EsteeFlwrPot: CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?


logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

Medicine is a very complicated thing and it is far from flawless, but it's by far the best thing we've got.

If you're still so butthurt that some people who turn to medicine are unlucky and get screwed over, feel free to provide an alternative with a higher % rate of survival for your average sickness/condition.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

You have freedom of religion as it pertains to you.

You don't have the right to brainwash a minor into your religion and kill them slowly through inaction, in the name of said religion.

You should and will be charged with negligence, child endangerment and possibly even homicide.

Daffydil: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Cambo_: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.


1/10. Lacks originality.

1/10 eh?

Doesn't make it false :P

Doesn't make it true either...

Of course it does

More people have died in the name of religion then anything else (other then natural causes).

Yes, I know, the all mighty god may give you a simple answer to where we came from (disregarding science), but I have no faith in humanity, let alone a 'god' that humans created.

Who is gods god? I mean if there is one for us...

seamus james: skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

nice try

CapitolG: Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?

It's pretty obvious that was about me judging by whats been said to me in past threads and it was meant as an insult, at least the second person I quoted.

I know why I do it, thanks. That's not the issue here.

Since 1975, 274 children have died in this country because their parents thought prayer, not medicine, would cure them.

Its probably better that way...

skullkrusher: seamus james: skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

nice try

I do what I can.

I Said: /honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic

How about the millions who merely had their heads filled with rubbish, bigotry, and lies?

And "only 274" dying...how many thousands more suffered needlessly?

skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

CapitolG: logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

Can you explain what he's talking about with the fetish thing? I don't understand how typing G-d is some type of fetish or what he's on about.

EsteeFlwrPot: Arnold T Pants: Allowing someone to die of natural causes is the same as killing them? LOL. Wut? I'm not pro-life, but you're an idiot.

Well think about it this way. Let's say someone is having a heart attack right in front of you. The typical person would call 911 and try to help them. If you stand there and watch him die right in front of you, doing absolutely nothing to save him, just standing there, wouldn't you think you had a part to play in his death?

That was stupid, and the answer is no.

skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

Why would anyone you know tell you they're a pedo?

Some of you need to put things into perspective a little bit.

The percentage of people that die from a medical mistake out of the number of people that have medical procedures is very very small.

The percentage of kids who die of curable/treatable diseases (i.e. diabetes) because of fanatical religious parents that wont seek the treatment/cure is very very high.

Regardless of the statistics letting a child die of a treatable illness is child abuse.

falcon176: 195,000 (^)

If everybody died of old age, it'd be pretty darn crowded in this rock.

ithaqua: rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

Wow...just, wow.

Yea, god was gonna kill them, but changed his mind due to prayers.

Praying...when you want to do something without having to do anything.

CapitolG: EsteeFlwrPot: CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?


logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

Euphemism treadmill. You can replace an "offensive" word with another word, that word is now the offensive word. Ad-infinitum.

The notion that as a joo I'm intellectually incapable of figuring this out is denigrating to my being. Rabbinic councils also generally agree that the use of "G_d" as a substitute is pretty farking pointless and only do it out of fear of offending others, even though those others are saying the same thing. It's Ouroboros chasing its tail.

Now I can see it if you're talking in context of actual scripture where traditional Hebrew is in use. Just like if you come to my temple you're going to wear the kepot, just like if I go to your turf I'll follow your traditions. But the whole "G_d" thing has no real tradition behind it and only serves as an artificial divide between people, thus exotification.

Yeah there are a very small percentile of actual jews who choose to take offense. Probably the same people who take offense to everydamnthing just like every group has some of these types. Their offense is not founded in any kind of tradition or Rabbinical mandate.

EsteeFlwrPot: It's pretty obvious that was about me judging by whats been said to me in past threads and it was meant as an insult, at least the second person I quoted.

Dig up the thread where I questioned your faith(ya know, to establish precedence).

Good luck!

CrankMyBlueSax: budsterr: How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

If only there were a way to just murder the gay ones.

Oh but on the contra, with Genetic Screening in the near future we can. Now isn't that scary (or not. depending on your political views)

Wow. 274 in over over thirty years in a country of 250 million plus?!?!?!?!?!?!?

How about we look at the number of parents who smoke in front of their kids increasing the chances the children pick up smoking?

This sort of shiat is the worst type of cherry picking. Throw in some kids death and cause an uproar, meanwhile people over feed their kids, let them play xbox for 8 hours per day, etc. If you really want to be fair, pull their population averages and look at their infant mortality rate. I'd bet a cool 10K it's higher than a whole lot of the other segments of the population.

amanogowa: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

Since the molesting went on for years, I think the jokes still have plenty of life left them. Also, the church did A TON to aid the ESCAPE of these perverts, moving them from church to church when allegations arose. Aiding and abetting? You betcha.

/Former Catholic

How many children of families without insurance have died just this year due to lack of preventative care?

/Religion is bad. Lack of health care is more... bad-er..er.

seamus james: amanogowa: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

Since the molesting went on for years, I think the jokes still have plenty of life left them. Also, the church did A TON to aid the ESCAPE of these perverts, moving them from church to church when allegations arose. Aiding and abetting? You betcha.

/Former Catholic

exactly.

Multiple 'fathers' from my local parish are now in trouble and have either lost lawsuits or are in jail

Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

louiedog: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

Why would anyone you know tell you they're a pedo?

Everyone I know is disgusted by the actions of a small minority of priests and the Church hierarchy's denial and obfuscation regarding that bullshiat. Many stopped going to Church as a result however still consider themselves Catholic. That's what I meant.

"So when someone says "What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic."

I can't help react to what is just another typical interweb ninja response meant to insult and inflame.

/really my problem.
//shouldn't care
///former churchgoer
////still hate snarky farkwads.

zabadu: Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

I'm not Jewish but I'd imagine they say something like "hey, guy who we can't call by name, this is what I want"

ricewater_stool 2009-07-02 12:07:47 PM
Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

THIS

It's simple really. You can practice whatever religion you want. But if your actions (or lack thereof in these cases) result in death or serious injury to someone in your care, you're responsible! When you injured or killed someone other than yourself, it ceased to be a religious issue and became a criminal act.

zabadu: Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

Prayer is not taking a name in vain, it's a salutation. Exempt.

That numbers got to be a bit low, right? Not even 300 in over 30 years?

kindms: 274 less fundies is OK by me.

PRECISELY!

But let's take a moment to remember the millions of liberals who have been aborted. One of them could have held the cure for religion!

So in 35 years we've had .0000000457% of the population die in order to ensure freedom from religious persecution. Sounds like a fair exchange to me.

logruszed: Rabbinic councils also generally agree that the use of "G_d" as a substitute is pretty farking pointless and only do it out of fear of offending others

I say Error on the side of caution, if somebody's faith is so consuming that they see the world "God" as holding the same power As the Hebrew name, what is the harm?


logruszed: the whole "G_d" thing has no real tradition behind it and only serves as an artificial divide between people

But they want that divide, in the same way the Phelps clan wants to be separated from the rest of the Christen community... I get it is not healthy, but to each his own.

The big reason I see no issue in it? I would want others to respect my believes (No matter how crazy they seem).... So I do the same.

I'm not a religious nut (hell at best, I'm a nonpracticing baptist), but the level of cynicism and vitriolic hate towards people of faith is disgusting.

That's the one thing I hate about the internet. The 20-28 childless cool cat somehow has become the dominant social presence. Maybe there was more people thinking like this decades ago, but dammit if you acted like this kind of anti-social arsehole like most of you people are presenting, a stern talking to would've been earned.

Good god, disagree, don't believe, whatever, but have a sense of decency about yourself and others.

At a minimum, please step back and realize that there will be things you do in regards to your children that maybe the rest of society doesn't agree with (hopefully not immoral though, just developmental choices). Do you really want outside agencies having more and more say over what you can and can't do for your children?

Now, go ahead and debunk me with the most outrageous and immoral examples of behavior to prove me wrong. Please, people, just think to yourself what this current 'society knows better than the individual' mindset is going to destroy.

See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit? The doctrine was formulated so that those under 18 could make decisions for themselves, providing they could explain their beliefs clearly.

Okay, but they're not telling us about the millions of times that prayer worked.

monster87: the level of cynicism and vitriolic hate towards people of faith is disgusting.

You confuse hate with pity.

Hmmm. 274 deaths in 35 years? Almost 8 per year! Why, that's almost as big a disaster as the swine flu!

Why does anyone care? During those same 35 years about 3.5 million people died from taking properly prescribed, properly taken pharmaceutical drugs, and twice as many died as the result of stupid doctor tricks in hospitals.

Also unreported is how many kids in these religious families got sick and didn't die.

The real issue is that the controllers can't stand having anyone outside their control. The minute one of these sick kids with hyper-religious parents gets public attention, they move in with a SWAT team, lest anyone else get the idea they are free. The actual fate of the kid is irrelevant.

Galileo's Daughter: You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit? The doctrine was formulated so that those under 18 could make decisions for themselves, providing they could explain their beliefs clearly.

F*ck you, I read just fine. I'm just not going to sift through all that to find the one sentence you claim.

I never take the sides of fundie nutjobs, but this argument is silly. I would like to see how many deaths have happened in that same time dealing with malpractice, allergic reactions to meds, or infections caught from operations. I have no idea what the numbers are, but I would bet that they would be close to the same. 274 kids dying from prayer seems pretty low considering how many idiot parents there are out there.

cramtod: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

not sure I get your point... States can't deny people equal protection of the laws. Got it. What's that have to do with the Freedom of Religion?

This is from 2003 but it might help put this in perspective.National child mortality data (new window)
Doesn't seem like religion or lack of it is the leading cause of child deaths unless something really changed since 2003.

Q: What is a mature minor?
A:: A mature minor is a person sixteen years or over and under the age of eighteen "who has demonstrated the ability and capacity to manage his (or her) own affairs and to live wholly or partially independent of his (or her) parents or guardian.

I.E. Emancipated.

274?

So that puts fundamental religion at like #15,879 on the list of things that kill children since 1972?

I thought Fundies were so much more annoying than that.

I mean heck Liberals and Abortion Doctors have killed like 20,000,000 kids since then, not counting twins.

And God bless the US Congress and Supreme Court, who pray before each session.

/morans

God has a plan for us all. By Praying, you admit that you either do not believe in the plan, or think God is wrong in what he has done to your child. By Praying to God or a Saint to change something that is happening to you, you are disrespecting God more than you think an Atheist might be.

Natural Selection in action. Plus, thats 274 less fundies who grow up to have fundies of their own.