See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

This never ever happens anywhere but in the good old United States.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

wat

It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

So?

I'm pretty sure that more children have died in the US of sneezing since 1974, so I'm not really thinking that this is much of a social issue. The parents should be jailed, preferably before the child dies, but otherwise, this isn't newsworthy.

R.A.Danny: This never ever happens anywhere but in the good old United States.

In Africa, they just kill and dismember albino children and sell their body parts for medicine.

At least in the US the deaths of children from religious beliefs are usually due to neglect or, as in the article, failing to medicate them. Thankfully in America, if your child is dying of a curable disease and you refuse to give them treatment, you will be prosecuted, and you will go to jail.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

There are limits. Some churches have had legal issues because the parishioners are told to beat their children, even with the pastor/priest etc getting involved in the beatings. Is that ok bc it's a part of their religious practice?

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

I don't necessarily believe that the issue is regarding freedom of religion as much as it is forcing religious beliefs on sick and dying children. Those kids had religious freedoms as well, but since their rights are controlled by their parents, they're dead today.

not "god bless america." god bless god. he loves his believers so much he wants them in heaven with him as soon as possible, as long as they've done enough abasing themselves to his glory

How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

I wonder how many would have died anyway, even with medical intervention. I can't imagine that every case would have been resolved by a doctor. If a long-shot procedure may result in a great deal of suffering and the death of a child, I can understand if parents may opt not to have it, but if they say they're going to pray instead, they're vilified.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Now you see people, THAT is how it's done. Bravo, sir! 8/10.

kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

That contradicts the religion of the eight-year-old whose religion is not to get farked by creepy old men.

Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

It's a shame you can have kids when you're poor too, but no one seems to care about that.

the beautiful thing is...if the kid dies, it's "God's will" or it's "Part of God's plan." Win-win either way!

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What about the rights of the child as a citizen? If an adult wishes to pray themselves out of an illness, all the power to them (or God).

ricewater_stool: Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves.

This is exactly where the (scary, IMHO) shift is actually taking place. It used to be that short of beating your kid in to hamburger or sticking your dick in them, parents "owned" their children until they were 18 and could raise them as they saw fit. Now, the government is wanting to get involved at every turn. On one hand, if your 5 year old boy decides to "pants" a girl in kindergarten, he's a registered sex offender for life and your entire family has to go live under a bridge - on the other hand, if you find out he did it first, and spank him to teach him a lesson, he'll be kidnapped by state CPS officers and given to a child molester posing as a foster parent, and you'll go to jail. There is no such thing as common sense anymore.

Between 1990 and 2005, 292 children died in this country because their parents let them play with toys. God bless America.

BobtheFascist:
It's a shame you can have kids when you're poor too, but no one seems to care about that.

Liberty and Justice for the rich!

Does that number include children who were possessed by a demon, and had to have the evil beaten out of them, and died of it?

Since 1975, 274 children have gone to heaven instead of hell.

God Bless America.

PurplePimpSaber: BobtheFascist:
It's a shame you can have kids when you're poor too, but no one seems to care about that.

Liberty and Justice for the rich!

Nope. Just suffering the consequences of your actions.

No matter one's personal choice of religion (or lack thereof) I'd like to think that if there IS any eternal reward or punishment for one's deeds while on earth that allowing a child to die of a curable disease instantly earns one a lifetime reservation in the "razor-sharp spiked penises that ejaculate boiling lead" suite of wherever the bad people go -- either that or Camden, whichever's worse.

Maybe God answered your prayers by endowing a scientist with the ability to create a "miracle" drug and making available a physician capable of diagnosing the need for such a drug in your child?

Since the dawn of time, several tens of millions have died because this or that group of ill-educated douchebags felt that their belief in a particular ethereal being was important enough that other groups of people, who may believe in different ethereal beings or none at all, needed to be killed.

More people have died to placate what is essentially a supernatural 7-year-old with a universe-sized Erector set than for any other reason.

This isn't sad...even on the fringes of the most modern societies there exists a minority of retards not fit to reproduce. These retards are destined to be killed off by their environment.

Since 1975, 274 children have died in this country because their parents thought prayer, not medicine, would cure them. God bless America

And zero have died in the U.S. from socialized medicine.

I wonder how many have died from complications of innoculations.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Homicide is not protected by freedom of religion.

Neither is neglect.

Parents are responsible for the well-being of their child. If the child is sick with a curable illness and they reject treatment, resulting in the child's death, they have willfully killed their child.

/Religion isn't based on reality
//Mythology doesn't cure illness
///Be prepared to face the consequences of your (in)actions

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

My religion says I get to shoot self-righteous asshats and that if I do, God is going to give me a medal. You're my next medal. Should I be prosecuted? By your logic, then no, I should not. Win/win, right?

SpeshilEdjukashin: Now you see people, THAT is how it's done. Bravo, sir! 8/10.

From the Pulpit: Time for a Christian Revolutionary War

In a couple of days our nation will celebrate its 233rd year of independence.

The American colonists had exhausted all of their efforts to remain united with England. Their only option left was to declare freedom from the oppression of the mother country. Thus began the official Revolutionary War. On July 4, 1776, 55 men penned their name in ink onto the Declaration of Independence, and committed their life, liberty and possessions to see a new nation birthed with religious freedom.

It is time for a new Christian revolutionary war. It is time for Christians all over the United States to stand up for our Judeo-Christian heritage. Our nation has slowly turned its back on God. We have forsaken our call as a nation, which is to be a light to all other nations. We have allowed a few in the secular minority to rob our freedoms, which came by the blood of many brave men and women throughout history.

Freedom of religion should be allowed so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of the individual (ie. saving a life using known medical, scientific methods that could potentially save a life)

It's too bad all Christians don't hold those beliefs. The problem would have solved itself a long time ago.

Over the same period about 8500 kids under 5 have drowned in swimming pools.
...and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know.

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

Wow. You went to college at some point?
When mentioning preventable causes of death, I assume you would approve of measures to mitigate them.

Doctor Errors: training and rigid checks of procedures.
Wrong Medication: training and rigid checks of procedures.
Lightning: proper grounding and lightning rods can help.
Prayer Instead of Medical Care: Criminal prosecution of offenders is a good start.

If any of these deaths were gonna happen anyway after long painful bouts of treatment, well I can't say prayer wasn't the right thing. Otherwise, yeah, charge the parents with neglect at the very least.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

You're not just a troll, but a predictable troll. Good job on being consistent.

These are some of the same people who say Universal Health Care will ruin our medical establishment.

And how many children have died since 1975 because their parents put their trust in medicine rather than prayer?

I've just recently joined a religion that tells us to punch Christians in the right cheek, and if we don't, we're condemned to hell. It also tells us that doctors are evil and that taking children to see them condemns them to hell. Also, it tells me that I am obliged to sleep with your girlfriends and daughters if they're disease-free, under 140 pounds, and have all their teeth.

It's my religion, so if any of you gives me crap me for it, they're violating the constitution.

How much cool stuff can i stack on there and still do it with impunity? This is fun!

Hopefully they were the only child that family had so at least the retard genes stopped there.

deadapostle: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

That contradicts the religion of the eight-year-old whose religion is not to get farked by creepy old men.

So what about the religion of the eight-year-old whose religion is not to die from a curable disease?

Wow, a whopping 274 in 34 years, huh? Meanwhile, an estimated 225,000 people die EVERY YEAR from iatrogenic causes (when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness)

/not saying to head to church rather than the hospital when you get sick, just saying making a mountain out of a mole hill is equally retarded

If parents want to allow natural selection to take its course, I say, let 'em.

And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

h2ogate: If parents want to allow natural selection to take its course, I say, let 'em.

Might as well. "Neglect" as much as I hate to say it, is subjective and the way the government defines it does nobody any good.

My dad didn't get proper dental care when he was young, even though it was available. My uncle lost most of his teeth as well. Is that neglect or, "Too poor for dental care and took what was available."

A friend of mine is a practicing Jehovah Witness. They don't allow blood transfusions. Things are probably going to get interesting for them.

Our society has become infatuated with "Life at any cost".

274 is a frigin drop in the bucket. We should be happy at such numbers. It shows that the problem is largely nonexistant in a population of 300 million. It's not worth wasting out time and attention on as there are far more pressing problems to address.

unlikely: I've just recently joined a religion that tells us to punch Christians in the right cheek, and if we don't, we're condemned to hell. It also tells us that doctors are evil and that taking children to see them condemns them to hell. Also, it tells me that I am obliged to sleep with your girlfriends and daughters if they're disease-free, under 140 pounds, and have all their teeth.

It's my religion, so if any of you gives me crap me for it, they're violating the constitution.

How much cool stuff can i stack on there and still do it with impunity? This is fun!



You built a big one there. Should take awhile to burn.

That's a really low number of deaths, 274 in 34 years. I'm not sure this is a huge problem, and it's probably not even in the top 1,000 ways that anyone regularly dies in this country.

Those of us who enjoy freedom of religion have to understand we're not always going to agree with other religions. While many of us can't understand someone dying, or letting someone die, because they believe in prayer over medicine, I'd rather people have that freedom than not have it. Forcing them to do something that goes against their beliefs is wrong, and in my mind, goes against the protections built into the Constitution.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

my religion says I can kick you in the nuts for 16 hours straight, don't deny my rights.

Nice headline troll, subby. I guess it's time for all the bad parents to call religous people crazy, so they can feel better about their daughters doing Oxy-contin and giving beej's on the school bus.

Heh, I'd guess the same people who would defend the right for parents to deny medical care for children for religious reasons would also be the first to condemn a parent who euthanized a terminally ill child to end their suffering.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

yeah, this.

Withholding treatment for minor children who really have no choice is wrong.

Natural selection. What's the problem?

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible. Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...


You do, of course, realize that most Christianists reject Catholicism and especially the Pope. Right?

I was born in 1974 and was given a 10% chance to live after my extreme right-wing devout Christian parents opted for emergency surgery when I was 3 days old, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

darwin answers my prayers occasionally

dead stupid people or dead spawn of stupid people still equals less stupid people

win!

I wonder how many childrens' lives have been saved by parents who used prayer rather than medicine. I'm guessing it's not "0", since there are all sorts of complications from medication, surgery, etc...

/not that I'm one of those "holistic healer" types. Just that, as with everything, we're only hearing one side of this story.

I think more kids than that have drowned in 5 gallon buckets.
275 children since 1984 (new window)

Question: How many times has it actually worked?

Note: Zero is an unacceptable answer, as the placebo effect is 100% accepted by the medical community and is in fact the benchmark of treatment effectiveness.



Question: How many kids died anyway or because of medicine?

But how many of them lived trollmitter?

zarberg: I was born in 1974 and was given a 10% chance to live after my extreme right-wing devout Christian parents opted for emergency surgery when I was 3 days old, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

what were the chances before surgery?
(glad you made it, cheers!)

To teach a child that ANY religion is the truth is child abuse. To allow a child to die because of your bat shiat crazy beliefs is murder.
Believe what you want, but when you start killing kids, all bets are off.

A kid in my school in 3rd grade died because his idiot parents decided that some old desert religion was going to save him. Didn't work.

I Said: SpeshilEdjukashin:

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic


THIS. Only 274. That's a low number for a time span of over 30 years.

rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

Seriously guys, Allah heals the wounded everyday, and nobody cares.

/not healing amputees is part of Allah's plan

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Yeah, there is freedom of religion. Nobody said anything about freedom to let your own kids die because you're an asshole. I bet those parents didn't skimp on the life insurance policy.

rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

Wow...just, wow.

I wish more would die , Save the plant and school taxes.

Since 6:00 this morning, 274 children have died in other countries because they farking starved to death. God bless America

Submitter is a farking troll.

No way in the world the number is that low.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Had you earlier asked me to speculate on the numbers, I would have stated something in the high thousands. Considering it's a mere pittance - less than 10 kids a year out of more than 100 million - I'm inclined to care even less about this subject.

Let these religious people do what they want with their own offspring. This is why you have your own reproductive organs.

I wish all of humanity would fall terminally ill, and all religious zealots would simply pray for their wellness...

/but that is wishing too much

bride_of_adam_cole: I Said: SpeshilEdjukashin:

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic


THIS. Only 274. That's a low number for a time span of over 30 years.

274 that died needlessly.

kronicfeld: What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

If it means you have to marry her, it makes you the Prophet Mohammad.

rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

LOL!

R.A.Danny: If any of these deaths were gonna happen anyway after long painful bouts of treatment, well I can't say prayer wasn't the right thing. Otherwise, yeah, charge the parents with neglect at the very least.

It's hard to say.

I wish my grandmother hadn't gone through chemotherapy. It was inevitable that she would have died of the cancer, when they discovered it, but I truly believe the chemotherapy ended her life faster than the cancer would have, and with much more unhappiness and illness than she would have had if she'd lived out her days and then been made as comfortable as possible when the cancer really did its thing.

I saw a vibrant woman, surprised to be diagnosed with cancer, literally fall to pieces in front of me as the treatment progressed. What was the point?

After that, I made a vow to myself that no matter what ever happened to me, I would never take a treatment like that, and would instead live as best I could, rather than risking dying anyway -- after some truly miserable treatment. There are a lot of valid reasons to not have modern medical care. I suppose it's different with a child, but not necessarily.

Anyway, as I said before, and others have said, 274 in 34 years is really nothing. Especially if you compare it to numbers who had treatment and died anyway because it wasn't effective, or who died because of the treatment, which certainly happens. What about people who died of AIDS after early blood transfusions? Even with all the precautions in place, I'd still be nervous if I was having a blood transfusion -- anything could happen, thanks to human error.

In general, I would go with modern medicine. Chemotherapy is a personal exception, after having seen what it does to people. But that doesn't mean I should tell other people how to live their lives and what to choose in terms of medical care. No more so than I want someone insisting I have treatments I don't want, or not having treatments I do need.

toonz: what were the chances before surgery?
(glad you made it, cheers!)

There was a part of my intestine that was 100% blocked, so I think my parents were told I would die for sure without the surgery.

And thank you, glad to be alive and trolling fark.com like the jerk I am.

Good.

The stupid little f*cks would've just been brainwashed into promoting the same ignorant, backwards thinking that their parents adhered to, thereby polluting humanity with another mouth-breathing, resource-consuming idiot. Let the child die, and let the parents deal with the remorse (assuming they even feel any).

I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever.

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

THIS

I'm sure a lot more than 274 children have died while under a doctors care.

Some are going to die, no matter what is done.

torch: Over the same period about 8500 kids under 5 have drowned in swimming pools.
...and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know.

Yeah but their parents didn't friggin sit there and watch them drown and assume that an angel would save them.

The first death they mentioned was a one-year old who died of pneumonia. OH COME ON!

Am I the only one who thought there'd be a helluva lot more kids who've died this way?
What's the number if adults are included?

/was thinking a thousand, easy

How disappointing. That number is nowhere near high enough.

Mary_Contrary: Some are going to die, no matter what is done.

especially if you do nothing to care for the disease they have.

Religion is the problem. Logical people need to stand up to the crazies and point out their stupidity. While you may believe in an invisible sky wizard, I refuse to participate in your fantasy. Keep it to yourself.

No mention of hippies treating their children's illness with nuts and hemp oil?

/people die all the time, it's cycle.

rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

10/10.

My girlfriend in college had a friend in high school, her best friend actually, that was a Jehovah's Witness. Girl got into a car accident, and needed a blood transfusion. That's it. That procedure would have saved her. Her parents let her die, as it was against their religion.

ne2d 2009-07-02 12:17:53 PM
Between 1990 and 2005, 292 children died in this country because their parents let them play with toys. God bless America.

Irwin Mainway would disagree with your theory.

/"Bag O' Broken Glass!"

Heamer: Good.

The stupid little f*cks would've just been brainwashed into promoting the same ignorant, backwards thinking that their parents adhered to, thereby polluting humanity with another mouth-breathing, resource-consuming idiot. Let the child die, and let the parents deal with the remorse (assuming they even feel any).

I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever.

That is not fair, I have several friends who escaped from just such families and are now happy, productive non believers.

Mary_Contrary: Some are going to die, no matter what is done.

That sounds like a good reason to do nothing to me!

284+ kids probably died of paper cut infections, too..

//that's a tiny number, even if most were almost certainly avoidable. I guess if you really place your faith in god, it makes sense, but have these people ever considered that maybe - just MAYBE - god gave us modern medicine?

I think the gene pool would benefit if all religious folks thought this way.

Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?

Christine Maggiore nods approvingly.

in other seemingly more important news......since 1975 hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of botched operations, bad drug reactions, inability to come out from anesthesia, etc...


/not saying you should refuse medical care
//but if it's all about numbers, far more children have died from accepting medical care
///it's not even close.

matto22: No mention of hippies treating their children's illness with nuts and hemp oil?

/people die all the time, it's cycle.

B-b-b-b-but marijuana is like vitamins?

Wait a minute...

We're getting choked up about eight people a year? Over the past thirty-four years? In a country of over three hundred million people?

Best not look at the traffic fatality statistics.

And if you think that it should be in some way easier or more important to reign in child deaths from religious belief than child deaths from, say, drunk or careless driving, then there's a great deal you need to learn about human nature. I'm not saying there's no solution... I am saying that there's not a lot of freedoms I'm willing to give up to solve the "the children of religious people very, very, very rarely die because of their family's beliefs" problem.

I'd rather give up the freedom to drive to stem the bloodletting on America's roads.

Wow, that almost comes close to the amount of kids that have died from drugs and surgeries in the name of science... Oh wait! Not even close.

Anything religion hits, it destroys. If they die... they die.

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...



Thank you. I can't stand the fact people think this nation was founded as a christian nation. Were there christians here, yes, but the founders eyed them with the required amount of distrust and fear.

Don't forget about those Jehovah Witnesses who refuse [often potentially life-saving] blood transfusions because of the rules of their religion.

/ *weeps for humanity*
// [shakes head at *crazy* religious people]
[i'm sure there's perfectly 'normal' religious people out there...]
/// i'm a agnostic/athiest/non-religious guy

rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

More like they don't mention MILLIONS of children who died with medical treatment.

physt: Logical people need to stand up to the crazies and point out their stupidity.

WHY?

/WCYY sucks, BTW

I had to change babysitters once because the dumb biatch asked me to sign an agreement that she would allow her take my kids to an ER 10 miles away instead of 2 blocks away because they administer plasma.

Farking Jehovah's Witnesses....

I know that since yesterday at least one child has been killed thanks to the family's pet snake.

kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

well you should post a link so most of the farkers could sign up

/pedobear likes how you think

They would have died anyway.

I would have thought the number higher than this.

RemyDuron: Heh, I'd guess the same people who would defend the right for parents to deny medical care for children for religious reasons would also be the first to condemn a parent who euthanized a terminally ill child to end their suffering.

That's because our society has an odd thing against euthanasia. I don't understand it -- medically assisted suicide for terminally ill patients who do not wish to suffer any longer makes perfect sense to me.

We have this whole "culture of life" -- at any cost, and once again, people are largely ignoring quality of life, which is important. We treat our cats and dogs better than we do humans who are suffering. When there is nothing that can be done for our pets, the vet will suggest euthanizing the animal because it is the only humane thing to do. Why do we not have the same regard for humans, instead opting to keep them hooked up to machines, on drug cocktails, extending their pain and unhappiness for as long as possible?

My mother passed away in December. It was the most devastating thing I could even fathom happening. I remember feeling horrible when, after the last time I saw her, I thought, "it would only be merciful for her to pass in her sleep, if she is not going to get better." She was telling me over and over, "this is no way to live" and constantly trying to pull out her oxygen and IVs. She wouldn't/couldn't eat. She thought people were poisoning her when we weren't there, and the doctors were terrible people who were hurting her. It was horrible. She passed three days later. And that was horrible, too... but I have often wondered since what the value of her being in a hospital, that upset and miserable, was, and if it would have been better to not even continue care beyond making her comfortable.

It's a tough decision when you make it that personal. I had a hard time writing it. But I'm sure, if she'd been asked, she'd have said to stop, just from conversations she and I used to have about keeping people alive. We were both profoundly affected by my grandmother's struggles with chemotherapy, and cut from much of the same cloth. I hated seeing her suffering, even though I miss her every single day of my life.

I wouldn't judge anyone who chose to euthanize someone who was not going to get better and was simply suffering until the inevitable happened. I would really just feel sympathy for them, for having to make such a difficult decision, and for putting the person's suffering before their own.

"Most U.S. states have child abuse laws allowing some religious exemptions"

What is wrong with this picture?

EsteeFlwrPot: Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?

Nope, this is the thread where normally sane and rational religious people defend crazy religious people who let their kids die for no good reason because they're both groups of religious people.

There's nothing wrong with being religious. There's something wrong with letting your kids die. Can't we all just put aside our religious beliefs and disbeliefs and lump these people in with the vaccines = autism crowd?

Bullshiat (new window)

274 is way too low.

walnuts55:I wish more would die , Save the plant and school taxes.

This.
Gotta save the plant. Definitely.

Since 1975, 274 million courses of antibiotics have been given to children have died in this country because their hysterical parents, M.D., thought antibiotics prayer, not the advice of their GP to STFU and GBTW medicine, would cure them. God bless America

/FT
//more important; endangering us all

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

And what about the child's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that was robbed from them by their brain dead parents?

Quick Fixer: I'd rather give up the freedom to drive to stem the bloodletting on America's roads.

We'll come after you by driving on the sidewalks.

Heamer: Good.

The stupid little f*cks would've just been brainwashed into promoting the same ignorant, backwards thinking that their parents adhered to, thereby polluting humanity with another mouth-breathing, resource-consuming idiot. Let the child die, and let the parents deal with the remorse (assuming they even feel any).

I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever.

Wow. I really hope that you're being sarcastic or trolling really really hard or something. You do realize that children don't get to choose which religion they're born into, right?

EsteeFlwrPot: Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?

Oh we fully understand the concept of faith. We're just calling bull shiat on it. No easter bunny, no santa, no baby jebus...

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

Pretty interesting trolling there. For you to actually believe that "Christians" believe what you mention, then you'd be the example of an educational product, making your own point about education. Nice and circular. Now get back under your bridge.

Great Metal Jesus: rational religious people

Religion is IRRATIONAL by definition.

Faith is nothing more than the lack of reason.

Allowing your child to die because you lack reason is criminal!

dennysgod: More like they don't mention MILLIONS of children who died with medical treatment.

Also, they neglect to mention all the lives saved BECAUSE of prayer. Oh, wait - that'd be a big fat zero wouldn't it?

Prayer Does Not Request


that is all.

manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

but if that same church marries you to your same-sex partner, it's not recognized?

WTF? I guess killing is OK and loving is not OK in our "christian" nation.

But my religion permits stoning certain sinners... like homosexuals and atheists.

Why is that illegal, but denying medical treatment for a minor ok? Shouldn't both be protected as an expression of religion?

serpent_sky: That's because our society has an odd thing against euthanasia. I don't understand it -- medically assisted suicide for terminally ill patients who do not wish to suffer any longer makes perfect sense to me.

We have this whole "culture of life" -- at any cost, and once again, people are largely ignoring quality of life, which is important. We treat our cats and dogs better than we do humans who are suffering. When there is nothing that can be done for our pets, the vet will suggest euthanizing the animal because it is the only humane thing to do. Why do we not have the same regard for humans, instead opting to keep them hooked up to machines, on drug cocktails, extending their pain and unhappiness for as long as possible?

Culture of life at any cost, except for that guy on death row who may not be guilty because the cops really needed to pin the murder on someone and he's black.

Also, we love life so much that we spent billions developing and selling viagra and cialis so we could fark more and make more life, ignoring those people with mental health illnesses that rotting away and a little preventative care would have made them great members of society.

netweavr: Bullshiat (new window)

274 is way too low.

Interesting link. Summary: When you take medical advice from a big tits TV blonde, don't be too surprised when you die.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei

Those foolish fundies, clinging to their Bibles, Torahs, and Korans.

Only we realize that it is the almighty Government that will protect and cure us.

I pledge allegiance, to the flag...

mike.thesauce: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." Galileo Galilei

You've been playing Civ IV recently too, huh?

Great Metal Jesus: Nope, this is the thread where normally sane and rational religious people defend crazy religious people who let their kids die for no good reason because they're both groups of religious people.

I don't think anyone is defending them but it's important to keep in mind that you can't blame religion. People are just dumb.

Great Metal Jesus: Can't we all just put aside our religious beliefs and disbeliefs and lump these people in with the vaccines = autism crowd?

Yes. I used to put a good amount of blame on Jenny McCarthy for that but now I just blame stupid people again. Jenny McCarthy would have shut up a long time ago if impressionable parents that would rather listen to a celebrity than their own doctors didn't pay to read her books about the subject, watch her talk about it on tv and kept vaccinating their kids. She's getting a ton of money for making kids sick and taking advantage of American stupidity.

serpent_sky: RemyDuron: Heh, I'd guess the same people who would defend the right for parents to deny medical care for children for religious reasons would also be the first to condemn a parent who euthanized a terminally ill child to end their suffering.

That's because our society has an odd thing against euthanasia. I don't understand it -- medically assisted suicide for terminally ill patients who do not wish to suffer any longer makes perfect sense to me.

We have this whole "culture of life" -- at any cost, and once again, people are largely ignoring quality of life, which is important. We treat our cats and dogs better than we do humans who are suffering. When there is nothing that can be done for our pets, the vet will suggest euthanizing the animal because it is the only humane thing to do. Why do we not have the same regard for humans, instead opting to keep them hooked up to machines, on drug cocktails, extending their pain and unhappiness for as long as possible?

My mother passed away in December. It was the most devastating thing I could even fathom happening. I remember feeling horrible when, after the last time I saw her, I thought, "it would only be merciful for her to pass in her sleep, if she is not going to get better." She was telling me over and over, "this is no way to live" and constantly trying to pull out her oxygen and IVs. She wouldn't/couldn't eat. She thought people were poisoning her when we weren't there, and the doctors were terrible people who were hurting her. It was horrible. She passed three days later. And that was horrible, too... but I have often wondered since what the value of her being in a hospital, that upset and miserable, was, and if it would have been better to not even continue care beyond making her comfortable.

It's a tough decision when you make it that personal. I had a hard time writing it. But I'm sure, if she'd been asked, she'd have said to stop, just from conversations she and I used to have about keeping people alive. We were both profoundly affected by my grandmother's struggles with chemotherapy, and cut from much of the same cloth. I hated seeing her suffering, even though I miss her every single day of my life.

I wouldn't judge anyone who chose to euthanize someone who was not going to get better and was simply suffering until the inevitable happened. I would really just feel sympathy for them, for having to make such a difficult decision, and for putting the person's suffering before their own.

So sorry about your mother, that truly is saddening.
My mom has actually told me that if she ever ends up like that to turn the ventilator off or OD her on morphine because she would rather be dead than unable to live. I can only hope that I'll never be in that situation, but it is something we have talked about.

Since 1975, about 35 years, ONLY 274 children have died because of this.

EACH year, about 195,000 people die because of preventable doctor errors in hospitals.

Seems like you are better off going with the prayer therapy and avoiding the hospitals^[1]. You could make a case that the odds are better with prayer^[2].

/[1]lies, damned lies, and statistics
//[2]you'd be wrong

Is that a lot? In case you hadn't noticed, we are getting a bit overcrowded down on this rock.

I think Freedom of religion is fine...it is too bad children don't get that right.

How many died because of abortion last year?

Oh, nevermind, you all believe euthanasia is ok because it's "part of a woman" until born right? All men that believe in abortion, I hope you impregnate a woman and she aborts the baby against your will.


/not really, but it happened to me

Just got here. Has anyone posted this depressing site yet? There are other causes listed but it seems most are deaths and harm caused by religious parents. (pops)

all Religions are frauds.


You can have all the religious freedom you want as a consenting adult.

You should not have the rights to kill your children in the "belief"
that an imaginary figure is going to fix your child.


Your imaginary God might be busy strangling a 2 yr old in Florida and not see your childs cancerous growth.

IXI Jim IXI: Quick Fixer: I'd rather give up the freedom to drive to stem the bloodletting on America's roads.

We'll come after you by driving on the sidewalks.



OH GOD NOOOOOO!

// link is hot
//// like the sun on that guy's back

rickytickytappy

Good.

Karen Avery

Age: 7
Kirtland, Ohio


Murdered
April 17, 1989
The Avery family joined a Mormon splinter group led by a self-declared prophet when they moved to Kirtland in 1987. They were brutally murdered by the leader of this cult


Religion!

/Now I'm sad
//Glad Unitarians aren't this insane

It's raining so hard this little town floods. A devout Christian woman is looking out of her 2nd floor window when a boat comes by. "Get in the boat, we'll take you to safety!" Yells the captain. "No, thanks. God will save me." says the woman, and the boat roars away.

The flood continues, and gets so high the woman has to sit on her roof. A small row boat comes around the corner. "Hey, come on. I'll help you to safety." "No, thanks, God will save me." says the woman and the guy rows the boat away.

Finally, the water is so high she is perched on her chimney. A helicopter flies overhead. The co-pilot yells down "Hey. lady! Grab the ladder, we'll pull you up!" "No, thanks. God will save me." They fly away.

She drowns.

At the gates of Heaven, the woman is very upset, and requests to see God right away. "I waited for you and you never saved me. I want to know why!"

"Lady," He says, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"

Each day that goes by, I become less and less accommodating of superstitious morons. If you believe in some Daddy in the Sky or other such bullshiat, you're in with the Easter-Bunny and Tooth-Fairy believers as far as I'm concerned.

No, I will not "respect" your stupidity. You believe in an afterlife? Great... I'd be more than happy to help you get there if you'd just shut.the.fark.up. I won't even make you pay for the bullet.

How many has God healed in that time period?

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

I'm sorry, but we're sensationalizing here. You can take your logic and rational thought and piss off.

turtleking: You should not have the rights to kill your children in the "belief"
that an imaginary figure is going to fix your child.

I'm sure many of them are aware that there is no fix. There is a distinct and significant difference between believing god will fix your kid vs. your religion disallowing medical intervention of certain types.

We'd all be better off if we let nature take its course more often.

Ziploc'd Oreos: Karen Avery

Age: 7
Kirtland, Ohio


Murdered
April 17, 1989
The Avery family joined a Mormon splinter group led by a self-declared prophet when they moved to Kirtland in 1987. They were brutally murdered by the leader of this cult

That one was surprising to me. Death due to religious belief doesn't tend to be that direct.

// The Lord works in mysterious ways

EsteeFlwrPot

Why can't it be both? If the religious sect specifically says that you should do X, where X is praying for your child instead of getting medical help or refusing life-saving blood transfusions, why isn't that specific religious sect also at fault?

You can't overlook the power of the cultural framework one is brought up in. If your entire social network is saying "pray the disease away" aren't they at fault as well? Blaming stupid people and only stupid people seems to me to be the easy way out. You can't replace a few parts in a wholly broken system and have any expectation of solving the problem.

dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?

You can go ask him yourself if you want.

Shani: Just got here. Has anyone posted this depressing site yet? There are other causes listed but it seems most are deaths and harm caused by religious parents. (pops)

Wow and Wow.....

Saddly I did snicker at the snake handeling family, clearly they were sinners!

zarberg: toonz: what were the chances before surgery?
(glad you made it, cheers!)

There was a part of my intestine that was 100% blocked, so I think my parents were told I would die for sure without the surgery.

And thank you, glad to be alive and trolling fark.com like the jerk I am.

well, good for your parents, you jerk! ;P

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Freedom of religion does not empower you to practice your beliefs to the detriment of other individuals welfare, particularly not those under the legal age of autonomy. Just like freedom of speech does not allow you to endanger others (old-saw: yelling fire in a theater).

Now tell me, did I just take the troll-bait or are you really that stupid?

Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

deadapostle: I'm pretty sure that more children have died in the US of sneezing since 1974, so I'm not really thinking that this is much of a social issue. The parents should be jailed, preferably before the child dies, but otherwise, this isn't newsworthy.

If you come to FARK for "newsworthy" you're doing it about 99% wrong.

People who force religious mindgarbage on kids are as bad as molestors as far as I am concerned. And sometimes even worse.

If anything we should encourage religious people to keep the faith when their children get sick, that way there will be less of them in the future.

Mija: Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

Meh, 5/10

dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?

Zero

and if you tell me otherwise I'd like proof.

dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?

Some illnesses do respond to no treatment. God has nothing to do with them.

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

This. I think the Jesus lovers are nutty, but honestly, more children die a month from mal-treatment by doctors than have died in the last 40 years by being treated with prayer.

Sorry it it's been posted already:


What's the Harm? (new window)

Mija: Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

It's not feigning if i'm actually outraged. Try being one of the few kids in school that didn't know enough to pretend like they went to church so they wouldn't be persecuted mercilessly.

BobtheFascist: manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

It's a shame you can have kids when you're poor too, but no one seems to care about that.

Specious. I care about that, and most people I know also care about that.

you clearly care too, are you a "nobody"? Is this like that "war on Christians" I keep hearing about when I flip past certain channels?

Mija: Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

Hey if we're going to turn this into a discussion of body counts I don't think us heathens are going to come close to organized religion.

/I'm just saying

Why Won't God Heal Amputees? (new window)

my religious beliefs say I should kill 6 babies every single week BUT THE FASCIST US GOVERNMENT WON'T LET ME!!!!!11ELEVEN

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

QUINTUPLE WHARRGARBL

dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?


ZERO

I thought the number would be a lot higher considering the number of idiots who believe in this.

Mija: Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

Why thank you ;)

We haven't even tapped our true potential yet.

AverageJoe77: Mija: Millions have died from abortion because people have no respect for Gods creations and life. People act like animals in heat and let lust rule their lives. They call puncturing a childs head and sucking it's brains out "choice". People defend the mass murder of children while feigning outrage over Christians.

Most of you are the epitome of hypocrisy and evil.

Hey if we're going to turn this into a discussion of body counts I don't think us heathens are going to come close to organized religion.

/I'm just saying

Unless you count the Romans. =)

And to think, many of the particularly rabid type of "god botherer" are PRO LIFE and think that terminating a blob of cells with no developed nervous system is tantamount to murder.

Yet that would let their OWN CHILD die a painful and lingering death?

All to gain some "brownie points" with their particular imaginary sky-fairy so he'll let them into his heaven?

This is really the ultimate act of selfishness. Freedom of religion be damned, lock these superstitious sheep up for LIFE! (or at least an institute for the criminally insane)

Oh, and do the same to the Preacher who convinced them to do this, too!

R.A.Danny: This never ever happens anywhere but in the good old United States.

Not necessarily.
In January 2007, sextuplets were born 15 weeks to Jehovah's Witness parents at BC Children's Hospital in Vancouver. The majority of preemy babies need blood transfusions, but the JW religion forbids it. Two of the babies died before the province ordered any required transfusions for the surviving quadruplets.

One Source

NorCalLos: I guess it's time for all the bad parents to call religous people crazy, so they can feel better about their daughters doing Oxy-contin and giving beej's on the school bus.

In my experience, those are the kids of the religious people.

/went to private Christian school
//two girls were pregnant at graduation
///only 10 girls in my senior class

A whole 274 children? Because their parents put faith before medicine? Okay; how many have died because their parents put medicine before faith. Or, even better because their "parents"
put pleasure, then medicine before faith.

Fair is fair.

Great Metal Jesus: Why can't it be both? If the religious sect specifically says that you should do X, where X is praying for your child instead of getting medical help or refusing life-saving blood transfusions, why isn't that specific religious sect also at fault?

If any religious sect/person/whatever is telling you to refuse medical treatment in a life threatening situation then it isn't a religion people should be following. That said, people should be smart enough to know that.

"Since 1975, 274 children have died in this country because their parents thought prayer, not medicine, would cure them. God bless America"

I just wanted to point out that I expect everyone who calls abortion "murder" to call 'letting-your-child-die-because-you-decided-to-pray-INSTEAD-of-giving-them-medi c ine' "murder", and I mean it.

If you truly believe that allowing people to terminate unborn fetuses counts as murder then you can not deny that intentionally letting a child/toddler/preteen die is anything but murder and I expect it to receive the same censure from the pro-life crowd that abortion receives.

An authoritarian government that controlled our lives would certainly prevent this from happening and make life much better. Freedom is so 19th century.

Let natural selection do it's job.

thats pretty bad, no doubt, but how many children have died because their parents thought abortion was ok?

stevenr868: thats pretty bad, no doubt, but how many children have died because their parents thought abortion was ok?

Children? Absolutely none.

stevenr868: thats pretty bad, no doubt, but how many children have died because their parents thought abortion was ok?

None because an unborn fetus is not a child. It is a fetus. When it is born it is a baby. A few years later it becomes a toddler/child/whippersnapper

The Bruce Dickinson: Religion is IRRATIONAL by definition.

Faith is nothing more than the lack of reason.

Allowing your child to die because you lack reason is criminal!

I thought that faith was trusting in something without ample empirical evidence. That's what I was taught, anyway.

But I agree that these people need to be stopped.

Conservationist: God bless natural selection in all of its forms, or we'd all still have 85 IQ points like our ancestors in Africa!

Isn't that a little above the average IQ of both Baptists and Mormons? Seriously, I believe it is.

stevenr868: thats pretty bad, no doubt, but how many children have died because their parents thought abortion was ok?

What's your definition of a child?

stevenr868: thats pretty bad, no doubt, but how many children have died because their parents thought abortion was ok?

Marvelous troll! 8/10

Oh, and they're just tissue - not kids. How many tumors have died because their hosts thought chemo was OK?

Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

EsteeFlwrPot: Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?

You've come to the right place. Shall I take your coat?

zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

I really don't think this is about G-d, it's about stupid uneducated parents making bad decisions because they don't understand that medical treatment is necessary.

BergZ: I just wanted to point out that I expect everyone who calls abortion "murder" to call 'letting-your-child-die-because-you-decided-to-pray-INSTEAD-of-giving-them-medi c ine' "murder", and I mean it.

If you truly believe that allowing people to terminate unborn fetuses counts as murder then you can not deny that intentionally letting a child/toddler/preteen die is anything but murder and I expect it to receive the same censure from the pro-life crowd that abortion receives.

Allowing someone to die of natural causes is the same as killing them? LOL. Wut? I'm not pro-life, but you're an idiot.

love-m'-beer: Why Won't God Heal Amputees? (new window)

God doesn't heal amputees because our bodies aren't designed to regenerate limbs from scratch. Although that might make penis enlargement more amusing..

That's using your intelligently-designed brain!

How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

EsteeFlwrPot: zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

I really don't think this is about G-d, it's about stupid uneducated parents making bad decisions because they don't understand that medical treatment is necessary.

Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

EsteeFlwrPot: G-d

WTF? Is your O broken?

budsterr: How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

Zero. They aren't babies until they are born.

You really need to stop focusing on the 274 that have died and celebrate the 10s of millions that are being kept alive by daily prayer. Think of the mess we'd have if people stopped praying to keep them safe. Those 274 were obviously evil or were rightously unhealed because of the sins of their fathers.


/Have heard this reasoning
//These people are worse than savages
///because savages didn't have our medical technology.

zabadu: EsteeFlwrPot: zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

I really don't think this is about G-d, it's about stupid uneducated parents making bad decisions because they don't understand that medical treatment is necessary.

Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

NO. The radical pro-birth agenda machine will turn ANY discussion into an abortion debate. That's God's most important lesson, you know. He meant the first commmandment to read THOU SHALT BIRTH.

ricewater_stool: Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

Depends on the child's age. The term mature minors (not sure if this is the correct legal term) or adolescents who are capable of explaining their beliefs to judges and laqwyers as well as to doctors.

zabadu: budsterr: How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

Zero. They aren't babies until they are born.

not to get into THAT discussion but I think most rational people have to admit that the moment of birth is not the beginning of humanity.

austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

budsterr: How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

If only there were a way to just murder the gay ones.

Galileo's Daughter: ricewater_stool: Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

Depends on the child's age. The term mature minors (not sure if this is the correct legal term) or adolescents who are capable of explaining their beliefs to judges and laqwyers as well as to doctors.

Sorry, no. Unless emancipated, which takes oodles of time, maturity is usually 18 years of age (sometimes 21).

skinny-lil-b: zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

NO. The radical pro-birth agenda machine will turn ANY discussion into an abortion debate. That's God's most important lesson, you know. He meant the first commmandment to read THOU SHALT BIRTH.

He meant "Thou Shalt Birth" but came up with "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." instead?
Old Yahweh must've been hitting the Jesus Juice pretty hard that day.

Arnold T Pants: Allowing someone to die of natural causes is the same as killing them? LOL. Wut? I'm not pro-life, but you're an idiot.

Well think about it this way. Let's say someone is having a heart attack right in front of you. The typical person would call 911 and try to help them. If you stand there and watch him die right in front of you, doing absolutely nothing to save him, just standing there, wouldn't you think you had a part to play in his death?

You can't just straight-compare the number of children who died because their parents forwent medical procedures to those who died of complications of medicine. There are certain factors that you have to take into consideration.

For example, you have to keep the ratio of people who practice each to the number of people who unintentionally died. While the number of children who died is relatively low, the number of people who would refuse their child insulin because God tells them to is very, very low.

274 children since 1974? OMG!

I guess that means we don't have to worry about 4,000+ children wo die EACH YEAR from medical errors.

budsterr: /wow I just pwned millions of liberals

and if by Pwned you mean talked like a retarded monkey, yes you did, keep up the good work!


logruszed: zabadu: EsteeFlwrPot: zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

I really don't think this is about G-d, it's about stupid uneducated parents making bad decisions because they don't understand that medical treatment is necessary.

Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....
Really though I have also seen posters do it out of respect for folks....Or so they claim.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

(0.02/10.00)

Even skinnyhead does better.

EsteeFlwrPot: Well think about it this way. Let's say someone is having a heart attack right in front of you. The typical person would call 911 and try to help them. If you stand there and watch him die right in front of you, doing absolutely nothing to save him, just standing there, wouldn't you think you had a part to play in his death?

Now, what if you started waving...

The Great Whangdoodle, the Infinite Whatever, is dead. Long live the Thing!

Religion doesn't kill people. At least not exclusively. Ideology kills people. Religion is just a subset of that. Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Capitalism, Science and Atheism all have blood on their hands.

/Usually the fault of the dumbest or most power-hungry adherents.

195,000 (^)

zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

You mean 'God bless the idiots in the world' don't you Subby?

Add that total to the Thousands of Children of Jehovah's Witness parents who have died for not allowing Blood Transfusions, and you begin to realize what a bad problem this really is.

I am so thankful to be out of the CULT known as Jehovah's Witnesses. They have taken away the lives of so many innocent children.

IXI Jim IXI: EsteeFlwrPot: Well think about it this way. Let's say someone is having a heart attack right in front of you. The typical person would call 911 and try to help them. If you stand there and watch him die right in front of you, doing absolutely nothing to save him, just standing there, wouldn't you think you had a part to play in his death?

Now, what if you started waving...

what about the usual DIAF, or "kill yourself now" or whatever pleasantry that the more intelligent Farkers throw around at each other on a daily basis. What if that last "kill yourself now" was enough to push the recipient over the edge? Does the poster have a part in his death?

skinny-lil-b: NO. The radical pro-birth agenda machine will turn ANY discussion into an abortion debate. That's God's most important lesson, you know. He meant the first commmandment to read THOU SHALT BIRTH.

So what you're saying is God says it's ok to rape because that can lead to birth?

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore

My bloodline is descended from cannibals.

Would you care to participate in one of our religious rites? You would be the guest of honor.

/human sacrifice

CapitolG: budsterr: /wow I just pwned millions of liberals

and if by Pwned you mean talked like a retarded monkey, yes you did, keep up the good work!


logruszed: zabadu: EsteeFlwrPot: zabadu: Oh great, now this has become an abortion thread.

Can there ever be a God questioning thread without abortion coming in and taking over? Because we all know, you can't mention God without condemning abortion.

I really don't think this is about G-d, it's about stupid uneducated parents making bad decisions because they don't understand that medical treatment is necessary.

Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....
Really though I have also seen posters do it out of respect for folks....Or so they claim.

Yeah or they have a fetish and are practicing exotification of the other.

Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.

/sheep
//rapture will be tomorrow
///free beer, tomorrow only

274 less fundies is OK by me.

They either live and get forever screwed up by the whackadoodle parents or they die because of the whackadoodle parents.

They are their kids. Who cares.

zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

If you understood the Jewish part, then you'd understand the "eliminating the O" part, too.

This is a short answer that might help.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_Jewish_people_use_the_word_G-d_instead_of_God

I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.


1/10. Lacks originality.

Let me see if I understand. These religious folks are saying that they're Pro-Choice when it comes to killing the already-born, but abortion is murder?

kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

skullkrusher: what about the usual DIAF, or "kill yourself now" or whatever pleasantry that the more intelligent Farkers throw around at each other on a daily basis. What if that last "kill yourself now" was enough to push the recipient over the edge? Does the poster have a part in his death?

I think I'd prefer "hey hey hey hey...hey hey hey hey...hey hey hey...goodbye..."

Let me correct my previous post;

Organized religion is the root of 99% of evil

There is a lot of cash to be made in religion and this is America, does the rest really need an explanation?

/mega churches
//cash cows

skullkrusher: what about the usual DIAF, or "kill yourself now" or whatever pleasantry that the more intelligent Farkers throw around at each other on a daily basis. What if that last "kill yourself now" was enough to push the recipient over the edge? Does the poster have a part in his death?

No because whoever actually killed themselves took it upon themselves to end their life. If you see someone in need of medical care and you find yourself in the position to give it to them or help them get that help or they die and you do nothing, their death would partially be your fault, in my opinion.

zabadu: Galileo's Daughter: ricewater_stool: Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

Depends on the child's age. The term mature minors (not sure if this is the correct legal term) or adolescents who are capable of explaining their beliefs to judges and laqwyers as well as to doctors.

Sorry, no. Unless emancipated, which takes oodles of time, maturity is usually 18 years of age (sometimes 21).

Here it is. The legal term is mature minor.

http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

Cambo_: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.


1/10. Lacks originality.

1/10 eh?

Doesn't make it false :P

EsteeFlwrPot: CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

Can't you see that your obsessions can sometimes be taken as offensive? How do you feel about people who are only into Asian women? You get that is treating the individual or the group as fetish objects, right?

We're just people for Hashem's sake.

I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Let me correct my previous post;

Organized religion is the root of 99% of evil

There is a lot of cash to be made in religion and this is America, does the rest really need an explanation?


Fail. There is plenty of cash to be made in reason, science and atheism as well.

And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Cambo_: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.


1/10. Lacks originality.

1/10 eh?

Doesn't make it false :P

Doesn't make it true either...

Arnold T Pants 2009-07-02 04:19:46 PM
BergZ: I just wanted to point out that I expect everyone who calls abortion "murder" to call 'letting-your-child-die-because-you-decided-to-pray-INSTEAD-of-giving-them-medi c ine' "murder", and I mean it.

If you truly believe that allowing people to terminate unborn fetuses counts as murder then you can not deny that intentionally letting a child/toddler/preteen die is anything but murder and I expect it to receive the same censure from the pro-life crowd that abortion receives.

"Allowing someone to die of natural causes is the same as killing them? LOL. Wut? I'm not pro-life, but you're an idiot."

I agree with you that 'watching someone die and do nothing' is not the same as 'murder'; on the other hand 'performing a legal medical procedure' is not the same as 'murder' either.

The reason for my post was to point out the many hypocrisies of the oxymoronically named 'Pro-Life' movement. They spend an awful lot of time calling doctors "baby killers" who run "death camps" but they don't spend a single breath condemning people who just watch their born, named, and documented children die before their eyes.

/They're like PETA, in a way, they only care about the "cute ones".

I am all for spirituality, but when money is being made in the millions/hundreds of millions, that's when the line begins to blur.

Oh, please, like stupidity is limited to religion. Tell me, how many children will become ill and even die because their parents do not believe in vaccines or would rather treat their children with "alternative" medicine because to them "nature made" will always be better than "science made"?

An idiot is an idiot is an idiot. Putting in God or taking It out doesn't make a difference.

amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

logruszed: Can't you see that your obsessions can sometimes be taken as offensive? How do you feel about people who are only into Asian women? You get that is treating the individual or the group as fetish objects, right?

What the heck are you talking about?

Farkazoid: Add that total to the Thousands of Children of Jehovah's Witness parents who have died for not allowing Blood Transfusions, and you begin to realize what a bad problem this really is.

I am so thankful to be out of the CULT known as Jehovah's Witnesses. They have taken away the lives of so many innocent children.

You troll!!! you lie!!!! you have shiat on your face for just hitting google alert " my old religion".

Cambo_: Fail. There is plenty of cash to be made in reason, science and atheism as well.

1) how is that a fail if it's true?

2) Are you actually saying that there is a larger market for selling shiat to atheists than there is to sell to religious people? If there's one thing fundies love more than Jesus it's schlocky things about Jesus.

seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

mekki: An idiot is an idiot is an idiot. Putting in God or taking It out doesn't make a difference.

Amen brother...

Daffydil: mekki: An idiot is an idiot is an idiot. Putting in God or taking It out doesn't make a difference.

Amen brother...

2nd'd

SpeshilEdjukashin: ricewater_stool: Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves.

This is exactly where the (scary, IMHO) shift is actually taking place. It used to be that short of beating your kid in to hamburger or sticking your dick in them, parents "owned" their children until they were 18 and could raise them as they saw fit. Now, the government is wanting to get involved at every turn. On one hand, if your 5 year old boy decides to "pants" a girl in kindergarten, he's a registered sex offender for life and your entire family has to go live under a bridge - on the other hand, if you find out he did it first, and spank him to teach him a lesson, he'll be kidnapped by state CPS officers and given to a child molester posing as a foster parent, and you'll go to jail. There is no such thing as common sense anymore.

The problem is that we elect morons to make these decisions. If we had some, I don't know, REQUIREMENTS for elected officials, like ANY OTHER JOB, these situations could be avoided.

skullkrusher: Daffydil: mekki: An idiot is an idiot is an idiot. Putting in God or taking It out doesn't make a difference.

Amen brother...

2nd'd

That's what i've been saying this entire thread and people shiat on me. I don't get it.

/stupid people are stupid

EsteeFlwrPot: CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?


logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

Agent Nick Fury: How many have died from doctor errors?
Or wrong medication?
Or getting hit by lightning?

Medicine is a very complicated thing and it is far from flawless, but it's by far the best thing we've got.

If you're still so butthurt that some people who turn to medicine are unlucky and get screwed over, feel free to provide an alternative with a higher % rate of survival for your average sickness/condition.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

You have freedom of religion as it pertains to you.

You don't have the right to brainwash a minor into your religion and kill them slowly through inaction, in the name of said religion.

You should and will be charged with negligence, child endangerment and possibly even homicide.

Daffydil: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Cambo_: I_Should_Be_Working_Right_Now: Religion is the root of 99% of anything evil.


1/10. Lacks originality.

1/10 eh?

Doesn't make it false :P

Doesn't make it true either...

Of course it does

More people have died in the name of religion then anything else (other then natural causes).

Yes, I know, the all mighty god may give you a simple answer to where we came from (disregarding science), but I have no faith in humanity, let alone a 'god' that humans created.

Who is gods god? I mean if there is one for us...

seamus james: skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

nice try

CapitolG: Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?

It's pretty obvious that was about me judging by whats been said to me in past threads and it was meant as an insult, at least the second person I quoted.

I know why I do it, thanks. That's not the issue here.

Since 1975, 274 children have died in this country because their parents thought prayer, not medicine, would cure them.

Its probably better that way...

skullkrusher: seamus james: skullkrusher: seamus james: And 12 have died in snake attacks, but that's a dangerous crisis. If you include all the dead Iraqis - victims of a war started because of religious belief - I think its safe to say, the snake threat is relatively mild by comparison.

which war was that SJ?

Our current one. George Bush said on many occasions that god directs his actions. Sounds like religious belief to me.

nice try

I do what I can.

I Said: /honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic

How about the millions who merely had their heads filled with rubbish, bigotry, and lies?

And "only 274" dying...how many thousands more suffered needlessly?

skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

CapitolG: logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

Can you explain what he's talking about with the fetish thing? I don't understand how typing G-d is some type of fetish or what he's on about.

EsteeFlwrPot: Arnold T Pants: Allowing someone to die of natural causes is the same as killing them? LOL. Wut? I'm not pro-life, but you're an idiot.

Well think about it this way. Let's say someone is having a heart attack right in front of you. The typical person would call 911 and try to help them. If you stand there and watch him die right in front of you, doing absolutely nothing to save him, just standing there, wouldn't you think you had a part to play in his death?

That was stupid, and the answer is no.

skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

Why would anyone you know tell you they're a pedo?

Some of you need to put things into perspective a little bit.

The percentage of people that die from a medical mistake out of the number of people that have medical procedures is very very small.

The percentage of kids who die of curable/treatable diseases (i.e. diabetes) because of fanatical religious parents that wont seek the treatment/cure is very very high.

Regardless of the statistics letting a child die of a treatable illness is child abuse.

falcon176: 195,000 (^)

If everybody died of old age, it'd be pretty darn crowded in this rock.

ithaqua: rcain: And of course the article makes no mention about the MILLIONS of children whose lives are saved by the power of prayer every day.

Wow...just, wow.

Yea, god was gonna kill them, but changed his mind due to prayers.

Praying...when you want to do something without having to do anything.

CapitolG: EsteeFlwrPot: CapitolG: Well they saw Tatsuma do it... so.....

logruszed: Some people think they are conservative or orthodox jews.

Even if they are not actually conservative or orthodox jews.

I'm not biting so you can stop here. Thanks.

Wow, EsteeFlwrPot Way to see your own guilt, nobody named you, you came out of the woodwork and chose to take that as an insult.

If your faith was strong, wouldn't you know that the reason you do it is based on faith and have no need to take offence?


logruszed: Normally I don't mind being a fetish object, but this is just farking stupid. "God" isn't even one of the sacred names, nor is it even a Hebrew word.

But clearly the word god references a sacred name, If somebody truly believes it is a Fetish issue, why stop them?

Euphemism treadmill. You can replace an "offensive" word with another word, that word is now the offensive word. Ad-infinitum.

The notion that as a joo I'm intellectually incapable of figuring this out is denigrating to my being. Rabbinic councils also generally agree that the use of "G_d" as a substitute is pretty farking pointless and only do it out of fear of offending others, even though those others are saying the same thing. It's Ouroboros chasing its tail.

Now I can see it if you're talking in context of actual scripture where traditional Hebrew is in use. Just like if you come to my temple you're going to wear the kepot, just like if I go to your turf I'll follow your traditions. But the whole "G_d" thing has no real tradition behind it and only serves as an artificial divide between people, thus exotification.

Yeah there are a very small percentile of actual jews who choose to take offense. Probably the same people who take offense to everydamnthing just like every group has some of these types. Their offense is not founded in any kind of tradition or Rabbinical mandate.

EsteeFlwrPot: It's pretty obvious that was about me judging by whats been said to me in past threads and it was meant as an insult, at least the second person I quoted.

Dig up the thread where I questioned your faith(ya know, to establish precedence).

Good luck!

CrankMyBlueSax: budsterr: How many millions of babies have been murdered since 1972 because liberals think it is their right to do so?

/wow I just pwned millions of liberals
//I think I have earned myself a sandwich

If only there were a way to just murder the gay ones.

Oh but on the contra, with Genetic Screening in the near future we can. Now isn't that scary (or not. depending on your political views)

Wow. 274 in over over thirty years in a country of 250 million plus?!?!?!?!?!?!?

How about we look at the number of parents who smoke in front of their kids increasing the chances the children pick up smoking?

This sort of shiat is the worst type of cherry picking. Throw in some kids death and cause an uproar, meanwhile people over feed their kids, let them play xbox for 8 hours per day, etc. If you really want to be fair, pull their population averages and look at their infant mortality rate. I'd bet a cool 10K it's higher than a whole lot of the other segments of the population.

amanogowa: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

Since the molesting went on for years, I think the jokes still have plenty of life left them. Also, the church did A TON to aid the ESCAPE of these perverts, moving them from church to church when allegations arose. Aiding and abetting? You betcha.

/Former Catholic

How many children of families without insurance have died just this year due to lack of preventative care?

/Religion is bad. Lack of health care is more... bad-er..er.

seamus james: amanogowa: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

I know of no other mainstream, 'modern' religion where the officials supported and aided child molestation.

/modern in quotes because nothing based on the words of 3 thousand year old teachings from shephards is exactly modern.

Since the molesting went on for years, I think the jokes still have plenty of life left them. Also, the church did A TON to aid the ESCAPE of these perverts, moving them from church to church when allegations arose. Aiding and abetting? You betcha.

/Former Catholic

exactly.

Multiple 'fathers' from my local parish are now in trouble and have either lost lawsuits or are in jail

Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

louiedog: skullkrusher: amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

ahh, the quick wit of amanogowa. Too bad I know 100s of us and not a one thinks that's a good thing. But don't let that get in the way of a cute little quip, right? Get some new material.

Why would anyone you know tell you they're a pedo?

Everyone I know is disgusted by the actions of a small minority of priests and the Church hierarchy's denial and obfuscation regarding that bullshiat. Many stopped going to Church as a result however still consider themselves Catholic. That's what I meant.

"So when someone says "What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic."

I can't help react to what is just another typical interweb ninja response meant to insult and inflame.

/really my problem.
//shouldn't care
///former churchgoer
////still hate snarky farkwads.

zabadu: Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

I'm not Jewish but I'd imagine they say something like "hey, guy who we can't call by name, this is what I want"

ricewater_stool 2009-07-02 12:07:47 PM
Adults are free to practice whatever religion they like and to refuse medical treatment of any kind if they like.

Children are not capable of making these decisions for themselves. If their parents are unwilling to get proper medical treatment for their child and the child dies, the parents should be convicted of child abuse and/or negligent homicide.

THIS

It's simple really. You can practice whatever religion you want. But if your actions (or lack thereof in these cases) result in death or serious injury to someone in your care, you're responsible! When you injured or killed someone other than yourself, it ceased to be a religious issue and became a criminal act.

zabadu: Galileo's Daughter: http://www.cqcapd.state.ny.us/newsletter/74cclong.htm

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

skullkrusher: sharpie_69: zabadu: austerity101: zabadu: Please explain why some people say G-d instead of God.

Short answer: they're Jewish.

I understand the Jewish part. I don't understand the "eliminating the O" part.

And the xtian thing makes sense to you?

In this case there is a AW who decided to pretend to be a holy roller. So, just ignore it and move on.

XTian does make sense. Even way back in the day they used the letter X to represent Christ. Well, more accurately the Greek letter Chi since that is the first letter in the Greek word for Christ, "Christos".

I think the G-d thing has something to do with not speaking the name of God aloud that carried over from the OT but that I am not sure of

So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

Prayer is not taking a name in vain, it's a salutation. Exempt.

That numbers got to be a bit low, right? Not even 300 in over 30 years?

kindms: 274 less fundies is OK by me.

PRECISELY!

But let's take a moment to remember the millions of liberals who have been aborted. One of them could have held the cure for religion!

So in 35 years we've had .0000000457% of the population die in order to ensure freedom from religious persecution. Sounds like a fair exchange to me.

logruszed: Rabbinic councils also generally agree that the use of "G_d" as a substitute is pretty farking pointless and only do it out of fear of offending others

I say Error on the side of caution, if somebody's faith is so consuming that they see the world "God" as holding the same power As the Hebrew name, what is the harm?


logruszed: the whole "G_d" thing has no real tradition behind it and only serves as an artificial divide between people

But they want that divide, in the same way the Phelps clan wants to be separated from the rest of the Christen community... I get it is not healthy, but to each his own.

The big reason I see no issue in it? I would want others to respect my believes (No matter how crazy they seem).... So I do the same.

I'm not a religious nut (hell at best, I'm a nonpracticing baptist), but the level of cynicism and vitriolic hate towards people of faith is disgusting.

That's the one thing I hate about the internet. The 20-28 childless cool cat somehow has become the dominant social presence. Maybe there was more people thinking like this decades ago, but dammit if you acted like this kind of anti-social arsehole like most of you people are presenting, a stern talking to would've been earned.

Good god, disagree, don't believe, whatever, but have a sense of decency about yourself and others.

At a minimum, please step back and realize that there will be things you do in regards to your children that maybe the rest of society doesn't agree with (hopefully not immoral though, just developmental choices). Do you really want outside agencies having more and more say over what you can and can't do for your children?

Now, go ahead and debunk me with the most outrageous and immoral examples of behavior to prove me wrong. Please, people, just think to yourself what this current 'society knows better than the individual' mindset is going to destroy.

See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit? The doctrine was formulated so that those under 18 could make decisions for themselves, providing they could explain their beliefs clearly.

Okay, but they're not telling us about the millions of times that prayer worked.

monster87: the level of cynicism and vitriolic hate towards people of faith is disgusting.

You confuse hate with pity.

Hmmm. 274 deaths in 35 years? Almost 8 per year! Why, that's almost as big a disaster as the swine flu!

Why does anyone care? During those same 35 years about 3.5 million people died from taking properly prescribed, properly taken pharmaceutical drugs, and twice as many died as the result of stupid doctor tricks in hospitals.

Also unreported is how many kids in these religious families got sick and didn't die.

The real issue is that the controllers can't stand having anyone outside their control. The minute one of these sick kids with hyper-religious parents gets public attention, they move in with a SWAT team, lest anyone else get the idea they are free. The actual fate of the kid is irrelevant.

Galileo's Daughter: You'll have to find me something other than a legal three page brief. All I saw was that NY required them to be 18.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit? The doctrine was formulated so that those under 18 could make decisions for themselves, providing they could explain their beliefs clearly.

F*ck you, I read just fine. I'm just not going to sift through all that to find the one sentence you claim.

I never take the sides of fundie nutjobs, but this argument is silly. I would like to see how many deaths have happened in that same time dealing with malpractice, allergic reactions to meds, or infections caught from operations. I have no idea what the numbers are, but I would bet that they would be close to the same. 274 kids dying from prayer seems pretty low considering how many idiot parents there are out there.

cramtod: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

not sure I get your point... States can't deny people equal protection of the laws. Got it. What's that have to do with the Freedom of Religion?

This is from 2003 but it might help put this in perspective.National child mortality data (new window)
Doesn't seem like religion or lack of it is the leading cause of child deaths unless something really changed since 2003.

Q: What is a mature minor?
A:: A mature minor is a person sixteen years or over and under the age of eighteen "who has demonstrated the ability and capacity to manage his (or her) own affairs and to live wholly or partially independent of his (or her) parents or guardian.

I.E. Emancipated.

274?

So that puts fundamental religion at like #15,879 on the list of things that kill children since 1972?

I thought Fundies were so much more annoying than that.

I mean heck Liberals and Abortion Doctors have killed like 20,000,000 kids since then, not counting twins.

And God bless the US Congress and Supreme Court, who pray before each session.

/morans

God has a plan for us all. By Praying, you admit that you either do not believe in the plan, or think God is wrong in what he has done to your child. By Praying to God or a Saint to change something that is happening to you, you are disrespecting God more than you think an Atheist might be.

Natural Selection in action. Plus, thats 274 less fundies who grow up to have fundies of their own.

Ahh, but how many kids also got better without treatment? A lot more than 274 I'll wager.

/meh

How many kids have died because their parents gave 'em fireworks in that same period? God Bless America.

If the Government steps in and forces medical treatment and the child still dies, does the Government go to jail?

Thud'nBlunder: Hmmm. 274 deaths in 35 years? Almost 8 per year! Why, that's almost as big a disaster as the swine flu!

Why does anyone care? During those same 35 years about 3.5 million people died from taking properly prescribed, properly taken pharmaceutical drugs, and twice as many died as the result of stupid doctor tricks in hospitals.

Also unreported is how many kids in these religious families got sick and didn't die.

The real issue is that the controllers can't stand having anyone outside their control. The minute one of these sick kids with hyper-religious parents gets public attention, they move in with a SWAT team, lest anyone else get the idea they are free. The actual fate of the kid is irrelevant.

Damn you and your reason and logic!

Get the hell out! You have no place here! Now go!

joaquin closet: How many kids have died because their parents gave 'em fireworks in that same period? God Bless America.

Not sure but 0 - 19 yd olds suicide by firearms was 810 in just 2003.

TF2_Pyro: God has a plan for us all. By Praying, you admit that you either do not believe in the plan, or think God is wrong in what he has done to your child. By Praying to God or a Saint to change something that is happening to you, you are disrespecting God more than you think an Atheist might be.

that might work for Calvinists but since no major religion believes in Predestination aside from them gonna have to give you the big old FAIL on that one. I feel bad actually because I know how smug you felt sitting there having thought of that all by yourself.

And every year, 250, 000 people die from medical treatment which they thought would cure them.

What's your point?

Link (new window)

"Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)
Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of
Hygiene and Public Health describes how the US health care system
may contribute to poor health.

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:
12,000 -----unnecessary surgery (8)
7,000 -----medication errors in hospitals (9)
20,000 -----other errors in hospitals (10)
80,000 -----infections in hospitals (10)
106,000 ----non-error, negative effects of drugs (2)
These total to 250,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes!!"

why is it that everyone cares about babies and children, but adults can go fark themselves? babies and children are just a few years away from being shiathead adults themselves. so why get worked up about them dying because their parents make poor decisions. won't they most likely be making their own poor decisions eventually?

/grumpy

kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you become a Senator with a (D) after your name.

joaquin closet: How many kids have died because their parents gave 'em fireworks in that same period? God Bless America.

(551 unintentional fire/burn minus nonfirework) times (30) = (a crapload)?

TheGreatGildersleeve

Thank you.

G A M E O V E R

zabadu: Q: What is a mature minor?
A:: A mature minor is a person sixteen years or over and under the age of eighteen "who has demonstrated the ability and capacity to manage his (or her) own affairs and to live wholly or partially independent of his (or her) parents or guardian.

I.E. Emancipated.

I think that is more emancipatable. ;-)

and millions have died because frkking libs don't believe that killing babies during pregnancy is wrong, so what?

manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

Tell that to all the thalidomide babies and other nightmares wrought by scientists.

TheGreatGildersleeve: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you become a Senator with a (D) after your name.

A (R) if they are boys.

amanogowa: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you are Catholic.

Pure Win.

amanogowa: TheGreatGildersleeve: kronicfeld: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

What if your religion believes that it's okay to f*ck eight year olds?

Then you become a Senator with a (D) after your name.

A (R) if they are boys.

A member of American Federation of Teachers if you meant "f*ck" figuratively.

275 OMG THATS SO MANY AMERICA SUX! 9 a yr! This issue is very pressing!

lriG_eikoH: why is it that everyone cares about babies and children, but adults can go fark themselves? babies and children are just a few years away from being shiathead adults themselves. so why get worked up about them dying because their parents make poor decisions. won't they most likely be making their own poor decisions eventually?

/grumpy

That's where you're wrong! Even the anti-abortionists only care about babies when they are just cells inside a woman. Once they're born, they don't give a rats...well, you know.

archichris: 274?

So that puts fundamental religion at like #15,879 on the list of things that kill children since 1972?

I thought Fundies were so much more annoying than that.

So... letting your child die = annoying?
Good to know.

zabadu: lriG_eikoH: why is it that everyone cares about babies and children, but adults can go fark themselves? babies and children are just a few years away from being shiathead adults themselves. so why get worked up about them dying because their parents make poor decisions. won't they most likely be making their own poor decisions eventually?

/grumpy

That's where you're wrong! Even the anti-abortionists only care about babies when they are just cells inside a woman. Once they're born, they don't give a rats...well, you know.

Republicans only want to force women to have babies because they are misogynistic and they hate babies once they're born because they don't believe in any social welfare programs while democrats will support you for life if you're quick enough as a fetus to avoid the coat hanger and make it out alive.

Very simplistic and... well, it's Fark. Well done.

stewmadness: and millions have died because frkking libs don't believe that killing babies during pregnancy is wrong in my carpet just a minute ago, so what?

We were talking about born living human children.

Nexzus: Not necessarily.

Sarcasm, look it up.

mudpants: stewmadness: and millions have died because frkking libs don't believe that killing babies during pregnancy is wrong in my carpet just a minute ago, so what?

We were talking about born living human children.

umm duh mudpants. Sperm are the same thing as a fetus until the fetus leaves the birth canal.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Personally I don't care one way or the other. I think of it as evolution in action.

ZipSplat: 275 OMG THATS SO MANY AMERICA SUX! 9 a yr! This issue is very pressing!

Truth. Personally speaking, it's not nearly enough.

CapitolG: logruszed: Rabbinic councils also generally agree that the use of "G_d" as a substitute is pretty farking pointless and only do it out of fear of offending others

I say Error on the side of caution, if somebody's faith is so consuming that they see the world "God" as holding the same power As the Hebrew name, what is the harm?


logruszed: the whole "G_d" thing has no real tradition behind it and only serves as an artificial divide between people

But they want that divide, in the same way the Phelps clan wants to be separated from the rest of the Christen community... I get it is not healthy, but to each his own.

The big reason I see no issue in it? I would want others to respect my believes (No matter how crazy they seem).... So I do the same.

In theory it does no harm, in practice it allows for the creation of a belief in an offense where no actual offense was intended or taken place.

It also circumvents intent on the part of the projecting party and intellectual capacity for reason on the part of the recipient.

If there is any single tenant of my ancestry which I hold sacrosanct, it is not the God who failed to protect us nor to give Abraham his many kingdoms, his "chosen people", from harm it is the idea of debate of all aspects of our faith. Judaism is under attack from within in a more insidious manner than the more obvious attacks from without, through subverting our own drive to discern and question.

And as an active member of the world community and a user of language I object on principle to any system that advocates placating the irrational beliefs of any group, even some that of my own.

Hell, that is precisely what this thread is about.

And I encourage you to read this article: Euphemism Treadmill (new window)

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Assuming you are not just trolling, the problem is selective interpretation of religious beliefs. Nowhere in the bible, for example, does it actually say to forgo medicine.

It does say to stone people to death for any number of reasons, yet we would oppose religious types doing that, I assume. It even advocates the killing of children.

However, I am on the fence about this, because the kids would probably grow up to be as retarded as their parents, burdening the world with more stupid.

iaazathot: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Assuming you are not just trolling, the problem is selective interpretation of religious beliefs. Nowhere in the bible, for example, does it actually say to forgo medicine.

It does say to stone people to death for any number of reasons, yet we would oppose religious types doing that, I assume. It even advocates the killing of children.

However, I am on the fence about this, because the kids would probably grow up to be as retarded as their parents, burdening the world with more stupid.

that's kind of the point of this whole thread though. Where does the freedom of religion end and the rights of children begin ( or rights of anyone for that matter ).

Why does a religion have to be officially recognized by the government to practice? The obvious answer is to prevent people from starting a religion where drugs are part of the ritual. Rastafarians had to be officially recognized along with AI tribes in the SW who use peyote. However, it is still a bit concerning that we can worship how we please, just as long as the government approves.

logruszed: And as an active member of the world community and a user of language I object on principle to any system that advocates placating the irrational beliefs of any group, even some that of my own.

I may just be a wishy washy world citizen, and maybe a world class jerkwad. I feel it is OK for folks to place irrational beliefs on others.... I just do not expect the Others to take it serious, but it is not too hard to entertain their beliefs(although I get I may be causing friction in the long run.)

Thanks for the Euphemism Treadmill link.

HEY SUBBY! Why don't you report how many children were killed by MEDICAL ERROR in the past 30 years because I guarantee you it is higher 274.


NOT that I am in favor of prayer over medicine but Subby is acting pretty high and mighty with his 'scare headline.

Just to play Jesus' Advocate here for a second, how many children were saved by prayer over medicine?

Um, just a suggestion but why can't you do both prayer and medicine. Can't see how they could be mutually exclusive. Use prayer to call on God to give the physician the smarts and tools to save your child. Seems like a pretty good tag team to me.

Javelin22: Natural Selection in action. Plus, thats 274 less fundies who grow up to have fundies of their own.

This

mfaby [TotalFark] 2009-07-02 05:46:31 PM
"HEY SUBBY! Why don't you report how many children were killed by MEDICAL ERROR in the past 30 years because I guarantee you it is higher 274."

That's really not the point. According the Pro-Life definition of 'murder' these children were murdered by their parents the law did nothing to stop them.

skullkrusher: Sperm are the same thing as a fetus until the fetus leaves the birth canal.

huh?

Claude Ballse: Just to play Jesus' Advocate here for a second, how many children were saved by prayer over medicine?

0, why do you ask?

mudpants: skullkrusher: Sperm are the same thing as a fetus until the fetus leaves the birth canal.

huh?

Ignore him. One of these days he will drown in the shower and free us from his presence on Fark.

late to the party as usual.
still, i hate to see this kind of stuff go on because of how stupid it is. I mean why does the mother that spanks her child in public get child protective services called to her house and the overly religious mother that refuses to take care of her child and let whatever deity she prays to take care of her dying offspring get off so easy? My point in this is why should the government care? Later on the child taken into custody is more than likely to become a failure in life that depends on welfare because he or she got taken from his or her biological family by the state. Shouldnt it be up to the parents to take care of their offspring? I understand if Cleetus is an unfit parent but why must child services become involved in that and let Mother Mary keep her half dead kid? I understand religious tolerance, sure the kid is in trouble but the kid is the parents responsibility the state should be worried that the kid is dying of the flu rather than the methods employed by parents to rear their children into place and raise them to be hardworking members of soceity.

/i never got spanked
//because i learned after the first time
///two weeks into 18 years old and i already have a job
////because i can say Yes Maam and Yes Sir.
Teach kids respect, teach them discipline, beat them like bobby beat whitney if needed, or risk having little snowflakes that dont know what respect is.

amanogowa:


May you have an interesting life.
And if you want some perspective on the original topic instead of whatever that just was
look HERE (new window)

So for every thousand people that die due to iatrogenic causes (doctors' mistakes), one child dies because their parents didn't want to take that risk.

Where's the problem?

Statistically insignificant.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Lefties only forget the first part of the Freedom of Religion clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Righties disregard the whole thing.

"... or free exercise thereof".

What if the kid wants tangible medical aid, but the parents are adamant on asking an invisible sky wizard? That would be violation of the second portion.

not sure I get your point... States can't deny people equal protection of the laws. Got it. What's that have to do with the Freedom of Religion?

Parents are claiming First Amendment rights to withhold medical attention from their children according to their faith. However, the State has an obligation under the Fourteenth Amendment to protect these children and prosecute the parents should they be responsible for any harm to their children.

Arrg... got it backwards. Lefties disregard the second part, while righties the whole thing.

MadCat221: Arrg... got it backwards. Lefties disregard the second part, while righties the whole thing.

Never seen a 'leftie' say you cannot practice any religion you want. Mostly they don't want to be forced to join in or pay for it.

And how many kids were killed by abortion?

How many kids die due to their parent's belief in herbal medicines, or their Pagan beliefs (witch doctors for example)?

Yogimus: And how many kids were killed by abortion?

0, why do you ask?

Yogimus: And how many kids were killed by abortion?

Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

Funny, I'm a Christian, and that definitely makes no sense....

AtomicBurrito: I mean why does the mother that spanks her child in public get child protective services called to her house and the overly religious mother that refuses to take care of her child and let whatever deity she prays to take care of her dying offspring get off so easy?

Do you know any mothers who spanked their children in public and had CPS called on them as a result? Because I sure as shiat have never heard of such a thing.

On the other side - do you know any parents who get in trouble/reported to CPS for denying their children medical treatment? You shouldn't have to think too hard to recall the mother/fat-kid debacle of a few weeks ago. In fact, there are many instances of parents facing criminal charges for this sort of stuff.

In short, I don't think you're paying close enough attention to be taken seriously making such statements. Sounds great as part of a ranty whine, but there is very limited basis in reality for your conundrum.

And I wonder how many have been killed by medical mishaps and misdiagnosis? See I can play that game, too.

I Said: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

There are limits. Some churches have had legal issues because the parishioners are told to beat their children, even with the pastor/priest etc getting involved in the beatings. Is that ok bc it's a part of their religious practice?

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic

this. I am sure more have been killed by vaccines or something good.

MadCat221: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

Some Lefties only forget the first second part of the Freedom of Religion clause and concentrate on: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Righties disregard the whole thing. the first part, and concentrate on:

"... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

FTFY.

/even quoted the First Amendment wrong, for shame!
//watches again from the center.

As long as you don't abort it as a fetus, feel free to abuse or neglect the resulting child in the name of religion.

BobtheFascist: So?

came here to say BFD! 7 a year? not that compelling.

zabadu: Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

Would you extend the "cells are not babies" stuff to a partial birth abortion? How about one scheduled for just a week before the mother's due date? Still just a wad of cells?

Let's get real here folks - abortion is killing a human life. Arguing cells vs humans makes you sound like an idiot. Let's move beyond this into the more important part... Regardless of the fact that abortion ends a human life, women have, and should continue to have, the right to affect whether that life is ever fully brought to fruition. It is, after all, their body and largely their creation.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: zabadu: Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

Would you extend the "cells are not babies" stuff to a partial birth abortion? How about one scheduled for just a week before the mother's due date? Still just a wad of cells?

Let's get real here folks - abortion is killing a human life. Arguing cells vs humans makes you sound like an idiot. Let's move beyond this into the more important part... Regardless of the fact that abortion ends a human life, women have, and should continue to have, the right to affect whether that life is ever fully brought to fruition. It is, after all, their body and largely their creation.

Viability.

zabadu: Viability.

If you have a point or retort, feel free to be verbose. Are you saying that fertilized embryos are not viable? Huh?

Mr Rusty Shackleford: zabadu: Viability.

If you have a point or retort, feel free to be verbose. Are you saying that fertilized embryos are not viable? Huh?

Not all of them -- and even those that eventually become viable, only do so after a period of time. There is no way you can be arguing a non-viable fetus is a human life. It might be a potential human life, but lots of things are potential, and never come to fruition.

zabadu: Yogimus: And how many kids were killed by abortion?

Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

What about the ones that George Tiller aborted in the third trimester that could have been viable outside the womb?

kleppe: zabadu: Yogimus: And how many kids were killed by abortion?

Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

What about the ones that George Tiller aborted in the third trimester that could have been viable outside the womb?

What about George Tiller? Pretty sure he was viable.

dung_beetle: And I wonder how many have been killed by medical mishaps and misdiagnosis?

but the mishaps and misdiagnosis have legal reputations, just as a parent who misdiagnosis (they think the medicine is payer)A child is held accountable.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: zabadu: Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

Would you extend the "cells are not babies" stuff to a partial birth abortion? How about one scheduled for just a week before the mother's due date? Still just a wad of cells?

Let's get real here folks - abortion is killing a human life. Arguing cells vs humans makes you sound like an idiot. Let's move beyond this into the more important part... Regardless of the fact that abortion ends a human life, women have, and should continue to have, the right to affect whether that life is ever fully brought to fruition. It is, after all, their body and largely their creation.



I will say this is a very good point, and I agree with this. I don't let my religious beliefs cloud the choice women must face in terms of abortion. As wrong as I think it is, I think women should have a choice in ending the life before it comes out (Course, I'd also wish instead of protests in front of abortion clinics, I'd love to see single men standing out front with signs saying "Pick me! I'd love your kids as my own!").

/are we not a complex series of cells derived from a simple fertilization of an egg by a sperm?

I figured the number would have been MUCH higher.

amanogowa: Not all of them -- and even those that eventually become viable, only do so after a period of time. There is no way you can be arguing a non-viable fetus is a human life. It might be a potential human life, but lots of things are potential, and never come to fruition.

You're missing something here. Women pursue abortion to terminate a pregnancy. A pregnancy requires a viable, growing embryo. Why would anyone get an abortion without an actual pregnancy at hand?

The fact that you may miscarry a healthy, viable embryo is irrelevant to the abortion and it's intentions, considering it is selected after an apparently viable pregnancy is already occurring.

Your body terminates the non viable ones on it's own, with very few exceptions.

People_are_Idiots: pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

Funny, I'm a Christian, and that definitely makes no sense....

PWHP_67 was trying to explain how our Founding Fathers weren't really Christian moralists as they are currently and mistakenly believed to have been. But lies repeated over and over again often become truths and PWHP_67 hopes that someday the children in our schools will be taught that our Founding Fathers were actually deists, atheists, and agnostics and believed religion had no place in the formation of America's new government. Especially after witnessing the religious persecutions in Europe during the 17th and early 18th centuries. However, they did recognize freedom to practice whichever religion you chose as a very important right.

Hope this helps clear up what he meant.

Great, now post the stats for the number of child deaths from getting the wrong medication from their doctor and allergic reactions.
Then post the number of kids that have died this year from just getting the flu vaccine.
I'd guess about 30,000 for this year alone.
Prayer has a much better record than the medical community when it comes to not killing children.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: amanogowa: Not all of them -- and even those that eventually become viable, only do so after a period of time. There is no way you can be arguing a non-viable fetus is a human life. It might be a potential human life, but lots of things are potential, and never come to fruition.

You're missing something here. Women pursue abortion to terminate a pregnancy. A pregnancy requires a viable, growing embryo. Why would anyone get an abortion without an actual pregnancy at hand?

The fact that you may miscarry a healthy, viable embryo is irrelevant to the abortion and it's intentions, considering it is selected after an apparently viable pregnancy is already occurring.

Your body terminates the non viable ones on it's own, with very few exceptions.

Right, I am not missing that.

Saying it is a viable human is different than a viable embryo. An embryo that cannot live without the mother is not a human any more than my hand is -- and it is fully the mother's choice to continue it or not.

People_are_Idiots: I will say this is a very good point, and I agree with this. I don't let my religious beliefs cloud the choice women must face in terms of abortion. As wrong as I think it is, I think women should have a choice in ending the life before it comes out (Course, I'd also wish instead of protests in front of abortion clinics, I'd love to see single men standing out front with signs saying "Pick me! I'd love your kids as my own!").

/are we not a complex series of cells derived from a simple fertilization of an egg by a sperm?

The world needs more religious people with opinions like your own.

zabadu: Mr Rusty Shackleford: zabadu: Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

Would you extend the "cells are not babies" stuff to a partial birth abortion? How about one scheduled for just a week before the mother's due date? Still just a wad of cells?

Let's get real here folks - abortion is killing a human life. Arguing cells vs humans makes you sound like an idiot. Let's move beyond this into the more important part... Regardless of the fact that abortion ends a human life, women have, and should continue to have, the right to affect whether that life is ever fully brought to fruition. It is, after all, their body and largely their creation.

Viability.

So, in this capacity you're using "viability" as "able to survive"?

I bet you can see where I'll take this.

pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

You can always help if you stop spreading lies yourself. Find a book while there is still time.

Hoopido: Great, now post the stats for the number of child deaths from getting the wrong medication from their doctor and allergic reactions.
Then post the number of kids that have died this year from just getting the flu vaccine.
I'd guess about 30,000 for this year alone.
Prayer has a much better record than the medical community when it comes to not killing children.

Not really. The medical community is still better at saving life than random chance -- that is the whole point of the medical community. If it wasn't, why would we be funding it?

Yay, this proves that even as we move toward a world with enough food, shelter, and access to medical care for everyone, evolution will still work. The stupid need to be weeded out somehow.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: amanogowa: Not all of them -- and even those that eventually become viable, only do so after a period of time. There is no way you can be arguing a non-viable fetus is a human life. It might be a potential human life, but lots of things are potential, and never come to fruition.

You're missing something here. Women pursue abortion to terminate a pregnancy. A pregnancy requires a viable, growing embryo. Why would anyone get an abortion without an actual pregnancy at hand?

The fact that you may miscarry a healthy, viable embryo is irrelevant to the abortion and it's intentions, considering it is selected after an apparently viable pregnancy is already occurring.

Your body terminates the non viable ones on it's own, with very few exceptions.

Holla' back if you ever get a tumor and let me know if you get it removed before or after it has metastasized. No point in having it removed beforehand, right?

GAT_00: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

My religion says I get to shoot self-righteous asshats and that if I do, God is going to give me a medal. You're my next medal. Should I be prosecuted? By your logic, then no, I should not. Win/win, right?

Sorry, but being an asshole isn't a religion.

NoLiving: So in 35 from religious persecution. Sounds like a fair exchange to me.

So you believe in human sacrifice?

Hoopido: GAT_00: SpeshilEdjukashin:

Sorry, but being an asshole isn't a religion.

Dammut ! Why not ? I need a tax deduction. It's a political party isn't it?

bride_of_adam_cole: I Said: SpeshilEdjukashin:

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic


THIS. Only 274. That's a low number for a time span of over 30 years.

It's impossibly low, it basically proves that prayer does work.

amanogowa: Saying it is a viable human is different than a viable embryo. An embryo that cannot live without the mother is not a human any more than my hand is -- and it is fully the mother's choice to continue it or not

Saying it can't live without the mother is a misnomer. If you hadn't gone out of your way to kill it, it almost certainly would've lived. This is not a egg that rolls out of a hen coop into the fox's jaws. We are mammals, remember? Our young grow inside of us until they are ready to live externally.

Either way, it was established long ago that embryos could live outside of the mother give the proper conditions. Again, this is a moot point and you missed the important part (which you say you got) - if you're getting an abortion, you already know your viable embryo has become a viable human. This is, after all, the basis upon which you make your decision to abort in the first place.

Your body is a closed system in this regard - if it's not rejected, it will stay inside of you. Saying it's not viable outside therefore it's not a human is absurd when the activity that brought it outside is the abortion itself.

Hoopido: bride_of_adam_cole: I Said: SpeshilEdjukashin:

/honestly, 274 isn't THAT many
//I know, I know, "one is too many", but 274 over that stretch of time is hardly some epidemic


THIS. Only 274. That's a low number for a time span of over 30 years.

It's impossibly low, it basically proves that prayer does work.

Or that the system works and these people are caught and corrected before they can do too much damage...

Or that evolution works and these folks are breeding themselves out of the gene pool.

and tens of thousands of kids died who were taken to Dr's who blew off their symptoms. Or they developed a staff infection in the hospital...or they removed their spleen and killed them when they left a shopvac in the hole...

Then of course there were a couple hundred kids roasted to death in minivans of 'progressive' professionals who left them strapped in the car seat and forgot them in 108 degree Dallas weather....


So, I'm not even religous, but the subby or the greenlight to make fun of faith was assinine.

To the subby, and Fark mods....a great big cockpunch from the fist of GOD!

logruszed: Holla' back if you ever get a tumor and let me know if you get it removed before or after it has metastasized. No point in having it removed beforehand, right?

Please paint the correlation between my statements and your retort. I'm sorry but it is not clear at all.

If I get a tumor, I intend to have it removed. So, what now?

Mr Rusty Shackleford: amanogowa: Saying it is a viable human is different than a viable embryo. An embryo that cannot live without the mother is not a human any more than my hand is -- and it is fully the mother's choice to continue it or not

Saying it can't live without the mother is a misnomer. If you hadn't gone out of your way to kill it, it almost certainly would've lived. This is not a egg that rolls out of a hen coop into the fox's jaws. We are mammals, remember? Our young grow inside of us until they are ready to live externally.

Either way, it was established long ago that embryos could live outside of the mother give the proper conditions. Again, this is a moot point and you missed the important part (which you say you got) - if you're getting an abortion, you already know your viable embryo has become a viable human. This is, after all, the basis upon which you make your decision to abort in the first place.

Your body is a closed system in this regard - if it's not rejected, it will stay inside of you. Saying it's not viable outside therefore it's not a human is absurd when the activity that brought it outside is the abortion itself.

If it was a viable human, why not just move it to someplace is is less inconvenient, or is actually wanted?

If a human does not desire to keep a portion of their body that they feel, and can be medically verified, to be detrimental to them, they have the right to remove it.

Until the fetus can live on it's own, it is no different than a tumor, or any other unwanted growth.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: logruszed: Holla' back if you ever get a tumor and let me know if you get it removed before or after it has metastasized. No point in having it removed beforehand, right?

Please paint the correlation between my statements and your retort. I'm sorry but it is not clear at all.

If I get a tumor, I intend to have it removed. So, what now?

So you feel it is OK for you to remove an unwanted collection of cells unable to live on their own? Why is it different just because the other person is female?

EsteeFlwrPot: She's getting a ton of money for making kids sick and taking advantage of American stupidity.

Wake me when she reaches Al Gore status.

schattenteufel: dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?


ZERO

And how many has modern medicine killed in that time? 10, 20 million?

BobtheFascist: So?

this

Hoopido: schattenteufel: dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?


ZERO

And how many has modern medicine killed in that time? 10, 20 million?

And how many has modern medicine saved?

You seem to like focusing on how many it hurt, ignoring the fact that medicine is a long shot better than random chance, no matter how you cut it.

amanogowa: If it was a viable human, why not just move it to someplace is is less inconvenient, or is actually wanted?

If a human does not desire to keep a portion of their body that they feel, and can be medically verified, to be detrimental to them, they have the right to remove it.

Until the fetus can live on it's own, it is no different than a tumor, or any other unwanted growth.

Why not move it? For the same reason that I don't remove the engine from my car when I drive it to the store - that is where it is intended to go by design. This has nothing to do with the "viability" of anything. Your brain won't work if I take it out and throw it in the bay... is it non-viable?

We're in agreement that abortion should always remain legal, I'm also in favor of partial birth abortion in all honesty. I do believe that arguments like your own discredit and do disservice to the pro-choice movement by making statements that seem absurdly stupid:

"Until the fetus can live on it's own, it is no different than a tumor, or any other unwanted growth."

Call it what you will, it's ending a human life, thus killing. That is the point. Your wants and desires with regard to what is inside of you do not alter this simple fact.

Hoopido: schattenteufel: dognose4: How many has God healed in that time period?


ZERO

And how many has modern medicine killed in that time? 10, 20 million?

How many has your god killed in that time, for that matter?

A quick google says he kills 2,426,264/year in the US alone.

We can go on, if you like.

amanogowa: So you feel it is OK for you to remove an unwanted collection of cells unable to live on their own? Why is it different just because the other person is female?

The fact that you continue to compare cancer/tumors to the precursors of human life is telling.

Either way, yes, I feel it is okay. I also feel it is okay for a woman to kill the human growing/developing inside of you. You did read my posts, right?

Mr Rusty Shackleford: amanogowa: If it was a viable human, why not just move it to someplace is is less inconvenient, or is actually wanted?

If a human does not desire to keep a portion of their body that they feel, and can be medically verified, to be detrimental to them, they have the right to remove it.

Until the fetus can live on it's own, it is no different than a tumor, or any other unwanted growth.

Why not move it? For the same reason that I don't remove the engine from my car when I drive it to the store - that is where it is intended to go by design. This has nothing to do with the "viability" of anything. Your brain won't work if I take it out and throw it in the bay... is it non-viable?

We're in agreement that abortion should always remain legal, I'm also in favor of partial birth abortion in all honesty. I do believe that arguments like your own discredit and do disservice to the pro-choice movement by making statements that seem absurdly stupid:

"Until the fetus can live on it's own, it is no different than a tumor, or any other unwanted growth."

Call it what you will, it's ending a human life, thus killing. That is the point. Your wants and desires with regard to what is inside of you do not alter this simple fact.

If it is a human life, it is a live. I never made the claim that my brain has it's own human life -- in fact, removing it would end a human life -- mine, so I fail to see how that comparison is supposed to work.

If you had a problem with your engine that was a detriment to your car as a whole, why not get it removed? Millions have broken engine parts removed each year -- and they don't transfer the title to the dump when they toss out the broken head gasket, either.

Mr Rusty Shackleford: zabadu: Again, zero. Cells are not babies.

PS: You might want to read a thread before posting. We've covered this.

Would you extend the "cells are not babies" stuff to a partial birth abortion? How about one scheduled for just a week before the mother's due date? Still just a wad of cells?

Let's get real here folks - abortion is killing a human life. Arguing cells vs humans makes you sound like an idiot. Let's move beyond this into the more important part... Regardless of the fact that abortion ends a human life, women have, and should continue to have, the right to affect whether that life is ever fully brought to fruition. It is, after all, their body and largely their creation.

Are you saying that an 8-cell blastocyst is the same as a full term baby? Granted that the blastocyst may become more complex over time however, 8 or 16 or 32 cells is not a crying, pooping, cooing baby. A baby may survive long enough to become an adult, but most us see the two as different. All humans eventually die, but we don't equate live humans with dead ones.

As for your horror over partial birth abortion, I am only aware of this being performed when circumstances of the pregnancy become dire. Sometimes things go terribly wrong during pregnancy. If you want to be outraged, blame god, not the procedure needed to save the mother.

amanogowa: If it is a human life, it is a live. I never made the claim that my brain has it's own human life -- in fact, removing it would end a human life -- mine, so I fail to see how that comparison is supposed to work.

Hmm, if it's not a human life, and not alive, remind me... why would you get an abortion?

(It's that same basic point again....)

Mr Rusty Shackleford: amanogowa: So you feel it is OK for you to remove an unwanted collection of cells unable to live on their own? Why is it different just because the other person is female?

The fact that you continue to compare cancer/tumors to the precursors of human life is telling.

Either way, yes, I feel it is okay. I also feel it is okay for a woman to kill the human growing/developing inside of you. You did read my posts, right?

I have read your posts -- and see you pretending to be supporting pro-choice, but then going around and doing damage in your 'defense'.

For the life of me the term for that escapes me.

/It's like saying I am pro affirmative action because those lazy darkies need assistance to compete with all us hard workers. Without AA them damn monkeys would never get an education and can never compete on equal footing.
//except in sports.

Sherman has been accused of being a cult

Typo?

RosettaStone: Are you saying that an 8-cell blastocyst is the same as a full term baby? Granted that the blastocyst may become more complex over time however, 8 or 16 or 32 cells is not a crying, pooping, cooing baby. A baby may survive long enough to become an adult, but most us see the two as different. All humans eventually die, but we don't equate live humans with dead ones.

As for your horror over partial birth abortion, I am only aware of this being performed when circumstances of the pregnancy become dire. Sometimes things go terribly wrong during pregnancy. If you want to be outraged, blame god, not the procedure needed to save the mother.

Listen, how about you go back and apply some reading comprehension to my posts. It will help you make more informed retorts.

First, I'm not against partial birth abortion. Why should I be? It's not my body.

Second, no (see? I never said anything remotely like that), and you don't get an abortion over an 8 or 32 cell blastocyst either. You get an abortion after you've determined you've got a human growing inside of you that you'd rather be dead than alive.

amanogowa:
I never made the claim that my brain has it's own human life -- in fact, removing it would end a human life -- mine.

. Well, we are all waiting ! Patiently.

ZipSplat: 275 OMG THATS SO MANY AMERICA SUX! 9 a yr! This issue is very pressing!

Do doubt. I killed more kids than that on the way to work this morning.

amanogowa: I have read your posts -- and see you pretending to be supporting pro-choice, but then going around and doing damage in your 'defense'.

For the life of me the term for that escapes me.

What have I stated that constitutes "prentending" to support pro choice?

This is where you are just plain wrong. Pro-choice != pro euphemistic bullshiat. It's ending a human life. It is the point of abortion today, it was the point of abortion 1000 years ago.

My initial post is quite clear - there is only one real use case for abortion and we are all aware of what it is. I think you're so used to arguing the subtle differences of what is and is not human life in order to justify abortion, that you don't bother to reflect on the more simple obvious facts (that point again...).

There are more important things then a child's life.

lordargent: My bloodline is descended from cannibals.

Would you care to participate in one of our religious rites? You would be the guest entrée of honor.

FTFY

If the child of a religious nut dies because of denying medical care, execute the parents. It'll certainly keep the from breeding.

zabadu: So how do they pray to God if they can't say his name out loud?

I think they hum it.

No links to The God that Failed? (new window)

Song was written about James Hetfield's (brother?) who died because his parents didn't believe in any medicine but prayer.

Atheists kill more children through drunk driving than this.

rjw25: Statistically insignificant.

People_are_Idiots: I will say this is a very good point, and I agree with this. I don't let my religious beliefs cloud the choice women must face in terms of abortion. As wrong as I think it is, I think women should have a choice in ending the life before it comes out (Course, I'd also wish instead of protests in front of abortion clinics, I'd love to see single men standing out front with signs saying "Pick me! I'd love your kids as my own!").

/are we not a complex series of cells derived from a simple fertilization of an egg by a sperm?

THIS. (And I'm not even religious.)

Since 1975, millions of children have died in this country because their parents thought medicine, not prayer, would cure them. God bless America

submitter: Since 1975, 274 children have died in this country because their parents thought prayer, not medicine, would cure them. God bless America

Bah! Amateurs ^{(^)}

manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

As opposed to just ripping the baby into pieces on it's way out, leaving it to die in a bin, or sucking out it's brain with a vacuum.

Yeah, Atheist treatment of children is WAAAAAAAAAY superior.

Mongo cut wood: Atheists kill more children through drunk driving than this.

To be fair alot of the people who drive drunk are likey christians. however, alot a small percentage of the high numbers would be an atheist. So yes more then 274 "people" have been killed by drunk driver in the last 30 years.

/claims to be a Christian or something like that.

And how many children dead from the mother paying 200 dollars to get a vacuum service? Millions? Sorry but the leftist war on children far far trumps anything prayer has done.

hetheeme: manimal2878: It's a shame if you belive in superstitious nonsense that you can get away with child abuse and neglect depending on what nonsense you believe in still.

As opposed to just ripping the baby into pieces on it's way out, leaving it to die in a bin, or sucking out it's brain with a vacuum.

Yeah, Atheist treatment of children is WAAAAAAAAAY superior.


abiigdog: And how many children dead from the mother paying 200 dollars to get a vacuum service? Millions? Sorry but the leftist war on children far far trumps anything prayer has done.


Trolls, retarded, or both? We'll let you decide!

From the CDC:

The percentage distribution of abortions by known weeks of gestation has shifted slightly since the late 1970s. From 1992 (when detailed data on early abortions were first available) through 2002, data have indicated steady increases in procedures performed at (35,36). Abortions performed early in pregnancy are associated with lower risks for mortality and morbidity (37,38). The proportions of abortions performed later in pregnancy (>13 weeks) have varied minimally since 1992. The gestational age at which an abortion is obtained can be influenced by multiple factors in addition to those for which surveillance data are available (i.e., age, race, and ethnicity). These additional factors include level of education, availability and accessibility of abortion services, timing of confirmation of pregnancy, timing of personal decision-making, timing of prenatal diagnosis, level of fear of discovery of pregnancy, and denial of pregnancy (39--41).

To be fair, those 274 only died cause I prayed real hard that they would. You have any idea how much time it takes to outpray superreligious types?

swangoatman: Farkazoid: Add that total to the Thousands of Children of Jehovah's Witness parents who have died for not allowing Blood Transfusions, and you begin to realize what a bad problem this really is.

I am so thankful to be out of the CULT known as Jehovah's Witnesses. They have taken away the lives of so many innocent children.

You troll!!! you lie!!!! you have shiat on your face for just hitting google alert " my old religion".

WTF??? Can you please explain what you are talking about? Your reply to me is a little confusing...

Thanks in advance.

Howabout you prayer people figure out why those prayers don't magically stop unwanted pregnancies or make the power fail in a clinic?

logruszed: Howabout you prayer people figure out why those prayers don't magically stop unwanted pregnancies or make the power fail in a clinic?

This. If prayer really worked, why hasn't abortion been stopped?

PenguinTheRed: Wow, a whopping 274 in 34 years, huh? Meanwhile, an estimated 225,000 people die EVERY YEAR from iatrogenic causes (when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness)

Think about where medical science would be in the absence of religious influence.

Didn't read the whole thread, so please forgive if this has been discussed but...

274 kids died because their parents "denied them proper care" based on religious grounds? Sad as that is, 274 deaths is NOTHING compared to the millions killed by the drug and medical industries over the same time.

Example: A recent study (pops) revealed that proton pump inhibitors (stomach acid blockers like Aciphex, Nexium, Prevacid, Prilosec, and Protonix - you've seen the TV ads) KILL over 33,000 Americans EVERY YEAR by increasing chances for acquiring pneumonia while patients are hospitalized.

Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (aspirin, Tylenol, Advil, Nexium, and the like) kill thousands more EVERY YEAR, mostly from internal hemorrhage and liver failure.

Here's a quote from a publication of the National Institutes of Health (US Government) published in 2008, and titled:

Realizing the Potential of Pharmacogenomics:
Opportunities and Challenges
Report of the
Secretary's Advisory Committee on Genetics, Health, and Society (pops)

One study found that approximately 2.2 million people per year in the United States experienced an ADR [Adverse Drug Reaction] during a hospital stay or were admitted to the hospital for an ADR. This study also reported that ADRs account for approximately 106,000 deaths per year, which would rank ADRs between the fourth and sixth leading causes of death in the United States, depending on whether liberal or conservative estimates are used.41 The economic burden associated with drug-related morbidity and mortality is substantial, with annual costs estimated earlier this decade at more than $177 billion.

[Note: The above was published BEFORE the release of the study estimating 33,000 deaths from proton pump inhibitors]

"Safe and effective" my ass. These LEGAL AND APPROVED drugs kill EIGHT TIMES as many people every year as ALL illicit drug use COMBINED.

War on Drugs, anyone?

I'm no religious person (cured - no thanks to medicine) but given the above figures, I'd say "prayer" would have a tough time competing with the grim reaper that is the pharmaceutical industry.

In fact, it almost looks as though the Rx industry has become a "religion" of its own, with well over 200 million Americans entrusting it with their BLIND FAITH, believing that they will be healed!

This whole thing sounds like a "War of the Gods" to me.

SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

You are misinformed. This country was not founded on religion. Go ahead, study your history. Religion is not a 'right'. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion. The Constitution does not give anyone rights, it simply limits what the government may or may not do.

Pruritic Perineum: SpeshilEdjukashin: See, there's this little thing called freedom of religion... It's a shame that activist judges don't believe in it anymore, because it is one of the main ideals that our country was founded on, and supposedly one of our "rights."

You are misinformed. This country was not founded on religion. Go ahead, study your history. Religion is not a 'right'. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion. The Constitution does not give anyone rights, it simply limits what the government may or may not do.

"...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Wow. Talk about misinformed.

When prayer didn't bring back my hair, I figured it wouldn't be able to cure cancer.

Squidgilum: "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Wow. Talk about misinformed.

Yeah, well, my religion requires that I rape at least one baby a week, or face the fires of Hell. Why do I not get to freely exercise my religion?

Man On Pink Corner: Squidgilum: "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Wow. Talk about misinformed.

Yeah, well, my religion requires that I rape at least one baby a week, or face the fires of Hell. Why do I not get to freely exercise my religion?

That's been covered, Scarecrow.

/afraid of fire, are we?

onebadgungan: That's been covered, Scarecrow.

Really? Save me the trouble, what was the outcome?

274 in 34 years...

And how many died from the chemo, surgery, meds, hospital infections, ect?
How many kids are suffering through chemo or recovering from surgery RIGHT NOW only to buy a couple extra months?

Man On Pink Corner: Squidgilum: "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Wow. Talk about misinformed.

Yeah, well, my religion requires that I rape at least one baby a week, or face the fires of Hell. Why do I not get to freely exercise my religion?

Obviously, we don't allow for illegal behavior. Or, rather, we shouldn't. My point is not that prayer over medicine should be allowed, just that it's asinine to put a period after "...make no laws respecting an establishment of religion," when there is more to that sentence.

It's still better than Jenny Mcarthy's body count.

EsteeFlwrPot 2009-07-02 03:37:32 PM
"Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?"

Why, YES!

"Since 1975, 274 children have died..."

Hmm...giving that the number that died due to medical malpractice, prayer seems the safer route.

Armandeus: "Is this the thread where people shiat on religion because some people don't fully understand the concept of faith so that must mean all religious people are insane backwards cavemen that believe in fairy tales and religion should be outlawed?"


I have never on FARK seen anyone claim 'religion should be outlawed.'

Is this the thread where religious people attack atheists for things they didn't even say?

Why yes it is!

Seen quite a few of those threads...

For all of those who continue to state that prayer killed less than medicine, here's where the real comparison is:

(deaths due to malpractice) much less than (deaths due to lack of medical treatment, of which religious denial is a subset)

Also, even if the number of deaths due to religious denial is far less than the deaths from malpractice, this does not in any way prove that prayer has any effect whatsoever.
To prove that, you would need 1500 terminal patients, medicate 500, do nothing to 500, and only pray for 500, and then compare the results.
Right now, we have umpteen millions saved by modern medicine, many more millions (including all of history as well) of people dying without those treatments, and only a relatively few cases where religious parents condemn their children to death by prayer-neglect. Since we are talking about since the 70s, we are not including all who died due to religious superstitions about illness.
Anyway, whatever.

The quote in my previous post is to be attributed to EsteeFlwrPot not Armandeus, don't know what happened there. Was trying to quote the whole thing.

It's OK, Kliffoth, I forgive you. ;-)
//A forgiving atheist! Ultrareligious heads asplode.

sgtbarthel: People_are_Idiots: pwhp_67: See, there's this little thing called "revisionist history" where Christians live in this other reality. In that reality, the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians, probably Catholics, and they created this country for the Pope. That's why they were allowed to own slaves and keep women from voting: It's all in the Bible.

Someday our public school system will be more explicit when teaching history and some of this nonsense will go away...

Funny, I'm a Christian, and that definitely makes no sense....

PWHP_67 was trying to explain how our Founding Fathers weren't really Christian moralists as they are currently and mistakenly believed to have been. But lies repeated over and over again often become truths and PWHP_67 hopes that someday the children in our schools will be taught that our Founding Fathers were actually deists, atheists, and agnostics and believed religion had no place in the formation of America's new government. Especially after witnessing the religious persecutions in Europe during the 17th and early 18th centuries. However, they did recognize freedom to practice whichever religion you chose as a very important right.

Hope this helps clear up what he meant.

Mhmm, but the way he said it implies that the schools teach this. I realize most were considered deists, and others still would have considered heretics by orthodox standards (Thomas Jefferson was considered Episcopal with Deist leanings). I have no problem with atheists, but some (even my aunt unfortunately) think it's their holy duty to "recruit" members (read enforce). It's ok to be different to me, otherwise what's the point of life? Hope though for those who still think all FF were pure-bred Christians, give them a link below.

Reference on religion and founding fathers: Link (new window)

Mr Rusty Shackleford: People_are_Idiots: I will say this is a very good point, and I agree with this. I don't let my religious beliefs cloud the choice women must face in terms of abortion. As wrong as I think it is, I think women should have a choice in ending the life before it comes out (Course, I'd also wish instead of protests in front of abortion clinics, I'd love to see single men standing out front with signs saying "Pick me! I'd love your kids as my own!").

/are we not a complex series of cells derived from a simple fertilization of an egg by a sperm?

The world needs more religious people with opinions like your own.

I feel that a woman who was wrongfully dumped by a guy might not abort if she found a real guy that'd love her and the child to replace him. It'd not get rid of abortion, but it would lessen the necessity of it as a second form of birth control, the woman gets a man she might want, and a single guy would get a love to last a lifetime (hopefully).

[mean streak mode] of course, the money the idiot has to give to raise the kid wouldn't be bad too. [/mean streak mode]