Perhaps a $25 dollar fee should be charged to the officer who writes a bad ticket. That might make them more careful about writing tickets and force them to err on the side of the driver under questionable circumstances. I understand that police officers would naturally be subject to a few bad calls a year or instances when a judge is in too forgiving a mood. Perhaps the first couple fines could be waived. The goal should be to have less congestion at the courts not to discourage people from standing up for themselves.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.
=======

! I LOVE YOU!

Hang On Voltaire: how is this any different than a poll tax?

This isn't meant to keep black people from voting. This is just meant to be douchey for the sake of being douchey.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.

As long as it was in good faith, and not proven malicious, they would just deduct it from their taxes at the end of the year, like uniforms, and bullets, it would be considered a cost of the job.

nytmare: "Her ticket was dismissed after she told the clerk she was unaware of the relatively new requirement for vehicles to move as far away as possible from parked emergency vehicles."

Ignorance of the law is an excuse now?


It worked for cabinet nominees.

austerity101: I have yet to figure out why we haven't adopted a loser-pays legal system. It would get rid of a lot of frivolous lawsuits, unclog the courts, and negate the necessity for these types of shenanigans.

Because, in a loser pays system, if there was a case of, say, "You vs Microsoft" you would be foolish to participate. Even if you were in the right, they have so much legal firepower that you might lose. And if you did, you would be instantly and completely bankrupt by how much you owed in their legal expenses. It would make it much easier for people with money to bully those without.

Codyl: GurneyHalleck: But then if we weren't spending trillions of dollars to keep rich people in the money, federal aid to states wouldn't need to get cut and the states wouldn't be so desperate to find revenue elsewhere.

Bring home the troops. Let the CEOs go without their golden parachutes.

CEOs don't get paid out of the state budget. Let the CEOs make whatever the fark a company is willing to pay them.

and tax the windfall based upon performance...

"sez here you ran a thriving company into the ground, put 10000 people out of work and cost your stockholders millions, yet you received 20 million dollars on your way out the door.

we'll take $19,999,990. thankyouverymuch."

we come in peace......shoot to kill.

If pleading "Not Guilty" and one is found guilty, the court fees should be double the original fine. Trying to work the system eh? PUNISHMENT!

If pleading "Not Guilty" and found innocent, the police should issue one an apology fee. Something to cover time spent dealing with an unnecessary hassle. $100.00?

Idiots. We all pay taxes to fund the courts anyways.

If it's overwhelming the courts, than either raise taxes or stop prosecuting small crimes and stick to the big stuff.

It's really not rocket science.

Came for the QuintesHMS_Blinkin: Now all the pigs have to do is give out tickets to everyone in sight and they're guaranteed $25 at least each time.

Not if each $25 collected means the state has to spend more than $25 on bringing the case to court.

How much do you think a judge makes in the 15 minutes he or she presides over a courtroom hearing a routine traffic case? Not to mention bailiffs, records keepers, building maintenance...

ds394: So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding. Turns out it was the wrong guy and he's totally innocent. He goes to court:

Judge: You're innocent of the crime. Please pay the $25 fee
Homeless: Ummm... I don't have any money
Judge: Bailiff! Take this criminal into custody. 5 days in jail for failing to pay court costs!

Look at the bright side... free room and board for 5 days!

Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating.

Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

SpectroBoy: austerity101: I have yet to figure out why we haven't adopted a loser-pays legal system. It would get rid of a lot of frivolous lawsuits, unclog the courts, and negate the necessity for these types of shenanigans.

Because, in a loser pays system, if there was a case of, say, "You vs Microsoft" you would be foolish to participate. Even if you were in the right, they have so much legal firepower that you might lose. And if you did, you would be instantly and completely bankrupt by how much you owed in their legal expenses. It would make it much easier for people with money to bully those without.

Good point. But even today, if Microsoft sued you, and you won, you'd still probably be bankrupt after the years it would take you to clear your name.

I guess we need to work on the concept of legal fees, as well. Perhaps our courts should help figure out exactly what a case is really worth. Maybe it should be a Loser *Lawyer* Pays legal system? Or maybe just at the civil/municipal level?

So here's the play.

Refuse outright. From the start. Write and date a letter, and have it stamped by a lawyer. Explain in the letter that you refuse to pay the $25 fee, and are pleading guilty.

You may be found guilty, or charged for contempt of court.

Appeal on constitutional grounds.

You will win, because charging for justice is illegal in the US.

As a bonus, you become a little more American Hero'ish.

NOT GUILTY. Not guilty. Damnit. :) Plead NOT GUILTY.

/bad typo

FarkinHostile: I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

No, no, no. How many times does this have to be explained?

Your taxes pay for the cousin/brother/BFF of the mayor/governor/state rep/etc to "work" at some state agency.

Essential services? That will cost you extra.

tombotia: CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

So the opposite of speeding is going below the limit? This is why real people don't consider whiners [re: speeders] arguments seriously.

Hey if you want to drive like a biatch, go right ahead, just stay the fark in the right lane.

"no person shall...be deprived...of property without due process of law"

-The Bill of Rights.

In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

Mongo cut wood: In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

that's new york. ours is retarded. it's different.

Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.

lajimi 2009-07-02 09:54:14 AM Let me understand this. Cops can go around and write as many bogus tickets as they want, guilty or not, legitimate violation or not, the state is going to win either way? Now THAT'S quite a system you have there.

See it's like the lottery... it doesn't matter who wins the $200 million powerball.. Uncle Sam always wins about the same amount in every freaking lottery!

Imagine that! a guaranteed powerball win everytime regardless of what the lottery numbers are! Actually you don't even have to play! someone just gives you the money period! everytime and IT's legit!

toonz: Mongo cut wood: In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

that's new york. ours is retarded. it's different.

eh, all n*ggers look alike to him...

Buckaroo Beeblebrox: Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating.

God I loved Brazil

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Hopefully in jail trying to figure out what they didn't do wrong.

Suck it Massholes.

mreuther: Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

I'm sorry, nationalized socialist utopia Michigan, did you just say something? The rest of America couldn't hear you over the sound of all our money being sucked into your pitiful, incompetent state.

Relax, the government knows how to spend your money better than you do. Just be quiet and let the drugs work.

I cannot believe Mass residents haven't raised more of an uproar. Having to pay for the privilege of defending yourself (with horrible odds) against state charges? It's too ludicrous for words.

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

Republitards aren't interested in less government. Conservatives are which is a whole different thing.

Things like this make me question my past assertion that the major outbreak of the next revolution will begin in Washington. The state, not city. It's starting to look like it might just flare up all over the country over a couple of weeks.

When that happens, may God have mercy on their souls for there will be none on Earth.

Pride of Cucamonga: I cannot believe Mass residents haven't raised more of an uproar. Having to pay for the privilege of defending yourself (with horrible odds) against state charges? It's too ludicrous for words.

It's been kept pretty quiet. Yay Newsertainment!
(shocking I know! but at least we know all about Michael Jackson's penis)

ds394: So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding. Turns out it was the wrong guy and he's totally innocent. He goes to court:

Judge: You're innocent of the crime. Please pay the $25 fee
Homeless: Ummm... I don't have any money
Judge: Bailiff! Take this criminal into custody. 5 days in jail for failing to pay court costs!

Or how long before many people start getting pulled over for things that are also difficult to prove otherwise?
Broken taillight? "Not cover broken. light flickers on or off"
No turn signal turning a corner or changing lanes? "Too early or too late I believe it is 100 BEFORE your turn"
Staying in the passing lane for more then 1 mile.NY MO
Not stopping 3 feet from the crosswalk?NY
Parking more then 6 inches from a curb? NY
Using vulgar language? "can be charged with assaulting an officer"
Not coming to a complete stop "30 seconds in MO is a complete stop"
This is wrong because it will be abused to make money.
Many more then i can think of.
To all that think this is a good idea, you will be included in this shakedown too.

toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.


I agree, but it was a Mass. thread and he has 7 homes (at least at one time he did) and the kids went to Ivy League schools. That's why he came to mind. Now if it was a Texas thread... Anyway, happy 4th weekend :)

Taxation without representation.

Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

I think you forgot about the part where we gave these companies billions of dollars to do that. Like someone else said above, they looted the Treasury right under our noses, and people don't even care.

atlanta_ufo: toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.


I agree, but it was a Mass. thread and he has 7 homes (at least at one time he did) and the kids went to Ivy League schools. That's why he came to mind. Now if it was a Texas thread... Anyway, happy 4th weekend :)

fair 'nuff. I have no love for Kerry.
Happy 4th to you too!

I'd be outraged by this but massholes are awful drivers so fark 'em.

CaesarSneezy: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

I think you forgot about the part where we gave these companies billions of dollars to do that. Like someone else said above, they looted the Treasury right under our noses, and people don't even care.

Cattle led to the slaughter without any though of what is to come.
Perhaps this is a warning that the evolution of human sociological development has become more of the "ME" not the "US" thinking.
Most people when asked will help themselves first, then will consider helping others, Their was a time when all people help their neighbors because it helped them by proxy and the species in general.
This might be how the end of us holding alpha predator begins.

Better buy your pitchforks now,before you won't be able to afford them.

luckyeddie: kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

I should like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir or madam.

To steal the content for your blog?

/that I will then steal for my facebook status

ChiefBoss: I'd be outraged by this but massholes are awful drivers so fark 'em.

we are.
but I'd actually rate Rhode Island and Houston, TX drivers worse.

I usually want to throttle NH drivers around here but since none of our highway/road money ever seems to go into adequate signage, I usually assume that they just aren't psychic and don't know the weird triple lindy move they need to make, sliding through a mail slot's worth of space between two lanes to make the turn at one of our quaint antiquated 5-way intersections. And if that makes sense to you, congratulations, you're a Massachusetts driver.

toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

I guess you're supposed to tip the officer $25 for just giving you a warning ticket.

UnspokenVoice: toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

i have a job.
grow up, tough guy.

UnspokenVoice:

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

Oh and if you like to reward massive failure, good luck with that. sorry if my fark comment (that's, like, one step below national policy!) broke your hymen.