What you guys need are more white muslims.

Right? Maybe not.

printboy: If I were a liberal, I would be free to have sex whenever and with whomever I want

*shakes ACLU card* I want to have sex with Scarlett Johansson right now.

Nope, doesn't work.

PatGund: Considering that the birthers have yet to come up with anything even close to credible evidence.

Hey wait, isn't that just what they are asking for? You are asking them to prove a negative. Try telling the next person who is requiring you to show your birth certificate "hey birther, prove that I don't have a birth certificate!".

zabadu: Yes, investigating a president who organized a break in is equal to investigating a president who provided birth records to people who refuse to believe they are birth records.

Your troll-fu is low.

Nah, these 'birthers' are a bunch of asshats. I was just saying that sometimes the crazy-ass conspiracies are real, that's all.

printboy: I want to be a liberal thread-jacker because everyone knows they hold the moral high ground I'm an attention whore

yada-yada....

Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Can someone unplug printboy and plug him back in again? I think he's crashed.

Bloody William: To date, I've never seen a birther address the statement issued by the Hawaii Department of Health's director regarding the validity of the birth certificate. Ever.

Not to mention...

"Even the Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up."

I guess she's in on it too.

Some people just don't let things like facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

/conservative
//wish these idiots would STFU

Dil Doe: Let all 400,000 people touch and feel it? Put it in a museum? Send it across the country on a whistle stop tour?

No, but when the Death Certificate comes out it would be great to see.

Wasn't Kilauea the volcano in which Xenu disposed of all of the aliens? Obama was 'born' in Hawaii. My god, it's all starting to make sense.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

No it isn't. It is totally unreasonable. Not only does Obama lack the authority to release the document (or if he does, the burden is on you to prove it), but he has no duty to, whatsoever. The document he has released is valid for all legal purposes. The Hawaiian governor and DoH Director have both certified the original's existence.

A white president would not be asked this, period. McCain would not have been asked the provenance of his birth. The sole reason Obama is being subjected to this is because of race. You, sir, are a racist, as are all of those who fan the flames of this preposterous controversy.

House of Tards: furiousxgeorge:

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

OMG! I HAVE TO ADD THIS TO THE OBAMA DEATH LIST!

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

"Computer generated." That's farking priceless. It's like his COLB is Shrek. Clearly Obama's birth certificate is only valid if written on papyrus with a quill.

It's an official state document. It is evidence of his birth in Hawaii. And the reason the "original" document hasn't been released has been explained to you like a billion times before.

Befuddled: Wasn't Kilauea the volcano in which Xenu disposed of all of the aliens? Obama was 'born' in Hawaii. My god, it's all starting to make sense.

Oprah backed Obama.
Oprah had Tom Cruise.

Oh. My. God.

LesserEvil: It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems

It says the city, county, and island of his birth. Unless one wants to say this is false, I don't see the contention to be made.

LesserEvil: produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

I don't believe I have an original birth certificate, and I'm half Obama's age.

SkinnyHead: Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Because he doesn't have to, and he enjoys confounding racists like you.

spleef420: look closer at the document...see where it says "City, Town or location of birth"? See below that where it says "Honolulu"? Where is this "Honolulu"? Hawaii, correct? DOB 1961...well after Hawaii became a state.

citizen.

What is your point? I'm simply saying that this isn't an original birth certificate. It's simply a certification that there is a record, in Hawaii's database. Nirthers might believe (and nothing can dispute this) that somebody put the information in after the fact.

The certificate was printed last year, not in 1961.

Anything in that record is questionable data, even if somebody at the State's records office is willing to certify it. I'd hazard a guess that the stamp on that certificate belongs to somebody who wasn't born before 1970, let alone 1961 - so what, exactly is that worth?

RemyDuron: LesserEvil: This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

NOTHING would dispel their concerns. ALL a birth certificate is is a record, and I don't see why that being in a computer system or actual physical paper would make a big difference. They can't release the original, and even if it did it would provide no additional proof because they released an official copy which is just as much proof as the original.

Dear lord I hope I just got trolled, because if someone can type that well but is still so completely oblivious as to think the birthers have any rational basis for their arguments. . .

Look, as long as the ORIGINAL, "real" certificate remains locked away in Obama's keepsake box, there will be questions from a far larger audience. Show the original certificate and put the Nirthers out into the fringe beyond a doubt.

What pisses me off is the way their questions are dismissed without actually showing any evidence to shut them down. You aren't even doing the job half-assed - you simply aren't doing anything.

It's like my teenager tells me the dishes are done.... I can't see the dirty dishes where I'm at, and my son won't let me into the kitchen to verify the dishes are clean. He gets upset because I don't believe him, and calls me a liar, then produces his friend Joe, who insists the dishes are all clean, and I should go sit back down and stop worrying about it.

Those dishes might be clean, might not be. Nobody has proven anything yet. I'll be pissed tomorrow if those dishes aren't done. My wife is screeching to be let into the kitchen to look at the dishes, but those kids are blocking her, calling her a loony bat. For my part, I am growing concerned why they insist on preventing her from checking such a simple thing. Another kid walks into the living room and shows a picture of clean dishes. I don't know where this picture came from... it looks like our dishes, but it could have been taken days ago... why not just show the damn dishes!??!?

So yeah, it bothers me a little bit that the anti-nirthers are running around squealing like they are demon possessed, calling people liars (using a disingenuous semantic interpretation) and refusing the simple, easy, route to shut the supposed "crazies" up.



Ant: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

Read the other responses to my post.

Really.

Hoopido: Dil Doe: Let all 400,000 people touch and feel it? Put it in a museum? Send it across the country on a whistle stop tour?

No, but when the Death Certificate comes out it would be great to see.

*facepalm*

I pretty sure the Secret Service has talked to Drew before, and if I recall, it doesn't make him very happy.

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Becaue the "certification" serves as prima facie evidence of a birth certificate. In court cases, it serves the same purpose as a normal birth certificate. Which is why every case has been laughed out of court summarily.

Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

SkinnyHead: Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Because it lists personal information that he doesn't want released to the general public.

Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

HighOnCraic: House of Tards: furiousxgeorge:

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

OMG! I HAVE TO ADD THIS TO THE OBAMA DEATH LIST!

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

Has anyone seen McCain's deathlist? He used a jet with bombs, and the rest he outlived.

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

You do realize that the president doesn't have the power to create laws, only to enforce the ones on the books and determine policy, right?

HighOnCraic:

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

It's that or the guy who was in his late 80's and died of heart failure.

Elderly people dying of age-related illnesses? Who could even envision such a thing?

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

And that means he has the power to overlook Hawaii state law? I thought the whole federalism thing meant that states were sovereign and that the federal government couldn't invalidate its laws on a whim.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

I'll quote the law once again, because I am just that goddamn quixotic.

it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

Just because Obama can look at his own records doesn't mean he has the power to release them. And the director of the state's department of health confirms that restriction.

Are you honestly saying you understand a Hawaii state statute more than the director of the very department said statute regulates?

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

Show me the case law or section of Hawaii state code that says he does. Because no, I don't think anyone really has a "direct and tangible interest" in the original copy of his own birth certificate. He or she may have a direct and tangible interest in the record that states routinely release. But not in the original copy, no.

printboy: If I were a liberal, Yada Yada Yada

If I were a Liberal I'd have to immediately quit smoking, in public at least. I'd be required to agree that global warming is real and man is the cause. Even though the earth has cooled in the last decade, everyone knows its still getting warmer.

I'd also have to renounce Christianity in favor of Mother Earth and believe that the Constitution is a 'living instrument'.

I'd have to agree that victimhood trumps merit and that liberals know best. Always. And lastly, I'd have to support the notion that racism is still rampant, even if it is the silent 'institutional' type.

In return, I'll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I'll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don't work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?

I'll finally get my columns published in my own hometown paper and will have a good chance of getting face time on MSNBC. Best of all, I'll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I will live happily ever after. Isn't that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

You do realize the President isn't above the law, right? Remember the impeached guys?

Tony Baloney: My father is a rabid, froth-jawed birther and it shames me to think I'm related, let alone descended, from anyone so ignorant and hateful, especially after the flap 8 1/2 years ago about "Sore/Loserman" and all that. I and most folks I know on the wrong side of that election stopped biatching about it once W was sworn in, got behind him, crossed our fingers and said "meh, how bad could he possibly be?"

\the horror
\\the horror

Almost makes you want to move out of his basement, that'd show him.

StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

Biden's not black. So, yes. Many of these nuts would rather have Biden. They'd rather have Timothy McVeigh as president than any black man.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

No.

captain_heroic44: Show me the case law or section of Hawaii state code that says he does. Because no, I don't think anyone really has a "direct and tangible interest" in the original copy of his own birth certificate. He or she may have a direct and tangible interest in the record that states routinely release. But not in the original copy, no.

Actually, as the registrant he is one of the people explicitly described in the statute as having a direct and tangible interest (there's a list).

However, that means he can inspect it. It in no way means he can disseminate it.

SkinnyHead:

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

Nope. We're pretty sure he knows when and where he was born and has a wide variety of identifications.

FreakinB: SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

fuzzy409: Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a US. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.


And thousands of Americans per year somehow manage to travel to Cuba with a US Passport........

badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He can, but what good would it do him? All he can do is inspect it. He can't take it out and display it on the internet or anything. That's what the COLB is for.

RevMercutio: LesserEvil:
In short, the image above is not proof of anything

Look at the bottom of the picture you just posted, idiot. It's the sentence with "PROOF" in it.

LIBURL LIES! I LOOKED AT THAT DOCUMANT AND THE WORD PROOF ISNT ON THEIR ANY WHERE. AND WHAT IS THAT PRIMO FACE NONSENCE ANYWAY DOES THAT MEAN FORGARY IN FRENCH?

printboy: If I were a Liberal I'd have to immediately quit smoking, in public at least. I'd be required to agree that global warming is real and man is the cause. Even though the earth has cooled in the last decade, everyone knows its still getting warmer.

I'd also have to renounce Christianity in favor of Mother Earth and believe that the Constitution is a 'living instrument'.

I'd have to agree that victimhood trumps merit and that liberals know best. Always. And lastly, I'd have to support the notion that racism is still rampant, even if it is the silent 'institutional' type.

In return, I'll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I'll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don't work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?

I'll finally get my columns published in my own hometown paper and will have a good chance of getting face time on MSNBC. Best of all, I'll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I will live happily ever after. Isn't that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?

As long as you don't have to give up straw men you'll be just fine.

Vangor: LesserEvil: It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems

It says the city, county, and island of his birth. Unless one wants to say this is false, I don't see the contention to be made.

We don't honestly know whether it's true or false. As far as the State of Hawaii is concerned, for legal purposes, they are certifying that it is true - but that doesn't make it actually true. People are legally declared guilty of crimes they didn't commit, and innocent of crimes they did commit. "Legal" doesn't always equal reality.


LesserEvil: produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

I don't believe I have an original birth certificate, and I'm half Obama's age.

I do. I was born in 1966, and I have my original, as well as a certified copy (an actual copy of the original copy that is on file with the county). I also have my hospital birth certificate (different than the county birth certificate). I don't think that paper Hawaii printed last year would have qualified without some additional documentation.

I also have a document trail that includes my military records, for which I had to produce a certified copy of my ORIGINAL birth certificate, and follows on to the DD214 and my clearance papers for my current job on a government contract.

Somehow, I would think that the POTUS would need just as much documentation to get his job as I did to enlist in the Marine Corps.

The defenders in this thread are stupider than the people who think Obama was born in Kenya.

LesserEvil: If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

Do you have to show your original driver license when stopped by the police?

The original birth certificate has nothing to do with the legality of it.

Any certified copy is just is good. saying otherwise is just not true.

printboy:

Hi there.

I don't know if you ever noticed, but at the top of the thread there's what we call a "Topic." The way the site is designed, people discuss the subject matter of the "Topic" within the posts of each thread.

/The More you Know....

badhatharry: FreakinB: SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He doesn't have to, and the request that he do so is unreasonable and racist.

cameroncrazy1984: badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He can, but what good would it do him? All he can do is inspect it. He can't take it out and display it on the internet or anything. That's what the COLB is for.

He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

Well, according to the Hawaii state law - which, again, has been posted in this very thread - he can't put it out there for the public. What he can put out for the public, he has.

/Such a great time waster! Need to do this more often

zabadu: SkinnyHead: logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

Are you completely stupid? Did you not see this?

Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

So his grandmother was lying when she said she was at the birth?

LesserEvil: I do. I was born in 1966, and I have my original, as well as a certified copy (an actual copy of the original copy that is on file with the county). I also have my hospital birth certificate (different than the county birth certificate). I don't think that paper Hawaii printed last year would have qualified without some additional documentation.

The official records person of Hawaii disagrees with you. Maybe you should tell her how to do her job then.