Now now, lets not be too hard on Obama.

Even when you wish to meet without preconditions, it's still difficult to achieve peace in our time.

Phil Herup: Do you even have all of your teeth?

How many have you lost so far?

Up until last year I had all my teeth, including wisdom teeth and two extras on the mandible that came in when I was 35.

My previous dentist looked in my mouth the first time and said 'Wow, you've got a lot of teeth', counted, counted again, muttered something, took an x-ray and then told me that I had not only the full complement but an extra pair.

Had them and the wisdom teeth out last year and its just weird not having a bite surface that goes all the way back to the back of my jaw.

What's this story about? No idea.

/shark teeth motherfarker

Murkanen: t3knomanser: Watching liberals and conservatives go at it- it's like watching a character with Chaotic Evil bickering with a Lawful Evil character. They're both evil, they just have different ways of doing it.

//+5 Vorpal Holy Keen Scimitar for that DnD reference.

DarnoKonrad: This is not rocket science liam.

"a Honduran authority suggested that forcing Zelaya into exile might have been illegal."

Rule of law demands due process. Shuttling his ass to the border is not due process. You have to make him face the charges against him. What happened was a coup. Which why every nation in the western hemisphere is calling it a coup.

Exile was illegal. Not the arrest. Not the removal from office.

What makes a coup is the arrest and/or removal of office, not what you do with the person afterwards.

Also this is the first I have read about the attorney general saying any portion fo this was illegal. You have been calling it a coup since yesterday, which makes me think you made up your mind and are just looking for facts to back it up. That is the difference between you and me.

eraser8: Skleenar: Other important questions:

Should Obama kick this puppy? Yes | No
Should Obama outlaw Christianity? Yes | No
Should Obama rape Grandma? Yes | No

I don't know about the others...but he should definitely rape Grandma.

Are you watching and learning conservatives? This is how it is done. There is nothing that says quality satire, caricature, comment and irony quite like a good grandma rape joke.

Phil Herup: eraser8: Right wing satirical images are never funny. Never. They are never insightful. They are never well done.

Translation: "Na na na na na na ... I can't hear you."

Google Image Search for "Republican women"



You know who else thought highly of Republican TV icons? (new window)

I am a lifelong Conservative Republican .

I have an Associates Degree in the Science of Electronics .

Ann Coulter is a Goddess and I worship Laura Ingraham and Michele Malkin .



Conservative Internet Tough Guys: hope for a Liberal judge because in their hearts they know where truth and fairness really reside.

What an ugly Democrat woman might look like.

L82DPRT: So long as everything is running smooth at United Fruit. Hate for the banana supply to be disrupted.

Ha! The only other time I've heard United Fruit referenced was in a Stephen King audio book, In The Deathroom. Apparently they are a very evil corporation in the eyes of communist Latin America.

Phil Herup is the only troll who actually puts a smile on my face. It's like watching a grand artist paint, only infinitely more entertaining.

God's Hubris: What an ugly Democrat woman might look like.

The grammar is not strong with this one.

God's Hubris: What an ugly Democrat woman might look like.

It's so unfair that any politician can land a wife like that.

Sodden Moxie: Ha! The only other time I've heard United Fruit referenced was in a Stephen King audio book, In The Deathroom. Apparently they are a very evil corporation in the eyes of communist Latin America.

If I'm not mistaken, and I very well may be, they are the cause of the phrase "Banana Republic".

/too lazy to look it up this morning

IronTony: Phil Herup is the only troll who actually puts a smile on my face. It's like watching a grand artist paint with his own feces, only infinitely more entertaining.

FTFY

Where did Kyle Shiver go to school? Who hired this person to write such garbage?

If "The American Thinker" wants people to take them seriously, they need to hire an editor or something.

Murkanen 2009-07-02 09:30:53 AM
The grammar is not strong with this one.


The snarkometer is not strong with this one.

/it was obvious in my mind

liam76: A coup doesn't have the backing of the Supreme Court, and the unanimous support of the Congress.

After the fact, sure. Bit different there, yeah? The military just removed the one leader, by force, then asked the remaining political instutions "anyone got a problem with this?" is one intrepretation one could make of this, another being them saying to the military "Thank God you got rid of that pendejo" is another. Obviously this guy was at war with his own military (which, given the history of the region, makes me think he has a death wish) and yeah after the fact did their Supreme Court and Congress say YEA!; but calling this a coup is less a judgment than a simple statement of what transpired that night. If not a coup, what would you call it. The former president's Happy Fun Costa Rica tour? How would you react if, when the police went to arrest political leader here, instead of holding them for trial, dumped them in Canada? Does the time line bother you at all, that it took the Honduran Military 4 days to produce this detention order?

I also find it interesting that TFA faults Obama for snubbing allies when, on this matter, Obama seems rather in form with the rest of the world.

Still, I have seen no evidence that the removal of Zelaya was illegal under Honduran law. If his removal was not illegal, it was not a "coup d'etat." Reports from Honduras indicate the removal was legal and supported - even initiated - by Zelaya's own party, the main opposition party, all branches of government, and most Hondurans.

Has anyone found an English copy of the Honduran constitution yet? Someone was quoting articles from it in yesterday's thread, but wouldn't link to it.

liam76: DarnoKonrad: This is not rocket science liam.

"a Honduran authority suggested that forcing Zelaya into exile might have been illegal."

Rule of law demands due process. Shuttling his ass to the border is not due process. You have to make him face the charges against him. What happened was a coup. Which why every nation in the western hemisphere is calling it a coup.

Exile was illegal. Not the arrest. Not the removal from office.

What makes a coup is the arrest and/or removal of office, not what you do with the person afterwards.

Also this is the first I have read about the attorney general saying any portion fo this was illegal. You have been calling it a coup since yesterday, which makes me think you made up your mind and are just looking for facts to back it up. That is the difference between you and me.

Every news source is calling it a coup -- since the day it happened (you relize there's a world beyond Fark trolling OpEd pieces by rightwing lunatics right?). Even the lousy WSJ. Every government in the western hemisphere is calling it a coup. The OAS called it a coup. Nations have removed their ambassadors in Hondouras -- except for us.

And you're reverting to your time honored semantic games.

The arrest was done by the military, not the police. Irregular. His removal from office before being brought up on charges. Irregular. His exile. Irregular.

When they do it the right way, governments will stop biatching.

Until then, Hondouras is making itself a pariah and violating its own laws.

Phil Herup: Right I'm threadshiatting.

LOL

adamgreeney: Phil Herup: eraser8: Phil Herup: Translation: "Na na na na na na ... I can't hear you."


That's more your response to my post than it is a translation of what I wrote.

Sort of like Brtiney Spears Speculum and pictures of Michelle Malkin? Or is that differnt?

Perfect example of the classic " No U!" response.

I like how you try to defend yourself from the thredshiatting accusations by posting irrelevant pictures and not engaging in any kind of discourse. Classic.

canyoneer: till, I have seen no evidence that the removal of Zelaya was illegal under Honduran law.

How about the Honduran Attorney General saying it is? This is so busted it looks like you guys are being willfully obtuse.

DarnoKonrad: "Until then, Hondouras is making itself a pariah and violating its own laws."

How do you know that?

God's Hubris: The snarkometer is not strong with this one.

/it was obvious in my mind

Snark meet Poe's law, Poe's law meet snark.

Another hideous Democrat woman:


/be back in a few minutes

I'm starting to wonder if the flood of incoherent rants from the right isn't part of some sort of false-flag operation. What happened to all their decent writers?

Clarence Potter: After the fact, sure. Bit different there, yeah? The military just removed the one leader, by force, then asked the remaining political instutions "anyone got a problem with this?" is one intrepretation one could make of this, another being them saying to the military "Thank God you got rid of that pendejo" is another. Obviously this guy was at war with his own military (which, given the history of the region, makes me think he has a death wish) and yeah after the fact did their Supreme Court and Congress say YEA!; but calling this a coup is less a judgment than a simple statement of what transpired that night. If not a coup, what would you call it. The former president's Happy Fun Costa Rica tour? How would you react if, when the police went to arrest political leader here, instead of holding them for trial, dumped them in Canada? Does the time line bother you at all, that it took the Honduran Military 4 days to produce this detention order?

The Supreme court have said they gave the order to arrest to the military prior to the arrest. I have heard other people commenting that the Congress also agreed before hand, but have not heard any statements to that affect from a congressional spokesperson. The Attorney General has said ntohing about the arrest itself being illegal.

You are assuming the military arrested him prior to getting orders from the Cupreme Court or the Congress. If you are right, then yes it was a coup. However the versions I have read from the Attorney General, the Supreme Court, and what reporters have said about Congress disagree.

Clarence Potter: I also find it interesting that TFA faults Obama for snubbing allies when, on this matter, Obama seems rather in form with the rest of the world.

The article is a pile of shiat.

canyoneer: DarnoKonrad: "Until then, Hondouras is making itself a pariah and violating its own laws."

How do you know that?

I have google news and I can read?

DarnoKonrad 2009-07-02 09:41:49 AM
I have google news and I can read?

C'mon, Fark Independents^TM are used to taking a knife to a gun fight, but don't rub it in their faces.

DarnoKonrad: "How about the Honduran Attorney General saying it is? This is so busted it looks like you guys are being willfully obtuse."

You didn't read your own link very carefully, did you? Here's the quote:

It was the first time a Honduran authority suggested that forcing Zelaya into exile might have been illegal. "There were events that don't comply with the law," Urtecho said in an interview with a small group of reporters. "We are investigating why they did not execute the order and bring him to the corresponding authorities." (new window)

This fellow isn't saying Zelaya's removal might have been illegal, he's saying exiling Zelaya may have been illegal. He goes on to say "his office filed charges against Zelaya last week for abuse of power and treason, and issued an arrest warrant." IOW, the Honduran attorney general wants Zelaya so he can prosecute and jail him. Nowhere is it suggested by the Honduran attorney general that Zelaya's removal from power was illegal.

Come on, man. Don't make sh*t up.

DarnoKonrad: And you're reverting to your time honored semantic games.

I am playing semantic games?

A coup is an illegal removal from power. A coup isn't an exile that might be illegal (your source).

Unless you can point me to an expert on Honduran law that has more credability than the Supreme Court, and the Attorney General that says it was an illegal remmoval it isn't a coup.

That isn't a semantic game, words mean something. Calling this a coup with the facts on hand is just as dumb as calling the "war on drugs" a war.

One coup in the world is denounced and another supported. Welcome to 1960s America!

liam76: You are assuming the military arrested him prior to getting orders from the Cupreme Court or the Congress. If you are right, then yes it was a coup. However the versions I have read from the Attorney General, the Supreme Court, and what reporters have said about Congress disagree.

Sure that is what they say now. Like I said: The Military removes the guy then goes around and asks everyone "We did good, right? We wanted to ask you before we unloaded our weapons" is unfortunately the sort of more realistic fact pattern that emerges when one views this event in context with the last 100 years history of Honduras and Central America. I note with interest that the Honduran Congress also, the day after the man's... "evacuation" also produced a letter from the traveler ostensibly outlining his resignation from office. One wonders if this resignation and the HSC order came from the same pen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm

Here's what I think would have happened: His self-serving, stupid, illegal, non-binding, and ill-conceived referendum would have won, which would have upset the apple cart a bit too. What's his name would have used that like a bloody shirt to paint his opposition in nice bright pastels,and this precluded that.

Nemo's Brother: A radical leftist authoritarian who wishes to violate the nation's constitution for self-interest and glory? I think the coup hit a little too close to home for a certain POTUS.

Nicely summed up.

liam76: Calling this a coup with the facts on hand is just as dumb as calling the "war on drugs" a war.

No, a coup is any time the military takes over the government. There is no "legal versus illegal" coup.

Democracy is a joke. The tyranny of the majority almost always ruins it. It's just our lame-ass justification for meddling in the affairs of other countries (and wasting TONs of money in the process).

John Stuart Mill:

Like other tyrannies, the tyranny of the majority was at first, and is still vulgarly, held in dread, chiefly as operating through the acts of the public authorities. But reflecting persons perceived that when society is itself the tyrant - society collectively over the separate individuals who compose it - its means of tyrannizing are not restricted to the acts which it may do by the hands of its political functionaries. Society can and does execute its own mandates; and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with which it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. Protection, therefore, against the tyranny of the magistrate is not enough; there needs protection also against the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling, against the tendency of society to impose, by other means than civil penalties, its own ideas and practices as rules of conduct on those who dissent from them; to fetter the development and, if possible, prevent the formation of any individuality not in harmony with its ways, and compel all characters to fashion themselves upon the model of its own. There is a limit to the legitimate interference of collective opinion with individual independence; and to find that limit, and maintain it against encroachment, is as indispensable to a good condition of human affairs as protection against political despotism. - On Liberty, The Library of Liberal Arts edition, p.7.

Do any of you idiots whining about Honduras realize that every single country that has voiced an opinion about the matter in Honduras has condemned the coup?

You people are deranged. Full-blown Obama Derangement Syndrome.

El_Swino

I'm starting to wonder if the flood of incoherent rants from the right isn't part of some sort of false-flag operation. What happened to all their decent writers?

I wasn't aware there were any. Oh wait, Christopher Hitchens is a pretty good writer, so they do have that going for them

pkellmey: liam76: Calling this a coup with the facts on hand is just as dumb as calling the "war on drugs" a war.

No, a coup is any time the military takes over the government. There is no "legal versus illegal" coup.

Except that the military did not take over the government here. The Honduran Congress has formally removed the President and named his replacement (who should now be recognized as the President of Honduras).

pkellmey: No, a coup is any time the military takes over the government. There is no "legal versus illegal" coup.

the military was listening to the COngress and the Supreme court, not acting on their own.

Clarence Potter: Sure that is what they say now. Like I said: The Military removes the guy then goes around and asks everyone "We did good, right? We wanted to ask you before we unloaded our weapons" is unfortunately the sort of more realistic fact pattern that emerges when one views this event in context with the last 100 years history of Honduras and Central America. I note with interest that the Honduran Congress also, the day after the man's... "evacuation" also produced a letter from the traveler ostensibly outlining his resignation from office. One wonders if this resignation and the HSC order came from the same pen.

I think the resignation is most likely garbage. And it makes me suspiscious.

But your BBC link has no proof that the military didn't have prior approval of the Supreme Court.

You might disagree that they are telling the truth, but surely you can appreciate that they may not want to be to public before hand givent he clashes between the military and civilians, and his police force.

This is the last I will say on the matter. If it comes out that the military did act prior to approval of the supreme court and or the Congress, it was a coup. If not his removal (but possibly not his exile) was completely legal.

You know, Republicans/conservatives are going to spin any world event in any way they can to make Obama look bad. It is like some kind of Obama derangement syndrome.

I would attack Obama for being too much like Bush on matters of domestic governance, but not for what he did and didn't say about Honduras or Iran.

As to whether I had Bush derangement syndrome, I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt. but I saw the kind of person he was when he did a photo-op with rescued miners from a cave-in, then weakened miner safety a few months later. But I don't remember being on his every move from day one of his presidency.

Actually that's kind of like Obama with the gays, secrecy, war on terror.
Boys and girls we elected ourselves yet another politician to the white house. We can comfort ourselves in knowing Obama is slightly less bad than McCain and Palin isn't VP.

\the one strong plus to Obama's presidency is scaling back the war on drugs when it comes to marijuana
\\I don't do pot but I believe strongly in legalizing it

Egalitarian,

Exactly right. Obama is just slightly left of the nazi bush. But compared to the rest of the world he is a fascist lite. We need a real Liveral party to stand up for gays, women, and the working man.

Obama derangement syndrome.

ODS is balanced by Chronic Obamapologism.

heh-heh. You said "jizzum".

Sorry. That should be Liberal party.

But seriously folks. Give Obama a year and we'll see what he's made of. Whats he been in there maybe 170 days? He probably doesn't even know where the best bathrooms are yet.

Egalitarian: You know, Republicans/conservatives are going to spin any world event in any way they can to make Obama look bad. It is like some kind of Obama derangement syndrome.

I think he has handled Iran perfectly.

I think he has acted too rashly with Honduras.

Bocanegra: Don't forget this charming tidbit:

What Is Wrong With America?

What is wrong with our values? It's not that hard to figure out. What's wrong is that we have been hit with some Boom Boom Boom.

[Black Eyes Peas video

Sorry, I just decided to cite something else from your source (new window).

Y'passive racist sons-of-biatches. =)

Lord_Baull: Phil Herup is a modern day FlashLV.
He comes in, threadshiats, then spends the rest of the thread moving the goalposts and obfuscating.

I know a place where flocks of Flash
\and he claims that he voted for Obama

And you're right, Phil Herup is vewwy similar. But his MO is different. I'm pretty sure he's not Flash.

liam76: I think the resignation is most likely garbage. And it makes me suspiscious.

But your BBC link has no proof that the military didn't have prior approval of the Supreme Court.

I never said it did or did not have prior approval of the HSC, which is why I said "one wonders", which you must have missed. Where did I say or imply that? Like I said, given the history of the region, the fake resignation letter, the convenient blackouts (cannot remember another time when a politician's detention coincided with a blackout, can you?), the muffling of the now-opposition media, jailing of supporteres of the traveling man; if it quacks like a duck...

liam76: You might disagree that they are telling the truth, but surely you can appreciate that they may not want to be to public before hand givent he clashes between the military and civilians, and his police force.

Actually, no I cannot, and this is the sheer stupidity of their argument and I suppose (by extension) yours: They're safe-guarding the democratic institutuions of Honduras by blanking power, muffling the media, and doing all of this in secret? Do you honestly believe that? If their actions had the full sanction of the HSC, the Congress, the Attorney General, the Human Rights Ombudsman, and grandma; why not arrange for this in the light of day where you have, say, the AG announcing this LEGAL procedure over the airwaves while the Military detains the man (detains, not exiles), while the Congress appoints a new leader for the country? Which has the greater weight of legitimacy both in the eyes of the average Honduran and the world at large?