Vangor: erewhon: Hey, buddy, get back to me in three years when you hear that ol' muezzin a'singin' from where Antioch Baptist used to be.

It's even harder to sing Adhan in Reptilian-1 than it is in Arabic.

What? I believe you're being sarcastic, but I don't know what about...

You said a foreign national in the office of the President couldn't cause any real problems.

Keep thinking that - soon you'll be Mooslimated by force.

These threads are always good for beefing up my ignore list.

I need to check my Fark Monster Manual for the best weapons to use on trolls.

I love birthers.

Can't wait for the 2012 GOP primaries. I am hoping the batshiat crazy racist morans can force the GOP candidates to vocalize their support or rejection of the birther movement. If they reject the birthers it'll be like insulting Rush and the base will turn on them. If they support the birthers the rest of sane folks in America get to point and laugh at what retards they are.

Good times.

logruszed: Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?

No, no he won't. Christ please don't quote trolls I have on ignore.

He is really that stupid. Honest. Ask him about his degrees.

SundaesChild: Isn't it members of the Right who want Ahnold to be President?

Haha, good point.

The biggest problem is this gives justifications to nut jobs to do something crazy because in their eyes he is not the "real president".

anybody else remember the halcyon days when animal-human hybrids were topics for a state of the union address?

perhaps there's nuggets of knowledge on the eventuality of a lizard-people president in there somewhere.

StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

It'd be 1000000000x better than "President Sarah Palin".


shudder

erewhon: Chuck Wagon: The courts just ignore their crap and treat them like everyone else. It's just like the people who copyright their names and then sue everyone who prints their names. The cases get tossed almost as soon as their filed.

Just don't step into the "boat" at the admiralty court and they can't touch you. You obviously also need to renounce your corporate UCC identity, you know the one that's in all caps?

Thats just what the lizzard people want you to think.

tallguywithglasseson: Confronting conspiracy theorists with evidence doesn't help anything, any evidence presented is just considered further evidence of a deeper conspiracy.

Just ignore them, they're worthless wastes of life.



"Hey, what's up?"

Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Sure, it's something like a bowel movement.

mreuther: need to check my Fark Monster Manual for the best weapons to use on trolls.



Just use Troll Spray.

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Corvus: Remember the "get whitey" video that is going to be released tomorrow? Honest? really?

Oh yeah... I had forgotten about that one.

Yeah, that's what they count on.

They count on you forgetting them. If people remembered them all, now one would believe them.

Remember how in 1993 I think it was, they said that economic budget passed was going to DESTROY the US economy?


Just like they say that now, it's going to happen?

Yeah that didn't happen, in fact things did pretty well after that budget. The economy improved and the defecit went down.

PhiloBeddoe: tallguywithglasseson: Confronting conspiracy theorists with evidence doesn't help anything, any evidence presented is just considered further evidence of a deeper conspiracy.

Just ignore them, they're worthless wastes of life.

Yes, investigating a president who organized a break in is equal to investigating a president who provided birth records to people who refuse to believe they are birth records.

Your troll-fu is low.

"Hey, what's up?"

Teknowaffle: I am certain that he was born in the US There is no question about it. But I am surprised that you don't have to show a birth certificate before taking the oath to at lease someone.

When I joined the army a while back, I had to give my birth certificate to be a lowly E-4.

Shouldn't the commander in chief have to compile a similar packet of information?

You probably could have shown any one (or two) of a few documents. One being a birth certificate. A passport might have also sufficed.

But, never the less, you would NOT have had to show your original birth certificate and validated copy is probably all you actually showed them (and probably all you had, anyway).

The birthers are asking for the original document (which is no longer legally available). The copies we typically get for identification are not "good enough" for them.

Vital Records (Hawaii) (new window)

If what the birthers are saying is true, doesn't that mean the whole Republican Party is also in on the conspiracy? I don't hear any elected Republicans sounding off on this, demanding a formal investigation or something similar. So if the birthers believe this stuff, do they still wholeheartedly support the GOP?

erewhon: Keep thinking that - soon you'll be Mooslimated by force.

Damn, I just had my car detailed.

Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

andrewagill:
apistat: Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

The best part of that theory is that she claimed that Obama was born in Seattle. Malcolm X was a US citizen. Dunham was a US citizen. Seattle--someone help me out here, what country is Seattle in?

So a man is born in the US to two US citizen parents.

OMG! He's not a US citizen! It's so obvious!

Holy crap that blog is a bag of crazy. It's almost Time Cube crazy. Also, takes bloody forever to get to the point, by the time it springs the "revelation" no reader would give a crap if Obama's father was Shaka Zulu himself.

OKAY, FACTERS, HERE ARE THE FARKS:

Obama is the son of a Kenyan man and an American woman. That has been proven beyond all doubt.

It has been suggested his father was not a citizen at the time of the birth; that is irrelevant, his mother was an American and all you need is one American parent.

It has been suggested they were not lawfully married; again irrelevant. The mother's nationality was never in doubt, and being a bastard doesn't seem to disqualify anyone from public office, if what I see these days is any indication.

It has been suggested Barack was not born in the USA; that also does not matter. The son of an American is an American, people travel to foreign countries all the time, and some are pregnant and some give birth. Either way, the baby is American.

I do however notice one other thing: Barack has become a multi-millionaire, mainly through some highly questionable book deals, where he was paid millions to allow his name to be affixed to a ghost-writer's paid valentine.

Nobody reads these things, and no one takes them seriously. Hillary got $2 million for her "autobiography," even though her ghost-wrtier sued her when she stiffed the ghost for her pay. "Writing" a book for a preposterous sum is just a way of bribing someone respectably enlough that you can do it in public.

Nice lady, she even stiffs waitresses too, for as little a $5.

The Clintons have glommed $100 million that way, at least that we know of. Obama has only slopped up a few million of his own, but there is no question he is an American---and he's in someone's pocket.

The_Gallant_Gallstone

If you want to choose your questions beforehand, that's fine... just don't have the audacity to call that event a "town hall meeting".

Those "town hall meetings" were a crock when McCain ran them as a candidate... they're a crock now that Obama is running them as our President.

OK, then they shouldn't be called 'town hall meetings' and we're suddenly good? It seems obvious that someone holding a press event can dictate some level of structure. She's fighting the old battle because it shouldn't be called a 'town hall'?

Transparency in government rarely comes from the well-crafted messages during press events (Baghdad Bob being a popular example to the contrary). It comes from, well, transparency in government process, from public access to government reporting, from accountability. It doesn't come from the PR mouthpiece.

And that's why Helen Thomas is a sad joke. She's fighting for a concept that hasn't existed in decades. She's standing at the end of a PR machine, she's not an investigative reporter, she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

Baby Diego

she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

Sh*t, the most notable thing to happen in the White House press lately was a minefield of a question, submitted via email by Iranians, given by a blogger.

What does that say about the whole thing?

/yeah, I just replied to myself
//seemed relevant

AspectRatio: SundaesChild: Isn't it members of the Right who want Ahnold to be President?

Haha, good point.

God No! The Right despises Arnold, other than one speech he made at the 2004 Convention.

Baby Diego: And that's why Helen Thomas is a sad joke. She's fighting for a concept that hasn't existed in decades. She's standing at the end of a PR machine, she's not an investigative reporter, she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

If it's near obsolete, shut it down. As long as Gibbs (or any obsolete "mouthpiece") holds the title of White House Press Secretary, what they say has the sanction of the President. It's not some MoveOn op-ed piece... it's an aspect of the Administration.

There's more to transparency than being a hardass to the Press Secretary... that is true. But challenging the government's official version of things is a part of the fight.

French Rage: Random question about the supposed video of his grandma saying she saw him born in Kenya, are there any actual copies of this video for people to view, or like the "whitey" video has this only been seen by everyone's mother's cousin's coworker?

Ah, yes, the infamous "why'd he have to be born in Hawaii?" video.

AspectRatio: StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

It'd be 1000000000x better than "President Sarah Palin".


shudder

They'd both be bad in such separate and distinct ways that it would be impossible to compare.

SkinnyHead's GED-fu is strong.

I wonder why people bother trying to discredit chain emails. I guess, really, that what I wonder is why people bother to read them to begin with. I did that once... its generic form was "powerful Navy ship vs. lighthouse". I actually explained to my "friend" (I don't talk to him anymore, pretty much because of the constant spewing of just that sort of crap) why the USS Coral Sea couldn't have been in that place at that time. He then insisted that maybe it was the "aircraft carrier Missouri". Ah, what fresh hell... anyway, my very long-time fascination with aircraft carriers paid off in a tiny way, but I felt stupider about winning that argument than about losing any other.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Its kinda of like racists. I personally like them to be loud and proud about it, it makes it easier to know that they are likely not worth my time. Having this linger out there helps keep them frothing over a non-issue, and the more they froth the more they draw attention to the fact that they are completely batshait insane.

He provided all the legal documentation he needed to.

SkinnyHead:
Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate.

well, actually HRS 338:18 (new window) seems to only deal with "certified copies" of vital documents.

SkinnyHead: Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Obama isn't claiming any of this. It's just being pointed out to you as a fact. Obama publicly released the only document Hawaii currently issues. Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

This much is also clear: this quest has nothing to do with finding out the truth. It is all about harassing someone you don't like very much.

patrick767: You can't cure stupid, Gibbs. These morons don't deserve a response and it won't phase them. Give it up.

You can't cure stupid, but you sure can hammer it into shape.

Chuck Wagon: Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

Not true.

I'm a natural born US citizen. My wife is Chinese. If our child is born in China, there are some hoops I have to jump through in order for the child to be a US citizen.

It's not difficult to do the paperwork, but there is paperwork involved.

Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

Yes, late-night comedy talk show writers.

logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

heap: anybody else remember the halcyon days when animal-human hybrids were topics for a state of the union address?

Which sitting president said: "...how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries ..."

He was trying to break free of the hypnotic imprinting he'd gotten from the reptilians at Dulce.

magores: Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

huh uh.

according to fark you are.

magores: Chuck Wagon: Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

Not true.

I'm a natural born US citizen. My wife is Chinese. If our child is born in China, there are some hoops I have to jump through in order for the child to be a US citizen.

It's not difficult to do the paperwork, but there is paperwork involved.

Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non U.S. citizen parent on or after November 14, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. citizen parent may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years, at least two years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen. This period of physical presence must have taken place prior to the birth of the child.

PenguinTheRed: Even if there is anything to this, how can anybody possibly think that invalidating the election would in any way be a good idea? Whatever rioting and mayhem you could picture, at the very least it would put Biden in the Oval Office, which should send chills down anybody's spine.

And Nancy Pelosi as VP?

Come to think of it, I've never seen any other President's birth certificate.

On the other hand, since Obama put his birth certificate online, its probably one of the most publicized birth certificates in history.

It is therefore ironic that the Birthers keep claiming that Obama hasn't met the standards of proof of citizenship. The fact is, they're demanding a higher standard of proof than has ever been demanded of any President in history.

SkinnyHead: Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

What would be his tangible interest in obtaining it? Just to attempt to pacify some nutters? (Who would undoubtedly find fault with it anyway)

He's proven his citizenship with a document that clearly states that is is "prima facia evidence" in "any court proceeding"

The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.
Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament" -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None

Illinois Bar Records -- Not released.
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

SkinnyHead: logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

Are you completely stupid? Did you not see this?

Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

Didn't 9/11 happen so the proof of Obama's Kenyan/Muslim birth by an Iraqi Al-Qaeda doctor would be destroyed?

olddinosaur: I do however notice one other thing: Barack has become a multi-millionaire, mainly through some highly questionable book deals, where he was paid millions to allow his name to be affixed to a ghost-writer's paid valentine.

Please tell me you are one of the nutjobs who believes Bill Ayers ghost wrote Dreams from My Father. Oh, pretty please. Those people may be even crazier than the birthers as their standard for proof is even lower (Ayers and Obama both use terms like fog, mist, ships, seas, boats and ocean in their writing). Maybe Captain Crunch ghost wrote for both of them!

To my knowledge, there is no evidence either of Obama's books were ghost written.

Lol, people still try to talk to Skinneyhead?

There's no point.

Renart: I love it that one of the leaders of the birthers is named ORLY Taitz. It's much like the fact that one of the biggest Shakespeare authorship cranks was named John Thomas LOONEY. The universe occasionally has a good sense of humor.

/O RLY?
//YA RLY!



Birtherdom's own nitrous-huffing dentist/lawyer/crackpot.......

Overfiend: C'mon people. Get over it. Obama is our president, like it or not.

/didn't vote for Obama
//Can't we all just get along?

/I can think of 59,934,814 people that I can get along with.... the rest... can rot in hell! :)

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.
Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament" -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None

Illinois Bar Records -- Not released.
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

Had not heard that one yet.