TXEric: Wow, this has turned into quite the pissing match!

I give him his props for his musical and dancing prowess; I remember vividly when Elvis took his Final Dump (I was 21, and thought my Mom was going to faint when Brokaw came on the news with, "The King is dead!"), and this situation is very similar.

I think he was weird, and have no idea what the truth is as far has his diddling little boys. I know that I wouldn't let my son sleep over at Neverland, for any reason.

That being said, I agree with the poster who mentioned Stevie Ray Vaughan.

/RIP, SRV.

Having lived thru Elvis' death, I can tell you that there was no "wall to wall" coverage back then, thank God.

zabadu: Excen: richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

What is proof? You have Michael Jackson admitting he has an unnatural attraction toward children, he thought it was ok to sleep in the same bed as a strange child, and a $20,000,000 settlement! If that's not an admission that the trial was eventually headed toward a victory for the party that instigated the litigation, I don't know what is!

[snip, snip]

/Buh-buh-buh-but he wrote Thriller!
//No, actually that was Rod Temperton (according to Wikipedia)

Standing ovation

Ok, you're portraying me as some celebrity worshiper. That's quite far from the truth. I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

No, he did not actually pen many of the songs he sang, but neither did Pavarotti. What's your point? Unlike the gargantuan cesspool that is currently the music industry, he actually stood out as being a virtually unsurpassed rock vocalist, dancer, choreographer, and even songwriter. He was deeply involved in much of the song production, sang without computer enhancement, and wrote a lot of songs himself. But I'm not going to babble on about his music resume. If you've turned on any news station in the past week, you've already been subjected to it enough.

Instead, it's tough for me to witness the fall of an iconic figure. I realize his effective fall might have actually taken place years ago, but reading zany stories in tabloids is not the same thing as hearing about an autopsy being performed.

I don't think there's harm in remembering the only celebrity death in this decade that will remain an important moment in history for many years to come. My apologies if uncle Jimmy touched your private parts while you were still in diapers, and now you're lashing out at strangers on Fark over it.

It seems like both of you--zabadu and Excen--are being contrary for the sake of stroking your own egos, so I'm going to stop feeding the trolls now. Sorry.

richarizard: zabadu: Excen: richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

What is proof? You have Michael Jackson admitting he has an unnatural attraction toward children, he thought it was ok to sleep in the same bed as a strange child, and a $20,000,000 settlement! If that's not an admission that the trial was eventually headed toward a victory for the party that instigated the litigation, I don't know what is!

[snip, snip]

/Buh-buh-buh-but he wrote Thriller!
//No, actually that was Rod Temperton (according to Wikipedia)

Standing ovation

Ok, you're portraying me as some celebrity worshiper. That's quite far from the truth. I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

No, he did not actually pen many of the songs he sang, but neither did Pavarotti. What's your point? Unlike the gargantuan cesspool that is currently the music industry, he actually stood out as being a virtually unsurpassed rock vocalist, dancer, choreographer, and even songwriter. He was deeply involved in much of the song production, sang without computer enhancement, and wrote a lot of songs himself. But I'm not going to babble on about his music resume. If you've turned on any news station in the past week, you've already been subjected to it enough.

Instead, it's tough for me to witness the fall of an iconic figure. I realize his effective fall might have actually taken place years ago, but reading zany stories in tabloids is not the same thing as hearing about an autopsy being performed.

I don't think there's harm in remembering the only celebrity death in this decade that will remain an important moment in history for many years to come. My apologies if uncle Jimmy touched your private parts while you were still in diapers, and now you're lashing out at strangers on Fark over it.

It seems like both of you--zabadu and Excen--are being contrary for the sake of stroking your own egos, so I'm going to stop feeding the trolls now. Sorry.

Excuse me, I am not a troll, check my membership. Not being contrary for the fun of it - I truly fail to see how this sick and twisted man is being worshipped because he died and all his sins forgotten.

Never been molested, never had any of those issues. So you can sing and dance. That absolves you of sin?

As for "the only celebrity death in this decade that will remain an important moment in history for many years to come", well, that's just your opinion. I can think of far more that made an impact on this earth because of their work, and none of them slept with little children.

DamnYankees: Odd story here, btw. The psychiatrist who went to the cops telling them that Jackson molested the first kid in 1993 is a family friend of my parents. He would come over for dinner pretty often. Really nice guy.

You mean dentist, right?

richarizard: Ok, you're portraying me as some celebrity worshiper. That's quite far from the truth. I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

If the shoe fits. . .

No, he did not actually pen many of the songs he sang, but neither did Pavarotti. What's your point? Unlike the gargantuan cesspool that is currently the music industry, he actually stood out as being a virtually unsurpassed rock vocalist, dancer, choreographer, and even songwriter. He was deeply involved in much of the song production, sang without computer enhancement, and wrote a lot of songs himself. But I'm not going to babble on about his music resume. If you've turned on any news station in the past week, you've already been subjected to it enough.

My point is that he was a solid "meh" on the vocal talent scale. Imagine, if you will, that Michael from 2004 showed up to an American Idol talent search. Simon Cowell would rip off what's left of his nose and beat him to death with it. He didn't write any of the music part of his music (just the lyrics of a song or two per album), his choreographers showed him how to do the moonwalk (which he didn't invent, BTW), and he didn't do jack squat regarding the production of his albums, that was 100% Quincy Jones. Putting Jackson in the same musical talent league as Pavarotti is insulting, and only highlights your lack of taste, discretion and intellect.

Instead, it's tough for me to witness the fall of an iconic figure. I realize his effective fall might have actually taken place years ago, but reading zany stories in tabloids is not the same thing as hearing about an autopsy being performed.

I don't think there's harm in remembering the only celebrity death in this decade that will remain an important moment in history for many years to come. My apologies if uncle Jimmy touched your private parts while you were still in diapers, and now you're lashing out at strangers on Fark over it.

There's ample harm in just remembering the good of Michael Jackson. It would be like remembering George W. Bush only for liberating the people of Afghanistan from the Taliban, or forgetting that Mao Zedong killed 4 times and Joseph Stalin killed 5 times as many people as Hitler. He was a construct, a shell for the music industry to load and hock their best taste-unification muzak. I find it intellectually amusing that you resort to personal attacks when I merely state facts regarding a man (I use that term loosely) largely considered to be insane for the majority of, and criminally insane for a significant portion of his life.

It seems like both of you--zabadu and Excen--are being contrary for the sake of stroking your own egos, so I'm going to stop feeding the trolls now. Sorry.

I'm being "contrary" because I can see through the celebrity worship and because the legacy of the best-selling recording artist of all time should have a big, child's-hand-shaped asterisk next to it.

/ROCK vocalist? Cue the "you's trollin'" Boxxy pic

andyofne: You mean dentist, right?

No. Psychiatrist. The dentist took his son to the psychiatrist to tell him what happened. The psychiatrist then reported it, as he had a legal obligation to. That's how it was made public.

And for the record, it was richarizard's mom that molested me.

/I was a strapping young 11-year-old. . .

DamnYankees: zabadu: Because you cannot have compassion for people who bring innocents into their private misery.

Why not?

Because two wrongs don't make a right, you dumb twot. Are you really a NYU law student? You sound like a troll or a sociopath yourself. Listen, if you were abused, you can chose to forgive or hate your abuser, just as MJ could have chosen to forgive or hate his father and others in his past. But a lawyer is supposed to participate in the justice process by obtaining a conviction for crimes. Or do you have inside information on ways around the justice process?

When MJ chose to actively pursue innocent children and ruin their lives, he became the abuser. He became a criminal. He used his pop star money and fame to obtain victims the way that pedophile priests used their positions of authority to abuse children and control any complaining parents. Money spent on MJ records by fans was used to pay off victims just like church donations were used to pay off victims. And fools continue to whitewash this process and worship at the altar of his "celebrity."

MJ was not a musical genius like Prince or Elvis. MJ was a store-boughten guy. Real artists behind the scenes wrote the music and choreography, Mj just practiced it to death and performed it well like his father forced him to from childhood.

Who did MJ influence? I think the Jackson five were influenced by many Motown song/dance groups, and when MJ re-emerged in the 80s, he was constructed to borrow heavily from Prince. If fans bought jackets and gloves, that isn't real artistic influence. That is just the successful sale of "merch."

richarizard: Ok, you're portraying me as some celebrity worshiper. That's quite far from the truth. I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

Anyone who can't listen to anything besides MJ due to their grief would seem to be a celebrity worshiper.

I'm no expert though.

WeenerGord: Because two wrongs don't make a right, you dumb twot.

Compassion means extending emotions of sorry and comfort towards someone. Understanding means just that. Sympathy means sharing the feelings that someone else has. These things have no connection to 'justice' or 'right' or 'wrong'. They simply are the way we choose to interact with one another. They live side by side with each other. The world is better off the more we have of compassion and understanding.

richarizard: I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

I would just say it is incredibly pathetic.

tweekster: richarizard: I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

I would just say it is incredibly pathetic.

It's pathetic to feel grief over the death of an artist who was important to you? Why?

DamnYankees: It's pathetic to feel grief over the death of an artist who was important to you? Why?

Over that of family members. Yes it is.

Over a washed up artist that hasn't done shiat in nearly 2 decades, yes it is.

tweekster: Over that of family members. Yes it is.

Over a washed up artist that hasn't done shiat in nearly 2 decades, yes it is.

I don't know what kind of person tells someone else that his feelings about his own family are pathetic. You don't know richarizard. You don't know anything about his personal relationships, or his life. Yet you feel right telling him its "pathetic" that music moves him to a large degree.

I don't know what kind of person says that.

WeenerGord: Rhymenocerus: "Thirty percent said they followed the story very closely, though that number jumped to 80 percent among blacks"

It always surprises me to hear about African Americans (blacks) taking a huge interest in Michael Jackson. I've wondered, if I had been born black, would I take offense to someone who has spent countless dollars rearranging his body to appear white? Maybe its racist for me to even ponder such things, and maybe I don't get it because I am white. It just seems sad to me that a hero to one race would strive to appear as another race.

Know what's crazy? Al Sharpton said that "Michael made young men and women all over the world imitate us" on Tuesday.

What a whitewash. Michael made black people idolize him because he was able to make himself white. MJ was the ultimate "passer."

The real issues here are of black people's self-hate, their love/hate of the white people and their inability to deal with this in a way which is not destructive.

To quote the Bishop Don Magic Juan, "Church". He was a polarizing force: if you were black and didn't unconditionally support Michael during the legal stuff, you were a sellout, a traitor to your race, an oreo. Why do you think only complete irrelevant blowhards like Sharpton and close friends and family are the only people speaking out about him? The guy sold 970 million albums, but not a single current musician, regardless of race, can publicly say anything about him. I find it disgusting that the black community couldn't collectively say in 2005, a hundred and fifty years after slavery and fifty years after achieving legal equality, "You know, he's a pedo, he deserves to go to prison, and we deserve a better, saner, more wholesome star."

/Al, Jesse and every other "Leader" needs to make like the actual black leaders
//MLK and Malcolm X, that is

wylkyn: /and it's not going to bring the pedo back

[citation needed]

AFAIK, he was acquitted of all charges.

DamnYankees: tweekster: Over that of family members. Yes it is.

Over a washed up artist that hasn't done shiat in nearly 2 decades, yes it is.

I don't know what kind of person tells someone else that his feelings about his own family are pathetic. You don't know richarizard. You don't know anything about his personal relationships, or his life. Yet you feel right telling him its "pathetic" that music moves him to a large degree.

I don't know what kind of person says that.

He was a 1980's artist. He was also a shiatty human being (for a number reasons). He should barely be remembered, let alone have people broken up about his death.

The world is a better place.

tweekster: He was a 1980's artist. He was also a shiatty human being (for a number reasons). He should barely be remembered, let alone have people broken up about his death.

The world is a better place.

I hope when someone you care about dies and you feel somewhat upset by it, you come across better men and women than yourself.

DamnYankees: WeenerGord: Because two wrongs don't make a right, you dumb twot.

Compassion means extending emotions of sorry and comfort towards someone. Understanding means just that. Sympathy means sharing the feelings that someone else has. These things have no connection to 'justice' or 'right' or 'wrong'. They simply are the way we choose to interact with one another. They live side by side with each other. The world is better off the more we have of compassion and understanding.

Why don't you offer a portion of your effulgent emotions of sorry, comfort and understanding towards the child victims of MJs crimes? not to mention their parents who were attacked by the Nation of Islam muscle when they complained.

WeenerGord: Why don't you offer a portion of your effulgent emotions of sorry, comfort and understanding towards the child victims of MJs crimes? not to mention their parents who were attacked by the Nation of Islam muscle when they complained.

I do.

DamnYankees: tweekster: He was a 1980's artist. He was also a shiatty human being (for a number reasons). He should barely be remembered, let alone have people broken up about his death.

The world is a better place.

I hope when someone you care about dies and you feel somewhat upset by it, you come across better men and women than yourself.

I hope when someone I care about dies it doesn't end up on Fark.

ExRedStater: I hope when someone I care about dies it doesn't end up on Fark.

Well, that too.

DamnYankees: tweekster: richarizard: I've never batted an eye over a celebrity (or family member, for that matter...) dying before in my life. His hit me hard though. Trivialize it if you'd like.

I would just say it is incredibly pathetic.

It's pathetic to feel grief over the death of an artist who was important to you? Why?

To say you "feel sad" that an artist has passed is one thing. To say that you've only been able to listen to that artists music since he passed and are having a hard time getting past it - yeah, that's a little much.

However, people grieve in strange ways. But for me, to grieve continuously over someone you do not know, well, that's kind of sad.

TsukasaK: wylkyn: /and it's not going to bring the pedo back

[citation needed]

AFAIK, he was acquitted of all charges.

Acquitted does not equal innocence.

Paying a settlement does not equal innocence.

DamnYankees: ExRedStater: I hope when someone I care about dies it doesn't end up on Fark.

Well, that too.

*wink*

Isn't it funny that almost all the Michael Jackson music being played is at least 25 years old? Coould it be that his later stuff sucked?

DamnYankees: tweekster: He was a 1980's artist. He was also a shiatty human being (for a number reasons). He should barely be remembered, let alone have people broken up about his death.

The world is a better place.

I hope when someone you care about dies and you feel somewhat upset by it, you come across better men and women than yourself.

You know, there is reasonable grief and exaggerated grief. "Someone you care about" should be someone you know, not some guy who sang on a record.

DamnYankees: WeenerGord: Why don't you offer a portion of your effulgent emotions of sorry, comfort and understanding towards the child victims of MJs crimes? not to mention their parents who were attacked by the Nation of Islam muscle when they complained.

I do.

Really? Because you haven't said that once.

TsukasaK: wylkyn: /and it's not going to bring the pedo back

[citation needed]

AFAIK, he was acquitted of all charges.


Here you go:





/Acquittal =/= Innocence (e.g. OJ)

DamnYankees: I hope when someone you care about dies and you feel somewhat upset by it, you come across better men and women than yourself.

I care about people that I actually know. That know I exist.

It is equally pathetic if it were about Farrah fawcet and only watching her movies (of course atleast she was a good person, not scum like mj)

DamnYankees: tweekster: Over that of family members. Yes it is.

Over a washed up artist that hasn't done shiat in nearly 2 decades, yes it is.

I don't know what kind of person tells someone else that his feelings about his own family are pathetic. You don't know richarizard. You don't know anything about his personal relationships, or his life. Yet you feel right telling him its "pathetic" that music moves him to a large degree.

I don't know what kind of person says that.

It's like saying the death of Britney Spears or that d-bag from Nickelback or that bigger d-bag from Creed would move you to a depressive funk.

Jackson's music was the worst kind of manufactured soupy drivel, without any musical exploration or experimentation whatsoever. I mean the most artistic Jackson ever got in his career, Jackson in his purest form, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" was post-disco disposable dogshiat. He will be remembered for selling a metric shiat-ton of media and for being a kiddie-fiddler, not for revolutionizing music as an artistic medium or even a musical genre.

/He invented cassette sales, so he does have that going for him

Excen: Jackson's music was the worst kind of manufactured soupy drivel, without any musical exploration or experimentation whatsoever. I mean the most artistic Jackson ever got in his career, Jackson in his purest form, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" was post-disco disposable dogshiat. He will be remembered for selling a metric shiat-ton of media and for being a kiddie-fiddler, not for revolutionizing music as an artistic medium or even a musical genre.

/He invented cassette sales, so he does have that going for him

Also the impact on music videos as more epic tales.

Trucker: Isn't it funny that almost all the Michael Jackson music being played is at least 25 years old? Coould it be that his later stuff sucked?

After 1990 he was too busy farking children to write music.

/See the title of his 1991 album release. . .

DamnYankees: WeenerGord: Why don't you offer a portion of your effulgent emotions of sorry, comfort and understanding towards the child victims of MJs crimes? not to mention their parents who were attacked by the Nation of Islam muscle when they complained.

I do.

If you do feel compassion for Mjs victims, odd that you should express it by continually begging for forgiveness for their acquitted abuser in this thread.

I'm just glad he is still dead.

//lude

zabadu: Really? Because you haven't said that once.

I need to express my compassion for everyone? If you ask me, I'll tell you. They weren't the topic.

WeenerGord: If you do feel compassion for Mjs victims, odd that you should express it by continually begging for forgiveness for their acquitted abuser in this thread.

I have not once asked anyone to forgive Jackson. Not once.

tweekster: I care about people that I actually know. That know I exist.

It is equally pathetic if it were about Farrah fawcet and only watching her movies (of course atleast she was a good person, not scum like mj)

zabadu: You know, there is reasonable grief and exaggerated grief. "Someone you care about" should be someone you know, not some guy who sang on a record.

I think you are both being disingenuous. People care about others they do not know - all the people who were stricken over the deaths of MLK, or JFK, or RFK. People are devestated when vgreat artists or authors die. Like it or not, humans are capable of caring a great deal about people they do not personally know.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Really? Because you haven't said that once.

I need to express my compassion for everyone? If you ask me, I'll tell you. They weren't the topic.

WeenerGord: If you do feel compassion for Mjs victims, odd that you should express it by continually begging for forgiveness for their acquitted abuser in this thread.

I have not once asked anyone to forgive Jackson. Not once.

DamnYankees: tweekster: I care about people that I actually know. That know I exist.

It is equally pathetic if it were about Farrah fawcet and only watching her movies (of course atleast she was a good person, not scum like mj)

zabadu: You know, there is reasonable grief and exaggerated grief. "Someone you care about" should be someone you know, not some guy who sang on a record.

I think you are both being disingenuous. People care about others they do not know - all the people who were stricken over the deaths of MLK, or JFK, or RFK. People are devestated when vgreat artists or authors die. Like it or not, humans are capable of caring a great deal about people they do not personally know.

No, we've only been talking about victims for a while now. Guess you missed that.

There is a HUGE difference between someone being assassinated and the shock and grief that come from that and a pedophilic bleached musician that basically took his own life with no consideration for anyone other than himself. HUGE difference.

zabadu: There is a HUGE difference between someone being assassinated and the shock and grief that come from that and a pedophilic bleached musician that basically took his own life with no consideration for anyone other than himself. HUGE difference.

Is it really your job to judge who people care about? Michael Jackson affected a lot of people. He was the biggest star in the world with the greatest selling album of all time. He affected lots of people. I don't see why you see fit to judge anyone for caring about his death.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Really? Because you haven't said that once.

I need to express my compassion for everyone? If you ask me, I'll tell you. They weren't the topic.

WeenerGord: If you do feel compassion for Mjs victims, odd that you should express it by continually begging for forgiveness for their acquitted abuser in this thread.

I have not once asked anyone to forgive Jackson. Not once.

Actually, you asked us not to be angry at Jackson, but to show compassion and understanding now that he's dead and can no longer harm anyone.

DamnYankees: I don't know what kind of person tells someone else that his feelings about his own family are pathetic. You don't know richarizard. You don't know anything about his personal relationships, or his life.

Richarizard himself told us that his feelings toward his own family are pathetic.

I don't know what kind of person says that.

For once I have to agree with you. I don't know what kind of person can say "I've never batted an eye over a -family member- dying before in my life" either.

tweekster: Excen:
It's like saying the death of Britney Spears or that d-bag from Nickelback or that bigger d-bag from Creed would move you to a depressive funk.

Jackson's music was the worst kind of manufactured soupy drivel, without any musical exploration or experimentation whatsoever. I mean the most artistic Jackson ever got in his career, Jackson in his purest form, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" was post-disco disposable dogshiat. He will be remembered for selling a metric shiat-ton of media and for being a kiddie-fiddler, not for revolutionizing music as an artistic medium or even a musical genre.

/He invented cassette sales, so he does have that going for him

Also the impact on music videos as more epic tales.

Which was all for naught, when MTV started the quest to kill the music video (and television in general, but I digress) in the summer of 1992 with The Real World.

zabadu: Actually, you asked us not to be angry at Jackson, but to show compassion and understanding now that he's dead and can no longer harm anyone.

Well, not sure I 'asked' you to do anything. But otherwise that's correct.

DamnYankees: zabadu: There is a HUGE difference between someone being assassinated and the shock and grief that come from that and a pedophilic bleached musician that basically took his own life with no consideration for anyone other than himself. HUGE difference.

Is it really your job to judge who people care about? Michael Jackson affected a lot of people. He was the biggest star in the world with the greatest selling album of all time. He affected lots of people. I don't see why you see fit to judge anyone for caring about his death.

1. I can judge whomever I wish, as others can judge me.
2. Biggest star in the world? I think not.
3. Biggest selling album of all time? Sure. Biggest freak of all time? Pretty damned close.

Studying defense law, aren't you? Have fun springing people like him.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Actually, you asked us not to be angry at Jackson, but to show compassion and understanding now that he's dead and can no longer harm anyone.

Well, not sure I 'asked' you to do anything. But otherwise that's correct.

You implored us to see your way of compassion and understanding. If you want to get into semantics...

DamnYankees: zabadu: Really? Because you haven't said that once.

I need to express my compassion for everyone? If you ask me, I'll tell you. They weren't the topic.

Obviously the victims were beside the point and not important TO YOU.

zabadu: You implored us to see your way of compassion and understanding. If you want to get into semantics...

I merely note that I think that's a better of interacting with the world. If you want to interpret that as me asking or imploring, fine. I'm more than happy to ask for more compassion and understanding from anyone.

WeenerGord: Obviously the victims were beside the point and not important TO YOU.

I try to extend sympathy and compassion for everyone. I'm somewhat amazed people think "have compassion" is a radical or weird statement.

DamnYankees: WeenerGord: Obviously the victims were beside the point and not important TO YOU.

I try to extend sympathy and compassion for everyone. I'm somewhat amazed people think "have compassion" is a radical or weird statement.

It is radical and weird when you want to apply it to sociopaths like Manson or Jackson.

zabadu: It is radical and weird when you want to apply it to sociopaths like Manson or Jackson.

Everyone means everyone. It does me no good to hate people.