Doesn't your average libertarian believe the free market is sacred, plus or minus the literal religious connotations?

Add a dash of Strict Constitutionalism (plus or minus some Truthers) and you've got your garden variety Paultard.

sgilman 2009-07-02 12:18:07 AM
FTA: Founded in 1935 in opposition to FDR's New Deal, the right-wing fundamentalist religious group organizes prayer meetings for Congressmen, as well as the annual National Prayer Breakfast.

"That explains a lot, republicans lost their minds over the new deal. They even tried to organize a military coup to overthrow him."

Now that you mention it our current economic situation is pretty similar to 1935 and Fox News did just advocate a major terrorist attack against the United States. In light of these parallels the teabaggers now seem less funny and more dangerous.

RemyDuron: Hillary Clinton is also a member. One of the creepiest groups I've ever heard of.

I have a real hard time believing that, I've read her book, she has never come across as terribly religious, and she's ALWAYS been fairly pro-gay (for a pandering politician). I'd like a citation.

Also, I heard this interview and was terrified at the end.

PenguinTheRed: Possible leader

Came for the Fallout 3 ref; leaving satisfied.

Seemed appropriate.

detfrost1:
I have a real hard time believing that, I've read her book, she has never come across as terribly religious, and she's ALWAYS been fairly pro-gay (for a pandering politician). I'd like a citation.

they're just two fundie hypocrits. meh.

RemyDuron: Hillary Clinton is also a member. One of the creepiest groups I've ever heard of.

I thought she was a godless communist.

I know this will be wasted on Fark but here goes.
These guys are using Christianity, as they define it, to justify the sins and hypocrisy their own lives. They remind me of a guy I knew who dumped his wife for a younger sportier model. He claimed that his hot babe was actually the woman God had chosen for her and not his wife and mother of his kids. His church would have none of it but this guy found all kinds of "proofs" in scripture to justify his actions. It made no difference what his pastors said to him, what his friends said to him or what his wife said to him. He was going to do what he wanted to do.

These guys are just like him, twisting scripture to their own ends.

Also David was in the opinion of many Biblical scholars, punished by God for his many sins. He may have been Gods chosen guy but that does not mean that God was behind him 100%.

I'll bet there isn't one real theologian amongst this groups numbers and never has been.

LockeOak: RemyDuron: ghare: RemyDuron: ghare: These guys are considered heretics by most churches.

Something tells me they are secretive for a reason, because if people knew many high up Republicans and a few Democrats were members of an elitist cult that believe God appeared in the form of the head of US Steel, they might think twice about voting for these people.

Sadly, I think this could be the ONLY thing on every news channel and newspaper for the next 5 weeks, and it wouldn't make any difference.

/But HRC????

I remember this group being mentioned in the election. Of course, all that got mentioned was that they were secretive and had a lot of high profile members. The whole batshiat crazy prosperity doctrine stuff didn't get mentioned.

Instead they showed that clip of Wright saying "God damn America!" 5 more times.

Hmm... prosperity doctrine vs. "kill whitey." I think I might prefer the "kill whitey", if only because hey, I can understand being put out by slavery. Much preferable to Ayn Randist douchebaggery.

/whitey

Wright's a nut, but his initial comments were not really bad unless you took them out of context and played him up as a scary black preacher.

"If America kills innocent people, not God bless America, no no no, God damn America!" I always wondered if people who had a problem with this really supported America killing innocent people, or just thought God would be cool with it.

And the other bit was essentially saying 9/11 was a response to our foreign policy. Which is, you know, true. Unless you believe 9/11 was done because "they hated our freedom."

The Family is far more disturbing, IMO.

Notabunny: Does this mean another one of those Dan Brown books is on the way?

Nah, this is actually real and interesting, so Dan Brown will never write about it.

/Just read Foucault's Pendulum and the Illuminatus! Trilogy, then you've read a better version of everything Dan Brown has ever written.

Delawheredad: These guys are using Christianity, as they define it, to justify the sins and hypocrisy their own lives. They remind me of a guy I knew who dumped his wife for a younger sportier model. He claimed that his hot babe was actually the woman God had chosen for her and not his wife and mother of his kids. His church would have none of it but this guy found all kinds of "proofs" in scripture to justify his actions. It made no difference what his pastors said to him, what his friends said to him or what his wife said to him. He was going to do what he wanted to do.

These guys are just like him, twisting scripture to their own ends.

There are good people and bad people (through whatever combination of nature and nurture) who both use religion to justify their actions.

While it's comforting to believe Hitler was possessed by Satan and Mother Theresa was a saint, they both really enjoyed doing what they did on a human level.

Anyone else remember the second season of Deadliest Catch when one of the captains they followed was a fundie? Remember how he lost his shiat when they announced they'd no longer be having a free for all for crab season? Apparently God only wants people to make money right now, screw being able to make it tomorrow, safety, nature or anything else right now.

detfrost1: RemyDuron: Hillary Clinton is also a member. One of the creepiest groups I've ever heard of.

I have a real hard time believing that, I've read her book, she has never come across as terribly religious, and she's ALWAYS been fairly pro-gay (for a pandering politician). I'd like a citation.

Also, I heard this interview and was terrified at the end.

These guys are a bigger threat to America than Osama and Saddam could ever hope to be.

detfrost1: RemyDuron: Hillary Clinton is also a member. One of the creepiest groups I've ever heard of.

I have a real hard time believing that, I've read her book, she has never come across as terribly religious, and she's ALWAYS been fairly pro-gay (for a pandering politician). I'd like a citation.

Also, I heard this interview and was terrified at the end.

I remember it being mentioned in the campaign, in the context of "We've heard a lot about Obama's church, but what about Hillary's?"

Wikipedia mentions it with these sources:
Link
Link

The second link doesn't call them the Family, but the prayer group lead by Douglas Coe is the Family.

Ahhh. That explains so much. Fascinating.

PenguinTheRed: Possible leader

That's like a mini nuke of pure win.

Save America from false Christians.

ghare: These guys are a bigger threat to America than Osama and Saddam could ever hope to be.

I agree, but I wouldn't call them a threat. What they want is a world that they can be in charge of. The irony is that they could never get this wish. They could seek to control humanity through delusion and a consolidation of power, but they will never control humanity; if total control was possible, marijuana wouldn't still be smoked despite being outlawed, speeding wouldn't happen, etc. Laws and other socially-based restrictions never completely control anything. And these people are so anal about power that they can't realize that it's impossible. Every dictatorship falls. Nothing is permanent, and squealing to Jesus only tricks people into thinking your way and is a lousy way to control people. I don't fear people who think they can control people. I won't fear a bunch of stupid Jesus freaks who, despite having tons of power and wealth, are still unable to roll back benefits to a working/lower class they created with their pathetic greed.

The rich are a pathetic lot and should be treated as such. For all their 'power,' they are just sad losers who aren't happy with themselves and don't know the first thing about life. They aren't part of life and they use power and money to cover up for their shortcomings. So fark them. They should be exposed for the losers and lunatics that they are, along with their crappy club and their pathetic sideshow.

These people deserve many things; ridicule, mockery, insults. Fear isn't one of them.

Yay, more idiots who believe that the market is rational despite all evidence contrary.

CaptMacMillian: Yay, more idiots who believe that the market is rational despite all evidence contrary.

It doesn't have to be rational if it's God! It simply has to be obeyed!

Ugh...

Twelve page article written by author of TFA's book in Harpers Magazine.

From what I'm reading, I would probably not label this group a cult, but it does bear a great many of the markers. The only thing that I can see which its lacking is a central leader, and the degree to which the other markers are implemented.

- Specialized terminology: "brothers", "poor", "believer"

- Possible love bombing: "At Ivanwald, men learn to be leaders by loving their leaders. "They're so busy loving us," a brother once explained to me, "but who's loving them?" We were."

- Manual labor and servitude as part of 'training': "The brothers each paid $400 per month for room and board, but we were also the caretakers of The Cedars, cleaning its gutters, mowing its lawns, whacking weeds and blowing leaves and sanding."

- Devaluing standard societal norms and replacing them with cult ideology: "Doug [...] was more concerned that the focus on labels like "Christian" might get in the way of the congressman's prayers. Religion distracts people from Jesus, Doug said, and allows them to isolate Christ's will from their work in the world."

- Ritualized activity designed to tire both mind and body, leaving no time for introspection or self reflection (same principle as manual labor/servitude): "Bump was designed to bring out your hostilities. The Family believes that you can't grow in Jesus unless you "face your anger," and then abandon it. When bump worked right, each man was supposed to lose himself, forgetting even the precepts of the game. Sometimes you wanted to get the ball in, sometimes you wanted to knock it out. In, out, it didn't matter. Your ball, his, who cared? Bump wasn't horseplay, it was a physicalized theology."

- Contact with external world cut-off or minimalized: "The regimen was so precise it was relaxing: no swearing, no drinking, no sex, no self. Watch out for magazines and don't waste time on newspapers and never watch TV. "

Particularly worrying:

There they forge "relationships" beyond the din of vox populi (the Family's leaders consider democracy a manifestation of ungodly pride) and "throw away religion" in favor of the truths of the Family. Declaring God's covenant with the Jews broken, the group's core members call themselves "the new chosen."

"A covenant," Doug answered. The congressman half-smiled, as if caught between confessing his ignorance and pretending he knew what Doug was talking about. "Like the Mafia," Doug clarified. "Look at the strength of their bonds." He made a fist and held it before Tiahrt's face. Tiahrt nodded, squinting. "See, for them it's honor," Doug said. "For us, it's Jesus."

Coe listed other men who had changed the world through the strength of the covenants they had forged with their "brothers": "Look at Hitler," he said. "Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Bin Laden." The Family, of course, possessed a weapon those leaders lacked: the "total Jesus" of a brotherhood in Christ.

And I've only read about half of it.

And by "obey", I mean do whatever the clergy tell us God wants us to do. It's not like we mere plebians can know the whims of the almighty.

That's why our betters are so eager to . . . serve us.

I love that the peskiest hurdle to reconciling Christianity to the ideology of the modern day GOP is Christ himself.

This quote by Jim Wallis sums it up:

"There's no more central theme in the Bible than the immorality of inequality. Jesus speaks more about the gap between rich and poor than he does about heaven and hell."

Or this one by Graef Crystal:

"Plato told Aristotle no one should make more than five times the pay of the lowest member of society. J.P. Morgan said 20 times. Jesus advocated a negative differential - that's why they killed him."


And it's true, too... You can bet if Jesus were to arise in the U.S. today and speak the exact same gospel... Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, et al would declare him public enemy number #1. And if he were to develop a following... ohhh boy. Nobody'd be racing faster to nail him to a cross than the GOP.

The best part is that if you ever want to see a Republican do an immediate about-face on religion in government, you start talking about Jesus' teachings.

"Charity's great... It's not the government's job, though!!!"

Beating down the homo's and all the other random miscellany, sure... "We're a CHRISTian nation!!!!" but the stuff Jesus CHRIST actually SAID? They wanna separate the fark out of that...

Prospero424: And by "obey", I mean do whatever the clergy tell us God wants us to do. It's not like we mere plebians can know the whims of the almighty.

That's why our betters are so eager to . . . serve us.

"It's a cookbook!"

Driving Without Pants: "It's a cookbook!"

Hehehehe, exactly.

breakfast?
ok.

i'm gonna make poached eggs. put them on toasted onion bagels; sauteed ham, onions, mushrooms and garlic.
slide a few slices of avocado in the middle, a tablespoon or two of my girlfriend's mom's salsa on top with a side of sliced tomatoes.

I already knew about this bunch, so the Fallout references were a welcome derail that I didn't see coming.

/And I should've.
//So many bloodpacks I've sold that cap dispenser guy...

Do they believe in helter skelter, too?

ninjakirby: the Family's leaders consider democracy a manifestation of ungodly pride

I'm not especially well-versed on either man's biography, but a cursory examination seems to reveal some rather telling parallels between Mark Coe and Leo Strauss.

Guntram Shatterhand - ghare: These guys are a bigger threat to America than Osama and Saddam could ever hope to be.

I agree, but I wouldn't call them a threat. What they want is a world that they can be in charge of. The irony is that they could never get this wish. They could seek to control humanity through delusion and a consolidation of power, but they will never control humanity; if total control was possible, marijuana wouldn't still be smoked despite being outlawed, speeding wouldn't happen, etc. Laws and other socially-based restrictions never completely control anything. And these people are so anal about power that they can't realize that it's impossible. Every dictatorship falls. Nothing is permanent, and squealing to Jesus only tricks people into thinking your way and is a lousy way to control people. I don't fear people who think they can control people. I won't fear a bunch of stupid Jesus freaks who, despite having tons of power and wealth, are still unable to roll back benefits to a working/lower class they created with their pathetic greed.

The rich are a pathetic lot and should be treated as such. For all their 'power,' they are just sad losers who aren't happy with themselves and don't know the first thing about life. They aren't part of life and they use power and money to cover up for their shortcomings. So fark them. They should be exposed for the losers and lunatics that they are, along with their crappy club and their pathetic sideshow.

These people deserve many things; ridicule, mockery, insults. Fear isn't one of them.


Truer words...

Due to the nature of my job, (advertising/TV, but in a niche in which my clients tend to be extremely successful professionals) I'm around the "creme de la creme" of the high society set quite a bit, both at work and at play. (fundraisers, socials, "gala celebrations", and what-not)

They are among some of the most miserably insecure people you'll ever meet. They don't know how to function outside of a social hierarchy. It's the only way they seem to know how to gauge their worth. Strangely, many... hell, most of them are as nice as can be in and of themselves. But the desire to measure each other and "measure up" TO each other is EXTREMELY pervasive and consuming.

Get them among the pack, and they become different people. People who'll chat happy as clams with me for an hour during the day, won't give me more than the slimmest non-commital greeting at an event. Because when it comes right down to it, I'm the help. I'm not one of them, and they can't be seen being too chummy with me. They've got to be seen with the "right" people.

It's really like a sorority... a bunch of people who voluntarily spend all of their time together, but who all hate each other's guts, but who are all desperately concerned with what the others all think of them... It's perverse.

Worse yet, it's contagious. Spend much time among them, and it starts catching. I often have to remind myself that I don't care about that shiat... because it's natural, you spend time with people, you want to fit in. So, I occasionally have to remind myself that I don't WANT to spend time with them... that it's just part of my job and that the world is full of perfectly happy much more interesting people who don't even know who those folks are.

And that's just in my little corner of the world, I can't even begin to imagine how much supercharged neuroses propels people to the top of DC society.

nice aliendave

We waited for you, Neville, so you could see this: The end. The end of all you done. You see, none of it was real. It was illusion. Your art, your science, it was all a nightmare. And now it's done. Finished. My brethren, our task is nearly complete. He was the last of those who brought the punishment to us. We have cleansed and purged his world. Now we must build.

technicolor-misfit: These people deserve many things; ridicule, mockery, insults. Fear isn't one of them.


Truer words...

Yeah, the idea of the group freaks me out, but it scares me no more than that ridiculous farking Bohemian Grove thing does.

It was a week or two ago that the Daily Show (I believe) played an old quote:

"The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time-it is the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine..." - Richard Nixon

I seldom laugh as friggin' hard as I did when I heard that come out of Nixon's mouth. Yeah, he's a sad little paranoid homophobe himself, but it's still funny.

Guntram Shatterhand, thanks.

Aw man, I thought we were ruled by lizard people.

Prospero424: technicolor-misfit: These people deserve many things; ridicule, mockery, insults. Fear isn't one of them.


Truer words...

Yeah, the idea of the group freaks me out, but it scares me no more than that ridiculous farking Bohemian Grove thing does.

It was a week or two ago that the Daily Show (I believe) played an old quote:

"The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time-it is the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine..." - Richard Nixon

I seldom laugh as friggin' hard as I did when I heard that come out of Nixon's mouth. Yeah, he's a sad little paranoid homophobe himself, but it's still funny.

Eh, Bohemian Grove is a playpen, I don't think anyone except conspiracy nuts take it seriously. This is a cult devoted to free market capitalism in the name of JAYSUS! which includes many high up Republicans and the secretary of state. Normal fundies scare me enough, powerful influential and twisted fundies who promote the idea of a ruling elite and believe power and money mark one as chosen by God. . . That's a recipe for religious fascism if ever I saw one.

Not saying they'll do it, but that anyone powerful combines politics, economics, and religion to this degree is frightening.

Did this guy just list Genghis Khan as a role model?

How insane is your moral compass when you look through history for people to emulate and you come up with Genghis freaking Khan?

ghare: GratuityIncluded: I had no idea liberals were THIS PARANOID!!

/ read the whole thing - who knows if it is true?!? what a complete paranoid bastardization
// wow; kinda freaky even

What makes you think it's only liberals who don't trust these guys?

I should re-phrase. Who the fark is stupid enough to believe this?

EL_FABREZ: Aw man, I thought we were ruled by lizard people.

The shape-shifting alien lizard people run the Family.

ProdigalSigh: Did this guy just list Genghis Khan as a role model?

How insane is your moral compass when you look through history for people to emulate and you come up with Genghis freaking Khan?

He was an excellent ruler, by all accounts. He was just a real dick if you didn't fall in line.

GratuityIncluded: ghare: GratuityIncluded: I had no idea liberals were THIS PARANOID!!

/ read the whole thing - who knows if it is true?!? what a complete paranoid bastardization
// wow; kinda freaky even

What makes you think it's only liberals who don't trust these guys?

I should re-phrase. Who the fark is stupid enough to believe this?

Have you SEEN the modern Republican party?

House of Tards: strathcona: ninjakirby: Very scary group of crazies; politically powerful crazies.

Is Obama one?

They don't let Mohammedans join.

I believe the correct term is "Musselman."

Occam's Chainsaw: He was an excellent ruler, by all accounts. He was just a real dick if you didn't fall in line.

Exactly why people who wish for total power and/or the establishment of "Christ's Kingdom," shouldn't be revering him.

ProdigalSigh: Exactly why people who wish for total power and/or the establishment of "Christ's Kingdom," shouldn't be revering him.

I dunno, I think the love and forgiveness for everybody except those unbelievers WHO GO TO HELL AND DIE A SECOND DEATH is kind of in line with the whole "excellent ruler but dick" thing.

Also yeah rape forgiveness terrifying... Jesus God in heaven what the fark is wrong with these people?

Holy shiz. Thank God that dozens of Democrats have infiltrated this spooky group of "people of faith". I had to scour The Google for many seconds to find (new secret window)

I'm off to fearlessly dig up the dirt on this secretive group known, only to them, as "Kathliks". THEY DRINK BLOOD AND EAT FLESH! We are looking at through glass people here now people now here!

ProdigalSigh: Exactly why people who wish for total power and/or the establishment of "Christ's Kingdom," shouldn't be revering him.

My guess is the only thing he knows about Genghis Khan is "he killed the sh*t out of his enemies", and is completely clueless about the whole strict religious tolerance, hands-off policy with local administration of subject regions, and somewhat progressive (for the time) views of women's role in society parts.

CaesarSneezy: I believe the correct term is "Musselman."



Why do they hate applesauce?

HowDareYouCallMeAHoser: Holy shiz. Thank God that dozens of Democrats have infiltrated this spooky group of "people of faith". I had to scour The Google for many seconds to find (new secret window)

I'm off to fearlessly dig up the dirt on this secretive group known, only to them, as "Kathliks". THEY DRINK BLOOD AND EAT FLESH! We are looking at through glass people here now people now here!

Secretive != secret.

And no one said it was just Republicans. Just mostly.

Do godless liberal heathens fear white helicopters(probably with some gold airbrushed swords, crosses, and menorahs) and wear tofu hats?

Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.

/tets-up