And you know where that goes.

FTF email in the A: My one quibble with your column today has to do with your valediction, which wishes us all a "Happy Fourth of July." I have put this phrase in the same category - although it is a lesser offense - as "Happy Holidays." I much prefer "Happy Independence Day."

Yes Sound: Ecobuckeye: And I'll gladly stand up! (dramatic pause, du du dun) Next to you, and defend her still today!

Why would you want to do that? I wont be having beer and bbq this independence day. (there may be fireworks, but I can assure you they wont be as pretty and they wont be seen from afar like yours)

All right, I'll sit down, then.

The Gosh Darned Batman: Last Fourth of July I ate an an Indian restaurant.

My friend is a Sikh, and his family makes the best food I've ever had. And the chai? Amazing!

vernonFL: The Gosh Darned Batman: Last Fourth of July I ate an an Indian restaurant.

My friend is a Sikh, and his family makes the best food I've ever had. And the chai? Amazing!

take him to the doctor, bro.

El Freak: So, nobody but me read the article then? Hint: subby's headline has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You call that an article?

So what I gather from the "article" is this, if you don't know what Independence day, you shouldn't celebrate it.

Wonder if it goes down by degrees, you only know some of it so you can only eat half a hot dog and see 1 firework. No beer if you can't spell independence. You can't watch the pitstops on nascar if you don't know what what year the US declared independence.

FastJeff: So what I gather from the "article" is this, if you don't know what Independence day, you shouldn't celebrate it.

Wonder if it goes down by degrees, you only know some of it so you can only eat half a hot dog and see 1 firework. No beer if you can't spell independence. You can't watch the pitstops on nascar if you don't know what what year the US declared independence.

What I find funny is he is whining that people don't know what it means but his own kids didn't know what it means. Oh, after awhile they caught on (with much prodding, I am sure). Nice job teaching your kids what it is about, "author".

You clowns whine over that post? Fark off.

stigmatoe: You clowns whine over that post? Fark off.

You might want to elaborate on both the subject and the object of that sentence. Otherwise nobody will know WTF you are talking about.

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: WELCOME TO ERF

FTFY

Marcus Aurelius: It's just not the Fourth of July unless someone loses a finger or an eye. Preferably via mishandling of fireworks, but whatever works for you is OK.

This needs Ogden Nashifying:

It's just not the Fourth of July
Unless someone loses a finger or eye.
Preferably via mishandling of fireworks,
But whatever will raise public ire works.

globalwarmingpraiser: I pretty much covered this here.My blog, don't wanna type it twice. Read Snark and otherwise make comments. But I think I covered most of the Freedom hate on both sides (new window)

See, this is what's wrong with the internet. It's unfiltered and full of stupid.

ghare: globalwarmingpraiser: I pretty much covered this here.My blog, don't wanna type it twice. Read Snark and otherwise make comments. But I think I covered most of the Freedom hate on both sides (new window)

See, this is what's wrong with the internet. It's unfiltered and full of stupid.

gwp is alright. He has actually moved left in the last year (though he won't admit it).

[sigh] I thought Colbert was just making this up.

Bucky Katt: [sigh] I thought Colbert was just making this up.

It is hard to get people not to talk about Sanford. Not even the nauseating Michael Jackson coverage has eclipsed him totally.

Fart_Machine: Weren't we told that consumption is patriotic?


Thats what the pundits say but everyone still looks at me funny when i cough up blood.

Kyoowashugi: toppgun

cant you just let me take a shot at the bush administration in peace. you dont have to call me out on my B.S.

They demonstrated this last year.

"Who are you going to vote for?"

"Barrack Obama"

"What is name of the holiday tomorrow?"

"Independence Day"

"Independence from whom?"

"Ummm..."

"What was the name of the war we fought for our Independence?"

"Umm..." "The Civil War" "World War I"

"Who was the general of our forces?"

"Ummm..."

randomjsa: They demonstrated this last year.

"Who are you going to vote for?"

"Barrack Obama"

"What is name of the holiday tomorrow?"

"Independence Day"

"Independence from whom?"

"Ummm..."

"What was the name of the war we fought for our Independence?"

"Umm..." "The Civil War" "World War I"

"Who was the general of our forces?"

"Ummm..."

Well, there you go, that wasn't even an anecdote, that was an anecdote in your own mind. And only liberals said that! Wow.

is it wrong for me to want the 4th of july to be known once again as independence day?! i dont see a problem with this

/democrat-liberal
//i thought that was the point from the start

randomjsa:
"Barrack Obama"

Jesus, it's funny when people try to play holier-than-thou.

So, what's worse, not knowing we defeated the British, or not knowing how to spell the name of the current president?

Wait, who are we supposed to be oppressing now? Whitey, rich folks, or fat old drug addicts who can't get a Dole without a little blue pill?

I have so many entrenched majority people to step on right now I can't keep them all straight.

That's it - War on Halloween - cuz it is teh ghey.

vertiaset: Fark.com where patriotism is for douchebags!


Nooo. You've got it backwards. The biggest douchebags wrap themselves in an American flag and wear a cross so they can verbally deflect the obvious truth that they are obscene douchebags whenever confronted by it by screaming, "If you're criticizing me, you must hate America and God because I am America and a Christian!"

Meanwhile, they are still obscene douchebags who happen to be American and Christian but declare that since you are pointing out their assholery that you "have to be attacking" America and Christianity in the process.

If a politician or a released from jail criminal uses this defense as a regular excuse, then it sure as heck defines an average scumbag when they also use the God & Country excuse.

RemyDuron: And they ended up with an expansionist dictator and we ended up having a democratic republic of unprecedented size and stability.

Right, so Napoleon is "expansionist", but the US "ended up having... unprecedented size". Somehow. We don't know how, but it certainly wasn't because of expansionism. It was Freedom Growth or something.

I can't believe a farted out article like this has you people debating the true meaning of patriotism and massaging your chins contemplating the proper expression of The 4th.

When the Proper Internet Response should have been to make fun of Jay Nordlinger in the most snickeringly juvenille and vulgar manner possible, including hasty photoshops.

I weep for the Internet.

I'll probably end up celebrating the day by consoling my true-blue American mutt who's terrified of all the fireworks.

Sabyen91: ghare: globalwarmingpraiser: I pretty much covered this here.My blog, don't wanna type it twice. Read Snark and otherwise make comments. But I think I covered most of the Freedom hate on both sides (new window)

See, this is what's wrong with the internet. It's unfiltered and full of stupid.

gwp is alright. He has actually moved left in the last year (though he won't admit it).

Nope, just the right has been giving me more ammunition. Sometimes if people look at things there are a lot of things they agree on. Plus RLSM and a few others on here pissed me off hteir blatant racist attitude. I will probably never be Barack Obama's greatest fan, but I think some of the stupid coming out is just ignorant. Being an honest Libertarian, is just a matter of taking the freedom aspect of conservatives and liberals and saying why not be honest. Being a straight up statist is taking the control aspects from either. The right has been in acendancy(recent elections not withstanding) so an honest Libertarian is going to be critical of their abuses. When a more left agenda is in acendency you will say I am moving right. I am pretty much in line with Weaver_95.

Holidays are all stupid.

Just treat every day like a celebration, and the idea of putting aside one or two days a month to celebrate a particular concept, idea, event, or person just seems trite and silly.