I fully expect to see a lot more of this kind of thing cropping up all over the country.

To overturn such things -- assuming the courts or legislature fails to -- means a ton of activism, supporting and campaigning for new state legislature candidates, donating and helping to raise money for them, and should they get elected riding their asses like a Harley until they change the law.

Or you could just OBEY, pay the fine for being completely innocent, and hope against nothing that the state doesn't deem the program a success then institute more fines for lawful behavior.

America: land of the free screwed.

Deval really wants a new job, come next election, huh?

Okay. I'll help.

(too bad our "choices" will probably be equally useless crooks)

I hear Charleston is nice. I promise not to bring our weapons grade political stupid with me and an actual appreciation for both sides' arguments with regard to the War Between the States. I just want to fish, eat bbq and live in more than a shoebox for $500K. Other than the accent you won't even know I'm a yank. I promise.fark this state. I'm done.

Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

FarkinHostile: I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

The concept is that the criminal courts exist because there are criminals and criminals should pay for the existence of criminal courts with court costs. Charging people to even have access to a trial is ludicrous and completely unconstitutional

PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

MasterThief: This isn't criminal law; traffic fines are administrative (they only get criminal if you don't pay).

kronicfeld: That's a false dichotomy. All the constitutional protections still apply. Particularly given that many traffic infractions are punishable as misdemeanors.

I don't think he was saying the constitution doesn't apply, he was saying it wasn't considered criminal law so you wouldn't want to look at someone who specialized in criminal law.

"Are you refusing to accept my plea?"

The sentiment has been echoed in this thread already, but bears repeating:

If you get cited for anything, and found not guilty, you should OWE NOTHING! I've gotten a number of tickets founded in error (forgot my new ins card/cop read my license plate wrong) and was still on the hook for "court costs/fee" after acknowledgment of my innocence.

FTA: "If you're found not at fault, you should be cleared of all of it," Ms. Holman said. "If that's not the case, then it seems police could be pulling people over for all sorts of things."

Not to worry, Ms. Holman. Police only serve and protect the public good, an are agents of safety enforcement, so there's no chance of this policy being used as an additional revenue generator for the state.

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Using public transit.

You know, back in the day, when a government becomes corrupt enough to use the justice system as a thinly veiled way to make money, they'd meet the guillotine. I think we should bring back the traditional ways.

budsterr: Freedom ain't free.

/Wait, what?

Well it just went from a buck oh five to $25

Seacop: skinink: Don't speed by a cop having a bad day? I don't care that some cop has a bug up his ass, like a cop probably wouldn't care that a bad day might be the reason for my speeding. They just need to stick to doing their job, not going on personal vendettas.

Hook, line and sinker? Or a 10/10?

Hell, and I wasn't even trying to troll.

No wonder there's so many trolls here, though: it's too damn easy to hook people in.

my last ticket for speeding was 142.50.

the actual fine for the infraction, allowed by law in my state, was $25.

Mr. Vincent Vega: So you fee me 'cause of your mutha'uckin' fee?

Yes! I was thinking this.

OMG, Please nuke this idea from space before every other town, city and state will start doing it!

wmoonfox: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

DC and Boston have been doing this for quite some time -- only they charge substantially more. Barring any major constitutional challenge, which I don't see being mounted any time soon, I predict this will become the norm across the nation sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure DC doesn't... I had to go in to contest some tickets before a judge and all were dismissed without me having to pay anything. This was only a year and a half ago.

My car was parked in front of a tree the city decided to remove. There were no signs indicating so when I parked there. They moved my car to another block where you're not supposed to park during certain hours of the day, resulting in a fair number of tickets. This was when I would walk to work, and often not use my car for days or weeks at a time.

Mose: PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

don't forget applying the sales tax to alcohol

bonus, it all goes into effect before my wedding , which we're already too far committed to pull out.

so while dickweeds who got gubmint assistance priced me out of the housing market here are getting free money I get to put more in teh kitty.fark this state. fark the democrats, fark the republicans for going jesus freak and corporate cocksucker weapons-grade full retard and making the dems look like a reasonable alternative. you knwo waht...?

just fark everybody.

Go North Korea.

Take my fellow "countrymen" out. I've farking had it with the lot of ya. and if I die too, so what? What's the point of working hard saving my money and every time I start getting ahead just having some cock move the goalposts on me so rich banker farks and irresponsible pseudo yuppie pigs and wanna be's who didn't need the McMansion get free money?fark this

CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Mood rings for cop cars. I love it.

At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

I am soooo glad I don't live in this farked up Country.

Debtors prison's and now you have to Pay to prove you're innocent.

Here is your future USA Justice (new window)

And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

I'm fairly certain this is unconstitutional. It's basically a punishment meted out before any conviction could be reached. Also, it's begging to be abused. I think they could only justify it if it were an administrative fee commensurate with the true cost of administering the not guilty plea. Even then, how can the courts charge you for a cop's fark-up? I will never live in MA.

/Just DC - D'oh!

tombotia: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

Should be $25 unless you win your case. Then that'd be fair. Because honestly, if you don't drive like an asshole you're probably not going to get a ticket anytime soon, and the small majority of people ACTUALLY in the right will likely win their court case and not be out the $25.

The rest of the jackasses who claim they didn't notice the red, or that 65 really meant 95 ... can pay the 25 and their ticket.

You shouldn't have to pay either way.

Doesn't matter. You could impose a breathing tax, a shiatting tax, a sleeping tax, a breeding tax, coin operating benches, side walk fees and massholes would still live there. Cause it's still the best place on earth right guys?

Ya'll could always revolt since you won't move... wait, you got rid of all the guns didn't you?

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Standing in line to pay a 25.00 "showing up" fee with their pants around their ankles?

Is anybody even paying attention as this country slides into Mussolini land? A bunch of rich wankers - with the aid of the Bush administration - pocketed the entire freaking treasury and now we're supposed to replace it by working our asses off and handing out every nickel to anybody with a gun or a suit?

It's time to start burning sh*t down, folks.

Hang On Voltaire

The concept is that the criminal courts exist because there are criminals and criminals should pay for the existence of criminal courts with court costs.


Actually, criminal courts exist to try CITIZENS accused of a crime. Guilty and innocents alike, and even the guilty are Citizens (well, some of them, but that is another topic).

I pay taxes for public school, and I don't have children. Do parents pay additional administrative fees for their children to attend public schools? Why should any citizen pay extra for something we are already taxed for?

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

"Attention cops, this is your captain speaking.

We're under budget this month. Please take these pre-printed tickets and pass them out to as many people as possible. Don't bother explaining yourself, they'll have their day in court. If they resist, arrest them. If they mention the fourth ammendment, taze them. If someone films you doing it, we'll send them to Guantanamo.

Happy Hunting."

Ryan2065: I don't think he was saying the constitution doesn't apply, he was saying it wasn't considered criminal law so you wouldn't want to look at someone who specialized in criminal law.

Yep. Administrative law is its own weird little Alice-in-Wonderland world. Pretty much the only Constitutional protections you get in an administrative hearing (which can be anything from a traffic ticket to a business license) is due process, which means that you get notice of the government's proposed action, an opportunity to be heard, and a requirement that any evidence the official/agency uses in taking action against you be public and on the record. But if you know how to work it, you can do a lot with those, or so I have heard.

On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

California to follow suit in 3, 2, 1.......

i am pretty sure this violates due process.

everybody obey the traffic laws to the letter

slow down traffic, slow down commerce. give the cops no reason to pull you over (it's all about safety right?) and kill this little cash cow.

then watch them tax farts.

still no repercussions for filing frivolous lawsuits, though.

toonz: Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

Yep, I agree. It's part of why we lost; I accept that. I'm even glad we lost (a bit). I wouldn't want to be responsible for Palin as VP.

MasterThief: On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

I'm all for bringing back poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.

Get the poor minorities out of politics and keep them in servitude.

What a wonderful country, huh?

Unconstitutional. Some lawyer will get pulled over just to get grounds to take it through the court system and it'll get tossed out.
Then all the people who were forced to pay it will sue to get back their money plus a bunch of other damages. Lots of lawyers will make a bunch of money and the taxpayer will lose.
Good going!

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

most of us are all for a logical reduction in government, however we don't like the other republican crap that is added along (wharrgarbl, limbaugh, crazy warmongering, greed).

/moderate, I say abolish both parties and start 100% fresh (not allowing any of those elected currently to take part in politics and make a rule of 0 donations allowed)

lajimi: Let me understand this. Cops can go around and write as many bogus tickets as they want, guilty or not, legitimate violation or not, the state is going to win either way? Now THAT'S quite a system you have there.

/ONE IF BY LAND STINK, TWO IF BY SEA PINK

FTFY

As a citizen of Massachusetts please know that I find this third world ruling disgusting, disgraceful, and humiliating. I regret and am embarrassed for voting for our current governor.

He does not stand a chance for re-election.

I Invented Crack: At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.


A traffic hearing usually only takes a couple of minutes. Twice I fought tickets, and neither hearing took more than 10 minutes, and I was aquitted on both of them. Tell me how 10 minutes=$25

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

They suddenly had a change of heart when Obama won and the government wasn't infallible.

Thisbymaster: This is why I bribe the cop instead of paying a fine.

My economics teacher suggested paperclipping a $50 bill to my license and handing that to the officer.

farkingatwork: /moderate, I say abolish both parties and start 100% fresh (not allowing any of those elected currently to take part in politics and make a rule of 0 donations allowed)

Sadly, that is going to necessitate a lot of hangings, shooting and very large fires because none of these hogs are going to get nudged from the trough while they have a pulse.

AnubisMan: a breeding tax,

"Are you suggesting we tax... thingie?"

I Invented Crack: At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.

Phony_Soldier: toonz: Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

Yep, I agree. It's part of why we lost; I accept that. I'm even glad we lost (a bit). I wouldn't want to be responsible for Palin as VP.

Yeah, I wasn't picking on you.
We need some REAL conservatism, and FAR less gubmint. I feel like we're in the empire's twilight. hopefully we can gradually fade and not collapse until after I'm dead.

I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

SchlingFocker: MasterThief: On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

I'm all for bringing back poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.

Get the poor minorities out of politics and keep them in servitude.

What a wonderful country, huh?

Not so much poll taxes, but I don't see why being able to read (even if it is in braile) the farking ballot shouldn't be a prerequisite to voting.

PirateKing

AnubisMan: a breeding tax,

"Are you suggesting we tax... thingie?"


I'd like to tax... Raquel Welch.