Just came in here to point out the "not clinically significant" part of that article. Why do they bother writing about it if it isn't clinically significant? Why does anyone even give a shiat? The article could just has easily said something like "vegetarian diets increase buoyancy!" but they insisted on making it into a scare story about nothing.

/It's not news, it's fark.

sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

JSTACAT: if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]
if you eat lettuce, you eat meat [worms, e-coli]
every pound of tofu or other dry veg product contains a certain percentage of rat hairs & poop, bug carcasses, and traces of human flesh.

// sending this article to every one of my veggie ex-es
LaLalLaLaLalA

Yeast is neither an animal or a plant. Thanks for playing.

I'm perfectly accepting that I might swallow spiders in my sleep or whatever. BFD.

davideo_games: Waste of money study is a waste of money.

Eat less meat. You can still eat it, but 90% of you "omnivores" can probably cut your meat intake by 75% and still get PLENTY.

But... but... What about our stereotypes?

gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Masso: Most vegetarian I knew are pretty damn humbled (Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan), and they didn't do it for the feeling of being high and mighty.

The vegetarians I knew in Taiwan were only part-time vegetarians. They are vegetarian until after they visit their temple and pray, after which they eat meat. Their logic was "they were vegetarian when they prayed so it counts."

I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

Watch out for the jubjub birds.

gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

lukelightning: JSTACAT: if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]

Yeast is not meat. It's a fungus.

the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

JSTACAT: the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

Where the fark did you take biology?

Eat some bone soup (new window).

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

This one time, at bandercamp....

Dictatorial_Flair: JSTACAT: the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

Where the fark did you take biology?

// Where the fark did you take english?
Look up 'Properties'

gulogulo: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Ok... if you're really a biologist and a conservations. I'll hope you know more about this subject than a software developer.

However, you should have an easy time explaining how shifting the population from eating more fruits/vegetables and less meat is going to require more farmland than the current status quo. I just don't see it. If the majority of farm animals were grazing on grass and foraging food matter and not being fed grains/feed from sources that could be converted to growing fruits/vegetables for people, I might see your point.

Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

Why not take out the Jabberwocky while you're at it. I'm sure Lewis Caroll won't mind. Dibs on the JubJub bird.

kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

sluck604: gulogulo: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Ok... if you're really a biologist and a conservations. I'll hope you know more about this subject than a software developer.

However, you should have an easy time explaining how shifting the population from eating more fruits/vegetables and less meat is going to require more farmland than the current status quo. I just don't see it. If the majority of farm animals were grazing on grass and foraging food matter and not being fed grains/feed from sources that could be converted to growing fruits/vegetables for people, I might see your point.

Often, cattle graze on land that isn't particularly suitable for other kinds of farming.

For instance, cattle often are left to graze in pastures that are too rocky, too steep, or are otherwise unsuitable to grow other foodstuffs. This isn't always the case, but where I grew up in rural upstate NY, all of the nice flat farmland is given over to growing corn and other vegetable crops, while the hillier, more rocky farmland is generally cow pasture.

sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

JSTACAT: // Where the fark did you take english?
Look up 'Properties'

Technically you have the properties of the moon or a pile of festering vomit or a tree, at the subatomic level. That doesn't mean you're much like any of those.

Yeast is a fungus, not a plant or an animal. E. coli is a bacterium, not a worm. They're not even close. I guess they are all made of cells, along with all that entails, but that's about as far as it goes with microbes being the same as plants and worms. There are microscopic plants, and yeast isn't one of those either.

/Yeast is organic too, hur hur.

splatterbabble: sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

Maybe. As long as there aren't any transfats. ;)

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point?

There once again you're being 1. a douchebag 2. being self-righteous 3. Showing off your inability to understand the written word.

I choose not to support something I don't like, I don't call it a protest. I don't think that equates to not doing anything.

You must be a blast at parties.

splatterbabble: kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

No, it just means he won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

You pocket-mulch, right?

splatterbabble: just agree

Sure.

Timdesuyo: Yup. Wasn't there a nice study about the unreliability of studies a while back?

Yeah. But then there was another study of the unreliability of studies of the reliability of studies. Can't trust/distrust anybody anymore, it seems.

Another thing: if you eat fish, you're not a vegetarian (unless fish has recently been classified as a vegetable). You're just not.

So if you eat fish:
- you don't get to call yourself a vegetarian, so please stop
- you don't get to act self-righteous
- you don't get to lecture me on a "healthy vegetarian diet"

/and yes, sushi usually contains fish

nosferatublue: splatterbabble: kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

No, it just means he won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

You pocket-mulch, right?

Yup, no use wasting empty space in my pants like the unwashed masses.

Fossil fuel consumption is a reason for being vegan now? Really? wtf.

gulogulo: splatterbabble: sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

Maybe. As long as there aren't any transfats. ;)

Yeah, they creep me out too:

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

sluck604: All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

Then choose to eat wild game and eat organic grass-fed beef from a local supplier. Like I said in the beginning of this conversation.

You're very selective in what you choose to read and respond to.

So can we call them boneheads or not?

jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

Good grief, I got a cavity just thinking about that.

Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

If you're that sensitive, you probably don't want to hear about the results of my all-Vegemite diet experiment.

Dangl1ng: Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

But it is delicious.

Dangl1ng: I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

Meat industry is pretty f-ed up. I agree with what someone said here earlier: most omnivores could eat a hell of a lot less meat and still get plenty of the nutrients and proteins they need.

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

Dangl1ng: Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

This is pretty astute observation. We do eat too much meat, and the times we do it is worthwhile to try and eat meats from sources that are antibiotic free and free-ranging (of course with responsible grazing practices and rotations in place).

flyurchin:

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

You want to know one major problem with a vegan lifestyle?

It requires importing food from all over the place. Veganism contributes to global warming.

gulogulo: sluck604: All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

Then choose to eat wild game and eat organic grass-fed beef from a local supplier. Like I said in the beginning of this conversation.

You're very selective in what you choose to read and respond to.

Interesting... I seemed to suggest those very thing to people who want to eat meat. I have other reasons for choosing not eating those myself. Ones which are personal and don't expect others to agree with, mostly matters of taste.

I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

dittybopper: flyurchin:

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

You want to know one major problem with a vegan lifestyle?

It requires importing food from all over the place. Veganism contributes to global warming.

What kind of food are your vegans eating?

We get locally grown vegetables from the store and lots of rice. Then there are things like frozen burritos, tofu, tempeh, soy milk, etc. I don't think these things are coming from places farther away than most omnivores' foods.

sluck604: Interesting... I seemed to suggest those very thing to people who want to eat meat.

Then we are fundamentally advocating for the same things...

tastes_like_chicken: I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

I'm sure you're feeling just so great right now.