Befuddled: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Also, apropos of nothing, here's Al Franken verbally slapping Ann Coulter.

Franken took a chance in doing that as it is never a good idea to debate an unabashed professional liar like Coulter. You'll never win and a person who lies about everything will always have 'facts' to support their argument. You'll be limited in refuting everything a liar says since you'll care about the truth and not have instant access to facts and quotes.

He also got O'Reilly to admit he "might be wrong" once. Franken's good at this. He also has a team of ivy league students who factcheck for him, although often it is as simple as searching LexisNexis.

But yeah, it's very hard to debate someone who has no problem just completely lying if you aren't willing to do the same. Because you don't have time to fact check them.

Befuddled: Franken took a chance in doing that as it is never a good idea to debate an unabashed professional liar like Coulter. You'll never win and a person who lies about everything will always have 'facts' to support their argument. You'll be limited in refuting everything a liar says since you'll care about the truth and not have instant access to facts and quotes.

I didn't think much of it at the time, but I'm come to appreciate the genius of George Carlin's Tonight Show visit with Ann. Going in, everyone expected fireworks, but aside from a safe joke at the beginning about "being to the right (physically) of Ann Coltour", he kept his mouth shut the whole time. You could see that she wasn't prepared for it because every time she said something inflammatory, she would look over at Carlin as if waiting for an attack and/or validation. By not refusing to be drawn into an argument, he left her hanging as she stumbled through her routine.

Your Faith is Creepy: How come the FCC gets to levy huge fines over the broadcast of so-called "dirty" words, or the accidental exposure of a female breast, but says and does nothing about the deliberate daily dissemination of blatant falsehoods, misinformation and propaganda that is Faux News?

I think I'll write Senator Franken's office and ask that he look into this.

This.

billygun7: Your Faith is Creepy: How come the FCC gets to levy huge fines over the broadcast of so-called "dirty" words, or the accidental exposure of a female breast, but says and does nothing about the deliberate daily dissemination of blatant falsehoods, misinformation and propaganda that is Faux News?

I think I'll write Senator Franken's office and ask that he look into this.

This.

Hmm, I am guessing you will be wasting your words.

Although it should be noted that Franken is no slouch at lying himself. He excellently dances around the truth in one bit of Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. He takes Ann Coulter to task for making inaccurate statements which did not include relevant facts and instead putting them in end notes which almost no one reads. At an earlier point in the book he takes her to task for saying some journalist's father was a high up member of the American Communist party. So he calls the guy up, "Hey, Ann Coulter said your father was one of the heads of the American Communist party, is that true?" "Nope." "Okay, thanks."

The thing is, at the end of this paragraph is a little mark indicating an end note. And it is the only end note in the whole book (well, there are two, the other is from the bit on endnotes. It says "See how hard that was to find?"). It clarifies that while this guys father was not a head of the American Communist party, his grandfather was. So the book comes out, and Ann Coulter accuses him of lying because he left out the fact this guys grandfather was head of the head of the American Communist party, and she had not lied just made a simple mistake. Thus elegantly proving his point that no one reads the end notes.

unyon: Your Faith is Creepy: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: GIS for "Lady Boner"

Oh great. Now that image will be in my mind whenever I hear, speak, or even think the words "Lady Boner". Thanks. A LOT.

Let me fix that for ya:

[eeeeeaaaaaaagggghhhhh]

That should wash that other image away.

And now I have to explain to my SO why I'm cracking up at the computer. You're a cruel person, I hope you know that.

But you're right. It worked. Damn you.

Ahh, Media Matters, where you can take a few minutes of clips and portray them as something they are not all in aid of filling liberal heads full of mush with what they want to hear.

randomjsa: Ahh, Media Matters, where you can take a few minutes of clips and portray them as something they are not all in aid of filling liberal heads full of mush with what they want to hear.

Aww, poor thing. You HATE when they quote righties word for word.

randomjsa: Ahh, Media Matters, where you can take a few minutes of clips and portray them as something they are not all in aid of filling liberal heads full of mush with what they want to hear.

So what did they get wrong, exactly? Hm?

RemyDuron: [Ann Coulter] had not lied just made a simple mistake.

Coulter sure does make a lot of 'mistakes'. Funny how all her mistakes are so pro-rightwing-batshiat-crazy.

Befuddled: RemyDuron: [Ann Coulter] had not lied just made a simple mistake.

Coulter sure does make a lot of 'mistakes'. Funny how all her mistakes are so pro-rightwing-batshiat-crazy.

I think this one was a genuine mistake. I wonder if Franken intended to manipulate her into proving his point about endnotes, or he was just trying to make a clever point about using endnotes to lie and Coulter blundered into it. Either way, it's a thing of beauty.

RemyDuron:

But yeah, it's very hard to debate someone who has no problem just completely lying if you aren't willing to do the same. Because you don't have time to fact check them.



None of the right-wing bloviators are very creative or hard-working. In fact, they're down-right lazy and unimaginative: telling the same generic lies over-and-over.

So... the trick is to study them beforehand, and get an idea of what their favorite lies are... then simply memorize the facts surrounding their favorite lies.

brynaldo: Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: Here is Wilford's stump speech: "John McCain--the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be."

Would like a word with Captain Diabeetus:

Brett Hull is so cool.

in a gay knda way...not that there's anything wrong with that

Sabyen91: Your_Huckleberry: They're probably still smarting over all the shots Franken has leveled at them over the years, especially Hannity. He might be nuts (Okay, he is nuts), but Al Franken savaged him in his books, you really think Hannity is going to let that go? Come on.

And really, if someone like Bill O'Reilly ran for and won office(I know,scary), you think Olbermann would cover it straight?

He was elected by the people of Minnesota. The Foxxies are denying it. They are full of shiat. Your equating these nuts to Olbermann is silly.

No, I don't think it is silly, sorry.

And I'm not talking denying elections, I was equating the reaction the Fox commentators are giving to a reaction to Al Franken winning and surmising a reaction I believe MSNBC types would give if the sides were reversed. Franken landed some heavy blows on guys like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, it's not at all a stretch to say they hate him for it, so they are sure as hell going to be bitter about it. Unprofessional,yes, but they are not going to give him a fair shake because of how they feel about him. Well, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Olbermann has a very,very strong dislike(at least) for O'Reilly, if O'Reilly ran for and won some sort of office, you really think Olbermann would give him a fair coverage? No. I sure don't.

kevinfra: "BECK: This is like having me in the Senate. You don't want me as a senator. This is -- what is that? I mean --"

Finally. Something I can agree with him about.

I was discussing this with a conservative friend at work. First he said, he wouldn't vote for Al Franken, but he was elected.

Then I mentioned the Glen Beck quote. My friend said, "Let me corrent that, I wouldn't vote for Al Franken, unless he was running against Glen Beck."

Ha! I think your friend is on to something there.

RemyDuron: Your_Huckleberry: They're probably still smarting over all the shots Franken has leveled at them over the years, especially Hannity. He might be nuts (Okay, he is nuts), but Al Franken savaged him in his books, you really think Hannity is going to let that go? Come on.

And really, if someone like Bill O'Reilly ran for and won office(I know,scary), you think Olbermann would cover it straight?

No, but I also don't think O'Reilly would do that. It would mean he risked losing. The man can't even stand being interviewed on NPR without pitching a hissy fit, he can't stand the cold harsh light of an election. He's comfortable where he is, on his show, able to cut off anyone who comes close to beating him in an argument.

IIRC the only person to ever get him to admit he might be wrong was. . . Al Franken.


I think you're right about that, probably another reason for O'Reilly to hate Franken. I've noticed that some of these bigger talking heads don't venture out more from thier comfort zones. I heard somebody once say they'd love to see Rush Limbaugh go on Bill Maher's show (back when he was on ABC) and take Maher apart. Limbaugh wouldn't dare! First of all, back then, the second after Limbaugh was booked, Maher would lock in Al Franken, Paul Begala and James Carville for the same show and they'd tear him up like hyennas. Same reason O'Reilly or Hannity wouldn't go on Maher's panel. (O'Reilly has done one on one interviews with Maher, I got the impression Maher didn't hate him) I also find it interesting Olbermann won't do shows like that, he may not have the stomack for such debate. Probably boils down to these types being control freaks.

Referring to the first part of the video, I farking hate it when Republicans try to play the "he's still my president" card in reference to Obama. Oh really? You make up insane conspiracy theories about him not being a citizen, you freak out when he orders spicy mustard on a burger, you blame the recession on him before he even takes office -but you still give him the respect and good-will appropriate to the office. Right.

Listen, you're not fooling anyone. Just admit that you're shiatting your pants over the fact that there's a librul in the White House, and you're throwing all the crap you can muster at the wall just to see what will stick. Doing so might just regain you a smidgen of the respect you once had.

The Name: Referring to the first part of the video, I farking hate it when Republicans try to play the "he's still my president" card in reference to Obama. Oh really? You make up insane conspiracy theories about him not being a citizen, you freak out when he orders spicy mustard on a burger, you blame the recession on him before he even takes office -but you still give him the respect and good-will appropriate to the office. Right.

Listen, you're not fooling anyone. Just admit that you're shiatting your pants over the fact that there's a librul in the White House, and you're throwing all the crap you can muster at the wall just to see what will stick. Doing so might just regain you a smidgen of the respect you once had.

So would you prefer the "Not My President" motto of the Bush years? More honest, I suppose.

GAT_00: Fox News doesn't know what to do when reality infringes on them.

They won their lawsuit stating they don't have to pay any attention to reality or actual facts...which doesn't mean that reality or facts are going to give them the same (er...hmmm...courtesy isn't the word I want here) treatment.

Sorta like the law of gravity.
Go ahead and ignore it. You're still gonna hit the pavement like a sack of bricks.

/ schadenfreude and FAUX tears...
// anybody want popcorn with theirs?

Your_Huckleberry: And I'm not talking denying elections, I was equating the reaction the Fox commentators are giving to a reaction to Al Franken winning and surmising a reaction I believe MSNBC types would give if the sides were reversed. Franken landed some heavy blows on guys like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, it's not at all a stretch to say they hate him for it, so they are sure as hell going to be bitter about it. Unprofessional,yes, but they are not going to give him a fair shake because of how they feel about him. Well, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Olbermann has a very,very strong dislike(at least) for O'Reilly, if O'Reilly ran for and won some sort of office, you really think Olbermann would give him a fair coverage? No. I sure don't.

I'm sure Keith Olberman would have strong opinions on the subject, but I don't think he'd make false claims about him.

Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: And I'm not talking denying elections, I was equating the reaction the Fox commentators are giving to a reaction to Al Franken winning and surmising a reaction I believe MSNBC types would give if the sides were reversed. Franken landed some heavy blows on guys like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, it's not at all a stretch to say they hate him for it, so they are sure as hell going to be bitter about it. Unprofessional,yes, but they are not going to give him a fair shake because of how they feel about him. Well, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Olbermann has a very,very strong dislike(at least) for O'Reilly, if O'Reilly ran for and won some sort of office, you really think Olbermann would give him a fair coverage? No. I sure don't.

I'm sure Keith Olberman would have strong opinions on the subject, but I don't think he'd make false claims about him.

Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.

Your_Huckleberry: Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.

Particularly after he vowed to stop using a silly voice to make fun of BOR, after the Tillman Murder. Light hearted mockery is too good for BOR.

Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.

Particularly after he vowed to stop using a silly voice to make fun of BOR, after the Tillman Murder. Light hearted mockery is too good for BOR.

Yeah, I saw that.

You know (and I'm sure you won't agree with this first part), for the most part, I think claims that the Right Wing talkers are causing nutcases to go violent are overblown, but the Tillman case just.... gives me an uneasy feeling.

Your_Huckleberry: Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.

Particularly after he vowed to stop using a silly voice to make fun of BOR, after the Tillman Murder. Light hearted mockery is too good for BOR.

Yeah, I saw that.

You know (and I'm sure you won't agree with this first part), for the most part, I think claims that the Right Wing talkers are causing nutcases to go violent are overblown, but the Tillman case just.... gives me an uneasy feeling.

Tillman wasn't even the first case. Remember the guy who shot up the church?

RevMercutio: Your_Huckleberry: Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.

Particularly after he vowed to stop using a silly voice to make fun of BOR, after the Tillman Murder. Light hearted mockery is too good for BOR.

Yeah, I saw that.

You know (and I'm sure you won't agree with this first part), for the most part, I think claims that the Right Wing talkers are causing nutcases to go violent are overblown, but the Tillman case just.... gives me an uneasy feeling.

Tillman wasn't even the first case. Remember the guy who shot up the church?

Didn't somebody post a link to that earlier, or was that a different thread? Blend together sometimes. I'll go back and look, before I eventually try to get some sleep.

Bloody William: Oh, and did anyone notice that Michael farking Steele just came out and said that he doesn't think Franken was legitimately elected? Are you shiatting me?

But he has a point. Where is Franken's birth certificate?

Never trust a Democratic Senator.

Your Faith is Creepy: How come the FCC gets to levy huge fines over the broadcast of so-called "dirty" words, or the accidental exposure of a female breast, but says and does nothing about the deliberate daily dissemination of blatant falsehoods, misinformation and propaganda that is Faux News?

I think I'll write Senator Franken's office and ask that he look into this.

If the FCC did regulate what is true and false in the news, presumably the head of the FCC would be replaced each new president so they can control the media better. Better to leave it as not interfering in political stuff and assume the morons will eventually learn without the government needing to step in.

brigid_fitch: Your_Huckleberry: brigid_fitch: Why is it okay that Sonny Bono, Fred Grandy, Fred Thompson, Ronald Reagan, & Arnold Schwarzanegger enter politics, but not Franken?

Oh, wait--he's the only Democrat in that group.

Uh, no offense, but I think you're off there. This isn't about a Democrat entertaineer winning office, this is about Al Franken winning office. It's personal, especially to the likes of Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh. He blasted them in his books, they are not going to get over that.

Yes, his targets have every reason to start in on him, but it doesn't explain the average Republican. My family is going NUTS about this. A few of my die-hard Republican friends are groaning. When I got my taxes done, my accountant ranted about the guy when he saw that I'd contributed to Franken's campaign. And I've asked every single one of them what they know about Al Franken outside of his SNL days. They can't come up with a specific answer, only that he's a comedian who failed at liberal talk-radio.

I've read his books--he's an exceptionally smart man. He also employs scores of interns just to do fact-checking for him. I can't wait to see what he does in the Senate.

I hear the same thing from my blue-collar, right-wing inlaws. "He's just a comedian!"
"Reagan was just an actor!"
"Don't you dare attack Ronald Reagan!"

Franken, as you say, is a very smart guy. And he's really got a razor-blade tongue on him. It seems to be a rule that, no matter what a liberal Democrat might think and say in private about the idiocy on the other side, he becomes subdued and wishy-washy once he gets into office. (Most of them, most of the time.) "Collegiality," I suppose.

It would be very refreshing if Franken were to take the opportunity of his position to fillet the talking heads on the right, to point out, loudly, that the emperor has no clothes. He's got six years before he has to worry about re-election. He could be a first-rate attack dog who could get people not only thinking about the crap-spewing right, but laughing at them. And sufficient laughter could be deadly.

lbi669: A lady boner is all the exciting feeling of a regular boner, but no boner.

/ill equipped

I'm sure there's a little man in the boat somewhere :)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!


ReBorglican Tears: Crisp, Sweet, Satisying.

Get your bottle today!

hubiestubert:

Oh Hells no. Ben Stein is a funny guy, but I think he did enough damage with his defense of Nixon, thank you very much. That, and this little blurb:


So what? He'll be the veep, the political equivalent to appearing on Hollywood Squares. Avoid whacking the prez and who cares how retarded he is. I mean look at Biden. Would you really want that goofy gaffe machine running the nation? And even if Stein does gain the top seat we'll still be rewarded after death for serving the Eristic principle so let Franken-Stein in '12! be heard throughout the land!

I must say that the solid republican ass kicking that took place has been even better than i thought it would be.

You LOSERS gave us liberals exactly what we wanted.

Thanks

syzygy whizz: GAT_00: Fox News doesn't know what to do when reality infringes on them.

(snip)

Sorta like the law of gravity.
Go ahead and ignore it. You're still gonna hit the pavement like a sack of bricks.

Well, gravity is just a theory and Fox may choose to believe in an alternative explanation, one with a different perspective and point of view.

Your_Huckleberry: Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: And I'm not talking denying elections, I was equating the reaction the Fox commentators are giving to a reaction to Al Franken winning and surmising a reaction I believe MSNBC types would give if the sides were reversed. Franken landed some heavy blows on guys like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, it's not at all a stretch to say they hate him for it, so they are sure as hell going to be bitter about it. Unprofessional,yes, but they are not going to give him a fair shake because of how they feel about him. Well, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Olbermann has a very,very strong dislike(at least) for O'Reilly, if O'Reilly ran for and won some sort of office, you really think Olbermann would give him a fair coverage? No. I sure don't.

I'm sure Keith Olberman would have strong opinions on the subject, but I don't think he'd make false claims about him.

Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.


Actually, Olbermann won't say anything about it. After the George Tiller incident, Olbermann has stopped responding to anything O'Reilly has said or done. He won't even put him on his Worlds Worst. Just because O'Reilly won't admit that he might have had something to do with it. I'm sure he didn't create the idea, but i'm sure he encouraged it.

Lets enjoy some of that delicious republican reality denial that got them fired from all branches of government.

From Suskinds book -

He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.
________________________________________

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ya see repubs didn't get their asses kicked in 2006 and 2008.

They just forgot to create a reality where they won.

bulsd: Your_Huckleberry: Alphax: Your_Huckleberry: And I'm not talking denying elections, I was equating the reaction the Fox commentators are giving to a reaction to Al Franken winning and surmising a reaction I believe MSNBC types would give if the sides were reversed. Franken landed some heavy blows on guys like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, it's not at all a stretch to say they hate him for it, so they are sure as hell going to be bitter about it. Unprofessional,yes, but they are not going to give him a fair shake because of how they feel about him. Well, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Olbermann has a very,very strong dislike(at least) for O'Reilly, if O'Reilly ran for and won some sort of office, you really think Olbermann would give him a fair coverage? No. I sure don't.

I'm sure Keith Olberman would have strong opinions on the subject, but I don't think he'd make false claims about him.

Outright false claims? Maybe not. But "strong opinions" would be a big understatement.


Actually, Olbermann won't say anything about it. After the George Tiller incident, Olbermann has stopped responding to anything O'Reilly has said or done. He won't even put him on his Worlds Worst. Just because O'Reilly won't admit that he might have had something to do with it. I'm sure he didn't create the idea, but i'm sure he encouraged it.

Yeah, so Alphax tells me. So he doesn't mention O'Reilly at all anymore? Really stuck to that?

Then, perhaps, the better comparison would be Hannity winning office, he seems to be even more disliked than O'Reilly.