I'm so very sad for my team, but I agree they shouldn't make any trades. Chalk it up to a lost year and start again fresh in 2010. :(

Jmast7: I'm so very sad for my team, but I agree they shouldn't make any trades. Chalk it up to a lost year and start again fresh in 2010. :(

Agreed. As I saw someone (I forget who) say, "The last time we made a panic trade, we ended up with Victor Zambrano."

::shudder::

Thank god for the New York Football Giants

FreakinB: Jmast7: I'm so very sad for my team, but I agree they shouldn't make any trades. Chalk it up to a lost year and start again fresh in 2010. :(

Agreed. As I saw someone (I forget who) say, "The last time we made a panic trade, we ended up with Victor Zambrano."

::shudder::

You really had to remind me?

/you said it would take ten minutes...

In all fairness, once Victor Zambrano decided to start really throwing, he was dominant...

for about an inning and a third before his elbow exploded.

I think it's safe to say there isn't a player in that farm system who comes remotely close to the value of Scott Kazmir in 2004. If another team wants to trade something of value for Fernando Martinez, by all means, let 'em.

Something of value, like say...MIKE HAMPTON?!

Super Chronic: I think it's safe to say there isn't a player in that farm system who comes remotely close to the value of Scott Kazmir in 2004. If another team wants to trade something of value for Fernando Martinez, by all means, let 'em.

If you think that F-Mart isn't worth more than "something of value", you're a little silly.

The guy is 20.

Don't worry Mets fan, Tom Brady will come back and better than ever.

Dafatone: Super Chronic: I think it's safe to say there isn't a player in that farm system who comes remotely close to the value of Scott Kazmir in 2004. If another team wants to trade something of value for Fernando Martinez, by all means, let 'em.

If you think that F-Mart isn't worth more than "something of value", you're a little silly.

The guy is 20.

He's currently playing corner OF and has 30hr and and 19sb in 274 minor league games with a 784 OPS. Hell, he might fetch you Tim Lincecum!

Dafatone: You really had to remind me?

Yeah, I know, sorry. At least they managed to get 1 in Milwaukee. Just hoping to tread water until everyone comes back, whenever that is.

Dawg47: Dafatone: Super Chronic: I think it's safe to say there isn't a player in that farm system who comes remotely close to the value of Scott Kazmir in 2004. If another team wants to trade something of value for Fernando Martinez, by all means, let 'em.

If you think that F-Mart isn't worth more than "something of value", you're a little silly.

The guy is 20.

He's currently playing corner OF and has 30hr and and 19sb in 274 minor league games with a 784 OPS. Hell, he might fetch you Tim Lincecum!

Erm... he's playing center. In the majors. Like, today, and yesterday, and the day before that.

Given that he came up in the minors between the ages of 16 and 20, it's somewhat reasonable that he'd only be good, and not kick ass. A 784 OPS is above average.

Certainly, he might completely bomb, but there's no reason that he isn't a very big prospect right now. He's no Wieters, but he's consistently in the top 20 of prospects, if not better.

Yeah, because the Mets have so much value down on the farm.

Oh, wait, the Mets' top prospects have managed to produce the worst record in AAA baseball, a team that's 17.5 games back.

That's some baseball organization they're running there.

Doc Daneeka: Yeah, because the Mets have so much value down on the farm.

Oh, wait, the Mets' top prospects have managed to produce the worst record in AAA baseball, a team that's 17.5 games back.

That's some baseball organization they're running there.

Our single-A short-season team in the New York-Penn League is 9-2!

Suck it, haters!

/it's our only team with a winning record.

Doc Daneeka: Yeah, because the Mets have so much value down on the farm.

Oh, wait, the Mets' top prospects have managed to produce the worst record in AAA baseball, a team that's 17.5 games back.

That's some baseball organization they're running there.

The record of a minor league team, especially the AAA team (which is usually 90% filled with AAAA fillers and 3rd string MLB players, not the hot shot young and upcoming players) is not indicative of how good a team's prospects are.

That said, the Mets farm does suck.

Doc Daneeka: Oh, wait, the Mets' top prospects have managed to produce the worst record in AAA baseball, a team that's 17.5 games back.

To be fair, that AAA team is missing a lot of players right now, too.

Because they're in the majors.

Dafatone: Super Chronic: I think it's safe to say there isn't a player in that farm system who comes remotely close to the value of Scott Kazmir in 2004. If another team wants to trade something of value for Fernando Martinez, by all means, let 'em.

If you think that F-Mart isn't worth more than "something of value", you're a little silly.

The guy is 20.

Meh, don't mind me, just doing a little low-level trolling. Although I'm not a fan of Martinez, I don't deny that the Mets could parlay him into a pretty good piece right now, were they so inclined.

Mejia and Holt are looking pretty good.. But I'd like to hold on to them for a bit..

Ike Davis is finally starting to turn it on, might be the long term solution at 1st..

Reese Havens started the year off really hot but then cooled significantly, still a while to go with him though..

Keep a core of Wright, Reyes, Santana, K-Rod... Everyone else, including Beltran, try and maximize value for. This team needs some serious reworking..

Trade Reyes for Lester,or Buckholz

Compulsive_Thinker: Trade Reyes for Lester,or Buckholz

No

Hey, Mets fans! Come swing by the Pittsburgh Pirates' Firesale '09!

Hurry, only two good players left!

Jack Wilson is going for a bag of baseballs and a gatorade cooler!

Freddy Sanchez for some Big League Chew and Derek Bell!

We can't do this all day! *whisper* Wait, what? We've been doing this for HOW many years!?

FreakinB: Agreed. As I saw someone (I forget who) say, "The last time we made a panic trade, we ended up with Victor Zambrano."

::shudder::

I'm still amazed that that trade got made. I went to a Devil Rays game about about a week after that trade and saw Kaz throwing a bullpen session during warm-ups. All I could think about was how much of a sucker the Mets GM was for trading anything more than a sack of manure for that Zambrano.

Yeh it's always real promising to stop caring about baseball because the J-E-T-S season is just around the corner...

Was a Mets fan for 40 years.

Moved to Pittsburgh a few years ago, but remained a Mets fan. Became a full Bucs fan when they dumped Littlefield while Mets gagged.

Confident my new team will be in playoffs before my old team.

K1dCuervo: Hey, Mets fans! Come swing by the Pittsburgh Pirates' Firesale '09!

Hurry, only two good players left!

Jack Wilson is going for a bag of baseballs and a gatorade cooler!

Freddy Sanchez for some Big League Chew and Derek Bell!

We can't do this all day! *whisper* Wait, what? We've been doing this for HOW many years!?

If you really believe the Bucs haven't upgraded since Huntington's been in charge, you really don't have a clue about baseball.

studleystudstutterson: I'm still amazed that that trade got made. I went to a Devil Rays game about about a week after that trade and saw Kaz throwing a bullpen session during warm-ups. All I could think about was how much of a sucker the Mets GM was for trading anything more than a sack of manure for that Zambrano.

I honestly believe that's the worst trade in history, and I highly doubt we'll ever see one worse.

At least with most trades, it involves players at different positions. So, if a team trades a really good CF for a mediocre SS, at least in that case they were probably trading from a position of strength for a position of need.

But trading a great young starting pitcher for a bad old starting pitcher? Makes no sense.

studleystudstutterson: FreakinB: Agreed. As I saw someone (I forget who) say, "The last time we made a panic trade, we ended up with Victor Zambrano."

::shudder::

I'm still amazed that that trade got made. I went to a Devil Rays game about about a week after that trade and saw Kaz throwing a bullpen session during warm-ups. All I could think about was how much of a sucker the Mets GM was for trading anything more than a sack of manure for that Zambrano.

The only Brooklyn Cyclones game I've ever been to, Kazmir was the starter. He had been drafted literally a month before out of high school, and he was mowing people down. I think he wound up with 10 K's.

I will never forgive Jim Duquette for that trade.

Doc Daneeka: Oh, wait, the Mets' top prospects have managed to produce the worst record in AAA baseball, a team that's 17.5 games back.

These days AAA is as much a repository for veteran retreads and career minor leaguers as it is a place where prospects develop, if not moreso. AAA team records don't necessarily have a whole lot to do with an organization's strength in prospects.

DeWayne Mann: I honestly believe that's the worst trade in history, and I highly doubt we'll ever see one worse.

Worse than Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb?

VanBurenBoys: Reese Havens started the year off really hot but then cooled significantly, still a while to go with him though..

I think there's one middle infielder in the FSL with a better OPS than him. He's done well since coming back from his injury; he'll be at AA soon enough.

lilbjorn: Worse than Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb?

Yeah. You gotta remember, Lowe had an ERA near 7 and a FIP around 5.5 with the M's that year. I can sort of understand them giving up on him. And while Slocumb was about as bad for the Sox, he was at least coming off 3 or 4 straight good seasons. So it sorta made sense that he might bounce back. And they had Dan Wilson, so they didn't really need a catcher.

Not a great trade, but SOMEWHAT understandable.

But Kazmir was putting up some very nice minor league numbers. And VZam...wasn't putting up good numbers anywhere.

fark you Mets fans. Along with Philly and Yankee fans, you are the worst on the planet.

Eat a mile of dicks.

Signed,

The rest of the MLB fans

lilbjorn: DeWayne Mann: I honestly believe that's the worst trade in history, and I highly doubt we'll ever see one worse.

Worse than Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb?

You have to remember, the trade deadline is full of bad trades dont forget the tigers traded Doyle Alexander for Smoltz to help them in the playoffs. And at the time Slocumb was a feared reliever then lost it after a couple 30 save seasons, closers fade out quickly it seems.

Ball Sack Obama: fark you Mets fans. Along with Philly and Yankee fans, you are the worst on the planet.

Eat a mile of dicks.

Signed,

The rest of the MLB fans

Wow, you are just a pleasure no matter what thread you shiat on

lilbjorn: Worse than Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb?

Well, let's look at the post-trade stats:

Heathcliff Slocumb: 7-15 record, 4.65 ERA, 226.2 IP, 185 K
for
Derek Lowe: 131-109 record, 3.70 ERA, 1988.2 IP, 1291 K + 2/3 more years
Jason Varitek: 1331 games caught, .262 avg, 172 HR, 686 RBI + 2/3 more years

or

Victor Zambrano: 10-17 record, 5.01 ERA, 224.2 IP, 157 K
for
Scott Kazmir: 51-41 record, 3.85 ERA, 773.2 IP, 823 K + 10+ more years

Keeping in mind Kaz's record is skewed by some awful D-rays teams and pitching in the AL East (with a strangely disproportionate number of his starts coming against some strong Red Sox teams), this could be a much closer comparison in ten years' time as to how catastrophically bad of a trade this was.

Ball Sack Obama: fark you Mets fans. Along with Philly and Yankee fans, you are the worst on the planet.

Eat a mile of dicks.

Signed,

The rest of the MLB fans

It was amazing, philly fans actually biatched about the braves celebrating last night after a good win we thought they gave had lost. I heard a few talk about class, class? Really philly fans, the same one who booed santa and were the first to throw batteries at opposing players? Philly fans are the furthest from classy in the world of fans so fark off philthy fans.

Oh its nice to be smacking their ass again tonight, god help the rest of the NL east if the braves can sustain their hitting, a team shouldnt be 2nd or 3rd in team ERA and 20th in hitting if they ever expect to win.

Figures we finally got our pitching fixed and now the team cant hit a damn thing.

Ball sack..if i may

Since you metnioned the ny metro area teams i can assume a few things. 1 percentages say your a fan of a small market team? if so...dont hate because the NY/Philly clubs use the lack of cap to their advantage.

you like the red sox...oh..well then Boston isnt the garden of eden either for away team fans get over yourself.

Oh..you like the cubs...i lol

oh your a fan of a perenial looser....please step aside for teams who actually want their team to win and biatch when it doesnt happen.

please...go...die in a fire and dont talk baseball to angry ny/philly fans youll get told

GoteamVenture: please...go...die in a fire and dont talk baseball to angry ny/philly fans youll get told

No, he wouldnt. NY/Philthy fans are some of the most ignorant fans about baseball ever, yeah they know their team but thats it.

studleystudstutterson: FreakinB: Agreed. As I saw someone (I forget who) say, "The last time we made a panic trade, we ended up with Victor Zambrano."

::shudder::

I'm still amazed that that trade got made. I went to a Devil Rays game about about a week after that trade and saw Kaz throwing a bullpen session during warm-ups. All I could think about was how much of a sucker the Mets GM was for trading anything more than a sack of manure for that Zambrano.

That's why you NEVER EVER EVER have a "temporary" or "interim" GM. Duquette figured he was gone at the end of the year unless he singlehandedly got the Mets into the postseason with a brilliant move.

Hence, that distaster.

It's not the worst trade ever. Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser, and Francisco Liriano for one year of AJ Pierzynski is worse. We'll have to see how Kazmir's career ends up, but Nathan's been better than him for the past few years, if such a comparison can be made.

Dafatone: Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser, and Francisco Liriano for one year of AJ Pierzynski is worse.

Heh. I ALMOST mentioned that trade in my original post.

Kazmir is still worse, as long as we're looking at what we knew when the trade was made. In 2003, the Giants had Benito Santiago at catcher, but that season, he got publicly linked to BALCO. I guess the Giants decided they could only have one roided player on the team, so they let him go as a free agent. So, they needed a catcher, and Pierz was coming off a 115 OPS+ season (compared to Santiago's 96).

At the time, Nathan was the only one of the three pitchers in the majors. 2003 was the first season he had been used exclusively as a reliever, and while it was a good season, we're still talking about a converted starter.

Liriano was 19, and was struggling with injuries (hmmm, sounds familiar). He played in two levels in 2003 for a combined ERA of 8 (in a whole 5 games).

Boof Bonser was 21, and looked like nothing special (and I've got first hand experience of this, because I saw him play in AA Norwich). At Norwich, he put up an ERA of 4.00. What you probably don't know is that Dodd Stadium in Norwich is one of the biggest pitchers parks in the minors, so an ERA of 4 is somewhat embarrassing (though, in fairness, the entire team sucked that year, including the defense and the rest of the pitching staff). He also had 4 AAA starts which went a little better.

So, basically, we're talking about 3 question marks: a converted starter, a young guy with injury problems, and a young guy with mediocre minor league numbers. It could've easily worked out that one (or none) of those guys would've been good. It's really not much different from any trade involving a bunch of prospects for one player, except in this case, all of the prospects worked out. Plus, again, we're talking about different positions: 3 pitchers for a catcher is a lot different than a pitcher for a pitcher.

Besides, there was no reason for the Giants to non-tender AJ at the end of the season. Had they held onto him, that trade would've looked a lot better.

steamingpile: GoteamVenture: please...go...die in a fire and dont talk baseball to angry ny/philly fans youll get told

No, he wouldnt. NY/Philthy fans are some of the most ignorant fans about baseball ever, yeah they know their team but thats it.

Says the man who thinks cc sabathia is a met

Brooklyn Irish Mets Fan: steamingpile: GoteamVenture: please...go...die in a fire and dont talk baseball to angry ny/philly fans youll get told

No, he wouldnt. NY/Philthy fans are some of the most ignorant fans about baseball ever, yeah they know their team but thats it.

Says the man who thinks cc sabathia is a met

That was a drunk rant, I dont remember anything past 8pm that night, so yeah the fact that I could even get the city right is a plus.