FTRA..."If you are really committed to your own attitude - for example, if you are a very committed Democrat - you are more likely to seek congenial information, that is, information that corresponds with your views," Albarracin said.

Article is spot on especially against the Liberals and their very narrow minded and unpatriotic beliefs. I wish more Democrats would be open minded like most Republicans and see that their liberal values actually do harm to the country as a whole.
Instead they should be opening their minds to more constructive and sound ideas from the majority of Americans who although are conservative in thoughts are very accepting of ideas from everyone for the betterment of the Union and the world.

budzilla: All bandwagons lead to stupidity. The Truth can only be found by learning about every side of an issue thoroughly. Labeling yourself such as a atheist/creationist/agnostic/etc... makes you buy into everyone else's take on life. No one labeled group has the complete Truth and even the groups that seem wrong to You always have some Truth because the people in them are only calling it like they see it.

Be understanding of why people believe what they do and you will go far.

That makes no sense at all. You have to follow SOME sort of line of thought. You can't just think nothing.

StaleCoffee: amanogowa:

No. Atheist by definition have a belief on the existence of non-existence of a deity.

That's about the most half assed attempted deflection I've ever seen.

I'm guessing you have a belief about the existence of the non existence of an ice cream shop on the sun, then?

/dismiss

Sorry -- I ment 'or' not 'of'.

Atheist by definition have a belief on the existence or non-existence of a deity.

Most people can get that one on context.

DeanMoriarty: an agnostic doesn't hold a belief in the supernatural, either way. an agnostic simply thinks you can't know one way or the other other.

Would it be fair to say that they lack belief in the supernatural then?

You are all fighting over a limited number of words. Start making more words then you can write long detailed definitions for them.

Wow, some great quotes in this thread.

Thanks, Farkers.

Last One Left: What if I am convinced that I'm close-minded?

This.

tautology n. , pl. -gies . Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; a statement that is necessarily true; using different words to say the same thing twice,

ex. It will either rain or it won't.

servoled: amanogowa: Sigh... "agnostic" is not the same as "atheist".

Not its not... agnosticism relates to a completely different question.

No. It does not.

The opposite of theist is (atheist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not a theist.

The opposite of atheist is (theist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not an atheist.

The opposite of agnostic is (theist or atheist).

Das Meister: give me doughnuts: In what world do you live? Atheists deny the existence of all gods.
I was merely offering my own view of what I consider to be "atheism" in response to someone else's definition. Perhaps what you are expressing is anti-theism.

No. If I am "amoral" I am "without morals". However if I am anti-moral, I would be against the notion of morals. Thus would follow:

Atheism would be equivalent to "absense of god(s)".

Anti-theism would be the opposition to the belief in god(s).

Two completely different things.

Then by your own definition, someone who is "a-theist" is "without gods", and not someone who actively denies that they exist.

jrchan: budzilla: All bandwagons lead to stupidity. The Truth can only be found by learning about every side of an issue thoroughly. Labeling yourself such as a atheist/creationist/agnostic/etc... makes you buy into everyone else's take on life. No one labeled group has the complete Truth and even the groups that seem wrong to You always have some Truth because the people in them are only calling it like they see it.

Be understanding of why people believe what they do and you will go far.

That makes no sense at all. You have to follow SOME sort of line of thought. You can't just think nothing.

Yes, you can think nothing, I've met lots of people that do it.

give me doughnuts: Jubeebee: No, our definition of increments of time is a human construct. Time is a linear dimension, and is as much a part of the universe as the three dimensions of space. Causality is the proof time is a real thing.

The Tralfamadorians disagree.

/hello, goodbye, hello, goodbye

So it goes...

StaleCoffee: To clarify that, if you make the claim "God is unknowable" then you are a theist, because for something to be unknowable, it has to exist in the first place.

This is sounding more and more like Billy Madison.

"if you're contemplating the existence of something, it must exist, or else there would be nothing to contemplate."

go now or i shall taunt you for a second time.

NI

amanogowa: No. It does not.

Sure it does. One is a question of belief, the other is a question of knowledge. Belief is not the same thing as knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

vertiaset: Here are the main problems with Atheism:

First, it is a belief system. Atheists like to say that is in just the absence of a belief system but this is not true. Atheists share a common world view and a common set of beliefs.
Oh really? Where do I go to read up on those common beliefs that I have with all other atheists? Because I sure would like to be one of the cool kids...
They believe that the universe "just happened". That there is no direction or organizing force in the universe. This in spite of scientific evidence that the universe came into being suddenly and ex nihlo.

And where did you get this thought from? Probably from your preacher. Because you are actually stating the Christian creation myth of creation ex nihlo.

They believe that life occurred from non life spontaneously, despite the fact that the universe is seeded with amino acids and other precursor building blocks of life. They make elaborate and complex arguments to explain this away but Occam's razor points to internal design, design inherent within the structure of the universe and within life itself.

It's called organic chemistry. It isn't spontaneous, however it is follows from the same chemical interactions and electromagnetic forces which turn HCl + H₂O + NaOH -> 2 H₂O +Na⁺ + Cl^-.

Atheists claim the high ground of science. However, science tells us that the universe is INFINITE in space and INFINITE in time.

I would appreciate it if you could give us a citation to the study which states that. Because it would actually back up your argument. Otherwise, someone might accuse you of making shiat up.


Moreover, it is postulated that there may be many more universes, each as extensive as our own.

This is the first demonstrably true statement that you have made, which makes me wonder why the hell you are interrupting your little diatribe. Especially since it has nothing to do with your argument about atheism.

Now, infinity. This is a concept that human beings have a hard time grasping.

So what? Humans have a hard time grasping quantum mechanics, but the fact that semiconductors, lasers, and other cool toys work show that we can build devices using the principles of quantum mechanics.

Even mathematicians and physicists deal with the concept symbolically in the abstract.
Because that is what infinity is to a mathematician or a physicist, an abstract concept.

Infinite means that anything with a probability greater than zero, no matter how improbable, must necessarily occur.

ummmm no it doesn't. Infinity means that for whatever number you can think of, I can think of a bigger one.

Now, this idea of improbable events occurring over time is the very argument advanced by science to explain the highly improbable occurrence of the DNA molecule just "happening" in the same space of time that a cellular structure also just "happened".

Nope, but your whaargarbl is entertaining.

Try this. Take 20 - 6 sided dice. Roll them. Now tell me the odds that you were going to get exactly the roll that you got. Talk about improbable odds! But you got them. But you couldn't have because the odds were against that number, so it couldn't have happened.

Cellular structure didn't just "happen". Things followed some fairly well understood principles of physics to get where they are.


After all DNA is useless without such a structure. So, why then is it inconceivable that there is some sort of entity, very different from us, which has structured things the way they are? This answer is far simpler and more elegant than the random bumping of atoms over a few billion years.

I'm getting a headache from you blathering about all sorts of things in which your blather only demonstrates your ignorance.

If you want a reasonable presentation of what is currently the best knowledge chemists currently have for the origin of complex organic molecules and, in turn, life, check out Potholer54's video right here

Finally, as a belief system, atheism is bleak and hopeless. It offers no ethical or moral grounding. Quite the opposite it leads to alienation and disassociation. Some atheists, a tiny minority, embrace secular humanism which provides a moral basis. It would be well if more atheists embraced such a system.

Really, if atheists have no moral grounding, why do countries which have a large population of atheists have lower crime rates than countries which are predominantly theistic?

Do you really get your morals from the Bible? You mean the book which tells you how to treat your slaves?

Or the book which tells you to kill your brother if he is an unbeliever?

Or the book where God commands infanticide?

Or the book where it commands women to marry their rapists?


Is that your "moral center"?

i say quran you say koran

I'm gonna go with this needs an "Unlikely" tag.

I wonder how many baby angels were killed from the blasphemy of this one thread.

amanogowa: servoled: amanogowa: Sigh... "agnostic" is not the same as "atheist".

Not its not... agnosticism relates to a completely different question.

No. It does not.

The opposite of theist is (atheist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not a theist.

The opposite of atheist is (theist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not an atheist.

The opposite of agnostic is (theist or atheist).

oh hai guys, what r we talkin' about?

Clan Xpy: I wonder how many baby angels were killed from the blasphemy of this one thread.

not sure, but i think i provided the material to kill a few kittens.

DeanMoriarty: StaleCoffee: To clarify that, if you make the claim "God is unknowable" then you are a theist, because for something to be unknowable, it has to exist in the first place.

This is sounding more and more like Billy Madison.

"if you're contemplating the existence of something, it must exist, or else there would be nothing to contemplate."

So the flying spaghetti monster IS real. Phew.

maddogdelta

where does HCl + H2O + NaOH come from

Myself being agnostic, I thought it is literally the open-minded view on religion. There may be a supernatural force, or maybe not. I just choose not to pretend I know the answer.

But I guess it is close minded that I assume everyone else is wrong. Except the athiests, who might actually be on to something.

Clan Xpy: I wonder how many baby angels were killed from the blasphemy of this one thread.

I don't know - agnostic

None - atheist

Durrrrrr - theist

CuteAsFark: jrchan: budzilla: All bandwagons lead to stupidity. The Truth can only be found by learning about every side of an issue thoroughly. Labeling yourself such as a atheist/creationist/agnostic/etc... makes you buy into everyone else's take on life. No one labeled group has the complete Truth and even the groups that seem wrong to You always have some Truth because the people in them are only calling it like they see it.

Be understanding of why people believe what they do and you will go far.

That makes no sense at all. You have to follow SOME sort of line of thought. You can't just think nothing.

Yes, you can think nothing, I've met lots of people that do it.

So when you ask them: "Do you think god exists?", how do they respond?

So any religion is closed minded and unable to comprehend or accept that there are other choices, due to the fact they don't actually believe their own teachings?.?

OK sounds about right to me.

You know, I'm kinda tired of the false equivalences here. I have had no less than 20 visits in the last several years to my home from various nutjobs of the religious persuasion, some political canvassers, even people who kicked their ball into my yard, but never once an atheist.

And I live in San Francisco!

Intolerance, willful ignorance, and proselytization are the demenses of the religious nut, not the atheist, and those who like to come to these threads and hate on atheists or place them in the same category are disingenuous agendistas. The bottom line is there's just no way that an eternal truth can be false - and all religious truths are false if you go back in time far enough.

SobrietyFighter 2009-07-02 03:07:33 PM

I applaud you for re-directing the conversation in a very value-added way.

So...where does your church hold services? Cuz I need to do me some worshippin'! Church of the Pleated Miniskirt? Cheer Church? I'm there.

servoled: Would it be fair to say that they lack belief in the supernatural then?

"does not hold a belief."

I'm not sure how this is confusing.

jrchan: CuteAsFark: jrchan: budzilla: All bandwagons lead to stupidity. The Truth can only be found by learning about every side of an issue thoroughly. Labeling yourself such as a atheist/creationist/agnostic/etc... makes you buy into everyone else's take on life. No one labeled group has the complete Truth and even the groups that seem wrong to You always have some Truth because the people in them are only calling it like they see it.

Be understanding of why people believe what they do and you will go far.

That makes no sense at all. You have to follow SOME sort of line of thought. You can't just think nothing.

Yes, you can think nothing, I've met lots of people that do it.

So when you ask them: "Do you think god exists?", how do they respond?

Durrrrrr....

maddogdelta: Or the book which tells you to

quote mine out of context?

/am I getting warmer?
// :{

I mean cuz that same book said that God told Abraham to kill Isaac to test his faith, so clearly God is telling us that we all should kill our children...

amirite?!

SobrietyFighter: go now or i shall taunt you for a second time.

NI

Finally! a Voice of reason beneath all this WHARRBGARRBLL.


/Anyways, here's a constant thing
//We all Die!

so someone says pull my finger:

theist : pull the finger and accept the consequences

atheist : know the consequences so don't

agnostic : pull the finger anyway for comedic relief

Jadedgrl: SobrietyFighter: Jadedgrl: I'm an atheist because I can't stand being wishy washy about anything. For me, it's better for me to have no faith, then say well maybe.
That and I think the concept of God is a crock of shiat.

LOL, so would you rather get oral or have sex? thats one to be wishy washy about.

Get oral. Hands down.

Weird, every girl I've been with had a much more intense orgasm from vaginal sex, than oral. Sucks for you

Dr._Love: You know, I'm kinda tired of the false equivalences here. I have had no less than 20 visits in the last several years to my home from various nutjobs of the religious persuasion, some political canvassers, even people who kicked their ball into my yard, but never once an atheist.

And I live in San Francisco!

Intolerance, willful ignorance, and proselytization are the demenses of the religious nut, not the atheist, and those who like to come to these threads and hate on atheists or place them in the same category are disingenuous agendistas. The bottom line is there's just no way that an eternal truth can be false - and all religious truths are false if you go back in time far enough.

I live in Texas and nobody of either side has come to my house, or even attempted to preach about their idealogy anywhere.

/except once, there was this communist dude handing out pamphlets

rastjr: Maybe. But maybe not. Which one works better for you and the world?

Being a good person, of course. But do you really need a deity to tell you what's good?

DeanMoriarty: servoled: Would it be fair to say that they lack belief in the supernatural then?

"does not hold a belief."

I'm not sure how this is confusing.

Thats a "no" then?

Wow there's a lot of "no, I'm going to tell you what you believe" in this thread. The article could be about this thread.

Agnostics are the only honest ones around because everyone else knows the answer, even though that is impossible, they still have all the answers about the 'supreme being'.

it is arrogant that so many people claim to know what 'God' is thinking, assuming 'it' exists.

Agnostic and proud of it.

PS -- loved the t-shirt that says:I'd rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven"

cruel humor, but funny anyway.

amanogowa: servoled: amanogowa: Sigh... "agnostic" is not the same as "atheist".

Not its not... agnosticism relates to a completely different question.

No. It does not.

The opposite of theist is (atheist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not a theist.

The opposite of atheist is (theist or agnostic).

It is possible to be either, and not an atheist.

The opposite of agnostic is (theist or atheist).



that's full of crap too. theist, atheist and agnostic are not three parts of the same belief system.

Agnosticism, AGAIN, applies to the ability to know something. KNOW. Not BELIEVE.

The opposite of agnostic is gnostic - believing you can know the absolute truth.

If I said "I'm gnostic about the existence of god," I'm saying that i have knowledge about the existence of god - not saying there is or is not a god.

Last One Left: What if I am convinced that I'm close-minded?

then you have reached the next level, grasshopper.

Linux_Yes: Agnostics are the only honest ones around because everyone else knows the answer, even though that is impossible, they still have all the answers about the 'supreme being'.

it is arrogant that so many people claim to know what 'God' is thinking, assuming 'it' exists.

Agnostic and proud of it.

PS -- loved the t-shirt that says:I'd rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven"

cruel humor, but funny anyway.

honest to who? themselves? other people?

there's nothing more close minded than a bible thumper from the south. those burnouts have ALL the answers. course, Hitler did too, but that is another story.......

Now that I have your attention. I think this whole thread went apeshiat the moment subby placed the article.

So what if the agnostics believe and don't at the same time? As long as they're not shoving it down your throats, there's no problem.

The problem here, is that subby was looking for a flamewar.