Oh boy... here we go again. Conservatives have used this excuse every time that they have wanted to choke Medicare with a little more with red tape.

The fact is that fraud is no more prevalent (as a ratio of dollars lost from fraud vs dollars paid out) with Medicare than it is with any other private insurance.

But...but...private insurance got what plants crave!

This is from the WSJ, so all facts presented in the article are to be dismissed without consideration or discussion.

It's also time for Two Minutes of Faux News Hate.

This is the same dog that got the CT scan isn't it?

Because the fraud is NEVER due to the companies which are building these networks of honest, reliable and competent medical folks!

Brainsick: But...but...private insurance got what plants crave!

so much win in this^ comment

GoldSpider: This is from the WSJ, so all facts presented in the article are to be dismissed without consideration or discussion.

It's also time for Two Minutes of Faux News Hate.

No one's modeling shiat on Medicare. That's called a strawman. The fact the WSJ is a rag is irrelevant.

My dog happens to be a shrewd businessman.

It's really depressing how lame and hackey the WSK has gotten since Murdoch bought it.

Another day, another fark-headed, sensationalist, hysterical slippery-slope rationalization from Rupert Murdoch's blog about why universal health care being UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to execute in the United States of America, and always will be.

Can't be done here. Only everywhere else. It's true, because it's what you fear!

ENJOY YOUR ECONOMY CRIPPLING HEALTH CARE.

DarnoKonrad: No one's modeling shiat on Medicare. That's called a strawman

you kidding? every health care thread we have here someone brings up the wasted costs of insurance companies for administration and cite medicare's low 6 percent or whatever for admin costs as what we should emulate.

Yeah! The WSJ should know. They've been enthusiastically supporting defrauders like this current crop of hucksters who've been advocating all this economic BS since Reagan fooled "America" with his VooDoo Economics.

Jesus would support universal healthcare.

Argue your way out of that box relig-o-cons.

/free fish and bread too...

Mr_Fabulous: Another day, another fark-headed, sensationalist, hysterical slippery-slope rationalization from Rupert Murdoch's blog about why universal health care being UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to execute in the United States of America, and always will be.

Can't be done here. Only everywhere else. It's true, because it's what you fear!

Believing that we can achieve things is un-american, you goddamned libtard.

spewing: Jesus would support universal healthcare.

and the FSM supports pay-for-service

Brainsick: But...but...private insurance got what plants crave!

Thanks for the lulz

Results 1 - 10 of about 73,500 for medicare fraud convictions.

But don't let those pesky facts bother you.

albo: DarnoKonrad: No one's modeling shiat on Medicare. That's called a strawman

you kidding? every health care thread we have here someone brings up the wasted costs of insurance companies for administration and cite medicare's low 6 percent or whatever for admin costs as what we should emulate.

That's the sole metric when people cite that? My ass.

Just about any health system on the planet has lower overhead than our health market does. Got nothing to do with medicare.

albo: you kidding? every health care thread we have here someone brings up the wasted costs of insurance companies for administration and cite medicare's low 6 percent or whatever for admin costs as what we should emulate.

It is not brought up as a model to emulate, but as facts to refute the constant repetition of the false notion that anything the government administers is less efficient than private industry. Medicare and Medicaid are systems that fill niches, they are not an ideal model for a universal system. Thankfully, since just about every developed nation in the world has universal care there are plenty of models out there to pick and choose elements from, and every single one of those systems has lower administrative costs than our private system.

The right of free universal healthcare will sombeday be given to the citizens of the U.S. If the democrats can't do it now while controlling Washington, the people will do it for them.

spewing: Jesus would support universal healthcare.

Sure about that?

put up or shut up Dem-o-rats

fix Medicare first

then we can consider a Universal plan

until then you FAIL

Mr_Fabulous: Another day, another fark-headed, sensationalist, hysterical slippery-slope rationalization from Rupert Murdoch's blog about why universal health care being UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to execute in the United States of America, and always will be.

Can't be done here. Only everywhere else. It's true, because it's what you fear!

Kill the "why." It doesn't belong in that rant, and it knows it.

albo: spewing: Jesus would support universal healthcare.

and the FSM supports pay-for-service

The FSM, being a parody of invisible sky wizards, supports nothing.

But, he is delicious with pesto.

What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

Thrag: Medicare and Medicaid are systems that fill niches, they are not an ideal model for a universal system.

if there is an ideal model that would save the government money, then why haven't we already adopted it for medicaid and medicare (as well as schip and other programs)?

after all, we have about 90 million people on government health insurance, more than most other countries. why are we sticking with medicare's current, less effective administration system?

Flatulent_Flea: Results 1 - 10 of about 73,500 for medicare fraud convictions.

But don't let those pesky facts bother you.

Results 1 - 10 of about 248,000 for insurance fraud convictions. (0.33 seconds)

But don't let those pesky facts bother you.

spiderpaz: What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

lol wut?

What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

it would still pay doctors and clinics and hospitals for services. so bad people would try to get themselves some of that money by unscrupulous ways.

GoldSpider: spiderpaz: What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

lol wut?

I mean, if health care were universal, and every citizen were entitled to it, why would you try to defraud it?

albo: What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

it would still pay doctors and clinics and hospitals for services. so bad people would try to get themselves some of that money by unscrupulous ways.

Bad people exist so we're not allowed to have a public option.

Solid.

winterwhile: put up or shut up Dem-o-rats

fix Medicare first

then we can consider a Universal plan

until then you FAIL

LOL WUT

spiderpaz: I mean, if health care were universal, and every citizen were entitled to it, why would you try to defraud it?

Just making sure :)

I'm sure there's plenty of elective procedures that a universal system wouldn't pay for. Why not get a boob job or tummy tuck if you can get taxpayers to foot the bill?

winterwhile: put up or shut up Dem-o-rats

fix Medicare first

then we can consider a Universal plan

until then you FAIL

I'll tell you what, how about you fix the private system first. If you fail then we'll try Universal Health insurance.

Mr_Fabulous: Another day, another fark-headed, sensationalist, hysterical slippery-slope rationalization from Rupert Murdoch's blog about why universal health care being UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to execute in the United States of America, and always will be.

Can't be done here. Only everywhere else. It's true, because it's what you fear! plants crave.

We could actually save a ton on healthcare if the fundies would put their money where their mouth is and move to a prayer based healthcare system.

/sorry, feeling trolly this afternoon...

HotWingConspiracy: Bad people exist so we're not allowed to have a public option

wow, you win first prize in the Assembling Tenuous Connections contest.

spiderpaz: GoldSpider: spiderpaz: What purpose would there be in defrauding a free public healthcare system?

lol wut?

I mean, if health care were universal, and every citizen were entitled to it, why would you try to defraud it?

I believe Medicare cuts you a check, under certain circumstances, so you can recoup the cost of treatment or meds. One could file false claims to that effect. You wouldn't fake an illness to get free treatment, you would fake a treatment to get reimbursed for your "cost".

Unscrupulous doctors could also submit claims for treatments they didn't perform or meds they didn't prescribe.

albo: DarnoKonrad: No one's modeling shiat on Medicare. That's called a strawman

you kidding? every health care thread we have here someone brings up the wasted costs of insurance companies for administration and cite medicare's low 6 percent or whatever for admin costs as what we should emulate.

"fiscally responsible" hobby war cheerleader mad about government spending all of a sudden...

GoldSpider: spiderpaz: I mean, if health care were universal, and every citizen were entitled to it, why would you try to defraud it?

Just making sure :)

I'm sure there's plenty of elective procedures that a universal system wouldn't pay for. Why not get a boob job or tummy tuck if you can get taxpayers to foot the bill?

And you think medicare is so easy to defraud that someone could easily manage to get them to pay for a boob job?

spiderpaz: And you think medicare is so easy to defraud that someone could easily manage to get them to pay for a boob job?

Stranger things have happened.

albo: Thrag: Medicare and Medicaid are systems that fill niches, they are not an ideal model for a universal system.

if there is an ideal model that would save the government money, then why haven't we already adopted it for medicaid and medicare (as well as schip and other programs)?

after all, we have about 90 million people on government health insurance, more than most other countries. why are we sticking with medicare's current, less effective administration system?

How about you just read the line you quoted until the meaning becomes clear to you. You are asking a question answered by the very line you chose to quote.

spiderpaz: And you think medicare is so easy to defraud that someone could easily manage to get them to pay for a boob job?

not sure about medicare, but medicaid is so easy to defraud that ever state is required by federal law to have an agency to fight it.
Pa.'s agency (new window)

albo: not sure about medicare, but medicaid is so easy to defraud that ever state is required by federal law to have an agency to fight it.
Pa.'s agency (new window)

The existence of a body to fight fraud is not indicative of the ease of defrauding a system. Every proper system has a body to fight fraud. Insurance companies had departments to fight fraud, does that mean that are somehow ridiculously easy to defraud?

It's like you are saying "crime is really high in this town, evidenced by the existence of a police department".

Thrag: Every proper system has a body to fight fraud. Insurance companies had departments to fight fraud, does that mean that are somehow ridiculously easy to defraud?

you have a point.

which then leads to reading the article to see why medicare is different and more vulnerable.

spiderpaz: GoldSpider: spiderpaz: I mean, if health care were universal, and every citizen were entitled to it, why would you try to defraud it?

Just making sure :)

I'm sure there's plenty of elective procedures that a universal system wouldn't pay for. Why not get a boob job or tummy tuck if you can get taxpayers to foot the bill?

And you think medicare is so easy to defraud that someone could easily manage to get them to pay for a boob job?

So the argument is that many should suffer financial ruination or die due to untreated illness to avoid potentially paying for a fraudulent boob job?

Maybe it's just me, but the idea that the possible fraud would result in another nice set of jugs to ogle seems like kind of a bonus..

TFerWannaBe: Unscrupulous doctors could also submit claims for treatments they didn't perform or meds they didn't prescribe.

That is a real concern. The octogenarians being administered pregnancy tests for example. It wasn't uncommon for this to occur in the 60's and 70's before the HMO/PPO movement came along.

In a government funded system, the incentive is to give care in excess of what is warranted in order to make money/reduce costs. (Even if the government does not reimburse you entirely for services, you will try to find as many ways as possible to get paid.) The only reliable check on this will be auditing (which will naturally increase administrative costs.)

chapman: TFerWannaBe: Unscrupulous doctors could also submit claims for treatments they didn't perform or meds they didn't prescribe.

That is a real concern. The octogenarians being administered pregnancy tests for example. It wasn't uncommon for this to occur in the 60's and 70's before the HMO/PPO movement came along.

In a government funded system, the incentive is to give care in excess of what is warranted in order to make money/reduce costs. (Even if the government does not reimburse you entirely for services, you will try to find as many ways as possible to get paid.) The only reliable check on this will be auditing (which will naturally increase administrative costs.)

Some doctors overtest and overprovide for people with good healthcare. No matter the system people are going to try to game the system. That is hardly a reason to stick with a dying system.

How anti-capitalist of them.

By the way, did you know most big businesses in the US will pay invoices under a certain dollar amount without ever checking if they provided the goods or services for which they're billed?

That's because it costs more money to hunt down fraud than it does just to pay the bill. If the invoice is for $50, and it costs you more than an hour labor to contest it, it's worth paying it without contesting it.

Good, strong, capitalism.