I'm actually kind of amazed Gibbs took a question from WND. Sure, you can laugh at him, but it's a complete waste of time.

The people pushing this story aren't really in the "fact based community". They just like to say they are.

Jmast7: I'm actually kind of amazed Gibbs took a question from WND. Sure, you can laugh at him, but it's a complete waste of time.

I watched a YouTube video of him taking that question. Looked to be the last question of the day. Maybe he just needed a laugh & took it for the hell of it, knowing it'd be easily refuted WARRGARBL.

You can't cure stupid, Gibbs. These morons don't deserve a response and it won't phase them. Give it up.

Meh. You can't cure stupid, Gibbs Robert Farley.

[aww_jeez_not_this_shiat_again.jpg]

[facepalm.gif]

This strikes me as a piss-poor conspiracy. Where are my secret, shadowy groups vying for world domination? Where are my multitude of suspects each with their own convoluted motive?

Birthers: ZOMG!11!!!! WHERE IS OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE???!!!11!

Hawaiian Governor Lingle: Uh, Here it is.

Birthers: ZOMG!11!!!! WHERE IS OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE???!!!11!

Confronting conspiracy theorists with evidence doesn't help anything, any evidence presented is just considered further evidence of a deeper conspiracy.

Just ignore them, they're worthless wastes of life.

Yesterday's thread ha a lot of people wanting to know the name of the attending physician for some absurd reason. I'm sure that this is all coming from some birfer website somewhere, but what the hell difference does that make?

For one, there's a good chance that the attending physician is dead now, and even if he isn't what the hell do they need that information for? Are they going to send a wingnut blogger to his house to ask if they prayed to Barack Obama Sr.'s moon god or something?

Even if there is anything to this, how can anybody possibly think that invalidating the election would in any way be a good idea? Whatever rioting and mayhem you could picture, at the very least it would put Biden in the Oval Office, which should send chills down anybody's spine.

More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

House of Tards: Yesterday's thread ha a lot of people wanting to know the name of the attending physician for some absurd reason. I'm sure that this is all coming from some birfer website somewhere, but what the hell difference does that make?

For one, there's a good chance that the attending physician is dead now, and even if he isn't what the hell do they need that information for? Are they going to send a wingnut blogger to his house to ask if they prayed to Barack Obama Sr.'s moon god or something?

HE CAN'T REMEMBER THE ROUTINE BIRTH OF A HEALTHY BABY NEARLY 50 YEARS AGO!!! WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU LIBTARDS NEED?

Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

I made a movement earlier that had greater intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills than your average birther.

BKITU: Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

I made a movement earlier that had greater intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills than your average birther.

Where is your foodbaby's proof of citizenship????

Donald_McRonald: BKITU: Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

I made a movement earlier that had greater intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills than your average birther.

Where is your foodbaby's proof of citizenship????

The paperwork involved is long gone, I'm afraid.

PenguinTheRed: Even if there is anything to this, how can anybody possibly think that invalidating the election would in any way be a good idea? Whatever rioting and mayhem you could picture, at the very least it would put Biden in the Oval Office, which should send chills down anybody's spine.

You're giving these guys way too much credit.

For one, there's a good chance that the attending physician is dead now

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

furiousxgeorge:

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

OMG! I HAVE TO ADD THIS TO THE OBAMA DEATH LIST!

Doctor Funkenstein:
I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Begs your pardon begs:



/Descent *truly* is the highest form of patriotic

BKITU: Donald_McRonald: BKITU: Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

I made a movement earlier that had greater intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills than your average birther.

Where is your foodbaby's proof of citizenship????

The paperwork involved is long gone, I'm afraid.

[insert golfclap]

I lol'd.

Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

House of Tards: Doctor Funkenstein:
I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Begs your pardon begs:



/Descent *truly* is the highest form of patriotic

Self pwnage protest signs are the best!

You'd think they could at least write a small draft on a piece of paper to get the spacing right, catch any spelling/grammar errors and then copy it on a poster board.

But then where would the LOLs come from?

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because you won't accept that either?

Because he has better things to do?

Because he has provided enough legal documentation to prove native citizenship to everyone except the same types of lunatics who think the moon landing was a hoax?

Because an internet petition by WND (a petition which they have not released, by the way most likely because I.P. Freely signed it several times), that has roughly as many signatures as the state of Montana has people is not exactly a burgeoning issue?

Because the other 300 million American people don't feel the president should jump through hoops every time a bunch of conspiracy theorists come up with some crazy charge?

beerrun: House of Tards: Doctor Funkenstein:
I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Begs your pardon begs:



/Descent *truly* is the highest form of patriotic

Self pwnage protest signs are the best!

You'd think they could at least write a small draft on a piece of paper to get the spacing right, catch any spelling/grammar errors and then copy it on a poster board.

But then where would the LOLs come from?

They are so oppressed by the Marxlamofascist Obama that they can't even afford to buy $2 worth of stencils at Home Depot.

BKITU: [aww_jeez_not_this_shiat_again.jpg]

Donald_McRonald: [facepalm.gif]

I'll see those and raise you a...

[now_is_the_time_on_sprockets_when_we_dance.jpg]

Birfers make me feel smrt.

Came for Superallah, leaving disappointed

Equal time for nut jobs as a form of amusement

I don't know which group is worse, the birthers or the 9/11 inside job kooks.

C'mon people. Get over it. Obama is our president, like it or not.

/didn't vote for Obama
//Can't we all just get along?

budsterr: img2.pict.com

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

He didn't provide a DNA sample to prove he wasn't a reptilian either. WTF is this guy's problem?

Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

If you want to know what a racist looks like - but they don't know they're racists - just say Hi to a Birther.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

And I'll bet he thinks it's hilarious.

elchip: budsterr: img2.pict.com

Pixels, few shops in my time, yada-yada.....

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Why doesn't Sarah Palin release the DNA tests proving that she is actually Trig's mother, and not Bristol?

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

For the same reason that there's no point in trying to prove that the Jews weren't behind 9/11 or that the government isn't sending radio signals through your fillings. Because people who are 100% batshiat crazy cannot be persuaded otherwise. All you do is lend legitimacy to their cause, which is the last thing anyone needs to be doing.

Besides, how does one "release" an original birth certificate? Let all 400,000 people touch and feel it? Put it in a museum? Send it across the country on a whistle stop tour? The original HAS been inspected, and the results are easily available on the internet. I'd suggest beginning with snopes.

Seriously people, stop smoking whatever it is that makes you so insane and rejoin the reality-based world. It's quite nice here.

Doctor Funkenstein: I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Well then keep clear of the tea parties this weekend. It will help you maintain that belief.

montex: If you want to know what a racist looks like - but they don't know they're racists - just say Hi to a Birther.

Yup.

Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

AHA! It's a 1961 birth certificate, but it says AFRICAN for "Father's race"!!!1!

In 1961, they'd have said NEGRO!!11!

This PROVES that it is a FAKE!!11!

erewhon: AHA! It's a 1961 birth certificate, but it says AFRICAN for "Father's race"!!!1!

In 1961, they'd have said NEGRO!!11!

This PROVES that it is a FAKE!!11!

I know you're joking, but according to Hawai'i, the father and mother specify the race they want to appear there

Jmast7 2009-07-02 10:28:18 AM I'm actually kind of amazed Gibbs took a question from WND. Sure, you can laugh at him, but it's a complete waste of time.
========================================

I do love that he smacked them down. Also, it just goes to show you how wrong the conservatives are that obama supposedly picks what journalists can go into there. If they let the nutjobs from WND in, they'll let anyone in.

TheMadChaosopher: Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

Every state does...so long as the child is a natural-born citizen. What states do not allow is the registration of just any baby regardless of citizenship status.

elchip

fReeptastic!


[adjusts_tinfoil_hat.gif]

Dear God! If the McCain campaign finds out about this Obama is done for.

I'm all for a national, public petition to get to the bottom of lists.

Then we publish the list.

It's an easy way to pre-screen potential employees for mental illness.

elchip: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Why doesn't Sarah Palin release the DNA tests proving that she is actually Trig's mother, and not Bristol?

Because SHUT UP!

House of Tards: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because you won't accept that either?

Because he has better things to do?

Because he has provided enough legal documentation to prove native citizenship to everyone except the same types of lunatics who think the moon landing was a hoax?

Because an internet petition by WND (a petition which they have not released, by the way most likely because I.P. Freely signed it several times), that has roughly as many signatures as the state of Montana has people is not exactly a burgeoning issue?

Because the other 300 million American people don't feel the president should jump through hoops every time a bunch of conspiracy theorists come up with some crazy charge?

Shut your mouth when the GED in Law is talking.

elchip: I know you're joking, but according to Hawai'i, the father and mother specify the race they want to appear there

Well, Mr Buzzkill, I guess it ISN'T proof then.

Went to a birther site, that was about the only really interesting point they made.

Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because Hawaii doesn't keep them on file anymore. If he authorized them to release his birth certificate, they would release the copy he has already made available.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because, the State of Hawaii has a law that says you cannot release the Certificate of Live Birth to anyone.

Well, then, if the birth certificate is ok, he still can't hold office because he isn't HUMAN! He's a reptilian-demon cross, and is most likely the Anti-Buddha! Here is a picture of him transforming between his demon and reptilian forms!



What more proof do you need!!11!

jake3988: I do love that he smacked them down. Also, it just goes to show you how wrong the conservatives are that obama supposedly picks what journalists can go into there. If they let the nutjobs from WND in, they'll let anyone in.

I don't see how it shows the theory (as supported by Helen Thomas of all people) that journalists are hand-picked is wrong.

If I were Obama, I'd rather have some nutbars (like WND) that opposed me to demolish than allow a credible threat to ask me pointed questions.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

I don't know if you have figured this out yet or not, but progressives want Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck, Jim DeMint, the teabaggers and the birfers to have as grandiose of a voice as possible for the conservative movement. The more they talk the less effective the GOP is.

Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

//insert picture of crowd clapping here.
///tired of the birthers who are really KKK in disguise.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

Please read Bloody William's post and stop using the internet.

emilyek_1: The inquiry is completely valid.

The inquiry has been answered you stupid coont.

I'm trying to explain this "controversy" to my coworkers. They've never heard of the Birther movement. I had to show them SkinnyHead's comment to prove I'm not making this all up.

/Then they asked me why it said "GED in Law" by his name.

Sgt Otter: HE CAN'T REMEMBER THE ROUTINE BIRTH OF A HEALTHY BABY NEARLY 50 YEARS AGO!!! WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU LIBTARDS NEED?

Routine birth? The man is president! You're telling me if you were a doctor who gave birth to the first black President of the United States you wouldn't remember? Your stupid.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

C'mon, were all good friends on Fark. Tell us what you really think. crack this sucker wide open for us.

I am certain that he was born in the US There is no question about it. But I am surprised that you don't have to show a birth certificate before taking the oath to at lease someone.

When I joined the army a while back, I had to give my birth certificate to be a lowly E-4.

Shouldn't the commander in chief have to compile a similar packet of information?

I have actually printed up these stickers and now go around to burger joints putting them on all the straw dispensers. I was well worth the $50.

The only way to clear Obama's name is through a private commission. Obama & Biden are allowed to testify together, not under oath, but with a transcript.

It works every time!

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

He's the son of an American citizen, therefor the argument is moot.

TheMadChaosopher: Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

So? Under US Law Obama can be born on Mars and still be a natural born citizen by the simple act of being born to a natural born citizen. Happens all the time. Which is why the whole birth certificate "issue" is so full of FAIL.

Zeppelininthesky: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because, the State of Hawaii has a law that says you cannot release the Certificate of Live Birth to anyone.

I meant Birth Certificate...

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

He is also the son of an American citizen. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth. No matter where he was born he is a natural born citizen.

The inquiry is completely stupid.

I say let the riots begin and thin the herd.
I'll be up in the hills waitin it out to pick up the pieces later

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

He produced a legal birth certificate a year ago, so the inquiry is moot and only being made by nutjobs who are so pissed that he won the election that they will never accept the result.

Some of them are racists. Some of them are just too hardcore in their conservative beliefs to accept reality. All of them are stupid.

Chuck Wagon: Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

He could have renounced his citizenship, or his mother could have renounced hers prior to delivery, and that would obviate this. Another one of the tortuous arguments from that birther site. I suspect it's at least technically true. In that case, you'd have to get proof from the State Department, or if he popped up with citizenship in a country that requires renunciation it would be "proof" that he had renounced. Sort of.

emilyek_1

He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

You should have left at the first two lines, the extra mini-rant tips the post beyond believable.

Quit while you're ahead.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

That is a statement, not an inquiry.

He won; get over it.

montex: If you want to know what a racist looks like - but they don't know they're racists - just say Hi to a Birther.

This.

House of Tards: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because you won't accept that either?

Because he has better things to do?

Because he has provided enough legal documentation to prove native citizenship to everyone except the same types of lunatics who think the moon landing was a hoax?

Because an internet petition by WND (a petition which they have not released, by the way most likely because I.P. Freely signed it several times), that has roughly as many signatures as the state of Montana has people is not exactly a burgeoning issue?

Because the other 300 million American people don't feel the president should jump through hoops every time a bunch of conspiracy theorists come up with some crazy charge?

And because it keeps the birfers busy chasing a wild rabbit, instead of trying to undermine his presidency like the haters have done with other Presidents.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

a) The last time anyone mentioned loosening restrictions on who can be president, it was Republicans after the Governator was elected.

b) CITATION NEEDED on "Leftists" (whatever the fark that means to the hamster wheel that's cranking around in your head) find it too restrictive and Far Right.

c) You've got so many strawmen that you attack, it looks like you're being gangbanged in a cornfield.

emilyek_1

No, wait, I was wrong. You are apparently believable enough for at least seven bites.

erewhon: He could have renounced his citizenship, or his mother could have renounced hers prior to delivery, and that would obviate this. Another one of the tortuous arguments from that birther site. I suspect it's at least technically true. In that case, you'd have to get proof from the State Department, or if he popped up with citizenship in a country that requires renunciation it would be "proof" that he had renounced. Sort of.

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

/yea sure that happened

But it's a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH, not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE! Those are TOTALLY different things!

elchip: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Why doesn't Sarah Palin release the DNA tests proving that she is actually Trig's mother, and not Bristol?


Let's start simply: Is she a woman?

bboy: But it's a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH, not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE! Those are TOTALLY different things!

Especially since Hawaii has no such document called 'birth certificate'.

Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

Yep, right after the "We never went to the Moon" conspiracy and before the "Trilateral Commission runs the world" one.

jake3988: I do love that he smacked them down. Also, it just goes to show you how wrong the conservatives are that obama supposedly picks what journalists can go into there. If they let the nutjobs from WND in, they'll let anyone in.

Actually, they have to email the questions in, then they are picked the next day, or the administration calls them the day before to discuss the question.

This is no longer a secret and can be confirmed by the white house. This is for "formal" events.



During today's briefing, Thomas interrupted a back-and-forth between Gibbs and Chip Reid, the White House correspondent for CBS News, when Reid was questioning Gibbs about who was going to decide what questions would be asked of President Obama in a townhall meeting that was scheduled to take place in Annandale, Va., today.

Gibbs then had an exchange involving Reid and Thomas that went as follows:

Gibbs: "... But, again, let's--How about we do this? I promise we will interrupt the AP's tradition of asking the first question. I will let you [Chip Reid] ask me a question tomorrow as to whether you thought the questions at the town hall meeting that the President conducted in Annandale-"

Chip Reid: "I'm perfectly happy to-"

Helen Thomas: "That's not his point. The point is the control--"

Reid: "Exactly."

Thomas: "We have never had that in the White House. And we have had some, but not-- This White House."

Gibbs: "Yes, I was going to say, I'll let you amend her question."

Thomas: "I'm amazed. I'm amazed at you people who call for openness and transparency and-"

Gibbs: "Helen, you haven't even heard the questions."

Reid: "It doesn't matter. It's the process."

Thomas: "You have left open-"

Reid: "Even if there's a tough question, it's a question coming from somebody who was invited or was screened, or the question was screened."

Thomas: "It's shocking. It's really shocking."

Gibbs: "Chip, let's have this discussion at the conclusion of the town hall meeting. How about that?"

Reid: "Okay."

Gibbs: "I think-"

Thomas: "No, no, no, we're having it now--"

Gibbs: "Well, I'd be happy to have it now."

Thomas: "It's a pattern."

Gibbs: "Which question did you object to at the town hall meeting, Helen?"

Thomas: "It's a pattern. It isn't the question-"

Gibbs: "What's a pattern?"

Thomas: "It's a pattern of controlling the press."

Gibbs: "How so? Is there any evidence currently going on that I'm controlling the press--poorly, I might add."

Thomas: "Your formal engagements are pre-packaged."

Gibbs: "How so?"

Reid: "Well, and controlling the public-"

Thomas: "How so? By calling reporters the night before to tell them they're going to be called on. That is shocking."

Gibbs: "We had this discussion ad nauseam and-"

Thomas: "Of course you would, because you don't have any answers."

Gibbs: "Well, because I didn't know you were going to ask a question, Helen.
Go ahead."

Thomas: "Well, you should have."

Reporter: Thank you for your support.

Gibbs: "That's good. Have you e-mailed your question today?"

Thomas: "I don't have to e-mail it. I can tell you right now what I want to ask."

Gibbs: "I don't doubt that at all, Helen. I don't doubt that at all."

Thomas, 89, has covered the White House during every presidency since John F. Kennedy's.

Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

Here, let me get that for you.

/hot

bravian: A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

Yeah, yeah, bla bla. I know all about how you do it - my wife had to do the fake renunciation cha-cha to get a dual citizenship here.

CW was saying that Obama-mere's Kansan birth was incontrovertible concrete establishment of citizenship - it's not.

The Birthers couldn't care less whether they see Obama's birth certificate. What they really want to see is his DEATH certificate.

Vangor:
Routine birth? The man is president! You're telling me if you were a doctor who gave birth to the first black President of the United States you wouldn't remember? Your stupid.

Especially a male doctor, you would think that he would remember giving birth.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

As well as the son of a citizen.

emilyek_1: The inquiry is completely valid.

The inquiry has been answered multiple times to the fullest extent one can answer. Sure, the inquiry can be valid, but the idiotic insinuation of the claim by repetitiously asking for excessive, implausible evidence is not valid.

emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

Not too restrictive, but, in such an age where people in Washington state know what is happening in Washington D.C. a second after it occurs, what subterfuge could a foreign national actually perform which is more harmful than embroiling us in a five year military conflict? The notion is primitive, which seems in line with calling the notion Far Right.

zabadu: ///tired of the birthers who are really KKK in disguise.

Sadly, I don't think that's the case.

The Birthers are simply too insane to have a reason to hate Obama like the color of his skin.

More likely, they think he's one of the Greys.

/Or possibly one of the Blues. There are blue aliens, right?
//I mean, people think that, right? It's one of the standard races?

apistat: Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

There was another one "proving" it was Frank someone..hang on..."Frank Marshall Davis".

This is obviously false.

His real father was G!t-opnarth, the reptilian consul from Beta Aurigae.

boobsrgood: I have actually printed up these stickers and now go around to burger joints putting them on all the straw dispensers. I was well worth the $50.

Wow, seriously? I made that.

boomerzz

Helen Thomas has become a sad joke.

KarmicDisaster: Especially a male doctor, you would think that he would remember giving birth.

I imagine that's worse than kidney stones. Of course, reptilian hybrids are sort of snake shaped when they emerge, so maybe it wasn't so bad.

erewhon: Chuck Wagon: Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

He could have renounced his citizenship, or his mother could have renounced hers prior to delivery, and that would obviate this. Another one of the tortuous arguments from that birther site. I suspect it's at least technically true. In that case, you'd have to get proof from the State Department, or if he popped up with citizenship in a country that requires renunciation it would be "proof" that he had renounced. Sort of.

Wouldn't his mother have to first gain citizenship from another country? I could renounce citizenship right now, but since I still live in the U.S. and can't claim any other citizenship, it doesn't mean anything.

I love BIRTHER threads.

I love it that one of the leaders of the birthers is named ORLY Taitz. It's much like the fact that one of the biggest Shakespeare authorship cranks was named John Thomas LOONEY. The universe occasionally has a good sense of humor.

/O RLY?
//YA RLY!

Baby Diego: Helen Thomas has become a sad joke.

Integrity is a dangerous thing.

It's why Bukharin had to resist Stalin, even though he had no power to do so... and was killed for his trouble.

It's why Helen Thomas had to question the whole rigamarole... she was brave and courageous when she nettled the Bush Administration, but now she's a "sad joke".

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Why have you not released proof of your G.E.D. in Law? Your stubborn refusal is just perpetuating the issue.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

I'll just leave this here.

Jmast7: I'm actually kind of amazed Gibbs took a question from WND. Sure, you can laugh at him, but it's a complete waste of time.

I would take that question every day.

It's just shows America the right wings main voices are crazy loons.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

I know I shouldn't be responding to you, and it's pointless to bother, but I think it needs to be reinforced here.

He has responded. What was at first a quasi-legitimate concern, and a semi-fair question (even if it was just a veiled way of saying "no n*ggers in the white house") was answered succinctly, and honestly, and proved their theories had no basis in reality.

Every time it is addressed, the conspiracy gets deeper and deeper in the birfer's minds. The St. Pete Times does a better job of summing up the ridiculousness of the conspiracy in saying that the state DOH would have to place ads in two separate Hawaii newspapers announcing a native birth (placing the baby under jus soli citizenship, whether or not his parents were citizens) on the off chance that this one baby in hundreds of millions might eventually want to run for and become President of the United States.

In case you're wondering at the depth of the ridiculousness of that, in the year of Barack Obama's birth, 1961, the US population was 183,691,481 and growing. The Hawaii DOH would have to conspire to make one baby in a population of 183,691,481, plus the population growth of 35 years, the minimum age to be president, be eligible. Assuming no population growth over the period of eligibility, that's still only 0.000000544391059702981% chance he will ever attain that, predicted a minimum of 35 years in advance, hoping he attains qualifications, avoids an early death, etc.

That's one hell of a retarded conspiracy.

So why ridicule them? Because it is ridiculous. That's why. When you do something that is ridiculous, and I can't believe I have to point this out to you, it is inherently worthy of ridicule. Do you ask why we laud people who do laudable things, too?

AspectRatio: Wow, seriously? I made that.

And you, sir, kick major ass. Yes, and thank you. I'm going back to the printer for a second batch in a few days.

You are THAT creative.

KarmicDisaster: Especially a male doctor, you would think that he would remember giving birth.

The doctor is a seahorse, obviously.

Baby Diego: boomerzz

Helen Thomas has become a sad joke.

Where have you been for the last 10 years?

My father is a rabid, froth-jawed birther and it shames me to think I'm related, let alone descended, from anyone so ignorant and hateful, especially after the flap 8 1/2 years ago about "Sore/Loserman" and all that. I and most folks I know on the wrong side of that election stopped biatching about it once W was sworn in, got behind him, crossed our fingers and said "meh, how bad could he possibly be?"

\the horror
\\the horror

Please right wing, keep of the good worker of spending money on promoting yourselves as looking like tin foil hate crazies!!

You guys do better work help the Demos out than the DNC could ever do!!


Keep up the good work!!


And while I'm at it: remember Don't answer the census! It's being run by ACORN and is going to be used by Obama to round you up!!

To be a birther, not only do you have to convince yourself Obama is not American, you also must convince yourself that the most powerful people in the world have somehow made a mistake and allowed him to take over, and that you, a trailer trash loser has the true answer.

Random question about the supposed video of his grandma saying she saw him born in Kenya, are there any actual copies of this video for people to view, or like the "whitey" video has this only been seen by everyone's mother's cousin's coworker?

I like that the nutjobs are sticking with their campaign about Obama's birth certificate. It's a total waste of time and money on their part and it keeps them from doing something that might have an impact in reality. I wish Obama would 'accidentially' make a verbal slip-up about his time as a youth in Kenya or something similar to keep them going.

Vangor: Not too restrictive, but, in such an age where people in Washington state know what is happening in Washington D.C. a second after it occurs, what subterfuge could a foreign national actually perform which is more harmful than embroiling us in a five year military conflict?

Hey, buddy, get back to me in three years when you hear that ol' muezzin a'singin' from where Antioch Baptist used to be.

It's even harder to sing Adhan in Reptilian-1 than it is in Arabic.

Befuddled: I like that the nutjobs are sticking with their campaign about Obama's birth certificate. It's a total waste of time and money on their part and it keeps them from doing something that might have an impact in reality. I wish Obama would 'accidentially' make a verbal slip-up about his time as a youth in Kenya or something similar to keep them going.

I wish this were true. The Vince Foster murder thing kept the fringe boiling over for years.

Ahh the loony right wing. How could we forget some of these:


Remember when Bill Clinton was going to declare martial law?

Remember the "get whitey" video that is going to be released tomorrow? Honest? really?

How many times do you need to be lied to until you start thinking its bullshiat?

Chuck Wagon: Wouldn't his mother have to first gain citizenship from another country? I could renounce citizenship right now, but since I still live in the U.S. and can't claim any other citizenship, it doesn't mean anything.

Isn't that one of the birther theories? That she renounced for Indonesian citizenship?

I think you CAN just renounce, it's one of the things the no-tax nutters used to do; maybe they still do. It leaves you in a really oddball legal state though.

French Rage: Random question about the supposed video of his grandma saying she saw him born in Kenya, are there any actual copies of this video for people to view, or like the "whitey" video has this only been seen by everyone's mother's cousin's coworker?

There are a few copies uploaded to the Internet, but Obama's ACORN thugs constantly replace the video with footage of Rick Astley singing "Never Gonna Give You Up." Orly and I are still trying to figure out who's behind this dastardly conspiracy and what Astley's connection to it is!

Dr. Mojo PhD: That's one hell of a retarded conspiracy.

B-b-b-but skull and bones...

Corvus: Remember the "get whitey" video that is going to be released tomorrow? Honest? really?

Oh yeah... I had forgotten about that one.

apistat: Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

The best part of that theory is that she claimed that Obama was born in Seattle. Malcolm X was a US citizen. Dunham was a US citizen. Seattle--someone help me out here, what country is Seattle in?

So a man is born in the US to two US citizen parents.

OMG! He's not a US citizen! It's so obvious!

erewhon: Chuck Wagon: Wouldn't his mother have to first gain citizenship from another country? I could renounce citizenship right now, but since I still live in the U.S. and can't claim any other citizenship, it doesn't mean anything.

Isn't that one of the birther theories? That she renounced for Indonesian citizenship?

I think you CAN just renounce, it's one of the things the no-tax nutters used to do; maybe they still do. It leaves you in a really oddball legal state though.

The people who do it think it puts them in a weird legal state, but no one else does. The courts just ignore their crap and treat them like everyone else. It's just like the people who copyright their names and then sue everyone who prints their names. The cases get tossed almost as soon as their filed.

erewhon: Isn't that one of the birther theories? That she renounced for Indonesian citizenship?

Doesn't matter who renounced what. Jus soli guaranteed then, as it does now, that any child born on US soil was a US citizen.

From the XIV Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Both his mother and father could have announced they were Moon Men from the Planet X, and she pops him out of her vagoo in the Aloha State, the boy's a red-blooded American.

The_Gallant_Gallstone

It's why Helen Thomas had to question the whole rigamarole... she was brave and courageous when she nettled the Bush Administration, but now she's a "sad joke".

Yeah, she should keep fighting to bring back the glory days of a gallery of press people shouting over each other just to be ignored by the Administration regardless. Good times.

The Administration is controlling the press? Give me a farking break.

Corvus: Jmast7: I'm actually kind of amazed Gibbs took a question from WND. Sure, you can laugh at him, but it's a complete waste of time.

I would take that question every day.

It's just shows America the right wings main voices are crazy loons.

This. The 9/11 truthers weren't backed by The Huffinton Post or even Moveon. They were freelance loons. The Republicans have taken to mainstreaming their lunatics. And now the lunatics have taken control. I keep waiting for a somewhat reasonable fiscal conservative to challenge for control of the party, but all the contenders seem content to kiss Rush's ring. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in 15 or 20 years when the Republican party wakes up to find itself completely irrelevant.

Dr. Mojo PhD also hit it out of the park.

Renart: I love it that one of the leaders of the birthers is named ORLY Taitz. It's much like the fact that one of the biggest Shakespeare authorship cranks was named John Thomas LOONEY. The universe occasionally has a good sense of humor.

/O RLY?
//YA RLY!

Another of the birthers is a real Kreep

Corvus:

Remember when Bill Clinton was going to declare martial law?

He did.

When did you first start noticing all the cops in paramilitary drag, eh? When did they stop being Officer Friendly? When Billy boy signed that martial law declaration, that's when!

Well, buddy, little did you know it, but the cops are slowly being replaced by military. Brain-washed, child-killing, military. The entire Iraq thing was just to get them enough trigger time so that they'd be totally heartless, and well practiced.

Soon, very soon, you'll be rounded up and put in FEMA death camps. The Rothschilds and Bilderbergers are tired of people like you taking up room in their big US National Park that's coming. The reptilians like a nice tidy preserve.

/tacamars, man, tacamars
//follow them to the local FEMA camp, you'll see

These retards are just as bad as the morons that complianed that Bush never showed up for gaurd duty.

Why can't they see that?

I feel embarassed for them, becuase while the rest of the country is busy moving forward they will be gathering, scheming and distracting their idological brethren from actual important stuff.

emilyek_1: He's the son of a foreign national.

The inquiry is completely valid.

Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

Isn't it members of the Right who want Ahnold to be President? And he definitely not born in this country, amIright? So this is not a Leftist position, as you seem to think. It is the position of whatever minority party has an immigrant they want in office.

Dr. Mojo PhD: Jus soli guaranteed then, as it does now, that any child born on US soil was a US citizen.

Pfft. What makes you think he was born in Hawaii? There are none so blind as those who cannot see, sheeple-boy.

/What does it say about the citizenship of reptilian hybrids?

erewhon: Hey, buddy, get back to me in three years when you hear that ol' muezzin a'singin' from where Antioch Baptist used to be.

It's even harder to sing Adhan in Reptilian-1 than it is in Arabic.

What? I believe you're being sarcastic, but I don't know what about...

andrewagill: Renart: I love it that one of the leaders of the birthers is named ORLY Taitz. It's much like the fact that one of the biggest Shakespeare authorship cranks was named John Thomas LOONEY. The universe occasionally has a good sense of humor.

/O RLY?
//YA RLY!

Another of the birthers is a real Kreep

Haha, perfect!

House of Tards: c) You've got so many strawmen that you attack, it looks like you're being gangbanged in a cornfield.

I lol'd

My aunt and uncle are one of those people who question his birth. They sent me all the WND articles about it after I told them this was a stupid conspiracy.

/I also found out they don't believe in EVOLUTION :(

//Why, yes they are republicans.

Baby Diego: Yeah, she should keep fighting to bring back the glory days of a gallery of press people shouting over each other just to be ignored by the Administration regardless. Good times.

If you want to choose your questions beforehand, that's fine... just don't have the audacity to call that event a "town hall meeting".

Those "town hall meetings" were a crock when McCain ran them as a candidate... they're a crock now that Obama is running them as our President.

Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

*shrugs* I don't know? It got Obama elected in the first place.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)


Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?



Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

Chuck Wagon: The courts just ignore their crap and treat them like everyone else. It's just like the people who copyright their names and then sue everyone who prints their names. The cases get tossed almost as soon as their filed.

Just don't step into the "boat" at the admiralty court and they can't touch you. You obviously also need to renounce your corporate UCC identity, you know the one that's in all caps?

litmus tests for stupid do tend to have their conversational advantages.

So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

erewhon: Pfft. What makes you think he was born in Hawaii? There are none so blind as those who cannot see, sheeple-boy.

/What does it say about the citizenship of reptilian hybrids?

Well, I guess if they're hybrids they're part people, so they're still covered by Amendment XIV. I'm pretty sure the hybrids are ok. The actual full-on Reptilians might be in legal limbo though. I'm sure the Free Masons and the Illuminati, acting on behalf of the Majestic-12 liaison group for intergovernmental memorandums between Earth-based governments and the Empire of the Draco Constellation will be the eyes and ears until the Constitutional Amendments can be eroded; there's a reason the people who put the all-seeing eye on everything in America didn't write that gibberish into the Constitution, after all. Had to be added later, by subversive pro-human rebels who saw the TRUTH!

Doctor Funkenstein:

"I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement."

of course it does. it got obama elected, didn't it?

/but birthers are indeed a whole new level of retard

Vangor: erewhon: Hey, buddy, get back to me in three years when you hear that ol' muezzin a'singin' from where Antioch Baptist used to be.

It's even harder to sing Adhan in Reptilian-1 than it is in Arabic.

What? I believe you're being sarcastic, but I don't know what about...

You said a foreign national in the office of the President couldn't cause any real problems.

Keep thinking that - soon you'll be Mooslimated by force.

These threads are always good for beefing up my ignore list.

I need to check my Fark Monster Manual for the best weapons to use on trolls.

I love birthers.

Can't wait for the 2012 GOP primaries. I am hoping the batshiat crazy racist morans can force the GOP candidates to vocalize their support or rejection of the birther movement. If they reject the birthers it'll be like insulting Rush and the base will turn on them. If they support the birthers the rest of sane folks in America get to point and laugh at what retards they are.

Good times.

logruszed: Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?

No, no he won't. Christ please don't quote trolls I have on ignore.

He is really that stupid. Honest. Ask him about his degrees.

SundaesChild: Isn't it members of the Right who want Ahnold to be President?

Haha, good point.

The biggest problem is this gives justifications to nut jobs to do something crazy because in their eyes he is not the "real president".

anybody else remember the halcyon days when animal-human hybrids were topics for a state of the union address?

perhaps there's nuggets of knowledge on the eventuality of a lizard-people president in there somewhere.

StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

It'd be 1000000000x better than "President Sarah Palin".


shudder

erewhon: Chuck Wagon: The courts just ignore their crap and treat them like everyone else. It's just like the people who copyright their names and then sue everyone who prints their names. The cases get tossed almost as soon as their filed.

Just don't step into the "boat" at the admiralty court and they can't touch you. You obviously also need to renounce your corporate UCC identity, you know the one that's in all caps?

Thats just what the lizzard people want you to think.

tallguywithglasseson: Confronting conspiracy theorists with evidence doesn't help anything, any evidence presented is just considered further evidence of a deeper conspiracy.

Just ignore them, they're worthless wastes of life.



"Hey, what's up?"

Doctor Funkenstein: More than a year later, the debate continues to rage on the Internet among the "Birthers" movement

I don't think stupid qualifies as a movement.

Sure, it's something like a bowel movement.

mreuther: need to check my Fark Monster Manual for the best weapons to use on trolls.



Just use Troll Spray.

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Corvus: Remember the "get whitey" video that is going to be released tomorrow? Honest? really?

Oh yeah... I had forgotten about that one.

Yeah, that's what they count on.

They count on you forgetting them. If people remembered them all, now one would believe them.

Remember how in 1993 I think it was, they said that economic budget passed was going to DESTROY the US economy?


Just like they say that now, it's going to happen?

Yeah that didn't happen, in fact things did pretty well after that budget. The economy improved and the defecit went down.

PhiloBeddoe: tallguywithglasseson: Confronting conspiracy theorists with evidence doesn't help anything, any evidence presented is just considered further evidence of a deeper conspiracy.

Just ignore them, they're worthless wastes of life.

Yes, investigating a president who organized a break in is equal to investigating a president who provided birth records to people who refuse to believe they are birth records.

Your troll-fu is low.

"Hey, what's up?"

Teknowaffle: I am certain that he was born in the US There is no question about it. But I am surprised that you don't have to show a birth certificate before taking the oath to at lease someone.

When I joined the army a while back, I had to give my birth certificate to be a lowly E-4.

Shouldn't the commander in chief have to compile a similar packet of information?

You probably could have shown any one (or two) of a few documents. One being a birth certificate. A passport might have also sufficed.

But, never the less, you would NOT have had to show your original birth certificate and validated copy is probably all you actually showed them (and probably all you had, anyway).

The birthers are asking for the original document (which is no longer legally available). The copies we typically get for identification are not "good enough" for them.

Vital Records (Hawaii) (new window)

If what the birthers are saying is true, doesn't that mean the whole Republican Party is also in on the conspiracy? I don't hear any elected Republicans sounding off on this, demanding a formal investigation or something similar. So if the birthers believe this stuff, do they still wholeheartedly support the GOP?

erewhon: Keep thinking that - soon you'll be Mooslimated by force.

Damn, I just had my car detailed.

Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

andrewagill:
apistat: Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

The best part of that theory is that she claimed that Obama was born in Seattle. Malcolm X was a US citizen. Dunham was a US citizen. Seattle--someone help me out here, what country is Seattle in?

So a man is born in the US to two US citizen parents.

OMG! He's not a US citizen! It's so obvious!

Holy crap that blog is a bag of crazy. It's almost Time Cube crazy. Also, takes bloody forever to get to the point, by the time it springs the "revelation" no reader would give a crap if Obama's father was Shaka Zulu himself.

OKAY, FACTERS, HERE ARE THE FARKS:

Obama is the son of a Kenyan man and an American woman. That has been proven beyond all doubt.

It has been suggested his father was not a citizen at the time of the birth; that is irrelevant, his mother was an American and all you need is one American parent.

It has been suggested they were not lawfully married; again irrelevant. The mother's nationality was never in doubt, and being a bastard doesn't seem to disqualify anyone from public office, if what I see these days is any indication.

It has been suggested Barack was not born in the USA; that also does not matter. The son of an American is an American, people travel to foreign countries all the time, and some are pregnant and some give birth. Either way, the baby is American.

I do however notice one other thing: Barack has become a multi-millionaire, mainly through some highly questionable book deals, where he was paid millions to allow his name to be affixed to a ghost-writer's paid valentine.

Nobody reads these things, and no one takes them seriously. Hillary got $2 million for her "autobiography," even though her ghost-wrtier sued her when she stiffed the ghost for her pay. "Writing" a book for a preposterous sum is just a way of bribing someone respectably enlough that you can do it in public.

Nice lady, she even stiffs waitresses too, for as little a $5.

The Clintons have glommed $100 million that way, at least that we know of. Obama has only slopped up a few million of his own, but there is no question he is an American---and he's in someone's pocket.

The_Gallant_Gallstone

If you want to choose your questions beforehand, that's fine... just don't have the audacity to call that event a "town hall meeting".

Those "town hall meetings" were a crock when McCain ran them as a candidate... they're a crock now that Obama is running them as our President.

OK, then they shouldn't be called 'town hall meetings' and we're suddenly good? It seems obvious that someone holding a press event can dictate some level of structure. She's fighting the old battle because it shouldn't be called a 'town hall'?

Transparency in government rarely comes from the well-crafted messages during press events (Baghdad Bob being a popular example to the contrary). It comes from, well, transparency in government process, from public access to government reporting, from accountability. It doesn't come from the PR mouthpiece.

And that's why Helen Thomas is a sad joke. She's fighting for a concept that hasn't existed in decades. She's standing at the end of a PR machine, she's not an investigative reporter, she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

Baby Diego

she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

Sh*t, the most notable thing to happen in the White House press lately was a minefield of a question, submitted via email by Iranians, given by a blogger.

What does that say about the whole thing?

/yeah, I just replied to myself
//seemed relevant

AspectRatio: SundaesChild: Isn't it members of the Right who want Ahnold to be President?

Haha, good point.

God No! The Right despises Arnold, other than one speech he made at the 2004 Convention.

Baby Diego: And that's why Helen Thomas is a sad joke. She's fighting for a concept that hasn't existed in decades. She's standing at the end of a PR machine, she's not an investigative reporter, she (and the rest of that room) is damn near obsolete.

If it's near obsolete, shut it down. As long as Gibbs (or any obsolete "mouthpiece") holds the title of White House Press Secretary, what they say has the sanction of the President. It's not some MoveOn op-ed piece... it's an aspect of the Administration.

There's more to transparency than being a hardass to the Press Secretary... that is true. But challenging the government's official version of things is a part of the fight.

French Rage: Random question about the supposed video of his grandma saying she saw him born in Kenya, are there any actual copies of this video for people to view, or like the "whitey" video has this only been seen by everyone's mother's cousin's coworker?

Ah, yes, the infamous "why'd he have to be born in Hawaii?" video.

AspectRatio: StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

It'd be 1000000000x better than "President Sarah Palin".


shudder

They'd both be bad in such separate and distinct ways that it would be impossible to compare.

SkinnyHead's GED-fu is strong.

I wonder why people bother trying to discredit chain emails. I guess, really, that what I wonder is why people bother to read them to begin with. I did that once... its generic form was "powerful Navy ship vs. lighthouse". I actually explained to my "friend" (I don't talk to him anymore, pretty much because of the constant spewing of just that sort of crap) why the USS Coral Sea couldn't have been in that place at that time. He then insisted that maybe it was the "aircraft carrier Missouri". Ah, what fresh hell... anyway, my very long-time fascination with aircraft carriers paid off in a tiny way, but I felt stupider about winning that argument than about losing any other.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Its kinda of like racists. I personally like them to be loud and proud about it, it makes it easier to know that they are likely not worth my time. Having this linger out there helps keep them frothing over a non-issue, and the more they froth the more they draw attention to the fact that they are completely batshait insane.

He provided all the legal documentation he needed to.

SkinnyHead:
Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate.

well, actually HRS 338:18 (new window) seems to only deal with "certified copies" of vital documents.

SkinnyHead: Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Obama isn't claiming any of this. It's just being pointed out to you as a fact. Obama publicly released the only document Hawaii currently issues. Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

This much is also clear: this quest has nothing to do with finding out the truth. It is all about harassing someone you don't like very much.

patrick767: You can't cure stupid, Gibbs. These morons don't deserve a response and it won't phase them. Give it up.

You can't cure stupid, but you sure can hammer it into shape.

Chuck Wagon: Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

Not true.

I'm a natural born US citizen. My wife is Chinese. If our child is born in China, there are some hoops I have to jump through in order for the child to be a US citizen.

It's not difficult to do the paperwork, but there is paperwork involved.

Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

Yes, late-night comedy talk show writers.

logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

heap: anybody else remember the halcyon days when animal-human hybrids were topics for a state of the union address?

Which sitting president said: "...how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries ..."

He was trying to break free of the hypnotic imprinting he'd gotten from the reptilians at Dulce.

magores: Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

huh uh.

according to fark you are.

magores: Chuck Wagon: Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

Not true.

I'm a natural born US citizen. My wife is Chinese. If our child is born in China, there are some hoops I have to jump through in order for the child to be a US citizen.

It's not difficult to do the paperwork, but there is paperwork involved.

Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non U.S. citizen parent on or after November 14, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. citizen parent may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years, at least two years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen. This period of physical presence must have taken place prior to the birth of the child.

PenguinTheRed: Even if there is anything to this, how can anybody possibly think that invalidating the election would in any way be a good idea? Whatever rioting and mayhem you could picture, at the very least it would put Biden in the Oval Office, which should send chills down anybody's spine.

And Nancy Pelosi as VP?

Come to think of it, I've never seen any other President's birth certificate.

On the other hand, since Obama put his birth certificate online, its probably one of the most publicized birth certificates in history.

It is therefore ironic that the Birthers keep claiming that Obama hasn't met the standards of proof of citizenship. The fact is, they're demanding a higher standard of proof than has ever been demanded of any President in history.

SkinnyHead: Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

What would be his tangible interest in obtaining it? Just to attempt to pacify some nutters? (Who would undoubtedly find fault with it anyway)

He's proven his citizenship with a document that clearly states that is is "prima facia evidence" in "any court proceeding"

The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.
Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament" -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None

Illinois Bar Records -- Not released.
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

SkinnyHead: logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

Are you completely stupid? Did you not see this?

Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

Didn't 9/11 happen so the proof of Obama's Kenyan/Muslim birth by an Iraqi Al-Qaeda doctor would be destroyed?

olddinosaur: I do however notice one other thing: Barack has become a multi-millionaire, mainly through some highly questionable book deals, where he was paid millions to allow his name to be affixed to a ghost-writer's paid valentine.

Please tell me you are one of the nutjobs who believes Bill Ayers ghost wrote Dreams from My Father. Oh, pretty please. Those people may be even crazier than the birthers as their standard for proof is even lower (Ayers and Obama both use terms like fog, mist, ships, seas, boats and ocean in their writing). Maybe Captain Crunch ghost wrote for both of them!

To my knowledge, there is no evidence either of Obama's books were ghost written.

Lol, people still try to talk to Skinneyhead?

There's no point.

Renart: I love it that one of the leaders of the birthers is named ORLY Taitz. It's much like the fact that one of the biggest Shakespeare authorship cranks was named John Thomas LOONEY. The universe occasionally has a good sense of humor.

/O RLY?
//YA RLY!



Birtherdom's own nitrous-huffing dentist/lawyer/crackpot.......

Overfiend: C'mon people. Get over it. Obama is our president, like it or not.

/didn't vote for Obama
//Can't we all just get along?

/I can think of 59,934,814 people that I can get along with.... the rest... can rot in hell! :)

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.
Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament" -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None

Illinois Bar Records -- Not released.
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

Had not heard that one yet.

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Troll or just stupid?

Befuddled: Didn't 9/11 happen so the proof of Obama's Kenyan/Muslim birth by an Iraqi Al-Qaeda doctor would be destroyed?

I'm sure I saw that somewhere!

/possibly in this very post, but it's a good one and I'm'a gonna run with it!

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

The law does not require disclosure of:

Records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
[Haw. Rev. Stat. § 92F-13(1)]

I'm not an anti-Obama tard, I voted for him because I thought he had the better team behind him. Nor do I believe he's a Kenyan born person, regardless he was born of an American mother so by virtue he is a citizen.

However, I do think the "real" birth certificate is misleading. It's not the original version, it's an "official copy". That's why it looks so neat and made circa 2008.

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

When you're cutting and pasting crap from somebody's blog, at least try to include the links. It makes it easier to laugh at the "proof".

Dragonsbreath: Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15

I've heard the claim about the $1000,000 spent on attorneys to fight this issue in the courts, but I have yet to see anyone produce any credible documentation that it is true. Links?

Every Judge so far has laughed these cases out of court. Obama hasn't needed to spend millions to fight against them.

Also, it is my understanding that the $15 fee will get you the exact copy that Obama posted online.

magores: Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

And you would be wrong.

Politispin--I can smell it quite easily.

TheRedMonkey: Had not heard that one yet.

James von Brunn listed it in his Obama is missing! (pops) thread at Free Republic. Come to think of it, Dragonsbreath's list is suspiciously similar to von Brunn's. Hmmmmm. We might have another lunatic, white supremacist menace on our hands.


/hot

wmoonfox
He won; get over it.

If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky ?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?

If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word advice would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe?

If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how he is inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

Hmmmm?

Dragonsbreath: Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.

Completely made up number.

/the talking point is 2million btw - didn't you get the memo?

SkinnyHead: Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

It's not his excuse, it's my legal explanation, among many others. He doesn't need an excuse, because the vast majority of Americans think this whole thing is bullshiat and don't care, and the majority of voters elected him president, which he legally is.

HOWEVER...

§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR ANY PERSON TO PERMIT INSPECTION OF, OR TO DISCLOSE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN VITAL STATISTICS RECORDS.

Not hard to farking grok.

Meh. I love the "conspiracy" accusers who simply want this to go away... it's rather like the 2000 election... only the people asking for a 700th recount are the ones asking for this little conspiracy to die a quick, press-free death. :) I love conspiracy theories. :) It's the theorists who like to point fingers so quickly after they hid their own tinfoil hats...

/didn't vote for the douchebag or turd sandwich...
//voted for Bob Barr... (and before that Ron Paul)
///let the pitchforking to begin in 3...2....

SkinnyHead: Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

When you request a copy of your birth certificate from the state of Hawaii, they give you the EXACT document he has already published. They do not give out the documents you are asking him to make public. Not for him or anyone. They stopped giving out the longer birth certificates long before Obama ran for anything. What part of that is difficult to understand?

Why has no-one asked to see the list of 400,000 people who have signed the petition.

Surely if the list existed it would be easy to post online.

Then we could really discuss the movement

RemyDuron: Lol, people still try to talk to Skinneyhead?

There's no point.

Yes there is. It's on top of Skinny's shaven head.

/nice suspenders.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

You don't even acknowledge evidence supporting one of the best proven theories in science. Why would you accept his birth certificate as evidence?

Just wait till The Birthers get wind of this e-mail thats going around. I know I'm late to the party with it but I just wanted to try out my trol-fu
----------------------------------------

More questions about Obama's eligibility to be President, and this time some good questions.. very interesting!

While I've little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth
issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can
be resolved by Obama answering one simple question: What passport did he
use when he was shuttling between New York, Jakarta, and Karachi?

So how did a young man who arrived in New York in
early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket,
suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month
later? And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York,
Jakarta, and Karachi, what passport was he offering when he passed
through Customs and Immigration? The American people not only deserve
to have answers to these questions, they must have answers.


It makes the debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.

Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
A: Yes, by his own admission.
Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities.

1. He traveled with a U.S. Passport,
2) He traveled with a British passport, or

3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.
Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a US. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was
traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

If he was traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he
was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he
was traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he
relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American,
prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he
managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008..
Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as illustrated by his
speech before Congress and the disastrous spending plan he has presented
to Congress, the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the better.

Count me in as one of those inquiring minds who would at
least like to know the answers to these easily answered (by Obama) questions.

Milton Thrasher

GomezAdams: If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

Um, Rick Wagoner didn't have to resign just because Obama said. Furthermore, Bush made numerous decisions that most believe was in violation of the Constitution. This isn't a BUT BUT BUT Bush, I think GW did a lot of good things, hell I've hung out with him a few times.

What I am saying is choose your arguments more carefully.

GomezAdams: If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?

Um, he held hands with him.

SkinnyHead:

Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

SupremeLeader: Can anyone in this thread give me a single reason why Obama should release any records because a group who actively hate him want him to do so?

Anyone? Anyone?

You know, when they ignore you the first five or six times, it's a sign they're not going to respond.

SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Because the "400,000" are racist idiots that deserved to be ridiculed. You're included in that list.

SupremeLeader: Can anyone in this thread give me a single reason why Obama should release any records because a group who actively hate him want him to do so?

Anyone? Anyone?

Any reason is irrelevant. What he can put out there under Hawaii law, he has.

Now, I pride myself on being non-partisan and non-judgmental, but anybody pursuing this is an idiot and I think the vast majority of Americans - regardless of political persuasion - would agree with me.

fuzzy409: A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Ohhh its already part of the Birther argument. But like most of their arguments - there is no truth to it. The US State Department had no ban to travel to Pakistan in 1981. All you needed was a visa.

Dragonsbreath: Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)

ZOMG!11!!! Why won't Obama release his Kindergarten records???

Because they will prove that he is an anarchist who consistently colored outside the lines and that he won't be satisfied until he completely destroys the US Government.

zabadu: magores: Chuck Wagon: Jim_Callahan: Man, I never thought I'd compliment truthers, but at least their conspiracy is about something relatively important.

What is so stupid about the entire birth certificate, his mother was born in Kansas. Because his mother was a citizen, no matter where Obama was born he would be a natural born citizen.

It's like arguing that the moon is really made of cheese. It's just incredibly stupid.

Not true.

I'm a natural born US citizen. My wife is Chinese. If our child is born in China, there are some hoops I have to jump through in order for the child to be a US citizen.

It's not difficult to do the paperwork, but there is paperwork involved.

Point is.... You are not a citizen just because one of your parents was.

Child born in wedlock to one U.S. citizen parent and one non U.S. citizen parent on or after November 14, 1986: A child born outside of the United States to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-U.S. citizen parent may be entitled to citizenship providing the U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years, at least two years of which were after s/he reached the age of fourteen. This period of physical presence must have taken place prior to the birth of the child.

Thank you for proving my point.

More detail....

If the child was born between 12/24/1952 and 11/13/1986

--If both parents are U.S. citizens, at least one resided in the U.S. before the child's birth.

--If one parent is a U.S. citizen, the U.S. citizen parent must have resided in the U.S. for 10 years, at least 5 of which were after age 14.

mechafenris: Meh. I love the "conspiracy" accusers who simply want this to go away... it's rather like the 2000 election... only the people asking for a 700th recount are the ones asking for this little conspiracy to die a quick, press-free death. :) I love conspiracy theories. :) It's the theorists who like to point fingers so quickly after they hid their own tinfoil hats...

/didn't vote for the douchebag or turd sandwich...
//voted for Bob Barr... (and before that Ron Paul)
///let the pitchforking to begin in 3...2....

Those are all technically sentences, but I have zero idea where you are headed with any of that.

zabadu: The law does not require disclosure of:

Records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
[Haw. Rev. Stat. § 92F-13(1)]

So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

SkinnyHead: So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

Obama isn't claiming shiat. He doesn't have to claim shiat. This birther bullshiat has gone nowhere. I'm simply explaining to you some of the legal reasons.

So... do you have any actual response to my previous question?

Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

yeah, the same "Leftists" that swore McCain wasn't elligible either because he was born in Panama during the construction of the canal...it was US territory until the canal was fininshed.

There's idiots on all sides and this isn't a right or left issue, dumbass.

All of these farking people need to EABOD.

andrew131: I'm not an anti-Obama tard, I voted for him because I thought he had the better team behind him. Nor do I believe he's a Kenyan born person, regardless he was born of an American mother so by virtue he is a citizen.

However, I do think the "real" birth certificate is misleading. It's not the original version, it's an "official copy". That's why it looks so neat and made circa 2008.

An. Official. Copy. Has. The. Same. Authority. As. The. Original.

You can't get the original. What you get is an official copy.

SkinnyHead: zabadu: The law does not require disclosure of:

Records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
[Haw. Rev. Stat. § 92F-13(1)]

So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

Really? Where is he claiming that?

i don't see a real reason why he doesn't actually release the records to the public like everybody else does, instead of putting up a farking jpeg that people can analyze to hell and back and still never prove beyond a shadow of a doubt whether its legit or not.

its not like proving the fools wrong by releasing the documents they say will prove he isn't a citizen would have any negative consequences. its a pretty immature argument to go with 'i shouldn't have to, i won't even dignify it with a response'. just release the damn thing and you will make everyone who questioned it look like an idiot immediately.

unless of course you're lying, then you would probably want to quash the records and order them sealed indefinitely....wait a minute...

bravian: fuzzy409: A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Ohhh its already part of the Birther argument. But like most of their arguments - there is no truth to it. The US State Department had no ban to travel to Pakistan in 1981. All you needed was a visa.

Not to mention that passports are good for what, 12 years? It's entirely possible his mom got him a passport up to 12 years before he traveled.

SkinnyHead: zabadu: The law does not require disclosure of:

Records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
[Haw. Rev. Stat. § 92F-13(1)]

So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

I've heard that at Obama's secret Muslim birth in Kenya, Karl Malden was there to witness it (Malden was part of the global conspiracy, how else could he make it as an actor) and that Malden was finally going to come forward with the truth so Obama had him silenced.

Fart_Machine: The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

You just nailed the "thought process" of every conspiracy theorist in history.

Evidence to the contrary? It's all part of "The Conspiracy".

spleef420: emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

yeah, the same "Leftists" that swore McCain wasn't elligible either because he was born in Panama during the construction of the canal...it was US territory until the canal was fininshed.

There's idiots on all sides and this isn't a right or left issue, dumbass.

All of these farking people need to EABOD.

I have never seen anyone claim that. I've seen a lot of people joke about it in response to the Obama birth certificate controversy, but I've never seen anyone say "John McCain is not eligible because he was born in Panama." I've seen people ask why he was eligible if he was born in Panama (two US parents and technically on US soil at the time). I'd bet there was someone out there who believed that, but to imply that they are at all as numerous or vocal as the birthers is ridiculous.

sabyJeBus: i don't see a real reason why he doesn't actually release the records to the public like everybody else does

Such as?

Who are "everybody else"?

spleef420: Fart_Machine: The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

You just nailed the "thought process" of every conspiracy theorist in history.

Evidence to the contrary? It's all part of "The Conspiracy".

Which of course means that any document to come through or anywhere near those channels are immediately suspect.

sabyJeBus: i don't see a real reason why he doesn't actually release the records to the public like everybody else does, instead of putting up a farking jpeg that people can analyze to hell and back and still never prove beyond a shadow of a doubt whether its legit or not.

I do. It's illegal to do so. And factcheck.org was able to analyze the physical copy of it. So in short, you're an idiot.

andrew131:

"I'm not an anti-Obama tard, I voted for him because I thought he had the better team behind him. Nor do I believe he's a Kenyan born person, regardless he was born of an American mother so by virtue he is a citizen.

However, I do think the "real" birth certificate is misleading. It's not the original version, it's an "official copy". That's why it looks so neat and made circa 2008."

I got my oldest son's birth certificate out to register him for kindergarten. Later, my younger son scribbled on it with crayon. Fast forward 11 years, I need the birth certificate again to get my oldest son his driver's license. So I head down the county records department, pay the fee and get another copy. Is my son less of a U.S. citizen because he only has an official copy of his birth certificate and not the original?

SkinnyHead: So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

No. I don't think he's even paying attention to conspiracy nuts like yourself.

printboy: Obama did release his birth certificate....

You just can't see it....

It's Transparent !!!!

Tell us how KOS stands for Keith Olbermann Show. I never get tired of that.

RemyDuron: spleef420: emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

yeah, the same "Leftists" that swore McCain wasn't elligible either because he was born in Panama during the construction of the canal...it was US territory until the canal was fininshed.

There's idiots on all sides and this isn't a right or left issue, dumbass.

All of these farking people need to EABOD.

I have never seen anyone claim that. I've seen a lot of people joke about it in response to the Obama birth certificate controversy, but I've never seen anyone say "John McCain is not eligible because he was born in Panama." I've seen people ask why he was eligible if he was born in Panama (two US parents and technically on US soil at the time). I'd bet there was someone out there who believed that, but to imply that they are at all as numerous or vocal as the birthers is ridiculous.

It was going around quite a bit in the months leading up to the election. Once conservatives realized the McCain (thanks entirely to Palin) had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the election they started the same whargarble against Obama.

printboy: Obama did release his birth certificate....

You just can't see it....

It's Transparent !!!!

Much like your brain, or Mark Sanford's fidelity.

Fart_Machine: SkinnyHead: zabadu: The law does not require disclosure of:

Records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.
[Haw. Rev. Stat. § 92F-13(1)]

So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

and the whole thing is even if he was born in Kenya, if the State of Hawaii says he is good. Then he is good, case closed.

They really don't care about the logic of it, they just want some excuse to illegitimate his presidency and because he is black it makes it convenient to them to not think of him as a "real American".

GomezAdams: wmoonfox
He won; get over it.

If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky ?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?

If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word advice would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe?

If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how he is inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

Hmmmm?

Wouldn't have cared.

Wouldn't have cared.

Wouldn't have cared.

Would have been funny.

Not applicable, Obama's cabinet and circle of advisors aren't "filled" with such people.

Would have been expected and funny.

Not applicable, as Obama answers questions in his press conferences on the fly. And unlike W, he actually answers most of the questions. Then again, I'd have approved if W used a teleprompter to get through a press conference because, assuming he could actually read it, it might lead to an answer that didn't sound like it came from a retarded fifth grader.

Would have loved it. Might have shown that Bush had some interest in stemming the coming economic disaster.

Now I have a few questions I'd love for you to answer...

Would it take you more or less than 24 hours to call for the impeachment and subsequent execution of a Democrat if they led us into a war on false pretenses?

Do you believe in dinosaurs?

Do you know what fiscal responsibility is and do you think George W. Bush practiced it?

Do you know that 40 years from now, Republicans spewing their gay hate will look like the folks chanting "2, 4, 6, 8, we don't want to integrate?"

Bloody William: printboy: Obama did release his birth certificate....

You just can't see it....

It's Transparent !!!!

Tell us how KOS stands for Keith Olbermann Show. I never get tired of that.


This thread wouldn't be complete without me reminding you guys the following....

Daily Keith Olbermann Show
was created for and by MSNBCu (GE - NBC) in cooperation with Keith Olbermann to have an outlet for "contradiction and validation" (oxymoron) to hype his propaganda.

/Just thought you may want to know.
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


Hey Bartender.... Another round of Kool-Aid for all my Liberal Friends!!!!

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

Short answer, which you've been told several times before:

The "original" birth certificate cannot be released under Hawaii statute 338:18. Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

The certificate of live birth he released is valid in the eyes of the law, and serves are prima facie evidence of his natural birth, which means unless there is strong, specific evidence to indicate otherwise, it will hold up without question.

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health issued a statement saying that yes, the original certificate does exist, and yes, it is valid. That statement has been backed up by the governor of Hawaii.

With all of these in mind, there is only one conclusion I can reach:

There is absolutely no legal way for Obama to "prove" his natural citizenship to the birthers. The way they are demanding is illegal according to Hawaii state law and every attempt to convince them previously has fallen on utterly deaf ears. The COLB, the statement from the Hawaii DoB, the newspaper birth announcement, all of these are overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the vast majority of Americans, and according to the various rulings over the last few months by birther nuts trying to make this a legal issue, overwhelming evidence in the eyes of the law.

Obama cannot do anything to prove that he was born in America and still uphold the law in the eyes of the birthers. Fortunately, with the exception of that exceedingly shrill and willfully ignorant vocal minority, that doesn't farking matter.

Is that really Obama's lame excuse? Is he really trying to claim that original birth certificates are so secret under Hawaii law that he himself cannot legally obtain and publicize a copy of it?

Nothing in the law you cited (HRS §338-18) specifically prohibits a person from obtaining and publicizing his own original birth certificate. Instead, it says that someone with "direct and tangible interest in the record" can obtain it. That would be Obama.

Obama also has the legal right to access the document under Hawaii's Open Records Law, namely HRS §92F-21, which gives individuals the right to access their own personal records.

The claim that state law prohibits Obama himself from getting his own original birth certificate is absurd. The fact that he and/or his toadies would go to such lengths -- inventing absurd interpretations of state law as a ridiculous excuse for not releasing the document -- makes the whole thing seem much more suspicious.

They still aren't going to take the original out of the vault and send it to him. They'll send him a copy which is right where we are now.

Fart_Machine: The State of Hawaii has already confirmed his birth certificate. So you're saying that it's part of the conspiracy as well?

Well they do got teh ghey marriage there!!!1!!!

sabyJeBus: i don't see a real reason why he doesn't actually release the records to the public like everybody else does, instead of putting up a farking jpeg that people can analyze to hell and back and still never prove beyond a shadow of a doubt whether its legit or not.

its not like proving the fools wrong by releasing the documents they say will prove he isn't a citizen would have any negative consequences. its a pretty immature argument to go with 'i shouldn't have to, i won't even dignify it with a response'. just release the damn thing and you will make everyone who questioned it look like an idiot immediately.

unless of course you're lying, then you would probably want to quash the records and order them sealed indefinitely....wait a minute...

I wish there was some way to biatch slap someone through the internets. You people are too stupid to live.

I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.

O RLY?? Do you have proof that he's spent "greater than $1,000,000" in lawyers fees. Particularly since most of the cases have been against state officials NOT Obama directly, and in one of the few cases that Obama's lawyers were acting directly (Keyes v Bowen) they were working pro se??

Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit

Claimed to be counterfeit based on the claims of two faceless, nameless internet "experts", namely "Polarik" and "TechDude". No real document expert has come forth claiming it's a counterfeit. Even Sandra Lines said the same thing Dr. Neil Krawetz said in proving Polarik wrong.

Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

No proof such an adoption look place. Even if it had, it wouldn't have affected Obama's US citizenship since under US law he could not renounce his US citizenship as a minor, and under Indonesian law he was too old to gain Indonesian citizenship via adoption.

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)

You mean the same record that gives his birthplace as Honolulu, Hawaii?

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit

Again, based on the claim of nameless, faceless internet "experts". No real evidence to support this claim, and even Debbie Stossel has backed off on it.

Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

Considering that the birthers have yet to come up with anything even close to credible evidence, what I wonder is how anyone could believe their tripe.

printboy:
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


But you can't trust Churchill. His mother was a foreign national, and he never showed his birf certificate!

I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. My family will start talking to me again, and chances are, my ex-wife will want to renew the marriage vows she broke when I started spouting conservative opinions.
I'd like to be a liberal because it's ever so much easier to allow others to form my opinions for me instead of researching an issue myself. That always gets me in trouble, especially when the facts I discover diverge from the latest politically correct consensus.
I'd like to be a liberal because then I'd be rewarded for all my shortcomings and nothing would ever be my fault. I'd be an important cog in the wheel of social justice, and a cherished warrior in the current fight for equality.

GomezAdams: wmoonfox
He won; get over it.

If George W. Bush... ..etc.

No, I wouldn't have approved, I don't even approve of most of the things on your cherry picked list of outrage now. But you would, if it had been Bush or McCain, and you would have told me to get over it.

So get over it, he won.

Well, I'm satisfied. This thread hasn't just gone full-retard, it's gone extra super deluxe supreme retard with fries.

If I were a liberal, I would be free to have sex whenever and with whomever I want - and be considered 'empowered' to boot. I could abort any inconvenience with nary a thought because my rights to my body trump the life I would have suctioned out of me.


I'd like to be a liberal because any guilt I would normally feel for what used to be considered deviant, irresponsible behavior may be assuaged by merely advocating the expenditure of other people's money on whatever the cause du jour is. Very cool. Especially since my stock portfolio has been pretty much decimated.


I want to be a liberal because they care so much. They have a lock on all the fashionable emotions, like tolerance, diversity, equality and patriotism. And as long as my intentions are pure and I 'care', I won't have to accept responsibility for any negative consequences that my actions might cause.


I'd like to be a liberal because everyone knows that conservatives are racist, homophobic, stupid and, well, beneath contempt. Conservatives are motivated by gasp, profit, instead of being nice. Enough said.


I'd like to be a liberal because I'd be able to redefine reality to my own specifications. I could turn failure into success, murder into choice, lies into 'misstatements', and theft into investment. I would automatically be considered wise, instead of opinionated. Best of all, I could make up the rules as I go along, change them in midstream and then demonize anyone who doesn't agree with me.

SkinnyHead: Evidence of huffing

Look. The article that is posted at the top of the thread has:

In researching the story, he went to the microfilm archives and found the birth announcement for Obama. Actually, he found two of them, one in his Honululu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin the next day. They both said the same thing: "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Highway, son, Aug. 4."

But here's the thing. Newspaper officials he checked with confirmed those notices came from the state Department of Health.

So stop with your "what is he hiding?" crap, unless you think that this is a conspiracy that the Dept. of Public Health has been in on since 1961.

That goes for the rest of you conspiracy minded froth-buckets as well.

Stop playing the concern troll and state why you don't find this relevant, yet the fact that you don't know who his mother's gynecologist was to be a matter of great importance.

Bloody William: Well, I'm satisfied. This thread hasn't just gone full-retard, it's gone extra super deluxe supreme retard with fries.


Want a shake with dat ?

LesserEvil: This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

NOTHING would dispel their concerns. ALL a birth certificate is is a record, and I don't see why that being in a computer system or actual physical paper would make a big difference. They can't release the original, and even if it did it would provide no additional proof because they released an official copy which is just as much proof as the original.

Dear lord I hope I just got trolled, because if someone can type that well but is still so completely oblivious as to think the birthers have any rational basis for their arguments. . .

printboy: I want to be a liberal..../i>

We don't want you, you're too much of a dick.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

look closer at the document...see where it says "City, Town or location of birth"? See below that where it says "Honolulu"? Where is this "Honolulu"? Hawaii, correct? DOB 1961...well after Hawaii became a state.

citizen.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

Bestbank Tiger: They still aren't going to take the original out of the vault and send it to him. They'll send him a copy which is right where we are now.

Even if they released the "original", it wouldn't be authentic - everyone knows he flew back to Hawaii to personally fabricate a phony one. So, since they have already doctored the original, and have nothing to hide, why won't they release it? Why not? They can just mail it to someone's house, you know, with a little note that, after you examine it, mail it to some other guy's house. Like an "I'm A Legitimate President" chain letter.

/birthers are idiots

fuzzy409: 3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.
Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a US. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Incorrect. The New York Times even had a travel article for Pakistan in 1981, and state department guidelines for Pakistan only said where to get a visa and how long it would last.

There is no evidence to support such a claim, and the State Department themselves have said there was no travel ban.

Try again.

Ant: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

in the overall sense and not just in this case? yes.

TheMadChaosopher: Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

"CITY, TOWN, OR LOCATION OF BIRTH: HONOLULU"

Shut. The. fark. Up.

Lenny_da_Hog: printboy:
//Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is. Sir Winston Churchill


But you can't trust Churchill. His mother was a foreign national, and he never showed his birf certificate!

His mother was my great-great-great-great Aunt. She was from Rochester, NY. Classy lady.

printboy: I'd like to be a liberal because it's ever so much easier to allow others to form my opinions for me instead of researching an issue myself.

Oh, the irony. Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh would like to have word with you. You are a moran.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

As for the linked article, well, I'm glad they put everybody straight. I just think it might be more effective than just sticking your tongue out, going "nyah nyah, liar, liar pants on fire" and maybe trying to present, you know, some sort of actual demonstrable proof.

In short, the image above is not proof of anything, anymore than the title of my car is somehow proof it was made in Michigan. It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems - when that data was entered, what context, and by who is entirely unknown. Any record entered in 1961 was likely not to have the sort of trail data might (operative word here, because most large scale databases simply don't have data trails, still) - MIGHT - tell us if the information is legitimate.

If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

/Steps back into the shadows

This document proves Obama's birth in Hawaii in 1961 for all legal purposes. Obama need produce no other document, and the sole reason he was asked to produce even this document for public inspection is because those doing the asking are racists. We don't want to shut them up, because we like it when racists out themselves.

printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me.

I've seen your posts. Your political views have nothing to do with why people don't like you.

SkinnyHead: So now Obama's claiming that he can't get a copy of his own birth certificate under Hawaii's Open Records Law because it would invade his own personal privacy. The excuses keep getting stranger and stranger.

He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

To date, I've never seen a birther address the statement issued by the Hawaii Department of Health's director regarding the validity of the birth certificate. Ever.

Argh2: printboy: I want to be a liberal..../i>

We don't want you, you're too much of a dick.


And I care....because????

If Obama was actually born in the USA he would build a time machine and take me back to prove it.

I don't know how you Obama worshipers can be so gullible.

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

Part of the deal with the grays after Roswell was technology transfer and one of the things gained from that was laser printers. The Trilateral Commission and the Iluminati kept that to themselves for as long as they could.

printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

magores: --If one parent is a U.S. citizen, the U.S. citizen parent must have resided in the U.S. for 10 years, at least 5 of which were after age 14.

Another birther argument - the law was amended and made retroactive.

Befuddled: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

Part of the deal with the grays after Roswell was technology transfer and one of the things gained from that was laser printers. The Trilateral Commission and the Iluminati kept that to themselves for as long as they could.

True. And patents on laser printers, microwave ovens, and cell phones pay for the MiB organization that keeps them in line.

Elmo Jones: printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

Unfortunately, it's illegal to do so. Too bad, so sad. What about the newspaper ad announcing his birth?

printboy: Elmo Jones: printboy: I want to be a liberal, because then everyone will like me. ...TMWG

No, they still won't like you. Your brand of stupid and crazy isn't funny, wacky, zany, outrageous, kooky, or any of the fun words that one might apply to insanity.

Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

oops you're

Obama was not born, he was created inside a top secret laboratory in the secluded wilderness of Alaska.

i thought this had been cleared up?

SkinnyHead: Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

So, then, it's cool for Obama to usurp state sovereignty and order HI to change its vital statistics process. What an extraordinary right-wing position.

SkinnyHead: I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

You accepted their word "at first" and think their word is "probably trustworthy."

If their word is in doubt, then any document to come from them is suspect. Which means any birth certificate from Hawaii Obama would offer (you know, besides the COLB he has already put out) would also be suspect.

Now, 338:18 is not a "lame and ridiculous excuse." If you think the state's department of health director and governor are trustworthy, then you should not what the former farking said: (PDF)

State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

So... if the state itself is suspect. If the director of the state's department of health is suspect. If these people are incorrect in the interpretation of their own state's laws and regulations, why the fark would you accept a birth certificate to come from them?

spleef420: emilyek_1: Also, it's precisely the kind of thing that Leftists would feel it was OK to lie about or obfuscate, since having to be born in the United States to be President is just too restrictive and Far Right a notion.

yeah, the same "Leftists" that swore passed a Senate Resolution stating that McCain wasn't elligible either because he was born in Panama during the construction of the canal...it was US territory until the canal was fininshed.

There's idiots on all sides and this isn't a right or left issue, dumbass.

All of these farking people I need to EABOD.

Linky

printboy: Says you .... I'm rubber.... your glue....

His glue what? Your grammar is atrocious!

SkinnyHead: I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

Oh - how cute ...

LesserEvil:
In short, the image above is not proof of anything

Look at the bottom of the picture you just posted, idiot. It's the sentence with "PROOF" in it.


Afterwards, show us YOUR original birth certificate.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request.

Based on what, exactly?

I want to be a liberal because everyone knows they hold the moral high ground. They don't lie, cheat or steal. Oh, and they don't condone torture. The media says so, so it must be true.


Before I am able to join this community of man, however, there are a few ground rules:


I have to acknowledge that government is the best and only solution for any problems America has. Despite the fact that pretty much every government solution to date has been a disaster.


I must agree that America is bad and white Christian males are responsible for all that is wrong with the world. Further, I must agree that terrorists and third world dictators are either freedom fighters or misunderstood men of good will. Oh, and I must acknowledge that dialogue is better than war. Even though decades of dialogue haven't worked, things are different, now that Obama is president. I must have faith. After all, the times, they are a changin'.


I'd, of course, be expected to not only condone, but happily embrace gay marriage and the long list of newly minted sexual behaviors, and swear to never mention the adverse health risks or the proven harm they do to traditional families.


I'd also have to quit judging people (except for conservatives). After all, liberals will allow me to do whatever I want, free from moral censure, and its only fair I do the same for them.

Not a single wing nutter has explained exactly how the announcements got into the papers.

This Honolulu Advertiser announcement of Barack Obama's Aug 4, 1961 birth was published August 13, 1961, page B-6,

Here's the copy of the microfilm.



Any birther who wanted to, can go to Honolulu and see it themselves. The real truth is, they don't want to know.

If you want to see the page. Link (new window)

For the love of god, conspiracy theorists. He was born in hawaii. Even if he wasn't, he's still better than bush or mccain, and frankly the president just ends up being a figurehead anyway. Be more worried about what your congressman is doing..

For anyone who is honestly wondering why Obama doesn't release this, not a conspiracy freak, look no farther than Dragonsbreath's post.

It doesn't matter what he releases, they will always want more. Always. He is by god a sekret muslin from Kenya and these people are the only ones who see through the lies!

What you guys need are more white muslims.

Right? Maybe not.

printboy: If I were a liberal, I would be free to have sex whenever and with whomever I want

*shakes ACLU card* I want to have sex with Scarlett Johansson right now.

Nope, doesn't work.

PatGund: Considering that the birthers have yet to come up with anything even close to credible evidence.

Hey wait, isn't that just what they are asking for? You are asking them to prove a negative. Try telling the next person who is requiring you to show your birth certificate "hey birther, prove that I don't have a birth certificate!".

zabadu: Yes, investigating a president who organized a break in is equal to investigating a president who provided birth records to people who refuse to believe they are birth records.

Your troll-fu is low.

Nah, these 'birthers' are a bunch of asshats. I was just saying that sometimes the crazy-ass conspiracies are real, that's all.

printboy: I want to be a liberal thread-jacker because everyone knows they hold the moral high ground I'm an attention whore

yada-yada....

Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Can someone unplug printboy and plug him back in again? I think he's crashed.

Bloody William: To date, I've never seen a birther address the statement issued by the Hawaii Department of Health's director regarding the validity of the birth certificate. Ever.

Not to mention...

"Even the Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican who at the time was stumping for John McCain, said it was on the up-and-up."

I guess she's in on it too.

Some people just don't let things like facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

/conservative
//wish these idiots would STFU

Dil Doe: Let all 400,000 people touch and feel it? Put it in a museum? Send it across the country on a whistle stop tour?

No, but when the Death Certificate comes out it would be great to see.

Wasn't Kilauea the volcano in which Xenu disposed of all of the aliens? Obama was 'born' in Hawaii. My god, it's all starting to make sense.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Also, why haven't you yet responded at all to the fact that the Hawaii state DoH director, backed by the governor, have confirmed that the certificate exists and is valid? Are you calling them liars? And if so, would that not render any document that comes from the state of Hawaii suspect, regardless?

I accepted their word at first, and I still think that their word is probably trustworthy. But some people have asked to see the original source document. That's a reasonable request. Obama's refusal to honor that simple request, and all of the lame and ridiculous excuses offered for not releasing the document are making more and more people suspicious. Let's just have a look at that document.

No it isn't. It is totally unreasonable. Not only does Obama lack the authority to release the document (or if he does, the burden is on you to prove it), but he has no duty to, whatsoever. The document he has released is valid for all legal purposes. The Hawaiian governor and DoH Director have both certified the original's existence.

A white president would not be asked this, period. McCain would not have been asked the provenance of his birth. The sole reason Obama is being subjected to this is because of race. You, sir, are a racist, as are all of those who fan the flames of this preposterous controversy.

House of Tards: furiousxgeorge:

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

OMG! I HAVE TO ADD THIS TO THE OBAMA DEATH LIST!

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

"Computer generated." That's farking priceless. It's like his COLB is Shrek. Clearly Obama's birth certificate is only valid if written on papyrus with a quill.

It's an official state document. It is evidence of his birth in Hawaii. And the reason the "original" document hasn't been released has been explained to you like a billion times before.

Befuddled: Wasn't Kilauea the volcano in which Xenu disposed of all of the aliens? Obama was 'born' in Hawaii. My god, it's all starting to make sense.

Oprah backed Obama.
Oprah had Tom Cruise.

Oh. My. God.

LesserEvil: It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems

It says the city, county, and island of his birth. Unless one wants to say this is false, I don't see the contention to be made.

LesserEvil: produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

I don't believe I have an original birth certificate, and I'm half Obama's age.

SkinnyHead: Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Because he doesn't have to, and he enjoys confounding racists like you.

spleef420: look closer at the document...see where it says "City, Town or location of birth"? See below that where it says "Honolulu"? Where is this "Honolulu"? Hawaii, correct? DOB 1961...well after Hawaii became a state.

citizen.

What is your point? I'm simply saying that this isn't an original birth certificate. It's simply a certification that there is a record, in Hawaii's database. Nirthers might believe (and nothing can dispute this) that somebody put the information in after the fact.

The certificate was printed last year, not in 1961.

Anything in that record is questionable data, even if somebody at the State's records office is willing to certify it. I'd hazard a guess that the stamp on that certificate belongs to somebody who wasn't born before 1970, let alone 1961 - so what, exactly is that worth?

RemyDuron: LesserEvil: This is all fine and dandy, but all it proves is that the state of Hawaii has a record in their computer systems indicating a "live birth" with this data. For the "nirthers" it does nothing to dispel their concerns.

NOTHING would dispel their concerns. ALL a birth certificate is is a record, and I don't see why that being in a computer system or actual physical paper would make a big difference. They can't release the original, and even if it did it would provide no additional proof because they released an official copy which is just as much proof as the original.

Dear lord I hope I just got trolled, because if someone can type that well but is still so completely oblivious as to think the birthers have any rational basis for their arguments. . .

Look, as long as the ORIGINAL, "real" certificate remains locked away in Obama's keepsake box, there will be questions from a far larger audience. Show the original certificate and put the Nirthers out into the fringe beyond a doubt.

What pisses me off is the way their questions are dismissed without actually showing any evidence to shut them down. You aren't even doing the job half-assed - you simply aren't doing anything.

It's like my teenager tells me the dishes are done.... I can't see the dirty dishes where I'm at, and my son won't let me into the kitchen to verify the dishes are clean. He gets upset because I don't believe him, and calls me a liar, then produces his friend Joe, who insists the dishes are all clean, and I should go sit back down and stop worrying about it.

Those dishes might be clean, might not be. Nobody has proven anything yet. I'll be pissed tomorrow if those dishes aren't done. My wife is screeching to be let into the kitchen to look at the dishes, but those kids are blocking her, calling her a loony bat. For my part, I am growing concerned why they insist on preventing her from checking such a simple thing. Another kid walks into the living room and shows a picture of clean dishes. I don't know where this picture came from... it looks like our dishes, but it could have been taken days ago... why not just show the damn dishes!??!?

So yeah, it bothers me a little bit that the anti-nirthers are running around squealing like they are demon possessed, calling people liars (using a disingenuous semantic interpretation) and refusing the simple, easy, route to shut the supposed "crazies" up.



Ant: LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded

Both sides are equally retarded? Really?

Read the other responses to my post.

Really.

Hoopido: Dil Doe: Let all 400,000 people touch and feel it? Put it in a museum? Send it across the country on a whistle stop tour?

No, but when the Death Certificate comes out it would be great to see.

*facepalm*

I pretty sure the Secret Service has talked to Drew before, and if I recall, it doesn't make him very happy.

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Becaue the "certification" serves as prima facie evidence of a birth certificate. In court cases, it serves the same purpose as a normal birth certificate. Which is why every case has been laughed out of court summarily.

Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

SkinnyHead: Com-un-sense: He can get a copy of his birth certificate. He has, and he posted it online for the world to see. It is a legal, official copy and the only one the state of Hawaii gives out when you request your birth certificate. You and a small minority of other mouth-breathers refuse to accept these facts. No one here can change that. But we can point and laugh.

I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

Because it lists personal information that he doesn't want released to the general public.

Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

HighOnCraic: House of Tards: furiousxgeorge:

So the entire cover up is to keep the public from knowing Obama murdered him?

OMG! I HAVE TO ADD THIS TO THE OBAMA DEATH LIST!

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

Has anyone seen McCain's deathlist? He used a jet with bombs, and the rest he outlived.

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

You do realize that the president doesn't have the power to create laws, only to enforce the ones on the books and determine policy, right?

HighOnCraic:

My favorite part of the "death list" conspiracy is that there's a guy on Obama's death list who is also on the Clinton's death list. I guess Obama resurrected the guy just so he could kill him again. THAT'S how evil Obama is!

It's that or the guy who was in his late 80's and died of heart failure.

Elderly people dying of age-related illnesses? Who could even envision such a thing?

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

And that means he has the power to overlook Hawaii state law? I thought the whole federalism thing meant that states were sovereign and that the federal government couldn't invalidate its laws on a whim.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

I'll quote the law once again, because I am just that goddamn quixotic.

it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

Just because Obama can look at his own records doesn't mean he has the power to release them. And the director of the state's department of health confirms that restriction.

Are you honestly saying you understand a Hawaii state statute more than the director of the very department said statute regulates?

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

Show me the case law or section of Hawaii state code that says he does. Because no, I don't think anyone really has a "direct and tangible interest" in the original copy of his own birth certificate. He or she may have a direct and tangible interest in the record that states routinely release. But not in the original copy, no.

printboy: If I were a liberal, Yada Yada Yada

If I were a Liberal I'd have to immediately quit smoking, in public at least. I'd be required to agree that global warming is real and man is the cause. Even though the earth has cooled in the last decade, everyone knows its still getting warmer.

I'd also have to renounce Christianity in favor of Mother Earth and believe that the Constitution is a 'living instrument'.

I'd have to agree that victimhood trumps merit and that liberals know best. Always. And lastly, I'd have to support the notion that racism is still rampant, even if it is the silent 'institutional' type.

In return, I'll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I'll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don't work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?

I'll finally get my columns published in my own hometown paper and will have a good chance of getting face time on MSNBC. Best of all, I'll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I will live happily ever after. Isn't that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?

Hoopido: Bloody William: Obama couldn't legally disseminate that document if he wanted to.

You do realize he is the president right?

You do realize the President isn't above the law, right? Remember the impeached guys?

Tony Baloney: My father is a rabid, froth-jawed birther and it shames me to think I'm related, let alone descended, from anyone so ignorant and hateful, especially after the flap 8 1/2 years ago about "Sore/Loserman" and all that. I and most folks I know on the wrong side of that election stopped biatching about it once W was sworn in, got behind him, crossed our fingers and said "meh, how bad could he possibly be?"

\the horror
\\the horror

Almost makes you want to move out of his basement, that'd show him.

StampedingElephant: So, even if this crap was true, what's the endgame?

We'd have President Biden. Does anyone want that? Really?

Biden's not black. So, yes. Many of these nuts would rather have Biden. They'd rather have Timothy McVeigh as president than any black man.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

No.

captain_heroic44: Show me the case law or section of Hawaii state code that says he does. Because no, I don't think anyone really has a "direct and tangible interest" in the original copy of his own birth certificate. He or she may have a direct and tangible interest in the record that states routinely release. But not in the original copy, no.

Actually, as the registrant he is one of the people explicitly described in the statute as having a direct and tangible interest (there's a list).

However, that means he can inspect it. It in no way means he can disseminate it.

SkinnyHead:

Don't you think Obama himself has a direct and tangible interest in his own birth certificate, within the meaning of §338-18?

Nope. We're pretty sure he knows when and where he was born and has a wide variety of identifications.

FreakinB: SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

fuzzy409: Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a US. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.


And thousands of Americans per year somehow manage to travel to Cuba with a US Passport........

badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He can, but what good would it do him? All he can do is inspect it. He can't take it out and display it on the internet or anything. That's what the COLB is for.

RevMercutio: LesserEvil:
In short, the image above is not proof of anything

Look at the bottom of the picture you just posted, idiot. It's the sentence with "PROOF" in it.

LIBURL LIES! I LOOKED AT THAT DOCUMANT AND THE WORD PROOF ISNT ON THEIR ANY WHERE. AND WHAT IS THAT PRIMO FACE NONSENCE ANYWAY DOES THAT MEAN FORGARY IN FRENCH?

printboy: If I were a Liberal I'd have to immediately quit smoking, in public at least. I'd be required to agree that global warming is real and man is the cause. Even though the earth has cooled in the last decade, everyone knows its still getting warmer.

I'd also have to renounce Christianity in favor of Mother Earth and believe that the Constitution is a 'living instrument'.

I'd have to agree that victimhood trumps merit and that liberals know best. Always. And lastly, I'd have to support the notion that racism is still rampant, even if it is the silent 'institutional' type.

In return, I'll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I'll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don't work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?

I'll finally get my columns published in my own hometown paper and will have a good chance of getting face time on MSNBC. Best of all, I'll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I will live happily ever after. Isn't that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?

As long as you don't have to give up straw men you'll be just fine.

Vangor: LesserEvil: It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems

It says the city, county, and island of his birth. Unless one wants to say this is false, I don't see the contention to be made.

We don't honestly know whether it's true or false. As far as the State of Hawaii is concerned, for legal purposes, they are certifying that it is true - but that doesn't make it actually true. People are legally declared guilty of crimes they didn't commit, and innocent of crimes they did commit. "Legal" doesn't always equal reality.


LesserEvil: produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

I don't believe I have an original birth certificate, and I'm half Obama's age.

I do. I was born in 1966, and I have my original, as well as a certified copy (an actual copy of the original copy that is on file with the county). I also have my hospital birth certificate (different than the county birth certificate). I don't think that paper Hawaii printed last year would have qualified without some additional documentation.

I also have a document trail that includes my military records, for which I had to produce a certified copy of my ORIGINAL birth certificate, and follows on to the DD214 and my clearance papers for my current job on a government contract.

Somehow, I would think that the POTUS would need just as much documentation to get his job as I did to enlist in the Marine Corps.

The defenders in this thread are stupider than the people who think Obama was born in Kenya.

LesserEvil: If you want to shut the nirthers up, produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

Do you have to show your original driver license when stopped by the police?

The original birth certificate has nothing to do with the legality of it.

Any certified copy is just is good. saying otherwise is just not true.

printboy:

Hi there.

I don't know if you ever noticed, but at the top of the thread there's what we call a "Topic." The way the site is designed, people discuss the subject matter of the "Topic" within the posts of each thread.

/The More you Know....

badhatharry: FreakinB: SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He doesn't have to, and the request that he do so is unreasonable and racist.

cameroncrazy1984: badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He can, but what good would it do him? All he can do is inspect it. He can't take it out and display it on the internet or anything. That's what the COLB is for.

He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

badhatharry: You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

Well, according to the Hawaii state law - which, again, has been posted in this very thread - he can't put it out there for the public. What he can put out for the public, he has.

/Such a great time waster! Need to do this more often

zabadu: SkinnyHead: logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

Are you completely stupid? Did you not see this?

Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

So his grandmother was lying when she said she was at the birth?

LesserEvil: I do. I was born in 1966, and I have my original, as well as a certified copy (an actual copy of the original copy that is on file with the county). I also have my hospital birth certificate (different than the county birth certificate). I don't think that paper Hawaii printed last year would have qualified without some additional documentation.

The official records person of Hawaii disagrees with you. Maybe you should tell her how to do her job then.

badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

Okay, show me where in the state law it says he can disseminate it to people without a direct, tangible interest in it.

captain_heroic44: badhatharry: FreakinB: SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

As someone who's not an Obama "toadie" (though I did vote for him), it's been quite fully demonstrated to you that he has released everything he can under Hawaii law. I mean, even the text of the law itself has been posted in this thread. It's not Obama making excuses. It's state law - verified by some of the highest officials in that state's government - and as we all know, even the President is not above the law.

/Know I'm responding to a troll
//Need to somehow kill time until I head out later

You may not be an Obama "toadie", but you are retarded if you believe that the President can't get a copy of his original birth certificate.

He doesn't have to, and the request that he do so is unreasonable and racist.

I agree with that.

SkinnyHead: I know this is a difficult concept for ignorant Obama toadies (no offense) to grasp, but the computer generated "Certification" of live birth is not the same as the original "Certificate" of live birth. Why won't he release the original?

I imagine that if he still had his original "certificate of live birth," he would have released it. I'm guessing here, but more than likely, it was misplaced sometime during his 47+ years and various moves. So he asked for a new copy, and he posted what they gave him, (back to facts here) the only document they give out to anyone requesting a birth certificate. It is a legal, official copy of the record of his birth and is 100 percent legitimate as proof of citizenship. That you and a handful of other loons don't accept those facts is an unchangeable, yet comical, commentary on just how far people will delude themselves to believe theories with no basis in reality.

badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

No. No, he cannot.

it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

printboy: If I were a Liberal I'd have to immediately quit smoking, in public at least. I'd be required to agree that global warming is real and man is the cause. Even though the earth has cooled in the last decade, everyone knows its still getting warmer.

I'd also have to renounce Christianity in favor of Mother Earth and believe that the Constitution is a 'living instrument'.

I'd have to agree that victimhood trumps merit and that liberals know best. Always. And lastly, I'd have to support the notion that racism is still rampant, even if it is the silent 'institutional' type.

In return, I'll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I'll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don't work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?

I'll finally get my columns published in my own hometown paper and will have a good chance of getting face time on MSNBC. Best of all, I'll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I will live happily ever after. Isn't that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?

LesserEvil: I hate stepping into this argument, because both sides seem to be all sorts of retarded, but since when did they have LASER PRINTERS in 1961 to print certificates?

OK dumbasses one more time.

I had to get my passport two 1/2 years ago because I was planning a trip overseas.

I took my beat-up little printed piece of paper of 1971 vintage with the embossed seal, typewritten info, and all my immunizations written on it in pencil by my mom, plus a few cockatiel or budgie bites taken out of the edges, to the post office. They would not take it. THEY WOULD NOT ACCEPT THIS AS MY BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

I had to send $50+ to a company owned by ChoicePoint to get a transcript of birth or some such, which looks remarkably like Obama's except the paper is reddish. It was clearly printed out on a laser printer on modern paper.

I took this to the post office and they accepted it as proof of my birth.

FOR fark'S SAKE, IF THIS IS PROOF THAT I CAN GET A LEGAL PASSPORT, THE HAWAIIAN DOCUMENT IS PROOF THAT OBAMA CAN BE PRESIDENT.

\that is all.
\\do I need to scan my birth transcript thingy and start posting it for the birthers?

cameroncrazy1984: badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

Okay, show me where in the state law it says he can disseminate it to people without a direct, tangible interest in it.

The state of Hawaii can't disseminate it to anyone without a direct, tangible interest.

LesserEvil: Vangor: LesserEvil: It's just a certification that Hawaii has a record of live birth with that information stored in it's data systems

It says the city, county, and island of his birth. Unless one wants to say this is false, I don't see the contention to be made.

We don't honestly know whether it's true or false. As far as the State of Hawaii is concerned, for legal purposes, they are certifying that it is true - but that doesn't make it actually true. People are legally declared guilty of crimes they didn't commit, and innocent of crimes they did commit. "Legal" doesn't always equal reality.


LesserEvil: produce the actual, original birth certificate, not some "certified record of live birth" printed up last year.

I don't believe I have an original birth certificate, and I'm half Obama's age.

I do. I was born in 1966, and I have my original, as well as a certified copy (an actual copy of the original copy that is on file with the county). I also have my hospital birth certificate (different than the county birth certificate). I don't think that paper Hawaii printed last year would have qualified without some additional documentation.

I also have a document trail that includes my military records, for which I had to produce a certified copy of my ORIGINAL birth certificate, and follows on to the DD214 and my clearance papers for my current job on a government contract.

Somehow, I would think that the POTUS would need just as much documentation to get his job as I did to enlist in the Marine Corps.

I see. So in your opinion, then, the normal requirements were waived just for Obama? Who all was in on this? Was there some kind of a payoff involved? Or has this been in the works since the early 60s?

Oops I think the paper is actually more purply. I was just irritated when I said it was red. Where the fark is that thing anyway, do I need to pipe another $50 to ChoicePoint?

Hoopido: zabadu: SkinnyHead: logruszed: SkinnyHead: Rather than ridicule the 400,000 citizens who have asked to see the original Certificate of Live Birth, why doesn't Obama just authorize release of that document? His stubborn refusal to do so is perpetuating the issue.

It was released, here is a link to it: HERE (new window)

Now are you going to admit you're misinformed?
Or are you just a farking troll or a moron?

No, I'm afraid you're the one misinformed. People are asking Obama to release the original Certificate of Live Birth.

That computer generated document is called a "Certification of Live Birth" which is not the original Certificate of Live Birth.

The original source document is the best evidence of Obama's birth. Instead of going through all these gyrations and excuses, let's just have a look at that.

Are you completely stupid? Did you not see this?

Obama has no "right" to inspect the original, kept in a state vault, or to compel the Hawaii Department of Health to provide him with a photocopy of it.

In any case, this much is clear: the birth facts on the form released by Obama are consistent with the document on file in the records vault. That's simply the way these things work. If the abstract Obama released says he was born in Honolulu, the vault certificate says that he was born in Honolulu.

So his grandmother was lying when she said she was at the birth?

Which grandmother? Which Barack Obama? Give us the entire context of your bullshiat statement, why don't you? Also, show us your birth certificate.

badhatharry: The state of Hawaii can't disseminate it to anyone without a direct, tangible interest.

Wrong. Here, I'll bold the parts that are relevant:

"it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records"

No Such Agency: andrewagill:
apistat: Meh, this is boring. The real fun comes from that crazy blogger who made an enormous post "proving" that Obama's real father was Malcolm X.

The best part of that theory is that she claimed that Obama was born in Seattle. Malcolm X was a US citizen. Dunham was a US citizen. Seattle--someone help me out here, what country is Seattle in?

So a man is born in the US to two US citizen parents.

OMG! He's not a US citizen! It's so obvious!

Holy crap that blog is a bag of crazy. It's almost Time Cube crazy. Also, takes bloody forever to get to the point, by the time it springs the "revelation" no reader would give a crap if Obama's father was Shaka Zulu himself.

Well, now you've done it! Shaka Zulu can open, worms everywhere!

Bloody William: badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

No. No, he cannot.

it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

Bloody William: badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

No. No, he cannot.

it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

So nobody can inspect the vital records. Wow, they must be really top secret.

Egalitarian: Oops I think the paper is actually more purply. I was just irritated when I said it was red. Where the fark is that thing anyway, do I need to pipe another $50 to ChoicePoint?

Not necessarily. Especially if you have someone who lives in the county you were born in. Call the office in your birth county and find out specifically what they need. All Choicepoint does is pay 20-30 bucks to send a freelancer to that office to get it.

My Bad

Stay on topic....

So, Obama is on birth control?

badhatharry: So nobody can inspect the vital records. Wow, they must be really top secret.

Yeah, isn't that weird? It's almost as if they're important!

badhatharry: So nobody can inspect the vital records. Wow, they must be really top secret.fark it. Here's the law in question.

GomezAdams:

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

Hmmmm?

If you are the primary stakeholder in a company, the way the government is, you don't need Constitutional authority to fire an employee. The simple case is, if they wanted money, Rick Waggoner wouldn't and shouldn't be able to piss it away. It's your own tax dollars isn't it.

Besides, looking at the stock price when he became CEO and the price when he left, you REALLY don't want to defend the idiot. I really think you should study GM's decisions in the last decade. That moron made those decisions.

I forget which news show I saw this on, but now some Birthers are putting up a "reward" for anyone who was in the delivery room to step forward and provide physical evidence that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.

A. Obama is nearly 50, so odds are most if not all of the people in the delivery room are dead by now and B. just what "physical evidence" would anyone have after all this time? Hell, if someone took a snap shot, a Birther would just say it was Photoshopped or some such thing. Or do they expect someone to have kept the placenta for half a century? Eeewww.

SupremeLeader: Maybe Obama is the liberal equivalent of Serpentor, a genetic merger of all evil, freedom-hating liberals across the ages.

That's why nobody can find his real, real birth certificate, because he was grown in a Castro Street laboratory!

Somebody needs to make a comic or cartoon of this NOW.

Bloody William: Actually, as the registrant he is one of the people explicitly described in the statute as having a direct and tangible interest (there's a list).

However, that means he can inspect it. It in no way means he can disseminate it.

That's a ridiculous interpretation of §338-18. Once Obama obtains a certified copy of the original document, there is no law preventing him from publicizing it. The whole purpose of obtaining a certified copy of a document is to show the document to others.

SkinnyHead: That's a ridiculous interpretation of §338-18

That's the interpretation given by the director of the Hawaii department of health. You know, the department that is actually involved with upholding and adhering to that statute?

Are you saying you know more about this specific statute than the director of the department it regulates?

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Actually, as the registrant he is one of the people explicitly described in the statute as having a direct and tangible interest (there's a list).

However, that means he can inspect it. It in no way means he can disseminate it.

That's a ridiculous interpretation of §338-18. Once Obama obtains a certified copy of the original document, there is no law preventing him from publicizing it. The whole purpose of obtaining a certified copy of a document is to show the document to others.

Exactly. What purpose would a birth certificate have if you couldn't show it to anyone? To prove to yourself where you were born.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: Actually, as the registrant he is one of the people explicitly described in the statute as having a direct and tangible interest (there's a list).

However, that means he can inspect it. It in no way means he can disseminate it.

That's a ridiculous interpretation of §338-18. Once Obama obtains a certified copy of the original document, there is no law preventing him from publicizing it. The whole purpose of obtaining a certified copy of a document is to show the document to others.

There's also no reason for him to do so. Again, you're a racist, and who's actually met an intelligent racist? That's why this argument will continue forever, apparently.

Hoopido:
So his grandmother was lying when she said she was at the birth?

She said he was a "child of this village". She repeatedly says that he was born in Hawaii.

If someone comes to Colorado and buys a Subaru Outback, I might say "you're a true Coloradoan now". It doesn't magically change where that person was born.

/Seriously, how do you even function at a high enough level to turn a computer on? Do you just mash at buttons until it gets all *BEEP*y?

Bloody William: badhatharry: So nobody can inspect the vital records. Wow, they must be really top secret.fark it. Here's the law in question.

It is referring to personnel in the records office.

Bloody William: That's the interpretation given by the director of the Hawaii department of health. You know, the department that is actually involved with upholding and adhering to that statute?

When did the director of Hawaii DOH specifically state that Obama could not disseminate a copy of his own original birth certificate?

Egalitarian:
I took my beat-up little printed piece of paper of 1971 vintage with the embossed seal, typewritten info, and all my immunizations written on it in pencil by my mom, plus a few cockatiel or budgie bites taken out of the edges, to the post office. They would not take it. THEY WOULD NOT ACCEPT THIS AS MY BIRTH CERTIFICATE.


Thanks - I'd been wondering about that. Since all I have is the same sort of thing, except it's handwritten. And the embossed seal has worn down so it's not really that notably embossed anymore.

I should probably talk to the woefully primitive holders of my vital records (County of Los Angeles, California) and get an updated copy one of these days.

printboy: I want to be a liberal because everyone knows they hold the moral high ground. They don't lie, cheat or steal. Oh, and they don't condone torture. The media says so, so it must be true.


Before I am able to join this community of man, however, there are a few ground rules:


I have to acknowledge that government is the best and only solution for any problems America has. Despite the fact that pretty much every government solution to date has been a disaster.


I must agree that America is bad and white Christian males are responsible for all that is wrong with the world. Further, I must agree that terrorists and third world dictators are either freedom fighters or misunderstood men of good will. Oh, and I must acknowledge that dialogue is better than war. Even though decades of dialogue haven't worked, things are different, now that Obama is president. I must have faith. After all, the times, they are a changin'.


I'd, of course, be expected to not only condone, but happily embrace gay marriage and the long list of newly minted sexual behaviors, and swear to never mention the adverse health risks or the proven harm they do to traditional families.


I'd also have to quit judging people (except for conservatives). After all, liberals will allow me to do whatever I want, free from moral censure, and its only fair I do the same for them.

You wanna be a liberal? Fine. Here, **POOF** you're a liberal.
See? Easy , peasy.

Oh, come on. Nobody before me? Really?



/Hot like good linguica sausage
//All that needs to be said in reply

LesserEvil: What is your point? I'm simply saying that this isn't an original birth certificate. It's simply a certification that there is a record, in Hawaii's database.

The stupid. It burns!

If I was a liberal, I would NOT have fought charlie in Vietnam, I wouldve dodged the draft like a liberal cowherd. I mightve gone to Nam later as a salesman.

If I was a liberal, I would try to oppress any kind of frank dialog and instead only take prescreened questions from the press. This would be the case not just for the president, but also for the governer and for the mare.

If I was a liberal, I would take money from the hard working denisens of America and give it to the wellfare queens who are addicted to crack, huff paint and jerk off behind dumpsters. I would rock and roll all night man. And party every day man. Let the other people pay my way!

If I was a liberal, I would spend all my time paying attention to TMZ, wondering about Lindsey Lohan and the kid from the "Im a Mac" commericals instead of recognizing that the president is an illegal emigrant who gave the queen an ipod and eats mustard. I would always let blacks play the race card while actually being racist towards whites because of white guilt, calling my own people a mick. Poiliticians would be my god instead of Jesus and I would literally worship Obama as the messiah. I would ignore stains that looked like the virgin Mary and instead Id pray to stains that looked like Keith Olberman.

If I was a liberal, I would look through my refrigerater for soda, OJ, purple stuff, sunny D, but then Id pick the starbucks latte because Id be a latte liberal who drinks elitist starbucks coffee. I would be underweight, restless and have brittle bones from being a stupid vagitarian. I would hate hamburger pattys and fart a mist that smelled like my own self importants called "smug". I would pretend to solve the oil crisis by driveing an electric car. Men would have sex with me at the gay club I frequented as a gay liberal, or maybe they would be trannys. (Pre op)

If I was a liberal I would stand up for what I believe in! *crickets* Oh wait liberals dont believe in anything. There only beliefs is they want an abortion.

If I was a liberal, I would NOT heed the words of my father who used to remind me always, "sonny, in Philadelphia theres a bell called the liberty bell and it stands for liberty." Those were wise words but the libs seem to have forgotten.

SkinnyHead: Bloody William: That's the interpretation given by the director of the Hawaii department of health. You know, the department that is actually involved with upholding and adhering to that statute?

When did the director of Hawaii DOH specifically state that Obama could not disseminate a copy of his own original birth certificate?

There's only one original. How does one "disseminate" a single document?

LesserEvil: We don't honestly know whether it's true or false

You seem to have missed where I said, "say". I possess no reason to doubt the validity of the claims of birth place by a person, a certificate attesting to this fact, nor the agency verifying the authenticity of the certificate. To need to say "We don't honestly know whether it's true or false," is absurd. The insinuation is made now that evidence must be provided to dismiss conspiratorial doubt.

LesserEvil: "Legal" doesn't always equal reality.

What you believe you experience doesn't always equal reality either. Still, this doesn't mean a solipsism is a reasonable perspective on the world.

LesserEvil: Somehow, I would think that the POTUS would need just as much documentation to get his job as I did to enlist in the Marine Corps.

I believe I had to present two valid forms of identification and a photo identification when I was attempting to apply into the Air Force. One was a birth certificate, and both others either required the same birth certificate or my SSN to receive. Perhaps more would have been required had I fully enlisted, I am unsure. However, all the same, if I ran for POTUS I don't know what information I could show beyond those if anyone questioned me.

I don't know about anyone else, I started out this thread not believing the claims of the birthers but now I'm convinced. There's no way I'm going to vote for Obama this November.

Dragonsbreath: The main issue is he will not show any of his records..

Original, vault copy birth certificate -- Not released -- Lawyers fees -- greater than $1,000,000 -- birth certificate -- $15.
Certification of Live Birth -- Released -- Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Kindergarten records -- Records lost (this is a big one -- see here -- read two frames)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released
Soetoro adoption records -- Not released

Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Released (by independent investigators)
Punahou School records -- Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce -- Released (by independent investigators)

Selective Service Registration -- Released -- Counterfeit
Occidental College records -- Not released
Passport -- Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama's terrorism and intelligence adviser.
Columbia College records -- Not released
Columbia thesis -- "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament" -- Not released
Harvard College records -- Not released
Harvard Law Review articles -- None

Illinois Bar Records -- Not released.
Baptism certificate -- None
Medical records -- Not released
Illinois State Senate records -- None
Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost
Law practice client list -- Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None


Should make someone wonder whats being hidden....

Maybe he doesn't really exist. He sorta came onto the scene right around the time Dave Chappelle vanished.

/his voice reminds me of when Chappelle pretends to be a White guy

Bloody William: badhatharry: He can display it on the front page of the New York Times if he wanted to.

No. No, he cannot.

Yes. Yes, he can.

He might be impeached if he did, but why let that get in the way of a good conspiracy?