sober: this is news? every vegan i've ever met was more emaciated than a third-world refugee.

Ron Jeremy is vegetarian. That should count for something.

myfAuLT: I know why meaties bristle at the thought of vegetarians. It's because you're afraid that somehow, because of our choice to abstain from meat, we think we're better than you.

Well guess what?

We are better than you.

We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

Now if you could just shake the need to justify your poor choices.

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

Cool, thanks!

Jubeebee: davideo_games: Jubeebee: splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

Is the life of a farm animal the life you would wish upon yourself or your family?

When I think of the way we treat animals as being inhumane, I don't think it's because we're being cruel to animals, but more of us being a brutal species ourselves.

Disclaimer: I only refer to the factory-style ranches.

A few things:

First, animals are incapable of choosing between freedom and security because the concept of freedom does not exist to them. The concepts of food, shelter, and mating do. Trying to apply that quote to animals is silly and delusional.

Second, I'm a Humanist capital H. I don't believe animals have the same rights humans do, so your analogy between my family and the larval forms of bacon and steak does not apply. As I've said before, the only reason Humanists don't eat all the pandas is because it makes us happier to awwwwww at them. PETA loves us.

And humans are absolutely a brutal species. We've wiped out entire families of species with nothing but spears. Top of the food chain, baby.

All of that SAID, we do have a responsibility to make sure the animals we raise for food are treated well. But it's not because animals have rights, it's because the end product is healthier for consumption if the animals have good food, clean living quarters, few chemical injections, and room to move around.

I don't think I made myself clear. Personally, I think it's okay to kill an animal and eat it. That is part of survival, and a perk of being at the top of the food chain. What is NOT okay, is to set yourself up a nice meat factory, thinking that animals are okay to grow and harvest like wheat in a field.

There is simply no respect, accountability, or personal responsibility when it comes to the consumption of the majority of meat in this country. I think the inhumane thing is not the treatment of the animals, but the treatment of each other with how we raise and distribute them. It's not good for humans.

splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

Don't forget heart disease!

/Love that Tofu

Link (new window)
Vegetarianism as a Sometimes Thing

digitalia: Link (new window)
Vegetarianism as a Sometimes Thing

To manage my weight and other health issues, for a few months out of the year I'll eat vegan during the work week and omni over the weekends. Usually the motivating factor is my wallet, though.

Been so long since I have posted I had to re-activate my account, but had to say that dittybopper is my hero, still laughing at the "transfats" picture.

flyurchin:

Thanks flyurchin - sounds like we're both victims of a bit of flyin' off the handle because other folks had gotten a bit to crazy earlier in the thread. I was a bit on edge because of all the posturing and preaching developing, and I apologize if my comments were too strong. (I hadn't finished my morning coffee yet!)

And for the record, I do think eating meat is "wicked awesome" - FOR ME! As in, I say that only as my own opinion because I like eating meat, not as a judgment against those who don't. In the end, I just wanna spread the love... of bacon! Whichever denomination of bacon one chooses, it's all good!

-tlchx

Knock-knock.
Who's there?
Consumption.
Consumption who?
Consumption be done about the idiots who keep telling knock-knock jokes?

It seems that no one here has ever heard the terms "to each their own" or "live and let live"

/vegetarian
//do it because I want to
///have never once preached about how awesome I am for my lifestyle
////only slightly misses the taste of bacon
//dead_dangler cracked me up
//new record for slashies

splatterbabble: sober: this is news? every vegan i've ever met was more emaciated than a third-world refugee.

Ron Jeremy is vegetarian. That should count for something.

No he isn't. He has eaten his own meat.

people dont get what "omnivore" really means. If the human race HAD to eat a balanced diet, we would have diet out years ago. You can eat an all vegan diet, or an all meat diet or you can get by eating almost exclusively bread or rice.

We humans are not as fragile as cats (who must always eat meat) or cows (who must always eat vegetables). We can eat both or either one that is what an omnivore is.

We are like pigs. Raising pigs on a farm, we feed them mostly just ground up corn and a little bit of supplements.

Which coincidentally is the same diet as most americans. We eat mostly corn (in the form of high fructose corn syrup) with supplements (in the form of FDA mandated vitamins added to the bread you get in your big mac).

The reason you people are so crazy about trying to diss the vegans is that you think vegans will take your bacon away. No they won't. Vegans do not want take away your bacon. Eat it. Just because their lifestyle threatens you don't pretend that it's unhealthy it's not.

The worst problem of the american diet is just eating so much, we get fatter than force fed pate geese.

myfAuLT: t3knomanser: myfAuLT: Well guess what?

At least you're obvious.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Geez.

He obviously didn't see what you did there.

Wait, I just got it. I fail.

bonerici: people dont get what "omnivore" really means. If the human race HAD to eat a balanced diet, we would have diet out years ago. You can eat an all vegan diet, or an all meat diet or you can get by eating almost exclusively bread or rice.


Actually, before modern agriculture, we were obligate omnivores. In other words, we had to eat both meat and vegetation to stay healthy over the long term, simply because there is no environment on this Earth where you can live a healthy vegan lifestyle simply by eating what is available naturally.

You just can't do it.

That's not to say that every meal had to consist of a salad and a slice of mammoth, but yes animal products had to be a part of the diet, or the effects of B₁₂ deficiency would make survival much more difficult, especially when combined with a lack of dietarily useful calcium, and a lack of iodine.

Now, however, with modern technology, agriculture, and transportation, you can eat a healthy vegan diet. You have to work at it to make sure it has enough calcium and that you get B₁₂ through supplementation, but it can be done.

As such, though, it's a modern dietary affectation. If you want to do it, hey, that's your choice. Just do it responsibly, and *PLEASE* think thrice about forcing such a diet on your young children, and then think about it again for good measure.

myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

Yeah. That soybean field just sprouted out of nowhere didn't it? Didn't kill or displace any animals, native plants, or anything else?

You do realize that cattle are capable of grazing on land that isn't able to grow food crops don't you?

You're better than us, so you probably knew that already.

tastes_like_chicken: flyurchin:

Thanks flyurchin - sounds like we're both victims of a bit of flyin' off the handle because other folks had gotten a bit to crazy earlier in the thread. I was a bit on edge because of all the posturing and preaching developing, and I apologize if my comments were too strong. (I hadn't finished my morning coffee yet!)

And for the record, I do think eating meat is "wicked awesome" - FOR ME! As in, I say that only as my own opinion because I like eating meat, not as a judgment against those who don't. In the end, I just wanna spread the love... of bacon! Whichever denomination of bacon one chooses, it's all good!

-tlchx

That's cool.

Honestly, I think meat is wicked awesome for me too. I just ate my chicken tikka - so delicious.

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

My girlfriend is a vegetarian. But she's not preachy about it, so I don't care. She doesn't really like food much anyway, though, so I don't think she's missing much.

/Her principle pleasures derive from sex, drugs, and alcohol, in about that order.
//I think mine are something like food, drugs, sex, alcohol, in about that order.

Maxor: Moderation and balance, who knows that just might be the correct way for people to go. T3knomanser its fine for meat to be the main part of a dish but you should probably be having a 4 oz steak or chicken breast with 6 oz of a vegtable medley, a salad, and a starch and vegetable dish. The 20 oz steaks or porkchops or mystery meat patties in every meal are whats bad.

Bad? I can never trust a person who suggests having a 20 oz steak every meal would be a bad thing. . .

Knock-knock.
Who's there?
Amsterdam.
Amsterdam who?
Amsterdam tired of these knock-knock jokes.

slave2grind
Reminds me of that dismissive phrase, "Go eat a bowlful of dicks"

Drink more Malk, that's the answer.

Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

davideo_games Quote 2009-07-02 05:11:16 PM
Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

See, you ARE a stupid self righteous prick. You are laboring under the delusion that being a vagitarian is somehow healthier than eating balanced meals. But it is NOT, it simply is not. It might be more healthy than eating hamburgers and fries every day, but it is not healthier than eating meats, fish, veggies, greens, and fruits, all in moderation. Besides which, who the fark died and made you god? Asswhipe

It is nice to kill or grow the majority of your food. I'm fairly old and in very good health and haven't even managed to get teh cancer even though I do everything they say causes it.

Most vegetarians don't give a shiat what other people eat.

Bacon tastes good....
Pork chops taste gooood...

davideo_games: Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

So agreed. Veggie for 18 years and proud! No broken bones yet...but a lot of animals saved, healthy check-ups, and confidence I am doing something to help the environment.

I'm not sure I understand the "we should eat meat because that is how we evolved" argument. Perhaps, but we are talking about today, right? We also evolved to have kids in our early teens. How is that working out?

It is more accurate to say that people survived and multiplied where nutrient-rich food was available and sustainable. Meat played an important role, no doubt. (Drop me off in the mountains and I'll eat meat until I can figure out a sustainable way to grow and harvest foods.) We have the ability today to know what is healthful, we can control availability, and have the capacity to figure out sustainability. That isn't to say meat can or should be eliminated as a food source, but I'd say the balance is way out of whack.

I am a vagitarian, and my bone is definitely NOT brittle.

/oh.

We all prioritize living creatures above and below one another: for example, one might choose to not eat meat, but have no qualms about brutally and "inhumanely" killing an ant crawling across the kitchen counter, or a fly that landed on your soy bacon.

I admit that I'm somewhat over sensitive, but I don't kill flies and find ants adorable. The only thing I'll kill willingly is cockroaches, and even that makes me sad. I try to give them a chance first, which is most likely why they keep coming here.

But at some point in my early teens I realized I hadn't liked meat at any point in childhood and found the idea of eating a dead animal absolutely horrid. A steak looks as much like food to me as a raw, guts filled cockroach would to most people.

I would eat a person, though.

I'm not a serial killer, I swear.

AnubisMan: Day_Old_Dutchie: It seems that females get into the whole vegetarian thing (in my family at least) for two main reasons: "Awww, think of the poor little animals" and to lose weight.

You also see weak willed men that give up meat in order to have some kind of common bond with the females. These guys will do anything to try and get laid, including give up meat, pretend to be your friend, see shiatty movies, go dancing, any other emasculating act you can think of.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

/Dated a vegan girl for many months
//Refused to give up meat (or dairy) "for her"
///She became one of those militant types who would gag at the food on my plate
////Dumped her sorry ass

I was a vegetarian for a short time. You know what did me in? Beans. Beans. OH GOD THE BEANS. How can they stand to eat so many beans?

Isn't it great that people in civilized countries have so much food, that they can choose to become passionate about NOT eating something!
With all of the medical supplements around, they are even able to stave off the effects of the lost nutrients/fats/proteins that their bodies are missing.

Of course, if all of us meat eaters are going to catch colon cancer, at least I can look forward to
insurance-sponsored-assplay
in my later years.

Hopefully by some bitter vegan

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

I like this fella

Not here to disparage vegetarians or vegans. But I take issue w/ parents who impose that choice on their children (along the same lines of those parents who refuse modern medical care for their children on the basis of religious beliefs, although that's a much more extreme and risky behavior).

One of my wife's co-workers has a daughter who lives in a commune (somewhere in the Atlantic states, as I recall). Strictly organic/vegan. She shows up unannounced once/year, w/ her 3 kids in tow. Came home a couple of weeks ago and announced she's staying until August. Translation - she's broke and wants her parents to feed her and her kids for the next couple of months. Anyway, my wife's colleague is spending a fortune at a local whole foods store. The kids' favorite snack (per their mom's directive) is dried peas. Yes, dried peas. None of the kids are malnourished, per se (GIS Africa for pics of truly malnourished kids) but it's obvious that they all exhibit stunted growth. My wife gave her colleague/grandmother some clothes for a 2-year old - clothes that our 14 month-old outgrew this spring.

In contrast, our kids are offered (and inhale) large servings of fresh fruit and vegetables (sometimes fresh, otherwise frozen) with every meal. And yes, sometimes they eat turkey dogs or pancakes smothered w/ syrup. Regular ol' cows' milk all the while.

Moral of the story: rescue those kids and feed them. Not bacon and Count Chocula, but something more substantial than dried peas and soy milk.

/F$$$ it, kidnap them and feed them nothing but bacon for a year.

jkusmier - there's vegetarian and then there's psychotic, two different things.