So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

THIS IS WRONG, JUST PLAN WRONG

Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

We're a corrupt Northeastern state, so this is just the natural progression of things. Charge the victim of injustice a fee for putting up a fight. Patrick Deval has been a rather large disappointment for our state.

But then if we weren't spending trillions of dollars to keep rich people in the money, federal aid to states wouldn't need to get cut and the states wouldn't be so desperate to find revenue elsewhere.

Bring home the troops. Let the CEOs go without their golden parachutes.

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

I should like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir or madam.

"We the jury find the defendant not guilty of all charges."

"Right you are. Bailiff, throw the defendant in jail for 30 days for being innocent."

They also upped the fee to appeal a magistrate's guilty finding to a real judge. It's $50 now. Magistrates are corrupt political appointees whose budget is paid for by the money they bring in from traffic cases. The hearing with a judge more resembles a real trial; most importantly the judge will expect a witness to the offense to testify against you. The ticketing officer rarely shows at the magistrate hearing because, the courts have said, the ability to appeal to a judge means there is no harm done if the magistrate violates the law.

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

Well, it's unconstitutional because...


RON PAUL

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

I'm sure DamnYankees will be happy to oblige.

Let me understand this. Cops can go around and write as many bogus tickets as they want, guilty or not, legitimate violation or not, the state is going to win either way? Now THAT'S quite a system you have there.

/ONE IF BY LAND, TWO IF BY SEA

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

It would seem to stand in contradiction to your Miranda rights, in that if you can't pay for legal representation it will be provided for you. It should not cost you one cent to represent yourself in traffic court to plead guilty.

I'd have to think more deeply about the Constitutional implications, but I think we can all agree that we don't penalize people for not breaking the law.

Forgot the *not* there.

The problem is, that if it really is necessary to have a fee to cover this cost, then it should only be imposed on those found guilty. You shouldn't have to pay a fee if you walk in and show the magistrate that the cop is a lying bastard who hates motorcyclists. Not that I'd know anything about that.

Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.

I came here to say exactly this. It's the only equitable solution. Which of course means that it will never occur in Massachusetts.

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

This isn't criminal law; traffic fines are administrative (they only get criminal if you don't pay).

Were I a lawyer, I'd try this: In administrative law, like all law, due process is expected under the 14th Amendment, and "the fundamental requisite of due process of law is the opportunity to be heard." Goldberg v. Kelly, 397 U.S. 254, 268 (1970). Due process that you have to pay for is not due process. Conditioning a hearing on the advance payment of a non-refundable fee deprives people of the opportunity to be heard in the same way that a poll tax (where you have to pay a fee before you can vote) denies people the right to vote, especially people without the financial means to pay the $25 to contest a ticket.

and that's why us Mainers call them MA55holes.

You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

Should be $25 unless you win your case. Then that'd be fair. Because honestly, if you don't drive like an asshole you're probably not going to get a ticket anytime soon, and the small majority of people ACTUALLY in the right will likely win their court case and not be out the $25.

The rest of the jackasses who claim they didn't notice the red, or that 65 really meant 95 ... can pay the 25 and their ticket.

Bad Housekeeping: and that's why us Mainers call them MA55holes.

3/15/1820
Never Forget!

CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

So the opposite of speeding is going below the limit? This is why real people don't consider whiners [re: speeders] arguments seriously.

EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

DC and Boston have been doing this for quite some time -- only they charge substantially more. Barring any major constitutional challenge, which I don't see being mounted any time soon, I predict this will become the norm across the nation sooner rather than later.

Diogenes: I'd have to think more deeply about the Constitutional implications, but I think we can all agree that we don't penalize people for not breaking the law.

Well, we didn't in the past. Mostly. If they weren't guilty-looking.

how is this any different than a poll tax?

EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

And that's not even taking into account the cost of feeding the meter in the first place.

what a shiatty thing to do, is this unprecedented or do other states already rip people off in this manner?

MasterThief: kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

This isn't criminal law; traffic fines are administrative (they only get criminal if you don't pay).

Were I a lawyer, I'd try this: In administrative law, like all law, due process is expected under the 14th Amendment, and "the fundamental requisite of due process of law is the opportunity to be heard." Goldberg v. Kelly, 397 U.S. 254, 268 (1970). Due process that you have to pay for is not due process. Conditioning a hearing on the advance payment of a non-refundable fee deprives people of the opportunity to be heard in the same way that a poll tax (where you have to pay a fee before you can vote) denies people the right to vote, especially people without the financial means to pay the $25 to contest a ticket.


I really don't have time to research this, but I would be looking for something along the lines of the First Amendment's right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. In any civil rights case against the government, if the citizen wins, they not only get their costs (including the filing fee), they also get reasonable attorney's fees paid by the offending agency. 42 U.S.C. 1988.

So happy I left MA years ago. State is a complete disaster.

I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

"CalvinMorallis 2009-07-02 12:03:40 PM
You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day."

Almost had me there...... 8/10

MasterThief: This isn't criminal law; traffic fines are administrative (they only get criminal if you don't pay).

That's a false dichotomy. All the constitutional protections still apply. Particularly given that many traffic infractions are punishable as misdemeanors.

Wow, I'm now waiting for the town to set up a booth right on the outskirts, and just hand out tickets to everyone entering. Seriously, just make shiat up, busted mirror, expired registration, whatever. I mean, if the person doesn't fight it, you get the fine, plus all the little add-ons that they have put over the year, until the 100 dollar ticket actually costs 250, or, they fight it, you get it dismissed, it costs you 2 bucks, and you make 25. That would be awesome. you would solve every budget problem you have.

Welcome to Massachusetts, that will be $25.

They do the same in PA, except here if you get a ticket and want to plead not guilty you have to pay the fine and court costs and fee to do so. Then if found not guilty you supposedly get your money back. But in order to get your day in court you have to pay the full fine and all fees associated with it first. There is even a fee for the court's computer system.

You know, I don't live in a state that does this, but if I ever got charged a $25 fee for pleading not-guilty, I would probably not feel the least bit bad if I then stole something worth twice or three times that much from the state.

tombotia: Should be $25 unless you win your case. Then that'd be fair. Because honestly, if you don't drive like an asshole you're probably not going to get a ticket anytime soon, and the small majority of people ACTUALLY in the right will likely win their court case and not be out the $25.

The rest of the jackasses who claim they didn't notice the red, or that 65 really meant 95 ... can pay the 25 and their ticket.

That's usually the way it works. When you get a speeding ticket and have to cough up $200+, chances are pretty good that anything over $80-$100 is "court costs", and you will be charged the full amount whether you contest the ticket in court or not. This "hearing fee", or whatever the hell they want to call it, is in addition to the court costs, and even the innocent have to pay it... presumably for wasting the judge's time.

tombotia: CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

So the opposite of speeding is going below the limit? This is why real people don't consider whiners [re: speeders] arguments seriously.


Are real people kind of like real Americans?

And besides, I was just being a jackass for the heck of it. You, however, seem to actually be a jackass :D

GurneyHalleck

But then if we weren't spending trillions of dollars to keep rich people in the money, federal aid to states wouldn't need to get cut and the states wouldn't be so desperate to find revenue elsewhere.

NO! If they got more money they would just spend more money, and you would be no better off. The only thing you can do is elect people who are genuinely concerned about runaway spending. Not sure if you can find any of those in Massachusetts.

This is the funniest thing that made me sad all morning.

It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Freedom ain't free.

/Wait, what?

This is why I bribe the cop instead of paying a fine.

ZAZ: They also upped the fee to appeal a magistrate's guilty finding to a real judge. It's $50 now. Magistrates are corrupt political appointees whose budget is paid for by the money they bring in from traffic cases. The hearing with a judge more resembles a real trial; most importantly the judge will expect a witness to the offense to testify against you. The ticketing officer rarely shows at the magistrate hearing because, the courts have said, the ability to appeal to a judge means there is no harm done if the magistrate violates the law.

Is there some way it could be pinned back on the Magistrates? What would it take for that? Or is that the whole "prove the harm done" thing?

Don't speed by a cop having a bad day? I don't care that some cop has a bug up his ass, like a cop probably wouldn't care that a bad day might be the reason for my speeding. They just need to stick to doing their job, not going on personal vendettas.

So you fee me 'cause of your mutha'uckin' fee?

FarkinHostile: I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

THIS THIS THIS, yes, THIS!

skinink: Don't speed by a cop having a bad day? I don't care that some cop has a bug up his ass, like a cop probably wouldn't care that a bad day might be the reason for my speeding. They just need to stick to doing their job, not going on personal vendettas.

Hook, line and sinker? Or a 10/10?

So, talk slowly enough to make up the $25 in employee time?

Yes they can!

I fully expect to see a lot more of this kind of thing cropping up all over the country.

To overturn such things -- assuming the courts or legislature fails to -- means a ton of activism, supporting and campaigning for new state legislature candidates, donating and helping to raise money for them, and should they get elected riding their asses like a Harley until they change the law.

Or you could just OBEY, pay the fine for being completely innocent, and hope against nothing that the state doesn't deem the program a success then institute more fines for lawful behavior.

America: land of the free screwed.

Deval really wants a new job, come next election, huh?

Okay. I'll help.

(too bad our "choices" will probably be equally useless crooks)

I hear Charleston is nice. I promise not to bring our weapons grade political stupid with me and an actual appreciation for both sides' arguments with regard to the War Between the States. I just want to fish, eat bbq and live in more than a shoebox for $500K. Other than the accent you won't even know I'm a yank. I promise.fark this state. I'm done.

Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

FarkinHostile: I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

The concept is that the criminal courts exist because there are criminals and criminals should pay for the existence of criminal courts with court costs. Charging people to even have access to a trial is ludicrous and completely unconstitutional

PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

MasterThief: This isn't criminal law; traffic fines are administrative (they only get criminal if you don't pay).

kronicfeld: That's a false dichotomy. All the constitutional protections still apply. Particularly given that many traffic infractions are punishable as misdemeanors.

I don't think he was saying the constitution doesn't apply, he was saying it wasn't considered criminal law so you wouldn't want to look at someone who specialized in criminal law.

"Are you refusing to accept my plea?"

The sentiment has been echoed in this thread already, but bears repeating:

If you get cited for anything, and found not guilty, you should OWE NOTHING! I've gotten a number of tickets founded in error (forgot my new ins card/cop read my license plate wrong) and was still on the hook for "court costs/fee" after acknowledgment of my innocence.

FTA: "If you're found not at fault, you should be cleared of all of it," Ms. Holman said. "If that's not the case, then it seems police could be pulling people over for all sorts of things."

Not to worry, Ms. Holman. Police only serve and protect the public good, an are agents of safety enforcement, so there's no chance of this policy being used as an additional revenue generator for the state.

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Using public transit.

You know, back in the day, when a government becomes corrupt enough to use the justice system as a thinly veiled way to make money, they'd meet the guillotine. I think we should bring back the traditional ways.

budsterr: Freedom ain't free.

/Wait, what?

Well it just went from a buck oh five to $25

Seacop: skinink: Don't speed by a cop having a bad day? I don't care that some cop has a bug up his ass, like a cop probably wouldn't care that a bad day might be the reason for my speeding. They just need to stick to doing their job, not going on personal vendettas.

Hook, line and sinker? Or a 10/10?

Hell, and I wasn't even trying to troll.

No wonder there's so many trolls here, though: it's too damn easy to hook people in.

my last ticket for speeding was 142.50.

the actual fine for the infraction, allowed by law in my state, was $25.

Mr. Vincent Vega: So you fee me 'cause of your mutha'uckin' fee?

Yes! I was thinking this.

OMG, Please nuke this idea from space before every other town, city and state will start doing it!

wmoonfox: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

DC and Boston have been doing this for quite some time -- only they charge substantially more. Barring any major constitutional challenge, which I don't see being mounted any time soon, I predict this will become the norm across the nation sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure DC doesn't... I had to go in to contest some tickets before a judge and all were dismissed without me having to pay anything. This was only a year and a half ago.

My car was parked in front of a tree the city decided to remove. There were no signs indicating so when I parked there. They moved my car to another block where you're not supposed to park during certain hours of the day, resulting in a fair number of tickets. This was when I would walk to work, and often not use my car for days or weeks at a time.

Mose: PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

don't forget applying the sales tax to alcohol

bonus, it all goes into effect before my wedding , which we're already too far committed to pull out.

so while dickweeds who got gubmint assistance priced me out of the housing market here are getting free money I get to put more in teh kitty.fark this state. fark the democrats, fark the republicans for going jesus freak and corporate cocksucker weapons-grade full retard and making the dems look like a reasonable alternative. you knwo waht...?

just fark everybody.

Go North Korea.

Take my fellow "countrymen" out. I've farking had it with the lot of ya. and if I die too, so what? What's the point of working hard saving my money and every time I start getting ahead just having some cock move the goalposts on me so rich banker farks and irresponsible pseudo yuppie pigs and wanna be's who didn't need the McMansion get free money?fark this

CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Mood rings for cop cars. I love it.

At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

I am soooo glad I don't live in this farked up Country.

Debtors prison's and now you have to Pay to prove you're innocent.

Here is your future USA Justice (new window)

And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

I'm fairly certain this is unconstitutional. It's basically a punishment meted out before any conviction could be reached. Also, it's begging to be abused. I think they could only justify it if it were an administrative fee commensurate with the true cost of administering the not guilty plea. Even then, how can the courts charge you for a cop's fark-up? I will never live in MA.

/Just DC - D'oh!

tombotia: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

Should be $25 unless you win your case. Then that'd be fair. Because honestly, if you don't drive like an asshole you're probably not going to get a ticket anytime soon, and the small majority of people ACTUALLY in the right will likely win their court case and not be out the $25.

The rest of the jackasses who claim they didn't notice the red, or that 65 really meant 95 ... can pay the 25 and their ticket.

You shouldn't have to pay either way.

Doesn't matter. You could impose a breathing tax, a shiatting tax, a sleeping tax, a breeding tax, coin operating benches, side walk fees and massholes would still live there. Cause it's still the best place on earth right guys?

Ya'll could always revolt since you won't move... wait, you got rid of all the guns didn't you?

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Standing in line to pay a 25.00 "showing up" fee with their pants around their ankles?

Is anybody even paying attention as this country slides into Mussolini land? A bunch of rich wankers - with the aid of the Bush administration - pocketed the entire freaking treasury and now we're supposed to replace it by working our asses off and handing out every nickel to anybody with a gun or a suit?

It's time to start burning sh*t down, folks.

Hang On Voltaire

The concept is that the criminal courts exist because there are criminals and criminals should pay for the existence of criminal courts with court costs.


Actually, criminal courts exist to try CITIZENS accused of a crime. Guilty and innocents alike, and even the guilty are Citizens (well, some of them, but that is another topic).

I pay taxes for public school, and I don't have children. Do parents pay additional administrative fees for their children to attend public schools? Why should any citizen pay extra for something we are already taxed for?

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

"Attention cops, this is your captain speaking.

We're under budget this month. Please take these pre-printed tickets and pass them out to as many people as possible. Don't bother explaining yourself, they'll have their day in court. If they resist, arrest them. If they mention the fourth ammendment, taze them. If someone films you doing it, we'll send them to Guantanamo.

Happy Hunting."

Ryan2065: I don't think he was saying the constitution doesn't apply, he was saying it wasn't considered criminal law so you wouldn't want to look at someone who specialized in criminal law.

Yep. Administrative law is its own weird little Alice-in-Wonderland world. Pretty much the only Constitutional protections you get in an administrative hearing (which can be anything from a traffic ticket to a business license) is due process, which means that you get notice of the government's proposed action, an opportunity to be heard, and a requirement that any evidence the official/agency uses in taking action against you be public and on the record. But if you know how to work it, you can do a lot with those, or so I have heard.

On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

California to follow suit in 3, 2, 1.......

i am pretty sure this violates due process.

everybody obey the traffic laws to the letter

slow down traffic, slow down commerce. give the cops no reason to pull you over (it's all about safety right?) and kill this little cash cow.

then watch them tax farts.

still no repercussions for filing frivolous lawsuits, though.

toonz: Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

Yep, I agree. It's part of why we lost; I accept that. I'm even glad we lost (a bit). I wouldn't want to be responsible for Palin as VP.

MasterThief: On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

I'm all for bringing back poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.

Get the poor minorities out of politics and keep them in servitude.

What a wonderful country, huh?

Unconstitutional. Some lawyer will get pulled over just to get grounds to take it through the court system and it'll get tossed out.
Then all the people who were forced to pay it will sue to get back their money plus a bunch of other damages. Lots of lawyers will make a bunch of money and the taxpayer will lose.
Good going!

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

most of us are all for a logical reduction in government, however we don't like the other republican crap that is added along (wharrgarbl, limbaugh, crazy warmongering, greed).

/moderate, I say abolish both parties and start 100% fresh (not allowing any of those elected currently to take part in politics and make a rule of 0 donations allowed)

lajimi: Let me understand this. Cops can go around and write as many bogus tickets as they want, guilty or not, legitimate violation or not, the state is going to win either way? Now THAT'S quite a system you have there.

/ONE IF BY LAND STINK, TWO IF BY SEA PINK

FTFY

As a citizen of Massachusetts please know that I find this third world ruling disgusting, disgraceful, and humiliating. I regret and am embarrassed for voting for our current governor.

He does not stand a chance for re-election.

I Invented Crack: At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.


A traffic hearing usually only takes a couple of minutes. Twice I fought tickets, and neither hearing took more than 10 minutes, and I was aquitted on both of them. Tell me how 10 minutes=$25

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

They suddenly had a change of heart when Obama won and the government wasn't infallible.

Thisbymaster: This is why I bribe the cop instead of paying a fine.

My economics teacher suggested paperclipping a $50 bill to my license and handing that to the officer.

farkingatwork: /moderate, I say abolish both parties and start 100% fresh (not allowing any of those elected currently to take part in politics and make a rule of 0 donations allowed)

Sadly, that is going to necessitate a lot of hangings, shooting and very large fires because none of these hogs are going to get nudged from the trough while they have a pulse.

AnubisMan: a breeding tax,

"Are you suggesting we tax... thingie?"

I Invented Crack: At only $25 dollars, the fine for a hearing cannot possibly cover all of the costs that it incurs. This makes me think that the chief motivation for the fine is so that less people will challenge their tickets.

Phony_Soldier: toonz: Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

If only your Party ACTUALLY acted like that.

Yep, I agree. It's part of why we lost; I accept that. I'm even glad we lost (a bit). I wouldn't want to be responsible for Palin as VP.

Yeah, I wasn't picking on you.
We need some REAL conservatism, and FAR less gubmint. I feel like we're in the empire's twilight. hopefully we can gradually fade and not collapse until after I'm dead.

I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

SchlingFocker: MasterThief: On a related note, I forwarded this article to my old Admin Law professor. He wrote back, "Depressing. We are no longer above putting a price tag on Due Process."

I'm all for bringing back poll taxes and literacy tests to vote.

Get the poor minorities out of politics and keep them in servitude.

What a wonderful country, huh?

Not so much poll taxes, but I don't see why being able to read (even if it is in braile) the farking ballot shouldn't be a prerequisite to voting.

PirateKing

AnubisMan: a breeding tax,

"Are you suggesting we tax... thingie?"


I'd like to tax... Raquel Welch.

EchoDork: I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

great Virginia and Massachusetts, once bastions of liberty...
wtf?

/wishes the civil war wasn't prompted by slavery, the Confeds had a good idea about how to govern otherwise.

sounds like belgium. my wife and some others were pulled over for speeding. they said she was going 50 km/h in a 30 zone. she was between the 50 sign and heading towards (but hadn't reached) the 30 one.

There was no radar gun there was nothing except the policeman to say how fast she was going.

i talked to one of my belgian staff members about this and he said it works like this...

pay the fine (200 euros) and plead guilty and they won't tell your insurance.

plead not guilty, spend a day at court (which in this commune means they will conduct it only in flemish), be found guilty and pay the fine plus court costs and then they will tell your insurance so they can hike your rate for you.

there were a couple of communes that were notorious for it. stockel was a big one since there were a lot of us military there (and the DOD school) and they rarely put up a fight in court.

EchoDork: I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

Or if you pay for tickets online. What does that fee go towards the sysadmin salary? I have an idea how about you put the ACTUAL amount on the ticket instead of the surprise 100+ dollar tickets for going 10 over.

Pleading innocent to a speeding ticket....that's a $25 paddlin.

Oh, government. Is there any way you haven't invented to fark us all up the ass?

How long before they start assessing all of us a sunshine tax (because sunlight is energy that we're all wasting by absorbing it and not converting to electrical power), a breathing tax (to offset the money they spend pretending to keep industries and cars from filling the air with pollution) and a rain tax (because water is a resource that, once it fills up the reservoirs, has to be treated before we can use it to drink and wash with)?

EchoDork: I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

thats because you don't read your consistution and learn the laws. Therefor you allow yourself to be controlled by your goverment.

"I'd still be here," Mr. McCob said after his hearing. "That wouldn't change my decision."


They are counting on that, buddy.

Sickening, but true.

Chivas Regal.
They want us to buy it for them.

/Is this some sort of test to see how far they can push us before we go into an all out civil war?

devildog123 2009-07-02 12:40:51 PM

Tell me how 10 minutes=$25

Getting paid $150 an hour.

/What do I win?

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." - Abraham Lincoln

Maybe.

I mean, it's just some words on a piece of paper.

theoriginalslash: Oh, government. Is there any way you haven't invented to fark us all up the ass?

How long before they start assessing all of us a sunshine tax (because sunlight is energy that we're all wasting by absorbing it and not converting to electrical power), a breathing tax (to offset the money they spend pretending to keep industries and cars from filling the air with pollution) and a rain tax (because water is a resource that, once it fills up the reservoirs, has to be treated before we can use it to drink and wash with)?

They'll do it as soon as enough lobbyists think it's plausibly profitable.

theoriginalslash: a breathing tax

Well, if one taxes CO₂ emissions, this is plausible...

I am really looking forward to leaving Massachusetts (2 months and counting) in order to live for a state that, by comparison, is a shining example of effective state government. Which says a lot considering I'll be moving to California.

The federal, state, and local governments are one large monopoly. We are their customers and no matter how much money they waste, if they need more, they always come back for for more ways to shake us down.

If found not guilty, shouldn't they pay you $25 for wasting your time?

bunner: farkingatwork: /moderate, I say abolish both parties and start 100% fresh (not allowing any of those elected currently to take part in politics and make a rule of 0 donations allowed)

Sadly, that is going to necessitate a lot of hangings, shooting and very large fires because none of these hogs are going to get nudged from the trough while they have a pulse.

Gotta love that whole "We follow the will of the people", huh. And people wonder why I say we're overdue for a political revolution (hopefully one that would end well).

tombotia: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

Should be $25 unless you win your case. Then that'd be fair. Because honestly, if you don't drive like an asshole you're probably not going to get a ticket anytime soon, and the small majority of people ACTUALLY in the right will likely win their court case and not be out the $25.

The rest of the jackasses who claim they didn't notice the red, or that 65 really meant 95 ... can pay the 25 and their ticket.

Absolutely, plus if the defendant wins the Law Enforcement Agency that wrote the bogus ticket in the first place has to pay $25 for wasting the time of the courts.

It's been a while since I got a ticket in California, but as I recall they had two fees on the ticket - the lower one was if you just shut up and mailed your fine in without going to court, and the higher one was if you challenged it and lost. Just mailing your payment in also had the added benefit of keeping the ticket off your record if you hadn't had another ticket in the past 18 months. Your insurance company wouldn't even find out about it.

Most people just payed the fine.

theoriginalslash Quote 2009-07-02 12:49:03 PM
Oh, government. Is there any way you haven't invented to fark us all up the ass?

How long before they start assessing all of us a sunshine tax (because sunlight is energy that we're all wasting by absorbing it and not converting to electrical power), a breathing tax (to offset the money they spend pretending to keep industries and cars from filling the air with pollution) and a rain tax (because water is a resource that, once it fills up the reservoirs, has to be treated before we can use it to drink and wash with)?

Dood, you exhale carbon dioxide just by breathing.

After so many breaths you will need to trade vouchers with someone who didnt take as many breaths, or pay a fine.

Or something like that...

This just in,

this country was built, maintained through some rough patches and sustained by firebrands, unreasonable men and vigilant hardasses who weren't afraid to die.

The pack of highbinders, gutless shopkeepers, revenuers and baloney merchants that we've turned it over to have slipped a leash over the jackbooted thugs they keep in badges and impunity and used them to put a foot to our necks and empty our pantries and pockets.

Maybe it's time to start paying attention to the results and a little less to the pretty words because if the only thing you need to pillage America is a silver tongue and a nice suit, we're lost, boyos. Lost.

So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding. Turns out it was the wrong guy and he's totally innocent. He goes to court:

Judge: You're innocent of the crime. Please pay the $25 fee
Homeless: Ummm... I don't have any money
Judge: Bailiff! Take this criminal into custody. 5 days in jail for failing to pay court costs!

That'll get struck down if challenged.

maybe this hasn't been suggested, but maybe the cop who wrongfully wrote the ticket should pay the $25

bunner: Maybe it's time to start paying attention to the results and a little less to the pretty words because if the only thing you need to pillage America is a silver tongue and a nice suit, we're lost, boyos. Lost.

At least we're making progress: we've gained the silver tongue, whereas, before, we were content with just the suit.

ds394

So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding.


How? In a shopping cart?

I fought the law, and the law won.

I live in MA. I said it at the last election and will say it again:
"Fire them all!"

I'm still chanting that it is time for another party to step up. Dems and Repubs....there has to be a better alternative.

Just popping in to add this is insanely un-American. But it's also nothing new.

In Ohio, for instance, everytime I've fought a ticket (quite a few) and either won or had the case dismissed due to technicality or whatever (also quite a few), the judge still orders you to pay the "court costs". Doesn't matter if I won or lost. I'm taking up the court's time, I gotta pay the costs costs. Which were like $54 last time. So, twice as much as Taxachusetts, and I won. Case dismissed, no points, no fine. See that nice lady over there to pay the "court costs".

Ugh.

This has been the policy in Rhode Island as long as I've lived here.

I just got a ticket for making a right on a "no turn on red" in Massachusetts and I went to the magistrate to fight it. I got the fine reduced from $100 to $50. What I didn't realize was that since it was a moving violation it would go on my insurance and stay on for the next 6 years. This would be about a raise in my insurance of $350 a year for 6 years or about $2000 total. This is strictly regulated by Massachusetts law. I have an otherwise clean record (no tickets, no accidents).

So you can see why it is absolutely necessary for MA citizens to fight every traffic ticket they receive when the real cost of every ticket will be in the thousands of dollars.

Englebert Slaptyback: ds394

So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding.


How? In a shopping cart?

Nah.

They'd get him for stumbling with intent to fall, aggravated window shopping, or malicious wandering.

In case you haven't noticed, the trend has been for cops to just make sh*t up, beat the piss out of you, electrocute you and then give you over to some jerkoff in a dress who takes your money. The law seldom enters into it.

There's a word for that.

Englebert Slaptyback: ds394

So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding.

How? In a shopping cart?

Fine... it's a red-light camera. His name is John Smith. The computer just sent him the ticket. Tada!

froopyscot: I am really looking forward to leaving Massachusetts (2 months and counting) in order to live for a state that, by comparison, is a shining example of effective state government. Which says a lot considering I'll be moving to California.

You son of a bit....take me with you.

/Moved from CA to MA last summer.
//Still waiting for a summer.....

toonz: Mose: PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

don't forget applying the sales tax to alcohol

bonus, it all goes into effect before my wedding , which we're already too far committed to pull out.

so while dickweeds who got gubmint assistance priced me out of the housing market here are getting free money I get to put more in teh kitty.fark this state. fark the democrats, fark the republicans for going jesus freak and corporate cocksucker weapons-grade full retard and making the dems look like a reasonable alternative. you knwo waht...?

just fark everybody.

Go North Korea.

Take my fellow "countrymen" out. I've farking had it with the lot of ya. and if I die too, so what? What's the point of working hard saving my money and every time I start getting ahead just having some cock move the goalposts on me so rich banker farks and irresponsible pseudo yuppie pigs and wanna be's who didn't need the McMansion get free money?fark this


Epic rant is epic.

Englebert Slaptyback: I'd like to tax... Raquel Welch.

+1 for MP

wgb423: devildog123 2009-07-02 12:40:51 PM

Tell me how 10 minutes=$25

Getting paid $150 an hour.

/What do I win?

A calculator. And since you won't need it, it will be donated to charity.

I'm too poor to live on the coasts, apparently.

Cynical 0: toonz: Mose: PowerSlacker: It's amazing how the colony that once brought us the Boston Tea Party has mutated into Taxachusetts.

Welcome to my hell.

/This on the heels of the idiot governor raising the sales tax by 1.5%, which is just the right perscription for encouraging consumers to go out and spend more
//god I hate this miserable state

don't forget applying the sales tax to alcohol

bonus, it all goes into effect before my wedding , which we're already too far committed to pull out.

so while dickweeds who got gubmint assistance priced me out of the housing market here are getting free money I get to put more in teh kitty.fark this state. fark the democrats, fark the republicans for going jesus freak and corporate cocksucker weapons-grade full retard and making the dems look like a reasonable alternative. you knwo waht...?

just fark everybody.

Go North Korea.

Take my fellow "countrymen" out. I've farking had it with the lot of ya. and if I die too, so what? What's the point of working hard saving my money and every time I start getting ahead just having some cock move the goalposts on me so rich banker farks and irresponsible pseudo yuppie pigs and wanna be's who didn't need the McMansion get free money?fark this


Epic rant is epic.

the coffee was especially good this morning.
I've relaxed a bit. got it out of my system. Don't really want y'all to die. sorry 'bout dat.

/still pissy tho'

Impasse

Englebert Slaptyback: I'd like to tax... Raquel Welch.

+1 for MP


Thank you, though .5 of that should go to PirateKing: his comment re: "thingie" was also from Python and was the basis for my comment.

Didn't you guys read the article? The court system needs the money! Stop complaining and do your part to keep government employees' pensions intact.

aegiswings: I just got a ticket for making a right on a "no turn on red" in Massachusetts and I went to the magistrate to fight it. I got the fine reduced from $100 to $50.

I'm assuming you did make a right while the light was red, so then why did you fight it?

Bin_smokin
I am soooo glad I don't live in this farked up Country.

Debtors prison's and now you have to Pay to prove you're innocent.

Here is your future USA Justice Link (new window)

Although I live here in the States, I have to agree with you. It upsets me that the average IQ is going down while the average waist size is going up.

18DeadMonkeys Radio: maybe this hasn't been suggested, but maybe the cop who wrongfully wrote the ticket should pay the $25

It's been suggested, but it bore repeating.

I have yet to figure out why we haven't adopted a loser-pays legal system. It would get rid of a lot of frivolous lawsuits, unclog the courts, and negate the necessity for these types of shenanigans.

EZ Cheez: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

No lie: There really was a Tree of Liberty in Boston. There is a plaque commemorating it on the spot where it stood.

That plaque is on the RMV building.

LadyHawke: wmoonfox: EvilEgg: So guilty or not they tag you for $25. That seems kind of unfair.

DC and Boston have been doing this for quite some time -- only they charge substantially more. Barring any major constitutional challenge, which I don't see being mounted any time soon, I predict this will become the norm across the nation sooner rather than later.

I'm pretty sure DC doesn't... I had to go in to contest some tickets before a judge and all were dismissed without me having to pay anything. This was only a year and a half ago.

My car was parked in front of a tree the city decided to remove. There were no signs indicating so when I parked there. They moved my car to another block where you're not supposed to park during certain hours of the day, resulting in a fair number of tickets. This was when I would walk to work, and often not use my car for days or weeks at a time.

Chicago used to be decent like that, but sometime in the late 90s they got ridiculous. For instance, in your situation, the tickets would have been upheld because a sign about the tree had been placed behind a hedge on the other end of the block, and you should have seen it. Also, you should have checked on your car to know it was receiving tickets on the other street. Decision: all tickets valid.

toonz: EchoDork: I live in Virginia. It costs $60 here. I had no idea that other states DIDN'T charge citizens with "court fees" even if they were found not guilty.

great Virginia and Massachusetts, once bastions of liberty...
wtf?

/wishes the civil war wasn't prompted by slavery, the Confeds had a good idea about how to govern otherwise.

Hmmm....

Massachusetts, Virginia and Pennsylvania...

Are they all listed as Commonwealths? common wealth?

GurneyHalleck: But then if we weren't spending trillions of dollars to keep rich people in the money, federal aid to states wouldn't need to get cut and the states wouldn't be so desperate to find revenue elsewhere.

Bring home the troops. Let the CEOs go without their golden parachutes.

CEOs don't get paid out of the state budget. Let the CEOs make whatever the fark a company is willing to pay them.

"Her ticket was dismissed after she told the clerk she was unaware of the relatively new requirement for vehicles to move as far away as possible from parked emergency vehicles."

Ignorance of the law is an excuse now?

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

This. Now all the pigs have to do is give out tickets to everyone in sight and they're guaranteed $25 at least each time. Rinse and repeat a couple of million times and you fix any budget problems pretty quickly.

Perhaps a $25 dollar fee should be charged to the officer who writes a bad ticket. That might make them more careful about writing tickets and force them to err on the side of the driver under questionable circumstances. I understand that police officers would naturally be subject to a few bad calls a year or instances when a judge is in too forgiving a mood. Perhaps the first couple fines could be waived. The goal should be to have less congestion at the courts not to discourage people from standing up for themselves.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.
=======

! I LOVE YOU!

Hang On Voltaire: how is this any different than a poll tax?

This isn't meant to keep black people from voting. This is just meant to be douchey for the sake of being douchey.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.

As long as it was in good faith, and not proven malicious, they would just deduct it from their taxes at the end of the year, like uniforms, and bullets, it would be considered a cost of the job.

nytmare: "Her ticket was dismissed after she told the clerk she was unaware of the relatively new requirement for vehicles to move as far away as possible from parked emergency vehicles."

Ignorance of the law is an excuse now?


It worked for cabinet nominees.

austerity101: I have yet to figure out why we haven't adopted a loser-pays legal system. It would get rid of a lot of frivolous lawsuits, unclog the courts, and negate the necessity for these types of shenanigans.

Because, in a loser pays system, if there was a case of, say, "You vs Microsoft" you would be foolish to participate. Even if you were in the right, they have so much legal firepower that you might lose. And if you did, you would be instantly and completely bankrupt by how much you owed in their legal expenses. It would make it much easier for people with money to bully those without.

Codyl: GurneyHalleck: But then if we weren't spending trillions of dollars to keep rich people in the money, federal aid to states wouldn't need to get cut and the states wouldn't be so desperate to find revenue elsewhere.

Bring home the troops. Let the CEOs go without their golden parachutes.

CEOs don't get paid out of the state budget. Let the CEOs make whatever the fark a company is willing to pay them.

and tax the windfall based upon performance...

"sez here you ran a thriving company into the ground, put 10000 people out of work and cost your stockholders millions, yet you received 20 million dollars on your way out the door.

we'll take $19,999,990. thankyouverymuch."

we come in peace......shoot to kill.

If pleading "Not Guilty" and one is found guilty, the court fees should be double the original fine. Trying to work the system eh? PUNISHMENT!

If pleading "Not Guilty" and found innocent, the police should issue one an apology fee. Something to cover time spent dealing with an unnecessary hassle. $100.00?

Idiots. We all pay taxes to fund the courts anyways.

If it's overwhelming the courts, than either raise taxes or stop prosecuting small crimes and stick to the big stuff.

It's really not rocket science.

Came for the QuintesHMS_Blinkin: Now all the pigs have to do is give out tickets to everyone in sight and they're guaranteed $25 at least each time.

Not if each $25 collected means the state has to spend more than $25 on bringing the case to court.

How much do you think a judge makes in the 15 minutes he or she presides over a courtroom hearing a routine traffic case? Not to mention bailiffs, records keepers, building maintenance...

ds394: So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding. Turns out it was the wrong guy and he's totally innocent. He goes to court:

Judge: You're innocent of the crime. Please pay the $25 fee
Homeless: Ummm... I don't have any money
Judge: Bailiff! Take this criminal into custody. 5 days in jail for failing to pay court costs!

Look at the bright side... free room and board for 5 days!

Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating.

Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

SpectroBoy: austerity101: I have yet to figure out why we haven't adopted a loser-pays legal system. It would get rid of a lot of frivolous lawsuits, unclog the courts, and negate the necessity for these types of shenanigans.

Because, in a loser pays system, if there was a case of, say, "You vs Microsoft" you would be foolish to participate. Even if you were in the right, they have so much legal firepower that you might lose. And if you did, you would be instantly and completely bankrupt by how much you owed in their legal expenses. It would make it much easier for people with money to bully those without.

Good point. But even today, if Microsoft sued you, and you won, you'd still probably be bankrupt after the years it would take you to clear your name.

I guess we need to work on the concept of legal fees, as well. Perhaps our courts should help figure out exactly what a case is really worth. Maybe it should be a Loser *Lawyer* Pays legal system? Or maybe just at the civil/municipal level?

So here's the play.

Refuse outright. From the start. Write and date a letter, and have it stamped by a lawyer. Explain in the letter that you refuse to pay the $25 fee, and are pleading guilty.

You may be found guilty, or charged for contempt of court.

Appeal on constitutional grounds.

You will win, because charging for justice is illegal in the US.

As a bonus, you become a little more American Hero'ish.

NOT GUILTY. Not guilty. Damnit. :) Plead NOT GUILTY.

/bad typo

FarkinHostile: I never understood the whole concept of "Court costs" that are levied every time you appear in court. I thought that what taxes were for, to pay for administration costs.

No, no, no. How many times does this have to be explained?

Your taxes pay for the cousin/brother/BFF of the mayor/governor/state rep/etc to "work" at some state agency.

Essential services? That will cost you extra.

tombotia: CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

So the opposite of speeding is going below the limit? This is why real people don't consider whiners [re: speeders] arguments seriously.

Hey if you want to drive like a biatch, go right ahead, just stay the fark in the right lane.

"no person shall...be deprived...of property without due process of law"

-The Bill of Rights.

In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

Mongo cut wood: In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

that's new york. ours is retarded. it's different.

Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.

lajimi 2009-07-02 09:54:14 AM Let me understand this. Cops can go around and write as many bogus tickets as they want, guilty or not, legitimate violation or not, the state is going to win either way? Now THAT'S quite a system you have there.

See it's like the lottery... it doesn't matter who wins the $200 million powerball.. Uncle Sam always wins about the same amount in every freaking lottery!

Imagine that! a guaranteed powerball win everytime regardless of what the lottery numbers are! Actually you don't even have to play! someone just gives you the money period! everytime and IT's legit!

toonz: Mongo cut wood: In MASS, Justice is blind as well as the Governor.

that's new york. ours is retarded. it's different.

eh, all n*ggers look alike to him...

Buckaroo Beeblebrox: Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating.

God I loved Brazil

cowtipn: Where are all the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" people now?

Hopefully in jail trying to figure out what they didn't do wrong.

Suck it Massholes.

mreuther: Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

I'm sorry, nationalized socialist utopia Michigan, did you just say something? The rest of America couldn't hear you over the sound of all our money being sucked into your pitiful, incompetent state.

Relax, the government knows how to spend your money better than you do. Just be quiet and let the drugs work.

I cannot believe Mass residents haven't raised more of an uproar. Having to pay for the privilege of defending yourself (with horrible odds) against state charges? It's too ludicrous for words.

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

Republitards aren't interested in less government. Conservatives are which is a whole different thing.

Things like this make me question my past assertion that the major outbreak of the next revolution will begin in Washington. The state, not city. It's starting to look like it might just flare up all over the country over a couple of weeks.

When that happens, may God have mercy on their souls for there will be none on Earth.

Pride of Cucamonga: I cannot believe Mass residents haven't raised more of an uproar. Having to pay for the privilege of defending yourself (with horrible odds) against state charges? It's too ludicrous for words.

It's been kept pretty quiet. Yay Newsertainment!
(shocking I know! but at least we know all about Michael Jackson's penis)

ds394: So let me get this straight:

Homeless guy gets a ticket for speeding. Turns out it was the wrong guy and he's totally innocent. He goes to court:

Judge: You're innocent of the crime. Please pay the $25 fee
Homeless: Ummm... I don't have any money
Judge: Bailiff! Take this criminal into custody. 5 days in jail for failing to pay court costs!

Or how long before many people start getting pulled over for things that are also difficult to prove otherwise?
Broken taillight? "Not cover broken. light flickers on or off"
No turn signal turning a corner or changing lanes? "Too early or too late I believe it is 100 BEFORE your turn"
Staying in the passing lane for more then 1 mile.NY MO
Not stopping 3 feet from the crosswalk?NY
Parking more then 6 inches from a curb? NY
Using vulgar language? "can be charged with assaulting an officer"
Not coming to a complete stop "30 seconds in MO is a complete stop"
This is wrong because it will be abused to make money.
Many more then i can think of.
To all that think this is a good idea, you will be included in this shakedown too.

toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.


I agree, but it was a Mass. thread and he has 7 homes (at least at one time he did) and the kids went to Ivy League schools. That's why he came to mind. Now if it was a Texas thread... Anyway, happy 4th weekend :)

Taxation without representation.

Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

I think you forgot about the part where we gave these companies billions of dollars to do that. Like someone else said above, they looted the Treasury right under our noses, and people don't even care.

atlanta_ufo: toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.


I agree, but it was a Mass. thread and he has 7 homes (at least at one time he did) and the kids went to Ivy League schools. That's why he came to mind. Now if it was a Texas thread... Anyway, happy 4th weekend :)

fair 'nuff. I have no love for Kerry.
Happy 4th to you too!

I'd be outraged by this but massholes are awful drivers so fark 'em.

CaesarSneezy: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

I think you forgot about the part where we gave these companies billions of dollars to do that. Like someone else said above, they looted the Treasury right under our noses, and people don't even care.

Cattle led to the slaughter without any though of what is to come.
Perhaps this is a warning that the evolution of human sociological development has become more of the "ME" not the "US" thinking.
Most people when asked will help themselves first, then will consider helping others, Their was a time when all people help their neighbors because it helped them by proxy and the species in general.
This might be how the end of us holding alpha predator begins.

Better buy your pitchforks now,before you won't be able to afford them.

luckyeddie: kronicfeld: Someone better versed in the criminal side of constitutional law than I am needs to articulate a basis for finding this unconstitutional, so that I can repeat it in subsequent discussions as if it were my own intellectual product.

I should like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir or madam.

To steal the content for your blog?

/that I will then steal for my facebook status

ChiefBoss: I'd be outraged by this but massholes are awful drivers so fark 'em.

we are.
but I'd actually rate Rhode Island and Houston, TX drivers worse.

I usually want to throttle NH drivers around here but since none of our highway/road money ever seems to go into adequate signage, I usually assume that they just aren't psychic and don't know the weird triple lindy move they need to make, sliding through a mail slot's worth of space between two lanes to make the turn at one of our quaint antiquated 5-way intersections. And if that makes sense to you, congratulations, you're a Massachusetts driver.

toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

I guess you're supposed to tip the officer $25 for just giving you a warning ticket.

UnspokenVoice: toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

i have a job.
grow up, tough guy.

UnspokenVoice:

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

Oh and if you like to reward massive failure, good luck with that. sorry if my fark comment (that's, like, one step below national policy!) broke your hymen.

UnspokenVoice: toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

Wow. You are a real jackass you know that?
I am not black "I am a potato" and i take offense to that, What does color have to do with it? Never mind. KF LOOSER

We have to pay for his pension!

I got a small business.

I pay my employees, (ok, atm, there's one), a good wage and I make sure they get paid before I do.

This seems to be a great motivator.

You are all accused of ten counts of first degree murder. For $150,000 fee you can plead not guilty unless your name is Bill Gates then we will charge you $15,000,000,000. If you don't plead not guilty we will shoot you at dawn in front of an audience we paid a lot of money to watch you die.

/Coming soon to the Sci Fi Channel crappy movie of the week.

TheMysteriousStranger: You are all accused of ten counts of first degree murder. For $150,000 fee you can plead not guilty unless your name is Bill Gates then we will charge you $15,000,000,000. If you don't plead not guilty we will shoot you at dawn in front of an audience we paid a lot of money to watch you die.

/Coming soon to the Sci Fi Channel crappy movie of the week.

You forgot they will be changing the name. To SyFy...ICK makes my geek all itchy just thinking about it.

SFlaxx: UnspokenVoice: toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

Wow. You are a real jackass you know that?
I am not black "I am a potato" and i take offense to that, What does color have to do with it? Never mind. KF LOOSER

So you're saying you are a fag? That's worse than being black. Get a job.

toonz: UnspokenVoice: toonz: Codyl: Toonz: What do you care if someone pays someone else $20M for running a company into the ground? That's not your business. What if that company paid their CEO only $100k to run a giant company that hired 10,000 people? Should the governemnt not tax that person at all? Should the governement give them an extra bonus?

No and no. Leave people alone and let people pay each other whatever they want for providing a good or service. The government should tax people a fair % of their income... If I pay someone to do work for me and they do a terrible job the government shouldn't tax them a higher % because of it.

Cody

so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?

fine we don't tax it, but how about a rule where your parachute gets a big percentage divided up by people who went on unemployment during your tenure BEFORE you get your share.

so mr makes 100k gets to keep all of his parachute for creating jobs, and Mr 20 mil gets 1 mil AND the 10000 people he put out of work get a "mere" $1900 (which they need MORE than he does, obviously) of his "reward"

way oversimplified. I know.

How about you keep your nose out of other people's business? I'll pay my employees what I want or what I can get away with, thanks. Don't like it? Get off your lazy black ass and get a job, do something other than feel self loathing and entitlement, and start a business of your own.

i have a job.
grow up, tough guy.

Then go do it and maybe you'll get PAID instead of feeling like you are entitled to determine someone else's pay scale.

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans Libertarians want less government in our lives.

pandabear: Upon a few seconds further reflection, the cop should pay the fee if the case is dismissed. That would be fun.

That was funny.

/Power to the people!

If everyone got together and just didn't show up for court or pay for the ticket, Is the state going to jail most of its population?

Time for some civil disobedience.

toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: atlanta_ufo: toonz: so the government gets to pay out welfare to the out of work while mr "Daddy got me into an ivy league school and someone did my homework for me" gets to buy waterfront homes #7 and 8?


The latter sounds like John Kerry and his kids.

i can think of another guy like that too, used his MBA expertise to do a number on the economy because idiots thought he talked like them and that a reformed alcoholic was a good 'drinkin' buddy.
(then the Dems thought it was a good idea to run Kerry against him, because NOTHING captures the imagination of America like a silverspoon massachusetts 'liberal'

criminy. Fail on both sides.

/Kerry's a douche, but let's not play the 'only one side's shiat stinks' game. that's a huge part of the problem.


I agree, but it was a Mass. thread and he has 7 homes (at least at one time he did) and the kids went to Ivy League schools. That's why he came to mind. Now if it was a Texas thread... Anyway, happy 4th weekend :)

fair 'nuff. I have no love for Kerry.
Happy 4th to you too!

Actually, it could be both Senators from Massachusetts. We all know Teddy didn't make it into Harvard on his brains.

UnspokenVoice: Then go do it and maybe you'll get PAID instead of feeling like you are entitled to determine someone else's pay scale.

you don't actually run your own business, do you?

be honest, Mr. "The Plumber".

This violates due process and the 8th amendment. They can't punish you for using your right to plead not guilty.

devildog123: Actually, it could be both Senators from Massachusetts. We all know Teddy didn't make it into Harvard on his brains.

that too.

Teddy was smart enough to figure out how to cheat at Harvard... just not smart enough to get away with it.

...and ju$t like $peed camera$ - it'$ all about $afety and not revenue of cour$e

/$uck it - traffic cop$

mikkidee: Teddy was smart enough to figure out how to cheat at Harvard... just not smart enough to get away with it.

Please people.
A little respect.
That's all water under the bridge now.

toonz: mikkidee: Teddy was smart enough to figure out how to cheat at Harvard... just not smart enough to get away with it.

Please people.
A little respect.
That's all water under the bridge now.

Ooch!

Ah, I see they pull your hotlink AFTER it loads on the initial post.

So it goes.

"Ah, it's a profit deal!"

/hot
//obscure-ish?

If you've done nothing wrong, you don't have anything to worry about, right?

oh, wait...

/ can't stress enough how elated i am to have left that shiathole of a state
// can't stress enough how pissed off i am to still have to drive through it all the time

Codyl: Gurn

I can see you're not paying attention to what's going on in the news. All those billions of dollars that are coming from your taxes are being used by these failing companies to pay the bonuses and golden parachutes of the CEOs whose greed started our fiscal problems this time.

WireFire2: This violates due process and the 8th amendment. They can't punish you for using your right to plead not guilty.

I thought the 8th amendment only applied to the federal government

however...

From the Massachusetts Constitution:
Article XI: Every subject of the commonwealth ought to find a certain remedy, by having recourse to the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property, or character. He ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it; completely, and without any denial; promptly, and without delay; conformably to the laws.

Article XII. No subject shall be held to answer for any crimes or offence, until the same is fully and plainly, substantially and formally, described to him; or be compelled to accuse, or furnish evidence against himself. And every subject shall have a right to produce all proofs, that may be favorable to him; to meet the witnesses against him face to face, and to be fully heard in his defence by himself, or his council at his election. And no subject shall be arrested, imprisoned, despoiled, or deprived of his property, immunities, or privileges, put out of the protection of the law, exiled, or deprived of his life, liberty, or estate, but by the judgment of his peers, or the law of the land.

And the legislature shall not make any law, that shall subject any person to a capital or infamous punishment, excepting for the government of the army and navy, without trial by jury.

toonz: WireFire2: This violates due process and the 8th amendment. They can't punish you for using your right to plead not guilty.

I thought the 8th amendment only applied to the federal government

however...

From the Massachusetts Constitution:
Article XI: Every subject of the commonwealth ought to find a certain remedy, by having recourse to the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property, or character. He ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it; completely, and without any denial; promptly, and without delay; conformably to the laws.

Article XII. No subject shall be held to answer for any crimes or offence, until the same is fully and plainly, substantially and formally, described to him; or be compelled to accuse, or furnish evidence against himself. And every subject shall have a right to produce all proofs, that may be favorable to him; to meet the witnesses against him face to face, and to be fully heard in his defence by himself, or his council at his election. And no subject shall be arrested, imprisoned, despoiled, or deprived of his property, immunities, or privileges, put out of the protection of the law, exiled, or deprived of his life, liberty, or estate, but by the judgment of his peers, or the law of the land.

And the legislature shall not make any law, that shall subject any person to a capital or infamous punishment, excepting for the government of the army and navy, without trial by jury.

Nice find. I think you'll find that "conformably to the laws" means whatever the legislature passes conforms. They really don't care anymore. Ever since the PATRIOT Act, the bailout (among other things), the government has known that they can do ANYTHING without fear of repercussion by the public at large. It is purposeful and transparent now. Something serious needs to happen before it changes.

toonz: UnspokenVoice: Then go do it and maybe you'll get PAID instead of feeling like you are entitled to determine someone else's pay scale.

you don't actually run your own business, do you?

be honest, Mr. "The Plumber".

Technically, yes I do however, in the spirit of being a Farker... Nope, not any more really. I am retired, thankfully. All I do do now is not really a "business" but rather I do a few tours (I'm a guide in my old age) each year but that's mostly because I want to as opposed to needing to do so.

Do that whole work thing, I know it is a four letter word, and you can retire too. Stop wallowing in your deluded entitlement phase and get your nose out of other people's business and *gasp* that white picket fence in the country is achievable. If you spent more time DOING instead of saying "give me give me give me" when it concerns something that you didn't earn and aren't entitled to then, well, yeah - maybe you can be in a position to be an ethical workplace leader.

But no, you'll probably be content to whine on the internet and wallow until you've nothing left to wallow about. Instead of becoming the ethical CEO you think the world needs you'll pretend your opinion matters and then post it on Fark.

NOOO!!! LET US MAKE PAYING PEOPLE ILLEGAL! LET US NEGATE LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACTS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ME THE SHARE I'M ENTITLED TO. NOO!!! LET'S BLAME THE CEO FOR farkING THE COMPANY OVER EVEN THOUGH I DO ONLY THE WORK REQUIRED TO NOT GET FIRED AND DEMAND EVERY BENEFIT KNOWN TO MAN AND A PAY RATE THAT IS WELL MORE THAN I AM WORTH!!!eleventy!!

Should I send you a baby bottle cleaner and a can of Boraxo so you can get the sand out of your vagina?

Oh, and could you top it off with premium unleaded and check my oil?

toonz: WireFire2: This violates due process and the 8th amendment. They can't punish you for using your right to plead not guilty.

I thought the 8th amendment only applied to the federal government

however...

From the Massachusetts Constitution:
Article XI: Every subject of the commonwealth ought to find a certain remedy, by having recourse to the laws, for all injuries or wrongs which he may receive in his person, property, or character. He ought to obtain right and justice freely, and without being obliged to purchase it; completely, and without any denial; promptly, and without delay; conformably to the laws.

Article XII. No subject shall be held to answer for any crimes or offence, until the same is fully and plainly, substantially and formally, described to him; or be compelled to accuse, or furnish evidence against himself. And every subject shall have a right to produce all proofs, that may be favorable to him; to meet the witnesses against him face to face, and to be fully heard in his defence by himself, or his council at his election. And no subject shall be arrested, imprisoned, despoiled, or deprived of his property, immunities, or privileges, put out of the protection of the law, exiled, or deprived of his life, liberty, or estate, but by the judgment of his peers, or the law of the land.

And the legislature shall not make any law, that shall subject any person to a capital or infamous punishment, excepting for the government of the army and navy, without trial by jury.

The 14th Amendment demands the same rights of the states as it does of the feds. I don't think an innocence tax is going to hold up.

toonz: mreuther: Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

I'm sorry, nationalized socialist utopia Michigan, did you just say something? The rest of America couldn't hear you over the sound of all our money being sucked into your pitiful, incompetent state.

Two words: Big Dig

Phony_Soldier: And people wonder why we Republicans want less government in our lives.

Nothing wrong with that except it's a farking LIE! and folks like you falls hook line and sinker.

Last I checked Bush made the goverment 10000X bigger than what it needs to! probably short of being a dadgum police state!
Go be a hipocrite somewhere else.

Difference between a Republican and a Democrat is Republicans do an exact 180 on what they say whereas Democrats just lie.

mreuther: toonz: mreuther: Ahh, the Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts, where the police shoot you and then charge you for the bullet. Maybe we can get to work on some sanctions.

I'm sorry, nationalized socialist utopia Michigan, did you just say something? The rest of America couldn't hear you over the sound of all our money being sucked into your pitiful, incompetent state.

Two words: Big Dig

six words:
touché.
I owe you a beer.

UnspokenVoice: toonz: UnspokenVoice: Then go do it and maybe you'll get PAID instead of feeling like you are entitled to determine someone else's pay scale.

you don't actually run your own business, do you?

be honest, Mr. "The Plumber".

Technically, yes I do however, in the spirit of being a Farker... Nope, not any more really. I am retired, thankfully. All I do do now is not really a "business" but rather I do a few tours (I'm a guide in my old age) each year but that's mostly because I want to as opposed to needing to do so.

oh wow. you do tours in the sticks. yeah no one can do thaaaaaaat. I work a fulltime job and run a business on the side -not because I have to either (i guess i'm just lazy and entitled). I have my reasons for no longer doing it full time. I have worked years at a time with out a vacation so spare me your cock-sucking ex-hippie baby boomer turned republican once your selfish ass made your own money pontifications. you people are the worst of the worst, I look forward to enjoying you in my Soylent Green.

Do that whole work thing, I know it is a four letter word, and you can retire too. Stop wallowing in your deluded entitlement phase and get your nose out of other people's business and *gasp* that white picket fence in the country is achievable. If you spent more time DOING instead of saying "give me give me give me" when it concerns something that you didn't earn and aren't entitled to then, well, yeah - maybe you can be in a position to be an ethical workplace leader.

ex hippie douche is telling me how EASY it is to run businesses these days because he did it years ago. lol. sorry pops. when the dreams are a little higher than the mayberry general store a little elbow grease still requires the backing of VC's (waits for you to look up "VC") and some other things to fall into place no matter how much effort you and your Ivy league business partners put into it (not Ivy league meself, but they didn't seem to have a problem with me being part of the team). Incidentally, without going into too much detail part of the last venture's failure, I'm convinced is BECAUSE we tried to be ethical and responsible, but whatever. we'll try something different next time... see if it sticks.


But no, you'll probably be content to whine on the internet and wallow until you've nothing left to wallow about. Instead of becoming the ethical CEO you think the world needs you'll pretend your opinion matters and then post it on Fark.

your opinion here matters equally, yay you. I'll say whatever the f*ck i want on the internet. like "suck my dick, you old queen". for instance

NOOO!!! LET US MAKE PAYING PEOPLE ILLEGAL! LET US NEGATE LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACTS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ME THE SHARE I'M ENTITLED TO. NOO!!! LET'S BLAME THE CEO FOR farkING THE COMPANY OVER EVEN THOUGH I DO ONLY THE WORK REQUIRED TO NOT GET FIRED AND DEMAND EVERY BENEFIT KNOWN TO MAN AND A PAY RATE THAT IS WELL MORE THAN I AM WORTH!!!eleventy!!

lol. so workers living paycheck to paycheck already should renogotiate contracts or face unemployemnt, but mulitmillionaires' contracts are "Sacred" that's delightful. If some dickwad ran my company into the ground I'd at least CONSIDER trying to recoup the losses, but I'm wacky like that.

(i'm not living paycheck to paycheck, incidentally. some of us view injustice in terms other than themselves. I know you boomers don't get that one -you sexy hard working ex hippie douchebags. I'm doing fine. I can drive up to your beloved Maine right now and buy a house, but i like good restaurants, good hospitals, and some things I couldn't find when I lived up there. Plus your winters suck. People are generally nice though a little high on themselves for ignorant non-traveled types but that's to be expected.


Should I send you a baby bottle cleaner and a can of Boraxo so you can get the sand out of your vagina?

please do. like I give a f*ck.

Oh, and could you top it off with premium unleaded and check my oil?

lol. sure! and while we're at it why don't you go down to the moving pictures house and watch a talkie? Gas station attendants, how quaintly esoteric for someone pretending to have a clue about the current times.

i suppose you think that any ol' boy with an 8th grade education can get behind the yoke of a mustang and take out them-thar zeros and be a real air force hero these days too.

/been a while since i worked at a gas station and that kind of full service was outdated then. But thanks for playing, dinosaur.farking boomers.

A fellow "American" had to think up this "law". Answers a lot of questions I've had about my fellow Americans.

/I'm from your government, and I'm here to help

toonz: UnspokenVoice: toonz: UnspokenVoice: Then go do it and maybe you'll get PAID instead of feeling like you are entitled to determine someone else's pay scale.

you don't actually run your own business, do you?

be honest, Mr. "The Plumber".

Technically, yes I do however, in the spirit of being a Farker... Nope, not any more really. I am retired, thankfully. All I do do now is not really a "business" but rather I do a few tours (I'm a guide in my old age) each year but that's mostly because I want to as opposed to needing to do so.

oh wow. you do tours in the sticks. yeah no one can do thaaaaaaat. I work a fulltime job and run a business on the side -not because I have to either (i guess i'm just lazy and entitled). I have my reasons for no longer doing it full time. I have worked years at a time with out a vacation so spare me your cock-sucking ex-hippie baby boomer turned republican once your selfish ass made your own money pontifications. you people are the worst of the worst, I look forward to enjoying you in my Soylent Green.

Do that whole work thing, I know it is a four letter word, and you can retire too. Stop wallowing in your deluded entitlement phase and get your nose out of other people's business and *gasp* that white picket fence in the country is achievable. If you spent more time DOING instead of saying "give me give me give me" when it concerns something that you didn't earn and aren't entitled to then, well, yeah - maybe you can be in a position to be an ethical workplace leader.

ex hippie douche is telling me how EASY it is to run businesses these days because he did it years ago. lol. sorry pops. when the dreams are a little higher than the mayberry general store a little elbow grease still requires the backing of VC's (waits for you to look up "VC") and some other things to fall into place no matter how much effort you and your Ivy league business partners put into it (not Ivy league meself, but they didn't seem to have a problem with me being part of the team). Incidentally, without going into too much detail part of the last venture's failure, I'm convinced is BECAUSE we tried to be ethical and responsible, but whatever. we'll try something different next time... see if it sticks.


But no, you'll probably be content to whine on the internet and wallow until you've nothing left to wallow about. Instead of becoming the ethical CEO you think the world needs you'll pretend your opinion matters and then post it on Fark.

your opinion here matters equally, yay you. I'll say whatever the f*ck i want on the internet. like "suck my dick, you old queen". for instance

NOOO!!! LET US MAKE PAYING PEOPLE ILLEGAL! LET US NEGATE LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACTS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GIVE ME THE SHARE I'M ENTITLED TO. NOO!!! LET'S BLAME THE CEO FOR farkING THE COMPANY OVER EVEN THOUGH I DO ONLY THE WORK REQUIRED TO NOT GET FIRED AND DEMAND EVERY BENEFIT KNOWN TO MAN AND A PAY RATE THAT IS WELL MORE THAN I AM WORTH!!!eleventy!!

lol. so workers living paycheck to paycheck already should renogotiate contracts or face unemployemnt, but mulitmillionaires' contracts are "Sacred" that's delightful. If some dickwad ran my company into the ground I'd at least CONSIDER trying to recoup the losses, but I'm wacky like that.

(i'm not living paycheck to paycheck, incidentally. some of us view injustice in terms other than themselves. I know you boomers don't get that one -you sexy hard working ex hippie douchebags. I'm doing fine. I can drive up to your beloved Maine right now and buy a house, but i like good restaurants, good hospitals, and some things I couldn't find when I lived up there. Plus your winters suck. People are generally nice though a little high on themselves for ignorant non-traveled types but that's to be expected.


Should I send you a baby bottle cleaner and a can of Boraxo so you can get the sand out of your vagina?

please do. like I give a f*ck.

Could you top it off with premium unleaded and check my oil?

lol. sure! and while we're at it why don't you go down to the moving pictures house and watch a ...

mmmhmmm... dumbass kids.... "douchebag" boomers...

I'm gonna let both of you fatheads in on a little secret.

The winner's circle?

It's a marble orchard.

Suckers.

And NOBODY will stand over your rotting ass and say "they were a credit to their generation's whiny BS".

Is it bad that the internet is able to bring me information that makes me want to kill people on a nearly daily basis? Maybe I should get some tranqs or something.

CalvinMorallis: tombotia: CalvinMorallis: You jerks just need to learn to slow down. If you don't want to pay a fine, then don't drive by a cop who's having a bad day.

Now excuse me, while I go drive in the left lane for the next 50 miles, being sure that my speedometer is at least 15 below the speed limit.

Because only assholes don't do things my way!

So the opposite of speeding is going below the limit? This is why real people don't consider whiners [re: speeders] arguments seriously.


Are real people kind of like real Americans?

And besides, I was just being a jackass for the heck of it. You, however, seem to actually be a jackass :D

Real as in adults who take responsibility for their actions. As oppose to false people who float through life blaming everyone else for all the shiat that happens to them.

And yes, I do work at being a jackass, because I'm a real jackass :-)

bunner

re: winner's circle.

to be honest, I agree with you. yes, even about my pissed off -and yes, i know pretty silly comments. (I never claim to deeply believe the crap that pops off the top of my head to be my deep-seeded beliefs.)

I just hate jackasses who keep trying to perpetuate the "just work hard and you'll be rich" myth.

lots of people work hard... innovate even... Even *gasp*, start their own businesses. Doesn't always work out. I find it funny that he seems to think the captain shouldn't go down with the ship, but the women and children in steerage should. because it's in the "contract".

how many millions does one bad executive really need? isn't gobs of money supposed to be the reward for "success"?

cheers.

/yes. I'm a douche. I know. No, I don't really hate all boomers. and yes, my generation whines too much.

toonz: I just hate jackasses who keep trying to perpetuate the "just work hard and you'll be rich" myth.

Hard work is how you make other people wealthy. Wealth is what you get when you learn a way to move so much money at once, that you an get other people to do all the work FOR you for a fraction of the amount. Here's what ELSE they don't tell you - It's not all that important. What you leave behind should be greater than the sum of the parts. That's your scorecard. Money is a useful tool, and nothing more and it ain't the whole game.. If you seek wealth for comfort, for you and yours, you may just find it. If you seek power, it will ultimately leave you hated, envied and despised.

Wealth, btw, is not paper money or credit. That's debt.

Wealth is gold, silver, platinum, certain jewels, real estate titled as arable land and certain hard chattel assets.

Ask Jefferson. (*poik*)