Bloody William: printboy: Obama did release his birth certificate....

You just can't see it....

It's Transparent !!!!

Tell us how KOS stands for Keith Olbermann Show. I never get tired of that.


This thread wouldn't be complete without me reminding you guys the following....

Daily Keith Olbermann Show
was created for and by MSNBCu (GE - NBC) in cooperation with Keith Olbermann to have an outlet for "contradiction and validation" (oxymoron) to hype his propaganda.

/Just thought you may want to know.
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


Hey Bartender.... Another round of Kool-Aid for all my Liberal Friends!!!!

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

They still aren't going to take the original out of the vault and send it to him. They'll send him a copy which is right where we are now.

Fart_Machine: The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

Well they do got teh ghey marriage there!!!1!!!

sabyJeBus: i don't see a real reason why he doesn't actually release the records to the public like everybody else does, instead of putting up a farking jpeg that people can analyze to hell and back and still never prove beyond a shadow of a doubt whether its legit or not.

its not like proving the fools wrong by releasing the documents they say will prove he isn't a citizen would have any negative consequences. its a pretty immature argument to go with 'i shouldn't have to, i won't even dignify it with a response'. just release the damn thing and you will make everyone who questioned it look like an idiot immediately.

unless of course you're lying, then you would probably want to quash the records and order them sealed indefinitely....wait a minute...

I wish there was some way to biatch slap someone through the internets. You people are too stupid to live.

I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.

O RLY?? Do you have proof that he's spent "greater than $1,000,000" in lawyers fees. Particularly since most of the cases have been against state officials NOT Obama directly, and in one of the few cases that Obama's lawyers were acting directly (Keyes v Bowen) they were working pro se??

Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit

Claimed to be counterfeit based on the claims of two faceless, nameless internet "experts", namely "Polarik" and "TechDude". No real document expert has come forth claiming it's a counterfeit. Even Sandra Lines said the same thing Dr. Neil Krawetz said in proving Polarik wrong.

Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

No proof such an adoption look place. Even if it had, it wouldn't have affected Obama's US citizenship since under US law he could not renounce his US citizenship as a minor, and under Indonesian law he was too old to gain Indonesian citizenship via adoption.

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)

You mean the same record that gives his birthplace as Honolulu, Hawaii?

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit

Again, based on the claim of nameless, faceless internet "experts". No real evidence to support this claim, and even Debbie Stossel has backed off on it.

Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

Considering that the birthers have yet to come up with anything even close to credible evidence, what I wonder is how anyone could believe their tripe.

printboy:
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


But you can't trust Churchill. His mother was a foreign national, and he never showed his birf certificate!

I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. My family will start talking to me again, and chances are, my ex-wife will want to renew the marriage vows she broke when I started spouting conservative opinions.
I'd like to be a liberal because it's ever so much easier to allow others to form my opinions for me instead of researching an issue myself. That always gets me in trouble, especially when the facts I discover diverge from the latest politically correct consensus.
I'd like to be a liberal because then I'd be rewarded for all my shortcomings and nothing would ever be my fault. I'd be an important cog in the wheel of social justice, and a cherished warrior in the current fight for equality.

GomezAdams: wmoonfox
He won; get over it.

If George W. Bush... ..etc.

No, I wouldn't have approved, I don't even approve of most of the things on your cherry picked list of outrage now. But you would, if it had been Bush or McCain, and you would have told me to get over it.

So get over it, he won.

Well, I'm satisfied. This thread hasn't just gone full-retard, it's gone extra super deluxe supreme retard with fries.

If I were a liberal, I would be free to have sex whenever and with whomever I want - and be considered 'empowered' to boot. I could abort any inconvenience with nary a thought because my rights to my body trump the life I would have suctioned out of me.


I'd like to be a liberal because any guilt I would normally feel for what used to be considered deviant, irresponsible behavior may be assuaged by merely advocating the expenditure of other people's money on whatever the cause du jour is. Very cool. Especially since my stock portfolio has been pretty much decimated.


I want to be a liberal because they care so much. They have a lock on all the fashionable emotions, like tolerance, diversity, equality and patriotism. And as long as my intentions are pure and I 'care', I won't have to accept responsibility for any negative consequences that my actions might cause.


I'd like to be a liberal because everyone knows that conservatives are racist, homophobic, stupid and, well, beneath contempt. Conservatives are motivated by gasp, profit, instead of being nice. Enough said.


I'd like to be a liberal because I'd be able to redefine reality to my own specifications. I could turn failure into success, murder into choice, lies into 'misstatements', and theft into investment. I would automatically be considered wise, instead of opinionated. Best of all, I could make up the rules as I go along, change them in midstream and then demonize anyone who doesn't agree with me.

SkinnyHead: Evidence of huffing

Look. The article that is posted at the top of the thread has:

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day. They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

So stop with your "what is he hiding?" crap, unless you think that this is a conspiracy that the Dept. of Public Health has been in on since 1961.

That goes for the rest of you conspiracy minded froth-buckets as well.

Stop playing the concern troll and state why you don't find this relevant, yet the fact that you don't know who his mother's gynecologist was to be a matter of great importance.

Bloody William: Well, I'm satisfied. This thread hasn't just gone full-retard, it's gone extra super deluxe supreme retard with fries.


Want a shake with dat ?

LesserEvil: This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

NOTHING would dispel their concerns. ALL a birth certificate is is a record, and I don't see why that being in a computer system or actual physical paper would make a big difference. They can't release the original, and even if it did it would provide no additional proof because they released an official copy which is just as much proof as the original.

Dear lord I hope I just got trolled, because if someone can type that well but is still so completely oblivious as to think the birthers have any rational basis for their arguments. . .

printboy: I want to be a liberal..../i>

We don't want you, you're too much of a dick.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

look closer at the document...see where it says "City, Town or location of birth"? See below that where it says "Honolulu"? Where is this "Honolulu"? Hawaii, correct? DOB 1961...well after Hawaii became a state.

citizen.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

Bestbank Tiger: They still aren't going to take the original out of the vault and send it to him. They'll send him a copy which is right where we are now.

Even if they released the "original", it wouldn't be authentic - everyone knows he flew back to Hawaii to personally fabricate a phony one. So, since they have already doctored the original, and have nothing to hide, why won't they release it? Why not? They can just mail it to someone's house, you know, with a little note that, after you examine it, mail it to some other guy's house. Like an "I'm A Legitimate President" chain letter.

/birthers are idiots

fuzzy409: 3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.
Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a US. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Incorrect. The New York Times even had a travel article for Pakistan in 1981, and state department guidelines for Pakistan only said where to get a visa and how long it would last.

There is no evidence to support such a claim, and the State Department themselves have said there was no travel ban.

Try again.

Ant: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

in the overall sense and not just in this case? yes.

TheMadChaosopher: Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

"CITY, TOWN, OR LOCATION OF BIRTH: HONOLULU"

Shut. The. fark. Up.

Lenny_da_Hog: printboy:
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


But you can't trust Churchill. His mother was a foreign national, and he never showed his birf certificate!

His mother was my great-great-great-great Aunt. She was from Rochester, NY. Classy lady.

printboy: I'd like to be a liberal because it's ever so much easier to allow others to form my opinions for me instead of researching an issue myself.

Oh, the irony. Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh would like to have word with you. You are a moran.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

This document proves Obama's birth in Hawaii in 1961 for all legal purposes. Obama need produce no other document, and the sole reason he was asked to produce even this document for public inspection is because those doing the asking are racists. We don't want to shut them up, because we like it when racists out themselves.

printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me.

I've seen your posts. Your political views have nothing to do with why people don't like you.

SkinnyHead: So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

To date, I've never seen a birther address the statement issued by the Hawaii Department of Health's director regarding the validity of the birth certificate. Ever.

Argh2: printboy: I want to be a liberal..../i>

We don't want you, you're too much of a dick.


And I care....because????

If Obama was actually born in the USA he would build a time machine and take me back to prove it.

I don't know how you Obama worshipers can be so gullible.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

Part of the deal with the grays after Roswell was technology transfer and one of the things gained from that was laser printers. The Trilateral Commission and the Iluminati kept that to themselves for as long as they could.

printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

magores: --If one parent is a U.S. citizen, the U.S. citizen parent must have resided in the U.S. for 10 years, at least 5 of which were after age 14.

Another birther argument - the law was amended and made retroactive.

Befuddled: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

Part of the deal with the grays after Roswell was technology transfer and one of the things gained from that was laser printers. The Trilateral Commission and the Iluminati kept that to themselves for as long as they could.

True. And patents on laser printers, microwave ovens, and cell phones pay for the MiB organization that keeps them in line.

Elmo Jones: printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

Unfortunately, it's illegal to do so. Too bad, so sad. What about the newspaper ad announcing his birth?

printboy: Elmo Jones: printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

oops you're

Obama was not born, he was created inside a top secret laboratory in the secluded wilderness of Alaska.

i thought this had been cleared up?

SkinnyHead: Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

So, then, it's cool for Obama to usurp state sovereignty and order HI to change its vital statistics process. What an extraordinary right-wing position.

SkinnyHead: I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

You accepted their word "at first" and think their word is "probably trustworthy."

If their word is in doubt, then any document to come from them is suspect. Which means any birth certificate from Hawaii Obama would offer (you know, besides the COLB he has already put out) would also be suspect.

Now, 338:18 is not a "lame and ridiculous excuse." If you think the state's department of health director and governor are trustworthy, then you should not what the former farking said: (PDF)

State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

So... if the state itself is suspect. If the director of the state's department of health is suspect. If these people are incorrect in the interpretation of their own state's laws and regulations, why the fark would you accept a birth certificate to come from them?

spleef420: emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

yeah, the same "Leftists" that swore passed a Senate Resolution stating that McCain wasn't elligible either because he was born in Panama during the construction of the canal...it was US territory until the canal was fininshed.

There's idiots on all sides and this isn't a right or left issue, dumbass.

All of these farking people I need to EABOD.

Linky

printboy: Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

His glue what? Your grammar is atrocious!

SkinnyHead: I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

Oh - how cute ...

LesserEvil:
In short, the image above is not proof of anything

Look at the bottom of the picture you just posted, idiot. It's the sentence with "PROOF" in it.


Afterwards, show us YOUR original birth certificate.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request.

Based on what, exactly?

I want to be a liberal because everyone knows they hold the moral high ground. They don't lie, cheat or steal. Oh, and they don't condone torture. The media says so, so it must be true.


Before I am able to join this community of man, however, there are a few ground rules:


I have to acknowledge that government is the best and only solution for any problems America has. Despite the fact that pretty much every government solution to date has been a disaster.


I must agree that America is bad and white Christian males are responsible for all that is wrong with the world. Further, I must agree that terrorists and third world dictators are either freedom fighters or misunderstood men of good will. Oh, and I must acknowledge that dialogue is better than war. Even though decades of dialogue haven't worked, things are different, now that Obama is president. I must have faith. After all, the times, they are a changin'.


I'd, of course, be expected to not only condone, but happily embrace gay marriage and the long list of newly minted sexual behaviors, and swear to never mention the adverse health risks or the proven harm they do to traditional families.


I'd also have to quit judging people (except for conservatives). After all, liberals will allow me to do whatever I want, free from moral censure, and its only fair I do the same for them.

Not a single wing nutter has explained exactly how the announcements got into the papers.

This Honolulu Advertiser announcement of Barack Obama's Aug 4, 1961 birth was published August 13, 1961, page B-6,

Here's the copy of the microfilm.



Any birther who wanted to, can go to Honolulu and see it themselves. The real truth is, they don't want to know.

If you want to see the page. Link (new window)

For the love of god, conspiracy theorists. He was born in hawaii. Even if he wasn't, he's still better than bush or mccain, and frankly the president just ends up being a figurehead anyway. Be more worried about what your congressman is doing..

For anyone who is honestly wondering why Obama doesn't release this, not a conspiracy freak, look no farther than Dragonsbreath's post.

It doesn't matter what he releases, they will always want more. Always. He is by god a sekret muslin from Kenya and these people are the only ones who see through the lies!