This is where the vegetarians stick up for their shiatty diet, right?

Molavian: This is where the vegetarians stick up for their shiatty loose bowels diet, right?

They prefer you use the right terms.

Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

I expect this thread to be a rational and intelligent discussion of different dietary choices.

//Look, to be honest, I can't trust a person that won't eat bacon.
//I don't care why you won't. It's just inhuman.

You mean that omnivores who choose to not be omnivores aren't as healthy as their omnivore counterparts? Color me shocked.

/omnivores
//omnivores
///omnivores

Yup. Wasn't there a nice study about the unreliability of studies a while back?

Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You are what you eat. Eat bones.

Also in the news today: Vegetarians 12 percent less likely to develop cancer than meat-eaters. (new window)

I'm a happy meat eater, so suck it, not-cancer.

Once again, more than .

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Because crazy biatches will do threesomes.

My first thought (Electric Company goodness)

Retort: You are what you eat. Eat bones.


I eat pure awesome.

I guess the Apostle Paul was right when he said that the "weak person eats only vegtables."

FTA:"There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said."

Suck it, other types of vegetarians.

Now if they could stop looking like AIDS patients. I'll club them and eat their bones!

t3knomanser: I expect this thread to be a rational and intelligent discussion of different dietary choices.

//Look, to be honest, I can't trust a person that won't eat worship bacon.
//I don't care why you won't. It's just inhuman.

Fixed

splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

Brittle vegetarian Bones?


/poor girl, eat a samwich please

To sum up the study:
People who take calcium out of their diet have weaker bones.

FTFA: But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant

Brittle bones? Hardly.

t3knomanser: You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

Your brand of "facts" and "common sense" have no place here, you heretic!

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Cause you like hearing the hips crack without being a pedo??

club sandwiches, not seals.

Farkwaddle: Cause you like hearing the hips crack without being a pedo??

Aw, you went there.

t3knomanser: splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

I grew up in Kentucky where meat covered meat in meat sauce was an entree and the sides were usually beans or rice cooked in meat and lard. A happy medium in Kentucky is eating vegetables where no one can see you do it.

Poppyale: club sandwiches, not seals.

But my sandwich doesn't have a skull to pop.

choice and consequence: Brittle vegetarian Bones?


/poor girl, eat a samwich please

Is that a zombie?!? I actually jumped a little when I saw that pic.

/runs for ammo stash, just in case

I know why meaties bristle at the thought of vegetarians. It's because you're afraid that somehow, because of our choice to abstain from meat, we think we're better than you.

Well guess what?

We are better than you.

We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

myfAuLT: Well guess what?

At least you're obvious.

Suck it, PETA members!

/surprised someone didn't say that already

It seems that females get into the whole vegetarian thing (in my family at least) for two main reasons: "Awww, think of the poor little animals" and to lose weight.

My counter to them is that human beings, like it or not, have EVOLVED as OMNIVORES and need to eat a BALANCE of plant and animal products.

My doc told me you don't need a whole lot. An adult needs only about 6 oz of animal products (a standard hamburger patty, a large egg or chicken quarter) a day is way plenty. He thinks vegetarians (and vegans, in particular) are a deluded bunch.

GoldSpider: Farkwaddle: Cause you like hearing the hips crack without being a pedo??

Aw, you went there.

The door was open...couldn't help myself.

myfAuLT: I know why meaties bristle at the thought of vegetarians. It's because you're afraid that somehow, because of our choice to abstain from meat, we think we're better than you.

Well guess what?

We are better than you.

We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

Well at least you're humble and tolerant of those that disagree with your philosophy.

/Mmm, steak.

I was a vegetarian for about 8 years, and then discovered I really missed bacon. I was rather anemic at the time, though, because I struggled to get enough iron in my diet.

I wonder if the decrease in bone health might have to do more with not making sure you are getting all the nutrients you need in the quantity you need, having to eat more than you would of them in vegetable matter than in animal products.

That said, there's no questioning we are meant to be omnivores and our bodies function best with animal protein. It doesn't mean, of course, it has to be as fatty protein as our ancestors used to eat, but in times when the earth wasn't producing fruit and veggies it would have been our only choice.

As for cancer? Maybe, we are all living a bit too long now.

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Oh, SNAP! (literally!)

Moderation and balance, who knows that just might be the correct way for people to go. T3knomanser its fine for meat to be the main part of a dish but you should probably be having a 4 oz steak or chicken breast with 6 oz of a vegtable medley, a salad, and a starch and vegetable dish. The 20 oz steaks or porkchops or mystery meat patties in every meal are whats bad.

"There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said."

I love how they sneaked that in there. So, basically eating lots of meat had little to do with the bone density. What mattered was eating food with high sources of calcium like dairy products.

Hot as a slow smoked pork shoulder.

I just decided to eat a nice juicy steak today

Day_Old_Dutchie: It seems that females get into the whole vegetarian thing (in my family at least) for two main reasons: "Awww, think of the poor little animals" and to lose weight.

My counter to them is that human beings, like it or not, have EVOLVED as OMNIVORES and need to eat a BALANCE of plant and animal products.

My doc told me you don't need a whole lot. An adult needs only about 6 oz of animal products (a standard hamburger patty, a large egg or chicken quarter) a day is way plenty. He thinks vegetarians (and vegans, in particular) are a deluded bunch.


Haha, it's precious how you treat the opinion of your Doc as the gospel. Can your Dad still beat up every one else's Dad too?

Timdesuyo: Yup. Wasn't there a nice study about the unreliability of studies a while back?

Yes but the results were dubious and are currently under peer review.

There is already another study to study the previous dubious results of the study of the former unreliable study under way now.

t3knomanser: splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

Actually, that's not necessarily true, either: The traditional Inuit diet has always been very heavily meat oriented, but when they went to a more "western" diet their rates of stomach and colon cancers increased significantly, by about 12%.

I suspect it has more to do with how we raise cattle, and what we add to the meat, than the fact that we eat meat itself.

t3knomanser: splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

This but I avoid meat altogether. Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive (and really I don't care for the taste). I think eating meat a handful of times a month would probably be healthier (provided it was free of mercury, growth hormones, pesticides).

If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.

/tis a funny thing, the self-righteous vegan/vegetarian seems nonexistant. Its like all the douche-bags decided they could be more self-righteous by taking offense at someone not eating meat.

myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

I'm better than you because I understand that planting crops and using pesticides and fertilizers also farks over helpless animals. Instead of doing some token gesture like being a vegetarian, I dedicated my life to helping preserve and protect habitat, having it made it my career. Let me tell you, your crop lands aren't any better. You fark up the environment in different ways.

But .... veggie farts are soooo much fun!

The kind of vegetarian that will eat things like ice cream and french fries now and then don't bother me, though the idea of going through life without ever devouring flame-seared animal flesh again makes the hindpart of my brain cringe and howl like some primordial beast gazing on a sudden and total eclipse of the sun. It's the crazies that will only eat raw weeds or all fruits or just plain cut out all non-flora that will be the downfall of society.

You're mutants. You're forcing yourself to evolve in a way that is inefficient and aberrant to Nature. If God were up there, looking down, he'd go WTF and throw some Rank IV bolts around to bust that up. In about ten generations Vegans are going to be some kind of translucent-skinned, hairless hunchbacks cruising around on anti-grav discs, distended spines crackling with latent psychic force as they drift along lazily over the heads of us grunting, physically normal but artificially-induced mentally stunted omnivores - yes, your evil Vegan overlords have implanted neural manipulators in the brains of your offspring to control their development - poking, prodding with pronged poles crackling with lambent psychic energies.

Stop them. Stop them now. Save us, while there's still time.

Bobucles: To sum up the study:
People who take calcium out of their diet have weaker bones.

How much calcium do you find in a steak? unless you're nawing on the bones, I think it would be very little.

dangnabit VV, beat me to the punch!

Christian Bale: Haha, it's precious how you treat the opinion of your Doc as the gospel. Can your Dad still beat up every one else's Dad too?

Pfft, doctors. What do they know?

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

In the tradition of hunter gatherers everywhere, I prefer a girlfriend who lusts for my meat when I return from my day's adventure.

sluck604: Bobucles: To sum up the study:
People who take calcium out of their diet have weaker bones.

How much calcium do you find in a steak? unless you're nawing (sic) on the bones, I think it would be very little.

Calcium is used as a tenderizer, I think.

sluck604: /tis a funny thing, the self-righteous vegan/vegetarian seems nonexistant. Its like all the douche-bags decided they could be more self-righteous by taking offense at someone not eating meat.

Scroll up, and the tone of your post was slightly self-righteous too.

I can think a several reasonable reasons one might have for becoming a vegetarian. Health is not one of them. Sure burgers and such may be bad for you but there are plenty of meats that have less fat and cholesterol.

Each person has just as much right as say a lion or tiger to decide whether they eat meat or not. I don't expect vegetarians to try and explain to a lion why he should not eat meat but at the same time why not accept that humans eating meat is just as natural as any other type of animal doing it.

sluck604: Bobucles: To sum up the study:
People who take calcium out of their diet have weaker bones.

How much calcium do you find in a steak? unless you're nawing on the bones, I think it would be very little.

Can I have your steak bones? Mmmmm....marrow. Seriously, it's good.

gulogulo: myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

I'm better than you because I understand that planting crops and using pesticides and fertilizers also farks over helpless animals. Instead of doing some token gesture like being a vegetarian, I dedicated my life to helping preserve and protect habitat, having it made it my career. Let me tell you, your crop lands aren't any better. You fark up the environment in different ways.

You do realize, that when you start eating higher up the food chain you're exponentially expanding those problems, don't you? Please tell me you eat grass fed beef.

Kyro: Christian Bale: Haha, it's precious how you treat the opinion of your Doc as the gospel. Can your Dad still beat up every one else's Dad too?

Pfft, doctors. What do they know?

My shaman told me that doctors are just tools of the pharmaceutical corporations trying to make a buck off the sick. He only charged me $450 for that session because my chakras were already aligned because of the raw vegan diet I've been eating.

Meat was essential to the development of the primordial brain . . . animals eat less fertile sources of food, so don't worry about that aspect of overfarming the land . . . I'd imagine the chemicals are worse than the meat . . . and most vegans I know are killjoys who don't need to lose weight and whatnot; they need a steak and a vigorous weight-training lifestyle. But I'm at the age where I can say, "I don't want to live forever."

sluck604:
If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.


Congratulations. You've just taken your first steps into a larger World.

Honestly, while I think vegans are misguided, I give them the credit of living their ideology. What I can't stand are the hypocrites: People who eat meat, yet are against hunting.

Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

Tofu made with calcium chloride is high in calcium.

last time i went to the doc, he said my calcium was a little on the high side.

My cholesterol is 116. My meat eating dad has to be on cholesterol meds, and his is still over 150, and it used to be over 200.

I'm less scrawny now then when i was eating meat, 10 years ago, but i spend more time in the gym now.

//not going in 26 mins tho

LordRosco: dangnabit VV, beat me to the punch!

It's funny enough to post twice. This thread has me reminiscing about the ribeye I had for Father's Day. Best steak I've ever cooked. I doubt I'll ever feel the same way about a salad.

dittybopper: sluck604:
If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.


Congratulations. You've just taken your first steps into a larger World.

Honestly, while I think vegans are misguided, I give them the credit of living their ideology. What I can't stand are the hypocrites: People who eat meat, yet are against hunting.

Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

Well, it's not exactly legal to walk up to a cow in a field and blow its head off now is it? I mean I would, but a cow aint worth time in the pokey ya know? Is it still illegal to hunt bison? I REALLY want a bison steak.

gulogulo: sluck604: /tis a funny thing, the self-righteous vegan/vegetarian seems nonexistant. Its like all the douche-bags decided they could be more self-righteous by taking offense at someone not eating meat.

Scroll up, and the tone of your post was slightly self-righteous too.

If you think what I said was self righteous... you must go around butt-hurt an awful lot.

Timdesuyo: Yup. Wasn't there a nice study about the unreliability of studies a while back?

Yes, but that study was found to be unreliable...

sluck604: gulogulo: myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

I'm better than you because I understand that planting crops and using pesticides and fertilizers also farks over helpless animals. Instead of doing some token gesture like being a vegetarian, I dedicated my life to helping preserve and protect habitat, having it made it my career. Let me tell you, your crop lands aren't any better. You fark up the environment in different ways.

You do realize, that when you start eating higher up the food chain you're exponentially expanding those problems, don't you? Please tell me you eat grass fed beef.

There's that self-righteous tone you said didn't exist. Actually, beef is very rarely on my menu (maybe three times a year), and yes when it is I go for organic grass fed. Generally, my protein sources in my freezer come from hunts. So let's thing this through. Your protest? The cattle industry. What is your goal? To end the practice. Less meat made in quantities that keeps the price down mean people who cannot afford to buy grass-fed will have to turn to cheaper food sources. Meat will become a luxury. So people will have to turn matter diet, I guess, which will involve in expanding the croplands to feed everyone's needs (and you need a hell of a lot), and exponentially expanding the problems you site. That's your solution? Where do you see this protest going?

Tell me, where do you buy your food sources?

This story makes me want to eat a huge steak right now....

Suck it brittle bones

Alleyoop: Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Farkwaddle: Cause you like hearing the hips crack without being a pedo??

No, but having to keep a spit-bucket in bed kinda takes the romance out of it.

kabloink: "There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said."

I love how they sneaked that in there. So, basically eating lots of meat had little to do with the bone density. What mattered was eating food with high sources of calcium like dairy products.

Seriously, that's a criminally misleading headline.

/ don't eat red meat
// never broken a bone (and not through lack of trying)
/// anecdote = data

dittybopper: sluck604:
If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.


Congratulations. You've just taken your first steps into a larger World.

Honestly, while I think vegans are misguided, I give them the credit of living their ideology. What I can't stand are the hypocrites: People who eat meat, yet are against hunting.

Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

First steps? wider world? please.

/sigh, like you know me...

dittybopper: sluck604:
If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.


Congratulations. You've just taken your first steps into a larger World.

Honestly, while I think vegans are misguided, I give them the credit of living their ideology. What I can't stand are the hypocrites: People who eat meat, yet are against hunting.

Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

My bag lunch consists of venison steak, so I'm really getting a kick out of this. All the dirty work was done by myself and Mrs. Blue.

/Rawr!

sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Because you're a masochist?

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

I'm better than you because I understand that planting crops and using pesticides and fertilizers also farks over helpless animals. Instead of doing some token gesture like being a vegetarian, I dedicated my life to helping preserve and protect habitat, having it made it my career. Let me tell you, your crop lands aren't any better. You fark up the environment in different ways.

You do realize, that when you start eating higher up the food chain you're exponentially expanding those problems, don't you? Please tell me you eat grass fed beef.

There's that self-righteous tone you said didn't exist. Actually, beef is very rarely on my menu (maybe three times a year), and yes when it is I go for organic grass fed. Generally, my protein sources in my freezer come from hunts. So let's thing this through. Your protest? The cattle industry. What is your goal? To end the practice. Less meat made in quantities that keeps the price down mean people who cannot afford to buy grass-fed will have to turn to cheaper food sources. Meat will become a luxury. So people will have to turn matter diet, I guess, which will involve in expanding the croplands to feed everyone's needs (and you need a hell of a lot), and exponentially expanding the problems you cite. That's your solution? Where do you see this protest going?

Tell me, where do you buy your food sources?

FTFM

t3knomanser: myfAuLT: Well guess what?

At least you're obvious.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Geez.

myfAuLT: t3knomanser: myfAuLT: Well guess what?

At least you're obvious.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Geez.

Note to self: do not Fark before I've finished my coffee.

*facepalms*

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

Heh I read that as: Which begs the question, why would I waste time eating a vegan girlfriend?

And had that "Tastes great! Less filling!" commercial meme going thru my head.

I've boned a vegetarian.

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

I'm better than you because I understand that planting crops and using pesticides and fertilizers also farks over helpless animals. Instead of doing some token gesture like being a vegetarian, I dedicated my life to helping preserve and protect habitat, having it made it my career. Let me tell you, your crop lands aren't any better. You fark up the environment in different ways.

You do realize, that when you start eating higher up the food chain you're exponentially expanding those problems, don't you? Please tell me you eat grass fed beef.

There's that self-righteous tone you said didn't exist. Actually, beef is very rarely on my menu (maybe three times a year), and yes when it is I go for organic grass fed. Generally, my protein sources in my freezer come from hunts. So let's thing this through. Your protest? The cattle industry. What is your goal? To end the practice. Less meat made in quantities that keeps the price down mean people who cannot afford to buy grass-fed will have to turn to cheaper food sources. Meat will become a luxury. So people will have to turn matter diet, I guess, which will involve in expanding the croplands to feed everyone's needs (and you need a hell of a lot), and exponentially expanding the problems you site. That's your solution? Where do you see this protest going?

Tell me, where do you buy your food sources?

That's an awful lot of wharrgarbl. I didn't say I was protesting anything. I said I don't support something. I only feel the need to explain this when people get all douche-baggy about me not eating meat, which happens all the time.

As for the rest of your argument, Are you really suggesting that raising farm animals means less land is used to raise crops and less water? Those rather large populations of animals need to eat too.

As for where I get my food, local farmers market, stuff I grow myself, whole foods, occasionally I go to Krogers or Meijers.

Torok:
Each person has just as much right as say a lion or tiger to decide whether they eat meat or not. I don't expect vegetarians to try and explain to a lion why he should not eat meat but at the same time why not accept that humans eating meat is just as natural as any other type of animal doing it.

I'm not a vegetarian, and I don't see myself giving up delicious burgers and steak and chicken wings and salmon and ....NOM I'm making myself hungry....no! Discussion!

I certainly agree with you 100% that we all have a choice in whether to eat meat, but I'm not sure if I totally agree with your line of reasoning. It seems, in my humble opinion, that you are making the Naturalistic Fallacy where ("Is=Ought") whereby you say "this is what evolution made us do, so it's ok!" Evolutionary behavior is not necessarily WRONG, but it's not necessarily right either. For instance, you won't skate by with the defense "But HONEY, I'm a male homo sapien! I EVOLVED to sleep around!" (PS If you skate by with this, can I meat your wife....er....meet your wife?)

Once we understand the underlying reasons why we do something, we are the only creatures who have the capacity to employ our reason decide whether we consider it good or bad, based on more than our feelings at that very moment. We can evaluate whether something like eating meat or sleeping around is "good" or "bad" based on criteria that are independent of why the behaviors originally came into existence.

/still buying a nice juicy steak for dinner
//Obviously I've thought about it and made my decision

dittybopper: Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

"Bummer of a birthmark, Hal."

Why do people care so much what other people decide to eat?
Half the people in here are like 'aha! I knew veganism is bad for you, idiots!'
On the other side, I work with a lot of people who claim to be vegetarian or vegan and act like they are superior, or more-evolved or something because of their lifestyle choice.
It's just odd. People are different, move on.

/learned that in grade school
//everyone I work with is fat, no bone density problems here

Maxor: Moderation and balance, who knows that just might be the correct way for people to go. T3knomanser its fine for meat to be the main part of a dish but you should probably be having a 4 oz steak or chicken breast with 6 oz of a vegtable medley, a salad, and a starch and vegetable dish. The 20 oz steaks or porkchops or mystery meat patties in every meal are whats bad.

Agreed 100%, although that sounds like a really small meal. Meat and animal products shouldn't make up the majority of your diet by mass.

A good, balanced dinner could look something like:
6oz grilled chicken breast
5 slices whole wheat bread
4 tablespoons olive oil for dipping bread
1 raw green pepper cut into strips

Just about as simple as you can get, but it'll do you just fine for the whole night.

And when you make sandwiches, there shouldn't be a half-inch thick layer of deli meat along with a single leaf of lettuce.

I'll just leave this here





/Links are hot like the BBQ sauce I'd put on it.

Brittle bones? But I always drink plenty of...

sluck604: I didn't say I was protesting anything. I said I don't support something.

Ah, so it's only a token gesture, not really meant to instigate any kind of change in the system?

Are you really suggesting that raising farm animals means less land is used to raise crops and less water? Those rather large populations of animals need to eat too.

That wasn't what I was suggesting at all. I was operating under the assumption you were taking a serious stance for change, not just a feel good measure. I was following the logical conclusion for such change, since people need a lot more vegetable matter to get the same caloric and nutritional content found in a lean protein source. Of course, this would mean needed to drain out more of our wetlands for that nice fertile lands, too.

As for where I get my food, local farmers market, stuff I grow myself, whole foods, occasionally I go to Krogers or Meijers.

Local farmer's markets and gardens in Ohio year round? Really? I think the "occassionally" happens a bit more frequently than you're letting on.

gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

SupremeLeader:
In reality only fruitarians who don't eat the seeds of fruits are consistent in their avoidance of not hurting living beings.

It's ok to eat the seeds as long as you poop outside where the plants want you to.

Farkwaddle: dittybopper: sluck604:
If I ever feel the desire to eat meat again, It'll be something I killed myself.


Congratulations. You've just taken your first steps into a larger World.

Honestly, while I think vegans are misguided, I give them the credit of living their ideology. What I can't stand are the hypocrites: People who eat meat, yet are against hunting.

Try venison: It's healthy, lean and organic!

Well, it's not exactly legal to walk up to a cow in a field and blow its head off now is it? I mean I would, but a cow aint worth time in the pokey ya know? Is it still illegal to hunt bison? I REALLY want a bison steak.

If it's your cow, absolutely it's legal. Same as if it's your pig, or your chicken.

You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

Sounds good. Thanks.

if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]
if you eat lettuce, you eat meat [worms, e-coli]
every pound of tofu or other dry veg product contains a certain percentage of rat hairs & poop, bug carcasses, and traces of human flesh.

// sending this article to every one of my veggie ex-es
LaLalLaLaLalA

gulogulo: sluck604: I didn't say I was protesting anything. I said I don't support something.

Ah, so it's only a token gesture, not really meant to instigate any kind of change in the system?

Are you really suggesting that raising farm animals means less land is used to raise crops and less water? Those rather large populations of animals need to eat too.

That wasn't what I was suggesting at all. I was operating under the assumption you were taking a serious stance for change, not just a feel good measure. I was following the logical conclusion for such change, since people need a lot more vegetable matter to get the same caloric and nutritional content found in a lean protein source. Of course, this would mean needed to drain out more of our wetlands for that nice fertile lands, too.


You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Waste of money study is a waste of money.

Eat less meat. You can still eat it, but 90% of you "omnivores" can probably cut your meat intake by 75% and still get PLENTY.

JSTACAT: if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]

Yeast is not meat. It's a fungus.

Most vegetarian I knew are pretty damn humbled (Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan), and they didn't do it for the feeling of being high and mighty. I think it's a western phenomenon more than anything this "my diet is better than yours".

And seriously:
There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said.

Wow, make it sound like something insignificant, that's a good chunk of vegetarians there.

sluck604:
First steps? wider world? please.

/sigh, like you know me...

Erm, OK.

[looks sluck604 longingly in the eyes]

Sigh.......


/The fact that I was using a quote from Star Wars should have clued you in that I wasn't *ENTIRELY* serious.
//Except for the hypocrisy part. Dead serious about that.

MysteryMachine: Torok:
Each person has just as much right as say a lion or tiger to decide whether they eat meat or not. I don't expect vegetarians to try and explain to a lion why he should not eat meat but at the same time why not accept that humans eating meat is just as natural as any other type of animal doing it.

I'm not a vegetarian, and I don't see myself giving up delicious burgers and steak and chicken wings and salmon and ....NOM I'm making myself hungry....no! Discussion!

I certainly agree with you 100% that we all have a choice in whether to eat meat, but I'm not sure if I totally agree with your line of reasoning. It seems, in my humble opinion, that you are making the Naturalistic Fallacy where ("Is=Ought") whereby you say "this is what evolution made us do, so it's ok!" Evolutionary behavior is not necessarily WRONG, but it's not necessarily right either. For instance, you won't skate by with the defense "But HONEY, I'm a male homo sapien! I EVOLVED to sleep around!" (PS If you skate by with this, can I meat your wife....er....meet your wife?)

Once we understand the underlying reasons why we do something, we are the only creatures who have the capacity to employ our reason decide whether we consider it good or bad, based on more than our feelings at that very moment. We can evaluate whether something like eating meat or sleeping around is "good" or "bad" based on criteria that are independent of why the behaviors originally came into existence.

/still buying a nice juicy steak for dinner
//Obviously I've thought about it and made my decision

Eating meat can be proven to be an evolutionary behavior by looking at the makeup of the human body. Not so much with your example.

Just came in here to point out the "not clinically significant" part of that article. Why do they bother writing about it if it isn't clinically significant? Why does anyone even give a shiat? The article could just has easily said something like "vegetarian diets increase buoyancy!" but they insisted on making it into a scare story about nothing.

/It's not news, it's fark.

sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

JSTACAT: if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]
if you eat lettuce, you eat meat [worms, e-coli]
every pound of tofu or other dry veg product contains a certain percentage of rat hairs & poop, bug carcasses, and traces of human flesh.

// sending this article to every one of my veggie ex-es
LaLalLaLaLalA

Yeast is neither an animal or a plant. Thanks for playing.

I'm perfectly accepting that I might swallow spiders in my sleep or whatever. BFD.

davideo_games: Waste of money study is a waste of money.

Eat less meat. You can still eat it, but 90% of you "omnivores" can probably cut your meat intake by 75% and still get PLENTY.

But... but... What about our stereotypes?

gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Masso: Most vegetarian I knew are pretty damn humbled (Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan), and they didn't do it for the feeling of being high and mighty.

The vegetarians I knew in Taiwan were only part-time vegetarians. They are vegetarian until after they visit their temple and pray, after which they eat meat. Their logic was "they were vegetarian when they prayed so it counts."

I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

Watch out for the jubjub birds.

gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

lukelightning: JSTACAT: if you drink beer, or eat bread you are eating meat, [yeasts are animal/plant]

Yeast is not meat. It's a fungus.

the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

JSTACAT: the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

Where the fark did you take biology?

Eat some bone soup (new window).

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

This one time, at bandercamp....

Dictatorial_Flair: JSTACAT: the yeasts are curious because they have partially animal properties & partially plant/fungus properties.
God invented yeast for people who are afraid of the meat.

Where the fark did you take biology?

// Where the fark did you take english?
Look up 'Properties'

gulogulo: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Ok... if you're really a biologist and a conservations. I'll hope you know more about this subject than a software developer.

However, you should have an easy time explaining how shifting the population from eating more fruits/vegetables and less meat is going to require more farmland than the current status quo. I just don't see it. If the majority of farm animals were grazing on grass and foraging food matter and not being fed grains/feed from sources that could be converted to growing fruits/vegetables for people, I might see your point.

Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

lukelightning: dittybopper: You can buy bison meat, by the way, and if you are so inclined, you can hunt them if you can afford it.

I'm saving up to hunt a bandersnatch. Wish me luck.

Why not take out the Jabberwocky while you're at it. I'm sure Lewis Caroll won't mind. Dibs on the JubJub bird.

kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

sluck604: gulogulo: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

And you sort of conveniently ignored the rest of my points. Maybe you need more fish; it's brain food.

Ok... if you're really a biologist and a conservations. I'll hope you know more about this subject than a software developer.

However, you should have an easy time explaining how shifting the population from eating more fruits/vegetables and less meat is going to require more farmland than the current status quo. I just don't see it. If the majority of farm animals were grazing on grass and foraging food matter and not being fed grains/feed from sources that could be converted to growing fruits/vegetables for people, I might see your point.

Often, cattle graze on land that isn't particularly suitable for other kinds of farming.

For instance, cattle often are left to graze in pastures that are too rocky, too steep, or are otherwise unsuitable to grow other foodstuffs. This isn't always the case, but where I grew up in rural upstate NY, all of the nice flat farmland is given over to growing corn and other vegetable crops, while the hillier, more rocky farmland is generally cow pasture.

sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

JSTACAT: // Where the fark did you take english?
Look up 'Properties'

Technically you have the properties of the moon or a pile of festering vomit or a tree, at the subatomic level. That doesn't mean you're much like any of those.

Yeast is a fungus, not a plant or an animal. E. coli is a bacterium, not a worm. They're not even close. I guess they are all made of cells, along with all that entails, but that's about as far as it goes with microbes being the same as plants and worms. There are microscopic plants, and yeast isn't one of those either.

/Yeast is organic too, hur hur.

splatterbabble: sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

Maybe. As long as there aren't any transfats. ;)

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point?

There once again you're being 1. a douchebag 2. being self-righteous 3. Showing off your inability to understand the written word.

I choose not to support something I don't like, I don't call it a protest. I don't think that equates to not doing anything.

You must be a blast at parties.

splatterbabble: kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

No, it just means he won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

You pocket-mulch, right?

splatterbabble: just agree

Sure.

Timdesuyo: Yup. Wasn't there a nice study about the unreliability of studies a while back?

Yeah. But then there was another study of the unreliability of studies of the reliability of studies. Can't trust/distrust anybody anymore, it seems.

Another thing: if you eat fish, you're not a vegetarian (unless fish has recently been classified as a vegetable). You're just not.

So if you eat fish:
- you don't get to call yourself a vegetarian, so please stop
- you don't get to act self-righteous
- you don't get to lecture me on a "healthy vegetarian diet"

/and yes, sushi usually contains fish

nosferatublue: splatterbabble: kliq: Vegetarians? Hah, posers. I'm a level 5 vegan.

Is that what the e-meter said?

No, it just means he won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

You pocket-mulch, right?

Yup, no use wasting empty space in my pants like the unwashed masses.

Fossil fuel consumption is a reason for being vegan now? Really? wtf.

gulogulo: splatterbabble: sluck604 and gulogulo, can't we just agree to enjoy french fries?

Maybe. As long as there aren't any transfats. ;)

Yeah, they creep me out too:

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

sluck604: All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

Then choose to eat wild game and eat organic grass-fed beef from a local supplier. Like I said in the beginning of this conversation.

You're very selective in what you choose to read and respond to.

So can we call them boneheads or not?

jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

Good grief, I got a cavity just thinking about that.

Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

If you're that sensitive, you probably don't want to hear about the results of my all-Vegemite diet experiment.

Dangl1ng: Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

But it is delicious.

Dangl1ng: I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

Meat industry is pretty f-ed up. I agree with what someone said here earlier: most omnivores could eat a hell of a lot less meat and still get plenty of the nutrients and proteins they need.

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

Dangl1ng: Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

This is pretty astute observation. We do eat too much meat, and the times we do it is worthwhile to try and eat meats from sources that are antibiotic free and free-ranging (of course with responsible grazing practices and rotations in place).

flyurchin:

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

You want to know one major problem with a vegan lifestyle?

It requires importing food from all over the place. Veganism contributes to global warming.

gulogulo: sluck604: All the problems you keep bringing up are made worse by the inefficiencies introduced when eating animals higher up the food chain.

Then choose to eat wild game and eat organic grass-fed beef from a local supplier. Like I said in the beginning of this conversation.

You're very selective in what you choose to read and respond to.

Interesting... I seemed to suggest those very thing to people who want to eat meat. I have other reasons for choosing not eating those myself. Ones which are personal and don't expect others to agree with, mostly matters of taste.

I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

dittybopper: flyurchin:

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

You want to know one major problem with a vegan lifestyle?

It requires importing food from all over the place. Veganism contributes to global warming.

What kind of food are your vegans eating?

We get locally grown vegetables from the store and lots of rice. Then there are things like frozen burritos, tofu, tempeh, soy milk, etc. I don't think these things are coming from places farther away than most omnivores' foods.

sluck604: Interesting... I seemed to suggest those very thing to people who want to eat meat.

Then we are fundamentally advocating for the same things...

tastes_like_chicken: I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

I'm sure you're feeling just so great right now.

gulogulo:

You're very selective in what you choose to read and respond to.

Sometimes it pays to ignore the red herrings besides work can be so distracting.

jso2897: Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

If you're that sensitive, you probably don't want to hear about the results of my all-Vegemite diet experiment.

That sounds special. My dad is always trying to make me eat marmite when I go visit him.

I guess it wasn't really a "diet." I bought two of those huge boxes of foot-long pixie stix from Sam's Club and proceeded to eat almost nothing else for the better part of three days. They're nothing but acidic sugar, so it did a lot of stringent burny stuff to my mouth and throat.

Jubeebee: splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

Is the life of a farm animal the life you would wish upon yourself or your family?

When I think of the way we treat animals as being inhumane, I don't think it's because we're being cruel to animals, but more of us being a brutal species ourselves.

Disclaimer: I only refer to the factory-style ranches.

gulogulo: sluck604: Interesting... I seemed to suggest those very thing to people who want to eat meat.

Then we are fundamentally advocating for the same things...

Probably. I'd add cutting down the quantities... in the extreme. Like I said earlier, my diet would probably be healthier if I ate meat a handful of times a month. I think most people would be healthier if they limited eating meat to handful of times a month.

*shrug*

Mr. Vincent Vega: Hot as a slow smoked pork shoulder.

Came for thiss....leaving satisfied

nosferatublue: Retort: You are what you eat. Eat bones.


I eat pure awesome.

THIS

flyurchin: tastes_like_chicken: I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

I'm sure you're feeling just so great right now.

Actually no, I'm sad.

Because my bacon is all gone. I eated it. :(

When I was in graduate school (for library science - yay for naughty librarians!), there was a clique of folks I dubbed the "Vegan Mafia" - self-absorbed hipsters runnin' around screaming about how delicious their tempeh was all the time in a passive aggressive better-than-you kind of way. I rolled my eyes strenuously every time they acted up, but as far as I'm concerned, that just means MORE BACON FOR ME!

Reminds me of my favorite knock knock joke:
Knock knock!
Who's there?
Vegan!
Vegan who?
I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!

lukelightning: Brittle bones? But I always drink plenty of...

Newsletter. Subscription. Please.

Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku!: kabloink: "There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said."

I love how they sneaked that in there. So, basically eating lots of meat had little to do with the bone density. What mattered was eating food with high sources of calcium like dairy products.

Seriously, that's a criminally misleading headline.

/ don't eat red meat
// never broken a bone (and not through lack of trying)
/// anecdote = data

If you do the move you're named after and still haven't broken any bones AND don't eat red meat, that is just AWESOME!

davideo_games: Jubeebee: splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

Is the life of a farm animal the life you would wish upon yourself or your family?

When I think of the way we treat animals as being inhumane, I don't think it's because we're being cruel to animals, but more of us being a brutal species ourselves.

Disclaimer: I only refer to the factory-style ranches.

WTF is with this? Inhumane treatment of a pig? Of course it's being treated inhumanely - IT'S A PIG, NOT A HUMAN. You really think pigs in the wild are having a gay old time as they run from natural predators intent on eating them alive? I'm not saying we shouldbe totally unethical and unnecesarily cruel with the treatment of animals, but this is just out of control.

Im about to gorge myself at a an awesome Argentinian meat buffet. so I am really getting a kick out of these replies.

/honestly if I cant have a good steak or some bacon, why bother living a long life? It would be like prolonged torture.

tastes_like_chicken: flyurchin: tastes_like_chicken: I'm eating bacon right now, which only makes this thread more fun to read!

I'm sure you're feeling just so great right now.

Actually no, I'm sad.

Because my bacon is all gone. I eated it. :(

When I was in graduate school (for library science - yay for naughty librarians!), there was a clique of folks I dubbed the "Vegan Mafia" - self-absorbed hipsters runnin' around screaming about how delicious their tempeh was all the time in a passive aggressive better-than-you kind of way. I rolled my eyes strenuously every time they acted up, but as far as I'm concerned, that just means MORE BACON FOR ME!

Reminds me of my favorite knock knock joke:
Knock knock!
Who's there?
Vegan!
Vegan who?
I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!!

Your vegan mafia people sound awfully annoying, but coming into a thread just to announce that you're eating meat and that it's so wicked cool is annoying in pretty much the same way.

Reminds me of a non-existent knock knock joke:
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Meat-eater!
Meat-eater who?
AREN'T VEGANS STUPID AND MEAT EATERS ARE REALLY COOL!

See what I'm sayin'?

flyurchin: dittybopper: flyurchin:

Also, my vegan girlfriend is healthier than most people I know.

You want to know one major problem with a vegan lifestyle?

It requires importing food from all over the place. Veganism contributes to global warming.

What kind of food are your vegans eating?

We get locally grown vegetables from the store and lots of rice. Then there are things like frozen burritos, tofu, tempeh, soy milk, etc. I don't think these things are coming from places farther away than most omnivores' foods.

True, but omnivores *COULD* have a healthy diet based solely on local foods, and in fact mostly did so right up until less than 100 years or so ago. Some still do it today, though it's less common in the developed world.

There is no place on Earth where you could live a completely healthy long-term vegan diet on just what grows locally. Eventually, things like B₁₂ and calcium deficiencies start becoming an issue.

This is why we evolved to be omnivores.

Lacto-ovo-vegemite-arianism will supply those nutrients adequately, but that isn't veganism.

Dangl1ng Quote 2009-07-02 10:40:43 AM
Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

Man up nancy. You can find a butcher and get totally locally raised food. Having meat less often might be a good idea for many Americans, But if you eat the way your grandparents taught you then you will have a healthy, well balanced grouping of some meat, some fish, fresh greens, and lots of fruits and veggies.

t3knomanser: splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

Most discussions of veg vs non-veg diets are limited by the fact that they lump everyone into one of those categories, when in reality it's many types of diets.

They should really start comparing meat eaters who also eat Cheetos vs those that don't, meat eaters who exercise vs those that don't, people who have more than 3 types of gravy in their fridge vs those that don't, etc.

iollow: t3knomanser: splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

You realize, there's a happy medium. The colon cancer risks arise mostly because people are eating too much meat. The cancer risk is not caused by meat, but by an unhealthy diet.

A healthy diet can include meat, but meat should never be the main part of a dish.

Most discussions of veg vs non-veg diets are limited by the fact that they lump everyone into one of those categories, when in reality it's many types of diets.

They should really start comparing meat eaters who also eat Cheetos vs those that don't, meat eaters who exercise vs those that don't, people who have more than 3 types of gravy in their fridge vs those that don't, etc.

We don't have time for sensible answers, just poo flinging.

dittybopper: True, but omnivores *COULD* have a healthy diet based solely on local foods, and in fact mostly did so right up until less than 100 years or so ago. Some still do it today, though it's less common in the developed world.

There is no place on Earth where you could live a completely healthy long-term vegan diet on just what grows locally. Eventually, things like B12 and calcium deficiencies start becoming an issue.

This is why we evolved to be omnivores.

Lacto-ovo-vegemite-arianism will supply those nutrients adequately, but that isn't veganism.

I try to keep my healthy omnivore diet local and organic, but I'm not going to exclude certain foods just to do that (though I can't think of any off the top of my head). Anyway, I know that there's no way to guarantee that I've significantly reduced my environmental impact.

But you're right about there being no place on Earth where you could have completely healthy long-term vegan diet on just what grows locally. You need vitamins and/or supplements, which probably aren't local, but so what?

Yes, we evolved into omnivores. But now we can make vitamins and process vegetables and their parts into a million different delicious and healthy things. We're smart like that, and I don't know about you, but I'm not entirely concerned with the evolution of our speicies. Instead, I'm more concerned about what's for dinner.

Just because we've evolved this way and can be omnivores, doesn't mean we have to be. We can choose to eat differently and still live healthy lives.

Dangl1ng: Lately I have been thinking about going vegetarian. But not your normal vegetarian. I have some friends from El Salvador and they said that when they lived there, meat was a very expensive thing. You don't just kill a cow because it's dinner, you kill a cow because there is a celebration. It's my birthday, MEAT!! It's Christmas, let's slaughter a pig. So I have been considering doing something like that.
I've been watching things on factory farming, and honestly, it makes me sick just thinking about the meat that I eat. I want my hamburger to have led a happy life before it visited my plate. I want my bacon to be happy. Not standing in it's own feces, filled with hormones and antibiotics. Sometimes these animals are penned in their same cage for their entire life and then the first steps they take is to be led to the slaughter house.

It's just not right.

While I agree with the sentiment on factory farming... but having lived on a dairy farm, I would not include "standing in its own feces."

My bedrrom window was literally about 15 feet from heifer pasture. It was a huge pasture but they all pooped near the fence where they liked to stand and scratch their necks on the barbed wire (not kidding). Not only did they stand in it, they lay down in it often, and sometimes get pooped on by another.

One time, when the salt lick got old and it took a week to get a new one, I saw a couple of the heifers drinking pee coming out of another one.

So, I'll go ahead and wager they don't mind standing in their own poo.

/also had no problem eating the hamburger I fed them once
//yes, I might be a little "off" myself

I don't think I finished this sentence in my last post:

Anyway, I know that there's no way to guarantee that I've significantly reduced my environmental impact...

if I tried eating only local, organic foods.

davideo_games: Jubeebee: splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

Is the life of a farm animal the life you would wish upon yourself or your family?

When I think of the way we treat animals as being inhumane, I don't think it's because we're being cruel to animals, but more of us being a brutal species ourselves.

Disclaimer: I only refer to the factory-style ranches.

A few things:

First, animals are incapable of choosing between freedom and security because the concept of freedom does not exist to them. The concepts of food, shelter, and mating do. Trying to apply that quote to animals is silly and delusional.

Second, I'm a Humanist capital H. I don't believe animals have the same rights humans do, so your analogy between my family and the larval forms of bacon and steak does not apply. As I've said before, the only reason Humanists don't eat all the pandas is because it makes us happier to awwwwww at them. PETA loves us.

And humans are absolutely a brutal species. We've wiped out entire families of species with nothing but spears. Top of the food chain, baby.

All of that SAID, we do have a responsibility to make sure the animals we raise for food are treated well. But it's not because animals have rights, it's because the end product is healthier for consumption if the animals have good food, clean living quarters, few chemical injections, and room to move around.

Its not about the diet. Its what the diet says about you and your warped sense of values.

If you've ever been around chickens for any length of time, you will have no trouble whatsoever killing and eating them. They are super annoying.

If you've ever been around pigs for any length of time, same thing, but pigs are smart and mean. Plus they're a magical animal that gives us bacon, ham, pork chops, hocks for my bean soup, et cetera.

Cows are an animal of convenience. Buffalo is better by far, as is venison and elk. Heck even ostrich blows beef away [and yes, ostrich is a red meat] I loves me a tasty cowboy-cut ribeye [and the schnauzer loves the leftover bone] but given my druthers, I'll take an elk porterhouse any day of the week.

I can't stand lamb, though. It has a 'grey' taste to it.

Knock Knock.
Who's there?
Interrupting cow.
Nom nom nom.

lukelightning: Knock Knock.
Who's there?
Interrupting cow.
Nom nom nom.

I lol'd.

Ball of Confusion: Its not about the diet. Its what the diet says about you and your warped sense of values.

If you've ever been around chickens for any length of time, you will have no trouble whatsoever killing and eating them. They are super annoying.



Even more annoying is having taken the trouble to raise a few miserable chickens to slaughter, then we you're cleaning one you pop the stupid gallblader and ruin most of the goddamned thing.

The way I see it, there is a fundamental human need to feel superior to other humans. I figure it's better to feel superior because of one's dietary choice (be it meat or no-meat) than because of one's skin color, gender, or whatever.

jso2897: Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

If you're that sensitive, you probably don't want to hear about the results of my all-Vegemite diet experiment.

How long did that last? 2 meals...maybe? Man that crap is NASTY!

Farkwaddle: jso2897: Dictatorial_Flair: jso2897: Actually, there's a lot of imagined superiority on both sides of the argument. If it makes you feel any better, as far as I'm concerned you can live on Pixie-Stix, if you feel like it, and do so with my blessings. It's none of my damn business.

I tried that once. The heartburn was epic.

If you're that sensitive, you probably don't want to hear about the results of my all-Vegemite diet experiment.

How long did that last? 2 meals...maybe? Man that crap is NASTY!

I like Vegemite. I like it a lot.

flyurchin:
Just because we've evolved this way and can be omnivores, doesn't mean we have to be. We can choose to eat differently and still live healthy lives.

I'd rather not fight evolution.

/This is where I start comparing vegans to fundamentalist christians, for those who just entered the arena.

I'm assuming that nobody here has a problem with eating dogs.

/try it
//actually, don't, it tastes horrible

Scientists prove that vegetarians vegans have weaker bones. Suck it brittle bones

FTFY, smitty. Shocker - people who don't consume dairy products have weak bones.

In other news, water is wet, sky is blue, and eating too much meat will kill you.

jrchan: I'm assuming that nobody here has a problem with eating dogs.

/try it
//actually, don't, it tastes horrible

I'd have no problem with trying it.

I do think we ignore some of the most abundant forms of protein, too. :) I'd love to try insects.

dittybopper: flyurchin:
Just because we've evolved this way and can be omnivores, doesn't mean we have to be. We can choose to eat differently and still live healthy lives.

I'd rather not fight evolution.

/This is where I start comparing vegans to fundamentalist christians, for those who just entered the arena.

But what does "fighting evolution" mean? In one sense, most aspects of technology developed by humans be considered fighting evolution. From another perspective, eating a healthy vegan diet and having a healthy lifestyle could be seen as contributing to the evolutionary process, as people who eat too much genetically altered meat from environmentally destructive meat factories get cancer and die out.

From another perspective, it is very silly to make statements like these because you can't really fight or join evolution. Evolution just happens. But we still can make choices about our diet. And with my girlfriend as a shining example, you can still live a healthy life with a vegan diet - and she even comes Fark-ready, as in she's not the "in your face, you animal killer" vegan at all.

/she makes me wash pans I cook meat in though, whatevs

You know what's funny? I've seen about a hundred times more "lol, vegetarians are stupid meat-eaters" than I have "lol, meat-eaters are stupid" vegetarians.

Pxtl: You know what's funny? I've seen about a hundred times more "lol, vegetarians are stupid meat-eaters" than I have "lol, meat-eaters are stupid" vegetarians.

I think it's hardly funny. I can't believe people get so worked up about either.

Pxtl: You know what's funny? I've seen about a hundred times more "lol, vegetarians are stupid meat-eaters" than I have "lol, meat-eaters are stupid" vegetarians.

Well that's simple proportions. More meat eaters than there are vegetarians.

jrchan: I'm assuming that nobody here has a problem with eating dogs.

/try it
//actually, don't, it tastes horrible

I like Chinese food.

Day_Old_Dutchie: It seems that females get into the whole vegetarian thing (in my family at least) for two main reasons: "Awww, think of the poor little animals" and to lose weight.

You also see weak willed men that give up meat in order to have some kind of common bond with the females. These guys will do anything to try and get laid, including give up meat, pretend to be your friend, see shiatty movies, go dancing, any other emasculating act you can think of.

flyurchin: dittybopper: flyurchin:
Just because we've evolved this way and can be omnivores, doesn't mean we have to be. We can choose to eat differently and still live healthy lives.

I'd rather not fight evolution.

/This is where I start comparing vegans to fundamentalist christians, for those who just entered the arena.

But what does "fighting evolution" mean? In one sense, most aspects of technology developed by humans be considered fighting evolution. From another perspective, eating a healthy vegan diet and having a healthy lifestyle could be seen as contributing to the evolutionary process, as people who eat too much genetically altered meat from environmentally destructive meat factories get cancer and die out.

From another perspective, it is very silly to make statements like these because you can't really fight or join evolution. Evolution just happens. But we still can make choices about our diet. And with my girlfriend as a shining example, you can still live a healthy life with a vegan diet - and she even comes Fark-ready, as in she's not the "in your face, you animal killer" vegan at all.

/she makes me wash pans I cook meat in though, whatevs

You know, this is Fark, and we've been known to take things unseriously.

Pxtl: You know what's funny? I've seen about a hundred times more "lol, vegetarians are stupid meat-eaters" than I have "lol, meat-eaters are stupid" vegetarians.

You mean in every vegetarian thread on Fark, ever?

What I find funny is that IRL, the only ones that seem to have a problem with vegetarianism are the overweight, basement dwelling slobs. I've gotten along fine with pretty much every hunter and even the more redneck guys I've ever met. They might ask a bunch of questions about me being vegan, but never call me stupid or tell me I'm not eating healthy foods. Get some WoW nerd though who only knows how to fry bacon and apparently my existence is personally offensive to them.

Headline: Vegetarian diet 'weakens bones'

TFA: There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians

ever wonder where a cow gets all that calcium for its milk..............


study funded by the Meat Industry, no doubt.....

dittybopper: You know, this is Fark, and we've been known to take things unseriously.

Oh shi-

We're you joking about the fighting evolution thing? It's hard to read the sarcasm sometimes. I didn't think i was getting too serious about that or anything. In fact, I was trying to say that it seems too ridiculous to get too serious about all this.

1. Put snakes on plane: Pxtl: You know what's funny? I've seen about a hundred times more "lol, vegetarians are stupid meat-eaters" than I have "lol, meat-eaters are stupid" vegetarians.

You mean in every vegetarian thread on Fark, ever?

What I find funny is that IRL, the only ones that seem to have a problem with vegetarianism are the overweight, basement dwelling slobs. I've gotten along fine with pretty much every hunter and even the more redneck guys I've ever met. They might ask a bunch of questions about me being vegan, but never call me stupid or tell me I'm not eating healthy foods. Get some WoW nerd though who only knows how to fry bacon and apparently my existence is personally offensive to them.

Actually, its only a problem if you get OUT of the basement and try dating one of those people. If you aren't trying to get in her pants, then there's no reason to care about keeping her happy with good food.

flyurchin:

Your vegan mafia people sound awfully annoying, but coming into a thread just to announce that you're eating meat and that it's so wicked cool is annoying in pretty much the same way.

Reminds me of a non-existent knock knock joke:
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Meat-eater!
Meat-eater who?
AREN'T VEGANS STUPID AND MEAT EATERS ARE REALLY COOL!

See what I'm sayin'?

Wow, thanks for being a total turdburgler and missing my point entirely! I wasn't making fun of all vegans or vegetarians, just the ANNOYING better-than-you ones of my own experience.

As for coming into a thread "just to announce I'm eating meat" - I'm sorry but in my mind it seemed perfectly on topic, seeing as how this is a thread about eating meat or not eating meat. I came across the thread while eating bacon for breakfast and it struck me as amusing that these two things would happen simultaneously. It also was said just in jest, thanks for asking. If I'd said I was eating local organic soy bacon, would you have had the same reaction I wonder?

Also, thanks for putting words in my mouth, since I never said anything about how "wicked cool" it is. I'm sorry if I bruised your ever-so-tender feelings by simply noting (apparently inappropriately) that I was eating a meat product (the KING of all meat products in my personal, biased, and in no way representative of all meat eaters opinion) in a vegetarian/omnivore discussion.

But if you re-read my initial words, I hope you'll realize I didn't mean any offense and was just trying to add a bit of silly levity to a thread which seemed to be getting kind of hostile. Thanks so much for perpetuating that hate!
/sarcasm

In my opinion, eating all organic and local and environmentally consciously is a very nice goal, and one that I try to practice when I can - but ultimately, and unfortunately, it's a luxury. Those of us just trying to make an honest wage and get food on the table for our families can't always afford to make the decisions that are theoretically best for the planet. There's no way for humans to survive that doesn't have some kind of impact on the planet. Whether some of that impact is "good" or "bad" is up for debate.

We all prioritize living creatures above and below one another: for example, one might choose to not eat meat, but have no qualms about brutally and "inhumanely" killing an ant crawling across the kitchen counter, or a fly that landed on your soy bacon. Whether or not we choose to eat animals is a personal choice, but you must admit there's a lot of illogical thinking out there. I choose to eat meat, simple as that. Don't disrespect my choice and I won't disrespect yours.

love n' bacon (both animal and vegetable),
tlchix

tastes_like_chicken: love n' bacon (both animal and vegetable),
tlchix

Look, I wasn't really trying to be mean, but it's hard to seperate levity from people being stupid online sometime. You just happened to be the last example in the thread at the moment where I wanted to address the issue of people coming onto threads like these just to gloat about the greatness of meat, or the greatness of non-meat. I wasn't trying to accuse you of stupidity, but the comments and jokes that perpetuate stupid arguments or stereotypes. I wasn't trying to perpetuate hate - that seems a bit strong.

Pretty much I agree with everything you just wrote. Also, I eat meat too, so unless I'm disrespecting my own choice, you can be sure I'm not disrespecting yours.

I also enjoy bacon very much (but have to watch my intake because I have bad cholesterol genes).

flyurchin: dittybopper: You know, this is Fark, and we've been known to take things unseriously.

Oh shi-

We're you joking about the fighting evolution thing? It's hard to read the sarcasm sometimes. I didn't think i was getting too serious about that or anything. In fact, I was trying to say that it seems too ridiculous to get too serious about all this.

Well, less than half-serious.

Maybe just a quarter serious.

dittybopper: flyurchin: dittybopper: You know, this is Fark, and we've been known to take things unseriously.

Oh shi-

We're you joking about the fighting evolution thing? It's hard to read the sarcasm sometimes. I didn't think i was getting too serious about that or anything. In fact, I was trying to say that it seems too ridiculous to get too serious about all this.

Well, less than half-serious.

Maybe just a quarter serious.

I'm a quarter serious about most things, but apparently I messed up in this thread. Look at the post above: you're not the only one who thought I was playing asshole today.

Maybe I need more coffee.

This thread makes me hungry for peanut brittle.

lukelightning: This thread makes me hungry for peanut brittle.

f it. I'm going home to eat my chicken tikka leftovers.

this is news? every vegan i've ever met was more emaciated than a third-world refugee.

sober: this is news? every vegan i've ever met was more emaciated than a third-world refugee.

Ron Jeremy is vegetarian. That should count for something.

myfAuLT: I know why meaties bristle at the thought of vegetarians. It's because you're afraid that somehow, because of our choice to abstain from meat, we think we're better than you.

Well guess what?

We are better than you.

We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

Now if you could just shake the need to justify your poor choices.

sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: Mostly b/c I don't want to support an industry that is needlessly cruel, environmentally destructive

That's the pat-on-the back statement. Perhaps not as self-righteous as myFAULT, though, I'll give you that.

pat on the back? trying to explain why I choose not to eat meat? after I don't know how many posts basically challenging the mental faculties of anyone who choses not to eat meat?

Seriously? I'm sorry I should just let you all have a nice circle-jerk and insult anyone who doesn't agree. So you can feel superior in your meat eating ways.

Cool, thanks!

Jubeebee: davideo_games: Jubeebee: splatterbabble: I once asked a vegan friend if he bit his fingernails. He said sure, and when I questioned if it was against his vegan-ness, he said no because he didn't enslave his fingernails first.

Then he did some cocaine since it's vegan, too.

People like this confuse me. Domestication is just about the best thing that can happen to a species. They rarely have to worry about predators, never have to search for food or water, get to mate often, and at the end they die relatively painlessly.

Sure, things like veal farming can be cruel, but for your average piggy, living on a meat ranch must beat living in the wild.

Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

Is the life of a farm animal the life you would wish upon yourself or your family?

When I think of the way we treat animals as being inhumane, I don't think it's because we're being cruel to animals, but more of us being a brutal species ourselves.

Disclaimer: I only refer to the factory-style ranches.

A few things:

First, animals are incapable of choosing between freedom and security because the concept of freedom does not exist to them. The concepts of food, shelter, and mating do. Trying to apply that quote to animals is silly and delusional.

Second, I'm a Humanist capital H. I don't believe animals have the same rights humans do, so your analogy between my family and the larval forms of bacon and steak does not apply. As I've said before, the only reason Humanists don't eat all the pandas is because it makes us happier to awwwwww at them. PETA loves us.

And humans are absolutely a brutal species. We've wiped out entire families of species with nothing but spears. Top of the food chain, baby.

All of that SAID, we do have a responsibility to make sure the animals we raise for food are treated well. But it's not because animals have rights, it's because the end product is healthier for consumption if the animals have good food, clean living quarters, few chemical injections, and room to move around.

I don't think I made myself clear. Personally, I think it's okay to kill an animal and eat it. That is part of survival, and a perk of being at the top of the food chain. What is NOT okay, is to set yourself up a nice meat factory, thinking that animals are okay to grow and harvest like wheat in a field.

There is simply no respect, accountability, or personal responsibility when it comes to the consumption of the majority of meat in this country. I think the inhumane thing is not the treatment of the animals, but the treatment of each other with how we raise and distribute them. It's not good for humans.

splatterbabble: Weaker bones versus colon cancer. Hmmm...

Don't forget heart disease!

/Love that Tofu

Link (new window)
Vegetarianism as a Sometimes Thing

digitalia: Link (new window)
Vegetarianism as a Sometimes Thing

To manage my weight and other health issues, for a few months out of the year I'll eat vegan during the work week and omni over the weekends. Usually the motivating factor is my wallet, though.

Been so long since I have posted I had to re-activate my account, but had to say that dittybopper is my hero, still laughing at the "transfats" picture.

flyurchin:

Thanks flyurchin - sounds like we're both victims of a bit of flyin' off the handle because other folks had gotten a bit to crazy earlier in the thread. I was a bit on edge because of all the posturing and preaching developing, and I apologize if my comments were too strong. (I hadn't finished my morning coffee yet!)

And for the record, I do think eating meat is "wicked awesome" - FOR ME! As in, I say that only as my own opinion because I like eating meat, not as a judgment against those who don't. In the end, I just wanna spread the love... of bacon! Whichever denomination of bacon one chooses, it's all good!

-tlchx

Knock-knock.
Who's there?
Consumption.
Consumption who?
Consumption be done about the idiots who keep telling knock-knock jokes?

It seems that no one here has ever heard the terms "to each their own" or "live and let live"

/vegetarian
//do it because I want to
///have never once preached about how awesome I am for my lifestyle
////only slightly misses the taste of bacon
//dead_dangler cracked me up
//new record for slashies

splatterbabble: sober: this is news? every vegan i've ever met was more emaciated than a third-world refugee.

Ron Jeremy is vegetarian. That should count for something.

No he isn't. He has eaten his own meat.

people dont get what "omnivore" really means. If the human race HAD to eat a balanced diet, we would have diet out years ago. You can eat an all vegan diet, or an all meat diet or you can get by eating almost exclusively bread or rice.

We humans are not as fragile as cats (who must always eat meat) or cows (who must always eat vegetables). We can eat both or either one that is what an omnivore is.

We are like pigs. Raising pigs on a farm, we feed them mostly just ground up corn and a little bit of supplements.

Which coincidentally is the same diet as most americans. We eat mostly corn (in the form of high fructose corn syrup) with supplements (in the form of FDA mandated vitamins added to the bread you get in your big mac).

The reason you people are so crazy about trying to diss the vegans is that you think vegans will take your bacon away. No they won't. Vegans do not want take away your bacon. Eat it. Just because their lifestyle threatens you don't pretend that it's unhealthy it's not.

The worst problem of the american diet is just eating so much, we get fatter than force fed pate geese.

myfAuLT: t3knomanser: myfAuLT: Well guess what?

At least you're obvious.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Geez.

He obviously didn't see what you did there.

Wait, I just got it. I fail.

bonerici: people dont get what "omnivore" really means. If the human race HAD to eat a balanced diet, we would have diet out years ago. You can eat an all vegan diet, or an all meat diet or you can get by eating almost exclusively bread or rice.


Actually, before modern agriculture, we were obligate omnivores. In other words, we had to eat both meat and vegetation to stay healthy over the long term, simply because there is no environment on this Earth where you can live a healthy vegan lifestyle simply by eating what is available naturally.

You just can't do it.

That's not to say that every meal had to consist of a salad and a slice of mammoth, but yes animal products had to be a part of the diet, or the effects of B₁₂ deficiency would make survival much more difficult, especially when combined with a lack of dietarily useful calcium, and a lack of iodine.

Now, however, with modern technology, agriculture, and transportation, you can eat a healthy vegan diet. You have to work at it to make sure it has enough calcium and that you get B₁₂ through supplementation, but it can be done.

As such, though, it's a modern dietary affectation. If you want to do it, hey, that's your choice. Just do it responsibly, and *PLEASE* think thrice about forcing such a diet on your young children, and then think about it again for good measure.

myfAuLT: We don't fark up the environment by keeping cattle farms in business. We don't fark over the hungry by monopolizing land for an inefficient food production method, and we don't fark over helpless animals just because they taste good.

Yeah. That soybean field just sprouted out of nowhere didn't it? Didn't kill or displace any animals, native plants, or anything else?

You do realize that cattle are capable of grazing on land that isn't able to grow food crops don't you?

You're better than us, so you probably knew that already.

tastes_like_chicken: flyurchin:

Thanks flyurchin - sounds like we're both victims of a bit of flyin' off the handle because other folks had gotten a bit to crazy earlier in the thread. I was a bit on edge because of all the posturing and preaching developing, and I apologize if my comments were too strong. (I hadn't finished my morning coffee yet!)

And for the record, I do think eating meat is "wicked awesome" - FOR ME! As in, I say that only as my own opinion because I like eating meat, not as a judgment against those who don't. In the end, I just wanna spread the love... of bacon! Whichever denomination of bacon one chooses, it's all good!

-tlchx

That's cool.

Honestly, I think meat is wicked awesome for me too. I just ate my chicken tikka - so delicious.

Alleyoop: Suck it brittle bones

Which begs the question, why would I waste time getting a vegan girlfriend?

My girlfriend is a vegetarian. But she's not preachy about it, so I don't care. She doesn't really like food much anyway, though, so I don't think she's missing much.

/Her principle pleasures derive from sex, drugs, and alcohol, in about that order.
//I think mine are something like food, drugs, sex, alcohol, in about that order.

Maxor: Moderation and balance, who knows that just might be the correct way for people to go. T3knomanser its fine for meat to be the main part of a dish but you should probably be having a 4 oz steak or chicken breast with 6 oz of a vegtable medley, a salad, and a starch and vegetable dish. The 20 oz steaks or porkchops or mystery meat patties in every meal are whats bad.

Bad? I can never trust a person who suggests having a 20 oz steak every meal would be a bad thing. . .

Knock-knock.
Who's there?
Amsterdam.
Amsterdam who?
Amsterdam tired of these knock-knock jokes.

slave2grind
Reminds me of that dismissive phrase, "Go eat a bowlful of dicks"

Drink more Malk, that's the answer.

Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

davideo_games Quote 2009-07-02 05:11:16 PM
Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

See, you ARE a stupid self righteous prick. You are laboring under the delusion that being a vagitarian is somehow healthier than eating balanced meals. But it is NOT, it simply is not. It might be more healthy than eating hamburgers and fries every day, but it is not healthier than eating meats, fish, veggies, greens, and fruits, all in moderation. Besides which, who the fark died and made you god? Asswhipe

It is nice to kill or grow the majority of your food. I'm fairly old and in very good health and haven't even managed to get teh cancer even though I do everything they say causes it.

Most vegetarians don't give a shiat what other people eat.

Bacon tastes good....
Pork chops taste gooood...

davideo_games: Just so you meat-eaters know: most of the vegetarians/vegans who want to convince you to change your diet aren't doing it for some self-righteous cause. It's typically because there's a lot of actual, good reasons for cutting a large portion of meat out of the typical American diet.

Also, I personally would like to get as many omnivores as I can to agree that a vegetarian lifestyle is viable and healthy so that my tax dollars can stop subsidizing your meat.

So agreed. Veggie for 18 years and proud! No broken bones yet...but a lot of animals saved, healthy check-ups, and confidence I am doing something to help the environment.

I'm not sure I understand the "we should eat meat because that is how we evolved" argument. Perhaps, but we are talking about today, right? We also evolved to have kids in our early teens. How is that working out?

It is more accurate to say that people survived and multiplied where nutrient-rich food was available and sustainable. Meat played an important role, no doubt. (Drop me off in the mountains and I'll eat meat until I can figure out a sustainable way to grow and harvest foods.) We have the ability today to know what is healthful, we can control availability, and have the capacity to figure out sustainability. That isn't to say meat can or should be eliminated as a food source, but I'd say the balance is way out of whack.

I am a vagitarian, and my bone is definitely NOT brittle.

/oh.

We all prioritize living creatures above and below one another: for example, one might choose to not eat meat, but have no qualms about brutally and "inhumanely" killing an ant crawling across the kitchen counter, or a fly that landed on your soy bacon.

I admit that I'm somewhat over sensitive, but I don't kill flies and find ants adorable. The only thing I'll kill willingly is cockroaches, and even that makes me sad. I try to give them a chance first, which is most likely why they keep coming here.

But at some point in my early teens I realized I hadn't liked meat at any point in childhood and found the idea of eating a dead animal absolutely horrid. A steak looks as much like food to me as a raw, guts filled cockroach would to most people.

I would eat a person, though.

I'm not a serial killer, I swear.

AnubisMan: Day_Old_Dutchie: It seems that females get into the whole vegetarian thing (in my family at least) for two main reasons: "Awww, think of the poor little animals" and to lose weight.

You also see weak willed men that give up meat in order to have some kind of common bond with the females. These guys will do anything to try and get laid, including give up meat, pretend to be your friend, see shiatty movies, go dancing, any other emasculating act you can think of.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

/Dated a vegan girl for many months
//Refused to give up meat (or dairy) "for her"
///She became one of those militant types who would gag at the food on my plate
////Dumped her sorry ass

I was a vegetarian for a short time. You know what did me in? Beans. Beans. OH GOD THE BEANS. How can they stand to eat so many beans?

Isn't it great that people in civilized countries have so much food, that they can choose to become passionate about NOT eating something!
With all of the medical supplements around, they are even able to stave off the effects of the lost nutrients/fats/proteins that their bodies are missing.

Of course, if all of us meat eaters are going to catch colon cancer, at least I can look forward to
insurance-sponsored-assplay
in my later years.

Hopefully by some bitter vegan

gulogulo: sluck604: gulogulo: sluck604: You are making no sense. Honestly you think all those calories in your hamburger/chicken/pork come from no where?

Kind of dense, aren't you? Try reading it again. That's not what I was saying at all. You trade one problem for another. But none of it matters since your gesture isn't actually one trying to make any kind of change to a system you don't like.

Going to try to put this simply. To raise one pound of meat (hell 1000 calories of meat), how much water, fossil fuel, vegetable matter, pesticides, acreage of land, do you think you need? To do the same with vegetables what do you think you need?

Selective reading or just unwilling to understand what I'm actually saying? I never denied that it takes croplands to feed animals and the same caloric amount in crops goes into the beast, but we don't keep those animals alive as long as we do humans. To feed as many people as we feed animals now with the variety of vegetable matters needed to approximate the nutritional content would cost an extraordinary amount in arable land, but also in shipping costs since people who live in places Ohio (locals farmer's markets...right) can't grow crops year round. You can have locally raised beef, chickens, pigs, deer, elk, bison all year round. And it wouldn't even be the same kind of crops, because we can't digest cellulose like the animals we eat can. We depend on them to do that. But all this is moot since you aren't actually trying to create any kind of change or save the environment. It purely a token feel-good measure.

You still haven't addressed the rest of my points. You self-admittedly aren't doing anything to change a system you don't like, so what's your point? How many fossil fuels are you using to import non-native fruits and vegetables to your table?

I like this fella

Not here to disparage vegetarians or vegans. But I take issue w/ parents who impose that choice on their children (along the same lines of those parents who refuse modern medical care for their children on the basis of religious beliefs, although that's a much more extreme and risky behavior).

One of my wife's co-workers has a daughter who lives in a commune (somewhere in the Atlantic states, as I recall). Strictly organic/vegan. She shows up unannounced once/year, w/ her 3 kids in tow. Came home a couple of weeks ago and announced she's staying until August. Translation - she's broke and wants her parents to feed her and her kids for the next couple of months. Anyway, my wife's colleague is spending a fortune at a local whole foods store. The kids' favorite snack (per their mom's directive) is dried peas. Yes, dried peas. None of the kids are malnourished, per se (GIS Africa for pics of truly malnourished kids) but it's obvious that they all exhibit stunted growth. My wife gave her colleague/grandmother some clothes for a 2-year old - clothes that our 14 month-old outgrew this spring.

In contrast, our kids are offered (and inhale) large servings of fresh fruit and vegetables (sometimes fresh, otherwise frozen) with every meal. And yes, sometimes they eat turkey dogs or pancakes smothered w/ syrup. Regular ol' cows' milk all the while.

Moral of the story: rescue those kids and feed them. Not bacon and Count Chocula, but something more substantial than dried peas and soy milk.

/F$$$ it, kidnap them and feed them nothing but bacon for a year.

jkusmier - there's vegetarian and then there's psychotic, two different things.