zabadu: So, we should also have compassion and understanding for Charlie Manson when he dies too?

Don't be silly, Charlie can't dance for shiat.

Jon LaJoie's thoughts:
Link (new window)
NSFW Language

zabadu: continuing: Because he's dead, we forget the beatings and only remember Dad sitting at the breakfast table reading the newspaper?

Absolutely not. You remember them for who they were, good and bad. But what I'm saying is that when we think of the bad, hate doesn't help us. Derision doesn't help us. Anger doesn't help us. Compassion and understanding are what help us. When we think of a father who maybe beat us, we can feel compassion for him, for being the type of man who would do that, and for who must have had terrible things going on inside his head. We can feel sympathy for a man who never felt love or family the way we feel he should have.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you if this is your personal experience. I'm just trying to explain my thinking.

zabadu: So, we should also have compassion and understanding for Charlie Manson when he dies too?

As much as we can, yes. True sociopaths are perhaps the hardest people to feel for, but the lack of compassion is mark against us, not against them.

DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

2) Both trials had some rather compelling evidence that favored Jackson. The first child had a history of false accusations, and the second child was part of a potentially baseless witch hunt for kids who would be willing to say Jackson touched them in exchange for cash.

3) Even if he did commit these crimes, at what point do you say the sentence has been served? Is millions upon millions of dollars lost and a tarnished reputation for the rest of his life not enough?

4) The man is farking dead. To dismiss his legacy or reduce him to a couple trials is understandable with, like, Hitler. But Michael freakin' Jackson? I'm still at a loss. :(

Marla Singer's Laundry: Excen: If that's a legacy meant to be worshiped and held as an American Standard of Music, why would anyone listen to anything Billboard says is "Good Music"?

Did you read this part:

"Fifty years from now people will still be listening to Thriller and Billie Jean, but Michael Jackson the boogie man will have been forgotten."

Kind of his point, you know?

Have you seen photos of the guy after about 1990? That's not something you can forget easily. He made fat, Vegas-Elvis look downright cute and cuddly.

Give it a decade and Jackson will be just as musically irrelevant as Elvis, except your kids will be saying, "Eeew. I don't want to listen to that child rapist." instead of just saying the music sucks.

/You're just pissed that your childhood was raped by Columbia

agwood18: LasssiterBeRight: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022009/news/columnists/shed_no_tears_for_this_twi s ted_sicko_177187.htm

Wow. You go girl.

Uh, link's farked?
TEXT of TFA (bolds mine)

YOU'D have thought by the media lovefest that the pope had died a tragic death after a lifetime of caring for lepers.

But, no, it was the death of Michael Jackson, a drug-addled, creepy-beyond-words, accused pedophile who literally bought his children with the help of two brood mares and, apparently, his dermatologist -- a group of amoral savages who had no problem giving their kids to a man who looked like the Phantom of the Opera and who behaved like a depraved worm.

You can call it "adoption," but I call it child-trafficking.

OK, I said it -- and it's about time somebody had the nerve to say what millions of people must feel and believe about the once-talented black man who turned himself into a white woman before turning himself into a monster.

But you'd never know any of that if you'd listened for the past week to the endless prattle from the sickening, fawning media and all those Hollywood music phonies who were crying crocodile tears over someone they'd mostly avoided like, well, a pedophile.

Even the president of the United States felt compelled to issue a statement. Are you kidding me?

I say all this not just as some casual bystander to the Michael Jackson freak show -- though I was a Jacko freak back in 1993, when I was as in awe of him as the rest of the world. But then one day, a friend came to see me at my office at another newspaper and everything changed.

"My cousin's boy's been hijacked by Michael Jackson," he said. He pulled out two photos of the boy, Jordie Chandler, with Jackson. They were dressed alike -- in fedoras, little black suits, each wearing one freaking glove. They were on a roller-coaster -- in Europe.

Jordie's mother had remarried, and his stepfather had introduced her to Jackson. Within weeks, the sleepovers among Jackson and her gorgeous 13-year-old son and 5-year-old daughter began. The boy broke down and told his father that he'd been molested at Jackson's playground, Neverland Ranch, and in Europe.

The dad, a dentist-to-the-stars and screenwriter, contacted authorities, and shortly thereafter was jumped and beaten bloody in a garage. His home was broken into, and thugs menaced patients in his waiting room. The authorities told him it might be best if he and his son disappeared for a while. They settled for more than $20 million. The father took the boy underground, and he had plastic surgery and disguised himself for safety. Dental practice destroyed, screenwriting career over, family in tatters.

Jackson walked free -- or as free as a tortured soul can be -- to repeat over and over again his hideous tricks with children at Neverland, a place straight out of "Hansel and Gretel."

It is in this very spot where his family wanted to put on their grotesque public display of his sadly emaciated, needle-marked body, reportedly to be dressed "like a prince," as though he has become one of the garish statues upon which he loved to drop millions in Las Vegas hotel tchotchke shops. Another circus of the macabre to add to the horror that became Michael Jackson's life.

This is the kind of madness that's followed Jackson's death -- everyone is acting as though the world has lost one of its greatest men.

The King of Pop was a great entertainer -- innovative beyond anyone the world had ever seen -- but he turned into a disgustingly depraved man who hung an infant off a balcony and forced his kids to walk around with masks, veils, towels and even nets over their faces.

Great men don't pretend to be childlike to disguise their depravities. Shameful.

The king is dead, and I for one am not crying.

DamnYankees: zabadu: continuing: Because he's dead, we forget the beatings and only remember Dad sitting at the breakfast table reading the newspaper?

Absolutely not. You remember them for who they were, good and bad. But what I'm saying is that when we think of the bad, hate doesn't help us. Derision doesn't help us. Anger doesn't help us. Compassion and understanding are what help us. When we think of a father who maybe beat us, we can feel compassion for him, for being the type of man who would do that, and for who must have had terrible things going on inside his head. We can feel sympathy for a man who never felt love or family the way we feel he should have.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you if this is your personal experience. I'm just trying to explain my thinking.

zabadu: So, we should also have compassion and understanding for Charlie Manson when he dies too?

As much as we can, yes. True sociopaths are perhaps the hardest people to feel for, but the lack of compassion is mark against us, not against them.

Well, sorry, can't agree with you on this one. Personally, no, I have never been beaten by my parents. However, to say that we have to have compassion and understanding that someone who does this is messed up, well, sorry, no. If you're so messed up that you beat someone, or molest someone, GET HELP.

As for true sociopaths, compassion is wasted on them. They are not reformable.

Thankfully my radio stations havent bothered to play any of his music. They covered his death for about 5 minutes.

It's nice having independent radio stations

DamnYankees: madmann: If I don't like you when you're breathing, odds are that I'm not going to like you any better when you stop.

You don't have to like anyone. But compassion, understand, sympathy - these are the things we should be striving for whenever we think of anyone. And when someone dies and can no longer do any active harm, there's no reason to *not* feel those things.

I'm not sure which position you hold... that everyone, regardless of the distastefulness of their actions, is deserving of our understanding, compassion or sympathy (I strongly disagree) OR that once someone dies, the act of death somehow MAKES them deserving of our understanding, compassion & sympathy (I couldn't disagree more).

Either way... some people are simply pieces of shiat. To remember only the good parts of someone's life is not only dishonest revisionist history, it borders on the delusional.

Odd story here, btw. The psychiatrist who went to the cops telling them that Jackson molested the first kid in 1993 is a family friend of my parents. He would come over for dinner pretty often. Really nice guy.

I am sick of hearing about it. The media always overplays it when celebrities die. Fark them. They made a lot of money, but it did not save them from either a freakish life or an inevitable death. And for those who say that he died too early, where have you been? people die at 50 regularly, especially when they have had so many mental and physical problems as he has had.

Let it go, news media. Let it go.

zabadu: Well, sorry, can't agree with you on this one. Personally, no, I have never been beaten by my parents. However, to say that we have to have compassion and understanding that someone who does this is messed up, well, sorry, no. If you're so messed up that you beat someone, or molest someone, GET HELP.

You misunderstand me. I'm talking after the fact, once no more harm can be done. So with the father, I was talking about at the time of his death, when the child is thinking back. When you are in the moment, you do what is necessary to protect yourself and other people, absolutely. You get help. I'm just talking about reflecting on people who can no longer do us harm.

zabadu: As for true sociopaths, compassion is wasted on them. They are not reformable.

The compassion is not for them. It's for us.

madmann: I'm not sure which position you hold... that everyone, regardless of the distastefulness of their actions, is deserving of our understanding, compassion or sympathy (I strongly disagree) OR that once someone dies, the act of death somehow MAKES them deserving of our understanding, compassion & sympathy (I couldn't disagree more).

The former. It's just easier to talk about after death, since it removes all the complicating factors of having to protect oneself. But ideally yes, you should be compassionate and understanding all the time for everyone. No question.

madmann: Either way... some people are simply pieces of shiat. To remember only the good parts of someone's life is not only dishonest revisionist history, it borders on the delusional.

I don't advocate this. We need to remember the bad parts. But we need to do so with compassion and understanding*, but hate.

*I know I keep repeating those two words, but they really are the core of my belief on this matter.

Weasel3322: At this point I've tuned out all cable and network news due to the feeding frenzy on Jacko. Thankfully there's NPR.


The BBC on NPR was fellating MJ's corpse like there was some Robotussin in there for days after the death. What the fark is wrong with British people trying to prove they were never prejudiced?

/And now, a word about leaving your radio on at night.
//Leave your radio on at night.

Lest we forget:

EZ Writer: Lest we forget:

Haha. That's funny.

"Thirty percent said they followed the story very closely, though that number jumped to 80 percent among blacks"

It always surprises me to hear about African Americans (blacks) taking a huge interest in Michael Jackson. I've wondered, if I had been born black, would I take offense to someone who has spent countless dollars rearranging his body to appear white? Maybe its racist for me to even ponder such things, and maybe I don't get it because I am white. It just seems sad to me that a hero to one race would strive to appear as another race.

Excen:

Give it a decade and Jackson will be just as musically irrelevant as Elvis, except your kids will be saying, "Eeew. I don't want to listen to that child rapist." instead of just saying the music sucks.

How is Elvis musically irrelevant now? Every music genre from Country to Hardcore Gangsta Rap borrows in some way, shape or form from the King.

richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

Seriously? You need a life. Worshipping celebrity is sad.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

If innocent, Jackson could have fought to regain his rep by NOT settling and going completely through the system.

2) Both trials had some rather compelling evidence that favored Jackson. The first child had a history of false accusations, and the second child was part of a potentially baseless witch hunt for kids who would be willing to say Jackson touched them in exchange for cash.

Both trials had children and families scared out of their minds by worshippers like you appearing on their doorstep threatening violence. How does a child have a history of false accusations? If Jackson had not slept in beds with children, he wouldn't have set himself up for the supposed "witch hunt" you claim.

3) Even if he did commit these crimes, at what point do you say the sentence has been served? Is millions upon millions of dollars lost and a tarnished reputation for the rest of his life not enough?

What sentence? He never served any time. Again, Jackson himself set himself up for the "tarnished rep" by sleeping in the same bed as children.

4) The man is farking dead. To dismiss his legacy or reduce him to a couple trials is understandable with, like, Hitler. But Michael freakin' Jackson? I'm still at a loss. :(

His legacy, other than being a loon, is as a singer. He dubbed himself "King of Pop", no one else did. And it's lemmings like you that will carry his "legacy" into the future.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Well, sorry, can't agree with you on this one. Personally, no, I have never been beaten by my parents. However, to say that we have to have compassion and understanding that someone who does this is messed up, well, sorry, no. If you're so messed up that you beat someone, or molest someone, GET HELP.

You misunderstand me. I'm talking after the fact, once no more harm can be done. So with the father, I was talking about at the time of his death, when the child is thinking back. When you are in the moment, you do what is necessary to protect yourself and other people, absolutely. You get help. I'm just talking about reflecting on people who can no longer do us harm.

zabadu: As for true sociopaths, compassion is wasted on them. They are not reformable.

The compassion is not for them. It's for us.

I have no problem going forth in this world having no compassion for people like Manson or Jackson.

Being dead does not absolve someone of their evil.

zabadu:
What sentence? He never served any time. Again, Jackson himself set himself up for the "tarnished rep" by sleeping in the same bed as children.

Honest question - do you believe he lived anything other than a tortured life? That guy had a horrible psychological makeup. I mean, torturous. Maybe he didn't ever walk into a literal cell, but he lived a hellish life I would not want. Why is that not enough to feel compassion?

zabadu: I have no problem going forth in this world having no compassion for people like Manson or Jackson.

Being dead does not absolve someone of their evil.

I just don't see what it gains you, to hold that hatred inside. All it does it add hatred and anger to the world, something we surely don't need more of. I believe it makes us better men to forgive as much as we can, to understand each other as best we can, and to extend a compassionate hand whenever possible.

DamnYankees: zabadu:
What sentence? He never served any time. Again, Jackson himself set himself up for the "tarnished rep" by sleeping in the same bed as children.

Honest question - do you believe he lived anything other than a tortured life? That guy had a horrible psychological makeup. I mean, torturous. Maybe he didn't ever walk into a literal cell, but he lived a hellish life I would not want. Why is that not enough to feel compassion?

Because you cannot have compassion for people who bring innocents into their private misery. Being messed up does not give you permission to mess up other people.

DamnYankees: zabadu: I have no problem going forth in this world having no compassion for people like Manson or Jackson.

Being dead does not absolve someone of their evil.

I just don't see what it gains you, to hold that hatred inside. All it does it add hatred and anger to the world, something we surely don't need more of. I believe it makes us better men to forgive as much as we can, to understand each other as best we can, and to extend a compassionate hand whenever possible.

What you conceive as "hate", I conceive as "pay no mind". We do not have to tolerate these kind of people.

richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

What is proof? You have Michael Jackson admitting he has an unnatural attraction toward children, he thought it was ok to sleep in the same bed as a strange child, and a $20,000,000 settlement! If that's not an admission that the trial was eventually headed toward a victory for the party that instigated the litigation, I don't know what is!

2) Both trials had some rather compelling evidence that favored Jackson. The first child had a history of false accusations, and the second child was part of a potentially baseless witch hunt for kids who would be willing to say Jackson touched them in exchange for cash.

If you believe that wasn't anything other than quality, lizard-like legal character assassination, ask yourself if you would have let your own flesh and blood sleep over at Neverland Ranch. If you answered yes, please don't breed.

3) Even if he did commit these crimes, at what point do you say the sentence has been served? Is millions upon millions of dollars lost and a tarnished reputation for the rest of his life not enough?

No. Pedophilia is a criminal offense, punishable by incarceration for an indeterminate amount of time in a facility for the criminally insane (until cured of an incurable disease) as a maximum offense. Jackson deserved to go to prison or a psychiatric facility, but due to overwhelming legal defenses, got off like OJ.

4) The man is farking dead. To dismiss his legacy or reduce him to a couple trials is understandable with, like, Hitler. But Michael freakin' Jackson? I'm still at a loss. :(

See Weenergord's post. He was a depraved pervert, and the fact the American public cannot see this due to a bunch of music that he didn't even create himself is why popular art is dead in a sociocultural sense.

/Buh-buh-buh-but he wrote Thriller!
//No, actually that was Rod Temperton (according to Wikipedia)

CoJoeTheLawyer: How is Elvis musically irrelevant now? Every music genre from Country to Hardcore Gangsta Rap borrows in some way, shape or form from the King.

I think that there's a point at which the person/thing who influenced something becomes irrelevant. Is Gutenberg relevant? Is Columbus relevant? Is Strabo relevant? Is classical Greek relevant? Is Vitruvius relevant? We must be careful not to confuse "relevant" with "historically important"; they are two very different terms.

Freakjob_0: What about Billy Mays???

I was watching the Pitchmen marathon last night (even though they only had a handful of episodes) and I'm actually more sad about him than MJ. He was a great guy who loved what he did and was really good at it. Taken too soon.

/that dual saw actually looked pretty badass

Sir Vanderhoot: Freakjob_0: What about Billy Mays???

I was watching the Pitchmen marathon last night (even though they only had a handful of episodes) and I'm actually more sad about him than MJ. He was a great guy who loved what he did and was really good at it. Taken too soon.

/that dual saw actually looked pretty badass

Yeah, I watched that last night and actually felt sad that he was taken at 50. He did seem like a genuinely nice man who loved what he did.

Excen: richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: MICHAEL JACKSON WAS A PEDOPHILE



So? Can you explain to me what is gained by hating him after his death?

Yeah, this. The majority of people seem to recognize just how great a loss this is, and a week later, I'm still unable to play anything else in my car just yet. But, some very, very quick-to-judge people are unwilling to look past the molestation trials. Get off your high horses and get a clue.

1) It remains completely unproven. It was settled out of court, which, considering the high-profile reputation at stake, is far from an admission of guilt.

What is proof? You have Michael Jackson admitting he has an unnatural attraction toward children, he thought it was ok to sleep in the same bed as a strange child, and a $20,000,000 settlement! If that's not an admission that the trial was eventually headed toward a victory for the party that instigated the litigation, I don't know what is!

2) Both trials had some rather compelling evidence that favored Jackson. The first child had a history of false accusations, and the second child was part of a potentially baseless witch hunt for kids who would be willing to say Jackson touched them in exchange for cash.

If you believe that wasn't anything other than quality, lizard-like legal character assassination, ask yourself if you would have let your own flesh and blood sleep over at Neverland Ranch. If you answered yes, please don't breed.

3) Even if he did commit these crimes, at what point do you say the sentence has been served? Is millions upon millions of dollars lost and a tarnished reputation for the rest of his life not enough?

No. Pedophilia is a criminal offense, punishable by incarceration for an indeterminate amount of time in a facility for the criminally insane (until cured of an incurable disease) as a maximum offense. Jackson deserved to go to prison or a psychiatric facility, but due to overwhelming legal defenses, got off like OJ.

4) The man is farking dead. To dismiss his legacy or reduce him to a couple trials is understandable with, like, Hitler. But Michael freakin' Jackson? I'm still at a loss. :(

See Weenergord's post. He was a depraved pervert, and the fact the American public cannot see this due to a bunch of music that he didn't even create himself is why popular art is dead in a sociocultural sense.

/Buh-buh-buh-but he wrote Thriller!
//No, actually that was Rod Temperton (according to Wikipedia)

Standing ovation

Harry Freakstorm: What's all this fuss about Micheal Jetson? Did he even have a television show as good as his brother George? And like his brother, was he an abusive yet decent husband who yelled when the dressing machine put him in a dress? Did he appreciate living in a time of flying cars and angry, probably killer robots?

And what I want to know is, where is my flying car dammit?

+111, would lol again. :D

/Never mind.

CoJoeTheLawyer: Excen:

Give it a decade and Jackson will be just as musically irrelevant as Elvis, except your kids will be saying, "Eeew. I don't want to listen to that child rapist." instead of just saying the music sucks.

How is Elvis musically irrelevant now? Every music genre from Country to Hardcore Gangsta Rap borrows in some way, shape or form from the King.

When's the last time you heard Elvis on the radio, aside from Kasey Kasom's show on the Oldies station?

/Oakenfold's Rubberneckin' remix doesn't count. Nobody listens to techno.

zabadu: Because you cannot have compassion for people who bring innocents into their private misery.

Why not?

zabadu: What you conceive as "hate", I conceive as "pay no mind". We do not have to tolerate these kind of people.

Have to? I suppose you don't 'have to' do anything. But we are lessened for it.

Sir Vanderhoot: Freakjob_0: What about Billy Mays???

I was watching the Pitchmen marathon last night (even though they only had a handful of episodes) and I'm actually more sad about him than MJ. He was a great guy who loved what he did and was really good at it. Taken too soon.

/that dual saw actually looked pretty badass

Billy Mays...was not my lov-ah!
He's just a guy who
sold lame stuff on TV!
And he's way...too..old for me! Whoo hoo hoo!

/sorry, had to do it

zabadu: Excen: richarizard: DamnYankees: Excen: WHARRGARBL--LEAVE MICHAEL ALONE!!!--WHARRGARBL


See Weenergord's post. He was a depraved pervert, and the fact the American public cannot see this due to a bunch of music that he didn't even create himself is why popular art is dead in a sociocultural sense.

/Buh-buh-buh-but he wrote Thriller!
//No, actually that was Rod Temperton (according to Wikipedia)

Standing ovation

What can I say, I watched Leverage last night. I was hoping for a flawless victory, but the cheap shot at Orenthal the Football Carrying Murderer knocked me down to a 9.9.

/I once pissed on Mark Fuhrman's front door
//Needless to say, I was shiatfaced

Legacy of A Loon, coming to a theater near you........ love it. I'm here shocked at the fact it's ONLY 64 %. Enough was enough 4 days ago. On the other hand, send out more Michael Jackson jokes.............

DamnYankees: zabadu: Because you cannot have compassion for people who bring innocents into their private misery.

Why not?

zabadu: What you conceive as "hate", I conceive as "pay no mind". We do not have to tolerate these kind of people.

Have to? I suppose you don't 'have to' do anything. But we are lessened for it.

Wow, just wow.

I hope you're never called to serve on a rape trial jury.

Let's have compassion for all the murderers, child rapists, rapists in general and psychopaths.

Oh, and this about the "perfect father"...

Michael Jackson used a slew of aliases to score prescription meds, and we know the two names that could unlock the key to gross abuse by Jackson and some prominent doctors.

We've learned Jackson frequently used the names Omar Arnold and Jack London to get powerful drugs, including Demerol. Jackson also used the name of one of his bodyguards, as well as the name of the office manager for one of his doctors.

The DEA, which is joining to assist the LAPD in its investigation of several doctors who prescribed drugs to Jackson, will be hunting down these names and others.

Sources tell us the prescription abuse was so egregious, one doctor would call the pharmacy and say Jackson was coming down to get Demerol. The pharmacy would then fill the prescription, leaving the patient's name blank.

All these pharmacists should serve jail time, as well as the doctors.

zabadu: Let's have compassion for all the murderers, child rapists, rapists in general and psychopaths.

Yes. We should.

zabadu: I hope you're never called to serve on a rape trial jury.

I hope I'm not either. That would be very tough to listen to. But I'd apply the law as necessary.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Because you cannot have compassion for people who bring innocents into their private misery.

Why not?

I think partly because we are hard-wired that way. We can, but it is a stretch. In more primitive times, having compassion for a perceived enemy might make you hesitate where such hesitation could cost you your life. I applaud your efforts, because compassion is important. But don't discount the importance of the emotions which have allowed us to survive as a species. Neither should be favored over the other in every circumstance. They all have their appropriate moments.

zabadu: What you conceive as "hate", I conceive as "pay no mind". We do not have to tolerate these kind of people.

Have to? I suppose you don't 'have to' do anything. But we are lessened for it.

Don't mistake compassion and understanding for tolerance. If you tolerate abuse, then you are either crazy, or a prophet bent on self-sacrifice. Or both. :)

wylkyn: I think partly because we are hard-wired that way. We can, but it is a stretch. In more primitive times, having compassion for a perceived enemy might make you hesitate where such hesitation could cost you your life. I applaud your efforts, because compassion is important. But don't discount the importance of the emotions which have allowed us to survive as a species. Neither should be favored over the other in every circumstance. They all have their appropriate moments.

100% true. It's not easy. It's often extraordinarily hard to do so. All I'm saying is that should be the goal, the thing we strive for.

wylkyn: Don't mistake compassion and understanding for tolerance. If you tolerate abuse, then you are either crazy, or a prophet bent on self-sacrifice. Or both. :)

Fair point. I won't lump them in together.

Marla Singer's Laundry: Sweet182: Oh for fakr sake I'm so sick of hearing about it. He's dead. Move on.

You got a Halo tat on your butt? Way to think long-term.

Personally, I like girls with bad tattoos. It shows they can make quick decisions that they'll regret later, improves my odds of picking them up....

Rhymenocerus: "Thirty percent said they followed the story very closely, though that number jumped to 80 percent among blacks"

It always surprises me to hear about African Americans (blacks) taking a huge interest in Michael Jackson. I've wondered, if I had been born black, would I take offense to someone who has spent countless dollars rearranging his body to appear white? Maybe its racist for me to even ponder such things, and maybe I don't get it because I am white. It just seems sad to me that a hero to one race would strive to appear as another race.

These are also the same people that consider Affirmative Action to be a benefit, rather than a hindrance to people of dark skin color, that disagreeing with any opinion, regardless of correctness, remotely involved with the accountability of "black" culture racist and that George Bush really does hate black people. Plus, they also would call the Spanish celebration of Semana Santa racist, but I digress.

/Wikipedia it! I was drunk on St. Patrick's Day 2008 dodging midget klansmen in the streets!

BigJakeW: Legacy of A Loon, coming to a theater near you........ love it. I'm here shocked at the fact it's ONLY 64 %. Enough was enough 4 days ago. On the other hand, send out more Michael Jackson jokes.............

How do you know when it's time to go to bed at Neverland Ranch?
When the big hand is on the little hand!

What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a grocery bag?
One is white, made out of plastic, and dangerous for kids to play with and the other you carry your groceries in.

What has 18 balls and 3 pubic hairs?
A slumber party at Michael Jackson's house.

What does Michael Jackson consider a "Perfect 10"?
Two five-year-olds.

Knock Knock!
Who's There?
Little boy blue!
Little boy blue who?
Michael Jackson!!

/I could keep going. . .

I heard that the cause of death was that he ate some ten year old nuts.

DamnYankees: zabadu: Well, sorry, can't agree with you on this one. Personally, no, I have never been beaten by my parents. However, to say that we have to have compassion and understanding that someone who does this is messed up, well, sorry, no. If you're so messed up that you beat someone, or molest someone, GET HELP.

You misunderstand me. I'm talking after the fact, once no more harm can be done. So with the father, I was talking about at the time of his death, when the child is thinking back. When you are in the moment, you do what is necessary to protect yourself and other people, absolutely. You get help. I'm just talking about reflecting on people who can no longer do us harm.

zabadu: As for true sociopaths, compassion is wasted on them. They are not reformable.

The compassion is not for them. It's for us.


Too bad that in your world, compassion for "us" does not include justice for "us." You are planning to be a defense lawyer, aren't you? With a passion for submission to criminals, perhaps? Do you get off on submission?

You were raised orthodox Jew. How do you feel about the fact that Debby Rowe is a Jew, therefore her children are Jews, and they are presently held captive by the Nation of Islam? You gonna turn your back on them too? Will that excite your submission thrill for you?
Do you fancy yourself some kind of Christian martyr?

WeenerGord: Too bad that in your world, compassion for "us" does not include justice for "us."

Yes it does.

WeenerGord: You were raised orthodox Jew. How do you feel about the fact that Debby Rowe is a Jew, therefore her children are Jews, and they are presently held captive by the Nation of Islam? You gonna turn your back on them too? Will that excite your submission thrill for you?
Do you fancy yourself some kind of Christian martyr?

Um. What?

DamnYankees: Odd story here, btw. The psychiatrist who went to the cops telling them that Jackson molested the first kid in 1993 is a family friend of my parents. He would come over for dinner pretty often. Really nice guy.


So perhaps your defense of MJ is rebellion against your parents? Way to make it be all about you.

dewihafta: Spoonfed'sBuddy: Speaking of tattoos... is there anyone in this thread that has a Michael Jackson tattoo?

If any of you were going to get an MJ tat, would it be black mike or white mike?

How about both MJ's, back to back and one upside down. Sort of like an MJ tao.

/Doesn't matter if it's black or white


Maybe a playing card type motif might work well for that. I suppose a morbid person could also get the zombie Jacko with "6/2009 - Present" denoted underneath it.

Rhymenocerus: "Thirty percent said they followed the story very closely, though that number jumped to 80 percent among blacks"

It always surprises me to hear about African Americans (blacks) taking a huge interest in Michael Jackson. I've wondered, if I had been born black, would I take offense to someone who has spent countless dollars rearranging his body to appear white? Maybe its racist for me to even ponder such things, and maybe I don't get it because I am white. It just seems sad to me that a hero to one race would strive to appear as another race.

Know what's crazy? Al Sharpton said that "Michael made young men and women all over the world imitate us" on Tuesday.

What a whitewash. Michael made black people idolize him because he was able to make himself white. MJ was the ultimate "passer."

The real issues here are of black people's self-hate, their love/hate of the white people and their inability to deal with this in a way which is not destructive.

Wow, this has turned into quite the pissing match!

I give him his props for his musical and dancing prowess; I remember vividly when Elvis took his Final Dump (I was 21, and thought my Mom was going to faint when Brokaw came on the news with, "The King is dead!"), and this situation is very similar.

I think he was weird, and have no idea what the truth is as far has his diddling little boys. I know that I wouldn't let my son sleep over at Neverland, for any reason.

That being said, I agree with the poster who mentioned Stevie Ray Vaughan.

/RIP, SRV.

WeenerGord: You were raised orthodox Jew. How do you feel about the fact that Debby Rowe is a Jew, therefore her children are Jews, and they are presently held captive by the Nation of Islam? You gonna turn your back on them too? Will that excite your submission thrill for you?
Do you fancy yourself some kind of Christian martyr?

I wanna know what brand of foil you use in your hats. Very entertaining. +1